I stopped by all the parts stores today (four of them) where all they had
were the flat inside patches and "rope" outside patches. Same with the big
box stores.

Looks like I have to get my patch plugs online, but I don't need a box of
five hundred. Five would do me well for the next couple of years or so.

Where do you buy small quantities of patch plugs to repair passenger car
tires?

On 10/24/2017 8:23 AM, Blake Snyder wrote:
I stopped by all the parts stores today (four of them) where all they had
were the flat inside patches and "rope" outside patches. Same with the big
box stores.

Looks like I have to get my patch plugs online, but I don't need a box of
five hundred. Five would do me well for the next couple of years or so.

Where do you buy small quantities of patch plugs to repair passenger car
tires?


If I assume correctly that the plugs you mention must be inserted from
inside the tubeless tire after breaking the bead and removing the tire
from the wheel, I believe I have the answer to both your questions:

a) you can't find smaller quantities because the folks that use them
(the most) are shops with the proper (read expensive) equipment. It's
not generally a DIY thing.

b) which would tell me that if I wanted or could go through the hassle
of removing the tire from the wheel and using these patches, I should
probably go a local garage that does tire repairs and offer to buy a
small quantity at a premium price. That's sometimes the cost of
indulging one's fantasies.

replying to Blake Snyder, Iggy wrote:
I'll 2nd Unquestionably Confused. No patches make your tire bulletproof and
they weren't originally made to be so either, you wouldn't be patching them.
Use both the rope and the interior patch and each repaired leak will outlive
the tire.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...s-1148258-.htm

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 08:45:29 -0500, in
aweb.com, Unquestionably
Confused wrote:

If I assume correctly that the plugs you mention must be inserted from
inside the tubeless tire after breaking the bead and removing the tire
from the wheel, I believe I have the answer to both your questions:

Yes. That's the only way to properly repair a tire at home or in the shop.

a) you can't find smaller quantities because the folks that use them
(the most) are shops with the proper (read expensive) equipment. It's
not generally a DIY thing.

The equipment to lift the vehicle, remove the tire from the vehicle, break
the bead from the rim, remove a tire from the wheel, patch it from the
inside after marking locations, check the static balance, and then put it
back is not expensive.

But I agree with you that many people don't have those tools, just as many
people don't have a table saw, or a drill press, or even a router or a
bench grinder, all of which are about the same cost for the tools.

b) which would tell me that if I wanted or could go through the hassle
of removing the tire from the wheel and using these patches, I should
probably go a local garage that does tire repairs and offer to buy a
small quantity at a premium price.

You're dead wrong.

It's so easy to change a tire that it can be more of a hassle to bring it
to the shop than it is to just change it at home, depending on how much
hassle you consider it to be to waste your time at a shop for such things
that can easily be done at home.

The only reason people don't change their own tires is simply that they
don't want to - which is fine. If I had a baby in the house, I'd have
someone else change the diapers too - but that's not because it's difficult
to do.

That's sometimes the cost of indulging one's fantasies.

I'd say your advice is extremely bad, since *none* of your assumptions are
even close to correct save for the one which is that most people don't do
it.

Just like most people don't paint their own houses, or that most people
might not maintain their own lawns or pools, I understood that well
*before* I asked the question, so your answer provided nothing new.

Who doesn't know what you seem to know, which is that most people don't
patch their own tires. Everyone knows that. You added nothing.

While I can find sources on the net for five patchplugs at a time, I was
asking for the best sources out there. I have been to the tire shops to ask
and they just give me a handful gratis, but I don't want that.

I just want to know if any of you know of a good source on the net for a
handful of patch plugs. If you don't know of a good source, there is no
sense in replying and wasting everyone's time.

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 15:14:14 GMT, in ,
Iggy wrote:

Use both the rope and the interior patch and each repaired leak will outlive
the tire.

This is good advice. It doesn't answer the question, but it provides an
alternative which would negate the need for the question. I agree.

I've done that "plug and patch" method which works well, especially after
investing in a tire knife (which is flexible skiving blade to flush cut so
that it cuts "more flush" but it's never perfect).
http://kextirerepair.com/product-images/parts_lg/929.jpg

When I used the long rubbery plugs in addition to the flat patch, that made
a prettier patch, with slightly less "bump" but I don't have any more of
the long rubbery plugs.
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/xtra-seal-5344/agriculture-hd-parts---accessories-19818/agricultural---construction-20126/tire-repair-20137/patch-plug-repair-kit-17475/insert-repairs/12114/4869847

When I tried that same method with the stringy "rope", it was much harder
to cut the rope sticking out on the inside of the tire well flush. So the
patch had a slight hump. No big deal, of course, but it's not perfect.

The "patch & plug" method you propose is the *only* method that you can
purchase at the local auto parts stores, and local big box hardware stores,
I agree.

But I picked up a handful of those patchplugs from a tire shop who handed
them to me gratis and I fell in love with them. I'm sure if I asked again,
they'd give me another handful, but I don't want that.

I just want to find a nice source for patchplugs either locally or online.

Here are some examples:
http://www.blackjacktirerepair.com/patch-plug-combi-units
https://www.amazon.com/Tru-Flate-15-296-Plug-N-Patch-Rubber-Integral/dp/B000CIUOVA
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Xtra-Seal-Universal-Combination-Tire-Plug-Patch-Repair-31-13-381-/162313768524

I am just asking if any of you have experience with purchasing the best?
--
BTW, this video is hilarious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZ-dkv8cMjQ

On 10/24/2017 09:25 AM, Blake Snyder wrote:
I just want to know if any of you know of a good source on the net for a
handful of patch plugs. If you don't know of a good source, there is no
sense in replying and wasting everyone's time.

https://www.amazon.com/Tru-Flate-15-.../dp/B000CIUOVA

On 2017-10-24, Blake Snyder wrote:

I am just asking if any of you have experience with purchasing the best?

I can tell you an "inside patch" is not the answer.

My experience:

I got a flat on the way to work. Stopped at one of many of the 'gas
stations' which still had tire service and told them, "a heated inside
patch", only! They tried twice, then did a 'plug'. The plug worked!
The 'inside hot patch' did not! I went on my way with a single
"plug".

nb

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 11:25:13 AM UTC-4, Blake Snyder wrote:
On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 08:45:29 -0500, in
aweb.com, Unquestionably
Confused wrote:

If I assume correctly that the plugs you mention must be inserted from
inside the tubeless tire after breaking the bead and removing the tire
from the wheel, I believe I have the answer to both your questions:

Yes. That's the only way to properly repair a tire at home or in the shop.

a) you can't find smaller quantities because the folks that use them
(the most) are shops with the proper (read expensive) equipment. It's
not generally a DIY thing.

The equipment to lift the vehicle, remove the tire from the vehicle, break
the bead from the rim, remove a tire from the wheel, patch it from the
inside after marking locations, check the static balance, and then put it
back is not expensive.

But I agree with you that many people don't have those tools, just as many
people don't have a table saw, or a drill press, or even a router or a
bench grinder, all of which are about the same cost for the tools.

b) which would tell me that if I wanted or could go through the hassle
of removing the tire from the wheel and using these patches, I should
probably go a local garage that does tire repairs and offer to buy a
small quantity at a premium price.

You're dead wrong.

It's so easy to change a tire that it can be more of a hassle to bring it
to the shop than it is to just change it at home, depending on how much
hassle you consider it to be to waste your time at a shop for such things
that can easily be done at home.


I do a lot of repairs, but having the equipment to break a bead on
a tire, storing it, screwing around with it, isn't on my list.
If I need that, I just go to a tire shop, where it's done quickly
and inexpensively.




The only reason people don't change their own tires is simply that they
don't want to - which is fine. If I had a baby in the house, I'd have
someone else change the diapers too - but that's not because it's difficult
to do.

That's sometimes the cost of indulging one's fantasies.

I'd say your advice is extremely bad, since *none* of your assumptions are
even close to correct save for the one which is that most people don't do
it.

Just like most people don't paint their own houses, or that most people
might not maintain their own lawns or pools, I understood that well
*before* I asked the question, so your answer provided nothing new.

