While I am fascinated by machining I have neither skill nor experience
as a machinist. Therefore, I will appreciate your help.

I am considering buying an Emco Compact 5 lathe with mill as a gift
for my son. I don't know what generation the machine is. However,
this is not a CNC capable machine.

Will we regret not finding a machine that has the CNC capability? Or
is this the appropriate place to start. My son is studying chemistry
and has an inventor's genius.

Thanks,

Vernon

Vernon wrote:
(...)

I am considering buying an Emco Compact 5 lathe with mill as a gift
for my son.

In descending order of importance:

1) You are a good dad.

2) Please consider asking your son to attend a machining class
held at your local junior college. I attended and had a great
time learning the safe and proper way to make things using
machine tools.

3) You and your son will be very pleased to start out with a manual
lathe and mill. If you pay attention, your tools will give you
a 'gut level' feel for the variables that will result
in the most productivity and best surface finish.

4) There is always time to move on to CNC after you have made some
parts on the manual machines. Starting with CNC would cheat you
of an intuitive grasp of the subject.

5) If you are patient, you will hear advice from other members of
this group, most of which are much more qualified than me.
Don't be distressed about apparent differences in opinion.

My $.000002

--Winston

I am considering buying an Emco Compact 5 lathe with mill as a gift
for my son. I don't know what generation the machine is. However,
this is not a CNC capable machine.

Good choice for first machine. Do CNC later when he shows interest.

As said in the other response, if its possible to get him to a couple
classes at a tech. college he'll learn a ton. Of course, telling a young man
what he should do and having him listen is a truly rare event.

Karl

"Winston" wrote in message
...
Vernon wrote:
(...)

I am considering buying an Emco Compact 5 lathe with mill as a gift
for my son.

In descending order of importance:

1) You are a good dad.

2) Please consider asking your son to attend a machining class
held at your local junior college. I attended and had a great
time learning the safe and proper way to make things using
machine tools.

3) You and your son will be very pleased to start out with a manual
lathe and mill. If you pay attention, your tools will give you
a 'gut level' feel for the variables that will result
in the most productivity and best surface finish.

4) There is always time to move on to CNC after you have made some
parts on the manual machines. Starting with CNC would cheat you
of an intuitive grasp of the subject.

5) If you are patient, you will hear advice from other members of
this group, most of which are much more qualified than me.
Don't be distressed about apparent differences in opinion.

My $.000002

--Winston

CNC is not really needed, Winston is right about learning on manual
machines. CNC is great for long run/multiple parts. One part is faster on
a manual. And you develop a worth while skill.

On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 22:49:48 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Vernon wrote:
(...)

I am considering buying an Emco Compact 5 lathe with mill as a gift
for my son.

In descending order of importance:

1) You are a good dad.

2) Please consider asking your son to attend a machining class
held at your local junior college. I attended and had a great
time learning the safe and proper way to make things using
machine tools.

3) You and your son will be very pleased to start out with a manual
lathe and mill. If you pay attention, your tools will give you
a 'gut level' feel for the variables that will result
in the most productivity and best surface finish.

4) There is always time to move on to CNC after you have made some
parts on the manual machines. Starting with CNC would cheat you
of an intuitive grasp of the subject.

5) If you are patient, you will hear advice from other members of
this group, most of which are much more qualified than me.
Don't be distressed about apparent differences in opinion.

My $.000002

--Winston


Hey Winston,

Super answer!! Wish we could all take the time to do that nice stuff.

I agree with what you say. CNC versus manual machines is the
equivalent to doing thesis work in chemistry after the junior year.
You still need to know the basics.

Now CAD-CAM, on the other hand, is a way to produce acceptable
drawings without the draftsman's full skill-set. Makes life and
learning easy.

To Vernon:

CNC is a "TOOL", and not a single self-related style. You cannot
SUCCESSFULLY do any notable CNC machining until you understand the
rest of the work being done.

The Emco line of machines is quite good. Good choice for first-timers
too. While I personally have never owned nor operated the EMCO
lathe/mill comb or any of the combo machines (except on a field-trip
to Smithy) I have read many articles, both ways, on their usefulness
in this usegroup, as everyone else here has too. The general
consensus is that if a lathe/mill combo is what you can afford or all
you have room for, go for it. But if a bit more money and a bit more
room is available, then get the two as separate tools. There are
quite affordable separate machines in the same size range as the
EMCO -5, for close to the same dollars.

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

On Sep 25, 7:03*am, Brian Lawson wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 22:49:48 -0700, Winston
wrote:





Vernon wrote:
(...)

I am considering buying an Emco Compact 5 lathe with mill as a gift
for my son.

In descending order of importance:

1) You are a good dad.

2) Please consider asking your son to attend a machining class
* *held at your local junior college. *I attended and had a great
* *time learning the safe and proper way to make things using
* *machine tools.

3) You and your son will be very pleased to start out with a manual
* *lathe and mill. If you pay attention, your tools will give you
* *a 'gut level' feel for the variables that will result
* *in the most productivity and best surface finish.

4) There is always time to move on to CNC after you have made some
* *parts on the manual machines. Starting with CNC would cheat you
* *of an intuitive grasp of the subject.

5) If you are patient, you will hear advice from other members of
* *this group, most of which are much more qualified than me.
* *Don't be distressed about apparent differences in opinion.

My $.000002

--Winston

Hey Winston,

Super answer!! *Wish we could all take the time to do that nice stuff.

I agree with what you say. *CNC versus manual machines is the
equivalent to doing thesis work in chemistry after the junior year.
You still need to know the basics.

Now CAD-CAM, on the other hand, is a way to produce acceptable
drawings without the draftsman's full skill-set. *Makes life and
learning easy.

To Vernon:

CNC is a "TOOL", and not a single self-related style. *You cannot
SUCCESSFULLY do any notable CNC machining until you understand the
rest of the work being done.

The Emco line of machines is quite good. *Good choice for first-timers
too. *While I personally have never owned nor operated the EMCO
lathe/mill comb or any of the combo machines (except on a field-trip
to Smithy) *I have read many articles, both ways, on their usefulness
in this usegroup, as everyone else here has too. *The general
consensus is that if a lathe/mill combo is what you can afford or all
you have room for, go for it. *But if a bit more money and a bit more
room is available, then get the two as separate tools. *There are
quite affordable separate machines in the same size range as the
EMCO -5, for close to the same dollars.

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thank you Winston, Karl and Brian. Your much appreciated advice is
logical and re-assuring.

All the best.

Vernon

Vernon wrote:
While I am fascinated by machining I have neither skill nor experience
as a machinist. Therefore, I will appreciate your help.

I am considering buying an Emco Compact 5 lathe with mill as a gift
for my son. I don't know what generation the machine is. However,
this is not a CNC capable machine.

Will we regret not finding a machine that has the CNC capability? Or
is this the appropriate place to start. My son is studying chemistry
and has an inventor's genius.

I recently bought the CNC version of this machine.
Same lathe, except it has the steppers in place of handwheels.
The milling attachment is the same, no CNC milling control.
This is a very fine precision lathe. It works best for brass, aluminum,
and plastic. It can be used for steel, but don't push it.
The milling setup is pretty light duty. Mine does not have a fine feed,
but yours may. If it was all I had for milling, I'd sell it ($500 on
ebay) and buy a Chinese minimill.
One good alternative I saw was divorcing the mill column from the lathe
and attaching it to it's own X-Y table.
But yes, if you can buy it right, it's a great starter lathe for a kid
of any age.

