On 3/17/2021 4:42 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 11:09:04 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
Snip


BTW, the "mobility kit" for the lathe was $500. Yes, halfa-grand!
It's a little heavy to move. It is a wonder to behold though. A
marvel of over-engineering.

The crappy kit for the bandsaw was $150, IIRC. It works but the rear
wheels and axle are really cheezy for that kind of money.

I have a hoist fixed in one spot so after assembly everything has to
move into its place. I'm alone and not about to lift these things
without some serious mechanical advantage.

My house is built with "engineered" beams so won't take anything
heavier than a light fixture hanging from them. I had to find
somewhere that wires didn't interfere too badly and build a beam
between walls at that spot to support a hoist. That spot is right
behind my saw so everything moves.

BTW, I used the Sagulator to design the beam(s). .25" deflection at
1000lbs, center concentrated, between walls 13' apart.

Did you use the LFAS method? ;~)


I was considering the 2 swivel but decided that maneuvering with 4
swivels means I can move it in any direction to park, parallel or
perpendicular to a fixed wall or object.

Yes, but I think that one had just hit the market so they were blowing
out the older ones for $50. I thought I could live with it.

On Thursday, March 18, 2021 at 10:17:24 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 3/17/2021 3:25 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 10:49:22 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/16/2021 2:03 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 10:14:00 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 3/15/2021 8:50 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 09:35:15 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/14/2021 8:54 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 09:11:21 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/13/2021 1:49 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Mar 2021 09:10:38 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/12/2021 11:54 PM, wrote:
On Friday, March 12, 2021 at 4:28:38 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Laguna finally came out with their new line of jointers. The higher
end 8" helical jointer looks nice but at $2750, I think it's out of my
range. Interestingly, all of the Laguna jointers are parallogram.
There are no more dovetail jointers in their lineup. They have 54
cutters, like Powermatic.

The lower end 8" jointer is very similar (1.5HP vs 1.75HP WOW!) but
only has 20 cutters and goes for $2000. 20 cutters, really? There is
a picture of the cutter head. It looks like a kid missing half its
teeth. https://lagunatools.com/classic/jointers/jx8-eco/ Click on
the plus sign on the safety cover.

It's very different than either the Jet or Powermatic so it's a tough
call.

Is HP really much of a concern with jointers? I think its kind of like a drill press. HP isn't really a factor in deciding which drill press to buy. With a jointer you will be taking off more wood the wider the jointer is. But you can and do adjust the depth of cut so you are only taking off a tiny tiny tiny amount of wood. And you sneak up on taking off the wood. You don't start taking off a full cut. Now I'm not saying you want an underpowered jointer. But once you get enough HP, its enough. You can then ignore that spec.



I would agree with that analogy. With less HP you can make a shallower
cut or feed slower.

BUT BUT BUT.

If the lower HP jointer has less than 1/2 the amount of teeth I would
think that each tooth is taking a bigger bite. And that could
"Possibly" be "something". LOL

Old style planers essentially had 3~4 blades that cut all across the
board. And that is a bigger hunk of wood being removed with each knife cut.

Yes, but there is always multiple teeth cutting in the helical cutter.
Any "flywheel" effect isn't going to help.

I certainly think this can be "over thought" into indecision.

Isn't that what we're here for?


LOL. I keep forgetting that. Provide as many scenarios as possible.
And add situations that are not pertinent to the issue. ;!)

Seriously, that's about where I am. I was 90% sure the Laguna was the
right way to go but the new, lower end one just isn't going to happen.
Only 20 knives? I don't seen $2800 for the upper model either. The
Powermatic is high, too. Unless something happens, it looks like the
Jet is the better deal. Jet always seems to have a 10% sale going on
so that pays the sales tax and a (very) little.



Well, the Laguna is certainly a more "sexy" looking machine and we all
know that is an important category.. ;!)
I had that to consider between the Jet and the Hammer. So maybe not so
important. ;~)

Then the color, that is going to be as clear as black or white.

Boo! Hiss! You should be punished for that one.
Two birds with one stone....

So with the lower end Laguna with 20 teeth...The upper end with almost
triple the teeth, 54, The Jet falls some where in between
with 36. I think that 20 teeth would be maybe a bit too coarse. I
think feed rate will even out the playing field on all of these models.

My 12" Jet has 56 teeth so the ratio is the same as with the 36 teeth on
the 8" Jet. I can attest that the cut is smooth AND QUIET or should I
say, q u i e t.

BUT with 54 teeth,,,, I would think smoother. But where do you draw the
line? Are you going to apply a finish as the work exits the jointer or
will you finish sand? If you are going to sand I would think the
quality of the cut on the Jet will be fine.

Sand. I have a drum sander so I might just as well use it. Edges
don't get sanded. For joints, that's pretty important. OTOH, the saw
is going to get to the edges anyway.
Me too but I rarely use it after the planer, more for smoothing out BS
rough cut, thicknessing a rough cut.

I do edge sand cabinet doors and drawer fronts.
Now I use the new Festool attachment for that.
Yesterday I edge sanded 16 drawer fronts, twice.

Once for the 90 degree edge and then again for the 45 degree
champher/bevel that I added to the front outside edge on the router table.

The guard might be a consideration but they all appear to be the
American version, pork chop. Oddly I thought the Euro style would be
weird. After using it I prefer it just from the stand point that the
American version slaps the fence every time the work clears.

I can see where the European style would be preferable. I hadn't seen
that before.
I think it is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. I hated the slap
of the pork vchop on my old jointer.

Table height is almost the same for both. The style/thickness of the
soles on the shoes you wear in the shop probably differs more.

Where do you like the switch? It appears that the Jet has dual
positions, high or low.
apparently you get both with the Laguna and the bump bar across the
front. I wonder if that would be an accidental shut down issue. I
often accidentally turn my SawStop off by leaning into the on off switch.

I thought of that for a minute but now that you mention it, it's
probably not a good idea. Turning it off in the middle of a cut
probably wouldn't be good. I also turn off my saw with my hip. It
keeps my hands free and eyes on them.


Table adjustments. That is a big difference between the two.. The
crank on the Laguna will be finer to adjust but slower. The lever on
the Jet is quick but more coarse. With a jointer the fine tune adjust
with the wheels is probably not a factor. And how often will you make
those adjustments once you find the setting that you like.

The Jet JWJ-8HH has cranks. The new Laguna has the levers. I played
with a Powermatic at Woodcraft. I couldn't figure out how to use
them. I got that they moved the table and that twisting them did
something but locking the lever also locked the twist.
I stand corrected. And YES the Powermatic is really strange. It's like
they wanted to be different but not in a good way.

Voltage is the same so you will have to deal with that.

The Laguna is 3 hp, the Jet is 2 hp. 2 is probably going to be plenty.

I have two 20A circuits, one for the DC and the other for the tools
(they aren't going to be used at the same time). A 30A (3HP) circuit
would be a RPITA.
Yes, and why I have a long 10/3 extension cord.

Can you put your hands on one before the purchase. Rockler and
Woodcraft are common stores, maybe not for you, but both carry both
brands. BUT right NOW neither are likely to have one on the floor to
look at. My local Woodcraft store is almost empty of anything that is
not built in the USA.

We have both (two of each, actually). With the shortage of power
tools, no one has anything right now. I'm really not ready to buy
quite yet so maybe the situation will correct itself before I am.
I understand the "over seas" manufacturers production is way down.

Will shipping be a consideration? I had my jointer/planer delivered
into my garage for $25 above purchase price,

Yeah. I'm done moving tools like that in my pickup. I gust about
ruptured a duck getting the lathe from the pickup into the basement.. I
would have left it until morning but it was supposed to rain. I
didn't think it would be a good idea.

Is the Laguna mobile? YES, build in wheels.

The old one had fixed wheels. From the ratings it was an issue
moosing it around the shop.

Fixed wheels are better than no wheels but not much... My drum sander
has an enclosed base with fixed wheels. I have managed to place it
against a wall in a location that does not require turning. I pull it
straight out whan I use it and push it straight back in when I'm done.
I'm certain that it is lighter weight than a jointer so turning a
jointer will probably be more troublesome.

I bought the top end Bora mobile base for my 500 lb. jointer/planer.
Each wheel swivels vs the model with only 2 swivel wheels. It actually
glides more easily than my SawStop mobile base, and I thought it was
pretty easy to maneuver. The SawStop will remain in place when elevated
on to the wheels. The jointer will take off towards the garage door
opening, natural slant of the garage floor. I have to keep at least one
of the locking feet at each wheel, 4, locked.

And 4 wheels are probably better than 3.

Well with 3 wheels the equipment is stable, no rocking on an uneven
floor. If there is enough flex in the base 4 wheel works.

Not so fast. It's three wheels but four pads, the worst of both
worlds. The triangle under the three wheels doesn't have the same
base lines so a top-heavy machine is in much worse shape. A widget
will fall once it's center of gravity moves outside it's base in any
direction. The square layout of the "adjustment" pads makes it rock
on uneven floors. While the four-point adjustment pads can adjust,
the wheels allow the tool to move so adjusting is a useless exercise
in frustration.