I do all the above, except dismounting tires at home.





Who doesn't know what you seem to know, which is that most people don't
patch their own tires. Everyone knows that. You added nothing.

While I can find sources on the net for five patchplugs at a time, I was
asking for the best sources out there.

What makes a source the best? How many flats are you having? I've
had about two in ten years. One resulted in the loss of the tire.
The other one, I fixed with a string type plug, without taking it
off the car. That was many years ago, it's been holding fine.



I have been to the tire shops to ask
and they just give me a handful gratis, but I don't want that.

I just want to know if any of you know of a good source on the net for a
handful of patch plugs. If you don't know of a good source, there is no
sense in replying and wasting everyone's time.

You just said you have sources for five. How many is a handful?

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 09:06:05 -0700 (PDT), in
, trader_4
wrote:

I do a lot of repairs, but having the equipment to break a bead on
a tire, storing it, screwing around with it, isn't on my list.

A lot of people have a lot of yard where having the lawn mower in the shed,
storing it, screwing around with it, isn't on their list.

A lot of people have a driveway where having the equipment to maintain it,
screwing around with the tarblack, isn't on their list.

A lot of people have a pool where having the equipment to test the
chemistry, vacuum the crud, and skim the bugs isn't on their list.

We all know this.
Those people should not respond if they don't know the answer.

If I need that, I just go to a tire shop, where it's done quickly
and inexpensively.

And people with lawns hire landscapers to mow it.
And people with driveways hire asphalt guys to tarblack it.
And people with pools hire a pool company to maintain it.

Those people aren't ever going to know the answer to any related question.
They can only guess.

I can guess too. I don't want to guess.
I'd rather learn from someone who has purchased & used the patches.

For example, now that I've done perhaps 25 patches, I *know* which I like
best, and it's the patchplugs - by far. I even know *why* I like them.

Do the others work.
Yes.

I do all the above, except dismounting tires at home.

That's fine as I *know* most people don't dismount tires just like most
people don't dig their own fencepost holes.

You don't have to *like* the task. I never said you did.

The only thing I'll say, since I've done plenty of tires, is that it's so
easy that anyone who complains that it's difficult hasn't ever done it or
is an idiot who can't figure out how it's done.

Likewise, anyone who complains that the tools cost too much is merely
proving they can't do the simplest of math problems spanning the time
period of the useful life of their tools.

The real reason people don't do it is that they don't like doing it, which
is fine. Nobody is forcing anyone to like anything.

Just don't make stuff up about the job.
Just tell the truth to yourself.
And to others.

a. It's easy and convenient to fix flat tires whenever you feel like it.
b. The tools are no more expensive than any others you have in the shop.
c. It just takes a little knowledge (which many people may not ever have).

What makes a source the best?

I can tell you the best source of pool chlorine in my area if you ask me,
and it's not the big box hardware stores.

I can tell you the best brand of chainsaw to buy and you're not going to
find that brand at Sears.

I can tell you the place in town to get whiteout, but it's not going to be
at Staples or OfficeDepot.

How do I know such things?
Because of two factors inherent with this thing called "experience":
.. I have bought the *wrong* stuff and suffered because of that
.. I have bought the *right* stuff and benefited from that.

Take for example the suggestion to path and plug. I've done it.
Everyone has done it. It's so easy to do that it's the first thing you'll
try.

But once I received a bona-fide patchplug gratis from a tire shop, I was
instantly *sold* on the beauty of the thing. It's a work of art, really.

It just *feels* great to patch plug so professionally beautifully.
How do I know this?

Because I have experience in all the methods of patching a tire.

I'm only asking for people's experience.
I don't need or want guesses.

I can guess as well or better than most of you can guess.
If this thread had zero bad answers, that would be a bonus.

How many flats are you having?

I have the wife, and kids and grandkids and nearby friends, neighbors and
relatives, where I fix their flats all the time for them, gratis.

I'd guess I'm fixing about 2 a year or so at this rate, but that's only an
average as I just last week fixed two slow leaks on the same neighbor's
car. So I can go though five patches in a year, but not more than that.

The problem is that I can't plan on how many patches I will need to do
since they come in when they come in. I, myself, get about 1 flat a year
only, and often I can go for three years without a flat, but then I can get
three in a year. You can't plan these things.

A lot has to do, I think, with the fact I recycle, where you can't believe
the stuff you have to drive over to dump a truckload of stuff. Another
thing is that I help everyone in the neighborhood. And I pull over on
shoulders at times, to help people who have flats.

All these places have "debris" on the macadem, which can lodge into the
treads.

But to directly answer your question, about five patches should last me
about a year or so where I don't want to store the sticky rubber longer
than that.

I've had about two in ten years.

Good for you!
That means you don't have nearly the experience that I do.
Lucky you!

One resulted in the loss of the tire.

That's a very *deep* and *emotional* topic for many.
Ever wonder why Goodyear and Schwab and America's Tire do "free" tire flat
repair?

Ka-ching!

All follow RMA recommendations, which will fail a tire if two patches are
on the same line, if they're too close to the edge, if there is fluff
inside, if the hole is angled at greater than about 45 degrees, if the
shape isn't easily patched, if the tread is worn down to a single wear bar,
if the rim isn't in perfect condition, etc.

I would *love* know what their failure rate is for the mom-and-pop who
innocently brings their tire to be fixed for "free" and they're left
holding a rim in one hand and a tire on the other because the shop will
almost always *refuse* to put it back on the car.

Then I'd love to know how many people buy whatever tire is in inventory at
the tire shop, because they just want to get the car back on the road (a
lot depends on their willingness to use the spare but they still need the
flat fixed at some point relatively soon so they cave in to the current
hard sell at the shop because it's a PITA to bring a car to the shop for
many people).

The other one, I fixed with a string type plug, without taking it
off the car. That was many years ago, it's been holding fine.

Surprisingly, they work just fine to hold the air in and to protect the
treads from doing further damage inside the thickness.

But you don't get the same satisfaction from doing the job right.

It's the same difference as making your own salad dressing with first-press
olive oil versus buying the slop in the grocery store made out of God knows
what.

Both work fine as salad dressing - but one is done right.
And that just feels right.

You just said you have sources for five. How many is a handful?

About a year ago or so, I went to a shop to ask them where to get the black
goop they put on the *inside* of the tire, and they gave me an almost
finished can of that, plus they dug their hand into their patchplug bin
when I asked what size they use most for passenger car tire flats.

Out came five patchplugs, which I used up during the ensuing year.
I don't want to ask for freebies again and they don't sell them.

On 24 Oct 2017 15:56:50 GMT, in ,
notbob wrote:

I can tell you an "inside patch" is not the answer.

My experience:

I got a flat on the way to work. Stopped at one of many of the 'gas
stations' which still had tire service and told them, "a heated inside
patch", only! They tried twice, then did a 'plug'. The plug worked!
The 'inside hot patch' did not! I went on my way with a single
"plug".

nb

In the olden days, they use the flame-vulcanized patches, but that's before
my time AFAIK. They might still use heat vulcanization, but I read every
RMA document I could and I have many times talked to the RMA reps, where
they never recommended heat-cured patch processes to me.

The correct process is pretty simple though and works just fine.

1. Inspect the tire for the myriad things that can fail it.
(Note that this can't be done without removing the tire from the rim.)
2. Prepare the tire using all the normal methods.
3. Patchplug the tire from the inside (and test).

It's so easy to do right that the main reason people don't do it at home is
simply that they don't want to, which is just fine, but those people who
don't do it won't have the answer to the question.

Anyone can just guess.
I can guess even better than most people.

But I wasn't asking for a guess.
I was asking for experience.

On 10/24/2017 12:48 PM, Blake Snyder wrote:


We all know this.
Those people should not respond if they don't know the answer.

If I need that, I just go to a tire shop, where it's done quickly
and inexpensively.

And people with lawns hire landscapers to mow it.
And people with driveways hire asphalt guys to tarblack it.
And people with pools hire a pool company to maintain it.

Those people aren't ever going to know the answer to any related question.
They can only guess.

