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Default Need your advice on a good inside automotive tire patch

I'm gonna patch my first automotive tire this week.

I need your advice on a good inside automotive tire patch
as I got a flat today, switched with the spare, and went
about a half mile to the nearest auto parts store.
https://i.imgur.com/kb3a6rs.jpg

All they had are bike-tire-type patches at the one auto parts
store I stopped at today; they only had crappy passenger tire
patches (little round things, very thin).

I prefer rectangular-cut larger patches (dunno why - I just
feel they might hold better). Those that are something like
three or four inches long or so.

I can easily remove the tire and replace it on the rim
and balance it afterward so this question is only about
the patch. I do not want to patch it from the outside
because I feel that isn't as good as from inside.

Where do you get your inside-tire automotive tire patches?
What type of patch/glue/prep do you recommend?
https://i.imgur.com/InL9A8y.jpg
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Default Need your advice on a good inside automotive tire patch

The "patch-plug" is the ideal tire repair as it combines the best elements of the patch and plug worlds; the patch keeps the plug from shifting out of place, and the plug helps the patch to stay secure to the tire.
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WWS TEXAS wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 08:57:48 -0800:

The "patch-plug" is the ideal tire repair as it combines the best
elements of the patch and plug worlds; the patch keeps the plug from
shifting out of place, and the plug helps the patch to stay secure to
the tire.


I didn't know those existed, so thank you very much for the idea!

Googling for "automotive tire patch plug" I see that the Rubber
Manufacturers Association recommends them (www.betiresmart.org).
http://www.rma.org/tire-safety/tire-repair/

I found the repair procedure he
http://artsautomotive.com/publicatio...patch-or-plug/

I found a "steelman" brand 1/8th inch tire repair patch/plug unit.
Is that a good brand?
STEELMAN JSG381 1/8-Inch Tire Repair Patch/Plug

Do you suggest any specific glues or tools that might not come
with the patchplug set?
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Default Need your advice on a good inside automotive tire patch

On 12/7/2015 12:15 PM, Danny D. wrote:
WWS TEXAS wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 08:57:48 -0800:

The "patch-plug" is the ideal tire repair as it combines the best
elements of the patch and plug worlds; the patch keeps the plug from
shifting out of place, and the plug helps the patch to stay secure to
the tire.


I didn't know those existed, so thank you very much for the idea!

Googling for "automotive tire patch plug" I see that the Rubber
Manufacturers Association recommends them (www.betiresmart.org).
http://www.rma.org/tire-safety/tire-repair/

I found the repair procedure he
http://artsautomotive.com/publicatio...patch-or-plug/

I found a "steelman" brand 1/8th inch tire repair patch/plug unit.
Is that a good brand?
STEELMAN JSG381 1/8-Inch Tire Repair Patch/Plug

Do you suggest any specific glues or tools that might not come
with the patchplug set?


Interesting to learn this:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=77

Wondered why it cost me $30 to get a tire repaired a few years ago.
The tire has held up well.
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Default Need your advice on a good inside automotive tire patch

Frank wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:23:09 -0500:

Interesting to learn this:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=77

Wondered why it cost me $30 to get a tire repaired a few years ago.
The tire has held up well.


Out here, at $100/hour shop rates, it could easily cost more just
for the labor, plus you have to rebalance and they often destroy
the valve and they are brutal on your expensive soft rims!

I'm sick and tired of the brutish monkeys prying off my BBS
hubcaps with screwdrivers, damaging the soft rims, torquing
the lug bolts to 100 foot pounds instead of 84, not removing
the old weights when balancing, putting the same psi into
all four wheels, etc. They're just horrid.

So, I'm just gonna do it myself.

But that takes knowledge, so, I'm glad you pointed me to that
web page. It shows that you don't want *air* to get in between
the plies, so that's important to put the plug in there to
prevent air from sneaking in between the plies.

They call them "mushroom" patches in that article and they
say that the patch keeps air in and the plug keeps air and
moisture out of the plies.

I just want to do the job right, instead of letting the monkeys
do the job wrong. This will take all the advice you know of!





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"Danny D." wrote in message
...
WWS TEXAS wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 08:57:48 -0800:

The "patch-plug" is the ideal tire repair as it combines the best
elements of the patch and plug worlds; the patch keeps the plug from
shifting out of place, and the plug helps the patch to stay secure to
the tire.


I didn't know those existed, so thank you very much for the idea!


I worked at Sears changing and repairing tires and a few other minor
repairs. They had plug/patches similar to them back in 1970. Used a lot of
them.


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Default Need your advice on a good inside automotive tire patch

Ralph Mowery wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:44:04 -0500:

I worked at Sears changing and repairing tires and a few other minor
repairs. They had plug/patches similar to them back in 1970. Used a lot of
them.


Yikes! I hate Sears! I promised myself in 1981 that I'd *never* go
to Sears ever again! I tell everyone *not* to go to Sears!

begin rant

When I was young and stupid, I brought my 1970 clunker to Sears for
a $100 alignment.

The car had 90K miles on it and I had failed inspection (in those days,
they lifted the front end and checked for suspension wear).

I brought it to K-Mart, who, for something like $20 told me I needed
to replace the idler arm, the pitman arm, and the tie rod ends.

I replaced all of them, and started to do the alignment but quickly
realized that I just didn't have the tools to MEASURE the angles
correctly (and to convert inches to degrees, etc.). I got as far
as doing the toe but gave up when it came to camber and caster.

I had MARKED EVERYTHING though, with yellow nail polish, because
I wanted a before-and-after look at things (I was pretty detailed,
even then).

So I take it to Sears, pay my $100, and watch they guy. He never
once touched the car, but at one point, I was distracted by the shop
asking me to pay so maybe he did the work while I wasn't looking?

Anyway, I pay and drive home and put the car on a lift to snap
pictures. Guess what. Not a single eccentric was touched! Not one.
I could tell because I was sloppy with the nail polish and not a
single bolt was even MOVED!

The *******s. They stole my money. And my time. And, I'm sure,
I wasn't the only one.

