On Fri, 8 Jun 2012 01:21:01 -0700 (PDT), sm_jamieson
wrote:



Just fitting a new kitchen. Not fitting a dish washer - wife does not want one, and from my experience you need none or two, since one is invariably full of clean plates, and then you have to quickly remove all these to do the next load.

Or you do what many commercial premises do and have more than one set
of baskets and storage mounts for them . Remove whole basket of
clean crocks and put in cupboard Sometimes you need a place to put the
basket so things dry first depending on type of washer or how it is
used.

G.Harman

Tim Streater was thinking very hard :
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

on 08/06/2012, S Viemeister supposed :
On 6/8/2012 10:47 AM, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Brian Gaff presented the following explanation :
Yes I still don't have a dishwasher.

We have, in the util room, but she never uses it. Sore point, she
suggests she does use it sometimes, but I have never heard her running
it. Brilliant for cleaning engine parts though lol

In the _utility_ room? Whose idea was that???

Er, mine - it was the only spare bit of space and was already plumbed and
wired, she agreed to it being there lol

OK - so where's the washing machine? If that's in the kitchen just swap 'em
over.

Washer/ drier is alongside the dishwasher in the util. The kitchen is a
cooking, dining, general living area so we don't like noisy appliances
in there. Util is just next to kitchen and has its own sink, the
washer, dishwasher, freezer and a bit of extra cupboard space and also
forms a drying area with dehumidifier and fan. Just beyond it (through
the back of it) is large pantry area I created. She lost her pantry in
a redesign 30 years ago and I got that much ear ache due to its loss, I
then converted a disused coal storage room into a pantry accessed
through the back of the util. She tends to stock up as if the third WW
is due to start next week lol

Prior to my converting the coal storage into a new pantry, it was used
as a storage area for garden implements, until a large hut was bought.
I just bricked up its access door and made a new door leading directly
from the util.

The fan combined with dehumidifier work brilliantly by the way, for
drying clothes and much more economical than using the drier.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Tim Streater explained :
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Tim Streater was thinking very hard :
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

on 08/06/2012, S Viemeister supposed :
On 6/8/2012 10:47 AM, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Brian Gaff presented the following explanation :
Yes I still don't have a dishwasher.

We have, in the util room, but she never uses it. Sore point, she
suggests she does use it sometimes, but I have never heard her
running
it. Brilliant for cleaning engine parts though lol

In the _utility_ room? Whose idea was that???

Er, mine - it was the only spare bit of space and was already plumbed
and wired, she agreed to it being there lol

OK - so where's the washing machine? If that's in the kitchen just swap
'em over.

Washer/ drier is alongside the dishwasher in the util. The kitchen is a
cooking, dining, general living area so we don't like noisy appliances in
there.

All these appliances can be run overnight, no need to do it when you're
actually occupying the kitchen area.

True, but she prefers lots of storage to appliances in the kitchen and
as the kitchen is part of the main house noise would still be a problem
during the night. The util + pantry part is a single story original
extension on the rear.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
. uk...
Rod Speed pretended :

"S Viemeister" wrote in message
...
On 6/7/2012 11:22 PM, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
On Fri, 8 Jun 2012 01:29:57 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson
wrote:

On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 15:03:50 -0700, jgharston wrote:
And I've always wondered how valid this "men never went in the
kitchen"
thing was.

The kitchen is for cleaning engine parts... everyone knows that!

It's odd the number of blokes who would happily cook for themselves
and learned to sew, clean, mend kit, etc, in the forces, yet were
utterly handless when it came to doing it home. Some of that, of
course was role-playing, and territory and many women of that
generation resented the hubbie's presence in the kitchen.
Otoh, the number of males nowadays who know how to sew on a button or
mend a tear is vanishingly small. Fs, it's hardly rocket science.

The number of _women_ who know how to sew on a button is vanishingly
small, too.

I find that very hard to believe. They wouldn't be available to buy if
that was true.

You would be a believer if you lived here lol

Nope. Even you must have noticed that loose buttons are available to buy
there.

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
. uk...
Tim Streater was thinking very hard :
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

on 08/06/2012, S Viemeister supposed :
On 6/8/2012 10:47 AM, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Brian Gaff presented the following explanation :
Yes I still don't have a dishwasher.

We have, in the util room, but she never uses it. Sore point, she
suggests she does use it sometimes, but I have never heard her
running
it. Brilliant for cleaning engine parts though lol

In the _utility_ room? Whose idea was that???

Er, mine - it was the only spare bit of space and was already plumbed
and wired, she agreed to it being there lol

OK - so where's the washing machine? If that's in the kitchen just swap
'em over.

Washer/ drier is alongside the dishwasher in the util. The kitchen is a
cooking, dining, general living area so we don't like noisy appliances in
there.

