Mike Dobony wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...
.....
You said everyone comments on how heavy the door is, but then you say
it works smooth & stays open at 4-5 feet. To me this sounds like a
contradiction.

At half open, roughly half the weight is being held on the horizontal
tracks so isn't part of the equation any longer...

....
... If it drops like a rock from 2 feet the door isn't balanced
properly. If the door isn't heavy off of the floor why does everyone
comment on how heavy the door is?


I have never seen the 2' test. Yes, it drops like a rock and is barely able
to be opened wiht 1 hand.

Then the springs aren't big enough by whatever is needed to make it so
that isn't so...

You stated that the existing door already has the largest spring
available for residential doors. Where did this statement come from
because it makes no sense at all to me?

This came from the installer who replaced the broken springs.

Probably what that _really_ means is they were the largest he had in the
truck at the time...

There had to have been springs for it originally that were sufficiently
stout...

....

"Mike Dobony" wrote in message
...


I have never seen the 2' test. Yes, it drops like a rock and is barely
able
to be opened wiht 1 hand.

I would say that very definitely the door needs work and not the opener. I
had a slab door with similar weight. I went to heavier springs and couldn't
keep it closed. This was a type that used expansion type springs. I
replaced one big spring with two smaller ones that totaled out to be
stronger. I had to do a bunch adjustments to the mechanism to get it
balanced. Once that was done I could open the door with one finger.

Mike Dobony wrote:


I have never seen the 2' test. Yes, it drops like a rock and is
barely able to be opened wiht 1 hand.


BINGO! I think you found the problem.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

You stated the door drops from 2' and balances at 4' - 5'. What doe it do
when it is at the 7' mark? Does it hang into the opening or is it hard to
pull down? If it is heavy at the floor, balances midway and is hard to pull
down when it is full open the torsion springs are too long. You simply have
to shorten to the correct length for your application.

If it is heavy at the floor and balances midway with extension springs then
the door is under sprung.

Get an exact door weight by removing all the tension from springs and with
the help of some friends lower that door onto a scale. Once you get the
proper weight, purchase the correct springs for your door. Any door
regardless of the material it's made of or it's size should not be heavy at
all to lift by hand.

If your "pro" is just guessing at the weight then you should seek another
that will go through the process of obtaining the EXACT weight of your door
and springing accordingly. Properly done your door should be able to be
opened and closed with minimal effort and no stress/overload on your
electric opener.

Rich
http://www.garagedoorsupply.com



"Mike Dobony" wrote in message
...
I have just fought my last fight with diy garage door openers! The motor
holds up, but the door refuses to open OR close when cold weather comes
in.
I have had the door checked several times and it is fine. I am now
looking
at the Allstar MVP opener or the Chamberlain LiftMaster opener, either to
be
installed and maintained by a garage door company. If there are any
problems, let THEM take care of it. The Allstar is all metal gears, but I
can not find any info about the Chamberlain. The Allstar is a full roller
chain, no cable. The Chamberlain is the belt drive. The Allstar 20 year
warranty covers the entire drive train and only 2 years on the
electronics.
The Chamberlain's lifetime waranty covers only the motor and belt, and 5
years on everything else. The Allstar supposedly has a "shock-absorbing
door arm" to "soak up the sudden stops and starts of typical use,
protecing
the door and opener," however I see nothing in the manual about this arm.
Anybody have any personal experience with either of these units? Thanks.

"Rich" wrote in message
news:to%hf.136$iZ3.65@trndny03...
You stated the door drops from 2' and balances at 4' - 5'. What doe it
do
when it is at the 7' mark? Does it hang into the opening or is it hard to
pull down? If it is heavy at the floor, balances midway and is hard to
pull
down when it is full open the torsion springs are too long. You simply
have
to shorten to the correct length for your application.

If it is heavy at the floor and balances midway with extension springs
then
the door is under sprung.


I will NEVER put an extention spring on a door. I have torsion springs. It
is fine at 7'.

Get an exact door weight by removing all the tension from springs and with
the help of some friends lower that door onto a scale. Once you get the
proper weight, purchase the correct springs for your door. Any door
regardless of the material it's made of or it's size should not be heavy
at
all to lift by hand.


I have tried to set up the torsion springs or extention springs. It is NOT
something I am capable of doing myself.

If your "pro" is just guessing at the weight then you should seek another
that will go through the process of obtaining the EXACT weight of your
door
and springing accordingly. Properly done your door should be able to be
opened and closed with minimal effort and no stress/overload on your
electric opener.


I have a different pro coming in to look at it Monday. Unfortunately, it is
supposed to be a very warm day. The problem happens at or near freezing and
below. I agree that a properly set up door should be well within the
capability of even the smallest motored opener. It sure took enough time
and responses to get a proper, full test of my door. I put my screw drive
back on and it works fine. It is also 50 degrees out, not in the trouble
temps.