I go back. I complain. They put it on the lift. Not a single thing
was right except for the toe (which "I" had done myself!).

Turns out, they mechanic *ADMITTED* he didn't do a thing!
He said his charts only went back 10 years and my car was 11 years
old! Can you believe that.

I should have complained to high heaven and gotten a refund.
I just let them re-align it.

I wasn't as crotchety when I was young, but I would have complained
to the district attorney or something had I been the age I am now.

It's criminal what Sears does to rip off people.
Absolutely criminal.

I watch all my alignments like a hawk watching a mouse now.
Sears sucks. I will *never* ever go to Sears for the rest of my
life, and I make sure everyone knows how bad they are.

The're criminals.
I'm sorry you worked there, and I do apologize for the diatribe.
It's not your fault they are criminals. It's their fault.

end rant
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Default Need your advice on a good inside automotive tire patch

On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 16:45:40 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

I'm gonna patch my first automotive tire this week.


I just use "strings", with rubber cement, and it works well.
I follow the instructions.

I used to use "plugs'.

My probe/rasp tool finally broke, so I bought a better quality one.
Maybe I bought a better quality of both.



I need your advice on a good inside automotive tire patch
as I got a flat today, switched with the spare, and went
about a half mile to the nearest auto parts store.
https://i.imgur.com/kb3a6rs.jpg

All they had are bike-tire-type patches at the one auto parts
store I stopped at today; they only had crappy passenger tire
patches (little round things, very thin).

I prefer rectangular-cut larger patches (dunno why - I just
feel they might hold better). Those that are something like
three or four inches long or so.

I can easily remove the tire and replace it on the rim
and balance it afterward so this question is only about
the patch. I do not want to patch it from the outside
because I feel that isn't as good as from inside.

Where do you get your inside-tire automotive tire patches?
What type of patch/glue/prep do you recommend?
https://i.imgur.com/InL9A8y.jpg

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"Danny D." wrote in message
...
Ralph Mowery wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:44:04 -0500:


Yikes! I hate Sears! I promised myself in 1981 that I'd *never* go
to Sears ever again! I tell everyone *not* to go to Sears!


Turns out, they mechanic *ADMITTED* he didn't do a thing!
He said his charts only went back 10 years and my car was 11 years
old! Can you believe that.

I should have complained to high heaven and gotten a refund.
I just let them re-align it.

I wasn't as crotchety when I was young, but I would have complained
to the district attorney or something had I been the age I am now.

It's criminal what Sears does to rip off people.
Absolutely criminal.

I watch all my alignments like a hawk watching a mouse now.
Sears sucks. I will *never* ever go to Sears for the rest of my
life, and I make sure everyone knows how bad they are.

The're criminals.
I'm sorry you worked there, and I do apologize for the diatribe.
It's not your fault they are criminals. It's their fault.


I was about 19 at the time. Just a part time job while in school.
I don't know about the quality of work, but at that store I know they did
make an attempt at doing whatever was suspose to be done, maybe others
don't.

I do know lots of places will rip you off. Local Ford dealer did to a
friend. He took a car with a V8 to get the plugs changed. It came back
with the same miss in the engine it had. They only changed 7 plugs as the
8th was very hard to get to. He went back and complained and was asked how
he knew the plug was not changed. He said because 7 were of one brand and
the hard to get to was another.

I hate that a local 'shade tree mechanic' got too old and quit. He was an
honest man and good at what he did. I had him to do several jobs for me
like changing a timing belt. He recommended a few othe things such as the
water pump as it was driven by the belt and all it was 4 bolts to do it.
Said it would not be any more labor and just his cost of the part. Bet not
many if any dealers would do that.



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Default Need your advice on a good inside automotive tire patch

On 12/7/2015 12:39 PM, Danny D. wrote:
Frank wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:23:09 -0500:

Interesting to learn this:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=77

Wondered why it cost me $30 to get a tire repaired a few years ago.
The tire has held up well.


Out here, at $100/hour shop rates, it could easily cost more just
for the labor, plus you have to rebalance and they often destroy
the valve and they are brutal on your expensive soft rims!

I'm sick and tired of the brutish monkeys prying off my BBS
hubcaps with screwdrivers, damaging the soft rims, torquing
the lug bolts to 100 foot pounds instead of 84, not removing
the old weights when balancing, putting the same psi into
all four wheels, etc. They're just horrid.

So, I'm just gonna do it myself.

But that takes knowledge, so, I'm glad you pointed me to that
web page. It shows that you don't want *air* to get in between
the plies, so that's important to put the plug in there to
prevent air from sneaking in between the plies.

They call them "mushroom" patches in that article and they
say that the patch keeps air in and the plug keeps air and
moisture out of the plies.

I just want to do the job right, instead of letting the monkeys
do the job wrong. This will take all the advice you know of!




Until I looked into your problem, I thought they were just plugging from
the exterior and NTW (believe Sears owned) said they had to patch from
inside.

My flat was on a Sunday and I took it to NTW as dealer where I bought
tires and repairs my car was closed.

I had extended warranty as AWD on Subaru requires all 4 tires are equal.

Company would not honor warranty since I did not return to where I
bought them but the shop where I bought them reimbursed me.


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Frank wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 13:13:37 -0500:

Company would not honor warranty since I did not return to where I
bought them but the shop where I bought them reimbursed me.


I make every mistake you can make, and I've made that buying tires
by warranty mistake also. In addition, I bought the useless extended
warranty.

Once I tried to return a tire I thought wore too early and the tire
under warranty would cost MORE than a tire NOT under warranty because
I had to have THEM do it, and I had to pay for the mounting and
balancing and I originally bought it on sale where it was no longer
on sale (although I could get it from Tire Rack cheaper!).

End result, even *with* the pro-rated warranty, the replacement tire
under warranty cost more than that same tire (same exact brand and
model!) not on warranty!

Likewise, I have paid for the extended warranty, which, when you bring
a tire back, they told me that alignment wasn't covered (which may
be true - but then why did I bother). So I never buy extended or
by warranty ever again.