Nothing to stop you turning it on as you go to bed or go out etc.

Util is just next to kitchen and has its own sink, the washer, dishwasher,
freezer and a bit of extra cupboard space and also forms a drying area
with dehumidifier and fan.

But clearly she doesn't use the dishwasher much.

Just beyond it (through the back of it) is large pantry area I created.
She lost her pantry in redesign 30 years ago and I got that much ear ache
due to its loss, I then converted a disused coal storage room into a
pantry accessed through the back of the util. She tends to stock up as if
the third WW is due to start next week lol

Sounds like time to trade her in on a new one.

Prior to my converting the coal storage into a new pantry, it was used as
a storage area for garden implements, until a large hut was bought. I just
bricked up its access door and made a new door leading directly from the
util.

The fan combined with dehumidifier work brilliantly by the way, for drying
clothes and much more economical than using the drier.

Tim Streater wrote
Rod Speed wrote

I only have a ****ing great thick slab of toast for breakfast
with a glass of water, don't bother with coffee anymore.

D'ye put butter and marmalade on all six faces then?

Nope, just one, and choose a toaster that toasts it fine.

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
. uk...
Tim Streater explained :
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Tim Streater was thinking very hard :
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

on 08/06/2012, S Viemeister supposed :
On 6/8/2012 10:47 AM, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Brian Gaff presented the following explanation :
Yes I still don't have a dishwasher.

We have, in the util room, but she never uses it. Sore point, she
suggests she does use it sometimes, but I have never heard her
running
it. Brilliant for cleaning engine parts though lol

In the _utility_ room? Whose idea was that???

Er, mine - it was the only spare bit of space and was already plumbed
and wired, she agreed to it being there lol

OK - so where's the washing machine? If that's in the kitchen just
swap
'em over.

Washer/ drier is alongside the dishwasher in the util. The kitchen is a
cooking, dining, general living area so we don't like noisy appliances
in there.

All these appliances can be run overnight, no need to do it when you're
actually occupying the kitchen area.

True, but she prefers lots of storage to appliances in the kitchen and as
the kitchen is part of the main house noise would still be a problem
during the night.

Nope. With a decent modern dishwasher, the most
you have to do is close the door to the kitchen.

The util + pantry part is a single story original extension on the rear.

But she doesn't use the dishwasher.

In article ,
Andy Wade wrote:
Think it's quite a bit later than that. '60s? But they were good - needed
a large motor to hover so had plenty suck. Not sure the hover idea worked
well, though. Depended too much on the surface it was on.

Definitely 1950s, but it stayed in production well into the 70s.

From http://www.74simon.co.uk/867.html:

Launched in 1954 in the USA and 1956 in the UK, [...] The Constellation
was made even flashier in 1958, when a fixed metal skirt was fitted to
the bottom of the machine, enabling it to literally float on a cushion
of its own exhaust air.

Ah - right. They made an earlier version with the same name which didn't
hover? Hardly memorable then - just a sphere on wheels.

--
*Why don't sheep shrink when it rains?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Rod Speed used his keyboard to write :

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
. uk...
Tim Streater explained :
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Tim Streater was thinking very hard :
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

on 08/06/2012, S Viemeister supposed :
On 6/8/2012 10:47 AM, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Brian Gaff presented the following explanation :
Yes I still don't have a dishwasher.

We have, in the util room, but she never uses it. Sore point, she
suggests she does use it sometimes, but I have never heard her
running
it. Brilliant for cleaning engine parts though lol

In the _utility_ room? Whose idea was that???

Er, mine - it was the only spare bit of space and was already plumbed
and wired, she agreed to it being there lol

OK - so where's the washing machine? If that's in the kitchen just swap
'em over.

Washer/ drier is alongside the dishwasher in the util. The kitchen is a
cooking, dining, general living area so we don't like noisy appliances in
there.

All these appliances can be run overnight, no need to do it when you're
actually occupying the kitchen area.

True, but she prefers lots of storage to appliances in the kitchen and as
the kitchen is part of the main house noise would still be a problem during
the night.

Nope. With a decent modern dishwasher, the most
you have to do is close the door to the kitchen.

The util + pantry part is a single story original extension on the rear.

But she doesn't use the dishwasher.

No, but no matter where it was located, she would not have used it on
principle lol

As soon as a plate or cup is dirty, she has to wash it. I gave up long
ago trying to explain the economies of scale.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Rod Speed wrote on 09/06/2012 :
Just beyond it (through the back of it) is large pantry area I created. She
lost her pantry in redesign 30 years ago and I got that much ear ache due
to its loss, I then converted a disused coal storage room into a pantry
accessed through the back of the util. She tends to stock up as if the
third WW is due to start next week lol

Sounds like time to trade her in on a new one.

