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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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Flare brake lines?
A 3/16" (0.191") brake line on my Honda rusted through from the
outside and the dealer wants $1200 to take the front and rear apart enough to thread a one-piece new one in. What should I watch for when I splice in a repair section with double-lap flare fittings? Advice on the Net is contradictory and not too helpful. TIA -JSW |
#2
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Flare brake lines?
On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 12:40:30 -0400, Jim Wilkins wrote:
A 3/16" (0.191") brake line on my Honda rusted through from the outside and the dealer wants $1200 to take the front and rear apart enough to thread a one-piece new one in. What should I watch for when I splice in a repair section with double-lap flare fittings? Advice on the Net is contradictory and not too helpful. TIA -JSW I wouldn't splice into the existing brake line, on the general principle that if it broke once, it'll break again. If you can replace the whole thing in sections, with all new pieces, yourself, without major disassembly, then that's to be contemplated. brakes = safety item safety item = don't mess around -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com |
#3
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Flare brake lines?
On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 12:40:30 -0400, Jim Wilkins wrote: A 3/16" (0.191") brake line on my Honda rusted through from the outside and the dealer wants $1200 to take the front and rear apart enough to thread a one-piece new one in. What should I watch for when I splice in a repair section with double-lap flare fittings? Advice on the Net is contradictory and not too helpful. HAH! This IS the "net". Do you (necessarily) expect any better advice here than you'd get elsewhere on the net? (This is not to criticize anyone's advice... only to point out that this is just as unreliable a resource as anything else you might pick up on "the net") HAH! LLoyd |
#4
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Flare brake lines?
On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 15:17:01 -0500, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 12:40:30 -0400, Jim Wilkins wrote: A 3/16" (0.191") brake line on my Honda rusted through from the outside and the dealer wants $1200 to take the front and rear apart enough to thread a one-piece new one in. What should I watch for when I splice in a repair section with double-lap flare fittings? Advice on the Net is contradictory and not too helpful. HAH! This IS the "net". Do you (necessarily) expect any better advice here than you'd get elsewhere on the net? (This is not to criticize anyone's advice... only to point out that this is just as unreliable a resource as anything else you might pick up on "the net") Unless you've been watching the group, and you have a notion of who's full of BS and who isn't. Strangely, must of the folks who answer questions here give pretty good advise, IMHO. When I ask for advice on the net I generally pay attention to all of it, but only follow the bits that make sense after I think about them a bit. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com |
#5
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Flare brake lines?
On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 15:21:16 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote: On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 15:17:01 -0500, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote: On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 12:40:30 -0400, Jim Wilkins wrote: A 3/16" (0.191") brake line on my Honda rusted through from the outside and the dealer wants $1200 to take the front and rear apart enough to thread a one-piece new one in. What should I watch for when I splice in a repair section with double-lap flare fittings? Advice on the Net is contradictory and not too helpful. HAH! This IS the "net". Do you (necessarily) expect any better advice here than you'd get elsewhere on the net? (This is not to criticize anyone's advice... only to point out that this is just as unreliable a resource as anything else you might pick up on "the net") Unless you've been watching the group, and you have a notion of who's full of BS and who isn't. Strangely, must of the folks who answer questions here give pretty good advise, IMHO. When I ask for advice on the net I generally pay attention to all of it, but only follow the bits that make sense after I think about them a bit. Here's the best, which I think you posted: Don't screw with brake lines. Do not splice brake lines. Do not jury-rig brake lines. If you had an accident and they found out you'd done something like that, I doubt if the insurance company would pay. -- Ed Huntress |
#6
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Flare brake lines?
On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 12:40:30 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote: A 3/16" (0.191") brake line on my Honda rusted through from the outside and the dealer wants $1200 to take the front and rear apart enough to thread a one-piece new one in. What should I watch for when I splice in a repair section with double-lap flare fittings? Advice on the Net is contradictory and not too helpful. TIA -JSW Buy several shorter pre-made lengths and double flare unions to join them. Work from both ends to the middle, and then you only need to cut and reflare, at most, one end of one piece. If it only rusted under one clip, you may get lucky and be able to cut the line in a solid location, install a flare nut and flare the end of the existing tube , then connect a replacement line from there to the end. |
#7
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Flare brake lines?
On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 15:05:22 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote: On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 12:40:30 -0400, Jim Wilkins wrote: A 3/16" (0.191") brake line on my Honda rusted through from the outside and the dealer wants $1200 to take the front and rear apart enough to thread a one-piece new one in. What should I watch for when I splice in a repair section with double-lap flare fittings? Advice on the Net is contradictory and not too helpful. TIA -JSW I wouldn't splice into the existing brake line, on the general principle that if it broke once, it'll break again. If you can replace the whole thing in sections, with all new pieces, yourself, without major disassembly, then that's to be contemplated. brakes = safety item safety item = don't mess around On Hondas and Toyotas it is not uncommon to see a perfectly solid line rot out under a retaining clip (holds line to body) and the rest of the line is perfect.. In this case, installing a short section can be effective and perfectly acceptable. Just make sure the line IS solid, and make sure you do a good jog ov double flaring the line, and supporting the repaired section when you are done. Generally a good idea to replace the entire run that is clipped to the floor - but you can sometimes avoid having to do the twisties on the firewall and around the rear suspension - or at least the twisties up on the firewall/inner fender behind the engine. |
#8
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Flare brake lines?
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
... On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 15:21:16 -0500, Tim Wescott wrote: On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 15:17:01 -0500, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote: On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 12:40:30 -0400, Jim Wilkins wrote: A 3/16" (0.191") brake line on my Honda rusted through from the outside and the dealer wants $1200 to take the front and rear apart enough to thread a one-piece new one in. What should I watch for when I splice in a repair section with double-lap flare fittings? Advice on the Net is contradictory and not too helpful. HAH! This IS the "net". Do you (necessarily) expect any better advice here than you'd get elsewhere on the net? (This is not to criticize anyone's advice... only to point out that this is just as unreliable a resource as anything else you might pick up on "the net") Unless you've been watching the group, and you have a notion of who's full of BS and who isn't. Strangely, must of the folks who answer questions here give pretty good advise, IMHO. When I ask for advice on the net I generally pay attention to all of it, but only follow the bits that make sense after I think about them a bit. Here's the best, which I think you posted: Don't screw with brake lines. Do not splice brake lines. Do not jury-rig brake lines. If you had an accident and they found out you'd done something like that, I doubt if the insurance company would pay. -- Ed Huntress Is standard hardware made for the purpose considered jury-rigging? Today I got a quote of $500 to replace both rear lines with copper-nickel which is flexible enough to thread through the tight gaps where the factory lines go. Does anyone have experience with it? http://www.eastwood.com/blog/eastwoo...s-brake-lines/ "Copper brake lines are not advised, but Copper-Nickel hybrid lines are available that won't corrode and will bend easier than mild or stainless steel lines." -jsw |
#9
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Flare brake lines?