I can guess too. I don't want to guess.
I'd rather learn from someone who has purchased & used the patches.

For example, now that I've done perhaps 25 patches, I *know* which I like
best, and it's the patchplugs - by far. I even know *why* I like them.

Do the others work.
Yes.

I do all the above, except dismounting tires at home.

That's fine as I *know* most people don't dismount tires just like most
people don't dig their own fencepost holes.

You don't have to *like* the task. I never said you did.

The only thing I'll say, since I've done plenty of tires, is that it's so
easy that anyone who complains that it's difficult hasn't ever done it or
is an idiot who can't figure out how it's done.

Likewise, anyone who complains that the tools cost too much is merely
proving they can't do the simplest of math problems spanning the time
period of the useful life of their tools.

The real reason people don't do it is that they don't like doing it, which
is fine. Nobody is forcing anyone to like anything.

Just don't make stuff up about the job.
Just tell the truth to yourself.
And to others.

a. It's easy and convenient to fix flat tires whenever you feel like it.
b. The tools are no more expensive than any others you have in the shop.
c. It just takes a little knowledge (which many people may not ever have).

What makes a source the best?

I can tell you the best source of pool chlorine in my area if you ask me,
and it's not the big box hardware stores.

I can tell you the best brand of chainsaw to buy and you're not going to
find that brand at Sears.

I can tell you the place in town to get whiteout, but it's not going to be
at Staples or OfficeDepot.

How do I know such things?
Because of two factors inherent with this thing called "experience":
. I have bought the *wrong* stuff and suffered because of that
. I have bought the *right* stuff and benefited from that.

Take for example the suggestion to path and plug. I've done it.
Everyone has done it. It's so easy to do that it's the first thing you'll
try.

But once I received a bona-fide patchplug gratis from a tire shop, I was
instantly *sold* on the beauty of the thing. It's a work of art, really.

It just *feels* great to patch plug so professionally beautifully.
How do I know this?

Because I have experience in all the methods of patching a tire.

I'm only asking for people's experience.
I don't need or want guesses.


I'm truly impressed. You have a nice set of rules as to who can reply
to you and you also have experience patching tires. Not may of us have
your ability and yes, we are in awe of you.

I admit, I've never changed car tire. I just don't have your skills
and ability so I won't go beyond fixing bicycle tires. Well, not the
actual tire but the tube inside of it.

Thank you for sharing your wisdom.

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 12:48:48 PM UTC-4, Blake Snyder wrote:


I do all the above, except dismounting tires at home.

That's fine as I *know* most people don't dismount tires just like most
people don't dig their own fencepost holes.

The difference of course is that a hole digger is about the size of a
shovel, sits easily in the corner, and doesn't have to be mounted to
the garage floor. Tire changing eqpt is large, bulky and does have
to be floor mounted. And if I had the need to dig a bunch of holes,
I'd rent a power tool.




You don't have to *like* the task. I never said you did.

The only thing I'll say, since I've done plenty of tires, is that it's so
easy that anyone who complains that it's difficult hasn't ever done it or
is an idiot who can't figure out how it's done.

Likewise, anyone who complains that the tools cost too much is merely
proving they can't do the simplest of math problems spanning the time
period of the useful life of their tools.

It's not the cost, it's the size, bulkiness, they need to be mounted
to the garage floor. And then that you need to BALANCE the tires
after they are mounted. What's the point to having the eqpt to mount
tires, when that's only half of the process?




The real reason people don't do it is that they don't like doing it, which
is fine. Nobody is forcing anyone to like anything.

Just don't make stuff up about the job.

I didn't make up anything.



Just tell the truth to yourself.
And to others.

a. It's easy and convenient to fix flat tires whenever you feel like it.
b. The tools are no more expensive than any others you have in the shop.
c. It just takes a little knowledge (which many people may not ever have).

What makes a source the best?

I can tell you the best source of pool chlorine in my area if you ask me,
and it's not the big box hardware stores.

I can tell you the best brand of chainsaw to buy and you're not going to
find that brand at Sears.

I can tell you the place in town to get whiteout, but it's not going to be
at Staples or OfficeDepot.

How do I know such things?

The simple question was what makes a source for your patch plugs a good
one. You said you've gotten handfuls from local shops for free, you
said you know where to buy them 5 at a time online. So, what's the
problem? Without knowing what criteria are required, it can't be
answered.




Because of two factors inherent with this thing called "experience":
. I have bought the *wrong* stuff and suffered because of that
. I have bought the *right* stuff and benefited from that.

Take for example the suggestion to path and plug. I've done it.
Everyone has done it. It's so easy to do that it's the first thing you'll
try.

It's not my first thing. My first thing for a simple nail is a rope
type plug, without taking the tire off the car. Been there, done it,
it works.



But once I received a bona-fide patchplug gratis from a tire shop, I was
instantly *sold* on the beauty of the thing. It's a work of art, really.

It just *feels* great to patch plug so professionally beautifully.
How do I know this?

Because I have experience in all the methods of patching a tire.

If you're so experienced, why don't you know where to source the
patch plugs?

On 10/24/2017 1:20 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 12:48:48 PM UTC-4, Blake Snyder wrote:


I do all the above, except dismounting tires at home.

That's fine as I *know* most people don't dismount tires just like most
people don't dig their own fencepost holes.

The difference of course is that a hole digger is about the size of a
shovel, sits easily in the corner, and doesn't have to be mounted to
the garage floor. Tire changing eqpt is large, bulky and does have
to be floor mounted. And if I had the need to dig a bunch of holes,
I'd rent a power tool.



Last time I had a tire plugged/patched is about 5 years ago. In 56
years and 25 cars of driving I'd not paid out enough for tire repairs to
justify buying any equipment. I do have a tire pressure gauge though.

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 1:35:38 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 10/24/2017 1:20 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 12:48:48 PM UTC-4, Blake Snyder wrote:


I do all the above, except dismounting tires at home.

That's fine as I *know* most people don't dismount tires just like most
people don't dig their own fencepost holes.

The difference of course is that a hole digger is about the size of a
shovel, sits easily in the corner, and doesn't have to be mounted to
the garage floor. Tire changing eqpt is large, bulky and does have
to be floor mounted. And if I had the need to dig a bunch of holes,
I'd rent a power tool.



Last time I had a tire plugged/patched is about 5 years ago. In 56
years and 25 cars of driving I'd not paid out enough for tire repairs to
justify buying any equipment. I do have a tire pressure gauge though.

Similar experience here. I've had about 3 tire problems in maybe 15
years. One was when I drove over a short piece of nipple type pipe
on the road, it instantly deflated it. That was the end of that tire.
The other two were simple nails in the middle of the tread. Fixed
both of those with the rope type plugs and they held up fine.

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 13:23:26 -0000 (UTC), Blake Snyder
wrote:

I stopped by all the parts stores today (four of them) where all they had
were the flat inside patches and "rope" outside patches. Same with the big
box stores.

Looks like I have to get my patch plugs online, but I don't need a box of
five hundred. Five would do me well for the next couple of years or so.

Where do you buy small quantities of patch plugs to repair passenger car
tires?

I've used cylindrical, rectangular and rope type plugs. They all work as long as you run
the plug tool (or reamer) in the hole coated with fresh glue, and coat the plug with fresh
glue. I've plugged 8 or 9 tires that way, and all lasted the life of the tire.
So IMO it doesn't matter what type you use. The rope-type seems to be easier to insert.

replying to Blake Snyder, Iggy wrote:
Oh I know, I was just throwing out an idea that really is just as good and is
essentially what the pros do...I do not at all agree with the pros in overly
reaming the hole, their plugs go in entirely too loose for me. I've gone years
with no leaks on those push-in plugs, they've been successful for decades.

Just make sure you're going to actually do it right and not just slather
Vulcanizing Cement all over. You must buff, cement and over-seal like the
pros. Meaning, don't get just the plugs in your link and instead go for the
complete kit -
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Xtra-Seal-T...AVF Z&vxp=mtr

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...s-1148258-.htm

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 2:47:48 PM UTC-4, BurfordTJustice wrote:
There you go showing your ass and ignorance again...