Is the correct answer :-)

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield writes:

True, but she prefers lots of storage to appliances in the kitchen and
as the kitchen is part of the main house noise would still be a problem
during the night. The util + pantry part is a single story original
extension on the rear.

Modern built-in dishwashers - I have to press my ear to the
cupboard door to hear if the thing is still running or not.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 6/9/2012 12:00 AM, charles wrote:
In ,
Rod wrote:
"S wrote
On 6/7/2012 11:22 PM, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

Otoh, the number of males nowadays who know how to sew on a button or
mend a tear is vanishingly small. Fs, it's hardly rocket science.

The number of _women_ who know how to sew on a button is vanishingly
small, too.

I find that very hard to believe. They wouldn't be available to buy if
that was true.

I sew my own buttons. If I couldn't, it's a service our local dry cleaners
offer.

Many years ago, my family owned and ran a couple of needlework/yarn
shops. It was amazing just how many women had absolutely no idea how to
sew on buttons properly. We had to add that to our list of services offered.

On Sat, 09 Jun 2012 09:40:40 +0100, wrote:

The Hoover Keymatic? We had one, which was a great education in how
automation could be implemented. It worked well for ages,

Only used one a couple of times,it was semi abandoned in the shed of a
house some mates and I rented in our late teens. We used it to mix
some cement which it made a reasonable job of ,wasn't much good for
washing clothes afterwards.

Now, that's a stroke of genius. I have a buggered old Hotpoint which
works fine, just doesn't spin - mind you, it would be a one-time use.

Rod Speed presented the following explanation :

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
. uk...
Rod Speed pretended :

"S Viemeister" wrote in message
...
On 6/7/2012 11:22 PM, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
On Fri, 8 Jun 2012 01:29:57 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson
wrote:

On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 15:03:50 -0700, jgharston wrote:
And I've always wondered how valid this "men never went in the
kitchen"
thing was.

The kitchen is for cleaning engine parts... everyone knows that!

It's odd the number of blokes who would happily cook for themselves
and learned to sew, clean, mend kit, etc, in the forces, yet were
utterly handless when it came to doing it home. Some of that, of
course was role-playing, and territory and many women of that
generation resented the hubbie's presence in the kitchen.
Otoh, the number of males nowadays who know how to sew on a button or
mend a tear is vanishingly small. Fs, it's hardly rocket science.

The number of _women_ who know how to sew on a button is vanishingly
small, too.

I find that very hard to believe. They wouldn't be available to buy if
that was true.

You would be a believer if you lived here lol

Nope. Even you must have noticed that loose buttons are available to buy
there.

Neither my mother, nor SWMBO could/can sew a button on which would
remain in place. If any need to be sewn on here, I find it easier to do
them myself. It is a mechanical task involving being able to accurately
determine the structural load, likely shock load imposed upon the
button and fix appropriately lol

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

In article ,
S Viemeister writes:
On 6/7/2012 11:22 PM, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
It's odd the number of blokes who would happily cook for themselves
and learned to sew, clean, mend kit, etc, in the forces, yet were
utterly handless when it came to doing it home. Some of that, of
course was role-playing, and territory and many women of that
generation resented the hubbie's presence in the kitchen.
Otoh, the number of males nowadays who know how to sew on a button or
mend a tear is vanishingly small. Fs, it's hardly rocket science.

The number of _women_ who know how to sew on a button is vanishingly
small, too.

I just spent 2 hours sewing a new pocket into my suit trousers.
Very pleased with the result, and it's _much_ better than the one
I had done by the dry cleaners a few years ago, which took me
longer to repair afterwards than it's just taken me to do the
whole thing myself.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andy Wade wrote:
Think it's quite a bit later than that. '60s? But they were good -
needed
a large motor to hover so had plenty suck. Not sure the hover idea
worked
well, though. Depended too much on the surface it was on.

Definitely 1950s, but it stayed in production well into the 70s.

From http://www.74simon.co.uk/867.html:

Launched in 1954 in the USA and 1956 in the UK, [...] The Constellation
was made even flashier in 1958, when a fixed metal skirt was fitted to
the bottom of the machine, enabling it to literally float on a cushion
of its own exhaust air.

Ah - right. They made an earlier version with the same name which didn't
hover? Hardly memorable then - just a sphere on wheels.

Yeah, I've got one. Not clear when it was made.

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
. uk...
Rod Speed used his keyboard to write :

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
. uk...
Tim Streater explained :
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Tim Streater was thinking very hard :
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

on 08/06/2012, S Viemeister supposed :
On 6/8/2012 10:47 AM, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Brian Gaff presented the following explanation :
Yes I still don't have a dishwasher.

