I have just fought my last fight with diy garage door openers! The motor
holds up, but the door refuses to open OR close when cold weather comes in.
I have had the door checked several times and it is fine. I am now looking
at the Allstar MVP opener or the Chamberlain LiftMaster opener, either to be
installed and maintained by a garage door company. If there are any
problems, let THEM take care of it. The Allstar is all metal gears, but I
can not find any info about the Chamberlain. The Allstar is a full roller
chain, no cable. The Chamberlain is the belt drive. The Allstar 20 year
warranty covers the entire drive train and only 2 years on the electronics.
The Chamberlain's lifetime waranty covers only the motor and belt, and 5
years on everything else. The Allstar supposedly has a "shock-absorbing
door arm" to "soak up the sudden stops and starts of typical use, protecing
the door and opener," however I see nothing in the manual about this arm.
Anybody have any personal experience with either of these units? Thanks.

"Mike Dobony" wrote in message
...
I have just fought my last fight with diy garage door openers! The motor
holds up, but the door refuses to open OR close when cold weather comes
in.
I have had the door checked several times and it is fine. I am now
looking
at the Allstar MVP opener or the Chamberlain LiftMaster opener, either to
be
installed and maintained by a garage door company. If there are any
problems, let THEM take care of it. The Allstar is all metal gears, but I
can not find any info about the Chamberlain. The Allstar is a full roller
chain, no cable. The Chamberlain is the belt drive. The Allstar 20 year
warranty covers the entire drive train and only 2 years on the
electronics.
The Chamberlain's lifetime waranty covers only the motor and belt, and 5
years on everything else. The Allstar supposedly has a "shock-absorbing
door arm" to "soak up the sudden stops and starts of typical use,
protecing
the door and opener," however I see nothing in the manual about this arm.
Anybody have any personal experience with either of these units? Thanks.



Chamberlain is probably the largest residential garage door opener company
in the USA. Sears openers are from Chamberlain.

http://www.chamberlain.com/corp/new/

Never heard of Allstar, but I would not be surprised if it is not
manufactured by Chamberlain! Well, maybe not!

http://www.allstarcorp.com/
Greg

"Mike Dobony" wrote in message
...
I have just fought my last fight with diy garage door openers! The motor
holds up, but the door refuses to open OR close when cold weather comes
in.
I have had the door checked several times and it is fine. I am now
looking
at the Allstar MVP opener or the Chamberlain LiftMaster opener, either to
be
installed and maintained by a garage door company. If there are any
problems, let THEM take care of it. The Allstar is all metal gears, but I
can not find any info about the Chamberlain. The Allstar is a full roller
chain, no cable. The Chamberlain is the belt drive. The Allstar 20 year
warranty covers the entire drive train and only 2 years on the
electronics.
The Chamberlain's lifetime waranty covers only the motor and belt, and 5
years on everything else. The Allstar supposedly has a "shock-absorbing
door arm" to "soak up the sudden stops and starts of typical use,
protecing
the door and opener," however I see nothing in the manual about this arm.
Anybody have any personal experience with either of these units? Thanks.


Have you looked into the IDrive units? My next garage will have one of
them.

The belt driven ones are definitely quieter. Plan on a surge arrestor for
the electronics, I lost the last brain on one cause of a spike. The
instructions even say to install an arrestor for the opener.

"SQLit" wrote in message
...

"Mike Dobony" wrote in message
...
I have just fought my last fight with diy garage door openers! The
motor
holds up, but the door refuses to open OR close when cold weather comes
in.
I have had the door checked several times and it is fine. I am now
looking
at the Allstar MVP opener or the Chamberlain LiftMaster opener, either
to
be
installed and maintained by a garage door company. If there are any
problems, let THEM take care of it. The Allstar is all metal gears, but
I
can not find any info about the Chamberlain. The Allstar is a full
roller
chain, no cable. The Chamberlain is the belt drive. The Allstar 20
year
warranty covers the entire drive train and only 2 years on the
electronics.
The Chamberlain's lifetime waranty covers only the motor and belt, and 5
years on everything else. The Allstar supposedly has a "shock-absorbing
door arm" to "soak up the sudden stops and starts of typical use,
protecing
the door and opener," however I see nothing in the manual about this
arm.
Anybody have any personal experience with either of these units?
Thanks.


Have you looked into the IDrive units? My next garage will have one of
them.


That is what DIED in less than a year. A local company refuses to install
them due to the persistant failure of the potmetal gears on the shaft. They
explode when cold and under a heavy load. Great idea, but lousy quality
materials and weak motor.

The belt driven ones are definitely quieter. Plan on a surge arrestor for
the electronics, I lost the last brain on one cause of a spike. The
instructions even say to install an arrestor for the opener.


Yup, didn't think of that. I already have a whole house protector on hte
box, but have extra on the computers and tv. Also the belt drive is a belt
from the motor to the gear box to absorb shock, not driving the trolly.

Mike Dobony wrote:
I have just fought my last fight with diy garage door openers! The
motor holds up, but the door refuses to open OR close when cold
weather comes in. I have had the door checked several times and it
is fine. I am now looking at the Allstar MVP opener or the
Chamberlain LiftMaster opener, either to be installed and maintained
by a garage door company. If there are any problems, let THEM take
care of it. The Allstar is all metal gears, but I can not find any
info about the Chamberlain. The Allstar is a full roller chain, no
cable. The Chamberlain is the belt drive. The Allstar 20 year
warranty covers the entire drive train and only 2 years on the
electronics. The Chamberlain's lifetime waranty covers only the motor
and belt, and 5 years on everything else. The Allstar supposedly has
a "shock-absorbing door arm" to "soak up the sudden stops and starts
of typical use, protecing the door and opener," however I see nothing
in the manual about this arm. Anybody have any personal experience
with either of these units? Thanks.

Do you mean that after detaching the opener from the door, it opens and
closes properly and will remain half way fully open and fully closed without
assistance and moves without any unusual force?

What have you checked on the opener. It would seem the problem is not
finding the problem, not the opener.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
Mike Dobony wrote:
I have just fought my last fight with diy garage door openers! The
motor holds up, but the door refuses to open OR close when cold
weather comes in. I have had the door checked several times and it
is fine. I am now looking at the Allstar MVP opener or the
Chamberlain LiftMaster opener, either to be installed and maintained
by a garage door company. If there are any problems, let THEM take
care of it. The Allstar is all metal gears, but I can not find any
info about the Chamberlain. The Allstar is a full roller chain, no
cable. The Chamberlain is the belt drive. The Allstar 20 year
warranty covers the entire drive train and only 2 years on the
electronics. The Chamberlain's lifetime waranty covers only the motor
and belt, and 5 years on everything else. The Allstar supposedly has
a "shock-absorbing door arm" to "soak up the sudden stops and starts
of typical use, protecing the door and opener," however I see nothing
in the manual about this arm. Anybody have any personal experience
with either of these units? Thanks.