I've got my table saw on a one of these bases.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Delta-Un...-345/203293655

I have my DP, bench top sanding station, and router table on those..
With OAK the one under the DP is barely adequate. A lot of flex.

Now put a 500# bandsaw on one. Tiimmmbeeerrrrr!


It's fine for straight in and out of it's storage spot, which works for the
vast majority of how I use it, but I have no room for wide sweeping turns.
If I need to move it sideways, I basically have to drag it.

You don't know how to make a 75 point turn? LOL

What's the point?


I really need to add 4 swiveling wheels. The only thing slowing me down is
that changing the height would mean modifying my outfeed table. I mounted
a channel on the back of the saw that the OFT slips into. The far end rests
on my workbench, perfectly level.

My out feed is mounted solely on the TS so no issues. I can even move
the saw with the out feed up and loaded.

The room my TS is in is rather cramped (TS, BS, DP, upright cabinets,
and cutting table (i.e. track saw) so I have one of these for an
outfeed table:
https://www.kregtool.com/shop/workspace/bench-systems/
I used this on my old Jet cabinet saw and Now on my SawStop. For me It
is perfect. I never have to put it down to move the saw, it is always
on the same plane as the TS top as it is mounted directly to the saw and
takes up little room when folded down.

WOW have those things gone up!!! I paid $250 the first time 22 years
ago and about $300 8 years ago.

https://www.woodcraft.com/products/h...hoCCAQQAvD_BwE


That might work on my Craftsman 113 TS...as long as I removed the motor. ;-)

In my case, the same outfeed table that rests on the workbench most of the time
can be mounted in a similar manner as the HTC OFT so that it moves with the saw.

https://i.imgur.com/sbDYWx3.jpg

All I need to do is grab the 1 x 12 board and let gravity do it's job. The spacer at the
far end of the OFT serves 2 purposes. It makes the OFT dead level with the TS when
the OFT is resting on the workbench and it also prevents the 1 x diagonal board from
sliding out when I go mobile.

At the TS side, the OFT is friction fit between 2 pieces of angle iron and 2 drop-in
bolts act as pins to keep it inside the iron. I've got 2 extra storage holes in the angle
iron upstream of the OFT so I don't ever have to put the pins down. Haven't lost
them yet. ;-)

In a shop as small as mine, you have to do what you have to do. Ask Gunny Highway.

On 3/18/2021 12:06 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, March 18, 2021 at 10:17:24 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 3/17/2021 3:25 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 10:49:22 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/16/2021 2:03 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 10:14:00 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 3/15/2021 8:50 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 09:35:15 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/14/2021 8:54 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 09:11:21 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/13/2021 1:49 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Mar 2021 09:10:38 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/12/2021 11:54 PM, wrote:
On Friday, March 12, 2021 at 4:28:38 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Laguna finally came out with their new line of jointers. The higher
end 8" helical jointer looks nice but at $2750, I think it's out of my
range. Interestingly, all of the Laguna jointers are parallogram.
There are no more dovetail jointers in their lineup. They have 54
cutters, like Powermatic.

The lower end 8" jointer is very similar (1.5HP vs 1.75HP WOW!) but
only has 20 cutters and goes for $2000. 20 cutters, really? There is
a picture of the cutter head. It looks like a kid missing half its
teeth. https://lagunatools.com/classic/jointers/jx8-eco/ Click on
the plus sign on the safety cover.

It's very different than either the Jet or Powermatic so it's a tough
call.

Is HP really much of a concern with jointers? I think its kind of like a drill press. HP isn't really a factor in deciding which drill press to buy. With a jointer you will be taking off more wood the wider the jointer is. But you can and do adjust the depth of cut so you are only taking off a tiny tiny tiny amount of wood. And you sneak up on taking off the wood. You don't start taking off a full cut. Now I'm not saying you want an underpowered jointer. But once you get enough HP, its enough. You can then ignore that spec.



I would agree with that analogy. With less HP you can make a shallower
cut or feed slower.

BUT BUT BUT.

If the lower HP jointer has less than 1/2 the amount of teeth I would
think that each tooth is taking a bigger bite. And that could
"Possibly" be "something". LOL

Old style planers essentially had 3~4 blades that cut all across the
board. And that is a bigger hunk of wood being removed with each knife cut.

Yes, but there is always multiple teeth cutting in the helical cutter.
Any "flywheel" effect isn't going to help.

I certainly think this can be "over thought" into indecision.

Isn't that what we're here for?


LOL. I keep forgetting that. Provide as many scenarios as possible.
And add situations that are not pertinent to the issue. ;!)

Seriously, that's about where I am. I was 90% sure the Laguna was the
right way to go but the new, lower end one just isn't going to happen.
Only 20 knives? I don't seen $2800 for the upper model either. The
Powermatic is high, too. Unless something happens, it looks like the
Jet is the better deal. Jet always seems to have a 10% sale going on
so that pays the sales tax and a (very) little.



Well, the Laguna is certainly a more "sexy" looking machine and we all
know that is an important category.. ;!)
I had that to consider between the Jet and the Hammer. So maybe not so
important. ;~)

Then the color, that is going to be as clear as black or white.

Boo! Hiss! You should be punished for that one.
Two birds with one stone....

So with the lower end Laguna with 20 teeth...The upper end with almost
triple the teeth, 54, The Jet falls some where in between
with 36. I think that 20 teeth would be maybe a bit too coarse. I
think feed rate will even out the playing field on all of these models.

My 12" Jet has 56 teeth so the ratio is the same as with the 36 teeth on
the 8" Jet. I can attest that the cut is smooth AND QUIET or should I
say, q u i e t.

BUT with 54 teeth,,,, I would think smoother. But where do you draw the
line? Are you going to apply a finish as the work exits the jointer or
will you finish sand? If you are going to sand I would think the
quality of the cut on the Jet will be fine.

Sand. I have a drum sander so I might just as well use it. Edges
don't get sanded. For joints, that's pretty important. OTOH, the saw
is going to get to the edges anyway.
Me too but I rarely use it after the planer, more for smoothing out BS
rough cut, thicknessing a rough cut.

I do edge sand cabinet doors and drawer fronts.
Now I use the new Festool attachment for that.
Yesterday I edge sanded 16 drawer fronts, twice.

Once for the 90 degree edge and then again for the 45 degree
champher/bevel that I added to the front outside edge on the router table.

The guard might be a consideration but they all appear to be the
American version, pork chop. Oddly I thought the Euro style would be
weird. After using it I prefer it just from the stand point that the
American version slaps the fence every time the work clears.

I can see where the European style would be preferable. I hadn't seen
that before.
I think it is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. I hated the slap
of the pork vchop on my old jointer.

Table height is almost the same for both. The style/thickness of the
soles on the shoes you wear in the shop probably differs more.

Where do you like the switch? It appears that the Jet has dual
positions, high or low.
apparently you get both with the Laguna and the bump bar across the
front. I wonder if that would be an accidental shut down issue. I
often accidentally turn my SawStop off by leaning into the on off switch.

I thought of that for a minute but now that you mention it, it's
probably not a good idea. Turning it off in the middle of a cut
probably wouldn't be good. I also turn off my saw with my hip. It
keeps my hands free and eyes on them.


Table adjustments. That is a big difference between the two.. The
crank on the Laguna will be finer to adjust but slower. The lever on
the Jet is quick but more coarse. With a jointer the fine tune adjust
with the wheels is probably not a factor. And how often will you make
those adjustments once you find the setting that you like.

The Jet JWJ-8HH has cranks. The new Laguna has the levers. I played
with a Powermatic at Woodcraft. I couldn't figure out how to use
them. I got that they moved the table and that twisting them did
something but locking the lever also locked the twist.
I stand corrected. And YES the Powermatic is really strange. It's like
they wanted to be different but not in a good way.

Voltage is the same so you will have to deal with that.

The Laguna is 3 hp, the Jet is 2 hp. 2 is probably going to be plenty.

I have two 20A circuits, one for the DC and the other for the tools
(they aren't going to be used at the same time). A 30A (3HP) circuit
would be a RPITA.
Yes, and why I have a long 10/3 extension cord.

Can you put your hands on one before the purchase. Rockler and
Woodcraft are common stores, maybe not for you, but both carry both
brands. BUT right NOW neither are likely to have one on the floor to
look at. My local Woodcraft store is almost empty of anything that is
not built in the USA.

We have both (two of each, actually). With the shortage of power
tools, no one has anything right now. I'm really not ready to buy
quite yet so maybe the situation will correct itself before I am.
I understand the "over seas" manufacturers production is way down.

Will shipping be a consideration? I had my jointer/planer delivered
into my garage for $25 above purchase price,

Yeah. I'm done moving tools like that in my pickup. I gust about
ruptured a duck getting the lathe from the pickup into the basement. I
would have left it until morning but it was supposed to rain. I
didn't think it would be a good idea.

Is the Laguna mobile? YES, build in wheels.

The old one had fixed wheels. From the ratings it was an issue
moosing it around the shop.

