After a month of driving with the vents wide open in my new used car, I decided that
I had to do something about the sickly smell of pine scent. (The stink was clearly
not going to just, go away on it's own.)

OK . . . . So,,, I already had a ozonator operating on my swimming pool. So I
disconnected it from the pool and jury rigged a 6-9 volt CPU fan over the air inlet
hole and drove it with one of the many power adapters that had kicking around.
Connected both the fan and the ozonator. (Appears to simply be a rectangular air
tight
box with a blue UV?? bulb inside and a half inch air inlet hole on one end and an air

outlet hole on either end.) I ran an extension cord out to the car and let the
ozonator run for about 20 hours.

At noon the next day I opened all the windows and aired the car out really well.

When I got in and took her for a test run, I couldn't believe my nose. That sickly
sweet heavy pine scent was gone and nothing else was left behind. Just a totally
neutral odor,,, NOTHING! The smell of death was gone!

Now the metal working related question! If I let this run in the background in my
shop to get rid of the smell from rancid oil etc. would it build to unsafe
concentrations of ozone. It's a fairly large room (24 x 24)

Thanks

"Bill Alliston" wrote in message
...
After a month of driving with the vents wide open in my new used car, I
decided that
I had to do something about the sickly smell of pine scent. (The stink was
clearly
not going to just, go away on it's own.)

OK . . . . So,,, I already had a ozonator operating on my swimming pool.
So I
disconnected it from the pool and jury rigged a 6-9 volt CPU fan over the
air inlet
hole and drove it with one of the many power adapters that had kicking
around.
Connected both the fan and the ozonator. (Appears to simply be a
rectangular air
tight
box with a blue UV?? bulb inside and a half inch air inlet hole on one end
and an air

outlet hole on either end.) I ran an extension cord out to the car and
let the
ozonator run for about 20 hours.

At noon the next day I opened all the windows and aired the car out really
well.

When I got in and took her for a test run, I couldn't believe my nose.
That sickly
sweet heavy pine scent was gone and nothing else was left behind. Just a
totally
neutral odor,,, NOTHING! The smell of death was gone!

Now the metal working related question! If I let this run in the
background in my
shop to get rid of the smell from rancid oil etc. would it build to unsafe
concentrations of ozone. It's a fairly large room (24 x 24)

Thanks

ozone is really bad for a lot of plastics.

"Bill Alliston" wrote: (clip) If I let this run in the background in my
shop to get rid of the smell from rancid oil etc. would it build to unsafe
concentrations of ozone. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I don't think so. Ozone is O3, which is unstable. It breaks down into O2
and a free oxygen ion, which combines with the smelly stuff, or with another
oxygen ion, to form O2. Ozone has a characteristic odor, which you can
sometimes smell around sparking electric motors and such. If you start to
notice that odor in your shop, turn off the ozonator and wait a while.

"Bill Alliston" wrote in message
...
Now the metal working related question! If I let this run in the
background in my
shop to get rid of the smell from rancid oil etc. would it build to unsafe
concentrations of ozone. It's a fairly large room (24 x 24)

DAGS

http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemi...ealth_ozo.html

....judge for yourself

larry

Don't run it for a long time. Ozone will eat up most plastics. Vinyl will
turn brittle rather quickly.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Bill Alliston" wrote in message
...
After a month of driving with the vents wide open in my new used car, I
decided that
I had to do something about the sickly smell of pine scent. (The stink was
clearly
not going to just, go away on it's own.)

OK . . . . So,,, I already had a ozonator operating on my swimming pool.
So I
disconnected it from the pool and jury rigged a 6-9 volt CPU fan over the
air inlet
hole and drove it with one of the many power adapters that had kicking
around.
Connected both the fan and the ozonator. (Appears to simply be a
rectangular air
tight
box with a blue UV?? bulb inside and a half inch air inlet hole on one end
and an air

outlet hole on either end.) I ran an extension cord out to the car and
let the
ozonator run for about 20 hours.

At noon the next day I opened all the windows and aired the car out really
well.

When I got in and took her for a test run, I couldn't believe my nose.
That sickly
sweet heavy pine scent was gone and nothing else was left behind. Just a
totally
neutral odor,,, NOTHING! The smell of death was gone!

Now the metal working related question! If I let this run in the
background in my
shop to get rid of the smell from rancid oil etc. would it build to unsafe
concentrations of ozone. It's a fairly large room (24 x 24)

Thanks

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 15:42:44 -0400, Bill Alliston
wrote:

After a month of driving with the vents wide open in my new used car, I decided that
I had to do something about the sickly smell of pine scent. (The stink was clearly
not going to just, go away on it's own.)

OK . . . . So,,, I already had a ozonator operating on my swimming pool. So I
disconnected it from the pool and jury rigged a 6-9 volt CPU fan over the air inlet
hole and drove it with one of the many power adapters that had kicking around.
Connected both the fan and the ozonator. (Appears to simply be a rectangular air
tight
box with a blue UV?? bulb inside and a half inch air inlet hole on one end and an air

outlet hole on either end.) I ran an extension cord out to the car and let the
ozonator run for about 20 hours.

At noon the next day I opened all the windows and aired the car out really well.