We have, in the util room, but she never uses it. Sore point,
she
suggests she does use it sometimes, but I have never heard her
running
it. Brilliant for cleaning engine parts though lol

In the _utility_ room? Whose idea was that???

Er, mine - it was the only spare bit of space and was already
plumbed
and wired, she agreed to it being there lol

OK - so where's the washing machine? If that's in the kitchen just
swap
'em over.

Washer/ drier is alongside the dishwasher in the util. The kitchen is
a cooking, dining, general living area so we don't like noisy
appliances in there.

All these appliances can be run overnight, no need to do it when you're
actually occupying the kitchen area.

True, but she prefers lots of storage to appliances in the kitchen and
as the kitchen is part of the main house noise would still be a problem
during the night.

Nope. With a decent modern dishwasher, the most
you have to do is close the door to the kitchen.

The util + pantry part is a single story original extension on the rear.

But she doesn't use the dishwasher.

No, but no matter where it was located, she would not have used it on
principle lol

As soon as a plate or cup is dirty, she has to wash it. I gave up long ago
trying to explain the economies of scale.

Like everyone said, time for a tradein.

Tim Streater wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Tim Streater wrote
Rod Speed wrote

I only have a ****ing great thick slab of toast for breakfast
with a glass of water, don't bother with coffee anymore.

D'ye put butter and marmalade on all six faces then?

Nope, just one, and choose a toaster that toasts it fine.

I see,

Obvious lie. You're clearly wanked yourself completely blind, boy.

reams of your puerile silly **** flushed where it belongs

S Viemeister wrote
charles wrote
Rod wrote
S wrote
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote

Otoh, the number of males nowadays who know how to sew on a button or
mend a tear is vanishingly small. Fs, it's hardly rocket science.

The number of _women_ who know how to sew on a button is vanishingly
small, too.

I find that very hard to believe. They wouldn't be available to buy if
that was true.

I sew my own buttons. If I couldn't, it's a service our local dry
cleaners offer.

Many years ago, my family owned and ran a couple of needlework/yarn shops.
It was amazing just how many women had absolutely no idea how to sew on
buttons properly. We had to add that to our list of services offered.

They'd have to be pretty stupid to not be able to watch a
youtube video and learn how to do something that basic.

Presumably the cost of getting someone else to
do it is so low most of the klutzes don't bother.

On Sat, 9 Jun 2012 17:01:04 +0000 (UTC),
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

I just spent 2 hours sewing a new pocket into my suit trousers.
Very pleased with the result, and it's _much_ better than the one
I had done by the dry cleaners a few years ago, which took me
longer to repair afterwards than it's just taken me to do the
whole thing myself.

It's strangely satisfying, repairing something and what's even better
is adding extra pockets to hold lenses, photo kit and other bits and
bobs.

On 09/06/2012 12:53, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
"Rod Speed" wrote:

Tim Streater wrote Rod Speed
wrote

I only have a ****ing great thick slab of toast for breakfast
with a glass of water, don't bother with coffee anymore.

D'ye put butter and marmalade on all six faces then?

Nope, just one, and choose a toaster that toasts it fine.

I see, so you then bite it all over so it becomes uniformly thinner and
you have butter/marmalade all over your face, and then repeat the process?

Probably dips it in his egg, might explain all the egg on his face...

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sat, 09 Jun 2012 08:37:14 -0400 S Viemeister wrote :
Many years ago, my family owned and ran a couple of needlework/yarn
shops. It was amazing just how many women had absolutely no idea how to
sew on buttons properly. We had to add that to our list of services offered.

Round here (Melbourne Docklands) thousands of people work in bank head
offices. We now have three (at least) shops offering mens tailoring services -
pockets, trouser shortening, buttons, zips etc.

--
Tony Bryer, Greentram: 'Software to build on',
Melbourne, Australia www.greentram.com

On Sun, 10 Jun 2012 01:16:59 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:

On Sat, 9 Jun 2012 17:01:04 +0000 (UTC),
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

I just spent 2 hours sewing a new pocket into my suit trousers.
Very pleased with the result, and it's _much_ better than the one
I had done by the dry cleaners a few years ago, which took me
longer to repair afterwards than it's just taken me to do the
whole thing myself.

It's strangely satisfying, repairing something and what's even better
is adding extra pockets to hold lenses, photo kit and other bits and
bobs.

I do my own clothes repairs but also I have added the occasional
inside pocket to pairs of trousers. I work on the basis that if I
can't reach into my pocket with my own hands then neither can anyone
else with theirs. A fairly essential strategy in some parts of the
world[1] unfortunately.

Nick
[1]Although there have only been two occasions when I have been
successfully pickpocketed, one of those was in a bustling market in
Cochabamba, Bolivia and the other was in the checkout queue in Tesco,
Huddersfield. So maybe I ought to wear those trousers in the UK too.

