"olddog" wrote in message
...
I've had back problems literally all my life but nothing compared to your
agony. Good luck with that dude.

Chiropractors seem to be getting better and more doctors are accepting the
benefits of manipulation. My HMO in NM used to cover chiropractor visits in
their clinics. But you had to have a MD's referral/

Your accident is a good example of the need to get good x-rays examined by a
competent Osteopath before letting a Chiropractor do his thing. IMHO



I doubt very seriously that his back problem is anything more than simple
muscular strain. I know it hurts more than most things but the chances are
that's all there is to it. If you have them laying around the house alternate
pain killers with muscle relaxers. Get in the recliner or bed (whichever feels
better) and stay there. Plan on babying your back for at least a couple of
days, maybe longer. Don't stretch; don't exercise. REST.

OTOH, if you develop any numbness in your feet or legs you should get to a
doctor immediately. Do not put it off until tomorrow. You may not be able to
walk tomorrow.... and it might be permanent if you delay. Lightning bolts down
the leg don't qualify as an emergency; it's sciatic pain and can be treated at a
more leisurely pace.

Back problems fall in the overlap between neurosurgery and orthopedic surgery.
There is no consensus over who does the best work; it's more the man than the
specialty. Any practitioner worth a damn will be very reluctant to schedule any
surgery. The usual treatments involve painkillers, skeletal muscle relaxers,
and steroids such a Medrol dose packs. Hot showers feel great too.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

clipped




Best docs I have known for treating/managing chronic pain (backs,
amputees, etc.) were physiatrists.



Really? Thats a new one on me! Then again, chronic depression is not
uncommon for people with chronic pain, so it's not that far off the
ballpark.




Nooooooo.......I didn't write "psychiatrist"........it's "physiatrist".

More here if you are interested:
http://aapmr.org/condtreat/what.htm

"cshenk" wrote in message
...
"olddog" wrote

interested in doing a few manipulations. He took serious x-rays and gave
me a long term treatment plan. He was pretty straight forward. I couldn't
afford it but I have no doubt he would of helped me.

Actually been meaning to mention this but X-rays alone arent really what's
needed. MRI is also needed as some things will not show on X-rays.




I've never been serious enough to warrant MRI's. I think you have to have
some signs of nerve interference and my reflexes and muscle strength have
remained intact.

Olddog

Red Green wrote in
:

"cshenk" wrote in
:

"Oren" wrote

Get yourself a Chiropractor RIGHT now, don't wait 12 days after you
have to crawl to the toilet in pain.

Oren, the reason why I'd not recommend that as first step, is without
knowing more, a chiro can in some cases unwittingly do more damage
than cure.

I dont know if all chiros are MD's. I just know mine is. He works
with my spine surgeon to help defer surgical level needs as long as
possible for people like me.





a chiro can in some cases unwittingly do more damage
than cure.


This is EXACTLY why I said in my post not a chiro. I didwant to so
into stories but here's the short version. Back messed up so bad I had
to walk hunched over. Roll over in bed, even though almost impossible
to fall asleep, and wake in tears. I go to chiro for first time. He
does the xrays, twisting, crunching, stupid wires with tingle pulses
and all. Not getting better. Got the msg from my body via pain that
something is wrong so now is the time for pain meds. Says he doesn't
give pain meds. Screw this. Go to neuro doctor. Turns out I had a
bulged disk ready to bust...and this ****ing asshole is beating on it.
Never again. Never recommend.


And here's "The rest of the story":


As Mortimer Schnerd, RN sais in his post:

Back problems fall in the overlap between neurosurgery and orthopedic
surgery.
...
Any practitioner worth a damn will be...
very reluctant to schedule any surgery.


I did end up going to a neurosurgeon. She says no surgery without full test
results. Had X-rays, tests, CT scan (or something like it), etc., etc.
Went back for results and plan consultation.