Fixed wheels are better than no wheels but not much... My drum sander
has an enclosed base with fixed wheels. I have managed to place it
against a wall in a location that does not require turning. I pull it
straight out whan I use it and push it straight back in when I'm done.
I'm certain that it is lighter weight than a jointer so turning a
jointer will probably be more troublesome.

I bought the top end Bora mobile base for my 500 lb. jointer/planer.
Each wheel swivels vs the model with only 2 swivel wheels. It actually
glides more easily than my SawStop mobile base, and I thought it was
pretty easy to maneuver. The SawStop will remain in place when elevated
on to the wheels. The jointer will take off towards the garage door
opening, natural slant of the garage floor. I have to keep at least one
of the locking feet at each wheel, 4, locked.

And 4 wheels are probably better than 3.

Well with 3 wheels the equipment is stable, no rocking on an uneven
floor. If there is enough flex in the base 4 wheel works.

Not so fast. It's three wheels but four pads, the worst of both
worlds. The triangle under the three wheels doesn't have the same
base lines so a top-heavy machine is in much worse shape. A widget
will fall once it's center of gravity moves outside it's base in any
direction. The square layout of the "adjustment" pads makes it rock
on uneven floors. While the four-point adjustment pads can adjust,
the wheels allow the tool to move so adjusting is a useless exercise
in frustration.


I've got my table saw on a one of these bases.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Delta-Un...-345/203293655

I have my DP, bench top sanding station, and router table on those..
With OAK the one under the DP is barely adequate. A lot of flex.

Now put a 500# bandsaw on one. Tiimmmbeeerrrrr!


It's fine for straight in and out of it's storage spot, which works for the
vast majority of how I use it, but I have no room for wide sweeping turns.
If I need to move it sideways, I basically have to drag it.

You don't know how to make a 75 point turn? LOL

What's the point?


I really need to add 4 swiveling wheels. The only thing slowing me down is
that changing the height would mean modifying my outfeed table. I mounted
a channel on the back of the saw that the OFT slips into. The far end rests
on my workbench, perfectly level.

My out feed is mounted solely on the TS so no issues. I can even move
the saw with the out feed up and loaded.

The room my TS is in is rather cramped (TS, BS, DP, upright cabinets,
and cutting table (i.e. track saw) so I have one of these for an
outfeed table:
https://www.kregtool.com/shop/workspace/bench-systems/
I used this on my old Jet cabinet saw and Now on my SawStop. For me It
is perfect. I never have to put it down to move the saw, it is always
on the same plane as the TS top as it is mounted directly to the saw and
takes up little room when folded down.

WOW have those things gone up!!! I paid $250 the first time 22 years
ago and about $300 8 years ago.

https://www.woodcraft.com/products/h...hoCCAQQAvD_BwE


That might work on my Craftsman 113 TS...as long as I removed the motor. ;-)

In my case, the same outfeed table that rests on the workbench most of the time
can be mounted in a similar manner as the HTC OFT so that it moves with the saw.

https://i.imgur.com/sbDYWx3.jpg

I think I had that saw too. Funny how the pulley guard, On the motor,
eats through the guard. So I had and our feed on mine too. It was from
WoodSmith plans. It had a slotted arm on each end of the saw. The out
feed slid along the arms with dowel pins and bolts.




All I need to do is grab the 1 x 12 board and let gravity do it's job. The spacer at the
far end of the OFT serves 2 purposes. It makes the OFT dead level with the TS when
the OFT is resting on the workbench and it also prevents the 1 x diagonal board from
sliding out when I go mobile.

At the TS side, the OFT is friction fit between 2 pieces of angle iron and 2 drop-in
bolts act as pins to keep it inside the iron. I've got 2 extra storage holes in the angle
iron upstream of the OFT so I don't ever have to put the pins down. Haven't lost
them yet. ;-)

In a shop as small as mine, you have to do what you have to do. Ask Gunny Highway.


I used to have my shop and equipment ins a 2 car garage along with n
upright freezer, washer and dryer, wife's car, and yard stuff.
It was a puzzle to get everything out and back in.
I am now in a 3 car garage,and thought I was running out of room minus
the washer & dryer, freezer, and yard stuff. And then I added the
jointer and moved a couple of things to a new location. Seems I no
longer have a space issue. Funny how doing a little rearranging really
opens things up.

On Thursday, March 18, 2021 at 2:46:08 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 3/18/2021 12:06 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, March 18, 2021 at 10:17:24 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 3/17/2021 3:25 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 10:49:22 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/16/2021 2:03 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 10:14:00 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 3/15/2021 8:50 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 09:35:15 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/14/2021 8:54 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 09:11:21 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/13/2021 1:49 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Mar 2021 09:10:38 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/12/2021 11:54 PM, wrote:
On Friday, March 12, 2021 at 4:28:38 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Laguna finally came out with their new line of jointers. The higher
end 8" helical jointer looks nice but at $2750, I think it's out of my
range. Interestingly, all of the Laguna jointers are parallogram.
There are no more dovetail jointers in their lineup. They have 54
cutters, like Powermatic.

The lower end 8" jointer is very similar (1.5HP vs 1.75HP WOW!) but
only has 20 cutters and goes for $2000. 20 cutters, really? There is
a picture of the cutter head. It looks like a kid missing half its
teeth. https://lagunatools.com/classic/jointers/jx8-eco/ Click on
the plus sign on the safety cover.

It's very different than either the Jet or Powermatic so it's a tough
call.

Is HP really much of a concern with jointers? I think its kind of like a drill press. HP isn't really a factor in deciding which drill press to buy. With a jointer you will be taking off more wood the wider the jointer is. But you can and do adjust the depth of cut so you are only taking off a tiny tiny tiny amount of wood. And you sneak up on taking off the wood. You don't start taking off a full cut. Now I'm not saying you want an underpowered jointer. But once you get enough HP, its enough. You can then ignore that spec.



I would agree with that analogy. With less HP you can make a shallower
cut or feed slower.

BUT BUT BUT.

If the lower HP jointer has less than 1/2 the amount of teeth I would
think that each tooth is taking a bigger bite. And that could
"Possibly" be "something". LOL

Old style planers essentially had 3~4 blades that cut all across the
board. And that is a bigger hunk of wood being removed with each knife cut.

Yes, but there is always multiple teeth cutting in the helical cutter.
Any "flywheel" effect isn't going to help.

I certainly think this can be "over thought" into indecision..

Isn't that what we're here for?


LOL. I keep forgetting that. Provide as many scenarios as possible.
And add situations that are not pertinent to the issue. ;!)

Seriously, that's about where I am. I was 90% sure the Laguna was the
right way to go but the new, lower end one just isn't going to happen.
Only 20 knives? I don't seen $2800 for the upper model either. The
Powermatic is high, too. Unless something happens, it looks like the
Jet is the better deal. Jet always seems to have a 10% sale going on
so that pays the sales tax and a (very) little.



Well, the Laguna is certainly a more "sexy" looking machine and we all
know that is an important category.. ;!)
I had that to consider between the Jet and the Hammer. So maybe not so
important. ;~)

Then the color, that is going to be as clear as black or white.

Boo! Hiss! You should be punished for that one.
Two birds with one stone....

So with the lower end Laguna with 20 teeth...The upper end with almost
triple the teeth, 54, The Jet falls some where in between
with 36. I think that 20 teeth would be maybe a bit too coarse. I
think feed rate will even out the playing field on all of these models.

My 12" Jet has 56 teeth so the ratio is the same as with the 36 teeth on
the 8" Jet. I can attest that the cut is smooth AND QUIET or should I
say, q u i e t.

BUT with 54 teeth,,,, I would think smoother. But where do you draw the
line? Are you going to apply a finish as the work exits the jointer or
will you finish sand? If you are going to sand I would think the
quality of the cut on the Jet will be fine.

Sand. I have a drum sander so I might just as well use it. Edges
don't get sanded. For joints, that's pretty important. OTOH, the saw
is going to get to the edges anyway.
Me too but I rarely use it after the planer, more for smoothing out BS
rough cut, thicknessing a rough cut.

I do edge sand cabinet doors and drawer fronts.
Now I use the new Festool attachment for that.
Yesterday I edge sanded 16 drawer fronts, twice.

Once for the 90 degree edge and then again for the 45 degree
champher/bevel that I added to the front outside edge on the router table.

The guard might be a consideration but they all appear to be the
American version, pork chop. Oddly I thought the Euro style would be
weird. After using it I prefer it just from the stand point that the
American version slaps the fence every time the work clears.

I can see where the European style would be preferable. I hadn't seen
that before.
I think it is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. I hated the slap
of the pork vchop on my old jointer.

Table height is almost the same for both. The style/thickness of the
soles on the shoes you wear in the shop probably differs more.

Where do you like the switch? It appears that the Jet has dual
positions, high or low.
apparently you get both with the Laguna and the bump bar across the
front. I wonder if that would be an accidental shut down issue. I
often accidentally turn my SawStop off by leaning into the on off switch.

I thought of that for a minute but now that you mention it, it's
probably not a good idea. Turning it off in the middle of a cut
probably wouldn't be good. I also turn off my saw with my hip. It
keeps my hands free and eyes on them.