Also, I used to get tires at Costco for the "free" mounting and
balancing and repair, but, unfortunately, the *wait* at Costco is
forever (hours and hours) so it's not worth it unless you drop it
off and come back (which isn't convenient for me).

So, I forgo all warranties and just buy tires from Tire Rack by
performance and price and fit. And I mount them myself now that
Harbor Freight sells that nice red mounting kit. And I balance
them statically, very carefully - and since they have expensive
rims, they're almost perfect and don't vibrate at all. Who knew
that dynamic balancing was a waste? I didn't. Until I tried the
static balancing.

Which so far works perfectly for me.
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Ralph Mowery wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 13:13:01 -0500:

I do know lots of places will rip you off. Local Ford dealer did to a
friend. He took a car with a V8 to get the plugs changed. It came back
with the same miss in the engine it had. They only changed 7 plugs as the
8th was very hard to get to. He went back and complained and was asked how
he knew the plug was not changed. He said because 7 were of one brand and
the hard to get to was another.


This is true.
Anyone, not only Sears, can rip you off.

That's why I recommend my own kids do three simple things when they bring their
cars to a mechanic:

1. Mark everything (e.g., mark the plugs, bolts, water pump, etc.)
2. Ask for the old parts back (they'd better be the same marked parts!)
3. Watch them while they're working (if they let you)
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On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 08:57:48 -0800 (PST), WWS TEXAS
wrote:

The "patch-plug" is the ideal tire repair as it combines the best elements of the
patch and plug worlds; the patch keeps the plug from shifting out of place, and
the plug helps the patch to stay secure to the tire.


I never knew they make such a thing. Sounds like a good idea though.
A local tire shop will patch a tire for $10 or less, so I just let them
do it. Getting tires off and on rims is not easy without a "tire
machine" and I still would not be able to balance them....

I will fix bicycle tires, those small tires on garden tractors and
wheelbarrows though. Most of the time I just put a tube in them. Those
small tires seem to always leak around the rims no matter how well they
are mounted. Tubes solve that, and those small tubes are not very
costly.

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On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 17:49:28 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:


It's criminal what Sears does to rip off people.
Absolutely criminal.

I watch all my alignments like a hawk watching a mouse now.
Sears sucks. I will *never* ever go to Sears for the rest of my
life, and I make sure everyone knows how bad they are.

The're criminals.
I'm sorry you worked there, and I do apologize for the diatribe.
It's not your fault they are criminals. It's their fault.

end rant


I go to Sears for Craftsman tools, but I rarely buy anything else. I
dont let Sears or any of those big chain stores work on my cars. I go to
a small local mechanic if I cant fix something myself.

Many years ago, I took a car to one of those large chain stores for an
alignment. It was an old car, so they probably did not want to work on
it. They wrote an estimate to replace half the steering parts, and it
was a large amount of money. I left, and took the car home and checked
all the parts they said needed to be replaced. None showed excessive
wear, but the idler arm was a bit sloppy. I replaced the idler arm. Then
I took the car to a small tire shop that also did alignments and some
other work. They charged about $20 more than the chain store for the
alignment, but they did the work and said all the parts were fine.

I will never take another car to Sears, K-Mart, or any of the chain
stores for any repairs.

I once tried to do an alignment myself. Forget it.... I'll never try
that again.



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Default Need your advice on a good inside automotive tire patch

Paintedcow wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 13:34:59 -0600:

I go to Sears for Craftsman tools, but I rarely buy anything else.


I am the same. I "do" buy Craftsman tools, although, lately, Harbor
Frieght tools work fine - but - maybe because I already have all the
basic tools, so, what I need are things like tire changers and
static balancers nowadays (not wrenches and screwdrivers).


They charged about $20 more than the chain store for the
alignment, but they did the work and said all the parts were fine.


Remind me to tell you the story of when I want to AAmco (again, as
a stupid kid) when they wanted to charge me $400 for a new transmission
when the real problem turned out to be bad motor mounts (causing a
screeching of the belts).

I found this out ONLY because I didn't have the money to pay $400
to Aamco. They were "professionals" so I believed them, but, when
I went to a mechanic, he said the only problem was the motor mounts,
which, after I replaced them (pretty easy job) *was* the problem!

So, AAmco is either incompetent, or crooks.
And, we all know they're not *that* incompetant.

The end result is that you can only trust yourself, and the guys
here who aren't making any money off of you and me.

Thanks you guys! (PS: Where the hell is Oren & Chris?)

I will never take another car to Sears, K-Mart, or any of the chain
stores for any repairs.


Don't get me started on the actions of Midas Muffler last I went there!

I once tried to do an alignment myself. Forget it.... I'll never try
that again.


Alignment is one of the last bastions that a shade-tree mechanic
doesn't do.

I *bought* all the tools (e.g., digital levels) and made a toe measurement
tool. While toe is the easiest of all, it's not easy to measure nor to
even UNDERSTAND alignment. I think I understand it better than most, but,
even so, we need about $500 to $1,000 in tools to do the job easily.

Notice, we do NOT need the $50K to $100K tool that the shops use. They
have VASTLY different requirements than we have. We just need a level
garage floor, decent measurement tools, a decent lift system, and
the knowledge of how to convert inches to degrees and vice versa.


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Default Need your advice on a good inside automotive tire patch

Paintedcow wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 13:13:55 -0600:

I never knew they make such a thing. Sounds like a good idea though.
A local tire shop will patch a tire for $10 or less, so I just let them
do it


You live in a different world than I live in, because NOTHING
is $10 "or less" at a repair shop. Absolutely NOTHING. Maybe you
live in Kansas or Texas, or some other cheap state, but this is
California. Absolutely nothing is $10.

I just called three local tire-related shops.
Most charged $30 for just the patch (not the patchplug).
The cheapest was $20 for a plug from the outside only.

Anyway, the cost isn't the issue.
They *never* do the job right.

It's not that they don't KNOW how.
It's that their CUSTOMER generally doesn't know how.
So, they cheat.