Be sure it comes with all the tooling, because each piece is expensive.
Typical factory tooling usually included:

3-jaw chuck
collet chuck for lathe
ER25 collet set
Indexer
tool-post, preferably quick-change (2 styles)
Milling table (slotted plated about 5"x6")
Milling clamps
Milling vise

I can send you pics of most of those if you need them.

Brian Lawson wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 22:49:48 -0700, Winston
wrote:

(...)

Hey Winston,

Super answer!! Wish we could all take the time to do that nice stuff.

Thank you, sir.

I agree with what you say. CNC versus manual machines is the
equivalent to doing thesis work in chemistry after the junior year.
You still need to know the basics.

Now CAD-CAM, on the other hand, is a way to produce acceptable
drawings without the draftsman's full skill-set. Makes life and
learning easy.

I love CAD! (Yay Rhino! http://www.rhino3d.com/)

An intro drafting course would be a great idea. If none are available,
careful attention to competent drawings will reveal hints on how to
represent an item clearly and how to dimension it properly.

Hint:
1) Let your drawing 'cool' over night. Look at it the next
morning from the perspective of the machinist who has to make
the part.
2) Chuckle sheepishly at the specification or dimension that you
forgot. (This works for me!)

To Vernon:

(...) But if a bit more money and a bit more
room is available, then get the two as separate tools. There are
quite affordable separate machines in the same size range as the
EMCO -5, for close to the same dollars.

Plus, while your son is hogging out the crankcase on the mill,
you can be turning the cylinders and pistons on the lathe.



--Winston

Brian Lawson wrote:
But if a bit more money and a bit more
room is available, then get the two as separate tools. There are
quite affordable separate machines in the same size range as the
EMCO -5, for close to the same dollars.

Missed this the first time.
I don't know what the price point on this Emco is, or if there are other
considerations.
But in my observation, Emco machines, though finely built, are priced
out of proportion to their utility. And accessories are
machine-specific, expensive, and scarce.

I'd suggest (Shields up!) a new Seig Minilathe from any of the usual
suspects. Once he has the hang of that, get him the minimill next year.

Support is limitless, accessories cheap, tooling standardized.

RB writes:

I'd suggest (Shields up!) a new Seig Minilathe from any of the usual
suspects. Once he has the hang of that, get him the minimill next
year.

And you can add CNC to it later (DIY).

On 2008-09-25, Vernon wrote:
While I am fascinated by machining I have neither skill nor experience
as a machinist. Therefore, I will appreciate your help.

I am considering buying an Emco Compact 5 lathe with mill as a gift
for my son. I don't know what generation the machine is. However,
this is not a CNC capable machine.

O.K. The color can give some clues as to vintage. The older
ones are International orange, and the newer ones are bright red within
those which were made as CNC machines.

Will we regret not finding a machine that has the CNC capability? Or
is this the appropriate place to start.

Anyone *should* learn on a manual machine prior to every trying
to program a CNC machine -- just to have a better feel for what the
machine is capable of before asking the dumb robot to do things which
the machine can't handle.

Note that there are versions of the same lathe which *are* CNC,
both ones using a built-in (but limited) CPU, and ones which are driven
from a PC (which was a bit faster at the time). One advantage of
starting with the manual Compact-5 and then moving to a CNC version of
the same machine is that a certain percentage of the tooling will work
with both machines.

There was also a "F1" CNC mill with the same vintage of
controller CPU as the Compact-5/CNC lathe.

I've got the Compact-5/CNC lathe (but not the "F1 mill"), and I
use it for some things, and my older, larger Clausing manual lathe for
other things -- so it is good to have both around.



My son is studying chemistry
and has an inventor's genius.

Then he should enjoy the manual Compact-5 and learn well from
it.

Send him here for extra guidance.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 26 Sep 2008 04:41:16 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:
--------
There was also a "F1" CNC mill with the same vintage of
controller CPU as the Compact-5/CNC lathe.
---------
see
http://www.lathes.co.uk/emco/index.html

Emcos are nice machines but the smaller manual machines are long
out of production and the parts/accessories are not cheap. one US
source is http://www.blueridgemachinery.com/

One of Blueridge's product lines is Shop Fox, which seems to be
very close to the Emco design.
http://www.blueridgemachinery.com/ma...athe_mill.html


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

As the other comments suggest, anyone approaching small scale machining
should become familiar with manual machine operation first.

There are good write-ups of EMCO combo machines in the archives of this
newsgroup, and several other locations such as the Chaski 3in1 forum, and
the CNC Zone forum.

The capabilities of the EMCO combo machine will most likely enable a user to
fabricate nearly all of the mechanical parts required to convert the machine
to CNC.
Locating the electrical and electronic assemblies shouldn't be difficult.

The amount of information available for converting any common machine to CNC
is very vast.

WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Vernon" wrote in message
...
While I am fascinated by machining I have neither skill nor experience
as a machinist. Therefore, I will appreciate your help.

I am considering buying an Emco Compact 5 lathe with mill as a gift
for my son. I don't know what generation the machine is. However,
this is not a CNC capable machine.

Will we regret not finding a machine that has the CNC capability? Or
is this the appropriate place to start. My son is studying chemistry
and has an inventor's genius.

Thanks,

Vernon

On Sep 26, 11:46*am, "Wild_Bill" wrote:
As the other comments suggest, anyone approaching small scale machining
should become familiar with manual machine operation first.

There are good write-ups of EMCO combo machines in the archives of this
newsgroup, and several other locations such as the Chaski 3in1 forum, and
the CNC Zone forum.

The capabilities of the EMCO combo machine will most likely enable a user to
fabricate nearly all of the mechanical parts required to convert the machine
to CNC.
Locating the electrical and electronic assemblies shouldn't be difficult.

The amount of information available for converting any common machine to CNC
is very vast.

WB
.........
metalworking projectswww.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html

"Vernon" wrote in message

...



While I am fascinated by machining I have neither skill nor experience
as a machinist. *Therefore, I will appreciate your help.

I am considering buying an Emco Compact 5 lathe with mill as a gift
for my son. *I don't know what generation the machine is. *However,
this is not a CNC capable machine.

Will we regret not finding a machine that has the CNC capability? *Or
is this the appropriate place to start. *My son is studying chemistry
and has an inventor's genius.

Thanks,

Vernon- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

By way of follow-up to everybody. I was the successful bidder for the
Emco Compact 5 lathe / mill. However, bidding was stiff and I was the
only guy too dumb and hard headed to give up. I don't even know if
it's complete with all the standard essential accessories. I will
travel to pick it up early next week and will report back.

I genuinely appreciate each and every one of you for sharing not only
your knowledge, but your enthusiasm.

Regards,

Vernon

Vernon wrote:

By way of follow-up to everybody. I was the successful bidder for the
Emco Compact 5 lathe / mill. However, bidding was stiff and I was the
only guy too dumb and hard headed to give up. I don't even know if
it's complete with all the standard essential accessories. I will
travel to pick it up early next week and will report back.

I genuinely appreciate each and every one of you for sharing not only
your knowledge, but your enthusiasm.

Excellent news, Vernon.

As DoN said, you and your son are more than welcome to
pop in and share your questions and comments with the
group.

Best regards

--Winston

On Sep 28, 12:39*am, Winston wrote:
Vernon wrote:
By way of follow-up to everybody. *I was the successful bidder for the
Emco Compact 5 lathe / mill. *However, bidding was stiff and I was the
only guy too dumb and hard headed to give up. *I don't even know if
it's complete with all the standard essential accessories. *I will
travel to pick it up early next week and will report back.