On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 16:27:41 -0400, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 15:21:16 -0500, Tim Wescott wrote: On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 15:17:01 -0500, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote: On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 12:40:30 -0400, Jim Wilkins wrote: A 3/16" (0.191") brake line on my Honda rusted through from the outside and the dealer wants $1200 to take the front and rear apart enough to thread a one-piece new one in. What should I watch for when I splice in a repair section with double-lap flare fittings? Advice on the Net is contradictory and not too helpful. HAH! This IS the "net". Do you (necessarily) expect any better advice here than you'd get elsewhere on the net? (This is not to criticize anyone's advice... only to point out that this is just as unreliable a resource as anything else you might pick up on "the net") Unless you've been watching the group, and you have a notion of who's full of BS and who isn't. Strangely, must of the folks who answer questions here give pretty good advise, IMHO. When I ask for advice on the net I generally pay attention to all of it, but only follow the bits that make sense after I think about them a bit. Here's the best, which I think you posted: Don't screw with brake lines. Do not splice brake lines. Do not jury-rig brake lines. If you had an accident and they found out you'd done something like that, I doubt if the insurance company would pay. Actually, I didn't say "don't screw with it". I said don't splice to a known-bad brake line. If the OP can use approved aftermarket components (i.e., brake lines and blocks from the auto parts store) to do the job, more power to him. I suppose I might think differently if he does it up out of 64 3" sections of line, with 63 splice blocks -- but replacing one 16' long line with two 8' lines makes perfect sense to me. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com |
#10
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Flare brake lines?
On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 17:19:07 -0400, clare wrote:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 15:05:22 -0500, Tim Wescott wrote: On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 12:40:30 -0400, Jim Wilkins wrote: A 3/16" (0.191") brake line on my Honda rusted through from the outside and the dealer wants $1200 to take the front and rear apart enough to thread a one-piece new one in. What should I watch for when I splice in a repair section with double-lap flare fittings? Advice on the Net is contradictory and not too helpful. TIA -JSW I wouldn't splice into the existing brake line, on the general principle that if it broke once, it'll break again. If you can replace the whole thing in sections, with all new pieces, yourself, without major disassembly, then that's to be contemplated. brakes = safety item safety item = don't mess around On Hondas and Toyotas it is not uncommon to see a perfectly solid line rot out under a retaining clip (holds line to body) and the rest of the line is perfect.. In this case, installing a short section can be effective and perfectly acceptable. Just make sure the line IS solid, and make sure you do a good jog ov double flaring the line, and supporting the repaired section when you are done. Generally a good idea to replace the entire run that is clipped to the floor - but you can sometimes avoid having to do the twisties on the firewall and around the rear suspension - or at least the twisties up on the firewall/inner fender behind the engine. I suppose that if there's some clearly obvious section that is rotted out for some clearly obvious reason, that would make sense. I'd inspect those remaining bits of line damned carefully, though. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com |
#11
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Flare brake lines?
"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
... On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 17:19:07 -0400, clare wrote: On Hondas and Toyotas it is not uncommon to see a perfectly solid line rot out under a retaining clip (holds line to body) and the rest of the line is perfect.. In this case, installing a short section can be effective and perfectly acceptable. Just make sure the line IS solid, and make sure you do a good jog ov double flaring the line, and supporting the repaired section when you are done. Generally a good idea to replace the entire run that is clipped to the floor - but you can sometimes avoid having to do the twisties on the firewall and around the rear suspension - or at least the twisties up on the firewall/inner fender behind the engine. I suppose that if there's some clearly obvious section that is rotted out for some clearly obvious reason, that would make sense. I'd inspect those remaining bits of line damned carefully, though. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com The lines run from front to rear through a slotted plastic shield under the body. I sprayed LPS-3 into it and the visible sections still have their factory green finish. There's a little corrosion where the retaining clips blocked the spray but the only serious rust is at the rear behind a solid part of the shield. -jsw |
#12
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Flare brake lines?
Jim - one possibility: go to a local auto parts dealer that sells
"Haynes Repair Manuals" and get a copy for your car. The section labeled "hoses & lines, inspection and replacement" should provide useful data. Hul Jim Wilkins wrote: A 3/16" (0.191") brake line on my Honda rusted through from the outside and the dealer wants $1200 to take the front and rear apart enough to thread a one-piece new one in. What should I watch for when I splice in a repair section with double-lap flare fittings? Advice on the Net is contradictory and not too helpful. TIA -JSW |
#13
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Flare brake lines?
On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 17:28:56 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote: "Ed Huntress" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 15:21:16 -0500, Tim Wescott wrote: On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 15:17:01 -0500, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote: On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 12:40:30 -0400, Jim Wilkins wrote: A 3/16" (0.191") brake line on my Honda rusted through from the outside and the dealer wants $1200 to take the front and rear apart enough to thread a one-piece new one in. What should I watch for when I splice in a repair section with double-lap flare fittings? Advice on the Net is contradictory and not too helpful. HAH! This IS the "net". Do you (necessarily) expect any better advice here than you'd get elsewhere on the net? (This is not to criticize anyone's advice... only to point out that this is just as unreliable a resource as anything else you might pick up on "the net") Unless you've been watching the group, and you have a notion of who's full of BS and who isn't. Strangely, must of the folks who answer questions here give pretty good advise, IMHO. When I ask for advice on the net I generally pay attention to all of it, but only follow the bits that make sense after I think about them a bit. Here's the best, which I think you posted: Don't screw with brake lines. Do not splice brake lines. Do not jury-rig brake lines. If you had an accident and they found out you'd done something like that, I doubt if the insurance company would pay. -- Ed Huntress Is standard hardware made for the purpose considered jury-rigging? Today I got a quote of $500 to replace both rear lines with copper-nickel which is flexible enough to thread through the tight gaps where the factory lines go. Does anyone have experience with it? http://www.eastwood.com/blog/eastwoo...s-brake-lines/ "Copper brake lines are not advised, but Copper-Nickel hybrid lines are available that won't corrode and will bend easier than mild or stainless steel lines." -jsw The copper nickel lines are common in europe but almost unheard of here. The copper-nickel alloy used for brake tubing typically contains 10% nickel, with iron and manganese additions of 1.4% and 0.8% respectively. The product conforms to ASTM B466 (American Society for Testing and Materials), which specifies dimensions, tensile strength and yield strength. Formability and internal cleanliness conform to specifications SAE J527, ASTM A254 and SMMT C5B (Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders). Also, the alloy meets the requirements for pressure containment, fabrication and corrosion resistance for ISO 4038 (International Standards Organization) and SAE J1047. I have used the stuff, and it is easier to use tha steel, and is almost totally corrosion resistant and does not work harden and crack like straight copper. Straight copper is not only "not advised" but is specifically prohibited for automotive brake line use - for very good reason. The stuff isn't cheap, however. I believe one of the most common names is Cunifer. I see Jeggs is carrying the product now at reasonable prices. |
#14
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Flare brake lines?