In message , ARWadsworth
writes
harry wrote:
On Jun 8, 9:55 am, Tim Watts wrote:
John Williamson wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
jgharston wrote:
And I've always wondered how valid this "men never went
in the kitchen" thing was. Most of my ancestors on my
mother's side were fishermen, and if you couldn't cook
you starved.

My father - born around 1900 - washed and dried the lunchtime
dishes every single day. He also gave his unopened pay packet
to mother every Friday.

My mother never went out to work, but looked after the home and
kids. But had full control over the family income and outgoings
- father simply got some pocket money.

I think they balanced out running the home pretty well between
them - mother certainly never complained. Of course these days
when so often both parents go to work (or both not) it's a
different matter.

In the 60s Dad's salary, which was roughly the national average
income, paid the mortgage on a nice semi in a pleasant area with
a reasonably comfortable lifestyle for us (2 cars, washing
machine and a TV.). Just the mortgage payments on that house now
would be a bit more than the national average income, assuming
the same percentage deposit.

Ditto - engineering civil service salary (not exactly massive) paid
for a 3 bed semi with a 100' garden in a nice small town plus car.

If you compare house price inflation from the 60's to present, it
far outstrips the inflation on everything else.

--
Tim Watts- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Immigration. They gotta be living somewhere.

Usually in the country they moved to.

And you can blame both Tim and myself for introducing two legal immigrants
to the UK (that's one each not two each).

Three here


--
geoff

geoff wrote:
In message , ARWadsworth
writes
harry wrote:
On Jun 8, 9:55 am, Tim Watts wrote:
John Williamson wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
jgharston wrote:
And I've always wondered how valid this "men never went
in the kitchen" thing was. Most of my ancestors on my
mother's side were fishermen, and if you couldn't cook
you starved.

My father - born around 1900 - washed and dried the
lunchtime dishes every single day. He also gave his
unopened pay packet to mother every Friday.

My mother never went out to work, but looked after the home
and kids. But had full control over the family income and
outgoings - father simply got some pocket money.

I think they balanced out running the home pretty well
between them - mother certainly never complained. Of course
these days when so often both parents go to work (or both
not) it's a different matter.

In the 60s Dad's salary, which was roughly the national
average income, paid the mortgage on a nice semi in a
pleasant area with a reasonably comfortable lifestyle for us
(2 cars, washing machine and a TV.). Just the mortgage
payments on that house now would be a bit more than the
national average income, assuming the same percentage deposit.

Ditto - engineering civil service salary (not exactly massive)
paid for a 3 bed semi with a 100' garden in a nice small town
plus car. If you compare house price inflation from the 60's to
present,
it far outstrips the inflation on everything else.

--
Tim Watts- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Immigration. They gotta be living somewhere.

Usually in the country they moved to.

And you can blame both Tim and myself for introducing two legal
immigrants to the UK (that's one each not two each).

Three here

I DO hope that none of them are from a certain religious group that harry
would take offence to.


--
Adam

In message , ARWadsworth
writes
geoff wrote:
In message , ARWadsworth
writes
harry wrote:
On Jun 8, 9:55 am, Tim Watts wrote:
John Williamson wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article

,
jgharston wrote:
And I've always wondered how valid this "men never went
in the kitchen" thing was. Most of my ancestors on my
mother's side were fishermen, and if you couldn't cook
you starved.

My father - born around 1900 - washed and dried the
lunchtime dishes every single day. He also gave his
unopened pay packet to mother every Friday.

My mother never went out to work, but looked after the home
and kids. But had full control over the family income and
outgoings - father simply got some pocket money.

I think they balanced out running the home pretty well
between them - mother certainly never complained. Of course
these days when so often both parents go to work (or both
not) it's a different matter.

In the 60s Dad's salary, which was roughly the national
average income, paid the mortgage on a nice semi in a
pleasant area with a reasonably comfortable lifestyle for us
(2 cars, washing machine and a TV.). Just the mortgage
payments on that house now would be a bit more than the
national average income, assuming the same percentage deposit.

Ditto - engineering civil service salary (not exactly massive)
paid for a 3 bed semi with a 100' garden in a nice small town
plus car. If you compare house price inflation from the 60's to
present,
it far outstrips the inflation on everything else.

--
Tim Watts- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Immigration. They gotta be living somewhere.

Usually in the country they moved to.

And you can blame both Tim and myself for introducing two legal
immigrants to the UK (that's one each not two each).

Three here

I DO hope that none of them are from a certain religious group that harry
would take offence to.


We've already passed his details on to the Mullahs



--
geoff

On Jun 8, 1:25*am, John Williamson
wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
* *jgharston wrote:
And I've always wondered how valid this "men never went
in the kitchen" thing was. Most of my ancestors on my
mother's side were fishermen, and if you couldn't cook
you starved.