Do you mean that after detaching the opener from the door, it opens
and
closes properly and will remain half way fully open and fully closed
without
assistance and moves without any unusual force?


Yes, professionally checked.

What have you checked on the opener. It would seem the problem is not
finding the problem, not the opener.

openerS!!! I have had several openers with the same problem. EVERY one had
the same problem.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Mike Dobony wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
Mike Dobony wrote:
I have just fought my last fight with diy garage door openers! The
motor holds up, but the door refuses to open OR close when cold
weather comes in. I have had the door checked several times and it
is fine. I am now looking at the Allstar MVP opener or the
Chamberlain LiftMaster opener, either to be installed and
maintained by a garage door company. If there are any problems,
let THEM take care of it. The Allstar is all metal gears, but I
can not find any info about the Chamberlain. The Allstar is a
full roller chain, no cable. The Chamberlain is the belt drive.
The Allstar 20 year warranty covers the entire drive train and
only 2 years on the electronics. The Chamberlain's lifetime
waranty covers only the motor and belt, and 5 years on everything
else. The Allstar supposedly has a "shock-absorbing door arm" to
"soak up the sudden stops and starts of typical use, protecing the
door and opener," however I see nothing in the manual about this
arm. Anybody have any personal experience with either of these
units? Thanks.

Do you mean that after detaching the opener from the door, it
opens and closes properly and will remain half way fully open and
fully closed without assistance and moves without any unusual force?


Yes, professionally checked.

What have you checked on the opener. It would seem the problem
is not finding the problem, not the opener.

openerS!!! I have had several openers with the same problem. EVERY
one had the same problem.

Maybe someone needs to take another look at the door or the mounting of
the openers. There just should not be that many failures. If the door is
properly installed and a properly sized opener or any make properly
installed should be able to function.



--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

" Maybe someone needs to take another look at the door or the
mounting of
the openers. There just should not be that many failures. If the door
is
properly installed and a properly sized opener or any make properly
installed should be able to function. "

I agree. And has the door been checked out during cold weather, which
is apparently the problem? A garage door shouldn't be very different
in opening force in cold weather. It's possible something is shrinking
and binding. What kind of lubricant is on it?

With the opener disconnected, the door should move easily up and down
with one hand. At about the mid-point of travel, it should be just
about balanced so that it will stay there if you let it go.

wrote in message
oups.com...
" Maybe someone needs to take another look at the door or the
mounting of
the openers. There just should not be that many failures. If the door
is
properly installed and a properly sized opener or any make properly
installed should be able to function. "

I agree. And has the door been checked out during cold weather, which
is apparently the problem? A garage door shouldn't be very different
in opening force in cold weather. It's possible something is shrinking
and binding. What kind of lubricant is on it?

With the opener disconnected, the door should move easily up and down
with one hand. At about the mid-point of travel, it should be just
about balanced so that it will stay there if you let it go.


It has been professionally checked in cold weather operates fine by hand,
but not with the various openers. The door was also professionally
installed. I have tried a tremendous variety of lubridants, none of which
makes any lasting change (longer than 1 day). The rollers are all
free-wheeling. None of them is ever sticking. I have to check to see if
thye are the cheap plastic bushing rollers or good all metal ones. If
plastic, I will change them out.

My parents have an IDrive for several years now. It is made from Wayne
Dalton and works well. Did you contact Wayne Dalton? I've found that they
stand up behind their stuff.


"Mike Dobony" wrote in message
...

"SQLit" wrote in message
...

"Mike Dobony" wrote in message
...
I have just fought my last fight with diy garage door openers! The
motor
holds up, but the door refuses to open OR close when cold weather comes
in.
I have had the door checked several times and it is fine. I am now
looking
at the Allstar MVP opener or the Chamberlain LiftMaster opener, either
to
be
installed and maintained by a garage door company. If there are any
problems, let THEM take care of it. The Allstar is all metal gears,
but
I
can not find any info about the Chamberlain. The Allstar is a full
roller
chain, no cable. The Chamberlain is the belt drive. The Allstar 20
year
warranty covers the entire drive train and only 2 years on the
electronics.
The Chamberlain's lifetime waranty covers only the motor and belt, and
5
years on everything else. The Allstar supposedly has a
"shock-absorbing
door arm" to "soak up the sudden stops and starts of typical use,
protecing
the door and opener," however I see nothing in the manual about this
arm.
Anybody have any personal experience with either of these units?
Thanks.


Have you looked into the IDrive units? My next garage will have one of
them.


That is what DIED in less than a year. A local company refuses to
install
them due to the persistant failure of the potmetal gears on the shaft.
They
explode when cold and under a heavy load. Great idea, but lousy quality
materials and weak motor.

The belt driven ones are definitely quieter. Plan on a surge arrestor
for
the electronics, I lost the last brain on one cause of a spike. The
instructions even say to install an arrestor for the opener.


Yup, didn't think of that. I already have a whole house protector on hte
box, but have extra on the computers and tv. Also the belt drive is a
belt
from the motor to the gear box to absorb shock, not driving the trolly.

Something is wrong with the door or installation. You should not be having
these problems. I have 3 doors and openers for 8 years on my current house.
So far only one needed a gear and a spring replaced.... It is the one used
the most by far. All is Wayne Dalton equipment installed by Wayne Dalton
and fixed by them. I never oil them until there is a problem.


"Mike Dobony" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
" Maybe someone needs to take another look at the door or the
mounting of
the openers. There just should not be that many failures. If the door
is
properly installed and a properly sized opener or any make properly
installed should be able to function. "

I agree. And has the door been checked out during cold weather, which
is apparently the problem? A garage door shouldn't be very different
in opening force in cold weather. It's possible something is shrinking
and binding. What kind of lubricant is on it?

With the opener disconnected, the door should move easily up and down
with one hand. At about the mid-point of travel, it should be just
about balanced so that it will stay there if you let it go.


It has been professionally checked in cold weather operates fine by hand,
but not with the various openers. The door was also professionally
installed. I have tried a tremendous variety of lubridants, none of which
makes any lasting change (longer than 1 day). The rollers are all
free-wheeling. None of them is ever sticking. I have to check to see if
thye are the cheap plastic bushing rollers or good all metal ones. If
plastic, I will change them out.

have never had a problem with any garage door opener. My other house
had one in use for 10 yrs or more from a local garage door company. The
one in This house has been in use almost 8 yrs from Sears.