On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 17:01:45 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote: On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 17:19:07 -0400, clare wrote: On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 15:05:22 -0500, Tim Wescott wrote: On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 12:40:30 -0400, Jim Wilkins wrote: A 3/16" (0.191") brake line on my Honda rusted through from the outside and the dealer wants $1200 to take the front and rear apart enough to thread a one-piece new one in. What should I watch for when I splice in a repair section with double-lap flare fittings? Advice on the Net is contradictory and not too helpful. TIA -JSW I wouldn't splice into the existing brake line, on the general principle that if it broke once, it'll break again. If you can replace the whole thing in sections, with all new pieces, yourself, without major disassembly, then that's to be contemplated. brakes = safety item safety item = don't mess around On Hondas and Toyotas it is not uncommon to see a perfectly solid line rot out under a retaining clip (holds line to body) and the rest of the line is perfect.. In this case, installing a short section can be effective and perfectly acceptable. Just make sure the line IS solid, and make sure you do a good jog ov double flaring the line, and supporting the repaired section when you are done. Generally a good idea to replace the entire run that is clipped to the floor - but you can sometimes avoid having to do the twisties on the firewall and around the rear suspension - or at least the twisties up on the firewall/inner fender behind the engine. I suppose that if there's some clearly obvious section that is rotted out for some clearly obvious reason, that would make sense. I'd inspect those remaining bits of line damned carefully, though. I've seen LOPTS of cases where only a section, or several sections , less than an inch in length are corroded. I have many times replaced only the section of line with corroded spots, saving a LOT of work. Very common, for instance, on 3rd gen Tercels, which have a plastic cover clipped over the lines and salt accumulates around the brake line clips, rotting them through right at the clip. |
#15
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Flare brake lines?
wrote in message ... On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 17:28:56 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: "Ed Huntress" wrote in message . .. On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 15:21:16 -0500, Tim Wescott wrote: On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 15:17:01 -0500, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote: On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 12:40:30 -0400, Jim Wilkins wrote: A 3/16" (0.191") brake line on my Honda rusted through from the outside and the dealer wants $1200 to take the front and rear apart enough to thread a one-piece new one in. What should I watch for when I splice in a repair section with double-lap flare fittings? Advice on the Net is contradictory and not too helpful. HAH! This IS the "net". Do you (necessarily) expect any better advice here than you'd get elsewhere on the net? (This is not to criticize anyone's advice... only to point out that this is just as unreliable a resource as anything else you might pick up on "the net") Unless you've been watching the group, and you have a notion of who's full of BS and who isn't. Strangely, must of the folks who answer questions here give pretty good advise, IMHO. When I ask for advice on the net I generally pay attention to all of it, but only follow the bits that make sense after I think about them a bit. Here's the best, which I think you posted: Don't screw with brake lines. Do not splice brake lines. Do not jury-rig brake lines. If you had an accident and they found out you'd done something like that, I doubt if the insurance company would pay. -- Ed Huntress Is standard hardware made for the purpose considered jury-rigging? Today I got a quote of $500 to replace both rear lines with copper-nickel which is flexible enough to thread through the tight gaps where the factory lines go. Does anyone have experience with it? http://www.eastwood.com/blog/eastwoo...s-brake-lines/ "Copper brake lines are not advised, but Copper-Nickel hybrid lines are available that won't corrode and will bend easier than mild or stainless steel lines." -jsw The copper nickel lines are common in europe but almost unheard of here. The copper-nickel alloy used for brake tubing typically contains 10% nickel, with iron and manganese additions of 1.4% and 0.8% respectively. The product conforms to ASTM B466 (American Society for Testing and Materials), which specifies dimensions, tensile strength and yield strength. Formability and internal cleanliness conform to specifications SAE J527, ASTM A254 and SMMT C5B (Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders). Also, the alloy meets the requirements for pressure containment, fabrication and corrosion resistance for ISO 4038 (International Standards Organization) and SAE J1047. I have used the stuff, and it is easier to use tha steel, and is almost totally corrosion resistant and does not work harden and crack like straight copper. Straight copper is not only "not advised" but is specifically prohibited for automotive brake line use - for very good reason. The stuff isn't cheap, however. I believe one of the most common names is Cunifer. I see Jeggs is carrying the product now at reasonable prices. A local auto store had it on the rack at $30 for a 25' coil of 3/16". NAPA was nearly twice that. I ordered this to fit the cramped space up beside the gas tank and hopefully do better than the usual cast yoke and 2-bar clamp flaring tool I've been practicing with. http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Ca...61A_0006404130 Thanks for the help -jsw |
#16
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Flare brake lines?