My father - born around 1900 - washed and dried the lunchtime dishes every
single day. He also gave his unopened pay packet to mother every Friday..

My mother never went out to work, but looked after the home and kids. But
had full control over the family income and outgoings - father simply got
some pocket money.

I think they balanced out running the home pretty well between them -
mother certainly never complained. Of course these days when so often both
parents go to work (or both not) it's a different matter.

In the 60s Dad's salary, which was roughly the national average income,
paid the mortgage on a nice semi in a pleasant area with a reasonably
comfortable lifestyle for us (2 cars, washing machine and a TV.). Just
the mortgage payments on that house now would be a bit more than the
national average income, assuming the same percentage deposit.

Nowadays, in most areas, two incomes are needed just to keep up with the
bills, especially if there are children. I noticed a two bedroom flat in
Oxford being advertised at the weekend at a rent of about £15,000 per
year. £300(ish) per week sounds *so* much less...

Over the last few decades, wages haven't kept up with property prices.

Investing in building projects is always the first to go when the
economy hits a downturn. Your cash is seriously drained for a 1 or 2
year period depending how quickly you can sell the finished product.

In the meantime you would have been earning interest on the capital on
some other investment.

It was an eye opener to me when the work dried up no that long after
they started importing east Europeans at 2/3 the going rate and about
6 months before the actual crashes happened like dominoes.

On Jun 11, 5:33*am, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Jun 8, 1:25*am, John Williamson
wrote:

..

Investing in building projects is always the first to go when the
economy hits a downturn. Your cash is seriously drained for a 1 or 2
year period depending how quickly you can sell the finished product.

In the meantime you would have been earning interest on the capital on
some other investment.

It was an eye opener to me when the work dried up no that long after
they started importing east Europeans at 2/3 the going rate and about
6 months before the actual crashes happened like dominoes.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

True for a commercial builder.
However if you have any money, now might be the time to invest it in
value enhancing options on your own house. (A bit of DIY!)
Unless you cn think of some other investment.

I have a bad feeling about inflation over the next few years.
I think we are all going to hell on a handcart.

harry wrote
Weatherlawyer wrote
John Williamson wrote

Investing in building projects is always the first to go when the
economy hits a downturn. Your cash is seriously drained for a 1 or 2
year period depending how quickly you can sell the finished product.

In the meantime you would have been earning interest
on the capital on some other investment.

It was an eye opener to me when the work dried up no that long after
they started importing east Europeans at 2/3 the going rate and about
6 months before the actual crashes happened like dominoes.

True for a commercial builder.
However if you have any money, now might be the time
to invest it in value enhancing options on your own house.
(A bit of DIY!) Unless you cn think of some other investment.

I have a bad feeling about inflation over the next few years.
I think we are all going to hell on a handcart.

Bet that doesn't happen with inflation, essentially because
of the severe recession western europe will see.

You lot might well end up in very deep **** indeed as the
eurozone implodes completely, but that wont be with inflation.

On Saturday, June 9, 2012 4:19:42 AM UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
sm_jamieson wrote
Rod Speed wrote
sm_jamieson wrote
Brian Gaff wrote

Yes I still don't have a dishwasher.

Just fitting a new kitchen. Not fitting a dish washer

Mad.

- wife does not want one,

Time for a new one of those.

If she's happy to do the washing up, why would I mind ?

You didn't make it clear that she is happy to do all the washing up.

and from my experience you need none or two,

Nope.

since one is invariably full of clean plates, and then you
have to quickly remove all these to do the next load.

I just replace the clean ones with dirty ones as they
are used and run it when there are no clean ones left.

Do you like your "clean" plates to smell slightly of garlic etc ?

Doesn't happen, and I do use garlic.

Do you not get splashes on the remaining clean ones in there ?

Nope. I don't bother to rinse the stuff that goes into
the dishwasher dirty. I use a detergent that gets them
complete clean without needing to rinse them.

The most I do is scrape off stuff like chop bones into
the bin and any other uneaten food on the plate.

I suppose you can leave a bit of space between the clean and dirty sets.

I don't bother but can do that if I did get that effect.

Do you not have to run a pre-rinse to stop the food remains
getting stuck on if it's a while until all the clean ones are gone ?

Nope, and I do wait quite a while too. I run the dishwasher
every 9 days, basically that's when the 9 beer glasses are dirty.

Occasionally I do run the dishwasher more frequently, particularly
when I have just done another batch of marmalade or relish and
so there is a lot more to go in the dishwasher than usual.

I only have one meal a day that produces dirty dishes.

I only have a ****ing great thick slab of toast for breakfast
with a glass of water, don't bother with coffee anymore.