Mike Dobony wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
" Maybe someone needs to take another look at the door or the
mounting of
the openers. There just should not be that many failures. If the
door is
properly installed and a properly sized opener or any make properly
installed should be able to function. "

I agree. And has the door been checked out during cold weather,
which is apparently the problem? A garage door shouldn't be very
different in opening force in cold weather. It's possible something
is shrinking and binding. What kind of lubricant is on it?

With the opener disconnected, the door should move easily up and down
with one hand. At about the mid-point of travel, it should be just
about balanced so that it will stay there if you let it go.


It has been professionally checked in cold weather operates fine by
hand, but not with the various openers. The door was also
professionally installed. I have tried a tremendous variety of
lubridants, none of which makes any lasting change (longer than 1
day). The rollers are all free-wheeling. None of them is ever
sticking. I have to check to see if thye are the cheap plastic
bushing rollers or good all metal ones. If plastic, I will change
them out.

Checked or not there is some thing wrong with the door, it's
installation or the installation of the openers. Of course it is possible
all those openers were defective, but it is also possible they were all hit
by lightning. You just have not yet found the problem.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
m...
Mike Dobony wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
" Maybe someone needs to take another look at the door or the
mounting of
the openers. There just should not be that many failures. If the
door is
properly installed and a properly sized opener or any make properly
installed should be able to function. "

I agree. And has the door been checked out during cold weather,
which is apparently the problem? A garage door shouldn't be very
different in opening force in cold weather. It's possible something
is shrinking and binding. What kind of lubricant is on it?

With the opener disconnected, the door should move easily up and down
with one hand. At about the mid-point of travel, it should be just
about balanced so that it will stay there if you let it go.


It has been professionally checked in cold weather operates fine by
hand, but not with the various openers. The door was also
professionally installed. I have tried a tremendous variety of
lubridants, none of which makes any lasting change (longer than 1
day). The rollers are all free-wheeling. None of them is ever
sticking. I have to check to see if thye are the cheap plastic
bushing rollers or good all metal ones. If plastic, I will change
them out.

Checked or not there is some thing wrong with the door, it's
installation or the installation of the openers. Of course it is possible
all those openers were defective, but it is also possible they were all
hit
by lightning.

How would a lightning strike cause it to open part way or close part way,
and then reverse? How would a lightning strike only cause the problem in
cold weather? ALL the openers do the same thing, sense an overload and
reverses. Raise the opening and closing force and it works for a short
time. Raise the force to max and it still does this! I am ready for a new
opener with service support to come and deal with the situation if it arises
again. I'll let THEM deal with it. Hence the original question regarding
Chamberlain LiftMaster versus the Allstar. Any comments on the question
instead your lack of suggestions?

You just have not yet found the problem.


And neither have the pros! Therefore I am ready to get something better
than the DIY openers found in the stores and have someone else do the
install AND the service.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Mike Dobony wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
m...
Mike Dobony wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
" Maybe someone needs to take another look at the door or the
mounting of
the openers. There just should not be that many failures. If the
door is
properly installed and a properly sized opener or any make
properly installed should be able to function. "

I agree. And has the door been checked out during cold weather,
which is apparently the problem? A garage door shouldn't be very
different in opening force in cold weather. It's possible
something is shrinking and binding. What kind of lubricant is on
it?

With the opener disconnected, the door should move easily up and
down with one hand. At about the mid-point of travel, it should
be just about balanced so that it will stay there if you let it
go.


It has been professionally checked in cold weather operates fine by
hand, but not with the various openers. The door was also
professionally installed. I have tried a tremendous variety of
lubridants, none of which makes any lasting change (longer than 1
day). The rollers are all free-wheeling. None of them is ever
sticking. I have to check to see if thye are the cheap plastic
bushing rollers or good all metal ones. If plastic, I will change
them out.

Checked or not there is some thing wrong with the door, it's
installation or the installation of the openers. Of course it is
possible all those openers were defective, but it is also possible
they were all hit by lightning.

How would a lightning strike cause it to open part way or close part
way, and then reverse? How would a lightning strike only cause the
problem in cold weather? ALL the openers do the same thing, sense an
overload and reverses. Raise the opening and closing force and it
works for a short time. Raise the force to max and it still does
this! I am ready for a new opener with service support to come and
deal with the situation if it arises again. I'll let THEM deal with
it. Hence the original question regarding Chamberlain LiftMaster
versus the Allstar. Any comments on the question instead your lack
of suggestions?

I was using the lightning strike as an example of how un-likely it is
that the units were all bad. Not that they were all actually hit by
lightning.


You just have not yet found the problem.


And neither have the pros! Therefore I am ready to get something
better than the DIY openers found in the stores and have someone else
do the install AND the service.

I suggest that replacing openers is not going to help. There is no
reason why the ones you have tried be fore would all be bad. It is almost
certain that there is something there that you have not replaced that is
causing the problem. You would only be putting in a more expensive non-fix.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 09:09:14 -0800, (Muvin Gruvin)
wrote:

have never had a problem with any garage door opener. My other house
had one in use for 10 yrs or more from a local garage door company. The
one in This house has been in use almost 8 yrs from Sears.

I'm still using a Genie opener I installed in the early 70's and it's
on a door that's a bear to open and close with the opener - one piece
door with out enough overhead to really get the opener geometry right.
The screw bar bends slightly every time it starts the close cycle but
it keeps on working year after year. I've had nothing but good luck
with the Genie Brand openers.

"Mike Dobony" wrote in message
...

How would a lightning strike cause it to open part way or close part way,
and then reverse? How would a lightning strike only cause the problem in
cold weather? ALL the openers do the same thing, sense an overload and
reverses. Raise the opening and closing force and it works for a short
time. Raise the force to max and it still does this! I am ready for a
new
opener with service support to come and deal with the situation if it
arises
again. I'll let THEM deal with it. Hence the original question regarding
Chamberlain LiftMaster versus the Allstar. Any comments on the question
instead your lack of suggestions?


I had a problem with a Chamberlain a few years ago. I am trying to remember
just what the symptoms were. I think it would only close part way. Maybe
only move a few inches and then reverse. I came to the conclusion that it
was quite likely the RPM sensor.

Something like this unit:

http://www.aaaremotes.com/lifgaroprpms.html

For the price I decided to give it a try. Put in a new one and it has been
running fine ever since. I remember that the new one I ordered looked like
a more sturdy design.

"Ashton Crusher" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 09:09:14 -0800, (Muvin Gruvin)
wrote:

have never had a problem with any garage door opener. My other house
had one in use for 10 yrs or more from a local garage door company. The
one in This house has been in use almost 8 yrs from Sears.

I'm still using a Genie opener I installed in the early 70's and it's
on a door that's a bear to open and close with the opener - one piece
door with out enough overhead to really get the opener geometry right.
The screw bar bends slightly every time it starts the close cycle but
it keeps on working year after year. I've had nothing but good luck
with the Genie Brand openers.