I genuinely appreciate each and every one of you for sharing not only
your knowledge, but your enthusiasm.

Excellent news, Vernon.

As DoN said, you and your son are more than welcome to
pop in and share your questions and comments with the
group.

Best regards

--Winston

Thanks, Winston. I also bought an old bench mill last week. I
thought it was single phase but noooo. It's 3 phase. So now we're
looking into building or buying a phase converter. Also, your
collective wisdom about taking a machining course was well taken.
Next January my wife and I, and possibly both our sons, will enroll in
a junior college course on basic manual machining.

But until we get smart we hope to rely on yall with our dumb
questions.

Regards,

Vernon

On Sep 25, 11:37*am, RB wrote:
Vernon wrote:
While I am fascinated by machining I have neither skill nor experience
as a machinist. *Therefore, I will appreciate your help.

I am considering buying an Emco Compact 5 lathe with mill as a gift
for my son. *I don't know what generation the machine is. *However,
this is not a CNC capable machine.

Will we regret not finding a machine that has the CNC capability? *Or
is this the appropriate place to start. *My son is studying chemistry
and has an inventor's genius.

I recently bought the CNC version of this machine.
Same lathe, except it has the steppers in place of handwheels.
The milling attachment is the same, no CNC milling control.
This is a very fine precision lathe. It works best for brass, aluminum,
and plastic. It can be used for steel, but don't push it.
The milling setup is pretty light duty. Mine does not have a fine feed,
but yours may. If it was all I had for milling, I'd sell it ($500 on
ebay) and buy a Chinese minimill.
One good alternative I saw was divorcing the mill column from the lathe
and attaching it to it's own X-Y table.
But yes, if you can buy it right, it's a great starter lathe for a kid
of any age.

Be sure it comes with all the tooling, because each piece is expensive.
Typical factory tooling usually included:

3-jaw chuck
collet chuck for lathe
ER25 collet set
Indexer
tool-post, preferably quick-change (2 styles)
Milling table (slotted plated about 5"x6")
Milling clamps
Milling vise

I can send you pics of most of those if you need them.

Hey RB,

Whether I bought it "right" remains to be seen. I ended up paying
about what an equivalent lathe / mini mill would cost new at Harbor
Freight. However, I don't know what condition it's in. And I don't
know if it has any - never mind all - of the accessories you list
above. Somebody wanted it almost as much as I did. I can only hope
he did his homework better than I did.

Regards,
Vernon

On Sat, 27 Sep 2008 22:58:06 -0700 (PDT), the infamous Vernon
scrawled the following:

Whether I bought it "right" remains to be seen. I ended up paying
about what an equivalent lathe / mini mill would cost new at Harbor
Freight. However, I don't know what condition it's in. And I don't
know if it has any - never mind all - of the accessories you list
above. Somebody wanted it almost as much as I did. I can only hope
he did his homework better than I did.

Vernon, condolences on your successful auction bidding. ;(

Next time, figure out what you'd pay as a maximum bid, then use
sniping software to enter that bid at the absolute last second. It'll
keep you out of the bidding wars which make sellers ecstatic and
buyers remorseful.

And now, at least you're aware of "homework", eh?

I hope the Emco purchase is chock full of goodies for you.

--
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all
progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

On Sat, 27 Sep 2008 22:54:24 -0700 (PDT), Vernon
wrote:
snip
So now we're
looking into building or buying a phase converter.
snip
---------
Everything considered, the low price and added flexibility of a
VFD [speed control] makes this option very attractive. You can
get units with either 110 or 220 single phase in and 3 phase 220
out.

I got my L100 Hitachi from:
http://www.driveswarehouse.com/Drive...FQOeFQod5UWXEw
http://www.driveswarehouse.com/Drive...00-007MFU.html

Seem to be good people to do business with.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

Vernon wrote:
On Sep 28, 8:11 pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2008-09-28, Vernon wrote:

On Sep 26, 11:46 am, "Wild_Bill" wrote:
[ ... ]

By way of follow-up to everybody. I was the successful bidder for the
Emco Compact 5 lathe / mill. However, bidding was stiff and I was the
only guy too dumb and hard headed to give up. I don't even know if
it's complete with all the standard essential accessories. I will
travel to pick it up early next week and will report back.
If this was eBay -- now that it is won, could you post the URL
(or preferably auction number) for the auction so we can take a look at
it? I could at least tell you something of what might be missing -- or
what you might want to look for. My experience is more with the CNC
version, but I've learned about a lot of the accessories in picking up
more things for my CNC lathe.

Not as sure of the Mill adaptor -- though I have one of the mill
heads on a separate X-Y base to make it a standalone mill. (The column
mounting bracket has the wrong screw pattern to fit the holes on the
back of the lathe bed, so I have never used it under CNC control.

Best of luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. |http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Don,

I'd be both honored and grateful for you to take a peek. Here are
both auctions: One for the lathe / mill and the other for the KBC
bench mill. I now have the bench mill. Hope to fetch the lathe
within the next day or two.

Vernon

http://www.dovebid.com/assets/displa...ItemID=wtb1887

No tooling shown in the picture, hopefully some will be with it when you
pick it up.
At that price I think you did OK. One of those milling attachments alone
sold for over $500 on ebay a few weeks ago.

http://www.dovebid.com/assets/displa...temID=mmt42149

Pretty good deal on that mill-drill

Vernon wrote:

By way of follow-up to everybody. I was the successful bidder for the
Emco Compact 5 lathe / mill. However, bidding was stiff and I was the
only guy too dumb and hard headed to give up. I don't even know if
it's complete with all the standard essential accessories.

This ebay seller has the most complete listing of accessories for the
Emco 5s. He is in England but he ships here for reasonable rates.

http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/barnac...Q_fromZQQ_mdoZ

On Sep 29, 3:58*pm, RB wrote:
Vernon wrote:
By way of follow-up to everybody. *I was the successful bidder for the
Emco Compact 5 lathe / mill. *However, bidding was stiff and I was the
only guy too dumb and hard headed to give up. *I don't even know if
it's complete with all the standard essential accessories.

This ebay seller has the most complete listing of accessories for the
Emco 5s. *He is in England but he ships here for reasonable rates.

http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/barnac...rsZ1QQ_fromZQQ...

Thanks. Since hope springs ever eternal I continue to daydream that I
will pick up the lathe in my arms and need a forklift to load the
accessories. As soon as reality sticks its ugly beak into my fantasy
I will definitely be searching for accessories.

Vernon

Vernon wrote:
On Sep 29, 3:58 pm, RB wrote:
Vernon wrote:
By way of follow-up to everybody. I was the successful bidder for the
Emco Compact 5 lathe / mill. However, bidding was stiff and I was the
only guy too dumb and hard headed to give up. I don't even know if
it's complete with all the standard essential accessories.
This ebay seller has the most complete listing of accessories for the
Emco 5s. He is in England but he ships here for reasonable rates.

http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/barnac...rsZ1QQ_fromZQQ...

Thanks. Since hope springs ever eternal I continue to daydream that I
will pick up the lathe in my arms and need a forklift to load the
accessories. As soon as reality sticks its ugly beak into my fantasy
I will definitely be searching for accessories.

If so, keep an eye on this other auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...&mfe=sideb ar

Most of this stuff will fit your Emco, and whoever buys it will be
looking to piece it out. Wish I could afford to buy it, there's a
fortune here.