LOL you are pathetic and like your Trump predictions
hardly ever correct.


Wow, just the other day you claimed I was never correct, now you
say it's "hardly ever". So, even by your own admission, I'm improving.
The most important prediction, the one that really mattered, I got
spot on. That was warning you trumpets that he was a narcissistic
megalomaniac, stupid, and totally unfit for the office when there
were 16 other GOP candidates to chose from.

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 2:38:10 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 2:47:48 PM UTC-4, BurfordTJustice wrote:
There you go showing your ass and ignorance again...

LOL you are pathetic and like your Trump predictions
hardly ever correct.

Wow, just the other day you claimed I was never correct, now you
say it's "hardly ever". So, even by your own admission, I'm improving.
The most important prediction, the one that really mattered, I got
spot on. That was warning you trumpets that he was a narcissistic
megalomaniac, stupid, and totally unfit for the office when there
were 16 other GOP candidates to chose from.


It's settled then Traitor_4ever. You need to take over and run the country the right way. All you have to do is show up at The White House and tell President Trump to get out of the way so you can rule America.”Œ( à²*_à²*)”˜

[8~{} Uncle Peasant Monster

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 5:49:05 PM UTC-4, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 2:38:10 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 2:47:48 PM UTC-4, BurfordTJustice wrote:
There you go showing your ass and ignorance again...

LOL you are pathetic and like your Trump predictions
hardly ever correct.

Wow, just the other day you claimed I was never correct, now you
say it's "hardly ever". So, even by your own admission, I'm improving.
The most important prediction, the one that really mattered, I got
spot on. That was warning you trumpets that he was a narcissistic
megalomaniac, stupid, and totally unfit for the office when there
were 16 other GOP candidates to chose from.


It's settled then Traitor_4ever. You need to take over and run the country the right way. All you have to do is show up at The White House and tell President Trump to get out of the way so you can rule America.”Œ( à²*_à²*)”˜

[8~{} Uncle Peasant Monster

Sorry, but I can't control the moron with mental problems any more than
any of the others who have tried. From Senator Bob Corker this morning:

"Same untruths from an utterly untruthful president." #AlertTheDaycareStaff


The daycare staff is there, alerted, the patient just doesn't respond.
Oh and Corker was one of his earliest supporters, who campaigned for
him, advised him, etc. Now he admits that was a mistake.

On 10/24/2017 7:32 PM, trader_4 wrote:


Sorry, but I can't control the moron with mental problems any more than
any of the others who have tried. From Senator Bob Corker this morning:

"Same untruths from an utterly untruthful president." #AlertTheDaycareStaff


The daycare staff is there, alerted, the patient just doesn't respond.
Oh and Corker was one of his earliest supporters, who campaigned for
him, advised him, etc. Now he admits that was a mistake.


I wonder if a few more will step up and be honest. If you are not
running for reelection it is relatively easy, now we can see if others
have the balls to be honest.

Of course, as expected, the most powerful man in the world replied like
a junior high girl with lame name calling.

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 6:32:26 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 5:49:05 PM UTC-4, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 2:38:10 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 2:47:48 PM UTC-4, BurfordTJustice wrote:
There you go showing your ass and ignorance again...

LOL you are pathetic and like your Trump predictions
hardly ever correct.

Wow, just the other day you claimed I was never correct, now you
say it's "hardly ever". So, even by your own admission, I'm improving.
The most important prediction, the one that really mattered, I got
spot on. That was warning you trumpets that he was a narcissistic
megalomaniac, stupid, and totally unfit for the office when there
were 16 other GOP candidates to chose from.

It's settled then Traitor_4ever. You need to take over and run the country the right way. All you have to do is show up at The White House and tell President Trump to get out of the way so you can rule America.”Œ( à²*_à²*)”˜

[8~{} Uncle Peasant Monster

Sorry, but I can't control the moron with mental problems any more than
any of the others who have tried. From Senator Bob Corker this morning:

"Same untruths from an utterly untruthful president." #AlertTheDaycareStaff

The daycare staff is there, alerted, the patient just doesn't respond.
Oh and Corker was one of his earliest supporters, who campaigned for
him, advised him, etc. Now he admits that was a mistake.


So Traitor_4ever, you admit that you have mental problems. That the first step on your long road to recovery. The former governor of Alabama, George Wallace once stated, "I'm not crazy, I have papers from the state mental hospital right here proving that I'm sane." Get some help Traitor_4ever before you harm yourself or others! Stay away from firearms and sharp objects. ヽ(ヅ)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Concerned Monster

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 13:23:26 -0000 (UTC), Blake Snyder
wrote:

I stopped by all the parts stores today (four of them) where all they had
were the flat inside patches and "rope" outside patches. Same with the big
box stores.

Looks like I have to get my patch plugs online, but I don't need a box of
five hundred. Five would do me well for the next couple of years or so.

Where do you buy small quantities of patch plugs to repair passenger car
tires?
Have you tried approaching your local tire repair shop????

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 15:25:09 -0000 (UTC), Blake Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 08:45:29 -0500, in
raweb.com, Unquestionably
Confused wrote:

If I assume correctly that the plugs you mention must be inserted from
inside the tubeless tire after breaking the bead and removing the tire
from the wheel, I believe I have the answer to both your questions:

Yes. That's the only way to properly repair a tire at home or in the shop.

a) you can't find smaller quantities because the folks that use them
(the most) are shops with the proper (read expensive) equipment. It's
not generally a DIY thing.

The equipment to lift the vehicle, remove the tire from the vehicle, break
the bead from the rim, remove a tire from the wheel, patch it from the
inside after marking locations, check the static balance, and then put it
back is not expensive.

But I agree with you that many people don't have those tools, just as many
people don't have a table saw, or a drill press, or even a router or a
bench grinder, all of which are about the same cost for the tools.

b) which would tell me that if I wanted or could go through the hassle
of removing the tire from the wheel and using these patches, I should
probably go a local garage that does tire repairs and offer to buy a
small quantity at a premium price.

You're dead wrong.

It's so easy to change a tire that it can be more of a hassle to bring it
to the shop than it is to just change it at home, depending on how much
hassle you consider it to be to waste your time at a shop for such things
that can easily be done at home.

The only reason people don't change their own tires is simply that they
don't want to - which is fine. If I had a baby in the house, I'd have
someone else change the diapers too - but that's not because it's difficult
to do.

That's sometimes the cost of indulging one's fantasies.

I'd say your advice is extremely bad, since *none* of your assumptions are
even close to correct save for the one which is that most people don't do
it.

Just like most people don't paint their own houses, or that most people
might not maintain their own lawns or pools, I understood that well
*before* I asked the question, so your answer provided nothing new.

Who doesn't know what you seem to know, which is that most people don't
patch their own tires. Everyone knows that. You added nothing.

While I can find sources on the net for five patchplugs at a time, I was
asking for the best sources out there. I have been to the tire shops to ask
and they just give me a handful gratis, but I don't want that.

I just want to know if any of you know of a good source on the net for a
handful of patch plugs. If you don't know of a good source, there is no
sense in replying and wasting everyone's time.
The big question is WHY DO YOU WANT TO BUY THE DAMNED THINGS ONLINE?
Buy them locally from local tire repairshop. If they want to give them
to you, contribute to their coffee fund.

I know from personal experience that "snyder" translates to
"stubborn" - but the condition isn't incurable or terminal.

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 15:39:25 -0000 (UTC), Blake Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 15:14:14 GMT, in ,
Iggy wrote:

Use both the rope and the interior patch and each repaired leak will outlive
the tire.

This is good advice. It doesn't answer the question, but it provides an
alternative which would negate the need for the question. I agree.