THey made much better openers back then, with a FULL chain, not the stupid
chain and light cable combo in today's openers, even the 3/4hp openers. I
had a Genie like yours at another house that was manufactured in the early
80's and it worked fine, just a plain opener without all the fancy junk on
today's openers that are causing the problem. I should have kept it!

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
Mike Dobony wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
m...
Mike Dobony wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
" Maybe someone needs to take another look at the door or the
mounting of
the openers. There just should not be that many failures. If the
door is
properly installed and a properly sized opener or any make
properly installed should be able to function. "

I agree. And has the door been checked out during cold weather,
which is apparently the problem? A garage door shouldn't be very
different in opening force in cold weather. It's possible
something is shrinking and binding. What kind of lubricant is on
it?

With the opener disconnected, the door should move easily up and
down with one hand. At about the mid-point of travel, it should
be just about balanced so that it will stay there if you let it
go.


It has been professionally checked in cold weather operates fine by
hand, but not with the various openers. The door was also
professionally installed. I have tried a tremendous variety of
lubridants, none of which makes any lasting change (longer than 1
day). The rollers are all free-wheeling. None of them is ever
sticking. I have to check to see if thye are the cheap plastic
bushing rollers or good all metal ones. If plastic, I will change
them out.

Checked or not there is some thing wrong with the door, it's
installation or the installation of the openers. Of course it is
possible all those openers were defective, but it is also possible
they were all hit by lightning.

How would a lightning strike cause it to open part way or close part
way, and then reverse? How would a lightning strike only cause the
problem in cold weather? ALL the openers do the same thing, sense an
overload and reverses. Raise the opening and closing force and it
works for a short time. Raise the force to max and it still does
this! I am ready for a new opener with service support to come and
deal with the situation if it arises again. I'll let THEM deal with
it. Hence the original question regarding Chamberlain LiftMaster
versus the Allstar. Any comments on the question instead your lack
of suggestions?

I was using the lightning strike as an example of how un-likely it is
that the units were all bad. Not that they were all actually hit by
lightning.


You just have not yet found the problem.


And neither have the pros! Therefore I am ready to get something
better than the DIY openers found in the stores and have someone else
do the install AND the service.

I suggest that replacing openers is not going to help. There is no
reason why the ones you have tried be fore would all be bad. It is almost
certain that there is something there that you have not replaced that is
causing the problem. You would only be putting in a more expensive
non-fix.


Okay, then give me some ideas instead of saying to fix it and say noting to
look at! I have had several professional door people look at it and THEY
find nothing wrong with the setup except to say it is a very heavy door.
The only other thing to replace is the whole door!


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

"Mike Dobony" wrote in message
...

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
Mike Dobony wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
m...
Mike Dobony wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
" Maybe someone needs to take another look at the door or the
mounting of
the openers. There just should not be that many failures. If the
door is
properly installed and a properly sized opener or any make
properly installed should be able to function. "

I agree. And has the door been checked out during cold weather,
which is apparently the problem? A garage door shouldn't be very
different in opening force in cold weather. It's possible
something is shrinking and binding. What kind of lubricant is on
it?

With the opener disconnected, the door should move easily up and
down with one hand. At about the mid-point of travel, it should
be just about balanced so that it will stay there if you let it
go.


It has been professionally checked in cold weather operates fine by
hand, but not with the various openers. The door was also
professionally installed. I have tried a tremendous variety of
lubridants, none of which makes any lasting change (longer than 1
day). The rollers are all free-wheeling. None of them is ever
sticking. I have to check to see if thye are the cheap plastic
bushing rollers or good all metal ones. If plastic, I will change
them out.

Checked or not there is some thing wrong with the door, it's
installation or the installation of the openers. Of course it is
possible all those openers were defective, but it is also possible
they were all hit by lightning.

How would a lightning strike cause it to open part way or close part
way, and then reverse? How would a lightning strike only cause the
problem in cold weather? ALL the openers do the same thing, sense an
overload and reverses. Raise the opening and closing force and it
works for a short time. Raise the force to max and it still does
this! I am ready for a new opener with service support to come and
deal with the situation if it arises again. I'll let THEM deal with
it. Hence the original question regarding Chamberlain LiftMaster
versus the Allstar. Any comments on the question instead your lack
of suggestions?

I was using the lightning strike as an example of how un-likely it
is
that the units were all bad. Not that they were all actually hit by
lightning.


You just have not yet found the problem.


And neither have the pros! Therefore I am ready to get something
better than the DIY openers found in the stores and have someone else
do the install AND the service.

I suggest that replacing openers is not going to help. There is no
reason why the ones you have tried be fore would all be bad. It is
almost
certain that there is something there that you have not replaced that is
causing the problem. You would only be putting in a more expensive
non-fix.


Okay, then give me some ideas instead of saying to fix it and say noting
to
look at! I have had several professional door people look at it and THEY
find nothing wrong with the setup except to say it is a very heavy door.
The only other thing to replace is the whole door!


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit




Since you said it had rollers I will assume it is a roll down sectional
door. I just remembered a big slab door in California where I was helping a
friend install an opener. The top of the door did not follow a continuous
line in the up direction.

That is about half way up it actually went into reverse for a short
distance. The door would get almost open and then the bottom would move out
away from the garage while the door was moving to a horizontal position.
One more or less level it would then move into the garage.

We had to play with the door mechanism for quite a while before we got it
to where an opener could handle it.

And you were talking about old time openers. My first one was a Heathkit.
The "safety mechanism" was a spring loaded trolley. It the door became
stalled it had to push hard enough to pull the door bracket out of the
trolley. With a big heavy slab that spring had to be so tight that most
anything that got under the door would be crushed before it would release.

The reverse mechanism consisted of two nuts riding on a threaded shaft.
The nuts were kept from turning by a metal plate. Between the two nuts was
toggle switch. When the door reached one extreme the nut was supposed to
flip the toggle switch to reverse the motor.

Mike Dobony wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
Mike Dobony wrote:
....

How would a lightning strike cause it to open part way or close
part way, and then reverse? How would a lightning strike only
cause the problem in cold weather? ALL the openers do the same
thing, sense an overload and reverses. Raise the opening and
closing force and it works for a short time. Raise the force to
max and it still does this! I am ready for a new opener with
service support to come and deal with the situation if it arises
again. I'll let THEM deal with it. Hence the original question
regarding Chamberlain LiftMaster versus the Allstar. Any comments
on the question instead your lack of suggestions?

I was using the lightning strike as an example of how un-likely
it is that the units were all bad. Not that they were all actually
hit by lightning.


You just have not yet found the problem.


And neither have the pros! Therefore I am ready to get something
better than the DIY openers found in the stores and have someone
else do the install AND the service.