On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 12:40:30 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote: A 3/16" (0.191") brake line on my Honda rusted through from the Rust? Must be the salt. Living in CA, I never saw rusted lines. outside and the dealer wants $1200 to take the front and rear apart enough to thread a one-piece new one in. Um, ouch. Yeah, pass. What should I watch for when I splice in a repair section with double-lap flare fittings? Advice on the Net is contradictory and not too helpful. Working with old brake lines is a brass coated bitch. Good luck getting a solid double flare with the now brittle tubing. I much prefer to work with all new tubing. Perhaps look into the possibility of annealing it prior to working with it? I haven't heard of it, but it has been a long while since I was wrenching. shrug Tips: Work super clean. Fully steam clean the area prior to working on it. Use flare wrenches only. Dem tings is TIGHT and round off at the slightest provocation. If you decide to reroute the tube, watch for things like abrading positions, heat from the muffler, rocks from the tires, etc. Shielding and padding are both good workarounds, but some lifts catch different points than you might think, so be aware. Make sure to use the exact double-flare kit for that line size. I've seen guys try to use SAE tools on Metric lines and fail every time. One guy crimped a line so the flow must have been half what is was. (someone left a note for the service manager) Brakes are a life saver, so I don't fark around. Before/After photos, please! Enjoy! This just in via email: Facts You May NOT Know: Researchers for the Massachusetts Turnpike Authority found over 200 dead crows near greater Boston recently, and there was concern that they may have died from Avian Flu. A Bird Pathologist examined the remains of all the crows, and, to everyone's relief, confirmed the problem was definitely NOT Avian Flu. The cause of death appeared to be vehicular impacts. However, during the detailed analysis it was noted that varying colors of paints appeared on the bird's beaks and claws. By analyzing these paint residues it was determined that 98% of the crows had been killed by impact with trucks, while only 2% were killed by an impact with a car. MTA then hired an Ornithological Behaviorist to determine if there was a cause for the disproportionate percentages of truck kills versus car kills. He very quickly concluded the cause: When crows eat road kill, they always have a look-out crow in a nearby tree to warn of impending danger. They discovered that while all the lookout crows could shout "Cah", not a single one could shout "Truck." Makes you wonder why you gave me your email address, huh? -- Stoop and you'll be stepped on; stand tall and you'll be shot at. -- Carlos A. Urbizo |
#17
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Flare brake lines?
Jim Wilkins wrote:
A 3/16" (0.191") brake line on my Honda rusted through from the outside and the dealer wants $1200 to take the front and rear apart enough to thread a one-piece new one in. What should I watch for when I splice in a repair section with double-lap flare fittings? Advice on the Net is contradictory and not too helpful. TIA -JSW Many imports have bubble flares instead of the double flares common on domestics. Go get a length of Nicopp or Cunifer (same alloy different companies) It's great stuff, bends easy, flares easy, doesn't rot. It's more money than steel but less than stainless which is a PIA to work with. Not hard to run the line yourself with this stuff. OR you could go with the precut sections of steel and just couple them with the correct parts. -- Steve W. |
#18
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Flare brake lines?
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#19
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Flare brake lines?
"Steve W." wrote in message
... Jim Wilkins wrote: A 3/16" (0.191") brake line on my Honda rusted through from the outside and the dealer wants $1200 to take the front and rear apart enough to thread a one-piece new one in. What should I watch for when I splice in a repair section with double-lap flare fittings? Advice on the Net is contradictory and not too helpful. TIA -JSW Many imports have bubble flares instead of the double flares common on domestics. Go get a length of Nicopp or Cunifer (same alloy different companies) It's great stuff, bends easy, flares easy, doesn't rot. It's more money than steel but less than stainless which is a PIA to work with. Not hard to run the line yourself with this stuff. OR you could go with the precut sections of steel and just couple them with the correct parts. -- Steve W. I want to know my options before I ask the inspection shop what they will accept, and have several good examples to show them I can do it. They trusted me to replace bad ball joints and brake rotors myself and helped with the Ford's intermittent electrical problem. It looks like coupling in a new section is possible if I can make good flares in the vehicle's tubing. So far I've made decent practice ones on replacement line with the cuts squared and chamfered in the lathe, to isolate the potential problems. I have a mini tubing cutter that cuts cleanly and will fit the tight space but I don't want to wear it dull. Double flaring is turning out to be tricky and error-prone like welding. Here's an example of mixed reviews on the next step up in tooling: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=113006 The vehicle line is straight for several feet in front of the rust-out, so I could cut out a test section and try different tools and techniques like annealing on it. -jsw |
#20
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Flare brake lines?
Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Steve W." wrote in message ... Jim Wilkins wrote: A 3/16" (0.191") brake line on my Honda rusted through from the outside and the dealer wants $1200 to take the front and rear apart enough to thread a one-piece new one in. What should I watch for when I splice in a repair section with double-lap flare fittings? Advice on the Net is contradictory and not too helpful. TIA -JSW Many imports have bubble flares instead of the double flares common on domestics. Go get a length of Nicopp or Cunifer (same alloy different companies) It's great stuff, bends easy, flares easy, doesn't rot. It's more money than steel but less than stainless which is a PIA to work with. Not hard to run the line yourself with this stuff. OR you could go with the precut sections of steel and just couple them with the correct parts. -- Steve W. I want to know my options before I ask the inspection shop what they will accept, and have several good examples to show them I can do it. They trusted me to replace bad ball joints and brake rotors myself and helped with the Ford's intermittent electrical problem. It looks like coupling in a new section is possible if I can make good flares in the vehicle's tubing. So far I've made decent practice ones on replacement line with the cuts squared and chamfered in the lathe, to isolate the potential problems. I have a mini tubing cutter that cuts cleanly and will fit the tight space but I don't want to wear it dull. Double flaring is turning out to be tricky and error-prone like welding. Here's an example of mixed reviews on the next step up in tooling: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=113006 The vehicle line is straight for several feet in front of the rust-out, so I could cut out a test section and try different tools and techniques like annealing on it. -jsw Cunifer is legal in every state AFIK. It is being used on a lot of the high dollar imports and I've been using it in NY for years, it's in the inspection regs as legal. Factory line is soft steel tube, I've never had to do anything other than the steps below. To do a good flare isn't hard IF you follow a few steps. 1 CLEAN the outside of the line. Dirt/rust/crud is not helping. Neither does the coating that some after market line has. 2 cut the tubing square as possible. 3 chamfer it inside and out to eliminate any burrs and clean up the weld seam. 4 REMEMBER TO INSTALL ANY FITTINGS BEFORE YOU ATTEMPT TO FLARE THE LINE!!!!!!! 5 Set up the tool and it's adapter properly. 6 LUBE the line and forming tip. I've made good flares with just about every flare tool I've ever used. From the cheap chinese ones to my mastercool unit. Some are easier than others but if you do the steps they work. This is the one in my tool box http://www.mastercool.com/pages/flaring_tools.html It's basically a hydraulic version of the tool you have. -- Steve W. |
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Flare brake lines?