I've done that "plug and patch" method which works well, especially after
investing in a tire knife (which is flexible skiving blade to flush cut so
that it cuts "more flush" but it's never perfect).
http://kextirerepair.com/product-images/parts_lg/929.jpg

When I used the long rubbery plugs in addition to the flat patch, that made
a prettier patch, with slightly less "bump" but I don't have any more of
the long rubbery plugs.
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/xtra-seal-5344/agriculture-hd-parts---accessories-19818/agricultural---construction-20126/tire-repair-20137/patch-plug-repair-kit-17475/insert-repairs/12114/4869847

When I tried that same method with the stringy "rope", it was much harder
to cut the rope sticking out on the inside of the tire well flush. So the
patch had a slight hump. No big deal, of course, but it's not perfect.

The "patch & plug" method you propose is the *only* method that you can
purchase at the local auto parts stores, and local big box hardware stores,
I agree.

But I picked up a handful of those patchplugs from a tire shop who handed
them to me gratis and I fell in love with them. I'm sure if I asked again,
they'd give me another handful, but I don't want that.

I just want to find a nice source for patchplugs either locally or online.

Here are some examples:
http://www.blackjacktirerepair.com/patch-plug-combi-units
https://www.amazon.com/Tru-Flate-15-296-Plug-N-Patch-Rubber-Integral/dp/B000CIUOVA
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Xtra-Seal-Universal-Combination-Tire-Plug-Patch-Repair-31-13-381-/162313768524

I am just asking if any of you have experience with purchasing the best?
I buy mine from my local tire repair outlet (local garage that used
to be owned by my brother) I'd buy them from the company I used to
work for, but they've changed hands twice since I left and are farther
away. I know they are using good stuff because they buy it from the
same guys I bought them from for 20+ years in the business.

Buying online you have no idea what crap you are buying. Same with
buying from big box stores - you only KNOW it's the cheapest they
could buy.

On 24 Oct 2017 15:56:50 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2017-10-24, Blake Snyder wrote:

I am just asking if any of you have experience with purchasing the best?

I can tell you an "inside patch" is not the answer.

My experience:

I got a flat on the way to work. Stopped at one of many of the 'gas
stations' which still had tire service and told them, "a heated inside
patch", only! They tried twice, then did a 'plug'. The plug worked!
The 'inside hot patch' did not! I went on my way with a single
"plug".

nb
The only "approved" repair for a tubeless steel belted radial tire is
a plug-patch. Period.

Yrs, a plug will stop the leak, and it will "get you by" - but it can
cause carcass failure down the road. A plug plus an inside patch is
better than just a plug - but a lot more work to do it right than just
using what is designed for the job -

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 16:48:44 -0000 (UTC), Blake Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 09:06:05 -0700 (PDT), in
, trader_4
wrote:

I do a lot of repairs, but having the equipment to break a bead on
a tire, storing it, screwing around with it, isn't on my list.

A lot of people have a lot of yard where having the lawn mower in the shed,
storing it, screwing around with it, isn't on their list.

A lot of people have a driveway where having the equipment to maintain it,
screwing around with the tarblack, isn't on their list.

A lot of people have a pool where having the equipment to test the
chemistry, vacuum the crud, and skim the bugs isn't on their list.

We all know this.
Those people should not respond if they don't know the answer.

If I need that, I just go to a tire shop, where it's done quickly
and inexpensively.

And people with lawns hire landscapers to mow it.
And people with driveways hire asphalt guys to tarblack it.
And people with pools hire a pool company to maintain it.

Those people aren't ever going to know the answer to any related question.
They can only guess.

I can guess too. I don't want to guess.
I'd rather learn from someone who has purchased & used the patches.

For example, now that I've done perhaps 25 patches, I *know* which I like
best, and it's the patchplugs - by far. I even know *why* I like them.

Do the others work.
Yes.

I do all the above, except dismounting tires at home.

That's fine as I *know* most people don't dismount tires just like most
people don't dig their own fencepost holes.

You don't have to *like* the task. I never said you did.

The only thing I'll say, since I've done plenty of tires, is that it's so
easy that anyone who complains that it's difficult hasn't ever done it or
is an idiot who can't figure out how it's done.

Likewise, anyone who complains that the tools cost too much is merely
proving they can't do the simplest of math problems spanning the time
period of the useful life of their tools.

The real reason people don't do it is that they don't like doing it, which
is fine. Nobody is forcing anyone to like anything.

Just don't make stuff up about the job.
Just tell the truth to yourself.
And to others.

a. It's easy and convenient to fix flat tires whenever you feel like it.
b. The tools are no more expensive than any others you have in the shop.
c. It just takes a little knowledge (which many people may not ever have).

What makes a source the best?

I can tell you the best source of pool chlorine in my area if you ask me,
and it's not the big box hardware stores.

I can tell you the best brand of chainsaw to buy and you're not going to
find that brand at Sears.

I can tell you the place in town to get whiteout, but it's not going to be
at Staples or OfficeDepot.

How do I know such things?
Because of two factors inherent with this thing called "experience":
. I have bought the *wrong* stuff and suffered because of that
. I have bought the *right* stuff and benefited from that.

Take for example the suggestion to path and plug. I've done it.
Everyone has done it. It's so easy to do that it's the first thing you'll
try.

But once I received a bona-fide patchplug gratis from a tire shop, I was
instantly *sold* on the beauty of the thing. It's a work of art, really.

It just *feels* great to patch plug so professionally beautifully.
How do I know this?

Because I have experience in all the methods of patching a tire.

I'm only asking for people's experience.
I don't need or want guesses.

I can guess as well or better than most of you can guess.
If this thread had zero bad answers, that would be a bonus.

How many flats are you having?

I have the wife, and kids and grandkids and nearby friends, neighbors and
relatives, where I fix their flats all the time for them, gratis.

I'd guess I'm fixing about 2 a year or so at this rate, but that's only an
average as I just last week fixed two slow leaks on the same neighbor's
car. So I can go though five patches in a year, but not more than that.

The problem is that I can't plan on how many patches I will need to do
since they come in when they come in. I, myself, get about 1 flat a year
only, and often I can go for three years without a flat, but then I can get
three in a year. You can't plan these things.

A lot has to do, I think, with the fact I recycle, where you can't believe
the stuff you have to drive over to dump a truckload of stuff. Another
thing is that I help everyone in the neighborhood. And I pull over on
shoulders at times, to help people who have flats.

All these places have "debris" on the macadem, which can lodge into the
treads.

But to directly answer your question, about five patches should last me
about a year or so where I don't want to store the sticky rubber longer
than that.

I've had about two in ten years.

Good for you!
That means you don't have nearly the experience that I do.
Lucky you!

One resulted in the loss of the tire.

That's a very *deep* and *emotional* topic for many.
Ever wonder why Goodyear and Schwab and America's Tire do "free" tire flat
repair?

Ka-ching!

All follow RMA recommendations, which will fail a tire if two patches are
on the same line, if they're too close to the edge, if there is fluff
inside, if the hole is angled at greater than about 45 degrees, if the
shape isn't easily patched, if the tread is worn down to a single wear bar,
if the rim isn't in perfect condition, etc.

I would *love* know what their failure rate is for the mom-and-pop who
innocently brings their tire to be fixed for "free" and they're left
holding a rim in one hand and a tire on the other because the shop will
almost always *refuse* to put it back on the car.

Then I'd love to know how many people buy whatever tire is in inventory at
the tire shop, because they just want to get the car back on the road (a
lot depends on their willingness to use the spare but they still need the
flat fixed at some point relatively soon so they cave in to the current
hard sell at the shop because it's a PITA to bring a car to the shop for
many people).

The other one, I fixed with a string type plug, without taking it
off the car. That was many years ago, it's been holding fine.

Surprisingly, they work just fine to hold the air in and to protect the
treads from doing further damage inside the thickness.

But you don't get the same satisfaction from doing the job right.

It's the same difference as making your own salad dressing with first-press
olive oil versus buying the slop in the grocery store made out of God knows
what.

Both work fine as salad dressing - but one is done right.
And that just feels right.

You just said you have sources for five. How many is a handful?

About a year ago or so, I went to a shop to ask them where to get the black
goop they put on the *inside* of the tire, and they gave me an almost
finished can of that, plus they dug their hand into their patchplug bin
when I asked what size they use most for passenger car tire flats.