Every single time.
You can NOT get a good job from them, unless you ride herd on
them, and you may as well just do it yourself.

Besides, I've changed and mounted my own tires using the Harbor
Frieght tool. For low-profile performance tires on aluminum rims,
the job is EASY. As easy (almost) as changing brakes and rotors.

It's not difficult at all (until/unless you get to the really
thick sidewall tires such as SUV tires - which ARE harder!).
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Paintedcow wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 13:13:55 -0600:

Getting tires off and on rims is not easy without a "tire
machine" and I still would not be able to balance them....


It's very easy to mount and unmount "medium" profile (50 series)
tires on BBS aluminum rims using the Harbor Freight tool.

I have done SUV tires (70 series) too, which are much harder
but still doable.

I wouldn't go any bigger than 17 inch diameter though, nor
any taller than 70 series (and I prefer my 50 series as the
shorter and thinner the sidewall, the easier it is).

The aluminum rims don't get scratched at all (a bit of red
paint, that's it) and the steel rims are actually more of
a pain because in my experience, they're harder to balance
and the weights go on differently (bang on edge versus stick
on the inside).

All you need are three things, none of which are expensive:
1. Compressor (most already have that)
2. Tire Changing Tool (Harbor Freight has them on sale periodically)
3. Static Wheel Balancer (same as above, costs more than the changer)

My first 5 wheel replacement job payed for all the tools as the
price for the tools and weights was almost exactly what it would
have cost for a shop to mount and balance the five tires I had
shipped to my house from Tire Rack.
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"Danny D." wrote in message
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Paintedcow wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 13:13:55 -0600:

I never knew they make such a thing. Sounds like a good idea though.
A local tire shop will patch a tire for $10 or less, so I just let them
do it


You live in a different world than I live in, because NOTHING
is $10 "or less" at a repair shop. Absolutely NOTHING. Maybe you
live in Kansas or Texas, or some other cheap state, but this is
California. Absolutely nothing is $10.

I just called three local tire-related shops.
Most charged $30 for just the patch (not the patchplug).
The cheapest was $20 for a plug from the outside only.

I like the deal I got at Tire Discount. They rotate the tires for free and
will patch anyones tire in the famialy for free if they give them your
telephone number. I have not used the repair service, but while waiting on
a rotation I was talking to a man and he told me this was his 4 th repair.
The dealer treated him just as good as if he was buyin 4 new tires and told
him to come back if he has another flat.


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Default Need your advice on a good inside automotive tire patch

On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 16:45:40 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

I'm gonna patch my first automotive tire this week.

I need your advice on a good inside automotive tire patch
as I got a flat today, switched with the spare, and went
about a half mile to the nearest auto parts store.
https://i.imgur.com/kb3a6rs.jpg

All they had are bike-tire-type patches at the one auto parts
store I stopped at today; they only had crappy passenger tire
patches (little round things, very thin).

I prefer rectangular-cut larger patches (dunno why - I just
feel they might hold better). Those that are something like
three or four inches long or so.

I can easily remove the tire and replace it on the rim
and balance it afterward so this question is only about
the patch. I do not want to patch it from the outside
because I feel that isn't as good as from inside.

Where do you get your inside-tire automotive tire patches?
What type of patch/glue/prep do you recommend?
https://i.imgur.com/InL9A8y.jpg

Take it to a real tire shop and have a "mushroom" patch installed.
It has a plug and a patch combined..
The "tech" product is one of the best.
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On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 17:39:02 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Frank wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:23:09 -0500:

Interesting to learn this:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=77

Wondered why it cost me $30 to get a tire repaired a few years ago.
The tire has held up well.


Out here, at $100/hour shop rates, it could easily cost more just
for the labor, plus you have to rebalance and they often destroy
the valve and they are brutal on your expensive soft rims!

I'm sick and tired of the brutish monkeys prying off my BBS
hubcaps with screwdrivers, damaging the soft rims, torquing
the lug bolts to 100 foot pounds instead of 84, not removing
the old weights when balancing, putting the same psi into
all four wheels, etc. They're just horrid.

So, I'm just gonna do it myself.

But that takes knowledge, so, I'm glad you pointed me to that
web page. It shows that you don't want *air* to get in between
the plies, so that's important to put the plug in there to
prevent air from sneaking in between the plies.

They call them "mushroom" patches in that article and they
say that the patch keeps air in and the plug keeps air and
moisture out of the plies.

I just want to do the job right, instead of letting the monkeys
do the job wrong. This will take all the advice you know of!



Take the tire off yourself. Take it to the shop for repair. Remount it
yourself. Thatway you are not paying the "monkeys" to damage your
wheels.


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Danny D. wrote:
Paintedcow wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 13:13:55 -0600:

I never knew they make such a thing. Sounds like a good idea though.
A local tire shop will patch a tire for $10 or less, so I just let them
do it


You live in a different world than I live in, because NOTHING
is $10 "or less" at a repair shop. Absolutely NOTHING. Maybe you
live in Kansas or Texas, or some other cheap state, but this is
California. Absolutely nothing is $10.

I just called three local tire-related shops.
Most charged $30 for just the patch (not the patchplug).
The cheapest was $20 for a plug from the outside only.

Anyway, the cost isn't the issue.
They *never* do the job right.

It's not that they don't KNOW how.
It's that their CUSTOMER generally doesn't know how.
So, they cheat.

Every single time.
You can NOT get a good job from them, unless you ride herd on
them, and you may as well just do it yourself.

Besides, I've changed and mounted my own tires using the Harbor
Frieght tool. For low-profile performance tires on aluminum rims,
the job is EASY. As easy (almost) as changing brakes and rotors.

It's not difficult at all (until/unless you get to the really
thick sidewall tires such as SUV tires - which ARE harder!).


You don't balance them when installing yourself?

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On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 17:49:28 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Ralph Mowery wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:44:04 -0500:

I worked at Sears changing and repairing tires and a few other minor
repairs. They had plug/patches similar to them back in 1970. Used a lot of
them.