When I got in and took her for a test run, I couldn't believe my nose. That sickly
sweet heavy pine scent was gone and nothing else was left behind. Just a totally
neutral odor,,, NOTHING! The smell of death was gone!

Now the metal working related question! If I let this run in the background in my
shop to get rid of the smell from rancid oil etc. would it build to unsafe
concentrations of ozone. It's a fairly large room (24 x 24)

Thanks
Don't do it. Besides being really reactive with rubber and many
plastics it will also react with the living tissue in your lungs. The
extra oxygen atom combines real easy with all sorts of stuff and kills
cells. This is why your pool has an ozonator. It is a good
disinfectant. I wouldn't use it in your car again if you can help it
because it will start to damage rubber items. Like door and window
seals. It is a good deodorant, as you found out. It is used to
deodorize houses after fires, dead refrigerators that leak meat juice,
cat and dog pee, etc. But the oxide layer that stops the odors is thin
and if disturbed will start to smell again. So the houses are
deodorized and then painted to seal.
ERS

Charles, Leo, Lawrence, Glenn and Eric


Thanks Guys

The ozonator was worth it's weight in gold for me as this was an 05 model car. At first I
thought it was just the stinky evergreen tree hanging on the mirror but after the car was
bought and paid for I realized that the odor was never going to come out on it's own.

The thing is that it works amazingly well and I just wanted to relay that to the group.

Now , I had done some reading and some places it says the 03 is a very safe disinfectant
and other places where it says it is dangerous. In any case I will err on the side of
safety.

Again thank you all.

Eric R Snow wrote:

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 15:42:44 -0400, Bill Alliston
wrote:

After a month of driving with the vents wide open in my new used car, I decided that
I had to do something about the sickly smell of pine scent. (The stink was clearly
not going to just, go away on it's own.)

OK . . . . So,,, I already had a ozonator operating on my swimming pool. So I
disconnected it from the pool and jury rigged a 6-9 volt CPU fan over the air inlet
hole and drove it with one of the many power adapters that had kicking around.
Connected both the fan and the ozonator. (Appears to simply be a rectangular air
tight
box with a blue UV?? bulb inside and a half inch air inlet hole on one end and an air

outlet hole on either end.) I ran an extension cord out to the car and let the
ozonator run for about 20 hours.

At noon the next day I opened all the windows and aired the car out really well.

When I got in and took her for a test run, I couldn't believe my nose. That sickly
sweet heavy pine scent was gone and nothing else was left behind. Just a totally
neutral odor,,, NOTHING! The smell of death was gone!

Now the metal working related question! If I let this run in the background in my
shop to get rid of the smell from rancid oil etc. would it build to unsafe
concentrations of ozone. It's a fairly large room (24 x 24)

Thanks
Don't do it. Besides being really reactive with rubber and many
plastics it will also react with the living tissue in your lungs. The
extra oxygen atom combines real easy with all sorts of stuff and kills
cells. This is why your pool has an ozonator. It is a good
disinfectant. I wouldn't use it in your car again if you can help it
because it will start to damage rubber items. Like door and window
seals. It is a good deodorant, as you found out. It is used to
deodorize houses after fires, dead refrigerators that leak meat juice,
cat and dog pee, etc. But the oxide layer that stops the odors is thin
and if disturbed will start to smell again. So the houses are
deodorized and then painted to seal.
ERS

Ozone is toxic on long exposure. An oxidizing agent like SO3.
You might want to only use it periodically instead of facing consttant
exposure in your shop.
As to the car, wouldn't burning a pack of sulfur matches have done the
job easier?
MadDog

wrote:
Ozone is toxic on long exposure. An oxidizing agent like SO3.
You might want to only use it periodically instead of facing consttant
exposure in your shop.
As to the car, wouldn't burning a pack of sulfur matches have done the
job easier?
MadDog

Does that remove smells or just cover them up?

wrote:

Ozone is toxic on long exposure. An oxidizing agent like SO3.
You might want to only use it periodically instead of facing consttant
exposure in your shop.
As to the car, wouldn't burning a pack of sulfur matches have done the
job easier?
MadDog

I don't know! I honestly did not think anything would get rid of the smell. The
Ozonator worked as if by magic and left no odor itself. Can't do much better then
that.

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 15:42:44 -0400, Bill Alliston
wrote:

After a month of driving with the vents wide open in my new used car, I decided that
I had to do something about the sickly smell of pine scent. (The stink was clearly
not going to just, go away on it's own.)

OK . . . . So,,, I already had a ozonator operating on my swimming pool. So I
disconnected it from the pool and jury rigged a 6-9 volt CPU fan over the air inlet
hole and drove it with one of the many power adapters that had kicking around.
Connected both the fan and the ozonator. (Appears to simply be a rectangular air
tight
box with a blue UV?? bulb inside and a half inch air inlet hole on one end and an air

outlet hole on either end.) I ran an extension cord out to the car and let the
ozonator run

I had forgotten the experiment for three days and when I opened the
door the door panel fell squarely off and shattered on the driveway.
When the fresh air hit the interior it crystallized with pretty fuss
and all fell to the floor. While vacuuming the fluff out between the
springs of where the passenger seat was the vacuum stuck to a
cardboard cut out of a tree.