Try and picture this. She's a neurosurgeon originally from Bayone NJ so you
can fill in the accent and vernacular. She has large frame for woman but
nor really fat. She says no surgery. I'm like OK so then what? She has a
skirt on. Crosses her legs with meaty thigh somewhat raised. Says to me
"You and I have the same problem." Whacks her thigh and says, "I got a fat
ass and I gotta live with it. You got a bad back and gotta live with it." I
says lady your alright in my book for not dancing around things. At least
now I have some concrete direction.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in
:


"HeyBub" wrote in message

Chiropractors are NOT MDs. The fundamental theory behind chirpractic
is that all or most human maladies are the result of pressure on
nerves, usually caused by misalignment of the spine. By first putting
you under an X-ray machine until you glow in the dark, a chiropractor
will "manipulate" your spine until your bee-bite, pancreatic cancer,
or dandruff is cured.

The human body has remarkable regenerative powers. Interestingly, the
length of time required for the body to heal both with and without
chiropractic intervention is the same. The chiropractor may, however,
make you feel a bit better, but a visit to a "massage parlor" is
cheaper.

Depends on the problem. I've been to a chiropractor for some problems
and had pretty much instant relief. I'm talking about a stiff neck or
sacroiliac dislocation. One good push works faster than muscle
relaxers. I don't go there for heart problems, cancer, pneumonia,
etc.




I don't go there for heart problems, cancer, pneumonia,

Lackanookie would be another. Refer that to Oren's post :-)


Subject: I strained my back - OUCH
From: Oren
...

In legitimate instances a massage parlor may be adjacent the
chiropractor's office, next door and be covered by medical insurance.

clipped


I did end up going to a neurosurgeon. She says no surgery without full test
results. Had X-rays, tests, CT scan (or something like it), etc., etc.
Went back for results and plan consultation.

Try and picture this. She's a neurosurgeon originally from Bayone NJ so you
can fill in the accent and vernacular. She has large frame for woman but
nor really fat. She says no surgery. I'm like OK so then what? She has a
skirt on. Crosses her legs with meaty thigh somewhat raised. Says to me
"You and I have the same problem." Whacks her thigh and says, "I got a fat
ass and I gotta live with it. You got a bad back and gotta live with it." I
says lady your alright in my book for not dancing around things. At least
now I have some concrete direction.


You can probably pick any diagnosis you wish to from a medical text and
be able to find a surgeon who
will perform surgery for it. Unfortunately, back surgery (along with
tonsillectomies, hysterectomies, etc.)
were once done far too often. When I last worked, 12 years ago, many
surgeons would not even discuss
disc surgery (unless certain neuropathy was present) without a course of
physical therapy. Lots of
studies show that far too many disc surgeries not only did not improve
pain or function but caused it to
worsen. Obesity and lack of conditioning have a great deal to do with
back problems and surgery
outcomes.

Last I paid attention, about 30% of live births were by c-section.
Criminal. Often done just for
convenience.

"olddog" wrote in news:rPR1l.208763$Mh5.89217@bgtnsc04-
news.ops.worldnet.att.net:


wrote in message
...
for my lower back,i do slow touch my toes from a standing up
straight position. helps me alot, but every injury is different i guess.

----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm



LOL. If I could touch my toes I wouldn't have back problems. ;-)

Olddog




ROTFL!!

Norminn wrote in
m:

clipped


I did end up going to a neurosurgeon. She says no surgery without full
test results. Had X-rays, tests, CT scan (or something like it), etc.,
etc. Went back for results and plan consultation.

Try and picture this. She's a neurosurgeon originally from Bayone NJ
so you can fill in the accent and vernacular. She has large frame for
woman but nor really fat. She says no surgery. I'm like OK so then
what? She has a skirt on. Crosses her legs with meaty thigh somewhat
raised. Says to me "You and I have the same problem." Whacks her thigh
and says, "I got a fat ass and I gotta live with it. You got a bad
back and gotta live with it." I says lady your alright in my book for
not dancing around things. At least now I have some concrete
direction.


You can probably pick any diagnosis you wish to from a medical text
and be able to find a surgeon who
will perform surgery for it. Unfortunately, back surgery (along with
tonsillectomies, hysterectomies, etc.)
were once done far too often. When I last worked, 12 years ago, many
surgeons would not even discuss
disc surgery (unless certain neuropathy was present) without a course
of physical therapy. Lots of
studies show that far too many disc surgeries not only did not improve
pain or function but caused it to
worsen. Obesity and lack of conditioning have a great deal to do with
back problems and surgery
outcomes.