Yikes! I hate Sears! I promised myself in 1981 that I'd *never* go
to Sears ever again! I tell everyone *not* to go to Sears!

begin rant

When I was young and stupid, I brought my 1970 clunker to Sears for
a $100 alignment.

The car had 90K miles on it and I had failed inspection (in those days,
they lifted the front end and checked for suspension wear).

I brought it to K-Mart, who, for something like $20 told me I needed
to replace the idler arm, the pitman arm, and the tie rod ends.

I replaced all of them, and started to do the alignment but quickly
realized that I just didn't have the tools to MEASURE the angles
correctly (and to convert inches to degrees, etc.). I got as far
as doing the toe but gave up when it came to camber and caster.

I had MARKED EVERYTHING though, with yellow nail polish, because
I wanted a before-and-after look at things (I was pretty detailed,
even then).

So I take it to Sears, pay my $100, and watch they guy. He never
once touched the car, but at one point, I was distracted by the shop
asking me to pay so maybe he did the work while I wasn't looking?

Anyway, I pay and drive home and put the car on a lift to snap
pictures. Guess what. Not a single eccentric was touched! Not one.
I could tell because I was sloppy with the nail polish and not a
single bolt was even MOVED!

The *******s. They stole my money. And my time. And, I'm sure,
I wasn't the only one.

I go back. I complain. They put it on the lift. Not a single thing
was right except for the toe (which "I" had done myself!).

Turns out, they mechanic *ADMITTED* he didn't do a thing!
He said his charts only went back 10 years and my car was 11 years
old! Can you believe that.

I should have complained to high heaven and gotten a refund.
I just let them re-align it.

I wasn't as crotchety when I was young, but I would have complained
to the district attorney or something had I been the age I am now.

It's criminal what Sears does to rip off people.
Absolutely criminal.

I watch all my alignments like a hawk watching a mouse now.
Sears sucks. I will *never* ever go to Sears for the rest of my
life, and I make sure everyone knows how bad they are.

The're criminals.
I'm sorry you worked there, and I do apologize for the diatribe.
It's not your fault they are criminals. It's their fault.

end rant

You can put just about any "chain tire shop" name in place of Sears
and be just as accurate. There are a few good ones of every brand -
but more bad ones.

Independents and to some extent automotive dealers are significantly
better.

I've had issues with Firestomne. BF Goodrich, and in the old days
Uniroyal tire centers all doing the rip-off - either attempting it on
me, or doing it to my customers.
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On Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:56:18 -0500, Micky
wrote:

On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 16:45:40 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

I'm gonna patch my first automotive tire this week.


I just use "strings", with rubber cement, and it works well.
I follow the instructions.

I used to use "plugs'.

My probe/rasp tool finally broke, so I bought a better quality one.
Maybe I bought a better quality of both.



I need your advice on a good inside automotive tire patch
as I got a flat today, switched with the spare, and went
about a half mile to the nearest auto parts store.
https://i.imgur.com/kb3a6rs.jpg

All they had are bike-tire-type patches at the one auto parts
store I stopped at today; they only had crappy passenger tire
patches (little round things, very thin).

I prefer rectangular-cut larger patches (dunno why - I just
feel they might hold better). Those that are something like
three or four inches long or so.

I can easily remove the tire and replace it on the rim
and balance it afterward so this question is only about
the patch. I do not want to patch it from the outside
because I feel that isn't as good as from inside.

Where do you get your inside-tire automotive tire patches?
What type of patch/glue/prep do you recommend?
https://i.imgur.com/InL9A8y.jpg

The plug patch is far superior to the string. I'll use a string in
an emergency - reluctantly.
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On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 13:13:01 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


"Danny D." wrote in message
...
Ralph Mowery wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:44:04 -0500:


Yikes! I hate Sears! I promised myself in 1981 that I'd *never* go
to Sears ever again! I tell everyone *not* to go to Sears!


Turns out, they mechanic *ADMITTED* he didn't do a thing!
He said his charts only went back 10 years and my car was 11 years
old! Can you believe that.

I should have complained to high heaven and gotten a refund.
I just let them re-align it.

I wasn't as crotchety when I was young, but I would have complained
to the district attorney or something had I been the age I am now.

It's criminal what Sears does to rip off people.
Absolutely criminal.

I watch all my alignments like a hawk watching a mouse now.
Sears sucks. I will *never* ever go to Sears for the rest of my
life, and I make sure everyone knows how bad they are.

The're criminals.
I'm sorry you worked there, and I do apologize for the diatribe.
It's not your fault they are criminals. It's their fault.


I was about 19 at the time. Just a part time job while in school.
I don't know about the quality of work, but at that store I know they did
make an attempt at doing whatever was suspose to be done, maybe others
don't.

I do know lots of places will rip you off. Local Ford dealer did to a
friend. He took a car with a V8 to get the plugs changed. It came back
with the same miss in the engine it had. They only changed 7 plugs as the
8th was very hard to get to. He went back and complained and was asked how
he knew the plug was not changed. He said because 7 were of one brand and
the hard to get to was another.

I hate that a local 'shade tree mechanic' got too old and quit. He was an
honest man and good at what he did. I had him to do several jobs for me
like changing a timing belt. He recommended a few othe things such as the
water pump as it was driven by the belt and all it was 4 bolts to do it.
Said it would not be any more labor and just his cost of the part. Bet not
many if any dealers would do that.


Actually quite a few would. I know mine did. It's the only way to keep
customers. Treet them like GOLD. The car salesman sells a customer
his first car from the dealership. The service department sells him
the next - and the next - if there is a next.
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Danny D. wrote:
Paintedcow wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 13:13:55 -0600:

Getting tires off and on rims is not easy without a "tire
machine" and I still would not be able to balance them....


It's very easy to mount and unmount "medium" profile (50 series)
tires on BBS aluminum rims using the Harbor Freight tool.

I have done SUV tires (70 series) too, which are much harder
but still doable.