LOL, 'Honey, look I told you I'd find the source of that smell.'

Now the metal working related question!

How can I keep all the exposed metal from rusting?


Reminds me again of how I ruined the step mother's car by washing it
with 50% ZEP. Dad said to clean it very good, he didn't say I
couldn't take it down to the molecular level. ooops

Really shouldn't hurt it too much, spas survive it. I just hate 03
smell and would have been worried it would somehow sick in the car.
I'd rather die from long term chlorine smell than ozone smell.

Lawrence L'Hote wrote:
"Bill Alliston" wrote in message
...

Now the metal working related question! If I let this run in the
background in my
shop to get rid of the smell from rancid oil etc. would it build to unsafe
concentrations of ozone. It's a fairly large room (24 x 24)


DAGS

http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemi...ealth_ozo.html

...judge for yourself

larry



I hope I'm not remembering this wrong, but I believe I started hearing
about a year ago that those "Ionic Breeze" air purifiers that Sharper
Image and other shops and TV ads flog put out enough ozone to be
considered by some a health hazard. Probably the same thing would apply
to their competition's air ionizing "purifiers".

In the last few weeks I've noticed that the Ionic Breeze TV ads are
touting the fact that they now have some sort of catalytic converter on
them which, If I heard it correctly, turns the ozone back into oxygen.

Regarding your "blue bulb": Years ago some home laundry dryers had a UV
"germicide bulb" in them which looked like an automotive tail lamp bulb
and ran on low voltage. It had a filament in it and I think the glass
was a type which would pass UV.

I bought one of those bulbs about 20 years ago from an appliance parts
shop, mounted it inside a soup can shield with a doorbell transformer
and dropping resistor tacked on and used it to clear those old UV
eraseable EPROM static memory chips.

It looked sort of blueish inside when lit, the couple of times I risked
one eye and peeked at it at arms length. :-)

Thanks for the mammaries,

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

SO3 is an acid anhydride gas.
It would function in this case as an oxidizing agent just
as the ozone does.
It's a whole lot easier to get and the 'acid` smell functions
as a safety warning so you don't breath it in for too long.
I believe the toxicity is higher than the ozone, (the gas goes
into solution on the moist surfaces in your lungs, O3 produces
hydrogen peroxide, SO3 - sulfuric acid), but the amount in
question would be small and the exposure short.

MadDog

wrote in message
oups.com...
Ozone is toxic on long exposure. An oxidizing agent like SO3.
You might want to only use it periodically instead of facing consttant
exposure in your shop.
As to the car, wouldn't burning a pack of sulfur matches have done the
job easier?
MadDog\

Chuckle! You mean like using Listerine mouthwash? That stinky stuff?
Frankly, I'd rather put up with bad breath---or pine scent.

Harold

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 20:33:44 -0700, the blithe spirit "Harold and
Susan Vordos" clearly indicated:


wrote in message
roups.com...
Ozone is toxic on long exposure. An oxidizing agent like SO3.
You might want to only use it periodically instead of facing consttant
exposure in your shop.
As to the car, wouldn't burning a pack of sulfur matches have done the
job easier?
MadDog\

Chuckle! You mean like using Listerine mouthwash? That stinky stuff?
Frankly, I'd rather put up with bad breath---or pine scent.

Ewwwwwwwwwwww! You gargle with Pine-Sol?

P.S: I've always loved the smell of matches lighting. Maybe it's the
sulfur lighting up the Devil in me.

--
Never ascribe to malice that which can
be adequately explained by stupidity.
---------------
www.diversify.com -- Smart Website Design

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 20:33:44 -0700, the blithe spirit "Harold and
Susan Vordos" clearly indicated:


wrote in message
roups.com...
Ozone is toxic on long exposure. An oxidizing agent like SO3.
You might want to only use it periodically instead of facing consttant
exposure in your shop.
As to the car, wouldn't burning a pack of sulfur matches have done the
job easier?
MadDog\

Chuckle! You mean like using Listerine mouthwash? That stinky
stuff?
Frankly, I'd rather put up with bad breath---or pine scent.

Ewwwwwwwwwwww! You gargle with Pine-Sol?

P.S: I've always loved the smell of matches lighting. Maybe it's the
sulfur lighting up the Devil in me.


I always looked on with disbelief when cigarette smokers would strike a
match and quickly get it to the end of their cigarette before the sulfur had
burned away. Could it be they get addicted to the burning sulfur?

As a pipe smoker (no longer), I couldn't stand the taste or smell.

Pine-Sol, the multi-use product. :-)

Harold

On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 11:11:45 -0700, the blithe spirit "Harold and
Susan Vordos" clearly indicated:

Frankly, I'd rather put up with bad breath---or pine scent.

Ewwwwwwwwwwww! You gargle with Pine-Sol?

P.S: I've always loved the smell of matches lighting. Maybe it's the
sulfur lighting up the Devil in me.

I always looked on with disbelief when cigarette smokers would strike a
match and quickly get it to the end of their cigarette before the sulfur had
burned away. Could it be they get addicted to the burning sulfur?

While I love the smell, that's where it stops. I always watched that
silly stunt (being too stupid to shield it so the toxic gases could
waft away before lighting the other toxic material which you'd ingest)
in horror, too. Yuk! I'm 17 years cig-free.