Last I paid attention, about 30% of live births were by c-section.
Criminal. Often done just for
convenience.



Obesity and lack of conditioning have a great deal to do with
back problems and surgery
outcomes.

Well I just bust my ass doing these houses with a lot of physical stuff.
It's when I don't do this kind of stuff that I'm more likely to have
issues and I haven't had any issues in years. So I guess that's
conditioning. As far as obesity, I had 1/3 of my body in a 12" kitchen
cabinet yesterday and got out without dialing 911.

"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote in
:


"Dick Adams" wrote in message
...
Noahbuddy wrote:

MDs will load you up on Meds. MDs did nothing for me.
A Chiro fixed my problems.

I'm very sorry to read that. I've had 14 surgeries in the
last 5-1/2 years. Without being loaded up on meds, I don't
think I could have taken the pain of half of them.

Dick

Most of the anti drug crusaders haven't experienced the 12 level of
pain on a scale of 1 to 10.

Ask anyone in the kidney stone club.

I have not had that luxury but I heard someone describe it as: To you it
looks like a tiny pea. To me it's a bowling ball covered in barbed wire.

Or someone who has had a major
major injury or surgery.

I take about 400 doses of meds per month, about 100 of those are pain
meds. Some days I take none, and some days, I take four or five.

I'm not going to suffer when there is relief. I don't take them to
alter my mood or get goofy.

Steve

"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote in message
...
I take about 400 doses of meds per month, about 100 of those are pain meds.
Some days I take none, and some days, I take four or five.

I'm not going to suffer when there is relief. I don't take them to alter my
mood or get goofy.


That is a ****load of medication. What happened to you that requires all of
that? (I'm not suggesting it's not required; just wondering why.)

I myself was in a plane crash back in the late 80's, suffered an incomplete
amputation of one arm (reattached) and crushed a hip. I went through a period
of using a lot of pain meds, then nothing at all for a very long time; then by
the early 2000s I was using an ungodly amount of NSAIDs. I finally got the
crushed hip replaced. Getting rid of the bad hip fixed most of my ongoing
problems with low back pain (caused by lurching when I walked). Today I'm not
on any medication at all. Nothing. I consider myself very fortunate.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

"olddog" wrote
"olddog" wrote

Actually been meaning to mention this but X-rays alone arent really
what's needed. MRI is also needed as some things will not show on
X-rays.

I've never been serious enough to warrant MRI's. I think you have to have
some signs of nerve interference and my reflexes and muscle strength have
remained intact.

Lucky you ;-) Keep it that way! Although I'm not the worst off here (and
do NOT wanna be either!) I'm well in the MRI range. Had my second full
series spinal MRI from head to tailbone a bit ago to match against the other
one taken in Jan07. Groan, now Doc is thinking to do my ankles, knees,
elbows, and wrists. Xrays arent optimal for soft tissue damage.

"Red Green" wrote

Try and picture this. She's a neurosurgeon originally from Bayone NJ so
you
can fill in the accent and vernacular. She has large frame for woman but
nor really fat. She says no surgery. I'm like OK so then what? She has a
skirt on. Crosses her legs with meaty thigh somewhat raised. Says to me
"You and I have the same problem." Whacks her thigh and says, "I got a fat
ass and I gotta live with it. You got a bad back and gotta live with it."
I
says lady your alright in my book for not dancing around things. At least
now I have some concrete direction.

LOL! My kinda Doc! She's right too. I doubt the fellow has more than
muscular strain but some of us others (as you can see from the size of the
thread, OT as it may be) can give some basics.

Mortimer will agree with this:

General rules, specifics may vary in some cases.

-Use a chiro your Doc recommends.
-If any numbness, tingling, or 'it feels asleep or half asleep' see a Doc
before a Chiro.
-Numbness and/or tingling in groin especially if urination is difficult,
emergency room.
-Pain is how your body says something is wrong. Do not stretch if it hurts.
-If stretching hurts, have a Doc evaluate it if serious pain and dont do
that again til then

Red Green wrote:

Try and picture this. She's a neurosurgeon originally from Bayone NJ
so you can fill in the accent and vernacular. She has large frame for
woman but nor really fat. She says no surgery. I'm like OK so then
what? She has a skirt on. Crosses her legs with meaty thigh somewhat
raised. Says to me "You and I have the same problem." Whacks her
thigh and says, "I got a fat ass and I gotta live with it. You got a
bad back and gotta live with it." I says lady your alright in my book
for not dancing around things. At least now I have some concrete
direction.