On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:47:42 -0700 (PDT), Vernon
wrote:

On Sep 29, 3:58*pm, RB wrote:
Vernon wrote:
By way of follow-up to everybody. *I was the successful bidder for the
Emco Compact 5 lathe / mill. *However, bidding was stiff and I was the
only guy too dumb and hard headed to give up. *I don't even know if
it's complete with all the standard essential accessories.

This ebay seller has the most complete listing of accessories for the
Emco 5s. *He is in England but he ships here for reasonable rates.

http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/barnac...rsZ1QQ_fromZQQ...

Thanks. Since hope springs ever eternal I continue to daydream that I
will pick up the lathe in my arms and need a forklift to load the
accessories. As soon as reality sticks its ugly beak into my fantasy
I will definitely be searching for accessories.

Vernon
============
Be reminded that in many cases it is possible to make the desired
accessory. These can be enjoyable and educational projects in
and of themselves. For example see
http://mcduffee-associates.us/machining/TRAVEL~1.HTM


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

On Sep 29, 4:52*pm, RB wrote:
Vernon wrote:
On Sep 29, 3:58 pm, RB wrote:
Vernon wrote:
By way of follow-up to everybody. *I was the successful bidder for the
Emco Compact 5 lathe / mill. *However, bidding was stiff and I was the
only guy too dumb and hard headed to give up. *I don't even know if
it's complete with all the standard essential accessories.
This ebay seller has the most complete listing of accessories for the
Emco 5s. *He is in England but he ships here for reasonable rates.

http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/barnac...rsZ1QQ_fromZQQ....

Thanks. *Since hope springs ever eternal I continue to daydream that I
will pick up the lathe in my arms and need a forklift to load the
accessories. *As soon as reality sticks its ugly beak into my fantasy
I will definitely be searching for accessories.

If so, keep an eye on this other auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...04826587&mfe=s....

Most of this stuff will fit your Emco, and whoever buys it will be
looking to piece it out. Wish I could afford to buy it, there's a
fortune here.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Holy smokes. So THAT'S where all my accessories went!

Thanks for the heads-up. I will be watching the auction.

I still haven't heard from the auctioneers so as to schedule a pick-up
time and day.

V

On Sep 29, 5:17*pm, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us wrote:
On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:47:42 -0700 (PDT), Vernon





wrote:
On Sep 29, 3:58*pm, RB wrote:
Vernon wrote:
By way of follow-up to everybody. *I was the successful bidder for the
Emco Compact 5 lathe / mill. *However, bidding was stiff and I was the
only guy too dumb and hard headed to give up. *I don't even know if
it's complete with all the standard essential accessories.

This ebay seller has the most complete listing of accessories for the
Emco 5s. *He is in England but he ships here for reasonable rates.

http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/barnac...rsZ1QQ_fromZQQ....

Thanks. *Since hope springs ever eternal I continue to daydream that I
will pick up the lathe in my arms and need a forklift to load the
accessories. *As soon as reality sticks its ugly beak into my fantasy
I will definitely be searching for accessories.

Vernon

============
Be reminded that in many cases it is possible to make the desired
accessory. *These can be enjoyable and educational projects in
and of themselves. *For example seehttp://mcduffee-associates.us/machining/TRAVEL~1.HTM

Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Unka' George. Your link was inspiring. My son Mark inherited his
mechanical genius from his mom. Seriously. I have made inquiries to
get them into a manual machining course come next January at a
community college on the outskirts of Houston. I can hardly wait to
see them start down this fascinating path to discovery. V

On 2008-09-29, Vernon wrote:
On Sep 28, 8:11*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2008-09-28, Vernon wrote:

On Sep 26, 11:46*am, "Wild_Bill" wrote:

* * * * [ ... ]

By way of follow-up to everybody. *I was the successful bidder for the
Emco Compact 5 lathe / mill. *However, bidding was stiff and I was the
only guy too dumb and hard headed to give up. *I don't even know if
it's complete with all the standard essential accessories. *I will
travel to pick it up early next week and will report back.

* * * * If this was eBay -- now that it is won, could you post the URL
(or preferably auction number) for the auction so we can take a look at
it? *I could at least tell you something of what might be missing -- or
what you might want to look for. *My experience is more with the CNC
version, but I've learned about a lot of the accessories in picking up
more things for my CNC lathe.

[ ... ]

Don,

I'd be both honored and grateful for you to take a peek. Here are
both auctions: One for the lathe / mill and the other for the KBC
bench mill. I now have the bench mill. Hope to fetch the lathe
within the next day or two.

Vernon

http://www.dovebid.com/assets/displa...ItemID=wtb1887

O.K. I see that this was an alternate auction site, not eBay.
But I will comment on the machine as I see it covered in the single
photo.

It is currently set up as a mill, so there are quite a few
things missing from the lathe part. What I see as present in the mill
part a

1) The milling column and head.

2) The collet closer (uses ER-25 collets).

3) There *may* be one of the set of collets in the closer, but
I have no way to be sure of that.

4) The milling table is bolted to the cross-slide.

5) The milling head does have its fine feed adjustment (on
the right side of the head. You'll need a metric Allen key to
fit it -- and other bolts which are part of the machine.

Now -- to the lathe, and what I can see is missing and present.

6) You do have the lathe tailstock.

7) You do not have a chuck or collet closer visible for the
spindle. The spindle nose is bare, and requires a rather
specialized chuck mounting style -- screws going through each
chuck body -- or through the mounting flange of the collet
closer.

The available things to fit the spindle a

a) 3-jaw chuck with a Jacobs style key turning
the scroll plate on the back.

The jaws on this can be reversed for large diameter
outside grip.

b) A more conventional 3-jaw universal chuck, which I
consider to be better than the above. I have both.

This one comes with a second set of jaws for the outside
grip mentioned above.

c) A matching 4-jaw universal chuck -- rare, and mostly
nice for turning square stock -- or thin-walled tubing
where four contact points produces less deflection than
three.

This one comes with a second set of outside grip jaws,
four of them, of course.

d) A 4-jaw independent chuck. Thinner body than the other
chucks.

e) A faceplate with four radial T-slots, and possibly a
shield to cover the lathe dog to protect the fingers of
the operator when turning between centers. The dog
should come with this as well.

f) A collet closer which uses the same collets as the mill.

Here is one on eBay with two collets: # 170267277167

8) A ball bearing live center to fit the tailstock taper. You can
get these with a Morse taper 1 shank.

9) A drill chuck to fit the tailstock center. These also
can be found with a Morse taper 1 shank. I've got three which I
keep with my Compact-5/CNC. The one which gets used the most is
an Albrecht 1/4" (6mm) one. I also have an Albecht 1/8" (3mm)
one which I use for precision drilling -- with drill bits down
to #80. I also have for occasional use a ROHM (clone of an
Albrecht) 3/8", which is useful when I need larger bits --
though if you stumble over a set of Morse Taper 1 shanked bits,
they will be a nice fit for the machine.

10) I don't see the stack of change gears to allow setting for
various thread pitches. They mount under the left-hand cover.

11) An index fixture which accepts the same chucks as the lathe.

12) A steady rest

13) A toolpost to replace the miling table on the cross slide.
There are several styles which can be made to fit the machine.
The one which came with my Compact-5/CNC is a Dickson style
quick-change toolpost with a set of tool holders.