As a pipe smoker (no longer), I couldn't stand the taste or smell.

Nor could I. I quickly graduated to a butane lighter.


Pine-Sol, the multi-use product. :-)

Yum! (not)

--
Never ascribe to malice that which can
be adequately explained by stupidity.
---------------
www.diversify.com -- Smart Website Design

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 11:11:45 -0700, the blithe spirit "Harold and
Susan Vordos" clearly indicated:

Frankly, I'd rather put up with bad breath---or pine scent.

Ewwwwwwwwwwww! You gargle with Pine-Sol?

P.S: I've always loved the smell of matches lighting. Maybe it's the
sulfur lighting up the Devil in me.

I always looked on with disbelief when cigarette smokers would strike a
match and quickly get it to the end of their cigarette before the sulfur
had
burned away. Could it be they get addicted to the burning sulfur?

While I love the smell, that's where it stops. I always watched that
silly stunt (being too stupid to shield it so the toxic gases could
waft away before lighting the other toxic material which you'd ingest)
in horror, too. Yuk! I'm 17 years cig-free.

Congrats! Having been a smoker, and still owning all my pipes, which I
light or very rare occasion, I feel justified in saying there's not a more
stupid habit any thinking individual can acquire----aside from drugs.


As a pipe smoker (no longer), I couldn't stand the taste or smell.

Nor could I. I quickly graduated to a butane lighter.

I had one of those as well-----for pipes------a flame thrower, actually. .
I also had one that worked with lighter fluid. You've seen them, maybe. A
heated tube throws a long flame. Very cool. (Or is that hot?)



Pine-Sol, the multi-use product. :-)

Yum! (not)

Smells good, though.

An amusing anecdote----especially to me. I am on my second marriage,
which has endured over 28 years now, mostly due to a kind and loving woman
that accepts me, warts and all. (poor soul!)

I was never very fond of my ex-in-laws. He was a smoker, in spite of the
fact he hid behind the Mormon Church, and was, in fact, a direct descendent
of Brigham Young. I watched with great enjoyment one day as he stuck a
filtered cigarette in his mouth and lit it. Need I tell you which end he
lit?

He was nothing short of ****ed when I started laughing at him.

Given the chance, I'd have enjoyed watching him do it all over again, never
saying a word to caution him. :-)

Harold

On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 21:23:40 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
"Harold and Susan Vordos" quickly quoth:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
in horror, too. Yuk! I'm 17 years cig-free.

Congrats! Having been a smoker, and still owning all my pipes, which I
light or very rare occasion, I feel justified in saying there's not a more
stupid habit any thinking individual can acquire----aside from drugs.

http://diversify.com/20yeartoken/


As a pipe smoker (no longer), I couldn't stand the taste or smell.

Nor could I. I quickly graduated to a butane lighter.

I had one of those as well-----for pipes------a flame thrower, actually. .

Yeah, those are tres cool.


Pine-Sol, the multi-use product. :-)

Yum! (not)

Smells good, though.

Sure does. I went back to it for my floors (PineSol wannabes need not
apply), but still use toothpaste or mouthwash for my breath, thanks.


An amusing anecdote----especially to me. I am on my second marriage,
which has endured over 28 years now, mostly due to a kind and loving woman
that accepts me, warts and all. (poor soul!)

OK, how much are you paying her?


I was never very fond of my ex-in-laws. He was a smoker, in spite of the
fact he hid behind the Mormon Church, and was, in fact, a direct descendent
of Brigham Young. I watched with great enjoyment one day as he stuck a
filtered cigarette in his mouth and lit it. Need I tell you which end he
lit?

He was nothing short of ****ed when I started laughing at him.

Given the chance, I'd have enjoyed watching him do it all over again, never
saying a word to caution him. :-)

I love watching that happen, too. I can't breathe around cigs any
more. My lily-pink lungs just don't abide the pollution no mo.

--
Never ascribe to malice that which can
be adequately explained by stupidity.
---------------
www.diversify.com -- Smart Website Design

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 21:23:40 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
"Harold and Susan Vordos" quickly quoth:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
in horror, too. Yuk! I'm 17 years cig-free.

Congrats! Having been a smoker, and still owning all my pipes, which I
light or very rare occasion, I feel justified in saying there's not a
more
stupid habit any thinking individual can acquire----aside from drugs.

http://diversify.com/20yeartoken/

Way cool!

I'm one of the lucky folks that can take or leave liquor. I might go a
month with not so much as a sip of wine---or might enjoy a couple scotch and
water while I listen to my favorite music, jazz (Brubeck, MJQ, Oscar
Peterson). I have, however, been around those that can't leave it
alone. Not a pretty sight.


As a pipe smoker (no longer), I couldn't stand the taste or smell.

Nor could I. I quickly graduated to a butane lighter.

I had one of those as well-----for pipes------a flame thrower, actually.
..

Yeah, those are tres cool.


Pine-Sol, the multi-use product. :-)

Yum! (not)

Smells good, though.

Sure does. I went back to it for my floors (PineSol wannabes need not
apply), but still use toothpaste or mouthwash for my breath, thanks.

OK, I admit------I don't gargle with it-----I just like the smell of pine.