I suggest that replacing openers is not going to help. There is
no reason why the ones you have tried be fore would all be bad. It
is almost certain that there is something there that you have not
replaced that is causing the problem. You would only be putting in
a more expensive non-fix.


Okay, then give me some ideas instead of saying to fix it and say
noting to look at! I have had several professional door people look
at it and THEY find nothing wrong with the setup except to say it is
a very heavy door. The only other thing to replace is the whole door!


It means going by the numbers again. Something is there. I can't see
it but there is something. I can say that it appears the professional(s)
you have had out, have missed it, maybe it is time to try someone else.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
Mike Dobony wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
Mike Dobony wrote:
...

How would a lightning strike cause it to open part way or close
part way, and then reverse? How would a lightning strike only
cause the problem in cold weather? ALL the openers do the same
thing, sense an overload and reverses. Raise the opening and
closing force and it works for a short time. Raise the force to
max and it still does this! I am ready for a new opener with
service support to come and deal with the situation if it arises
again. I'll let THEM deal with it. Hence the original question
regarding Chamberlain LiftMaster versus the Allstar. Any comments
on the question instead your lack of suggestions?

I was using the lightning strike as an example of how un-likely
it is that the units were all bad. Not that they were all actually
hit by lightning.


You just have not yet found the problem.


And neither have the pros! Therefore I am ready to get something
better than the DIY openers found in the stores and have someone
else do the install AND the service.

I suggest that replacing openers is not going to help. There is
no reason why the ones you have tried be fore would all be bad. It
is almost certain that there is something there that you have not
replaced that is causing the problem. You would only be putting in
a more expensive non-fix.


Okay, then give me some ideas instead of saying to fix it and say
noting to look at! I have had several professional door people look
at it and THEY find nothing wrong with the setup except to say it is
a very heavy door. The only other thing to replace is the whole door!


It means going by the numbers again. Something is there. I can't see
it but there is something. I can say that it appears the professional(s)
you have had out, have missed it, maybe it is time to try someone else.


And how many more others do you suggest I contact before recognizing that a
store-bought unit just is not built well enough for my door? I want
something that works BEFORE springtime.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Mike Dobony wrote:
....

And how many more others do you suggest I contact before recognizing
that a store-bought unit just is not built well enough for my door?
I want something that works BEFORE springtime.


You certainly free to do as you like and you should follow your own
decision not mine. I am only saying that to me, the more logical plan would
be to find out what the problem is before trying to solve it by throwing new
expensive openers at it when it would appear it is not an opener problem.

Even the cheap openers are not known for the kind of problem you are
having when properly installed on a properly functioning door. I really
think you are missing something and I hope to save you some money. It might
even be something with the power supply, maybe as simple as a floating
neutral.

I do wish you the best of luck and I hope that if you replace the opener
again, that it works for you.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

And how many more others do you suggest I contact before recognizing that a
store-bought unit just is not built well enough for my door? I want
something that works BEFORE springtime.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit




I have an 18 foot wide, 8 foot high cedar insulated door. It weighs IIRC
800lbs. I have a screw type store bought opener. It has no problem.

It would have this mysterious symptom. close almost all the way down,
then stop reverse and open. Drove me nuts. turned out it was the stupid
rope getting in the way of the sensors. Happened again last week, after
not having it happen for more than a year. Rope wasn't in the way[tied a
knot in it] Looking looking, checking switches.......there was a tiny
leaf, suspended on a spider web on the door, dangling in front of the
sensor.

My neighbors door faces a bit more west than mine, and clearer in front
of it. wouldn't work in the afternoon. The sun glitched the sensors.



duct tape the sensors together and try the door.


Wasn't it sherlock holmes? When you eliminate the impossible, whatever
remains, no matter how improbable, must be the answer.

"yourname" wrote
It would have this mysterious symptom. close almost all the way down, then
stop reverse and open. Drove me nuts. turned out it was the stupid rope
getting in the way of the sensors. Happened again last week, after not
having it happen for more than a year. Rope wasn't in the way[tied a knot
in it] Looking looking, checking switches.......there was a tiny leaf,
suspended on a spider web on the door, dangling in front of the sensor.

Heh, reminds me of a little thing I encountered with my 16'x7' Wayne Dalton.
The door would open fine, but would not close with the vehicle remote or
wall switch, at exactly 7:15 in the morning.
Hmmm.....took me a little while to figure it out.
Turns out the rising sun in the east (my house faces north) would shine
right into the lens of the sensor.
A 2" piece of garden hose slipped over the sensor stopped that issue.
BTW: This would only happen at a certain time of the year when the sun was
at just the right angle.

"yourname" wrote in message
news:yaogf.4495$BU2.1276@trndny01...


And how many more others do you suggest I contact before recognizing
that a
store-bought unit just is not built well enough for my door? I want
something that works BEFORE springtime.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit




I have an 18 foot wide, 8 foot high cedar insulated door. It weighs IIRC
800lbs. I have a screw type store bought opener. It has no problem.

It would have this mysterious symptom. close almost all the way down,
then stop reverse and open. Drove me nuts. turned out it was the stupid
rope getting in the way of the sensors. Happened again last week, after
not having it happen for more than a year. Rope wasn't in the way[tied a
knot in it] Looking looking, checking switches.......there was a tiny
leaf, suspended on a spider web on the door, dangling in front of the
sensor.

My neighbors door faces a bit more west than mine, and clearer in front
of it. wouldn't work in the afternoon. The sun glitched the sensors.


Problem is all day and all night when it happens. Door is facing north.
Checked the sensors first and they are clear and the indicator light is on.
It only does this in cold weather. It does it no matter what the opener is.
When the opener is brand new it doesn't happen often. Next season it
happens to the point it is impossible for the opener to open or close the
door EVER. I end up having ot disconnect the opener and open and close by
hand. I am getting a NEW commercial grade opener from someone who will do
the servicing. I am tired of spending 15 winters with this problem and
having various garage door companies telling me the same exact thing, the
door is fine.



duct tape the sensors together and try the door.


Wasn't it sherlock holmes? When you eliminate the impossible, whatever
remains, no matter how improbable, must be the answer.

My small, light, metal door opens/closes fine by hand, but binds when
the opener closes it. The top panel of the door has just enough
deflection to cause the mechanism to bind.

Perhaps trying to manually open/close the door while only touching the
door where the opener touches the door will reveal some binding that
does not occur when force is put on the door in a different place.

In networking, this is the "be the packet" approach, so here I guess
its the "be the opener" approach.

Dave

"Mike Dobony" wrote in message
...

"yourname" wrote in message
news:yaogf.4495$BU2.1276@trndny01...