Don't bother with lunch, just have an apple and a banana
most of the year, 3 or so nectarines in the nectarine season.

In which case the "clean" ones get pre-rinsed
several times and may get dirtier as a result ?

Nope, don't rise the dirty dishes in the sink
or use the dishwasher pre rinse cycle at all.

I don't even bother to rinse the cast iron plate type things
that I put under the grill to grill steaks and chops on, they
just go straight in the dishwasher filthy with fat.

I can imagine answers to all these, but the
method must still be examined in great detail.

Examine away.

With such a small amount of dirty plates etc, you definitely don't need a dishwasher !
Actually, I may be losing the argument. My sister who did not want a dishwasher either has now sold out, and says her new device has "changed here life". Oh dear ;-)
Simon.

"sm_jamieson" wrote in message
...

With such a small amount of dirty plates etc, you definitely don't need a
dishwasher !
Actually, I may be losing the argument. My sister who did not want a
dishwasher either has now sold out, and says her new device has "changed
here life". Oh dear ;-)
Simon.

Unless you have a dishwasher you just can't understand their effect.
I wouldn't go back to being without one.
You can take your washing to a laundrette so the washer would go first.

On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 10:27:00 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

Unless you have a dishwasher you just can't understand their effect.
I wouldn't go back to being without one.

I'd quite like one. SWMBO'd had a small one but as she isn't very
good at putting things away didn't get on with it.

You can take your washing to a laundrette so the washer would go first.

No way! Not sure where the nearest laundrette is yell.com thought
so Penrith, 20 odd miles away...

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article ,
dennis@home wrote:


"sm_jamieson" wrote in message
...

With such a small amount of dirty plates etc, you definitely don't
need a dishwasher ! Actually, I may be losing the argument. My sister
who did not want a dishwasher either has now sold out, and says her
new device has "changed here life". Oh dear ;-) Simon.

Unless you have a dishwasher you just can't understand their effect. I
wouldn't go back to being without one. You can take your washing to a
laundrette so the washer would go first.

Are you or were you ever in charge of doing both? I am, since I'm single,
and having to use a launderette would be a dreadful time waster and chore.
Doing the washing up on the other hand takes up little time.

--
*Just give me chocolate and nobody gets hurt

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:

Are you or were you ever in charge of doing both? I am, since I'm single,
and having to use a launderette would be a dreadful time waster and chore.
Doing the washing up on the other hand takes up little time.

As a student and for a short time after I started working, I used
a launderette. Would start up the machine, walk next door and buy
Private Eye, and I'd just about finished reading it when the
washing was done.

Then I got a second-hand Hoover washing machine which my parents
were chucking out, repaired the drum leaks (Isopon), and used it
for a couple of years until the leak through the bearing became
too much. By then, I was in my first home, and bought a new top
spec Hotpoint through GEC staff sales, and it lasted 25 years.

Dishwasher didn't come until much later - actually the thing
that drove me to getting a dishwasher was getting Usenet access
at home (through my employer - not sure there were any ISPs
at that point). I no longer had time to wash the dishes myself.
That was another purchase through GEC staff sales (Creda),
although a rather lower spec small model. It's 22 years old and
still working, although now with someone else in the family.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:


"sm_jamieson" wrote in message
...

With such a small amount of dirty plates etc, you definitely don't
need a dishwasher ! Actually, I may be losing the argument. My
sister who did not want a dishwasher either has now sold out, and
says her new device has "changed here life". Oh dear ;-) Simon.

Unless you have a dishwasher you just can't understand their
effect. I wouldn't go back to being without one. You can take your
washing to a laundrette so the washer would go first.

Are you or were you ever in charge of doing both? I am, since I'm
single, and having to use a launderette would be a dreadful time
waster and chore. Doing the washing up on the other hand takes up
little time.

I also live on my own. I just bought loads more glasses and plates etc to
make sure the dishwasher if full when I use it. Probably twice a week as the
gf stops twice a week and friends also call in and have a few beers etc

However if I had to choose betwen a dishwasher or a washing machine then the
washing machine would win. But then again work is good ATM so I might go
back to paying for my washing doing for me.



--
Adam

In article 28573cf2-6362-48b7-ab14-0f98f2eda0b3
@z19g2000vbe.googlegroups.com, says...

On Jun 11, 6:51*am, harry wrote:
I think we are all going to hell on a handcart.

I think we are all going to hell in an Olympic Javelin train.


You're not allowed to say that! The Branding Police have decreed it!

http://www.london2012.com/documents/...-to-protected-
games-marks.pdf

or

http://tinyurl.com/7gjrcsv

So, that's two offences in one sentence!

It must be great fun for the railway company if they are banned from
using the name of their high speed service ...