Table adjustments. That is a big difference between the two.. The
crank on the Laguna will be finer to adjust but slower. The lever on
the Jet is quick but more coarse. With a jointer the fine tune adjust
with the wheels is probably not a factor. And how often will you make
those adjustments once you find the setting that you like.

The Jet JWJ-8HH has cranks. The new Laguna has the levers. I played
with a Powermatic at Woodcraft. I couldn't figure out how to use
them. I got that they moved the table and that twisting them did
something but locking the lever also locked the twist.
I stand corrected. And YES the Powermatic is really strange. It's like
they wanted to be different but not in a good way.

Voltage is the same so you will have to deal with that.

The Laguna is 3 hp, the Jet is 2 hp. 2 is probably going to be plenty.

I have two 20A circuits, one for the DC and the other for the tools
(they aren't going to be used at the same time). A 30A (3HP) circuit
would be a RPITA.
Yes, and why I have a long 10/3 extension cord.

Can you put your hands on one before the purchase. Rockler and
Woodcraft are common stores, maybe not for you, but both carry both
brands. BUT right NOW neither are likely to have one on the floor to
look at. My local Woodcraft store is almost empty of anything that is
not built in the USA.

We have both (two of each, actually). With the shortage of power
tools, no one has anything right now. I'm really not ready to buy
quite yet so maybe the situation will correct itself before I am.
I understand the "over seas" manufacturers production is way down.

Will shipping be a consideration? I had my jointer/planer delivered
into my garage for $25 above purchase price,

Yeah. I'm done moving tools like that in my pickup. I gust about
ruptured a duck getting the lathe from the pickup into the basement. I
would have left it until morning but it was supposed to rain. I
didn't think it would be a good idea.

Is the Laguna mobile? YES, build in wheels.

The old one had fixed wheels. From the ratings it was an issue
moosing it around the shop.

Fixed wheels are better than no wheels but not much... My drum sander
has an enclosed base with fixed wheels. I have managed to place it
against a wall in a location that does not require turning. I pull it
straight out whan I use it and push it straight back in when I'm done.
I'm certain that it is lighter weight than a jointer so turning a
jointer will probably be more troublesome.

I bought the top end Bora mobile base for my 500 lb. jointer/planer.
Each wheel swivels vs the model with only 2 swivel wheels. It actually
glides more easily than my SawStop mobile base, and I thought it was
pretty easy to maneuver. The SawStop will remain in place when elevated
on to the wheels. The jointer will take off towards the garage door
opening, natural slant of the garage floor. I have to keep at least one
of the locking feet at each wheel, 4, locked.

And 4 wheels are probably better than 3.

Well with 3 wheels the equipment is stable, no rocking on an uneven
floor. If there is enough flex in the base 4 wheel works.

Not so fast. It's three wheels but four pads, the worst of both
worlds. The triangle under the three wheels doesn't have the same
base lines so a top-heavy machine is in much worse shape. A widget
will fall once it's center of gravity moves outside it's base in any
direction. The square layout of the "adjustment" pads makes it rock
on uneven floors. While the four-point adjustment pads can adjust,
the wheels allow the tool to move so adjusting is a useless exercise
in frustration.


I've got my table saw on a one of these bases.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Delta-Un...-345/203293655

I have my DP, bench top sanding station, and router table on those..
With OAK the one under the DP is barely adequate. A lot of flex.

Now put a 500# bandsaw on one. Tiimmmbeeerrrrr!


It's fine for straight in and out of it's storage spot, which works for the
vast majority of how I use it, but I have no room for wide sweeping turns.
If I need to move it sideways, I basically have to drag it.

You don't know how to make a 75 point turn? LOL

What's the point?


I really need to add 4 swiveling wheels. The only thing slowing me down is
that changing the height would mean modifying my outfeed table. I mounted
a channel on the back of the saw that the OFT slips into. The far end rests
on my workbench, perfectly level.

My out feed is mounted solely on the TS so no issues. I can even move
the saw with the out feed up and loaded.

The room my TS is in is rather cramped (TS, BS, DP, upright cabinets,
and cutting table (i.e. track saw) so I have one of these for an
outfeed table:
https://www.kregtool.com/shop/workspace/bench-systems/
I used this on my old Jet cabinet saw and Now on my SawStop. For me It
is perfect. I never have to put it down to move the saw, it is always
on the same plane as the TS top as it is mounted directly to the saw and
takes up little room when folded down.

WOW have those things gone up!!! I paid $250 the first time 22 years
ago and about $300 8 years ago.

https://www.woodcraft.com/products/h...hoCCAQQAvD_BwE


That might work on my Craftsman 113 TS...as long as I removed the motor.. ;-)

In my case, the same outfeed table that rests on the workbench most of the time
can be mounted in a similar manner as the HTC OFT so that it moves with the saw.

https://i.imgur.com/sbDYWx3.jpg
I think I had that saw too. Funny how the pulley guard, On the motor,
eats through the guard. So I had and our feed on mine too. It was from
WoodSmith plans. It had a slotted arm on each end of the saw. The out
feed slid along the arms with dowel pins and bolts.

I'm not picturing how an OFT would mount on the saw based on that limited
description. Could you expand on that - after reading the following - ?

When I pull the TS straight out of the hole-in-the-wall - the only way it can be pulled
out - I have about 12" between the back of the saw's table and the workbench.
Look to the left of the saw. That's the edge of the workbench just above the motor.

https://i.imgur.com/F2sD4KY.jpg

To install my OFT I essentially place it on the workbench and slide it towards the saw
into it's angle iron slot, then drop in the pins. There is no room to swing anything up,
slide up from the sides, etc.

Without hefting the saw sideways on its 3 wheeled base - (2 fixed, 1 swivel) and keeping
in mind the lack of space to make sweeping turns, would the OFT you are describing
work? I'm not against building a different OFT, but it has to work with my space limitations.



All I need to do is grab the 1 x 12 board and let gravity do it's job. The spacer at the
far end of the OFT serves 2 purposes. It makes the OFT dead level with the TS when
the OFT is resting on the workbench and it also prevents the 1 x diagonal board from
sliding out when I go mobile.

At the TS side, the OFT is friction fit between 2 pieces of angle iron and 2 drop-in
bolts act as pins to keep it inside the iron. I've got 2 extra storage holes in the angle
iron upstream of the OFT so I don't ever have to put the pins down. Haven't lost
them yet. ;-)

In a shop as small as mine, you have to do what you have to do. Ask Gunny Highway.

I used to have my shop and equipment ins a 2 car garage along with n
upright freezer, washer and dryer, wife's car, and yard stuff.
It was a puzzle to get everything out and back in.
I am now in a 3 car garage,and thought I was running out of room minus
the washer & dryer, freezer, and yard stuff. And then I added the
jointer and moved a couple of things to a new location. Seems I no
longer have a space issue. Funny how doing a little rearranging really
opens things up.

I've been drawing different layouts for years and haven't come up with anything
that will work. There really is no other place for the TS based on the room to use
it and the fact that I gain a foot of room when it's stored. Everything else, including
the interior and exterior doors basically means that my current layout is really the
best option.

On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 09:17:17 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/17/2021 3:25 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 10:49:22 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

...
I really need to add 4 swiveling wheels. The only thing slowing me down is
that changing the height would mean modifying my outfeed table. I mounted
a channel on the back of the saw that the OFT slips into. The far end rests
on my workbench, perfectly level.

My out feed is mounted solely on the TS so no issues. I can even move
the saw with the out feed up and loaded.

The room my TS is in is rather cramped (TS, BS, DP, upright cabinets,
and cutting table (i.e. track saw) so I have one of these for an
outfeed table:
https://www.kregtool.com/shop/workspace/bench-systems/

I used this on my old Jet cabinet saw and Now on my SawStop. For me It
is perfect. I never have to put it down to move the saw, it is always
on the same plane as the TS top as it is mounted directly to the saw and
takes up little room when folded down.

WOW have those things gone up!!! I paid $250 the first time 22 years
ago and about $300 8 years ago.

https://www.woodcraft.com/products/h...hoCCAQQAvD_BwE

I've seen those. I believe Grizzley was selling the too.



It's on four locking swivel casters so I can move it out of the way
easily. The only problem is the TS's dust collector hose has to go
between its legs, so it is somewhat of a pain to move.

I should add, that it moves out of the way but it's always moving,
too.

On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 09:44:01 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/17/2021 4:34 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
writes:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 11:36:04 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

My father had a craftsman 60+ years ago. It had the cast iron web
extension tables (double). It also had the finger-killer motor,
exposed, hanging off the back. Those were the days that one was
expected to know that table saws were dangerous. Bubble wrap hadn't
been invented yet so mothers hadn't started wrapping kids in it from
birth.

Yeah, everyone should be short a finger or two.

Sure, accidents never happen, so there is no point attempting
to prevent them.



Yeah! When you use all the safety rules and read the safety manual
before every use of the tool Nothing will happen. LOL

Sounds like me when the Saw Stop showed up and I was saying why not and
getting the response, If you are careful and don't do anything stupid
you will not get hurt.