Here is one which would work fairly well for the Compact 5:

eBay auction # 320304759552

And another:

eBay auction # 220287814672

This is only for the CNC version, so skip it unless you expect
to pick up the CNC version later:

eBay auction # 320303997422

And here is a toolpost for the manual Compact-5:

eBay auction # 270280297743

Unfortunately, that one is in the UK so the price gets
complicated with the shipping. :-)

I hope that more of the accessories come with it than are
visible. I don't know whether this auction is a "what you see is all
that you get" type.

There is an eBay auction which has several things which you will
want, but also a *lot* of repair parts for the CNC version of the
machine. Bids are already up to $510.00 with "reserve not yet met", so
you probably don't want this unless you expect to pick up the
Compact-5/CNC in "basket case" condition, in which case this would be a
serious help.

eBay auction # 320304826587

And here is a Compact-5/CNC with a somewhat rusty chuck and
quick-change toolpost: eBay auction # 320288213355

*Way* too expensive for the visible condition in my book.

Now -- to your other win:

http://www.dovebid.com/assets/displa...temID=mmt42149

This one I am not familiar with so others will probably offer
more useful information on this. It is interesting that the auctioneers
call it a "drill press", which suggests that it may have a drill chuck
instead of a collet in the spindle nose. But it does appear to have a
drawbar at the top of the spindle, so between that and the table *I*
would call it a mill. At least you did not have someone else bidding
against you on this one, so the price was quite reasonable.

I wonder what part the other bidder was after on the Compact-5?
Perhaps the entire milling attachment? The column of the Compact-5
milling attachment is a bit weak for that to be desirable for milling of
steel at lest.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2008-09-29, RB wrote:
Vernon wrote:

By way of follow-up to everybody. I was the successful bidder for the
Emco Compact 5 lathe / mill. However, bidding was stiff and I was the
only guy too dumb and hard headed to give up. I don't even know if
it's complete with all the standard essential accessories.

This ebay seller has the most complete listing of accessories for the
Emco 5s. He is in England but he ships here for reasonable rates.

http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/barnac...Q_fromZQQ_mdoZ

Great! His first auction (#280262335339) is for the change gear
set which you may need (unless there is stuff which comes with it not
shown in the auction picture).

Lots of other good things there too -- just make sure that you
focus on things for the Compact-5, as there are others being sold there
too.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Sep 29, 9:12*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2008-09-29, Vernon wrote:





On Sep 28, 8:11*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2008-09-28, Vernon wrote:

On Sep 26, 11:46*am, "Wild_Bill" wrote:

* * * * [ ... ]

By way of follow-up to everybody. *I was the successful bidder for the
Emco Compact 5 lathe / mill. *However, bidding was stiff and I was the
only guy too dumb and hard headed to give up. *I don't even know if
it's complete with all the standard essential accessories. *I will
travel to pick it up early next week and will report back.

* * * * If this was eBay -- now that it is won, could you post the URL
(or preferably auction number) for the auction so we can take a look at
it? *I could at least tell you something of what might be missing -- or
what you might want to look for. *My experience is more with the CNC
version, but I've learned about a lot of the accessories in picking up
more things for my CNC lathe.

* * * * [ ... ]

Don,

I'd be both honored and grateful for you to take a peek. *Here are
both auctions: *One for the lathe / mill and the other for the KBC
bench mill. *I now have the bench mill. *Hope to fetch the lathe
within the next day or two.

Vernon

http://www.dovebid.com/assets/displa...ItemID=wtb1887

* * * * O.K. I see that this was an alternate auction site, not eBay.
But I will comment on the machine as I see it covered in the single
photo.

* * * * It is currently set up as a mill, so there are quite a few
things missing from the lathe part. *What I see as present in the mill
part a

1) * * *The milling column and head.

2) * * *The collet closer (uses ER-25 collets).

3) * * *There *may* be one of the set of collets in the closer, but
* * * * I have no way to be sure of that.

4) * * *The milling table is bolted to the cross-slide.

5) * * *The milling head does have its fine feed adjustment (on
* * * * the right side of the head. *You'll need a metric Allen key to
* * * * fit it -- and other bolts which are part of the machine.

* * * * Now -- to the lathe, and what I can see is missing and present.

6) * * *You do have the lathe tailstock.

7) * * *You do not have a chuck or collet closer visible for the
* * * * spindle. *The spindle nose is bare, and requires a rather
* * * * specialized chuck mounting style -- screws going through each
* * * * chuck body -- or through the mounting flange of the collet
* * * * closer.

* * * * The available things to fit the spindle a

* * * * a) * * *3-jaw chuck with a Jacobs style key turning
* * * * * * * * the scroll plate on the back.

* * * * * * * * The jaws on this can be reversed for large diameter
* * * * * * * * outside grip.

* * * * b) * * *A more conventional 3-jaw universal chuck, which I
* * * * * * * * consider to be better than the above. *I have both.

* * * * * * * * This one comes with a second set of jaws for the outside
* * * * * * * * grip mentioned above.

* * * * c) * * *A matching 4-jaw universal chuck -- rare, and mostly
* * * * * * * * nice for turning square stock -- or thin-walled tubing
* * * * * * * * where four contact points produces less deflection than
* * * * * * * * three.

* * * * * * * * This one comes with a second set of outside grip jaws,
* * * * * * * * four of them, of course.

* * * * d) * * *A 4-jaw independent chuck. *Thinner body than the other
* * * * * * * * chucks.

* * * * e) * * *A faceplate with four radial T-slots, and possibly a
* * * * * * * * shield to cover the lathe dog to protect the fingers of
* * * * * * * * the operator when turning between centers.. *The dog
* * * * * * * * should come with this as well.

* * * * f) * * *A collet closer which uses the same collets as the mill.

* * * * * * * * Here is one on eBay with two collets: *# 170267277167

8) * * *A ball bearing live center to fit the tailstock taper. *You can
* * * * get these with a Morse taper 1 shank.

9) * * *A drill chuck to fit the tailstock center. *These also
* * * * can be found with a Morse taper 1 shank. *I've got three which I
* * * * keep with my Compact-5/CNC. *The one which gets used the most is
* * * * an Albrecht 1/4" (6mm) one. *I also have an Albecht 1/8" (3mm)
* * * * one which I use for precision drilling -- with drill bits down
* * * * to #80. *I also have for occasional use a ROHM (clone of an
* * * * Albrecht) 3/8", which is useful when I need larger bits --
* * * * though if you stumble over a set of Morse Taper 1 shanked bits,
* * * * they will be a nice fit for the machine.

10) * * I don't see the stack of change gears to allow setting for
* * * * various thread pitches. *They mount under the left-hand cover.

11) * * An index fixture which accepts the same chucks as the lathe.

12) * * A steady rest

13) * * A toolpost to replace the miling table on the cross slide.
* * * * There are several styles which can be made to fit the machine.
* * * * The one which came with my Compact-5/CNC is a Dickson style
* * * * quick-change toolpost with a set of tool holders.

* * * * Here is one which would work fairly well for the Compact 5:

* * * * eBay auction # 320304759552

* * * * And another:

* * * * eBay auction # 220287814672

* * * * This is only for the CNC version, so skip it unless you expect
* * * * to pick up the CNC version later:

* * * * eBay auction # 320303997422

* * * * And here is a toolpost for the manual Compact-5:

* * * * eBay auction # 270280297743

* * * * Unfortunately, that one is in the UK so the price gets
* * * * complicated with the shipping. :-)

* * * * I hope that more of the accessories come with it than are
visible. *I don't know whether this auction is a "what you see is all
that you get" type.