On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 18:41:33 -0400, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Tim Wescott" wrote in message ... On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 17:19:07 -0400, clare wrote: On Hondas and Toyotas it is not uncommon to see a perfectly solid line rot out under a retaining clip (holds line to body) and the rest of the line is perfect.. In this case, installing a short section can be effective and perfectly acceptable. Just make sure the line IS solid, and make sure you do a good jog ov double flaring the line, and supporting the repaired section when you are done. Generally a good idea to replace the entire run that is clipped to the floor - but you can sometimes avoid having to do the twisties on the firewall and around the rear suspension - or at least the twisties up on the firewall/inner fender behind the engine. I suppose that if there's some clearly obvious section that is rotted out for some clearly obvious reason, that would make sense. I'd inspect those remaining bits of line damned carefully, though. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com The lines run from front to rear through a slotted plastic shield under the body. I sprayed LPS-3 into it and the visible sections still have their factory green finish. There's a little corrosion where the retaining clips blocked the spray but the only serious rust is at the rear behind a solid part of the shield. I guess the key word for me is "workmanlike". A long run that used to be one piece that's had one section cut out and replaced (making it three pieces) is "workmanlike" to me. A long run that used to be one piece with five rusted out spots, that's now in 11 pieces, is not "workmanlike" -- it's "piece of ****" (unless it's a mile long, but there aren't very many mile-long runs of brake tubing in the average car). In Oregon you do the work and you drive the car, and things only become an issue if your brakes fail and you whomp someone. In states that do inspections you have to please the inspector -- but you probably get to at least partially hide behind him, too, if he approved the work and your brakes fail and you whomp someone. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com |
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Flare brake lines?
"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
... On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 18:41:33 -0400, Jim Wilkins wrote: I guess the key word for me is "workmanlike". A long run that used to be one piece that's had one section cut out and replaced (making it three pieces) is "workmanlike" to me. A long run that used to be one piece with five rusted out spots, that's now in 11 pieces, is not "workmanlike" -- it's "piece of ****" (unless it's a mile long, but there aren't very many mile-long runs of brake tubing in the average car). In Oregon you do the work and you drive the car, and things only become an issue if your brakes fail and you whomp someone. In states that do inspections you have to please the inspector -- but you probably get to at least partially hide behind him, too, if he approved the work and your brakes fail and you whomp someone. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com NH has salted roads and yearly inspections. When I told the inspecting mechanic that the line had failed he showed me a rack of flared repair sections to fix it, but said do NOT use compression fittings. I cut out the rust-through and a suspicious spot caused by the adjacent clip and put in a 20" premade section today, with enough of a service loop to cut off and redo the flares if they leak. The spliced line still fits neatly in the clips. I'll be rained/snowed out of working on it this weekend but at least the line is sealed again. -jsw |
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Flare brake lines?
On Fri, 13 Mar 2015 19:28:58 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote: "Tim Wescott" wrote in message ... On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 18:41:33 -0400, Jim Wilkins wrote: I guess the key word for me is "workmanlike". A long run that used to be one piece that's had one section cut out and replaced (making it three pieces) is "workmanlike" to me. A long run that used to be one piece with five rusted out spots, that's now in 11 pieces, is not "workmanlike" -- it's "piece of ****" (unless it's a mile long, but there aren't very many mile-long runs of brake tubing in the average car). In Oregon you do the work and you drive the car, and things only become an issue if your brakes fail and you whomp someone. In states that do inspections you have to please the inspector -- but you probably get to at least partially hide behind him, too, if he approved the work and your brakes fail and you whomp someone. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com NH has salted roads and yearly inspections. When I told the inspecting mechanic that the line had failed he showed me a rack of flared repair sections to fix it, but said do NOT use compression fittings. I cut out the rust-through and a suspicious spot caused by the adjacent clip and put in a 20" premade section today, with enough of a service loop to cut off and redo the flares if they leak. The spliced line still fits neatly in the clips. I'll be rained/snowed out of working on it this weekend but at least the line is sealed again. Be sure to secure that service loop so vibration doesn't come into play. That gooey cork/tar looking stuff they put around A/C low pressure lines works well. It's sticky and stays put in heat. http://tinyurl.com/nw88re6 -- Stoop and you'll be stepped on; stand tall and you'll be shot at. -- Carlos A. Urbizo |
#24
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Flare brake lines?
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
... On Fri, 13 Mar 2015 19:28:58 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: NH has salted roads and yearly inspections. When I told the inspecting mechanic that the line had failed he showed me a rack of flared repair sections to fix it, but said do NOT use compression fittings. I cut out the rust-through and a suspicious spot caused by the adjacent clip and put in a 20" premade section today, with enough of a service loop to cut off and redo the flares if they leak. The spliced line still fits neatly in the clips. I'll be rained/snowed out of working on it this weekend but at least the line is sealed again. Be sure to secure that service loop so vibration doesn't come into play. That gooey cork/tar looking stuff they put around A/C low pressure lines works well. It's sticky and stays put in heat. http://tinyurl.com/nw88re6 The U is only a few inches long and will be restrained at one end where it exits the plastic shield, after I bleed and leak-test the line. On the other side the well-braced parking brake cable is available to support the added mass of the coupler. One of the mechanics I talked to suggested to pad a replaced line with windshield washer hose and tie-wrap it to something nearby if duplicating the factory routing would require too much disassembly of rusted components. Neither the factory nor the Haynes manual give much advice on replacing brake lines. This may be one of those skills you are expected to learn in person from the shop foreman. I feel sorry for mechanics who have to learn how to diagnose complex electronics. The initial drop-out rate at the Army electronic repair school was quite high during the Volts - Amps - Ohms - Watts section. -jsw |
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Flare brake lines?
On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 08:45:29 -0400
"Jim Wilkins" wrote: snip One of the mechanics I talked to suggested to pad a replaced line with windshield washer hose and tie-wrap it to something nearby... I used some clear hose (happened to have some about the right size) at the clips when I replaced one of the rear lines that runs along the axle. Cut a slit in it to get it over the new line and then positioned the slit to be down or on the bottom. The whole area, whole line actually was liberally coated with wheel bearing grease. I could have slid it over first and left it whole but I figured the slit would let moisture drain out. -- Leon Fisk Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b Remove no.spam for email |
#26
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Flare brake lines?