Who among us has never done anything stupid?

Like spend time reading the Usenet?

On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 09:40:30 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/17/2021 4:24 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 11:36:04 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 10:47:28 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 19:04:53 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03 wrote:


This might work for me, but I'd have to add the DC port and lose the bag
that I have under my saw now. Not that that would be a bad thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKILf1o7RTY

Perhaps make the lever on the back side rather than the middle? You'd
be able to keep the bag.

That might work but the torque wouldn't be centered. The slide piece would
be off to the side also and the imbalance might be an issue.

I'll watch the video more carefully and see if that will be a problem. It's worth
a test in any case.


I've also seen these on sale for about half what they want he
https://www.woodcraft.com/products/woodriver-retracting-casters

I bought a few of these for work benches for $25 each, IIRC. I
remember that they were really cheap (or I wouldn't have jumped on
them).

Something like those might help, but I think I'd still have 2 fixed wheels.

The way my TS is stored I only have access to 2 sides, the front
(sort of) and the left side. My lift lever is currently on the left side
which allows me to raise the left side of the TS and pull it straight
out. The first 12" of movement has to be straight because the right
side of the saw (the router table end) literally resides in a hole in
the wall.

That brings up a point that I wanted to make about the Bora bases.
Mine, at least, has the lift levers in the front and a flange that
mounts the wheels higher (axles tend to be at the center of wheels)
than the frame. These make for great trip hazards. This is another
reason to off-center the lift lever in the home-grown design we were
discussing.

So you can easily fix that. Simply swap the right for the left and visa
versa. The putts the lift levers on the ends instead of in front.

Then it rolls sideways. I could deal with that, probably but if
there's anything next to it, not so much. I mounted it backwards so
the levers are at the back. It stands out from the wall 6" more but
such is life.

On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 09:50:47 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/17/2021 4:42 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 11:09:04 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
Snip


BTW, the "mobility kit" for the lathe was $500. Yes, halfa-grand!
It's a little heavy to move. It is a wonder to behold though. A
marvel of over-engineering.

The crappy kit for the bandsaw was $150, IIRC. It works but the rear
wheels and axle are really cheezy for that kind of money.

I have a hoist fixed in one spot so after assembly everything has to
move into its place. I'm alone and not about to lift these things
without some serious mechanical advantage.

My house is built with "engineered" beams so won't take anything
heavier than a light fixture hanging from them. I had to find
somewhere that wires didn't interfere too badly and build a beam
between walls at that spot to support a hoist. That spot is right
behind my saw so everything moves.

BTW, I used the Sagulator to design the beam(s). .25" deflection at
1000lbs, center concentrated, between walls 13' apart.

Did you use the LFAS method? ;~)

LFAS?

wrote in :

On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 09:50:47 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

Did you use the LFAS method? ;~)

LFAS?

Lift, fall and scream?

I sure hope you didn't have to employ THAT LFAS method!

Puckdropper

On 3/18/2021 8:15 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 09:50:47 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/17/2021 4:42 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 11:09:04 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
Snip


BTW, the "mobility kit" for the lathe was $500. Yes, halfa-grand!
It's a little heavy to move. It is a wonder to behold though. A
marvel of over-engineering.

The crappy kit for the bandsaw was $150, IIRC. It works but the rear
wheels and axle are really cheezy for that kind of money.

I have a hoist fixed in one spot so after assembly everything has to
move into its place. I'm alone and not about to lift these things
without some serious mechanical advantage.

My house is built with "engineered" beams so won't take anything
heavier than a light fixture hanging from them. I had to find
somewhere that wires didn't interfere too badly and build a beam
between walls at that spot to support a hoist. That spot is right
behind my saw so everything moves.

BTW, I used the Sagulator to design the beam(s). .25" deflection at
1000lbs, center concentrated, between walls 13' apart.

Did you use the LFAS method? ;~)

LFAS?


A term given, here, when I posted this link several years ago. ;~)

Leon's Fat Ass Sagulator.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...7622991960362/

On 3/18/2021 8:07 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 09:44:01 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/17/2021 4:34 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
writes:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 11:36:04 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

My father had a craftsman 60+ years ago. It had the cast iron web
extension tables (double). It also had the finger-killer motor,
exposed, hanging off the back. Those were the days that one was
expected to know that table saws were dangerous. Bubble wrap hadn't
been invented yet so mothers hadn't started wrapping kids in it from
birth.

Yeah, everyone should be short a finger or two.

Sure, accidents never happen, so there is no point attempting
to prevent them.



Yeah! When you use all the safety rules and read the safety manual
before every use of the tool Nothing will happen. LOL

Sounds like me when the Saw Stop showed up and I was saying why not and
getting the response, If you are careful and don't do anything stupid
you will not get hurt.

Who among us has never done anything stupid?

Like spend time reading the Usenet?

That too! LOL

On 3/18/2021 8:11 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 09:40:30 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/17/2021 4:24 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 11:36:04 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 10:47:28 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 19:04:53 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03 wrote:


This might work for me, but I'd have to add the DC port and lose the bag
that I have under my saw now. Not that that would be a bad thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKILf1o7RTY

Perhaps make the lever on the back side rather than the middle? You'd
be able to keep the bag.

That might work but the torque wouldn't be centered. The slide piece would
be off to the side also and the imbalance might be an issue.

I'll watch the video more carefully and see if that will be a problem. It's worth
a test in any case.


I've also seen these on sale for about half what they want he
https://www.woodcraft.com/products/woodriver-retracting-casters

I bought a few of these for work benches for $25 each, IIRC. I
remember that they were really cheap (or I wouldn't have jumped on
them).

Something like those might help, but I think I'd still have 2 fixed wheels.

The way my TS is stored I only have access to 2 sides, the front
(sort of) and the left side. My lift lever is currently on the left side
which allows me to raise the left side of the TS and pull it straight
out. The first 12" of movement has to be straight because the right
side of the saw (the router table end) literally resides in a hole in
the wall.

That brings up a point that I wanted to make about the Bora bases.
Mine, at least, has the lift levers in the front and a flange that
mounts the wheels higher (axles tend to be at the center of wheels)
than the frame. These make for great trip hazards. This is another
reason to off-center the lift lever in the home-grown design we were
discussing.

So you can easily fix that. Simply swap the right for the left and visa
versa. The putts the lift levers on the ends instead of in front.

Then it rolls sideways. I could deal with that, probably but if
there's anything next to it, not so much. I mounted it backwards so
the levers are at the back. It stands out from the wall 6" more but
such is life.


No, just swap the front, wheels, Leave the rear wheels alone.

On 3/19/2021 10:29 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/18/2021 8:11 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 09:40:30 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/17/2021 4:24 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 11:36:04 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 10:47:28 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 19:04:53 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03 wrote:


This might work for me, but I'd have to add the DC port and lose
the bag
that I have under my saw now. Not that that would be a bad thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKILf1o7RTY

Perhaps make the lever on the back side rather than the middle? You'd
be able to keep the bag.

That might work but the torque wouldn't be centered. The slide
piece would
be off to the side also and the imbalance might be an issue.

I'll watch the video more carefully and see if that will be a
problem. It's worth
a test in any case.


I've also seen these on sale for about half what they want he
https://www.woodcraft.com/products/woodriver-retracting-casters

I bought a few of these for work benches for $25 each, IIRC. I
remember that they were really cheap (or I wouldn't have jumped on
them).

Something like those might help, but I think I'd still have 2 fixed
wheels.

The way my TS is stored I only have access to 2 sides, the front
(sort of) and the left side. My lift lever is currently on the left
side
which allows me to raise the left side of the TS and pull it straight
out. The first 12" of movement has to be straight because the right
side of the saw (the router table end) literally resides in a hole in
the wall.

That brings up a point that I wanted to make about the Bora bases.
Mine, at least, has the lift levers in the front and a flange that
mounts the wheels higher (axles tend to be at the center of wheels)
than the frame. These make for great trip hazards.Â* This is another
reason to off-center the lift lever in the home-grown design we were
discussing.

So you can easily fix that.Â* Simply swap the right for the left and visa
versa.Â* The putts the lift levers on the ends instead of in front.

Then it rolls sideways.Â* I could deal with that, probably but if
there's anything next to it, not so much.Â* I mounted it backwards so
the levers are at the back.Â* It stands out from the wall 6" more but
such is life.


No, just swap the front, wheels, Leave the rear wheels alone.


And or just swap the wheel that swivel and leave the fixed wheels alone.
Swapping the swivel wheels and jack levers will move the lever to the
side and away from the front.

wrote in message ...

On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 22:53:13 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

Yes. But when the end of the board clears the roller it falls and drags
on
the end of the in feed table.... ESPECIALLY on boards less than 8' long.

Eliminating that friction or drag would be temporary with every board
that
is longer than the in feed table.

Yes, it's temporary. However, when you have 12-16' boards in play the last
thing you need is more friction while you've got all that wood hanging out
there!

I'd think a version of infeed/outfeed tables would work better to keep
the ends supported.