* * * * There is an eBay auction which has several things which you will
want, but also a *lot* of repair parts for the CNC version of the
machine. *Bids are already up to $510.00 with "reserve not yet met", so
you probably don't want this unless you expect to pick up the
Compact-5/CNC in "basket case" condition, in which case this would be a
serious help.

* * * * eBay auction # 320304826587

* * * * And here is a Compact-5/CNC with a somewhat rusty chuck and
quick-change toolpost: eBay auction # 320288213355

*Way* too expensive for the visible condition in my book.

* * * * Now -- to your other win:

http://www.dovebid.com/assets/displa...temID=mmt42149

* * * * This one I am not familiar with so others will probably offer
more useful information on this. *It is interesting that the auctioneers
call it a "drill press", which suggests that it may have a drill chuck
instead of a collet in the spindle nose. *But it does appear to have a
drawbar at the top of the spindle, so between that and the table *I*
would call it a mill. *At least you did not have someone else bidding
against you on this one, so the price was quite reasonable.

* * * * I wonder what part the other bidder was after on the Compact-5?
Perhaps the entire milling attachment? *The column of the Compact-5
milling attachment is a bit weak for that to be desirable for milling of
steel at lest.

--
*Email: * * | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
* * * * (too) near Washington D.C. |http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
* * * * * *--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Unka' George. Thank you for the encyclopedic response. That's a
pretty long shopping list. So I will hope at least some of the stuff
is on the pallet even though outside the picture. Can hardly wait to
see my wife and kids making stuff. V

On 2008-09-29, RB wrote:

[ ... ]

If so, keep an eye on this other auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...&mfe=sideb ar

Most of this stuff will fit your Emco, and whoever buys it will be
looking to piece it out. Wish I could afford to buy it, there's a
fortune here.

Actually while a lot of it will fit a Compact-5/CNC, only a few
things will fit the manual version of the Compact-5 which is what he
has. Granted, some of them are things which he needs, but there is a
lot of stuff which won't do him any good -- unless he gets a
Compact-5/CNC later.

But if he *does* -- in particular that maintenance manual will
be a Godsend, and a lot of the other stuff will be quite useful too.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Blue Ridge Machinery has Emco parts. I have a Compact 8 and have
purchased from them without problems, although not in the past two years
or so.

David

On Sep 29, 9:12*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2008-09-29, Vernon wrote:





On Sep 28, 8:11*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2008-09-28, Vernon wrote:

On Sep 26, 11:46*am, "Wild_Bill" wrote:

* * * * [ ... ]

By way of follow-up to everybody. *I was the successful bidder for the
Emco Compact 5 lathe / mill. *However, bidding was stiff and I was the
only guy too dumb and hard headed to give up. *I don't even know if
it's complete with all the standard essential accessories. *I will
travel to pick it up early next week and will report back.

* * * * If this was eBay -- now that it is won, could you post the URL
(or preferably auction number) for the auction so we can take a look at
it? *I could at least tell you something of what might be missing -- or
what you might want to look for. *My experience is more with the CNC
version, but I've learned about a lot of the accessories in picking up
more things for my CNC lathe.

* * * * [ ... ]

Don,

I'd be both honored and grateful for you to take a peek. *Here are
both auctions: *One for the lathe / mill and the other for the KBC
bench mill. *I now have the bench mill. *Hope to fetch the lathe
within the next day or two.

Vernon

http://www.dovebid.com/assets/displa...ItemID=wtb1887

* * * * O.K. I see that this was an alternate auction site, not eBay.
But I will comment on the machine as I see it covered in the single
photo.

* * * * It is currently set up as a mill, so there are quite a few
things missing from the lathe part. *What I see as present in the mill
part a

1) * * *The milling column and head.

2) * * *The collet closer (uses ER-25 collets).

3) * * *There *may* be one of the set of collets in the closer, but
* * * * I have no way to be sure of that.

4) * * *The milling table is bolted to the cross-slide.

5) * * *The milling head does have its fine feed adjustment (on
* * * * the right side of the head. *You'll need a metric Allen key to
* * * * fit it -- and other bolts which are part of the machine.

* * * * Now -- to the lathe, and what I can see is missing and present.

6) * * *You do have the lathe tailstock.

7) * * *You do not have a chuck or collet closer visible for the
* * * * spindle. *The spindle nose is bare, and requires a rather
* * * * specialized chuck mounting style -- screws going through each
* * * * chuck body -- or through the mounting flange of the collet
* * * * closer.

* * * * The available things to fit the spindle a

* * * * a) * * *3-jaw chuck with a Jacobs style key turning
* * * * * * * * the scroll plate on the back.

* * * * * * * * The jaws on this can be reversed for large diameter
* * * * * * * * outside grip.

* * * * b) * * *A more conventional 3-jaw universal chuck, which I
* * * * * * * * consider to be better than the above. *I have both.

* * * * * * * * This one comes with a second set of jaws for the outside
* * * * * * * * grip mentioned above.

* * * * c) * * *A matching 4-jaw universal chuck -- rare, and mostly
* * * * * * * * nice for turning square stock -- or thin-walled tubing
* * * * * * * * where four contact points produces less deflection than
* * * * * * * * three.

* * * * * * * * This one comes with a second set of outside grip jaws,
* * * * * * * * four of them, of course.

* * * * d) * * *A 4-jaw independent chuck. *Thinner body than the other
* * * * * * * * chucks.

* * * * e) * * *A faceplate with four radial T-slots, and possibly a
* * * * * * * * shield to cover the lathe dog to protect the fingers of
* * * * * * * * the operator when turning between centers.. *The dog
* * * * * * * * should come with this as well.

* * * * f) * * *A collet closer which uses the same collets as the mill.

* * * * * * * * Here is one on eBay with two collets: *# 170267277167

8) * * *A ball bearing live center to fit the tailstock taper. *You can
* * * * get these with a Morse taper 1 shank.

9) * * *A drill chuck to fit the tailstock center. *These also
* * * * can be found with a Morse taper 1 shank. *I've got three which I
* * * * keep with my Compact-5/CNC. *The one which gets used the most is
* * * * an Albrecht 1/4" (6mm) one. *I also have an Albecht 1/8" (3mm)
* * * * one which I use for precision drilling -- with drill bits down
* * * * to #80. *I also have for occasional use a ROHM (clone of an
* * * * Albrecht) 3/8", which is useful when I need larger bits --
* * * * though if you stumble over a set of Morse Taper 1 shanked bits,
* * * * they will be a nice fit for the machine.

10) * * I don't see the stack of change gears to allow setting for
* * * * various thread pitches. *They mount under the left-hand cover.

11) * * An index fixture which accepts the same chucks as the lathe.

12) * * A steady rest

13) * * A toolpost to replace the miling table on the cross slide.
* * * * There are several styles which can be made to fit the machine.
* * * * The one which came with my Compact-5/CNC is a Dickson style
* * * * quick-change toolpost with a set of tool holders.

* * * * Here is one which would work fairly well for the Compact 5:

* * * * eBay auction # 320304759552

* * * * And another:

* * * * eBay auction # 220287814672

* * * * This is only for the CNC version, so skip it unless you expect
* * * * to pick up the CNC version later:

* * * * eBay auction # 320303997422

* * * * And here is a toolpost for the manual Compact-5:

* * * * eBay auction # 270280297743

* * * * Unfortunately, that one is in the UK so the price gets
* * * * complicated with the shipping. :-)

* * * * I hope that more of the accessories come with it than are
visible. *I don't know whether this auction is a "what you see is all
that you get" type.