An amusing anecdote----especially to me. I am on my second marriage,
which has endured over 28 years now, mostly due to a kind and loving
woman
that accepts me, warts and all. (poor soul!)

OK, how much are you paying her?

Ha! Only everything I am and own. :-)



I was never very fond of my ex-in-laws. He was a smoker, in spite of
the
fact he hid behind the Mormon Church, and was, in fact, a direct
descendent
of Brigham Young. I watched with great enjoyment one day as he stuck
a
filtered cigarette in his mouth and lit it. Need I tell you which end he
lit?

He was nothing short of ****ed when I started laughing at him.

Given the chance, I'd have enjoyed watching him do it all over again,
never
saying a word to caution him. :-)

I love watching that happen, too. I can't breathe around cigs any
more. My lily-pink lungs just don't abide the pollution no mo.

I can't stand being around cigarette smoke, or smokers. They don't seem to
understand how badly they smell-----and they do smell.

On the other hand, I love the smell of a cigar or pipe, especially when not
in confined quarters. An elderly gentleman used to smoke Rum & Maple
tobacco at Sperry, always in the same two pipes, which were Kaywoodie white
briars. I'd follow him around the plant just to smell the smoke.

Don't know how he stood the tobacco, though. I tried it for a couple days
and started spitting up blood. It was the harshest tobacco I ever tried.
Anyone that smokes a pipe understands how they bite.

Harold

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:


I can't stand being around cigarette smoke, or smokers. They don't seem to
understand how badly they smell-----and they do smell.

Oh call a spade a spade. They DON'T smell, they STINK.



jk

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:27:01 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, jk
quickly quoth:

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:

I can't stand being around cigarette smoke, or smokers. They don't seem to
understand how badly they smell-----and they do smell.

Oh call a spade a spade. They DON'T smell, they STINK.

When people ask why I don't smoke any more I tell them the truth:
"I NEVER want to stink like a _dirty ashtray_ again."

----
A mostly meat-powered woodworker, and proud of it.
http://diversify.com Website Application Programming

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:27:01 -0700, jk wrote:

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:


I can't stand being around cigarette smoke, or smokers. They don't seem to
understand how badly they smell-----and they do smell.

Oh call a spade a spade. They DON'T smell, they STINK.



jk

Not to a smoker.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 19:46:12 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:27:01 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, jk
quickly quoth:

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:

I can't stand being around cigarette smoke, or smokers. They don't seem to
understand how badly they smell-----and they do smell.

Oh call a spade a spade. They DON'T smell, they STINK.

When people ask why I don't smoke any more I tell them the truth:
"I NEVER want to stink like a _dirty ashtray_ again."

Chuckle...I stink like a diry ashtry and high sulpher cutting oil,
with a dash of Old used cutting oil with mold and fungus and burned
drive belts.

I was standing in line at the bank some while back..and the pretty
little thing behind me tugged on my arm and asked if I was a
machinist..as I smelled just like her dad did. We had lunch a week
later........

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:27:01 -0700, jk wrote:

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:


I can't stand being around cigarette smoke, or smokers. They don't seem
to
understand how badly they smell-----and they do smell.

Oh call a spade a spade. They DON'T smell, they STINK.



jk

Not to a smoker.

Gunner

Yep! As much as I detest the smell of cigarette smoke, being around a pipe
or cigar smoker is like roses to me.

Harold

Let the record show that Gunner wrote back on
Thu, 15 Sep 2005 13:44:31 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:27:01 -0700, jk wrote:

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:


I can't stand being around cigarette smoke, or smokers. They don't seem to
understand how badly they smell-----and they do smell.

Oh call a spade a spade. They DON'T smell, they STINK.



jk

Not to a smoker.

What is funny is how cigarette smokers will anathematize cigar smokers.
:-)


--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

In article ,
pyotr filipivich wrote:

Let the record show that Gunner wrote back on
Thu, 15 Sep 2005 13:44:31 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:27:01 -0700, jk wrote:

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:


I can't stand being around cigarette smoke, or smokers. They don't seem to
understand how badly they smell-----and they do smell.

Oh call a spade a spade. They DON'T smell, they STINK.



jk

Not to a smoker.

What is funny is how cigarette smokers will anathematize cigar smokers.
:-)

Being a smoker, I can tell you that cigars are just plain evil. Put one
cigar sucker in a roomful of cigarette smokers puffing away, and the
cigar *WILL* overwhelm the cigarettes.

Never mind that I've always thought cigars smelled about like burning
****.

It has always amazed me how bad cigars smell, when, at least in theory,
they're the same stuff as cigarettes, going through the same process,
albeit in a larger width.

--
Don Bruder - - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html for full details.

Let the record show that Don Bruder wrote back on Fri,
16 Sep 2005 23:24:28 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :
In article ,
pyotr filipivich wrote:

Let the record show that Gunner wrote back on
Thu, 15 Sep 2005 13:44:31 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:27:01 -0700, jk wrote:

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:


I can't stand being around cigarette smoke, or smokers. They don't seem to
understand how badly they smell-----and they do smell.

Oh call a spade a spade. They DON'T smell, they STINK.



jk

Not to a smoker.