The rollers would be an additional aid, not the only aid. I've found that it
takes a combination of things to safely and effectively work with 12'+
boards on a jointer... long beds, adequate jointer weight (or securing it to
the floor), enough room in the shop, infeed/outfeed stands, adequate down
pressure on the outfeed table, reasonably flat stock to begin with (no
excessive crook, bow, twist, etc.), etc. For my next project with long stock
I've have my stock feeder set up and that will take care of many of the
challenges.

Back when I had a 6" jointer I was edge jointing some 16' stock (don't
recall if it was 2x6 or 2x8) and had the jointer standing up on end at one
point... the jointer wasn't big and heavy enough to cope with the leverage
the long boards exerted and I didn't have an outfeed stand set up. That led
me to the DJ-20. That kind of stuff is why I have big stationary tools
now... the smaller stuff was too dangerous for the tasks I asked of them!

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 14:26:36 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

wrote in message ...

On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 22:53:13 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

Yes. But when the end of the board clears the roller it falls and drags
on
the end of the in feed table.... ESPECIALLY on boards less than 8' long.

Eliminating that friction or drag would be temporary with every board
that
is longer than the in feed table.

Yes, it's temporary. However, when you have 12-16' boards in play the last
thing you need is more friction while you've got all that wood hanging out
there!

I'd think a version of infeed/outfeed tables would work better to keep
the ends supported.

The rollers would be an additional aid, not the only aid. I've found that it
takes a combination of things to safely and effectively work with 12'+
boards on a jointer... long beds, adequate jointer weight (or securing it to
the floor), enough room in the shop, infeed/outfeed stands, adequate down
pressure on the outfeed table, reasonably flat stock to begin with (no
excessive crook, bow, twist, etc.), etc. For my next project with long stock
I've have my stock feeder set up and that will take care of many of the
challenges.

I have no problems with rollers but one, only 8" from the table seems
useless to me. A full roller table, or any sort of infeed table would
be good but as you note, take a lot of space. I'm considering the
Laguna rollers. I'd have bought one if 1) I could see them and 1), if
the price hadn't gone up 33%.

Back when I had a 6" jointer I was edge jointing some 16' stock (don't
recall if it was 2x6 or 2x8) and had the jointer standing up on end at one
point... the jointer wasn't big and heavy enough to cope with the leverage
the long boards exerted and I didn't have an outfeed stand set up. That led
me to the DJ-20. That kind of stuff is why I have big stationary tools
now... the smaller stuff was too dangerous for the tasks I asked of them!

For me, it's go big or go home. I'm only going to get one chance to
buy a tool. It has to be what I'll want for the next 20 years (we can
all dream ;-).

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 10:32:11 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/19/2021 10:29 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/18/2021 8:11 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 09:40:30 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/17/2021 4:24 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 11:36:04 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 10:47:28 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 19:04:53 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03 wrote:


This might work for me, but I'd have to add the DC port and lose
the bag
that I have under my saw now. Not that that would be a bad thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKILf1o7RTY

Perhaps make the lever on the back side rather than the middle? You'd
be able to keep the bag.

That might work but the torque wouldn't be centered. The slide
piece would
be off to the side also and the imbalance might be an issue.

I'll watch the video more carefully and see if that will be a
problem. It's worth
a test in any case.


I've also seen these on sale for about half what they want he
https://www.woodcraft.com/products/woodriver-retracting-casters

I bought a few of these for work benches for $25 each, IIRC. I
remember that they were really cheap (or I wouldn't have jumped on
them).

Something like those might help, but I think I'd still have 2 fixed
wheels.

The way my TS is stored I only have access to 2 sides, the front
(sort of) and the left side. My lift lever is currently on the left
side
which allows me to raise the left side of the TS and pull it straight
out. The first 12" of movement has to be straight because the right
side of the saw (the router table end) literally resides in a hole in
the wall.

That brings up a point that I wanted to make about the Bora bases.
Mine, at least, has the lift levers in the front and a flange that
mounts the wheels higher (axles tend to be at the center of wheels)
than the frame. These make for great trip hazards.* This is another
reason to off-center the lift lever in the home-grown design we were
discussing.

So you can easily fix that.* Simply swap the right for the left and visa
versa.* The putts the lift levers on the ends instead of in front.

Then it rolls sideways.* I could deal with that, probably but if
there's anything next to it, not so much.* I mounted it backwards so
the levers are at the back.* It stands out from the wall 6" more but
such is life.


No, just swap the front, wheels, Leave the rear wheels alone.


And or just swap the wheel that swivel and leave the fixed wheels alone.
Swapping the swivel wheels and jack levers will move the lever to the
side and away from the front.

I don't see how that's going to work. I don't understand what's
moving. I'll have to go downstairs and look at them closer but I
think we're talking about very different things.

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 09:12:30 GMT, Puckdropper
wrote:

wrote in :

On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 09:50:47 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

Did you use the LFAS method? ;~)

LFAS?

Lift, fall and scream?

I sure hope you didn't have to employ THAT LFAS method!

No, LGI (Lift, Groan, Ibuprofen)

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 10:26:01 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/18/2021 8:15 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 09:50:47 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/17/2021 4:42 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 11:09:04 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
Snip


BTW, the "mobility kit" for the lathe was $500. Yes, halfa-grand!
It's a little heavy to move. It is a wonder to behold though. A
marvel of over-engineering.

The crappy kit for the bandsaw was $150, IIRC. It works but the rear
wheels and axle are really cheezy for that kind of money.

I have a hoist fixed in one spot so after assembly everything has to
move into its place. I'm alone and not about to lift these things
without some serious mechanical advantage.

My house is built with "engineered" beams so won't take anything
heavier than a light fixture hanging from them. I had to find
somewhere that wires didn't interfere too badly and build a beam
between walls at that spot to support a hoist. That spot is right
behind my saw so everything moves.

BTW, I used the Sagulator to design the beam(s). .25" deflection at
1000lbs, center concentrated, between walls 13' apart.

Did you use the LFAS method? ;~)

LFAS?


A term given, here, when I posted this link several years ago. ;~)

Leon's Fat Ass Sagulator.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...7622991960362/

You sure do like that pose.

On 3/19/2021 10:35 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 10:32:11 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/19/2021 10:29 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/18/2021 8:11 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 09:40:30 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/17/2021 4:24 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 11:36:04 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 10:47:28 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 19:04:53 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03 wrote:


This might work for me, but I'd have to add the DC port and lose
the bag
that I have under my saw now. Not that that would be a bad thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKILf1o7RTY

Perhaps make the lever on the back side rather than the middle? You'd
be able to keep the bag.

That might work but the torque wouldn't be centered. The slide
piece would
be off to the side also and the imbalance might be an issue.

I'll watch the video more carefully and see if that will be a
problem. It's worth
a test in any case.


I've also seen these on sale for about half what they want he
https://www.woodcraft.com/products/woodriver-retracting-casters

I bought a few of these for work benches for $25 each, IIRC. I
remember that they were really cheap (or I wouldn't have jumped on
them).

Something like those might help, but I think I'd still have 2 fixed
wheels.

The way my TS is stored I only have access to 2 sides, the front
(sort of) and the left side. My lift lever is currently on the left
side
which allows me to raise the left side of the TS and pull it straight
out. The first 12" of movement has to be straight because the right
side of the saw (the router table end) literally resides in a hole in
the wall.

That brings up a point that I wanted to make about the Bora bases.
Mine, at least, has the lift levers in the front and a flange that
mounts the wheels higher (axles tend to be at the center of wheels)
than the frame. These make for great trip hazards.Â* This is another
reason to off-center the lift lever in the home-grown design we were
discussing.

So you can easily fix that.Â* Simply swap the right for the left and visa
versa.Â* The putts the lift levers on the ends instead of in front.

Then it rolls sideways.Â* I could deal with that, probably but if
there's anything next to it, not so much.Â* I mounted it backwards so
the levers are at the back.Â* It stands out from the wall 6" more but
such is life.


No, just swap the front, wheels, Leave the rear wheels alone.


And or just swap the wheel that swivel and leave the fixed wheels alone.
Swapping the swivel wheels and jack levers will move the lever to the
side and away from the front.

I don't see how that's going to work. I don't understand what's
moving. I'll have to go downstairs and look at them closer but I
think we're talking about very different things.



If you swap the left and right swivel wheels you have to rotate them 90
degrees, clockwise and counter clockwise, to fit. Then the lift levers
are on the side/end vs. the front.

On 3/19/2021 10:39 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 10:26:01 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/18/2021 8:15 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 09:50:47 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/17/2021 4:42 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 11:09:04 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
Snip


BTW, the "mobility kit" for the lathe was $500. Yes, halfa-grand!
It's a little heavy to move. It is a wonder to behold though. A
marvel of over-engineering.

The crappy kit for the bandsaw was $150, IIRC. It works but the rear
wheels and axle are really cheezy for that kind of money.

I have a hoist fixed in one spot so after assembly everything has to
move into its place. I'm alone and not about to lift these things
without some serious mechanical advantage.