* * * * There is an eBay auction which has several things which you will
want, but also a *lot* of repair parts for the CNC version of the
machine. *Bids are already up to $510.00 with "reserve not yet met", so
you probably don't want this unless you expect to pick up the
Compact-5/CNC in "basket case" condition, in which case this would be a
serious help.

* * * * eBay auction # 320304826587

* * * * And here is a Compact-5/CNC with a somewhat rusty chuck and
quick-change toolpost: eBay auction # 320288213355

*Way* too expensive for the visible condition in my book.

* * * * Now -- to your other win:

http://www.dovebid.com/assets/displa...temID=mmt42149

* * * * This one I am not familiar with so others will probably offer
more useful information on this. *It is interesting that the auctioneers
call it a "drill press", which suggests that it may have a drill chuck
instead of a collet in the spindle nose. *But it does appear to have a
drawbar at the top of the spindle, so between that and the table *I*
would call it a mill. *At least you did not have someone else bidding
against you on this one, so the price was quite reasonable.

* * * * I wonder what part the other bidder was after on the Compact-5?
Perhaps the entire milling attachment? *The column of the Compact-5
milling attachment is a bit weak for that to be desirable for milling of
steel at lest.

--
*Email: * * | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
* * * * (too) near Washington D.C. |http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
* * * * * *--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hey Don, I didn't know you were an accordion player. So am I
although I am a dunce on the concertina. I played 120 bass piano key
accordion as a kid. V

On 2008-10-02, Vernon wrote:
On Sep 29, 9:12*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:

* * * * (too) near Washington D.C. |http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html

[ ... ]

Hey Don, I didn't know you were an accordion player. So am I
although I am a dunce on the concertina. I played 120 bass piano key
accordion as a kid. V

Well ... not accordion -- just concertina (and tinwhistle).
Which style of concertina did you try? Probably an Anglo style ((loke a
couple of harmonicas in two different keys broken in half wit the low
end going up the left hand side and the high end going down the right
hand side, so if you turned both hands palms down (and the bellows was
long enough to allow this), you could see the buttons form a row per
harmonica. Anyway -- this style gives a different note on press vs draw
for each button. If you play the Piano Accordion, you could probably
play the English system concertina fairly well too.

The English system is what I play.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Oct 2, 5:24*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2008-10-02, Vernon wrote:

On Sep 29, 9:12*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
* * * * (too) near Washington D.C. |http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html

* * * * [ ... ]

Hey Don, *I didn't know you were an accordion player. *So am I
although I am a dunce on the concertina. *I played 120 bass piano key
accordion as a kid. *V

* * * * Well ... not accordion -- just concertina (and tinwhistle).
Which style of concertina did you try? *Probably an Anglo style ((loke a
couple of harmonicas in two different keys broken in half wit the low
end going up the left hand side and the high end going down the right
hand side, so if you turned both hands palms down (and the bellows was
long enough to allow this), you could see the buttons form a row per
harmonica. *Anyway -- this style gives a different note on press vs draw
for each button. *If you play the Piano Accordion, you could probably
play the English system concertina fairly well too.

* * * * The English system is what I play.

* * * * Enjoy,
* * * * * * * * DoN.

--
*Email: * * | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
* * * * (too) near Washington D.C. |http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
* * * * * *--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

I thought all concertinas were diatonic until reading your post. I
had one for a time I bought on ebay but never got the hang of it so I
sold it the same way. I've also played the Mexican corrido type
diatonics and similarly, with little success. It's odd because I play
the harmonica reasonably well. But I never could get the "innie
outie" difference when it transferred to my fingers. We're also
interested in the tin whistles and anything Irish. My older son is
quite the virtuoso on the tin whistle.

V

On 2008-10-03, Vernon wrote:
On Oct 2, 5:24*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:

[ ... ]

* * * * Well ... not accordion -- just concertina (and tinwhistle).
Which style of concertina did you try? *Probably an Anglo style ((loke a

[ ... ]

* * * * The English system is what I play.

[ ... ]

I thought all concertinas were diatonic until reading your post. I
had one for a time I bought on ebay but never got the hang of it so I
sold it the same way. I've also played the Mexican corrido type
diatonics and similarly, with little success. It's odd because I play
the harmonica reasonably well.

My brain's wiring does not fit the diatonics, either. The
English system is fully chromatic, typically 3-1/2 octaves (from G below
middle C to C three octaves above middle C). This is the range of the
Treble English. My preference is a Tenor-Treble -- starts a half octave
below that at the C below middle C and goes up as far as the Treble
does.

All notes on the left hand are on the lines of the staff, and
all on the right hand are on the spaces, so a run alternates hands. (It
does make it easier to pick up playing from sheet music, as does the
nice mapping of the physical position of the buttons to the lines and
spaces. There are some duplications in the accidentals, such as D# and
Eb -- on opposite hands.

But I never could get the "innie
outie" difference when it transferred to my fingers.

Those who can -- especially coming from the harmonica -- seem to
tie the bellows travel to their breathing patterns. :-)

We're also
interested in the tin whistles and anything Irish. My older son is
quite the virtuoso on the tin whistle.

Hmm ... does he happen to have one (or more) of the Copeland
tin whistles? Expensive, but worth it.

Perhaps we should drop to e-mail for this, as we are well off
topic for the newsgroup. :-)

Or -- we could move to rec.music.makers.squeezebox. :-)

Please avoid HTML and attachments when e-mailing to me.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Oct 2, 10:32*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2008-10-03, Vernon wrote:

On Oct 2, 5:24*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:

* * * * [ ... ]

* * * * Well ... not accordion -- just concertina (and tinwhistle).
Which style of concertina did you try? *Probably an Anglo style ((loke a

* * * * [ ... ]

* * * * The English system is what I play.

* * * * [ ... ]

I thought all concertinas were diatonic until reading your post. *I
had one for a time I bought on ebay but never got the hang of it so I
sold it the same way. *I've also played the Mexican corrido type
diatonics and similarly, with little success. *It's odd because I play
the harmonica reasonably well.

* * * * My brain's wiring does not fit the diatonics, either. *The
English system is fully chromatic, typically 3-1/2 octaves (from G below
middle C to C three octaves above middle C). *This is the range of the
Treble English. *My preference is a Tenor-Treble -- starts a half octave
below that at the C below middle C and goes up as far as the Treble
does.

* * * * All notes on the left hand are on the lines of the staff, and
all on the right hand are on the spaces, so a run alternates hands. *(It
does make it easier to pick up playing from sheet music, as does the
nice mapping of the physical position of the buttons to the lines and
spaces. *There are some duplications in the accidentals, such as D# and
Eb -- on opposite hands.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * But I never could get the "innie
outie" difference when it transferred to my fingers.

* * * * Those who can -- especially coming from the harmonica -- seem to
tie the bellows travel to their breathing patterns. :-)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * We're also
interested in the tin whistles and anything Irish. *My older son is
quite the virtuoso on the tin whistle.

* * * * Hmm ... does he happen to have one (or more) of the Copeland
tin whistles? *Expensive, but worth it.

* * * * Perhaps we should drop to e-mail for this, as we are well off
topic for the newsgroup. :-)

* * * * Or -- we could move to rec.music.makers.squeezebox. :-)

* * * * Please avoid HTML and attachments when e-mailing to me.

* * * * Enjoy,
* * * * * * * * DoN.