You gotta admire docs that are real people.

I visited my internist shortly after the current pope's election. Knowing my
doctor was of Vietnamese extraction, I asked if he was Catholic - I was
going to congratulate him on his church's new Pontiff.

His answer:

"Depends on the girl I'm dating at the time."

I want to thank everyone for the constructive advise.

I am happy to report that my conditions have improved every day.

Sunday after I strained my back, I could not stand up or sit down without
pain in the lower back. I was basically useless, walking was a real strain.

I had a night of sleep and Monday morning I woke up, and I felt a bit
better, but turning in bed is sore. Getting out of bed was a real struggle.
I could walk, but walk like a Frankenstein, no leaning in or anything.
Again, sitting down and getting up was bad, but I could feel a general
improvement. I did nothing but relax and slowly moving around. Did not go
into work.

Tuesday I got up and felt better. Still trouble getting up and sitting
down. I found the worst to do is to sit down in front of the computer to
work, and then after an hour trying to get up makes it most painful. Seems
the muscles hate being in that position, so I didn't do that much. I tried
to go into work in the afternoon, I made it out to the driveway and got into
the driver seat with some difficulty but I managed, but then I forgotten
something in the house and had to get out and go back in...the getting out
of the seat and planting my feet on the ground, that was a struggle, I
decided going to work was not a good idea, especially I have not tried
climbing stairs yet. So I went back in and stayed home. I did not do any
exercise except to lay on my back and lift my knees slowly to my chest, very
slowly, and I did that in small repetitions. Don't know if that makes it
any better, but I don't think it made it any worse. I did not strain while
I did it.

Today I got up and felt much better. Still walking like an Egyptian a bit,
but I could slightly lean forward without pain.

I am hopeful that by the end of the week I will be back to normal except I
don't think I can do any heavy duty work at the house for a few weeks.

I have not seen any MD or chiro yet. No, no numbness on my legs or
anywhere.

MC

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in message
...


"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote in message
...
I take about 400 doses of meds per month, about 100 of those are pain
meds. Some days I take none, and some days, I take four or five.

I'm not going to suffer when there is relief. I don't take them to alter
my mood or get goofy.


That is a ****load of medication. What happened to you that requires all
of that? (I'm not suggesting it's not required; just wondering why.)

I myself was in a plane crash back in the late 80's, suffered an
incomplete amputation of one arm (reattached) and crushed a hip. I went
through a period of using a lot of pain meds, then nothing at all for a
very long time; then by the early 2000s I was using an ungodly amount of
NSAIDs. I finally got the crushed hip replaced. Getting rid of the bad
hip fixed most of my ongoing problems with low back pain (caused by
lurching when I walked). Today I'm not on any medication at all.
Nothing. I consider myself very fortunate.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Knee operation. Three shoulder operations. 8.5 hour 5 way bypass with
aortic valve replacement, 1 cm. crush fracture of L1 vertebra, ascending
aortic aneurysm, arthritis, degenerative cervical spondylosys, traumatic
brain injury, high blood pressure, anticoagulant blood monitoring for heart
valve, angina, cholesterol maintenance, and ............ probably something
else I can't think of.

When you get older, two things fail you. Memory is the first, and I don't
recall the second.

"MiamiCuse" wrote in message
...
I want to thank everyone for the constructive advise.

I am happy to report that my conditions have improved every day.

Sunday after I strained my back, I could not stand up or sit down without
pain in the lower back. I was basically useless, walking was a real
strain.

I had a night of sleep and Monday morning I woke up, and I felt a bit
better, but turning in bed is sore. Getting out of bed was a real
struggle. I could walk, but walk like a Frankenstein, no leaning in or
anything. Again, sitting down and getting up was bad, but I could feel a
general improvement. I did nothing but relax and slowly moving around.
Did not go into work.