My house is built with "engineered" beams so won't take anything
heavier than a light fixture hanging from them. I had to find
somewhere that wires didn't interfere too badly and build a beam
between walls at that spot to support a hoist. That spot is right
behind my saw so everything moves.

BTW, I used the Sagulator to design the beam(s). .25" deflection at
1000lbs, center concentrated, between walls 13' apart.

Did you use the LFAS method? ;~)

LFAS?


A term given, here, when I posted this link several years ago. ;~)

Leon's Fat Ass Sagulator.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...7622991960362/

You sure do like that pose.


My wife did for sure.. ;~)

On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 16:03:07 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/19/2021 10:35 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 10:32:11 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/19/2021 10:29 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/18/2021 8:11 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 09:40:30 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/17/2021 4:24 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 11:36:04 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 10:47:28 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 19:04:53 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03 wrote:


This might work for me, but I'd have to add the DC port and lose
the bag
that I have under my saw now. Not that that would be a bad thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKILf1o7RTY

Perhaps make the lever on the back side rather than the middle? You'd
be able to keep the bag.

That might work but the torque wouldn't be centered. The slide
piece would
be off to the side also and the imbalance might be an issue.

I'll watch the video more carefully and see if that will be a
problem. It's worth
a test in any case.


I've also seen these on sale for about half what they want he
https://www.woodcraft.com/products/woodriver-retracting-casters

I bought a few of these for work benches for $25 each, IIRC. I
remember that they were really cheap (or I wouldn't have jumped on
them).

Something like those might help, but I think I'd still have 2 fixed
wheels.

The way my TS is stored I only have access to 2 sides, the front
(sort of) and the left side. My lift lever is currently on the left
side
which allows me to raise the left side of the TS and pull it straight
out. The first 12" of movement has to be straight because the right
side of the saw (the router table end) literally resides in a hole in
the wall.

That brings up a point that I wanted to make about the Bora bases.
Mine, at least, has the lift levers in the front and a flange that
mounts the wheels higher (axles tend to be at the center of wheels)
than the frame. These make for great trip hazards.* This is another
reason to off-center the lift lever in the home-grown design we were
discussing.

So you can easily fix that.* Simply swap the right for the left and visa
versa.* The putts the lift levers on the ends instead of in front.

Then it rolls sideways.* I could deal with that, probably but if
there's anything next to it, not so much.* I mounted it backwards so
the levers are at the back.* It stands out from the wall 6" more but
such is life.


No, just swap the front, wheels, Leave the rear wheels alone.


And or just swap the wheel that swivel and leave the fixed wheels alone.
Swapping the swivel wheels and jack levers will move the lever to the
side and away from the front.

I don't see how that's going to work. I don't understand what's
moving. I'll have to go downstairs and look at them closer but I
think we're talking about very different things.



If you swap the left and right swivel wheels you have to rotate them 90
degrees, clockwise and counter clockwise, to fit. Then the lift levers
are on the side/end vs. the front.

I couldn't imagine what you were talking about until I went downstairs
to look more closely at the base. I think it's too late to change my
drill press (it was a PITA as it was). It'll be fairly easy to change
the base on my router table, though it is heavy.

On 3/21/2021 7:02 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 16:03:07 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/19/2021 10:35 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 10:32:11 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/19/2021 10:29 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/18/2021 8:11 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 09:40:30 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/17/2021 4:24 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 11:36:04 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 10:47:28 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 19:04:53 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03 wrote:


This might work for me, but I'd have to add the DC port and lose
the bag
that I have under my saw now. Not that that would be a bad thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKILf1o7RTY

Perhaps make the lever on the back side rather than the middle? You'd
be able to keep the bag.

That might work but the torque wouldn't be centered. The slide
piece would
be off to the side also and the imbalance might be an issue.

I'll watch the video more carefully and see if that will be a
problem. It's worth
a test in any case.


I've also seen these on sale for about half what they want he
https://www.woodcraft.com/products/woodriver-retracting-casters

I bought a few of these for work benches for $25 each, IIRC. I
remember that they were really cheap (or I wouldn't have jumped on
them).

Something like those might help, but I think I'd still have 2 fixed
wheels.

The way my TS is stored I only have access to 2 sides, the front
(sort of) and the left side. My lift lever is currently on the left
side
which allows me to raise the left side of the TS and pull it straight
out. The first 12" of movement has to be straight because the right
side of the saw (the router table end) literally resides in a hole in
the wall.

That brings up a point that I wanted to make about the Bora bases.
Mine, at least, has the lift levers in the front and a flange that
mounts the wheels higher (axles tend to be at the center of wheels)
than the frame. These make for great trip hazards.Â* This is another
reason to off-center the lift lever in the home-grown design we were
discussing.

So you can easily fix that.Â* Simply swap the right for the left and visa
versa.Â* The putts the lift levers on the ends instead of in front.

Then it rolls sideways.Â* I could deal with that, probably but if
there's anything next to it, not so much.Â* I mounted it backwards so
the levers are at the back.Â* It stands out from the wall 6" more but
such is life.


No, just swap the front, wheels, Leave the rear wheels alone.


And or just swap the wheel that swivel and leave the fixed wheels alone.
Swapping the swivel wheels and jack levers will move the lever to the
side and away from the front.

I don't see how that's going to work. I don't understand what's
moving. I'll have to go downstairs and look at them closer but I
think we're talking about very different things.



If you swap the left and right swivel wheels you have to rotate them 90
degrees, clockwise and counter clockwise, to fit. Then the lift levers
are on the side/end vs. the front.

I couldn't imagine what you were talking about until I went downstairs
to look more closely at the base. I think it's too late to change my
drill press (it was a PITA as it was). It'll be fairly easy to change
the base on my router table, though it is heavy.



LOL, I only knew to do this because the instructions indicated how to do
that.

On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 14:42:42 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/21/2021 7:02 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 16:03:07 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/19/2021 10:35 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 10:32:11 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/19/2021 10:29 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/18/2021 8:11 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 09:40:30 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/17/2021 4:24 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 11:36:04 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 10:47:28 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 19:04:53 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03 wrote:


This might work for me, but I'd have to add the DC port and lose
the bag
that I have under my saw now. Not that that would be a bad thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKILf1o7RTY

Perhaps make the lever on the back side rather than the middle? You'd
be able to keep the bag.

That might work but the torque wouldn't be centered. The slide
piece would
be off to the side also and the imbalance might be an issue.

I'll watch the video more carefully and see if that will be a
problem. It's worth
a test in any case.


I've also seen these on sale for about half what they want he
https://www.woodcraft.com/products/woodriver-retracting-casters

I bought a few of these for work benches for $25 each, IIRC. I
remember that they were really cheap (or I wouldn't have jumped on
them).

Something like those might help, but I think I'd still have 2 fixed
wheels.

The way my TS is stored I only have access to 2 sides, the front
(sort of) and the left side. My lift lever is currently on the left
side
which allows me to raise the left side of the TS and pull it straight
out. The first 12" of movement has to be straight because the right
side of the saw (the router table end) literally resides in a hole in
the wall.

That brings up a point that I wanted to make about the Bora bases.
Mine, at least, has the lift levers in the front and a flange that
mounts the wheels higher (axles tend to be at the center of wheels)
than the frame. These make for great trip hazards.* This is another
reason to off-center the lift lever in the home-grown design we were
discussing.

So you can easily fix that.* Simply swap the right for the left and visa
versa.* The putts the lift levers on the ends instead of in front.

Then it rolls sideways.* I could deal with that, probably but if
there's anything next to it, not so much.* I mounted it backwards so
the levers are at the back.* It stands out from the wall 6" more but
such is life.


No, just swap the front, wheels, Leave the rear wheels alone.


And or just swap the wheel that swivel and leave the fixed wheels alone.
Swapping the swivel wheels and jack levers will move the lever to the
side and away from the front.

I don't see how that's going to work. I don't understand what's
moving. I'll have to go downstairs and look at them closer but I
think we're talking about very different things.



If you swap the left and right swivel wheels you have to rotate them 90
degrees, clockwise and counter clockwise, to fit. Then the lift levers
are on the side/end vs. the front.

I couldn't imagine what you were talking about until I went downstairs
to look more closely at the base. I think it's too late to change my
drill press (it was a PITA as it was). It'll be fairly easy to change
the base on my router table, though it is heavy.



LOL, I only knew to do this because the instructions indicated how to do
that.

Instructions? I don't need no steenkin' instructions!

On 3/22/2021 3:42 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 14:42:42 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/21/2021 7:02 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 16:03:07 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/19/2021 10:35 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 10:32:11 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/19/2021 10:29 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/18/2021 8:11 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 09:40:30 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/17/2021 4:24 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 11:36:04 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 10:47:28 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 19:04:53 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03 wrote:


This might work for me, but I'd have to add the DC port and lose
the bag
that I have under my saw now. Not that that would be a bad thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKILf1o7RTY

Perhaps make the lever on the back side rather than the middle? You'd
be able to keep the bag.

That might work but the torque wouldn't be centered. The slide
piece would
be off to the side also and the imbalance might be an issue.

I'll watch the video more carefully and see if that will be a
problem. It's worth
a test in any case.