Out came five patchplugs, which I used up during the ensuing year.
I don't want to ask for freebies again and they don't sell them.
Well Blake, I've likely fixed as many tires as pretty well anyone
else on this list (24 years in "the business") - but I don't have room
for a tire machine at home, and at my age I'm not relishing dismouting
and rmounting tires on alloy rims with a set of spoons. I know I can
do it - I've done it before when necessary and would still do it if I
HAD to - but generally I don't HAVE to any more - so I don't. I DID
break the bead on my wife's Taurus wheel to clean up a bead leak on
the weekend by using a scissors jack under the frame of the truck -
but when I got a small puncture in my Nokian snow tire on the truck, I
just dropped it off at my local Nokian dealer and took advantage of
the free repair feature of their road hazard warrantee. Dropped it
off on the way to the office and picked it up at lunch.
I have access to a tire changer - about a 20 minute drive away - and
that's where the plugs I source end up - for use by my friend who owns
the farm. - and where I can do repairs if I NEED to on a weekend or
holiday.

Usually it's just more convenient to have someone else do it and pay
the price.

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 13:35:32 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 10/24/2017 1:20 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 12:48:48 PM UTC-4, Blake Snyder wrote:


I do all the above, except dismounting tires at home.

That's fine as I *know* most people don't dismount tires just like most
people don't dig their own fencepost holes.

The difference of course is that a hole digger is about the size of a
shovel, sits easily in the corner, and doesn't have to be mounted to
the garage floor. Tire changing eqpt is large, bulky and does have
to be floor mounted. And if I had the need to dig a bunch of holes,
I'd rent a power tool.



Last time I had a tire plugged/patched is about 5 years ago. In 56
years and 25 cars of driving I'd not paid out enough for tire repairs to
justify buying any equipment. I do have a tire pressure gauge though.
I've had 2 flats on the road in 49 years - one of them in the
Black hills of North Dakota at about -40 - (as well as 3 tire valves
failing within a few days while on holliday)and have had a few go flat
in the drivewy -or develop "slow leaks" - none of which were an
"emergency". The one in North Dakota was on a tire that really should
not have been fixed - it was pretty well worn - but it got me to Banff
Alberta and back home to Ontario after having it repaired (JUST made
it to a shop that could fix it before it got too low to drive on ---
was looking for air to get me to the next city and I found the manager
of the local Co-Op pulling into his driveway in his pickup truck at
7pm on Sunday night and he insisted on opening the shop and fixing the
tire for me. Good western hospitality.)

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 21:14:51 -0400, in
,
wrote:

Where do you buy small quantities of patch plugs to repair passenger car
tires?
Have you tried approaching your local tire repair shop????

I feel embarrassed because they give me the patchplugs for free.

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 12:48:16 -0500, in
news
I've used cylindrical, rectangular and rope type plugs. They all work as long as you run
the plug tool (or reamer) in the hole coated with fresh glue, and coat the plug with fresh
glue. I've plugged 8 or 9 tires that way, and all lasted the life of the tire.
So IMO it doesn't matter what type you use. The rope-type seems to be easier to insert.

I think it's interesting that we *all* have had the *same* experience with
the outside plugs, in that they all lasted the life of the tire.

I never said that's the reason for removing the tire to patchplug.

My main reason is that once you've done a patchplug, you just *feel* better
about the job. Especially if it's for your daughter or your wife or your
neighbor.

You don't feel like you did the job right when you only do an external
repair, because you can't technically do it right without at the very least
looking at the inside of the carcass to see if it's damaged.

It's sort of like the difference between a real oak desk, and an plywood
desk with just an oak veneer on the outside.

Am I the only one who feels that way?

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 21:25:33 -0400, in
,
wrote:

Buying online you have no idea what crap you are buying. Same with
buying from big box stores - you only KNOW it's the cheapest they
could buy.

I agree.
That's why I asked.

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 18:44:11 GMT, in ,
Iggy wrote:

Oh I know, I was just throwing out an idea that really is just as good and is
essentially what the pros do...I do not at all agree with the pros in overly
reaming the hole, their plugs go in entirely too loose for me. I've gone years
with no leaks on those push-in plugs, they've been successful for decades.

You bring up a great point in that I always feel bad that I have to *widen*
a hole just to put in a patchplug.

The patchplugs have a steel insert so they can go into pretty small holes,
but the process uses a reaming tool that makes the belt edges smoother than
they would be if you didn't use the reaming tool.

Like you, it always seems a little counter productive if you're trying to
fix a hole, that you first have to make it bigger.

But what you're really trying to do is smooth out the belts and to make the
hole more uniformly the "right size" for the patch plug.

I do agree though that it's sort of like cutting someone open just to
remove a splinter in that you have to *harm* the tire before you can fix
it.

Just make sure you're going to actually do it right and not just slather
Vulcanizing Cement all over. You must buff, cement and over-seal like the
pros. Meaning, don't get just the plugs in your link and instead go for the
complete kit -
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Xtra-Seal-T...AVF Z&vxp=mtr

I like *that* 20-patchplug kit because it comes with the hard-to-find black
inside goop that you paint over the inside of the repair!

It also comes with the softener that you use before buffing, which is
chemically matched to everything else by being all of the same brand.

I don't use the softener because I don't see how it does anything but make
it a *lot* less work for scraping away the surface layer (which is critical
for a tire shop where time is money).

But I would use the black inside goop to seal everything up nicely!

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 21:20:41 -0400, in
,
wrote:

The big question is WHY DO YOU WANT TO BUY THE DAMNED THINGS ONLINE?
Buy them locally from local tire repairshop. If they want to give them
to you, contribute to their coffee fund.

You bring up a good question.

There are so many tire shops, that in a day, I could likely collect, for
free, a five-years' supply.

Truth be told, I'm embarrassed to get the freebies.
I'd rather pay for them.

Nonetheless, the real answer to my question is that nobody knows any better
than I do, since anyone can do a google search (and I already did that
before I asked the question).

I can't find them locally for sale in small quantities.
So the only way to buy them is on the net.
Ebay, Amazon, and others sell them.

I was just asking whose is best.
I suspect, like car batteries, they only have very few manufacturers so
maybe it doesn't matter in the end.

But I would be just guessing at that.
And I don't like guessing.

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 21:47:17 -0400, in
,
wrote:

Well Blake, I've likely fixed as many tires as pretty well anyone
else on this list (24 years in "the business") - but I don't have room
for a tire machine at home, and at my age I'm not relishing dismouting
and rmounting tires on alloy rims with a set of spoons.

There are two kinds of tools, and most homeowners only own one kind.

The pro tools and the homeowner tools.
The pro tools you used are *huge* compared to the homeowner tools.

As just one example, look at the *lift* at a typical garage.
It must cost $10K right?
How much does your floor jack in your garage cost?
Maybe $150 right?
A set of drive-up ramps costs, what? Another $50?

Look at the *size* of those the respective tools.
The pro lift is about the length of the entire vehicle.
The homeowner floor jack & ramps pack in the corner of the garage.

We're not talking about pro tools here.
We're talking about homeowner tools here.

The homeowner tools to change, fix, and statically balance are no bigger,
no costlier, no different than any other typical home tool.

Here's what you need (some of which most people already have).
* A floor jack, chocks, stands, wrenches, & "spoons".
* A compressor (which you have if you have air tools)
* A bead breaker (which is smaller & lighter than a floor jack)
* A mounter/unmounter (which is about the size of a light drill press)
* A static balancer (which is about the size of a tub vacuum cleaner)

The argument that the tools for changing tires are bulkier than other tools
you already have in your garage or shed or shop is just not true.

I know I can
do it - I've done it before when necessary and would still do it if I
HAD to - but generally I don't HAVE to any more - so I don't.

What you're saying is that you don't *want to*, since everyone *has to*
change tires when they wear out and everyone *has to* fix a flat when they
get one.

Since you *do* have to change tires, and since you *do* have to fix flats,
then all you're saying is that you don't *want to*, which is fine.

I DID
break the bead on my wife's Taurus wheel to clean up a bead leak on
the weekend by using a scissors jack under the frame of the truck -

I've seen *every* redneck way of breaking (and seating) the bead, and I've
tried a few of them (like driving over on a flat board) and I'll tell you,
a fifty-dollar bead breaker will change your life in a split second.