What is funny is how cigarette smokers will anathematize cigar smokers.
:-)

Being a smoker, I can tell you that cigars are just plain evil. Put one
cigar sucker in a roomful of cigarette smokers puffing away, and the
cigar *WILL* overwhelm the cigarettes.

Never mind that I've always thought cigars smelled about like burning
****.

It has always amazed me how bad cigars smell, when, at least in theory,
they're the same stuff as cigarettes, going through the same process,
albeit in a larger width.

And hey are not cheap either.

--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:27:01 -0700, jk wrote:

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:


I can't stand being around cigarette smoke, or smokers. They don't seem to
understand how badly they smell-----and they do smell.

Oh call a spade a spade. They DON'T smell, they STINK.

Do preserve your sensibilities by assiduously avoiding those who might
olefactorily offend you. That might include some highly skilled
people, oh well! That will include most Japanese since they are
smokers, and VietNamese and folks from India due to dietary
preferences.

A V.C. sniper could smell your pristine odor at some distance
depeding some on breeze. So can game. Stalkers of the cong ate
what they must (yechhh) to be olefactorily invisible. That
doesn't mean no stink, just camo stink AKA olefactory camo.

I am a smoker. Some folks are surprised to learn that because they
detect no odor. I'm still careful about odor, old habit. But I
may be stinky to you. Oh well. Guess I won't be visiting anytime
soon, no loss to you.

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 21:53:06 GMT, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Let the record show that Gunner wrote back on
Thu, 15 Sep 2005 13:44:31 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:27:01 -0700, jk wrote:

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:


I can't stand being around cigarette smoke, or smokers. They don't seem to
understand how badly they smell-----and they do smell.

Oh call a spade a spade. They DON'T smell, they STINK.



jk

Not to a smoker.

What is funny is how cigarette smokers will anathematize cigar smokers.
:-)

It depends on the cigar. If its Old Ropa...indeed. If its a
Partagas..right pleasent.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 23:24:28 GMT, Don Bruder wrote:

In article ,
pyotr filipivich wrote:

Let the record show that Gunner wrote back on
Thu, 15 Sep 2005 13:44:31 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:27:01 -0700, jk wrote:

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:


I can't stand being around cigarette smoke, or smokers. They don't seem to
understand how badly they smell-----and they do smell.

Oh call a spade a spade. They DON'T smell, they STINK.



jk

Not to a smoker.

What is funny is how cigarette smokers will anathematize cigar smokers.
:-)

Being a smoker, I can tell you that cigars are just plain evil. Put one
cigar sucker in a roomful of cigarette smokers puffing away, and the
cigar *WILL* overwhelm the cigarettes.

Never mind that I've always thought cigars smelled about like burning
****.

It has always amazed me how bad cigars smell, when, at least in theory,
they're the same stuff as cigarettes, going through the same process,
albeit in a larger width.


Hand rolled on the virgin thighs of 13yr old Guatamalan girls. Then
run through the Clinton Humidor...her 30 yr old clapped out hooker
mom.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 01:58:58 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:27:01 -0700, jk wrote:

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:


I can't stand being around cigarette smoke, or smokers. They don't seem to
understand how badly they smell-----and they do smell.

Oh call a spade a spade. They DON'T smell, they STINK.

Do preserve your sensibilities by assiduously avoiding those who might
olefactorily offend you. That might include some highly skilled
people, oh well! That will include most Japanese since they are
smokers, and VietNamese and folks from India due to dietary
preferences.

A V.C. sniper could smell your pristine odor at some distance
depeding some on breeze. So can game. Stalkers of the cong ate
what they must (yechhh) to be olefactorily invisible. That
doesn't mean no stink, just camo stink AKA olefactory camo.

An American sniper could too. So they ate what the enemy ate. Your
skin winds up smelling the same, as do you farts and your turds look
the same as the enemies. It takes about 3 days of a steady diet of
"native" chow to start smelling like a native. 5 days is better.

I am a smoker. Some folks are surprised to learn that because they
detect no odor. I'm still careful about odor, old habit. But I
may be stinky to you. Oh well. Guess I won't be visiting anytime
soon, no loss to you.

Mi casa, su casa.

Its a smoking area.

Gunner





"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 07:29:54 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
Asch quickly quoth:

Being a smoker, I can tell you that cigars are just plain evil. Put one
cigar sucker in a roomful of cigarette smokers puffing away, and the
cigar *WILL* overwhelm the cigarettes.

Too true! gag


Never mind that I've always thought cigars smelled about like burning
****.

Me, too.


It has always amazed me how bad cigars smell, when, at least in theory,
they're the same stuff as cigarettes, going through the same process,
albeit in a larger width.

Don't they have dozens of other/different chemicals put on them?
Different from the dozens put on ciggybacco.


Hand rolled on the virgin thighs of 13yr old Guatamalan girls. Then
run through the Clinton Humidor...her 30 yr old clapped out hooker
mom.

I've always kidded cigar smokers that cigars were how they recycled
the spare skin from a circumcision. You oughta see some of the
reactions. heh, heh, heh

On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 05:48:01 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 07:29:54 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
Asch quickly quoth:

Being a smoker, I can tell you that cigars are just plain evil. Put one
cigar sucker in a roomful of cigarette smokers puffing away, and the
cigar *WILL* overwhelm the cigarettes.