Which we shall be expected to pay for once we get there.


In London, we've already been paying for it, even if, like me, we don't
want to be anywhere near it, via an extra charge on top of the council
tax - AND we've got to put up with mayhem when this circus hits town!

--

Terry

sm_jamieson wrote
Rod Speed wrote
sm_jamieson wrote
Rod Speed wrote
sm_jamieson wrote
Brian Gaff wrote

Yes I still don't have a dishwasher.

Just fitting a new kitchen. Not fitting a dish washer

Mad.

- wife does not want one,

Time for a new one of those.

If she's happy to do the washing up, why would I mind ?

You didn't make it clear that she is happy to do all the washing up.

and from my experience you need none or two,

Nope.

since one is invariably full of clean plates, and then you
have to quickly remove all these to do the next load.

I just replace the clean ones with dirty ones as they
are used and run it when there are no clean ones left.

Do you like your "clean" plates to smell slightly of garlic etc ?

Doesn't happen, and I do use garlic.

Do you not get splashes on the remaining clean ones in there ?

Nope. I don't bother to rinse the stuff that goes into
the dishwasher dirty. I use a detergent that gets them
complete clean without needing to rinse them.

The most I do is scrape off stuff like chop bones into
the bin and any other uneaten food on the plate.

I suppose you can leave a bit of space between the clean and dirty sets.

I don't bother but can do that if I did get that effect.

Do you not have to run a pre-rinse to stop the food remains
getting stuck on if it's a while until all the clean ones are gone ?

Nope, and I do wait quite a while too. I run the dishwasher
every 9 days, basically that's when the 9 beer glasses are dirty.

Occasionally I do run the dishwasher more frequently, particularly
when I have just done another batch of marmalade or relish and
so there is a lot more to go in the dishwasher than usual.

I only have one meal a day that produces dirty dishes.

I only have a ****ing great thick slab of toast for breakfast
with a glass of water, don't bother with coffee anymore.

Don't bother with lunch, just have an apple and a banana
most of the year, 3 or so nectarines in the nectarine season.

In which case the "clean" ones get pre-rinsed
several times and may get dirtier as a result ?

Nope, don't rise the dirty dishes in the sink
or use the dishwasher pre rinse cycle at all.

I don't even bother to rinse the cast iron plate type things
that I put under the grill to grill steaks and chops on, they
just go straight in the dishwasher filthy with fat.

I can imagine answers to all these, but the
method must still be examined in great detail.

Examine away.

With such a small amount of dirty plates etc, you definitely don't need a
dishwasher !

Wrong. Its MUCH more convenient to just put the dirty
plates and glasses in the dishwasher after the meal and take
the clean ones out of the dishwasher as required than to fart
around washing them by hand every day or even every 9 days.

Even the dishwasher cost peanuts, its lasted 40 years fine.

Actually, I may be losing the argument. My sister who
did not want a dishwasher either has now sold out, and
says her new device has "changed here life". Oh dear ;-)

Getting a dishwasher certainly changed mine.

And I never did wash the clothes by hand and havent
met many at all stupid enough to do that either.

In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
Wrong. Its MUCH more convenient to just put the dirty
plates and glasses in the dishwasher after the meal and take
the clean ones out of the dishwasher as required than to fart
around washing them by hand every day or even every 9 days.

Storing dirty dishes alongside clean ones for any length of time doesn't
sound like a good idea to me.

It takes as much time to put clean dishes back in their 'place' as it does
to wash them.

--
*When blondes have more fun, do they know it?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
Wrong. Its MUCH more convenient to just put the dirty
plates and glasses in the dishwasher after the meal and take
the clean ones out of the dishwasher as required than to fart
around washing them by hand every day or even every 9 days.

Storing dirty dishes alongside clean ones for any length of time doesn't
sound like a good idea to me.

It takes as much time to put clean dishes back in their 'place' as it does
to wash them.


Simple, just have two dishwashers. ;-). That way you never need to put
stuff away. If you don't have space for two get a "twin drawer" one.

Tim

On 12/06/2012 09:50, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Rod wrote:
Wrong. Its MUCH more convenient to just put the dirty
plates and glasses in the dishwasher after the meal and take
the clean ones out of the dishwasher as required than to fart
around washing them by hand every day or even every 9 days.

Storing dirty dishes alongside clean ones for any length of time doesn't
sound like a good idea to me.


Quite. Sounds revolting.

It takes as much time to put clean dishes back in their 'place' as it does
to wash them.


I've become a dishwasher convert after (more or less) being instructed
in install one. I like to keep surfaces clear, and spend a fair amount
of time at home. So this could involve a few rounds of washing up each day.

Also, I'd guess my use of a dishwasher is more economical than regularly
washing up. The eco case would be quite feeble though.

Rob