On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 08:45:29 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote: "Larry Jaques" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 13 Mar 2015 19:28:58 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: NH has salted roads and yearly inspections. When I told the inspecting mechanic that the line had failed he showed me a rack of flared repair sections to fix it, but said do NOT use compression fittings. I cut out the rust-through and a suspicious spot caused by the adjacent clip and put in a 20" premade section today, with enough of a service loop to cut off and redo the flares if they leak. The spliced line still fits neatly in the clips. I'll be rained/snowed out of working on it this weekend but at least the line is sealed again. Be sure to secure that service loop so vibration doesn't come into play. That gooey cork/tar looking stuff they put around A/C low pressure lines works well. It's sticky and stays put in heat. http://tinyurl.com/nw88re6 The U is only a few inches long and will be restrained at one end where it exits the plastic shield, after I bleed and leak-test the line. On the other side the well-braced parking brake cable is available to support the added mass of the coupler. One of the mechanics I talked to suggested to pad a replaced line with windshield washer hose and tie-wrap it to something nearby if duplicating the factory routing would require too much disassembly of rusted components. Good! Neither the factory nor the Haynes manual give much advice on replacing brake lines. This may be one of those skills you are expected to learn in person from the shop foreman. I think you're right. UTI didn't teach that to me, either. I think we flared a couple brake lines once, and spent more time on honing and flushing/bleeding. I feel sorry for mechanics who have to learn how to diagnose complex electronics. The initial drop-out rate at the Army electronic repair school was quite high during the Volts - Amps - Ohms - Watts section. They use that damnable Math Voodoo stuff in there! shakes head Come to think of it, I think we lost a couple guys (out of a dozen) in the first couple months of Electronics had been into play for a short while when I retired from the field in late '85. I learned everything I could from the Mitchell manuals Electrical sections. And Echlin (NAPA) had some free courses, all of which I attended. I loved electronics (stereo buff back then), so it's the path I chose after screwing up my back while wrenching. Newer courses surely teach a whole lot more of Ohm's Law than I got in 1972. Either that or they're criminally negligent. IIRC, I had a tougher time in the electrical section at UTI, and that made me pursue it avidly to become better skilled; druthers being that I master _it_, versus the opposite. That said, far too many current mechanics and electronics techs are merely board swappers. I was taught to troubleshoot to the component level in Coleman College's Computer Electronics Technology course. I just wish I'd stayed at it longer. Damned corporate takeovers. SKF gave me some nice going away presents, though, when I told them that cubicle life wasn't for me. -- Stoop and you'll be stepped on; stand tall and you'll be shot at. -- Carlos A. Urbizo |
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Flare brake lines?
On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 07:52:17 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote: On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 08:45:29 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: "Larry Jaques" wrote in message . .. On Fri, 13 Mar 2015 19:28:58 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: NH has salted roads and yearly inspections. When I told the inspecting mechanic that the line had failed he showed me a rack of flared repair sections to fix it, but said do NOT use compression fittings. I cut out the rust-through and a suspicious spot caused by the adjacent clip and put in a 20" premade section today, with enough of a service loop to cut off and redo the flares if they leak. The spliced line still fits neatly in the clips. I'll be rained/snowed out of working on it this weekend but at least the line is sealed again. Be sure to secure that service loop so vibration doesn't come into play. That gooey cork/tar looking stuff they put around A/C low pressure lines works well. It's sticky and stays put in heat. http://tinyurl.com/nw88re6 The U is only a few inches long and will be restrained at one end where it exits the plastic shield, after I bleed and leak-test the line. On the other side the well-braced parking brake cable is available to support the added mass of the coupler. One of the mechanics I talked to suggested to pad a replaced line with windshield washer hose and tie-wrap it to something nearby if duplicating the factory routing would require too much disassembly of rusted components. Good! Neither the factory nor the Haynes manual give much advice on replacing brake lines. This may be one of those skills you are expected to learn in person from the shop foreman. I think you're right. UTI didn't teach that to me, either. I think we flared a couple brake lines once, and spent more time on honing and flushing/bleeding. I feel sorry for mechanics who have to learn how to diagnose complex electronics. The initial drop-out rate at the Army electronic repair school was quite high during the Volts - Amps - Ohms - Watts section. They use that damnable Math Voodoo stuff in there! shakes head Come to think of it, I think we lost a couple guys (out of a dozen) in the first couple months of Electronics had been into play for a short while when I retired from the field in late '85. I learned everything I could from the Mitchell manuals Electrical sections. And Echlin (NAPA) had some free courses, all of which I attended. I loved electronics (stereo buff back then), so it's the path I chose after screwing up my back while wrenching. Newer courses surely teach a whole lot more of Ohm's Law than I got in 1972. Either that or they're criminally negligent. IIRC, I had a tougher time in the electrical section at UTI, and that made me pursue it avidly to become better skilled; druthers being that I master _it_, versus the opposite. That said, far too many current mechanics and electronics techs are merely board swappers. I was taught to troubleshoot to the component level in Coleman College's Computer Electronics Technology course. I just wish I'd stayed at it longer. Damned corporate takeovers. SKF gave me some nice going away presents, though, when I told them that cubicle life wasn't for me. I learned a lot more about things like flaring lines in high school than they taught at trade school, but our high school was much better than most. We consistently had the top grads at trade school. Frank Mader and Gerry Fry were EXCELLENT instructors, who were, first and formost, excellent technicians. I saught to emulate them during my teaching years. Teaching automotive Mechanics in high school is a real challenge because they tend to say "we'll never make an (engineer, electrician, plumber,or whatever of this duffus, so let's put him into auto mechanics" This means the auto instructor has to bring them up to speed on their physics - electrical/electronics theory - hydraulics, their math (ratio and propartion as well as measurement) and make them into electronic technicians/plumbers/machinists/welder-fitters - the whole works - before you can make a mechanic out of them.... |
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Flare brake lines?
"Leon Fisk" wrote in message
... On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 08:45:29 -0400 "Jim Wilkins" wrote: snip One of the mechanics I talked to suggested to pad a replaced line with windshield washer hose and tie-wrap it to something nearby... I used some clear hose (happened to have some about the right size) at the clips when I replaced one of the rear lines that runs along the axle. Cut a slit in it to get it over the new line and then positioned the slit to be down or on the bottom. The whole area, whole line actually was liberally coated with wheel bearing grease. I could have slid it over first and left it whole but I figured the slit would let moisture drain out. -- Leon Fisk Not that it matters at the rear axle, but I try to pre-stock and use plastics known to survive engine compartment temperature like washer and fuel tubing and radiator hose repair tape for DIY patching. I have some tie-wraps, heatshrink, silicone-insulated wire and Anderson connectors in there now to see how they hold up. http://www.amazon.com/Dimart-Silicon.../dp/B00PGTAEXS It's very flexible and rated for 200C. It just barely fits into a 30A Anderson pin if I wind solder around the strands first to pull them together. I just missed capturing 3/14/15 9:26:53 on the clock this morning because I forgot to shut off the flash. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi_Day -jsw |
#29
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Flare brake lines?