I wouldn't go any bigger than 17 inch diameter though, nor
any taller than 70 series (and I prefer my 50 series as the
shorter and thinner the sidewall, the easier it is).

The aluminum rims don't get scratched at all (a bit of red
paint, that's it) and the steel rims are actually more of
a pain because in my experience, they're harder to balance
and the weights go on differently (bang on edge versus stick
on the inside).

All you need are three things, none of which are expensive:
1. Compressor (most already have that)
2. Tire Changing Tool (Harbor Freight has them on sale periodically)
3. Static Wheel Balancer (same as above, costs more than the changer)

My first 5 wheel replacement job payed for all the tools as the
price for the tools and weights was almost exactly what it would
have cost for a shop to mount and balance the five tires I had
shipped to my house from Tire Rack.

Obviously you only do a static balancing. Is that good enough for your
driving?


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On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 18:40:21 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Frank wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 13:13:37 -0500:

Company would not honor warranty since I did not return to where I
bought them but the shop where I bought them reimbursed me.


I make every mistake you can make, and I've made that buying tires
by warranty mistake also. In addition, I bought the useless extended
warranty.

Once I tried to return a tire I thought wore too early and the tire
under warranty would cost MORE than a tire NOT under warranty because
I had to have THEM do it, and I had to pay for the mounting and
balancing and I originally bought it on sale where it was no longer
on sale (although I could get it from Tire Rack cheaper!).

End result, even *with* the pro-rated warranty, the replacement tire
under warranty cost more than that same tire (same exact brand and
model!) not on warranty!

Likewise, I have paid for the extended warranty, which, when you bring
a tire back, they told me that alignment wasn't covered (which may
be true - but then why did I bother). So I never buy extended or
by warranty ever again.

Also, I used to get tires at Costco for the "free" mounting and
balancing and repair, but, unfortunately, the *wait* at Costco is
forever (hours and hours) so it's not worth it unless you drop it
off and come back (which isn't convenient for me).

So, I forgo all warranties and just buy tires from Tire Rack by
performance and price and fit. And I mount them myself now that
Harbor Freight sells that nice red mounting kit. And I balance
them statically, very carefully - and since they have expensive
rims, they're almost perfect and don't vibrate at all. Who knew
that dynamic balancing was a waste? I didn't. Until I tried the
static balancing.

Which so far works perfectly for me.

I've ballanced many a tire dynamically that was in perfect static
ballance but caused severe high speed shimmy. I've even balanced tires
that had been "road force balanced and still shook - and gotten rid of
the shake. I used to balance within 1/8 ounce and could get a V rated
tire dead smooth to over 140MPH.

Try that with a bubble ballancer. Particualarly on something like a
2555/50 rire.
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wrote:
On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 17:39:02 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Frank wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:23:09 -0500:

Interesting to learn this:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=77

Wondered why it cost me $30 to get a tire repaired a few years ago.
The tire has held up well.


Out here, at $100/hour shop rates, it could easily cost more just
for the labor, plus you have to rebalance and they often destroy
the valve and they are brutal on your expensive soft rims!

I'm sick and tired of the brutish monkeys prying off my BBS
hubcaps with screwdrivers, damaging the soft rims, torquing
the lug bolts to 100 foot pounds instead of 84, not removing
the old weights when balancing, putting the same psi into
all four wheels, etc. They're just horrid.

So, I'm just gonna do it myself.

But that takes knowledge, so, I'm glad you pointed me to that
web page. It shows that you don't want *air* to get in between
the plies, so that's important to put the plug in there to
prevent air from sneaking in between the plies.

They call them "mushroom" patches in that article and they
say that the patch keeps air in and the plug keeps air and
moisture out of the plies.

I just want to do the job right, instead of letting the monkeys
do the job wrong. This will take all the advice you know of!



Take the tire off yourself. Take it to the shop for repair. Remount it
yourself. Thatway you are not paying the "monkeys" to damage your
wheels.

All my family cars have 2 sets of tires on OEM wheels.(summer and
winter) I swap them out when season changes, rotate them as well at
home.
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wrote:
On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 17:49:28 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Ralph Mowery wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:44:04 -0500:

I worked at Sears changing and repairing tires and a few other minor
repairs. They had plug/patches similar to them back in 1970. Used a lot of
them.


Yikes! I hate Sears! I promised myself in 1981 that I'd *never* go
to Sears ever again! I tell everyone *not* to go to Sears!

begin rant

When I was young and stupid, I brought my 1970 clunker to Sears for
a $100 alignment.

The car had 90K miles on it and I had failed inspection (in those days,
they lifted the front end and checked for suspension wear).

I brought it to K-Mart, who, for something like $20 told me I needed
to replace the idler arm, the pitman arm, and the tie rod ends.

I replaced all of them, and started to do the alignment but quickly
realized that I just didn't have the tools to MEASURE the angles
correctly (and to convert inches to degrees, etc.). I got as far
as doing the toe but gave up when it came to camber and caster.

I had MARKED EVERYTHING though, with yellow nail polish, because
I wanted a before-and-after look at things (I was pretty detailed,
even then).

So I take it to Sears, pay my $100, and watch they guy. He never
once touched the car, but at one point, I was distracted by the shop
asking me to pay so maybe he did the work while I wasn't looking?

Anyway, I pay and drive home and put the car on a lift to snap
pictures. Guess what. Not a single eccentric was touched! Not one.
I could tell because I was sloppy with the nail polish and not a
single bolt was even MOVED!

The *******s. They stole my money. And my time. And, I'm sure,
I wasn't the only one.

I go back. I complain. They put it on the lift. Not a single thing
was right except for the toe (which "I" had done myself!).

Turns out, they mechanic *ADMITTED* he didn't do a thing!
He said his charts only went back 10 years and my car was 11 years
old! Can you believe that.

I should have complained to high heaven and gotten a refund.
I just let them re-align it.

I wasn't as crotchety when I was young, but I would have complained
to the district attorney or something had I been the age I am now.

It's criminal what Sears does to rip off people.
Absolutely criminal.