And how many more others do you suggest I contact before recognizing
that a
store-bought unit just is not built well enough for my door? I want
something that works BEFORE springtime.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit




I have an 18 foot wide, 8 foot high cedar insulated door. It weighs IIRC
800lbs. I have a screw type store bought opener. It has no problem.

It would have this mysterious symptom. close almost all the way down,
then stop reverse and open. Drove me nuts. turned out it was the stupid
rope getting in the way of the sensors. Happened again last week, after
not having it happen for more than a year. Rope wasn't in the way[tied a
knot in it] Looking looking, checking switches.......there was a tiny
leaf, suspended on a spider web on the door, dangling in front of the
sensor.

My neighbors door faces a bit more west than mine, and clearer in front
of it. wouldn't work in the afternoon. The sun glitched the sensors.


Problem is all day and all night when it happens. Door is facing north.
Checked the sensors first and they are clear and the indicator light is
on.
It only does this in cold weather. It does it no matter what the opener
is.
When the opener is brand new it doesn't happen often. Next season it
happens to the point it is impossible for the opener to open or close the
door EVER. I end up having ot disconnect the opener and open and close by
hand. I am getting a NEW commercial grade opener from someone who will do
the servicing. I am tired of spending 15 winters with this problem and
having various garage door companies telling me the same exact thing, the
door is fine.

Just curious as to exactly what happens. Does the door try to open? Does
it open part way and then reverse?

I too think those tape units are cheap. For a heavy door I would want a
screw drive. I presently use a Chamberlain chain drive but it is a very
light weight door.

I lean a bit towards Genie products over Chamberlain.

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
. ..
Mike Dobony wrote:
...

And how many more others do you suggest I contact before recognizing
that a store-bought unit just is not built well enough for my door?
I want something that works BEFORE springtime.


You certainly free to do as you like and you should follow your own
decision not mine. I am only saying that to me, the more logical plan
would
be to find out what the problem is before trying to solve it by throwing
new
expensive openers at it when it would appear it is not an opener problem.

Even the cheap openers are not known for the kind of problem you are
having when properly installed on a properly functioning door. I really
think you are missing something and I hope to save you some money. It
might
even be something with the power supply, maybe as simple as a floating
neutral.


Ok, what would cause a floating neitral only in cold weather? I have had
several professionals out to check the door and the onliy comment they ever
make is that it is a heavy door. The door operates smoothly and stays open
at the 4-5 foot mark, as directed by all the recommendations. Fresh
lubrication improves the situation, but only for a few days and only on a
few openings. I have tried several types of lubricants, motor oil, gear
lube, several spray lubes, etc. Each time I use brake cleaner to clean off
the old oil and dirt. The only other option I have is to have a new,
lighter door installed. The opener is much cheaper and the installer can
deal with any problems. I have already spend several hundred $$$$$ on
openers. The existing door already has the largest spring available for
residential doors. The

I do wish you the best of luck and I hope that if you replace the
opener
again, that it works for you.


If it doesn't it will be the installer's problem this time.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

I have been following this thread, wondering like everyone else on what
is really causing your problem. While I will agree w/ you that the
professional openers are built better/stronger as in more durable then
some DYI openers I would have to agree that a new opener is not going
to solve the problem.

Issues that I can see:

You've had a number of professionals out that can't figure out the
problem but you are going to have one of them put in a new opener so it
will now be their problem. If they can't figure out the problem now,
how are they going to figure it out after you have bought & paid for a
new opener? (I don't believe a new opener will solve your problem no
matter what one you buy as many others have stated.) Also most
installers only give a one year guarantee on labor so after one year it
will once again be your problem, will it not?

You said everyone comments on how heavy the door is, but then you say
it works smooth & stays open at 4-5 feet. To me this sounds like a
contradiction. If the door is balanced properly it should not be heavy
off of the floor & the door should pretty much stay at any point you
let go of the door (slight drifting is normal) including 2 feet off of
the floor. If it drops like a rock from 2 feet the door isn't balanced
properly. If the door isn't heavy off of the floor why does everyone
comment on how heavy the door is?

You stated that the existing door already has the largest spring
available for residential doors. Where did this statement come from
because it makes no sense at all to me? The size of the spring is
determined by the size of the drums, the weight of the door, the height
of the door, & how much room is available on the shaft. So whether the
door is a residential door or a commercial door makes no difference &
the goal is not to have the largest springs but to have ones that are
properly balanced for the weight.

I am totally guessing & going out on a limb, but I would guess that
your door feels like a ton of bricks as it comes off of the floor & it
is this excessive weight that has been causing your problems & will
continue to do so until the door is balanced properly.

Doordoc

Mike Dobony wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
. ..
Mike Dobony wrote:
...

And how many more others do you suggest I contact before
recognizing that a store-bought unit just is not built well enough
for my door? I want something that works BEFORE springtime.


You certainly free to do as you like and you should follow your
own decision not mine. I am only saying that to me, the more
logical plan would be to find out what the problem is before trying
to solve it by throwing new expensive openers at it when it would
appear it is not an opener problem.

Even the cheap openers are not known for the kind of problem you
are having when properly installed on a properly functioning door.
I really think you are missing something and I hope to save you some
money. It might even be something with the power supply, maybe as
simple as a floating neutral.


Ok, what would cause a floating neitral only in cold weather? I have
had several professionals out to check the door and the onliy comment
they ever make is that it is a heavy door. The door operates
smoothly and stays open at the 4-5 foot mark, as directed by all the
recommendations. Fresh lubrication improves the situation, but only
for a few days and only on a few openings. I have tried several
types of lubricants, motor oil, gear lube, several spray lubes, etc.
Each time I use brake cleaner to clean off the old oil and dirt. The
only other option I have is to have a new, lighter door installed.
The opener is much cheaper and the installer can deal with any
problems. I have already spend several hundred $$$$$ on openers.
The existing door already has the largest spring available for
residential doors. The

I wonder how balanced it is throughout the entire movement range? Hard
to tell from here. I might ask if you have only use the el-cheep-o ¼ HP
openers? You can get more powerful consumer grade openers. How much does
that door weigh? Why is it so heavy?

I suspect that the problem may be alignment of the opener and the door.
But it is difficult to tell from here.

.... I seem to remember something . You mentioned you had used an
IDrive unit. Have all the failed units been IDrive units? If so I would
suggest that it might be something with that specific model or design and
your heavy door. Do they specify a max door weight? Is your door under
that weight. Remember that in many areas wood doors are heavier in the
winter do to picking up moisture.



I do wish you the best of luck and I hope that if you replace
the opener again, that it works for you.


If it doesn't it will be the installer's problem this time.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
m...
Mike Dobony wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
. ..
Mike Dobony wrote:
...

And how many more others do you suggest I contact before
recognizing that a store-bought unit just is not built well enough
for my door? I want something that works BEFORE springtime.