wrote in message
news I learned a lot more about things like flaring lines in high school than they taught at trade school, but our high school was much better than most. We consistently had the top grads at trade school. Frank Mader and Gerry Fry were EXCELLENT instructors, who were, first and formost, excellent technicians. I saught to emulate them during my teaching years. Teaching automotive Mechanics in high school is a real challenge because they tend to say "we'll never make an (engineer, electrician, plumber,or whatever of this duffus, so let's put him into auto mechanics" This means the auto instructor has to bring them up to speed on their physics - electrical/electronics theory - hydraulics, their math (ratio and propartion as well as measurement) and make them into electronic technicians/plumbers/machinists/welder-fitters - the whole works - before you can make a mechanic out of them.... The local trade school recently turned their Diesel shop into a computer lab, so there'll be no more small engine repair courses. Welding is the only night class left that isn't an art or craft. A lot of my machine shop stuff came from auctions of school shops being repurposed into something more 'relevant' to a dumbed-down service economy. When I was in high school the college-bound kids took drafting and wood shop and really learned from them since we competed to outdo each other. However auto shop was for parolees from Juvie. -jsw |
#30
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Flare brake lines?
On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 12:47:48 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote: wrote in message news I learned a lot more about things like flaring lines in high school than they taught at trade school, but our high school was much better than most. We consistently had the top grads at trade school. Frank Mader and Gerry Fry were EXCELLENT instructors, who were, first and formost, excellent technicians. I saught to emulate them during my teaching years. Teaching automotive Mechanics in high school is a real challenge because they tend to say "we'll never make an (engineer, electrician, plumber,or whatever of this duffus, so let's put him into auto mechanics" This means the auto instructor has to bring them up to speed on their physics - electrical/electronics theory - hydraulics, their math (ratio and propartion as well as measurement) and make them into electronic technicians/plumbers/machinists/welder-fitters - the whole works - before you can make a mechanic out of them.... The local trade school recently turned their Diesel shop into a computer lab, so there'll be no more small engine repair courses. Welding is the only night class left that isn't an art or craft. A lot of my machine shop stuff came from auctions of school shops being repurposed into something more 'relevant' to a dumbed-down service economy. When I was in high school the college-bound kids took drafting and wood shop and really learned from them since we competed to outdo each other. However auto shop was for parolees from Juvie. -jsw When I said "trade school" I meant post secondary - here in Ontario that is Community College - a requirement for apprenticeship eading to the required licence or certificate of qualification - which is REQUIRED for all regulated trades -electrician, plumber, mechanic, all regulated trades here. In high school they no longer have "auto shop" - it's now "transportation technology" and instead of learning to rebuild engines and transmissions they build motorized skate boards |
#31
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Flare brake lines?
On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 11:49:49 -0400
"Jim Wilkins" wrote: snip Not that it matters at the rear axle, but I try to pre-stock and use plastics known to survive engine compartment temperature like washer and fuel tubing and radiator hose repair tape for DIY patching. I have some tie-wraps, heatshrink, silicone-insulated wire and Anderson connectors in there now to see how they hold up. My truck is a 1982 Chevy 4x4. Bought it new in August of same. So at this point in time you begin to learn what works and doesn't work so well. At least some of us do ;-) I just apply band-aides here & there nowadays when I have to. The road salt finally caught up with it and my age/situation destroyed any ambition I once had... -- Leon Fisk Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b Remove no.spam for email |
#32
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Flare brake lines?
Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message ... On Fri, 13 Mar 2015 19:28:58 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: NH has salted roads and yearly inspections. When I told the inspecting mechanic that the line had failed he showed me a rack of flared repair sections to fix it, but said do NOT use compression fittings. I cut out the rust-through and a suspicious spot caused by the adjacent clip and put in a 20" premade section today, with enough of a service loop to cut off and redo the flares if they leak. The spliced line still fits neatly in the clips. I'll be rained/snowed out of working on it this weekend but at least the line is sealed again. Be sure to secure that service loop so vibration doesn't come into play. That gooey cork/tar looking stuff they put around A/C low pressure lines works well. It's sticky and stays put in heat. http://tinyurl.com/nw88re6 The U is only a few inches long and will be restrained at one end where it exits the plastic shield, after I bleed and leak-test the line. On the other side the well-braced parking brake cable is available to support the added mass of the coupler. One of the mechanics I talked to suggested to pad a replaced line with windshield washer hose and tie-wrap it to something nearby if duplicating the factory routing would require too much disassembly of rusted components. Neither the factory nor the Haynes manual give much advice on replacing brake lines. This may be one of those skills you are expected to learn in person from the shop foreman. I feel sorry for mechanics who have to learn how to diagnose complex electronics. The initial drop-out rate at the Army electronic repair school was quite high during the Volts - Amps - Ohms - Watts section. -jsw If you cover the line make SURE it has some type of sealer or protectant under the cover. Any moisture under the covering will increase the speed that it rusts. I like using alloy lines but if the customer says no I will install steel and coat everything I install with a coat of sealer. I spray the rest with a "custom" mix. Lanolin, beeswax and bar/chain oil, mix it together while heated, brush on and let harden. Basically the same type of item as Waxoyl or Fluid film for a LOT less $$$. I also use it on body panels. -- Steve W. |
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Electronics Training for Privates
On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 08:45:29 -0400, Jim Wilkins wrote:
on-topic stuff snipped I feel sorry for mechanics who have to learn how to diagnose complex electronics. The initial drop-out rate at the Army electronic repair school was quite high during the Volts - Amps - Ohms - Watts section. Now that Radio Shack has crashed, perhaps the defense department should commission someone to come up with a modern version of the 101-in-1 project kits, and sell them for just enough so that people think they're worthwhile. -- www.wescottdesign.com |
#34
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Flare brake lines?
wrote in message
... On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 12:47:48 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: The local trade school recently turned their Diesel shop into a computer lab, so there'll be no more small engine repair courses. Welding is the only night class left that isn't an art or craft. A lot of my machine shop stuff came from auctions of school shops being repurposed into something more 'relevant' to a dumbed-down service economy. When I was in high school the college-bound kids took drafting and wood shop and really learned from them since we competed to outdo each other. However auto shop was for parolees from Juvie. -jsw When I said "trade school" I meant post secondary - here in Ontario that is Community College - a requirement for apprenticeship eading to the required licence or certificate of qualification - which is REQUIRED for all regulated trades -electrician, plumber, mechanic, all regulated trades here. In high school they no longer have "auto shop" - it's now "transportation technology" and instead of learning to rebuild engines and transmissions they build motorized skate boards Here they overlap: http://www.ccsnh.edu/academics/running-start |
#35
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Flare brake lines?