I watch all my alignments like a hawk watching a mouse now.
Sears sucks. I will *never* ever go to Sears for the rest of my
life, and I make sure everyone knows how bad they are.

The're criminals.
I'm sorry you worked there, and I do apologize for the diatribe.
It's not your fault they are criminals. It's their fault.

end rant

You can put just about any "chain tire shop" name in place of Sears
and be just as accurate. There are a few good ones of every brand -
but more bad ones.

Independents and to some extent automotive dealers are significantly
better.

I've had issues with Firestomne. BF Goodrich, and in the old days
Uniroyal tire centers all doing the rip-off - either attempting it on
me, or doing it to my customers.

I found out tire jobs at dealers don't really cost more.
Same with any service at dealership where we purchase(trade in)
our cars.
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On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 19:51:10 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

(PS: Where the hell is Oren & Chris?)


I'm here. Polishing bullets and deciding on another gun
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On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 19:51:10 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

I am the same. I "do" buy Craftsman tools, although, lately, Harbor
Frieght tools work fine - but - maybe because I already have all the
basic tools, so, what I need are things like tire changers and
static balancers nowadays (not wrenches and screwdrivers).


Harbor Freight is the LAST place I'd buy tools. I have been dissatisfied
with almost everything from them. If I want cheaper tools, I usually buy
the "Toolshop" branded stuff from Menards. Most of their tools have been
fairly decent. Otherwise I'll pay the higher price and get Craftsman or
at least the middle of the road brands like Stanley or Black & Decker.



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clare wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 15:45:00 -0500:

I've ballanced many a tire dynamically that was in perfect static
ballance but caused severe high speed shimmy. I've even balanced tires
that had been "road force balanced and still shook - and gotten rid of
the shake. I used to balance within 1/8 ounce and could get a V rated
tire dead smooth to over 140MPH.

Try that with a bubble ballancer. Particualarly on something like a
2555/50 rire.


I know. I know. I know. I know.
I know what you're saying even BEFORE you said it.

All I can tell you is that I bought the tools.
I then mounted only 5 tires on BBS rims with the HF mounting tool.
I balanced each one meticulously with a static balancer from HF.
And my car does NOT shake shimmy or vibrate at any speed.

What does *that* tell you?

If my car shook, shimmied, or vibrated, *then* I would start looking
at balance (among a ton of other things like suspension and tire pressure
differences and tread differences and shocks, alignment, etc.).

That's all I can tell you.

Clearly, if my tire vibrated at speed, I would take it to a shop, and
pay them $30 to test ride the car, and then they would *tell* me if
it was alignment or balance or a worn suspension, etc.

What I'm saying is that you do NOT need to ALWAYS dynamically balance.
If you mount your own tires, you get the CHOICE.

I do realize that if you have a shop do your tires (which 99.99999% of
you do), then dynamic balance is thrown in with the standard charge, so
there is no sense in NOT getting dynamically balanced.

But, in "my" case, dynamic balancing would be a waste.

Or, are you saying, that I secretly have a vibration that I don't
know about yet?
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On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 13:45:35 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 17:39:02 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Frank wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:23:09 -0500:

Interesting to learn this:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=77

Wondered why it cost me $30 to get a tire repaired a few years ago.
The tire has held up well.

Out here, at $100/hour shop rates, it could easily cost more just
for the labor, plus you have to rebalance and they often destroy
the valve and they are brutal on your expensive soft rims!

I'm sick and tired of the brutish monkeys prying off my BBS
hubcaps with screwdrivers, damaging the soft rims, torquing
the lug bolts to 100 foot pounds instead of 84, not removing
the old weights when balancing, putting the same psi into
all four wheels, etc. They're just horrid.

So, I'm just gonna do it myself.

But that takes knowledge, so, I'm glad you pointed me to that
web page. It shows that you don't want *air* to get in between
the plies, so that's important to put the plug in there to
prevent air from sneaking in between the plies.

They call them "mushroom" patches in that article and they
say that the patch keeps air in and the plug keeps air and
moisture out of the plies.

I just want to do the job right, instead of letting the monkeys
do the job wrong. This will take all the advice you know of!



Take the tire off yourself. Take it to the shop for repair. Remount it
yourself. Thatway you are not paying the "monkeys" to damage your
wheels.

All my family cars have 2 sets of tires on OEM wheels.(summer and
winter) I swap them out when season changes, rotate them as well at
home.

What's that got to do with the price of chicken milk on thursdays???
We are talking about REPAIRING a tire.
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On Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:56:18 -0500, Micky
wrote:


On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 16:45:40 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

I'm gonna patch my first automotive tire this week.


I just use "strings", with rubber cement, and it works well.
I follow the instructions.


I should add that with the strings, you stuff the folded string in the
hole, then when the probe is in the tire, you rotate it a couple
turns, and that make a "ball" of string inside the tire, so the string
doesn't come out. That's why the probe shouldn't be a comple 0, but
have an opening in the side, like a C, so that it will come loose and
you can pull it out without any of the string.

I used to use "plugs'.


They worked well too.

My probe/rasp tool finally broke, so I bought a better quality one.
Maybe I bought a better quality of both.


Some webpage pointed to by some post here said holes up to 1/4" but my
impression is that a 3/8 or evne 1/2 screw makes a hole that is bigger
than 1/4" when something is holding the hole open, but closes down to
almost nothing when the screw is removed. ???
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On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 13:47:58 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 17:49:28 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Ralph Mowery wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:44:04 -0500:

I worked at Sears changing and repairing tires and a few other minor
repairs. They had plug/patches similar to them back in 1970. Used a lot of
them.

Yikes! I hate Sears! I promised myself in 1981 that I'd *never* go
to Sears ever again! I tell everyone *not* to go to Sears!

begin rant

When I was young and stupid, I brought my 1970 clunker to Sears for
a $100 alignment.

The car had 90K miles on it and I had failed inspection (in those days,
they lifted the front end and checked for suspension wear).