You certainly free to do as you like and you should follow your
own decision not mine. I am only saying that to me, the more
logical plan would be to find out what the problem is before trying
to solve it by throwing new expensive openers at it when it would
appear it is not an opener problem.

Even the cheap openers are not known for the kind of problem you
are having when properly installed on a properly functioning door.
I really think you are missing something and I hope to save you some
money. It might even be something with the power supply, maybe as
simple as a floating neutral.


Ok, what would cause a floating neitral only in cold weather? I have
had several professionals out to check the door and the onliy comment
they ever make is that it is a heavy door. The door operates
smoothly and stays open at the 4-5 foot mark, as directed by all the
recommendations. Fresh lubrication improves the situation, but only
for a few days and only on a few openings. I have tried several
types of lubricants, motor oil, gear lube, several spray lubes, etc.
Each time I use brake cleaner to clean off the old oil and dirt. The
only other option I have is to have a new, lighter door installed.
The opener is much cheaper and the installer can deal with any
problems. I have already spend several hundred $$$$$ on openers.
The existing door already has the largest spring available for
residential doors. The

I wonder how balanced it is throughout the entire movement range?
Hard
to tell from here. I might ask if you have only use the el-cheep-o ¼ HP
openers?

All 1/2 hp units.

You can get more powerful consumer grade openers.

3/4 hp, but it still comes with a stupid chain/cable combo. I want a full
chain or the Chaimberlain lifetime belt.

How much does
that door weigh? Why is it so heavy?

Heavy duty aluminum skin inside and out and insulated. It is a standard
7x16 door from a garage door company, not el-cheapo from the home
improvement center.


I suspect that the problem may be alignment of the opener and the
door.
But it is difficult to tell from here.


When the pros came over they never said anything about the opener.

.... I seem to remember something . You mentioned you had used an
IDrive unit. Have all the failed units been IDrive units?

Chain/cable combo, screw drive, and then the Idrive. Forget what the 4th
was somewhere in the middle. I have been having problems for 15 years. The
Idrive is only a few years old.

If so I would
suggest that it might be something with that specific model or design and
your heavy door. Do they specify a max door weight? Is your door under
that weight. Remember that in many areas wood doors are heavier in the
winter do to picking up moisture.


My father had a full wood double door and had either a 1/4 or 1/3 hp opener
built around the 60's and it never failed other than needing a new
belt-drive (from motor to gear box) and a few new remotes. That was an
EXTREMELY heavy door. When I was 5 I could open it manually. The spring is
supposed to do all the work and negates the weight of the door. That is
what it is designed to do. A 1/4 hp opener SHOULD be able to open any
properly setup door.



I do wish you the best of luck and I hope that if you replace
the opener again, that it works for you.


If it doesn't it will be the installer's problem this time.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Mike Dobony wrote:
...

My father had a full wood double door and had either a 1/4 or 1/3 hp
opener built around the 60's and it never failed other than needing a
new belt-drive (from motor to gear box) and a few new remotes. That
was an EXTREMELY heavy door. When I was 5 I could open it manually.
The spring is supposed to do all the work and negates the weight of
the door. That is what it is designed to do. A 1/4 hp opener SHOULD
be able to open any properly setup door.


Maybe not. Remember inertia from your high-school physics class? The
tendency of a body to resist acceleration; the tendency of a body at rest to
remain at rest or of a body in motion to stay in motion in a straight line
unless acted on by an outside force.

Overall I still tend to believe that something has been missed. I have
had 4 consumer garage doors over the last 30 years (two at a time) and I
have yet to have any of them fail. BTW for the last 15 years they have been
on insulated aluminum doors.

Go ahead and put in a more expensive opener, but I suspect you will
either accidentally correct the problem, or you are going to find the same
thing happening.

Maybe we have forgotten on thing. Cycling! How often are theses doors
used every day. The real difference with commercial doors is that they are
designed for many more lifetime cycles and heavier doors.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
m...
Mike Dobony wrote:
..

My father had a full wood double door and had either a 1/4 or 1/3 hp
opener built around the 60's and it never failed other than needing a
new belt-drive (from motor to gear box) and a few new remotes. That
was an EXTREMELY heavy door. When I was 5 I could open it manually.
The spring is supposed to do all the work and negates the weight of
the door. That is what it is designed to do. A 1/4 hp opener SHOULD
be able to open any properly setup door.


Maybe not. Remember inertia from your high-school physics class? The
tendency of a body to resist acceleration; the tendency of a body at rest
to
remain at rest or of a body in motion to stay in motion in a straight line
unless acted on by an outside force.


Yet isn't the spring's function to neutralize this force? The spring
overcomes this to negate the user or mechanical opener from having to deal
with the full weight and inerta of the door.

Overall I still tend to believe that something has been missed. I
have
had 4 consumer garage doors over the last 30 years (two at a time) and I
have yet to have any of them fail. BTW for the last 15 years they have
been
on insulated aluminum doors.

Go ahead and put in a more expensive opener, but I suspect you will
either accidentally correct the problem, or you are going to find the same
thing happening.


But this time if there is still a problem I will not be dealing with the
problem. A call to the installer will have HIM dealing with it. For this
reason I am temtped to go to the Allstar due to the 20 year waranty on the
entire drive train, not just motor and conveyor chain.

Maybe we have forgotten on thing. Cycling! How often are theses
doors
used every day. The real difference with commercial doors is that they
are
designed for many more lifetime cycles and heavier doors.



Used 6-8 times a day. 2 cars each being used twice a day except on very
rare occasions when it might be use an additional time or 2.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Mike Dobony wrote:

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
m...
Mike Dobony wrote:
..

....
The spring is supposed to do all the work and negates the weight of
the door. That is what it is designed to do. A 1/4 hp opener SHOULD
be able to open any properly setup door.


Maybe not. Remember inertia from your high-school physics class? The
tendency of a body to resist acceleration; the tendency of a body at rest
to
remain at rest or of a body in motion to stay in motion in a straight line
unless acted on by an outside force.


Yet isn't the spring's function to neutralize this force? The spring
overcomes this to negate the user or mechanical opener from having to deal
with the full weight and inerta of the door.

Yes.

....

Mike Dobony wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
m...
Mike Dobony wrote:
..

My father had a full wood double door and had either a 1/4 or 1/3
hp opener built around the 60's and it never failed other than
needing a new belt-drive (from motor to gear box) and a few new
remotes. That was an EXTREMELY heavy door. When I was 5 I could
open it manually. The spring is supposed to do all the work and
negates the weight of the door. That is what it is designed to
do. A 1/4 hp opener SHOULD be able to open any properly setup
door.


Maybe not. Remember inertia from your high-school physics
class? The tendency of a body to resist acceleration; the tendency
of a body at rest to remain at rest or of a body in motion to stay
in motion in a straight line unless acted on by an outside force.