Too true! gag


Never mind that I've always thought cigars smelled about like burning
****.

Me, too.


It has always amazed me how bad cigars smell, when, at least in theory,
they're the same stuff as cigarettes, going through the same process,
albeit in a larger width.

Don't they have dozens of other/different chemicals put on them?
Different from the dozens put on ciggybacco.


Hand rolled on the virgin thighs of 13yr old Guatamalan girls. Then
run through the Clinton Humidor...her 30 yr old clapped out hooker
mom.

I've always kidded cigar smokers that cigars were how they recycled
the spare skin from a circumcision. You oughta see some of the
reactions. heh, heh, heh

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 10:50:18 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
Asch quickly quoth:

On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 01:58:58 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

A V.C. sniper could smell your pristine odor at some distance
depeding some on breeze. So can game. Stalkers of the cong ate
what they must (yechhh) to be olefactorily invisible. That
doesn't mean no stink, just camo stink AKA olefactory camo.

An American sniper could too. So they ate what the enemy ate. Your
skin winds up smelling the same, as do you farts and your turds look
the same as the enemies. It takes about 3 days of a steady diet of
"native" chow to start smelling like a native. 5 days is better.

I'm sure the non-smoking Cong could smell the smokers from a mile
off, too. I know I can smell a smoker (without a cig) from 50' in
an enclosed area and a smoker (with a cig) from a few blocks away.

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 01:58:58 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:27:01 -0700, jk wrote:

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:


I can't stand being around cigarette smoke, or smokers. They don't
seem to
understand how badly they smell-----and they do smell.

Oh call a spade a spade. They DON'T smell, they STINK.

Do preserve your sensibilities by assiduously avoiding those who might
olefactorily offend you. That might include some highly skilled
people, oh well! That will include most Japanese since they are
smokers, and VietNamese and folks from India due to dietary
preferences.

A V.C. sniper could smell your pristine odor at some distance
depeding some on breeze. So can game. Stalkers of the cong ate
what they must (yechhh) to be olefactorily invisible. That
doesn't mean no stink, just camo stink AKA olefactory camo.

An American sniper could too. So they ate what the enemy ate. Your
skin winds up smelling the same, as do you farts and your turds look
the same as the enemies. It takes about 3 days of a steady diet of
"native" chow to start smelling like a native. 5 days is better.

I am a smoker. Some folks are surprised to learn that because they
detect no odor. I'm still careful about odor, old habit. But I
may be stinky to you. Oh well. Guess I won't be visiting anytime
soon, no loss to you.

Mi casa, su casa.

Its a smoking area.

Gunner

What I find interesting is the strong hold tobacco has on smokers. I'll be
perfectly honest and say that I liked smoking my pipes, but the health
issues associated with tobacco were very instrumental in my quitting.
Because I never smoked cigarettes, I didn't inhale (very little, anyway),
but I was still very concerned about the possibility of cancer---mouth,
throat and stomach, which, for pipe smokers, is a serious concern.

It seems odd to me that well educated, brilliant people (RCM people) still
gamble on that issue. There's no doubt about the connection between poor
health and tobacco-----which has no redeeming qualities as near as I can
tell. Considering the price today, I'm totally mystified why smokers don't
quit and enjoy better health and wealth. I love the people, hate their
habit.

Comments?

Harold

On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 11:18:31 -0700, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:


What I find interesting is the strong hold tobacco has on smokers.


What I find interesting is the strong hold

1. Motorcycles
2. Sky diving
3. Rock climbing
4. Unprotected sex
5. yada
6.Yada
7.Yada

You get the picture.


Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Let the record show that Gunner Asch wrote back on
Sat, 17 Sep 2005 07:28:22 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 21:53:06 GMT, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Let the record show that Gunner wrote:
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:27:01 -0700, jk wrote:
"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:
I can't stand being around cigarette smoke, or smokers. They don't seem to
understand how badly they smell-----and they do smell.

Oh call a spade a spade. They DON'T smell, they STINK.

Not to a smoker.

What is funny is how cigarette smokers will anathematize cigar smokers.
:-)

It depends on the cigar. If its Old Ropa...indeed. If its a
Partagas..right pleasent.

I recall a Mike Royko column, wherein he wrote of being in a restaurant
and having his dinner disturbed at some self-righteous idiot who was going
on at great length about her personal life. She wouldn't shut up, or
change the subject, or even lower her voice, not even when asked.
So after dinner, he produced a cigar, and immediately, She was alert to
the possibility of the Least Pollution of Her Personal Environment by Death
Dealing Tobacco Smoke. Mike proceeded to just roll the cigar in his
fingers, all the while telling the raunchiest dirty jokes he could think
of, but using clinical language so there wasn't anything 'vuglar' about it.
How to be really annoying, in two easy lessons. Also helps if you have
a vocabulary more expressive than "f*ing mo-fo!"


tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
TV NEWS: Yesterday's newspaper read to the illiterate.

On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 11:18:31 -0700, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 01:58:58 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:27:01 -0700, jk wrote:

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:


I can't stand being around cigarette smoke, or smokers. They don't
seem to
understand how badly they smell-----and they do smell.

Oh call a spade a spade. They DON'T smell, they STINK.