For fifty bucks, you can forget all the redneck solutions to bead breaking!

but when I got a small puncture in my Nokian snow tire on the truck, I
just dropped it off at my local Nokian dealer and took advantage of
the free repair feature of their road hazard warrantee. Dropped it
off on the way to the office and picked it up at lunch.

If all the tools ever did was fix flats, then I would agree with you that
the tool would likely not be worth their storage costs. The tools
themselves are practically free, so the cost of the tools is nothing (about
$300 bucks for everything that you don't already have).

How much do your tools cost?
Are *none* of them three hundred bucks?

I have a wood chipper, for example, that costs me $650 at Lowes.
It's far bigger and bulkier than *any* tire-changing tool I own.
My drill press is more costly and bulky than *any* of my tire-changing
tools.
My wet/dry vacuum cleaner is much bulkier than the balancer is.
My floor jack is far heavier than the very light bead breaker is.

All I'm saying is that the homeowner tire changing tools are no bulkier, no
more expensive, and no more troublesome to store (since all but the
balancer I store outside) than *any* of your other tools are.

I have access to a tire changer - about a 20 minute drive away - and
that's where the plugs I source end up - for use by my friend who owns
the farm. - and where I can do repairs if I NEED to on a weekend or
holiday.

Usually it's just more convenient to have someone else do it and pay
the price.

I understand as a lot of people tell me it's more convenient to hire a
gardener to mow their lawn. They'd rather pay than mow.

That makes complete sense.

But those people who would rather pay than do will not likely offer the
best advice on what a good lawn mower is, right?

In most cases, if you asked them for the best lawnmower parts, and if
they've never fixed their lawnmower, then their guess would be worse than
your guess, right?

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 21:59:51 -0400, in
,
wrote:

I've had 2 flats on the road in 49 years - one of them in the
Black hills of North Dakota at about -40 - (as well as 3 tire valves
failing within a few days while on holliday)and have had a few go flat
in the drivewy -or develop "slow leaks" - none of which were an
"emergency". The one in North Dakota was on a tire that really should
not have been fixed - it was pretty well worn - but it got me to Banff
Alberta and back home to Ontario after having it repaired (JUST made
it to a shop that could fix it before it got too low to drive on ---
was looking for air to get me to the next city and I found the manager
of the local Co-Op pulling into his driveway in his pickup truck at
7pm on Sunday night and he insisted on opening the shop and fixing the
tire for me. Good western hospitality.)

Almost everyone, including you, has replaced a tire, I'm sure, using the
manual method, whether that be a car tire or a motorcycle tire or a bicycle
tire.

The arguments are the same for all of them.

The only way to know if the patch is safe is to patch it from the inside.

Even so, the tools do more than fix tires.
The tools replace tires too.

I'll guess that you've *replaced* tires a lot!

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 10:44:02 -0700 (PDT), in
, trader_4
wrote:

Similar experience here. I've had about 3 tire problems in maybe 15
years. One was when I drove over a short piece of nipple type pipe
on the road, it instantly deflated it. That was the end of that tire.
The other two were simple nails in the middle of the tread. Fixed
both of those with the rope type plugs and they held up fine.

There's nothing wrong with your words above, so my response is only related
to the fact that an outside repair is something any professional will
*laugh* at because it's not a *safe* repair in the eyes of the tire
professionals.

To you and me, I agree with you that *it works*. I won't disagree since
I've done it many times myself. And I'm not dead yet.

But you have to admit that no tire professional will do the job from the
*outside*. You do know that, right? It's just wrong. And it feels wrong.

It works though. So I'm not saying that it doesn't work.
But if my daughter needed a tire repair, I would not do it from the
outside. For myself, I might.

But not my kid or wife or friend.
For them, I'd do it right.

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 13:35:32 -0400, in
, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Last time I had a tire plugged/patched is about 5 years ago. In 56
years and 25 cars of driving I'd not paid out enough for tire repairs to
justify buying any equipment. I do have a tire pressure gauge though.

I can understand your argument that the equipment costs money while a
proper and safe repair can be free if you go to the right place.

But you missed entirely the fact that the tools are used for *more* than
just fixing flats. The tools are also used for changing worn out tires and
for mounting different tires at different times of the year (if that's your
shtick - but a lot of people just buy and store four additional rims).

The fact you missed that *obvious* point means (most likely) that you're
not being honest with yourself, since you make the *same decision* about
*all* your tools.

It's the same argument you can make for owning a leaf blower or not.
It's the same argument you can make for owning a chain saw or not.
It's the same argument you can make for owning a floor jack or not.

The leaf blower blows more than just the leaves out of your patio.
The chain saw cuts more than just one branch a year that falls down.
The floor jack lifts more than just your Ford - it also lifts Chevys.

The fact that you entirely missed that the tools are really bought to
change tires, where fixing flats is just gravy, means simply that you don't
like changing tires at home (which is just fine).

But don't falsely say the tools cost too much because, like all tools, they
cost a lot less by orders of magnitude than it costs to pay someone else to
do the job for you.

Name one tool that you own that cost *more* to own and operate than it
would cost to have someone else do the job, if it's a job that you do about
10 times a year for your entire life.

I agree if tires were, like LED light bulbs, essentially permanently
installed, then you'd never need to change them out. But you *do* need to
change tires out every few years on *each* car you own just as a chain saw
is useful for *every* tree that you want to trim and a floor jack works on
every car you want to lift and a leaf blower works in any situation you
want to blow air.

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 10:20:27 -0700 (PDT), in
, trader_4
wrote:

The difference of course is that a hole digger is about the size of a
shovel, sits easily in the corner, and doesn't have to be mounted to
the garage floor. Tire changing eqpt is large, bulky and does have
to be floor mounted. And if I had the need to dig a bunch of holes,
I'd rent a power tool.

You prove my point with every post that people who haven't done it are
telling lies to themselves and to others.

Your *objections* to the tools are all incorrect.
You're just guessing, and you're just guessing wrong.

The real reason you don't have the tools is that you don't want to do the
job, which is ok. But just be true to yourself as to why and don't
propagate incorrect assumptions about the size of your tools.

The bead breaker and balancer are both smaller than, lighter than, and as
mobile as a good floor jack is. The mounting/unmounting tool is about the
size of a small drill press.

The mounter/unmounter does have to be bolted down but you can use recessed
female threads sunk into concrete inside or outside so that it can be
removed if you don't have the space to just leave it outside all the time.

The real reason people don't have the tools isn't the cost or the size, but
that they don't want to do the job, which is fine. But it's not that the
tools are bulky because they're not any more bulky than any other tool you
have in the shed.

You also need a compressor, by the way, but many people already have one
for their air tools, and they're no more bulky than the balancer is anyway.

It's not the cost, it's the size, bulkiness, they need to be mounted
to the garage floor. And then that you need to BALANCE the tires
after they are mounted. What's the point to having the eqpt to mount
tires, when that's only half of the process?

Every one of your statements is dead wrong, but you're welcome to your
opinion, but then, so am I welcome to explain why you're dead wrong.

The "bulkiness" of the three tools is no more bulky than tools you
*already* have in the shop (see above explanation).

Mounting to the garage floor is not needed. My mounter is mounted outside,
but it could have been mounted anywhere if I unbolt it after use (I use it
so much that I keep it bolted in, but I could easily remove it any time).

Balancing is a piece of cake given that you *mark* the location on the rim
beforehand and you put it back and check the static balance. You're only
adding a patch, which weighs, what?

I didn't make up anything.

Well then, why did you get everything wrong?
BTW, it's fine that you make everything up.
And it's even fine that you get everything wrong as a result.

All I'm asking you is to be true to yourself.
The real reason you're against the tools is that you don't want to do the
job.

Just as some people don't want to clean out their closets, you don't want
to mount tires.

That's fine.
But don't make up the fact that closets are too bulky to clean out simply
because you don't like to do the job.