"Leon Fisk" wrote in message
... On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 11:49:49 -0400 "Jim Wilkins" wrote: snip Not that it matters at the rear axle, but I try to pre-stock and use plastics known to survive engine compartment temperature like washer and fuel tubing and radiator hose repair tape for DIY patching. I have some tie-wraps, heatshrink, silicone-insulated wire and Anderson connectors in there now to see how they hold up. My truck is a 1982 Chevy 4x4. Bought it new in August of same. So at this point in time you begin to learn what works and doesn't work so well. At least some of us do ;-) I just apply band-aides here & there nowadays when I have to. The road salt finally caught up with it and my age/situation destroyed any ambition I once had... -- Leon Fisk Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b Remove no.spam for email I hear ya. Crawling under the car reminds me I'm getting old. Things I've fixed tend to stay fixed, but there's no lack of interesting new problems. |
#36
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Flare brake lines?
"Steve W." wrote in message
... Jim Wilkins wrote: "Larry Jaques" wrote in message ... On Fri, 13 Mar 2015 19:28:58 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: NH has salted roads and yearly inspections. When I told the inspecting mechanic that the line had failed he showed me a rack of flared repair sections to fix it, but said do NOT use compression fittings. I cut out the rust-through and a suspicious spot caused by the adjacent clip and put in a 20" premade section today, with enough of a service loop to cut off and redo the flares if they leak. The spliced line still fits neatly in the clips. I'll be rained/snowed out of working on it this weekend but at least the line is sealed again. Be sure to secure that service loop so vibration doesn't come into play. That gooey cork/tar looking stuff they put around A/C low pressure lines works well. It's sticky and stays put in heat. http://tinyurl.com/nw88re6 The U is only a few inches long and will be restrained at one end where it exits the plastic shield, after I bleed and leak-test the line. On the other side the well-braced parking brake cable is available to support the added mass of the coupler. One of the mechanics I talked to suggested to pad a replaced line with windshield washer hose and tie-wrap it to something nearby if duplicating the factory routing would require too much disassembly of rusted components. Neither the factory nor the Haynes manual give much advice on replacing brake lines. This may be one of those skills you are expected to learn in person from the shop foreman. I feel sorry for mechanics who have to learn how to diagnose complex electronics. The initial drop-out rate at the Army electronic repair school was quite high during the Volts - Amps - Ohms - Watts section. -jsw If you cover the line make SURE it has some type of sealer or protectant under the cover. Any moisture under the covering will increase the speed that it rusts. I like using alloy lines but if the customer says no I will install steel and coat everything I install with a coat of sealer. I spray the rest with a "custom" mix. Lanolin, beeswax and bar/chain oil, mix it together while heated, brush on and let harden. Basically the same type of item as Waxoyl or Fluid film for a LOT less $$$. I also use it on body panels. -- Steve W. The places where I sprayed LPS-3 through the large holes in the cover shield didn't rust. This isn't mine. The water-trapping clips are in the center of the picture where the plastic fits tightly against the metal. http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/a...6/DSC00786.jpg This is the problem area at the rear of the shield. Mine doesn't look as bad. http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/a...6/DSC00794.jpg The thread these came from: http://honda-tech.com/honda-element-...w-bad-3064081/ Between the retaining clips the lines still have the factory paint, or the shiny plating where I've scrubbed it off to check them. Most of the clip-covered areas showed only white corrosion from the plating, like his but not as much. The badly rusted area was in the splash zone ahead of the rear wheel, and covered by a short unperforated section of the shield that the photo doesn't show. -jsw |
#37
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Electronics Training for Privates
On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 13:48:32 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote: On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 08:45:29 -0400, Jim Wilkins wrote: on-topic stuff snipped I feel sorry for mechanics who have to learn how to diagnose complex electronics. The initial drop-out rate at the Army electronic repair school was quite high during the Volts - Amps - Ohms - Watts section. Now that Radio Shack has crashed, perhaps the defense department should commission someone to come up with a modern version of the 101-in-1 project kits, and sell them for just enough so that people think they're worthwhile. I bought some project boxes at RatSnack last month, and the guy was looking urpy. He said he wasn't sure how long they'd be running. Did it fall? I hadn't heard. -- However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results. -- Sir Winston Churchill |
#39
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Flare brake lines?
On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 15:03:58 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote: "Leon Fisk" wrote in message ... On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 11:49:49 -0400 "Jim Wilkins" wrote: snip Not that it matters at the rear axle, but I try to pre-stock and use plastics known to survive engine compartment temperature like washer and fuel tubing and radiator hose repair tape for DIY patching. I have some tie-wraps, heatshrink, silicone-insulated wire and Anderson connectors in there now to see how they hold up. My truck is a 1982 Chevy 4x4. Bought it new in August of same. So at this point in time you begin to learn what works and doesn't work so well. At least some of us do ;-) I just apply band-aides here & there nowadays when I have to. The road salt finally caught up with it and my age/situation destroyed any ambition I once had... -- Leon Fisk Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b Remove no.spam for email I hear ya. Crawling under the car reminds me I'm getting old. Time to buy a creeper. What a difference it makes in ease! Things I've fixed tend to stay fixed, but there's no lack of interesting new problems. Murphy is EVERYWHERE... -- However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results. -- Sir Winston Churchill |
#40
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Electronics Training for Privates
Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 13:48:32 -0500, Tim Wescott wrote: On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 08:45:29 -0400, Jim Wilkins wrote: on-topic stuff snipped I feel sorry for mechanics who have to learn how to diagnose complex electronics. The initial drop-out rate at the Army electronic repair school was quite high during the Volts - Amps - Ohms - Watts section. Now that Radio Shack has crashed, perhaps the defense department should commission someone to come up with a modern version of the 101-in-1 project kits, and sell them for just enough so that people think they're worthwhile. I bought some project boxes at RatSnack last month, and the guy was looking urpy. He said he wasn't sure how long they'd be running. Did it fall? I hadn't heard. Here's the story : money.cnn.com/2015/02/09/news/companies/radioshack-store-closings/ - -- Snag |
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