Rich
http://www.garagedoorsupply.com



"Mike Dobony" wrote in message
...
I have just fought my last fight with diy garage door openers! The motor
holds up, but the door refuses to open OR close when cold weather comes
in.
I have had the door checked several times and it is fine. I am now
looking
at the Allstar MVP opener or the Chamberlain LiftMaster opener, either
to
be
installed and maintained by a garage door company. If there are any
problems, let THEM take care of it. The Allstar is all metal gears, but
I
can not find any info about the Chamberlain. The Allstar is a full
roller
chain, no cable. The Chamberlain is the belt drive. The Allstar 20
year
warranty covers the entire drive train and only 2 years on the
electronics.
The Chamberlain's lifetime waranty covers only the motor and belt, and 5
years on everything else. The Allstar supposedly has a "shock-absorbing
door arm" to "soak up the sudden stops and starts of typical use,
protecing
the door and opener," however I see nothing in the manual about this
arm.
Anybody have any personal experience with either of these units?
Thanks.

I described the problem at 2' and he
believe it needs new, larger springs.

Actually if they are using the same wire size & diameter spring the
newer spring would need to be shorter then the ones you have now for
them to have more lifting power w/ the proper amount of turns. Once
again it all depends on the weight of the door & the size of the drums.


Since you have a 16x7 it most likely has 4" drums, so you take the full
weight of the door w/ no tension & multiply it by .29 (that's point 29)
to get the IPPT (inch pounds per turn) of the springs. If there is 2
springs you divide the calculated weight by two & then look on a chart
to find springs w/ that IPPT & make sure that the springs are rated for
at least 10,000 cycles w/ 7-1/2 turns on them. (Most of our guys in
Florida weigh the door & then call in to the office to have someone use
a software program to calculate the proper springs). If it's done right
you should be able to easily lift the door off the floor & to the full
open position w/ one hand.

I'm not a big fan of DYI openers either, but if everyone had to use 5
different openers in 15 years (new one every 3 years on average) I
don't think anyone would continue to buy them & the stores wouldn't
carry them. They may not be the very best in my opinion, but they
should last alot more then 3 years.

Good luck in getting your door fixed properly!!! Unfortunately as you
have found out there are alot of people in this type of business that
don't have a clue how the doors are really suppose to work.

Doordoc

wrote in message
oups.com...
I described the problem at 2' and he
believe it needs new, larger springs.

Actually if they are using the same wire size & diameter spring the
newer spring would need to be shorter then the ones you have now for
them to have more lifting power w/ the proper amount of turns. Once
again it all depends on the weight of the door & the size of the drums.


This makes sense as each coil carries more weight at full rotation (down )
and stops working at full open.


Since you have a 16x7 it most likely has 4" drums, so you take the full
weight of the door w/ no tension & multiply it by .29 (that's point 29)
to get the IPPT (inch pounds per turn) of the springs. If there is 2
springs you divide the calculated weight by two & then look on a chart
to find springs w/ that IPPT & make sure that the springs are rated for
at least 10,000 cycles w/ 7-1/2 turns on them. (Most of our guys in
Florida weigh the door & then call in to the office to have someone use
a software program to calculate the proper springs). If it's done right
you should be able to easily lift the door off the floor & to the full
open position w/ one hand.


How does the cold affect this rating? It opens and closes fine above about
40 degrees, but starts making trouble below that temp.

I'm not a big fan of DYI openers either, but if everyone had to use 5
different openers in 15 years (new one every 3 years on average) I
don't think anyone would continue to buy them & the stores wouldn't
carry them. They may not be the very best in my opinion, but they
should last alot more then 3 years.

Good luck in getting your door fixed properly!!! Unfortunately as you
have found out there are alot of people in this type of business that
don't have a clue how the doors are really suppose to work.

Doordoc

The cold shouldn't affect the spring rating much at all.I believe the
door has been heavy off of the floor for sometime & that the cold tends
to thicken grease, etc & cause other frictions which is enough to cause
the opener to not work & the additional weight wears the opener parts
out pre-maturely.

Doordoc

wrote in message
ups.com...
The cold shouldn't affect the spring rating much at all.I believe the
door has been heavy off of the floor for sometime & that the cold tends
to thicken grease, etc & cause other frictions which is enough to cause
the opener to not work & the additional weight wears the opener parts
out pre-maturely.

Doordoc


Opener parts are fine. It just refuse to open or close fully. The new guy
caome over today and only lubricated all the rollers and bearings and even
the spring (????), but didn't change the door. It holds open at about 2',
but drops like a rock from there. My only other options are to find yet
another pro or put another 1/2 wind on the springs. I can't tell how many
winds are on the present spring as the painted line is gone on both springs.
I guess I could get a few bathroom scales to check the weight of the door
and get new springs and try to set it up again myself. Any web sites with
info on how to set up a torsion spring properly?

On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:46:45 -0600, "Mike Dobony"
Any web sites with
info on how to set up a torsion spring properly?

http://www.truetex.com/garage.htm
http://www.garagedoorsupply.com/gara...r-springs.html