Do preserve your sensibilities by assiduously avoiding those who might
olefactorily offend you. That might include some highly skilled
people, oh well! That will include most Japanese since they are
smokers, and VietNamese and folks from India due to dietary
preferences.

A V.C. sniper could smell your pristine odor at some distance
depeding some on breeze. So can game. Stalkers of the cong ate
what they must (yechhh) to be olefactorily invisible. That
doesn't mean no stink, just camo stink AKA olefactory camo.

An American sniper could too. So they ate what the enemy ate. Your
skin winds up smelling the same, as do you farts and your turds look
the same as the enemies. It takes about 3 days of a steady diet of
"native" chow to start smelling like a native. 5 days is better.

I am a smoker. Some folks are surprised to learn that because they
detect no odor. I'm still careful about odor, old habit. But I
may be stinky to you. Oh well. Guess I won't be visiting anytime
soon, no loss to you.

Mi casa, su casa.

Its a smoking area.

Gunner

What I find interesting is the strong hold tobacco has on smokers. I'll be
perfectly honest and say that I liked smoking my pipes, but the health
issues associated with tobacco were very instrumental in my quitting.
Because I never smoked cigarettes, I didn't inhale (very little, anyway),
but I was still very concerned about the possibility of cancer---mouth,
throat and stomach, which, for pipe smokers, is a serious concern.

It seems odd to me that well educated, brilliant people (RCM people) still
gamble on that issue. There's no doubt about the connection between poor
health and tobacco-----which has no redeeming qualities as near as I can
tell. Considering the price today, I'm totally mystified why smokers don't
quit and enjoy better health and wealth. I love the people, hate their
habit.

Comments?

Harold

Because Harold, so many smokers started when young ( E.G.I started
regularly at age 13) that it's extremely hard to quit for many of
them. I smoked for over 20 years before I managed to quit. And I tried
several times. Three friends of mine who are alcoholics and have quit
drinking all had a much harder time giving up cigs. One still hasn't
been able to quit. And nicotine has a really strong hold on some
folks. I think even Richard Feynman was a smoker.
ERS

In article ,
"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:


What I find interesting is the strong hold tobacco has on smokers. I'll be
perfectly honest and say that I liked smoking my pipes, but the health
issues associated with tobacco were very instrumental in my quitting.
Because I never smoked cigarettes, I didn't inhale (very little, anyway),
but I was still very concerned about the possibility of cancer---mouth,
throat and stomach, which, for pipe smokers, is a serious concern.

It seems odd to me that well educated, brilliant people (RCM people) still
gamble on that issue. There's no doubt about the connection between poor
health and tobacco-----which has no redeeming qualities as near as I can
tell. Considering the price today, I'm totally mystified why smokers don't
quit and enjoy better health and wealth. I love the people, hate their
habit.

Comments?

It's quite simple: Addiction plus habit.

Habit is bad enough on its own.
Addiction is also plenty bad.

Put them together, and you've got a recipe for relapse.

Some of us have the habit.
My mother, the rapidly anti-smoking ex-smoker, would be one example of
that type. After 20-odd years of pack-and-a-half a day, she put 'em
down, and said "that's that". She took up needlework (particularly
knitting), and never showed sign one of any sort of withdrawal.

Some of us have the addiction.
My stepfather, who mother badgered into quitting along with her. He had
no problem with "replacing" the habit, as he's always been intensely
"hands on everything" anyway. But boy, did he get the sweat-dribbling,
shaking, mood-swinging "OHMYGODINEEDACIGARETTENOWDAMMIT!" withdrawal
syndrome kicking his ass for days.

Some of us have both.
Me. Just shy of two packs a day for the last 20 years. Habit up the
wazoo (No other way to explain going out to the car to get a pack of
butts out of the console, lighting one on the way back into the house,
then realizing there's one burning in the ashtray - and yes, I do use
the oversized "safety" ashtrays, for exactly that reason) Addiction -
I've made a serious effort at quitting three times now. All three have
ended with people who had to share space with me for some reason buying
me a pack and telling me to light up or get out within 48 hours of my
last butt. I turn into a raving mess without nicotine. People have
described me as intolerable to be around if I don't have it. And I
understand why - I become a strung-out junkie, and there's no other
nicer way to put it. My temper (what little there is of it to begin
with...) goes completely out the window, and things go downhill from
there - cramps, shaking and sweats, the "creepy-crawlies" on/under the
skin, the ever popular green-apple two-step - The only thing I haven't
noticed from trying to quit tobacco is hallucinations and vomiting.
Otherwise, it's a full-blown case of the screaming heebee-jeebees.

Between the two, I currently don't hold much hope for getting rid of the
damned things, though I wish I could. I managed to cold-turkey off
ritalyn years ago - Four days of being afraid I was going to die,
immediately followed by about two weeks of wishing I'd died back on
about day two - I got "the works" from that... the critters, the
projectile vomiting, the demons and even less-namable shapes jumping
around and screaming at me non-stop... It was truly ugly. I didn't find
out until afterwards that it's classed as being just slightly less
addictive than heroin or cocaine, but being out of it, with no realistic
source, I got through it. I managed to get off that, but cigarettes seem
to have me by the balls.

--
Don Bruder - - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html for full details.