--
*Email: * * | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
* * * * (too) near Washington D.C. |http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
* * * * * *--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Well, back on topic. I got home with the lathe / mill today. I'm
delighted to report that it was sitting on a little rubbermaid 5
drawer tool box that contained a treasure trove of goodies. We
haven't inventoried everything yet but there's a lot of stuff. The
lady who was assigned to escort me was the very same person who used
the lathe before the plant closure. It was like she was giving up her
baby to an orphanage. Plant closures are so gut wrenching.

While I was gone the VFD came for the KBC mill. So the family machine
shop seems to be coming together quickly. I'm reviewing the technical
instructions on the inverter. There is mention of some additional
components such as a "reactor" in case the input power is out of
balance by more than 3% plus a radio noise suppressor. The latter
probably isn't needed. But I think the "reactor" may apply to us.
Since we're in a rural location power is pretty dicey. In fact,
recently, one leg of the 220v supply died completely. I don't know
what that would do to an inverter. But at $350 a pop I don't wanna
find out. Even with my poor math one leg is a tad over 3% if I'm not
mistaken.

I dug out my 1941 Machinist's Handbook this evening. I hope we can
find somebody to teach us the proper care and feeding of the lathe
before January. That's when the next junior college manual lathe
operator's course meets.

Thanks to everybody for your support. This is a superb group.

Vernon

On Thu, 2 Oct 2008 21:00:43 -0700 (PDT), Vernon
wrote:


Well, back on topic. I got home with the lathe / mill today. I'm
delighted to report that it was sitting on a little rubbermaid 5
drawer tool box that contained a treasure trove of goodies. We
haven't inventoried everything yet but there's a lot of stuff. The
lady who was assigned to escort me was the very same person who used
the lathe before the plant closure. It was like she was giving up her
baby to an orphanage. Plant closures are so gut wrenching.

While I was gone the VFD came for the KBC mill. So the family machine
shop seems to be coming together quickly. I'm reviewing the technical
instructions on the inverter. There is mention of some additional
components such as a "reactor" in case the input power is out of
balance by more than 3% plus a radio noise suppressor. The latter
probably isn't needed. But I think the "reactor" may apply to us.
Since we're in a rural location power is pretty dicey. In fact,
recently, one leg of the 220v supply died completely. I don't know
what that would do to an inverter. But at $350 a pop I don't wanna
find out. Even with my poor math one leg is a tad over 3% if I'm not
mistaken.

I dug out my 1941 Machinist's Handbook this evening. I hope we can
find somebody to teach us the proper care and feeding of the lathe
before January. That's when the next junior college manual lathe
operator's course meets.

Thanks to everybody for your support. This is a superb group.

Vernon
Just like Christmas isn't it?
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

On Thu, 2 Oct 2008 21:00:43 -0700 (PDT), Vernon
wrote:

While I was gone the VFD came for the KBC mill. So the family machine
shop seems to be coming together quickly. I'm reviewing the technical
instructions on the inverter. There is mention of some additional
components such as a "reactor" in case the input power is out of
balance by more than 3% plus a radio noise suppressor. The latter
probably isn't needed. But I think the "reactor" may apply to us.
Since we're in a rural location power is pretty dicey. In fact,
recently, one leg of the 220v supply died completely. I don't know
what that would do to an inverter. But at $350 a pop I don't wanna
find out. Even with my poor math one leg is a tad over 3% if I'm not
mistaken.

Unless your VFD is very unusual, it was designed to run on 3 phase
power, but will run on single phase with some derating. You're
planning on connecting it to single phase, which means one of the
VFD's power inputs will be unconnected -- a 100% imbalance -- and a
reactor isn't going to help that situation.

I've purchased line reactors from these folks, you may find useful
information in their technical articles.
http://www.transcoil.com/

--
Ned Simmons

On Oct 3, 8:31*am, Ned Simmons wrote:
On Thu, 2 Oct 2008 21:00:43 -0700 (PDT), Vernon
wrote:



While I was gone the VFD came for the KBC mill. *So the family machine
shop seems to be coming together quickly. *I'm reviewing the technical
instructions on the inverter. *There is mention of some additional
components such as a "reactor" in case the input power is out of
balance by more than 3% plus a radio noise suppressor. *The latter
probably isn't needed. *But I think the "reactor" may apply to us.
Since we're in a rural location power is pretty dicey. *In fact,
recently, one leg of the 220v supply died completely. *I don't know
what that would do to an inverter. *But at $350 a pop I don't wanna
find out. *Even with my poor math one leg is a tad over 3% if I'm not
mistaken.

Unless your VFD is very unusual, it was designed to run on 3 phase
power, but will run on single phase with some derating. You're
planning on connecting it to single phase, which means one of the
VFD's power inputs will be unconnected -- a 100% imbalance -- and a
reactor isn't going to help that situation.

I've purchased line reactors from these folks, you may find useful
information in their technical articles.http://www.transcoil.com/

--
Ned Simmons

Ned,

Thanks for the clarification. I'm doing mortal battle with my own
ineptitude at things electrical.

Vernon

Vernon wrote:
On Oct 2, 10:32 pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2008-10-03, Vernon wrote:

On Oct 2, 5:24 pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
[ ... ]

Well ... not accordion -- just concertina (and tinwhistle).
Which style of concertina did you try? Probably an Anglo style ((loke a
[ ... ]

The English system is what I play.
[ ... ]

I thought all concertinas were diatonic until reading your post. I
had one for a time I bought on ebay but never got the hang of it so I
sold it the same way. I've also played the Mexican corrido type
diatonics and similarly, with little success. It's odd because I play
the harmonica reasonably well.
My brain's wiring does not fit the diatonics, either. The
English system is fully chromatic, typically 3-1/2 octaves (from G below
middle C to C three octaves above middle C). This is the range of the
Treble English. My preference is a Tenor-Treble -- starts a half octave
below that at the C below middle C and goes up as far as the Treble
does.

All notes on the left hand are on the lines of the staff, and
all on the right hand are on the spaces, so a run alternates hands. (It
does make it easier to pick up playing from sheet music, as does the
nice mapping of the physical position of the buttons to the lines and
spaces. There are some duplications in the accidentals, such as D# and
Eb -- on opposite hands.

But I never could get the "innie
outie" difference when it transferred to my fingers.
Those who can -- especially coming from the harmonica -- seem to
tie the bellows travel to their breathing patterns. :-)

We're also
interested in the tin whistles and anything Irish. My older son is
quite the virtuoso on the tin whistle.
Hmm ... does he happen to have one (or more) of the Copeland
tin whistles? Expensive, but worth it.

Perhaps we should drop to e-mail for this, as we are well off
topic for the newsgroup. :-)

Or -- we could move to rec.music.makers.squeezebox. :-)

Please avoid HTML and attachments when e-mailing to me.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. |http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Well, back on topic. I got home with the lathe / mill today. I'm
delighted to report that it was sitting on a little rubbermaid 5
drawer tool box that contained a treasure trove of goodies. We
haven't inventoried everything yet but there's a lot of stuff.

Good for you!! that probably will double the value of the machine.
If you don't have the full set of manuals and repair guides, email me
and I'll send them.

lady who was assigned to escort me was the very same person who used
the lathe before the plant closure. It was like she was giving up her
baby to an orphanage. Plant closures are so gut wrenching.

Well, "baby" went to a good home. I'm sure there were tears shed and
promises to keep in touch

I dug out my 1941 Machinist's Handbook this evening. I hope we can
find somebody to teach us the proper care and feeding of the lathe
before January. That's when the next junior college manual lathe
operator's course meets.

Very good. Wish there was one around here.