Tuesday I got up and felt better. Still trouble getting up and sitting
down. I found the worst to do is to sit down in front of the computer to
work, and then after an hour trying to get up makes it most painful.
Seems the muscles hate being in that position, so I didn't do that much.
I tried to go into work in the afternoon, I made it out to the driveway
and got into the driver seat with some difficulty but I managed, but then
I forgotten something in the house and had to get out and go back in...the
getting out of the seat and planting my feet on the ground, that was a
struggle, I decided going to work was not a good idea, especially I have
not tried climbing stairs yet. So I went back in and stayed home. I did
not do any exercise except to lay on my back and lift my knees slowly to
my chest, very slowly, and I did that in small repetitions. Don't know if
that makes it any better, but I don't think it made it any worse. I did
not strain while I did it.

Today I got up and felt much better. Still walking like an Egyptian a
bit, but I could slightly lean forward without pain.

I am hopeful that by the end of the week I will be back to normal except I
don't think I can do any heavy duty work at the house for a few weeks.

I have not seen any MD or chiro yet. No, no numbness on my legs or
anywhere.

MC

See, I told you that would feel better when it quit hurting. Time is a good
healer. For many problems.

Steve

MiamiCuse wrote:

I want to thank everyone for the constructive advise.

I am happy to report that my conditions have improved every day.

Sunday after I strained my back, I could not stand up or sit down without
pain in the lower back. I was basically useless, walking was a real strain.

I had a night of sleep and Monday morning I woke up, and I felt a bit
better, but turning in bed is sore. Getting out of bed was a real struggle.
I could walk, but walk like a Frankenstein, no leaning in or anything.
Again, sitting down and getting up was bad, but I could feel a general
improvement. I did nothing but relax and slowly moving around. Did not go
into work.

Tuesday I got up and felt better. Still trouble getting up and sitting
down. I found the worst to do is to sit down in front of the computer to
work, and then after an hour trying to get up makes it most painful. Seems
the muscles hate being in that position, so I didn't do that much. I tried
to go into work in the afternoon, I made it out to the driveway and got into
the driver seat with some difficulty but I managed, but then I forgotten
something in the house and had to get out and go back in...the getting out
of the seat and planting my feet on the ground, that was a struggle, I
decided going to work was not a good idea, especially I have not tried
climbing stairs yet. So I went back in and stayed home. I did not do any
exercise except to lay on my back and lift my knees slowly to my chest, very
slowly, and I did that in small repetitions. Don't know if that makes it
any better, but I don't think it made it any worse. I did not strain while
I did it.

Today I got up and felt much better. Still walking like an Egyptian a bit,
but I could slightly lean forward without pain.

I am hopeful that by the end of the week I will be back to normal except I
don't think I can do any heavy duty work at the house for a few weeks.

I have not seen any MD or chiro yet. No, no numbness on my legs or
anywhere.

MC




Very glad to hear that you are better. Just food for thought ......sore
muscles, muscle strains, are
TORN muscle fibers. I would not do any stretching.....it is kind of
like taking a healing laceration
and trying to spread it apart. Pain needs to heal. Heat probably will
help comfort at this point,
to make LIMITED movement easier. You are right, no heavy work for a few
weeks.

"MiamiCuse" writes:

Today I got up and felt much better. Still walking like an Egyptian a bit,
but I could slightly lean forward without pain.

Sounds to me like you would benefit a lot from a muscle relaxant.

You would have to visit an MD.

"MiamiCuse" wrote in
:

I want to thank everyone for the constructive advise.

I am happy to report that my conditions have improved every day.

Sunday after I strained my back, I could not stand up or sit down
without pain in the lower back. I was basically useless, walking was
a real strain.

I had a night of sleep and Monday morning I woke up, and I felt a bit
better, but turning in bed is sore. Getting out of bed was a real
struggle. I could walk, but walk like a Frankenstein, no leaning in or
anything. Again, sitting down and getting up was bad, but I could feel
a general improvement. I did nothing but relax and slowly moving
around. Did not go into work.