I brought it to K-Mart, who, for something like $20 told me I needed
to replace the idler arm, the pitman arm, and the tie rod ends.

I replaced all of them, and started to do the alignment but quickly
realized that I just didn't have the tools to MEASURE the angles
correctly (and to convert inches to degrees, etc.). I got as far
as doing the toe but gave up when it came to camber and caster.

I had MARKED EVERYTHING though, with yellow nail polish, because
I wanted a before-and-after look at things (I was pretty detailed,
even then).

So I take it to Sears, pay my $100, and watch they guy. He never
once touched the car, but at one point, I was distracted by the shop
asking me to pay so maybe he did the work while I wasn't looking?

Anyway, I pay and drive home and put the car on a lift to snap
pictures. Guess what. Not a single eccentric was touched! Not one.
I could tell because I was sloppy with the nail polish and not a
single bolt was even MOVED!

The *******s. They stole my money. And my time. And, I'm sure,
I wasn't the only one.

I go back. I complain. They put it on the lift. Not a single thing
was right except for the toe (which "I" had done myself!).

Turns out, they mechanic *ADMITTED* he didn't do a thing!
He said his charts only went back 10 years and my car was 11 years
old! Can you believe that.

I should have complained to high heaven and gotten a refund.
I just let them re-align it.

I wasn't as crotchety when I was young, but I would have complained
to the district attorney or something had I been the age I am now.

It's criminal what Sears does to rip off people.
Absolutely criminal.

I watch all my alignments like a hawk watching a mouse now.
Sears sucks. I will *never* ever go to Sears for the rest of my
life, and I make sure everyone knows how bad they are.

The're criminals.
I'm sorry you worked there, and I do apologize for the diatribe.
It's not your fault they are criminals. It's their fault.

end rant

You can put just about any "chain tire shop" name in place of Sears
and be just as accurate. There are a few good ones of every brand -
but more bad ones.

Independents and to some extent automotive dealers are significantly
better.

I've had issues with Firestomne. BF Goodrich, and in the old days
Uniroyal tire centers all doing the rip-off - either attempting it on
me, or doing it to my customers.

I found out tire jobs at dealers don't really cost more.
Same with any service at dealership where we purchase(trade in)
our cars.

I can generally also buy the parts I require to do my own repairs
cheaper from the dealer than from the autoparts store - and almost
ALWAYS cheaper than on-line when you factor in the shipping.
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clare wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 15:32:24 -0500:

Take the tire off yourself. Take it to the shop for repair. Remount it
yourself. Thatway you are not paying the "monkeys" to damage your
wheels.


This I thought was a joke, but, I called Wheel Works, and guess what!
If I bring in the tire, they will patch it with the plug/patch, for free!

Yep. For free!
Woo hoo.

It doesn't matter that Tire Rack sold me the tires and that I installed
them myself.

Perfect.

1. I can remove the tire easily.
2. I bring it to Wheel Works
3. They patch it correctly, for free.

I asked them over and over again "are you sure it's free?", and they
said yes. I told them they're crazy; but I like their kind of crazy.

I'll let you know what happens.


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clare wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 16:33:36 -0500:

What's that got to do with the price of chicken milk on thursdays???
We are talking about REPAIRING a tire.


Specifically about:
1. Removing and replacing the tire on the rim ourself, and,
2. Patching a hole in the tire, and,
3. Perhaps dealing with balance issues thereafter.

Choosing the patch seems to be *easy* now that I know there is only
one kind of patch to choose.

BTW, I called Midas (whom I hate), Goodyear, and Wheel Works.
Midas and Goodyear only patch or plug but not both.
Wheel Works does a patch/plug, and they do it for free!

No more calls for me.
That's too easy to ignore.

I will let you know what happens (I accidentally left the key in
the ignition when I needed to straighten the wheels to jack up the
car so I'm charging my battery as we speak).

Sigh.
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clare wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 15:40:32 -0500:

Actually quite a few would. I know mine did. It's the only way to keep
customers. Treet them like GOLD. The car salesman sells a customer
his first car from the dealership. The service department sells him
the next - and the next - if there is a next.


I have a beemer.
It breaks a lot.

The dealer service department gives me plenty of free soda and coffee.
And then they charge four hundred dollars to replace a battery.

No thanks.
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Danny D. wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 21:44:31 +0000:

I have a beemer.
It breaks a lot.

The dealer service department gives me plenty of free soda and coffee.
And then they charge four hundred dollars to replace a battery.


The bimmer costs even more because it has twice as many wheels
and a far larger battery.

No thanks on anything at the dealer other than a warranty or recall
repair (which should be free).
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clare wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 16:34:53 -0500:

I can generally also buy the parts I require to do my own repairs
cheaper from the dealer than from the autoparts store - and almost
ALWAYS cheaper than on-line when you factor in the shipping.


I must agree that *shipping* on tires from Tire Rack, even when it
just ships by UPS from Nevada to California, still costs about $25
per tire.

So, at $100 per tire times five, the tires cost $500 but shipping alone
is $125 which is huge compared to the sales tax on $500 which is only about
$50 (roughly) if bought at a tire store.

So, the way to go, if you can find it, is to find a place that *matches*
tire rack prices for the tires, and then it only charges the 10% (or whatever)
sales tax, and then you have no shipping costs.

Tires are odd that way, because they cost a *lot* to ship.
Usually shipping and tax cancel each other out; but not with tires.

Sigh.
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Oren wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:49:50 -0800:

I'm here. Polishing bullets and deciding on another gun


Hey. Good t' hear from ya!
How'z them huckleberries?

PS: If/when I decide to get a gun (when I get rid of all my sister's
children living with me and the grandchildren don't visit me n'mo'),
I'll have to ask you which one.

I'm kind'a thinking I'd like a 9mm, maybe Ruger?
Or a revolver (fewer screwups when you're shooting scared?).

I kind'a like the 9mm though (for home protection).

Yes, I know a shotgun is the best way to go for home defense, but, I
like the pistol better for some reason better.

We had a few robberies up here, so that's what got me thinkin'.
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