Just be honest with yourself as to why you're throwing imaginary hurdles in
the air as to why *you* don't want to own tools to do the job.

The simple question was what makes a source for your patch plugs a good
one. You said you've gotten handfuls from local shops for free, you
said you know where to buy them 5 at a time online. So, what's the
problem? Without knowing what criteria are required, it can't be
answered.

The question was really simple. It still is.
Anyone can guess at an answer (I already did guess).
I was *hoping* (beyond hope it seems) to find someone who didn't just
guess.

I wanted to ask someone who had actually done the job where *they* get
their patchplugs from, in small quantities.

If nobody has bought them and used them, then nobody can help me.
It's really that simple.

It's not my first thing. My first thing for a simple nail is a rope
type plug, without taking the tire off the car. Been there, done it,
it works.

You must know that *every* tire professional will laugh at that answer.
You must know that it's *impossible* to do a *safe* job without looking at
the *inside* of the tire.

If you don't know that, then I'm wasting my time talking to you because
*everyone* knows that and *nobody* could possibly logically refute me.

Sure, you can *guess* and *assume* the tire hasn't been damaged on the
inside - but you're just guessing.

Worse. You guessed dead wrong on *every* count.

If you're so experienced, why don't you know where to source the
patch plugs?

This rhetorical question shows that you can't help anyone with your
attitude that only a *guess* from someone who has never once done the job
correctly will be able to help me.

If someone has the experience, they will know the answer.
If they don't have the experience, their guess is worse than mine is.

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 13:15:40 -0400, in
, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

I'm truly impressed. You have a nice set of rules as to who can reply
to you and you also have experience patching tires. Not may of us have
your ability and yes, we are in awe of you.

I admit, I've never changed car tire. I just don't have your skills
and ability so I won't go beyond fixing bicycle tires. Well, not the
actual tire but the tube inside of it.

Thank you for sharing your wisdom.

Hi Ed,
The point was that there's no chance that someone who hasn't done it, will
know the answer.

Take, for example, sex with a woman.

Two people are in a bar (which Usenet approximates), one of whom has had
sex about two dozen times, while the other has *never* had sex even once.

One guy asks what's the best way to get the woman off, and the other offers
what value on the topic? Doesn't he have to guess?

Now, maybe his guess is good and maybe it's not - but it's just a guess.
It would be better to find someone with experience to ask the question of.

Do you see my point?

On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 03:45:59 -0000 (UTC), Blake Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 21:47:17 -0400, in
,
wrote:

Well Blake, I've likely fixed as many tires as pretty well anyone
else on this list (24 years in "the business") - but I don't have room
for a tire machine at home, and at my age I'm not relishing dismouting
and rmounting tires on alloy rims with a set of spoons.

There are two kinds of tools, and most homeowners only own one kind.

The pro tools and the homeowner tools.
The pro tools you used are *huge* compared to the homeowner tools.

As just one example, look at the *lift* at a typical garage.
It must cost $10K right?
How much does your floor jack in your garage cost?
Maybe $150 right?
A set of drive-up ramps costs, what? Another $50?

Look at the *size* of those the respective tools.
The pro lift is about the length of the entire vehicle.
The homeowner floor jack & ramps pack in the corner of the garage.

We're not talking about pro tools here.
We're talking about homeowner tools here.

The homeowner tools to change, fix, and statically balance are no bigger,
no costlier, no different than any other typical home tool.

Here's what you need (some of which most people already have).
* A floor jack, chocks, stands, wrenches, & "spoons".
* A compressor (which you have if you have air tools)
* A bead breaker (which is smaller & lighter than a floor jack)
* A mounter/unmounter (which is about the size of a light drill press)
* A static balancer (which is about the size of a tub vacuum cleaner)

And I don'r have space for the demounter - and as said before, I CAN
get by without the bead breaker and the demounter, but it's more
hassle than Ineed.

The argument that the tools for changing tires are bulkier than other tools
you already have in your garage or shed or shop is just not true.

You haven't seen my garage!!!

I know I can
do it - I've done it before when necessary and would still do it if I
HAD to - but generally I don't HAVE to any more - so I don't.

What you're saying is that you don't *want to*, since everyone *has to*
change tires when they wear out and everyone *has to* fix a flat when they
get one.

Since you *do* have to change tires, and since you *do* have to fix flats,
then all you're saying is that you don't *want to*, which is fine.

I DID
break the bead on my wife's Taurus wheel to clean up a bead leak on
the weekend by using a scissors jack under the frame of the truck -

I've seen *every* redneck way of breaking (and seating) the bead, and I've
tried a few of them (like driving over on a flat board) and I'll tell you,
a fifty-dollar bead breaker will change your life in a split second.

For fifty bucks, you can forget all the redneck solutions to bead breaking!

but when I got a small puncture in my Nokian snow tire on the truck, I
just dropped it off at my local Nokian dealer and took advantage of
the free repair feature of their road hazard warrantee. Dropped it
off on the way to the office and picked it up at lunch.

If all the tools ever did was fix flats, then I would agree with you that
the tool would likely not be worth their storage costs. The tools
themselves are practically free, so the cost of the tools is nothing (about
$300 bucks for everything that you don't already have).

How much do your tools cost?
Are *none* of them three hundred bucks?

I have in excess of $20,000 invested in automotive tools alone - plus
a lathes, and a whole stack of saws, routers, drills, grinders, etc, a
welder, 2 torch sets, just for starters.

I have a wood chipper, for example, that costs me $650 at Lowes.
3 lawn mowers and a $3000 snow blower - which I use quite regularly
and is part of the reason I have no room for tire equipment I MIGHT
use once every 2 years or so.
It's far bigger and bulkier than *any* tire-changing tool I own.
My drill press is more costly and bulky than *any* of my tire-changing
tools.
My wet/dry vacuum cleaner is much bulkier than the balancer is.
My floor jack is far heavier than the very light bead breaker is.

And I use my shop vac regularly as well.

All I'm saying is that the homeowner tire changing tools are no bulkier, no
more expensive, and no more troublesome to store (since all but the
balancer I store outside) than *any* of your other tools are.

I don't, as a matter of principal, store ANY tools out side.

I have access to a tire changer - about a 20 minute drive away - and
that's where the plugs I source end up - for use by my friend who owns
the farm. - and where I can do repairs if I NEED to on a weekend or
holiday.

Usually it's just more convenient to have someone else do it and pay
the price.

I understand as a lot of people tell me it's more convenient to hire a
gardener to mow their lawn. They'd rather pay than mow.

That makes complete sense.
but not cents.

But those people who would rather pay than do will not likely offer the
best advice on what a good lawn mower is, right?

In most cases, if you asked them for the best lawnmower parts, and if
they've never fixed their lawnmower, then their guess would be worse than
your guess, right?

On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 03:46:00 -0000 (UTC), Blake Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 21:59:51 -0400, in
,
wrote:

I've had 2 flats on the road in 49 years - one of them in the
Black hills of North Dakota at about -40 - (as well as 3 tire valves
failing within a few days while on holliday)and have had a few go flat
in the drivewy -or develop "slow leaks" - none of which were an
"emergency". The one in North Dakota was on a tire that really should
not have been fixed - it was pretty well worn - but it got me to Banff
Alberta and back home to Ontario after having it repaired (JUST made
it to a shop that could fix it before it got too low to drive on ---
was looking for air to get me to the next city and I found the manager
of the local Co-Op pulling into his driveway in his pickup truck at
7pm on Sunday night and he insisted on opening the shop and fixing the
tire for me. Good western hospitality.)

Almost everyone, including you, has replaced a tire, I'm sure, using the
manual method, whether that be a car tire or a motorcycle tire or a bicycle
tire.

The arguments are the same for all of them.

The only way to know if the patch is safe is to patch it from the inside.

Even so, the tools do more than fix tires.
The tools replace tires too.

I'll guess that you've *replaced* tires a lot!
Tes, but when I buy new tires I have the supplier install and balance
them - then there is never a question about who is responsible if
there is a problem - and for the last 26 tears since I have been out
of "the business", my time has been worth more to someone else than
the cost of having tires mounted.