Tuesday I got up and felt better. Still trouble getting up and
sitting down. I found the worst to do is to sit down in front of the
computer to work, and then after an hour trying to get up makes it
most painful. Seems the muscles hate being in that position, so I
didn't do that much. I tried to go into work in the afternoon, I made
it out to the driveway and got into the driver seat with some
difficulty but I managed, but then I forgotten something in the house
and had to get out and go back in...the getting out of the seat and
planting my feet on the ground, that was a struggle, I decided going
to work was not a good idea, especially I have not tried climbing
stairs yet. So I went back in and stayed home. I did not do any
exercise except to lay on my back and lift my knees slowly to my
chest, very slowly, and I did that in small repetitions. Don't know
if that makes it any better, but I don't think it made it any worse.
I did not strain while I did it.

Today I got up and felt much better. Still walking like an Egyptian a
bit, but I could slightly lean forward without pain.

I am hopeful that by the end of the week I will be back to normal
except I don't think I can do any heavy duty work at the house for a
few weeks.

I have not seen any MD or chiro yet. No, no numbness on my legs or
anywhere.

MC



Good to hear. So many of us have actually felt the pain!

I tried to go into work in the afternoon, I made
it out to the driveway and got into the driver seat.

Kinda glad you didn't MC....since you would have driven yourself. How do
you think it would have went if you had to jam on the brake suddenly?

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 23:46:31 -0800, "SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas
wrote:


"Dick Adams" wrote in message
...
Noahbuddy wrote:

MDs will load you up on Meds. MDs did nothing for me.
A Chiro fixed my problems.

I'm very sorry to read that. I've had 14 surgeries in the
last 5-1/2 years. Without being loaded up on meds, I don't
think I could have taken the pain of half of them.

Dick

Most of the anti drug crusaders haven't experienced the 12 level of pain on
a scale of 1 to 10.

Ask anyone in the kidney stone club. Or someone who has had a major major
injury or surgery.

I take about 400 doses of meds per month, about 100 of those are pain meds.
Some days I take none, and some days, I take four or five.

I'm not going to suffer when there is relief. I don't take them to alter my
mood or get goofy.

Steve



All of the prescription pain medication I've taken (after joint
surgery, back pain, etc.) made me sicker than a dog, then vomit. I
prefer heating pads, ice pack, and Chi Gong to deal with the pain.

"Phisherman" wrote


All of the prescription pain medication I've taken (after joint
surgery, back pain, etc.) made me sicker than a dog, then vomit. I
prefer heating pads, ice pack, and Chi Gong to deal with the pain.

I have no problem with anyone handling themselves any way they wish. I only
object of people who feel it necessary to criticize another's method of
coping.

Steve

SteveB wrote:
"Phisherman" wrote


All of the prescription pain medication I've taken (after joint
surgery, back pain, etc.) made me sicker than a dog, then vomit. I
prefer heating pads, ice pack, and Chi Gong to deal with the pain.

I have no problem with anyone handling themselves any way they wish. I
only object of people who feel it necessary to criticize another's
method of coping.


Exactly. As our instructor in the "Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs" class said
while holding up an Opium poppy: "It's not all bad. If you have severe
burns, terminal cancer, or a broken back, you'll thank God He put this
little machine on the earth. Morphine is the standard by which all
analgesics are measured."

In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

SteveB wrote:
"Phisherman" wrote


All of the prescription pain medication I've taken (after joint
surgery, back pain, etc.) made me sicker than a dog, then vomit. I
prefer heating pads, ice pack, and Chi Gong to deal with the pain.

I have no problem with anyone handling themselves any way they wish. I
only object of people who feel it necessary to criticize another's
method of coping.


Exactly. As our instructor in the "Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs" class said
while holding up an Opium poppy: "It's not all bad. If you have severe
burns, terminal cancer, or a broken back, you'll thank God He put this
little machine on the earth. Morphine is the standard by which all
analgesics are measured."

The patch that my terminally ill friend is using is more powerful even
than morphine. But for those who hope to recover from their ailments,
even things as apparently as innocuous as ibuprofen can be pretty hard
on the body, permanently damaging the liver in a very short time, for
example.

I have another friend with severe neck and back pain who is on an ever
increasing daily dosage of oxycontin. Besides being highly addictive, a
lengthy course of narcotics *permanently* reduces your pain threshold.