Yet isn't the spring's function to neutralize this force? The spring
overcomes this to negate the user or mechanical opener from having to
deal with the full weight and inerta of the door.

Well it means it does not have to deal with the full weight of the door,
but the inertia is still a possible problem. From your description of the
door, I doubt if it is any heavier than the norm and well within the
expected weight for a consumer door opener.


Overall I still tend to believe that something has been missed.
I have had 4 consumer garage doors over the last 30 years (two at a
time) and I have yet to have any of them fail. BTW for the last 15
years they have been on insulated aluminum doors.

Go ahead and put in a more expensive opener, but I suspect you
will either accidentally correct the problem, or you are going to
find the same thing happening.


But this time if there is still a problem I will not be dealing with
the problem. A call to the installer will have HIM dealing with it.
For this reason I am temtped to go to the Allstar due to the 20 year
waranty on the entire drive train, not just motor and conveyor chain.

That does not sound like a bad idea. Just make sure you read the
warranty well before you buy. :-)

At least then, you have have someone who is going to be responsible for
finding and fixing the problem without being able to walk away without
fixing it.


Maybe we have forgotten on thing. Cycling! How often are
theses doors used every day. The real difference with commercial
doors is that they are designed for many more lifetime cycles and
heavier doors.



Used 6-8 times a day. 2 cars each being used twice a day except on
very rare occasions when it might be use an additional time or 2.

That also sounds within reason.


Have a Happy Thanksgiving.



--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Joseph Meehan wrote:

....
Yet isn't the spring's function to neutralize this force? The spring
overcomes this to negate the user or mechanical opener from having to
deal with the full weight and inerta of the door.

Well it means it does not have to deal with the full weight of the door,
but the inertia is still a possible problem. ...

It'll divide w/ the relative weight carried by the spring as well...as
far as the motor knows, the door only weighs as much as the weight not
carried by the springs in the fully closed position.

Duane Bozarth wrote:
Joseph Meehan wrote:

...
Yet isn't the spring's function to neutralize this force? The
spring overcomes this to negate the user or mechanical opener from
having to deal with the full weight and inerta of the door.

Well it means it does not have to deal with the full weight of
the door, but the inertia is still a possible problem. ...

It'll divide w/ the relative weight carried by the spring as well...as
far as the motor knows, the door only weighs as much as the weight not
carried by the springs in the fully closed position.

No I am sorry but the inertia is not reduced at all by springs. The
springs can carry the weight of the door, but it does not change the mass of
the door and it is the mass that the problem I was talking about.

However as I said, based on your description of the door, it would seem
to be within the norms for a consumer door and should not be a problem.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

wrote in message
oups.com...
I have been following this thread, wondering like everyone else on what
is really causing your problem. While I will agree w/ you that the
professional openers are built better/stronger as in more durable then
some DYI openers I would have to agree that a new opener is not going
to solve the problem.

Issues that I can see:

You've had a number of professionals out that can't figure out the
problem but you are going to have one of them put in a new opener so it
will now be their problem. If they can't figure out the problem now,
how are they going to figure it out after you have bought & paid for a
new opener? (I don't believe a new opener will solve your problem no
matter what one you buy as many others have stated.) Also most
installers only give a one year guarantee on labor so after one year it
will once again be your problem, will it not?


To be more precise I am looking at a *different* pro that I just found on
the Chamberlain site. I never new about this installer.

You said everyone comments on how heavy the door is, but then you say
it works smooth & stays open at 4-5 feet. To me this sounds like a
contradiction. If the door is balanced properly it should not be heavy
off of the floor & the door should pretty much stay at any point you
let go of the door (slight drifting is normal) including 2 feet off of
the floor. If it drops like a rock from 2 feet the door isn't balanced
properly. If the door isn't heavy off of the floor why does everyone
comment on how heavy the door is?


I have never seen the 2' test. Yes, it drops like a rock and is barely able
to be opened wiht 1 hand.

You stated that the existing door already has the largest spring
available for residential doors. Where did this statement come from
because it makes no sense at all to me?

This came from the installer who replaced the broken springs.

The size of the spring is
determined by the size of the drums, the weight of the door, the height
of the door, & how much room is available on the shaft. So whether the
door is a residential door or a commercial door makes no difference &
the goal is not to have the largest springs but to have ones that are
properly balanced for the weight.

I am totally guessing & going out on a limb, but I would guess that
your door feels like a ton of bricks as it comes off of the floor & it
is this excessive weight that has been causing your problems & will
continue to do so until the door is balanced properly.


Yup. Having the new pro come out. I described the problme at 2' and he
believe it needs new, larger springs. I am also putting my old Chamberlain
screw drive back up for him to test it out. Taking the Idrive off. If this
still doesn't work I am going with the new contractor grade opener.

Doordoc

"Rich256" wrote in message
...

"Mike Dobony" wrote in message
...

"yourname" wrote in message
news:yaogf.4495$BU2.1276@trndny01...


And how many more others do you suggest I contact before recognizing
that a
store-bought unit just is not built well enough for my door? I want
something that works BEFORE springtime.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit




I have an 18 foot wide, 8 foot high cedar insulated door. It weighs
IIRC
800lbs. I have a screw type store bought opener. It has no problem.

It would have this mysterious symptom. close almost all the way down,
then stop reverse and open. Drove me nuts. turned out it was the
stupid
rope getting in the way of the sensors. Happened again last week,
after
not having it happen for more than a year. Rope wasn't in the way[tied
a
knot in it] Looking looking, checking switches.......there was a tiny
leaf, suspended on a spider web on the door, dangling in front of the
sensor.

My neighbors door faces a bit more west than mine, and clearer in
front
of it. wouldn't work in the afternoon. The sun glitched the sensors.


Problem is all day and all night when it happens. Door is facing north.
Checked the sensors first and they are clear and the indicator light is
on.
It only does this in cold weather. It does it no matter what the opener
is.
When the opener is brand new it doesn't happen often. Next season it
happens to the point it is impossible for the opener to open or close
the
door EVER. I end up having ot disconnect the opener and open and close
by
hand. I am getting a NEW commercial grade opener from someone who will
do
the servicing. I am tired of spending 15 winters with this problem and
having various garage door companies telling me the same exact thing,
the
door is fine.

Just curious as to exactly what happens. Does the door try to open?
Does
it open part way and then reverse?


Traditional openers: It will open part way and stop with an error (blinking
light). It will close part way and reverse with an error (blinking light).

The Idrive closes all the way and then opens again.

I too think those tape units are cheap. For a heavy door I would want a
screw drive. I presently use a Chamberlain chain drive but it is a very
light weight door.

I lean a bit towards Genie products over Chamberlain.