It's nice to have the heavy artillery in the arsenal, but it marks
either a short road to recovery or a long road to hell, IMO.

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
The patch that my terminally ill friend is using is more powerful even
than morphine. But for those who hope to recover from their ailments,
even things as apparently as innocuous as ibuprofen can be pretty hard
on the body, permanently damaging the liver in a very short time, for
example.


You cast a wide net with your claim. I'm not saying it's not possible, but I
was taking 2400mg of Ibuprofen a day for 2-3 years along with aspirin with no
apparent GI bleeds and normal liver labs. Eventually I got my hip replaced and
stopped all the meds, without any apparent long term harm.


I have another friend with severe neck and back pain who is on an ever
increasing daily dosage of oxycontin. Besides being highly addictive, a
lengthy course of narcotics *permanently* reduces your pain threshold.


My experience once again is different: I was on Vicodin (hydrocodone, Lortabs)
several times a day for several months when I first became a multitrauma back in
the late 80s. As things healed, I stopped taking them and had no trouble
quitting. They still work for me today when I take them for more recent
injuries/complaints.

As for my pain threshold, it was high before; it remains high today. When I
looked at the inside of my forearm in cross section... just hanging by some skin
and a bit of muscle, I was able to carry on a normal conversation. I was not in
agony like you'd think. It just ached. Three or four years ago when I had my
hip replaced I didn't ask for anything for pain until 48 hours after the
surgery. Frankly, it hurt worse before the surgery.


It's nice to have the heavy artillery in the arsenal, but it marks
either a short road to recovery or a long road to hell, IMO.


It is possible to take the long road; maybe I was just lucky. I think a big
difference is that I didn't ever take painkillers recreationally. I get people
like that in my practice and you could hook them up to a 55 gallon drum of
morphine without getting rid of their pain. Too bad... they've had their fun.
I prefer to have the use of the drugs when they're needed. If I want to alter
my view of the world, I drink single malt Scotch.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in message
...


"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
The patch that my terminally ill friend is using is more powerful even
than morphine. But for those who hope to recover from their ailments,
even things as apparently as innocuous as ibuprofen can be pretty hard
on the body, permanently damaging the liver in a very short time, for
example.


You cast a wide net with your claim. I'm not saying it's not possible,
but I was taking 2400mg of Ibuprofen a day for 2-3 years along with
aspirin with no apparent GI bleeds and normal liver labs. Eventually I
got my hip replaced and stopped all the meds, without any apparent long
term harm.


I have another friend with severe neck and back pain who is on an ever
increasing daily dosage of oxycontin. Besides being highly addictive, a
lengthy course of narcotics *permanently* reduces your pain threshold.


My experience once again is different: I was on Vicodin (hydrocodone,
Lortabs) several times a day for several months when I first became a
multitrauma back in the late 80s. As things healed, I stopped taking them
and had no trouble quitting. They still work for me today when I take
them for more recent injuries/complaints.

As for my pain threshold, it was high before; it remains high today. When
I looked at the inside of my forearm in cross section... just hanging by
some skin and a bit of muscle, I was able to carry on a normal
conversation. I was not in agony like you'd think. It just ached. Three
or four years ago when I had my hip replaced I didn't ask for anything for
pain until 48 hours after the surgery. Frankly, it hurt worse before the
surgery.


It's nice to have the heavy artillery in the arsenal, but it marks
either a short road to recovery or a long road to hell, IMO.


It is possible to take the long road; maybe I was just lucky. I think a
big difference is that I didn't ever take painkillers recreationally. I
get people like that in my practice and you could hook them up to a 55
gallon drum of morphine without getting rid of their pain. Too bad...
they've had their fun. I prefer to have the use of the drugs when they're
needed. If I want to alter my view of the world, I drink single malt
Scotch.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Ditto your experience right down to the single malt scotch. I was on
Tylenol three days after heart surgery. 24 hours after breaking my back.
Still, though, the nurses would come in, I'd request Tylenol or a Lortab,
and they'd look at the chart and say, "Oh, don't you want some morphine.
You can have morphine. I'll go get you some morphine. Let me go talk to
the doctor and make sure you can have tylenol." Right now, it's a
rollercoaster with my pain meds. I take them when I need them. I can't
imagine anyone taking them for fun. If I take two too close together, I
vomit.

Today is a bad day, and I have to drive to Vegas, and tomorrow sit on a jet
to Kauai. I'll make it. I'll be thinking of you all.

Yeah, right.

Steve

I've heard that from folks. Morphine is sedative, but not pain killer. For
sore backs, my doctors tell me ibuprophen is the drug of choice, it reduces
swelling.

Wish they made ibuprophen with codeine. Or, maybe they do.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote in message
...


Ditto your experience right down to the single malt scotch. I was on
Tylenol three days after heart surgery. 24 hours after breaking my back.
Still, though, the nurses would come in, I'd request Tylenol or a Lortab,
and they'd look at the chart and say, "Oh, don't you want some morphine.
You can have morphine. I'll go get you some morphine. Let me go talk to
the doctor and make sure you can have tylenol." Right now, it's a
rollercoaster with my pain meds. I take them when I need them. I can't
imagine anyone taking them for fun. If I take two too close together, I
vomit.

Today is a bad day, and I have to drive to Vegas, and tomorrow sit on a jet
to Kauai. I'll make it. I'll be thinking of you all.

Yeah, right.

Steve

Stormin Mormon wrote:

I've heard that from folks. Morphine is sedative, but not pain killer. For
sore backs, my doctors tell me ibuprophen is the drug of choice, it reduces
swelling.

Wish they made ibuprophen with codeine. Or, maybe they do.



Many doctors I've known prescribe Tylenol for back pain because the feel
it provides some
muscle relaxing (off label) effect. Mild anti-inflam. Morphine is an
analgesic, with strong smoothe
muscle (gut) relaxant effect. Depresses respiration to some extent.
"Sore back" can include
muscle strain, bone problems and nerve impingement. No remedy is good
for all. Ibu. is strong anti-inflam., can be
very irritating to GI tract, as is aspirin.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Wish they made ibuprophen with codeine. Or, maybe they do.


Vicoprofen (hydrocodone like Vicodin or Lortabs with Ibuprofen instead of
Tylenol)
Combunox (oxycodone like Percocet or Tylox with Ibuprofen instead of Tylenol)

I don't know of any combinations with codeine itself, just the two synthetics.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Sunday after I strained my back, I could not stand up or sit down without
pain in the lower back. I was basically useless, walking was a real
strain.

When I used to do that, the doc had said simply take a scrip (now sold OTC
as Aleve) and lay about for 2 weeks..No chiro.
I took a week off work but the healing process wasn't coming along well. A
co-worker finally talked me into seeing his Chiro..
The chiro did his thing-said that although the pain was in the lower back,
the vertebra out of place was up higher, just neath the shoulderbaldes.

WHAM !! He did that twice and said to come back for another treatment in
2 days. I got up the next day and the pain was 95% gone.
Day after that, it was fine..no pain-No 2nd visit.

I reinjured the same spot about every 5 years or so. Chiro fixed it every
time..Lucky for me.

Wish they made ibuprophen with codeine. Or, maybe they do.

They do..its a scrip in the US and the light duty version is OTC in Canada

Rudy wrote:

Sunday after I strained my back, I could not stand up or sit down without
pain in the lower back. I was basically useless, walking was a real
strain.



When I used to do that, the doc had said simply take a scrip (now sold OTC
as Aleve) and lay about for 2 weeks..No chiro.
I took a week off work but the healing process wasn't coming along well. A
co-worker finally talked me into seeing his Chiro..
The chiro did his thing-said that although the pain was in the lower back,
the vertebra out of place was up higher, just neath the shoulderbaldes.

WHAM !! He did that twice and said to come back for another treatment in
2 days. I got up the next day and the pain was 95% gone.
Day after that, it was fine..no pain-No 2nd visit.

I reinjured the same spot about every 5 years or so. Chiro fixed it every
time..Lucky for me.




Folks with bad feet can also have back pain from abnormal gait. Whodathunk!

"Norminn" wrote in message

Folks with bad feet can also have back pain from abnormal gait.
Whodathunk!

Don't even need bad feet. Worn shoes can do it, especially if the corner of
the heel is worn.