I've also seen these on sale for about half what they want he
https://www.woodcraft.com/products/woodriver-retracting-casters

I bought a few of these for work benches for $25 each, IIRC. I
remember that they were really cheap (or I wouldn't have jumped on
them).

Something like those might help, but I think I'd still have 2 fixed
wheels.

The way my TS is stored I only have access to 2 sides, the front
(sort of) and the left side. My lift lever is currently on the left
side
which allows me to raise the left side of the TS and pull it straight
out. The first 12" of movement has to be straight because the right
side of the saw (the router table end) literally resides in a hole in
the wall.

That brings up a point that I wanted to make about the Bora bases.
Mine, at least, has the lift levers in the front and a flange that
mounts the wheels higher (axles tend to be at the center of wheels)
than the frame. These make for great trip hazards.Â* This is another
reason to off-center the lift lever in the home-grown design we were
discussing.

So you can easily fix that.Â* Simply swap the right for the left and visa
versa.Â* The putts the lift levers on the ends instead of in front.

Then it rolls sideways.Â* I could deal with that, probably but if
there's anything next to it, not so much.Â* I mounted it backwards so
the levers are at the back.Â* It stands out from the wall 6" more but
such is life.


No, just swap the front, wheels, Leave the rear wheels alone.


And or just swap the wheel that swivel and leave the fixed wheels alone.
Swapping the swivel wheels and jack levers will move the lever to the
side and away from the front.

I don't see how that's going to work. I don't understand what's
moving. I'll have to go downstairs and look at them closer but I
think we're talking about very different things.



If you swap the left and right swivel wheels you have to rotate them 90
degrees, clockwise and counter clockwise, to fit. Then the lift levers
are on the side/end vs. the front.

I couldn't imagine what you were talking about until I went downstairs
to look more closely at the base. I think it's too late to change my
drill press (it was a PITA as it was). It'll be fairly easy to change
the base on my router table, though it is heavy.



LOL, I only knew to do this because the instructions indicated how to do
that.

Instructions? I don't need no steenkin' instructions!



Um Huh! Instructions are for sissies!

wrote in message ...

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 14:26:36 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

Back when I had a 6" jointer I was edge jointing some 16' stock (don't
recall if it was 2x6 or 2x8) and had the jointer standing up on end at one
point... the jointer wasn't big and heavy enough to cope with the leverage
the long boards exerted and I didn't have an outfeed stand set up. That
led
me to the DJ-20. That kind of stuff is why I have big stationary tools
now... the smaller stuff was too dangerous for the tasks I asked of them!

For me, it's go big or go home. I'm only going to get one chance to
buy a tool. It has to be what I'll want for the next 20 years (we can
all dream ;-).

When I bought them, the 6" jointer, contractor's saw, bench top router
table, and lunch box thickness planner seemed like they'd do everything I
needed. The reality is the projects I took on grew in complexity, size and
volume over time. Now it's an 8" jointer, 3 HP cabinet saw, 3 HP shaper,
and floor model planner... Started with an 18" bandsaw and added a 36"...
The only power shop tool I bought in the past decade was a power feeder. I
don't regret the evolution in my skills, projects or equipment.

On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 00:28:03 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

wrote in message ...

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 14:26:36 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

Back when I had a 6" jointer I was edge jointing some 16' stock (don't
recall if it was 2x6 or 2x8) and had the jointer standing up on end at one
point... the jointer wasn't big and heavy enough to cope with the leverage
the long boards exerted and I didn't have an outfeed stand set up. That
led
me to the DJ-20. That kind of stuff is why I have big stationary tools
now... the smaller stuff was too dangerous for the tasks I asked of them!

For me, it's go big or go home. I'm only going to get one chance to
buy a tool. It has to be what I'll want for the next 20 years (we can
all dream ;-).

When I bought them, the 6" jointer, contractor's saw, bench top router
table, and lunch box thickness planner seemed like they'd do everything I
needed. The reality is the projects I took on grew in complexity, size and
volume over time. Now it's an 8" jointer, 3 HP cabinet saw, 3 HP shaper,
and floor model planner... Started with an 18" bandsaw and added a 36"...
The only power shop tool I bought in the past decade was a power feeder. I
don't regret the evolution in my skills, projects or equipment.

Exactly. I've been through lesser tools and have only the one chance
to replace what I don't like and fill in what I don't have. I've been
replacing everything and buying new for a while but stepping up the
game preparing for retirement. A jointer and new DC are the last on
my list, I think. I could be convinced that the DC is good enough but
I'd feel much better about a HEPA DC.

I had a Crapsman RAS that hadn't been used in 20 years (no longer
trusted it), so bought a Unisaur about 10 years ago. I've been very
happy with it. I've only had one bandsaw, an 18" I just bought. I
don't see growing out of that. I also don't see that I need a shaper
but have looked into the idea. Cutters are just too expensive and add
too much to the cost. For a planer I *think* a Dewalt 13" lunchbox
(DC735) and a drum sander will be enough. The CFO will only go so far.

On 3/24/2021 1:32 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 00:28:03 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

wrote in message ...

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 14:26:36 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

Back when I had a 6" jointer I was edge jointing some 16' stock (don't
recall if it was 2x6 or 2x8) and had the jointer standing up on end at one
point... the jointer wasn't big and heavy enough to cope with the leverage
the long boards exerted and I didn't have an outfeed stand set up. That
led
me to the DJ-20. That kind of stuff is why I have big stationary tools
now... the smaller stuff was too dangerous for the tasks I asked of them!

For me, it's go big or go home. I'm only going to get one chance to
buy a tool. It has to be what I'll want for the next 20 years (we can
all dream ;-).

When I bought them, the 6" jointer, contractor's saw, bench top router
table, and lunch box thickness planner seemed like they'd do everything I
needed. The reality is the projects I took on grew in complexity, size and
volume over time. Now it's an 8" jointer, 3 HP cabinet saw, 3 HP shaper,
and floor model planner... Started with an 18" bandsaw and added a 36"...
The only power shop tool I bought in the past decade was a power feeder. I
don't regret the evolution in my skills, projects or equipment.

Exactly. I've been through lesser tools and have only the one chance
to replace what I don't like and fill in what I don't have. I've been
replacing everything and buying new for a while but stepping up the
game preparing for retirement. A jointer and new DC are the last on
my list, I think. I could be convinced that the DC is good enough but
I'd feel much better about a HEPA DC.

Have you seen this?

https://www.oneida-air.com/dust-coll...collector-230v




I had a Crapsman RAS that hadn't been used in 20 years (no longer
trusted it), so bought a Unisaur about 10 years ago. I've been very
happy with it. I've only had one bandsaw, an 18" I just bought. I
don't see growing out of that. I also don't see that I need a shaper
but have looked into the idea. Cutters are just too expensive and add
too much to the cost. For a planer I *think* a Dewalt 13" lunchbox
(DC735) and a drum sander will be enough. The CFO will only go so far.

On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 16:49:33 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2021 1:32 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 00:28:03 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

wrote in message ...

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 14:26:36 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

Back when I had a 6" jointer I was edge jointing some 16' stock (don't
recall if it was 2x6 or 2x8) and had the jointer standing up on end at one
point... the jointer wasn't big and heavy enough to cope with the leverage
the long boards exerted and I didn't have an outfeed stand set up. That
led
me to the DJ-20. That kind of stuff is why I have big stationary tools
now... the smaller stuff was too dangerous for the tasks I asked of them!

For me, it's go big or go home. I'm only going to get one chance to
buy a tool. It has to be what I'll want for the next 20 years (we can
all dream ;-).

When I bought them, the 6" jointer, contractor's saw, bench top router
table, and lunch box thickness planner seemed like they'd do everything I
needed. The reality is the projects I took on grew in complexity, size and
volume over time. Now it's an 8" jointer, 3 HP cabinet saw, 3 HP shaper,
and floor model planner... Started with an 18" bandsaw and added a 36"...
The only power shop tool I bought in the past decade was a power feeder. I
don't regret the evolution in my skills, projects or equipment.

Exactly. I've been through lesser tools and have only the one chance
to replace what I don't like and fill in what I don't have. I've been
replacing everything and buying new for a while but stepping up the
game preparing for retirement. A jointer and new DC are the last on
my list, I think. I could be convinced that the DC is good enough but
I'd feel much better about a HEPA DC.

Have you seen this?

https://www.oneida-air.com/dust-coll...collector-230v

Oneida has good stuff but there's no free lunch. Volume, pressure
difference, HP, pick two.

These are pretty odd and know nothing about them,
https://www.harveywoodworking.com/collections/gyro-airs


I had a Crapsman RAS that hadn't been used in 20 years (no longer
trusted it), so bought a Unisaur about 10 years ago. I've been very
happy with it. I've only had one bandsaw, an 18" I just bought. I
don't see growing out of that. I also don't see that I need a shaper
but have looked into the idea. Cutters are just too expensive and add
too much to the cost. For a planer I *think* a Dewalt 13" lunchbox
(DC735) and a drum sander will be enough. The CFO will only go so far.

On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 21:00:19 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 16:49:33 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2021 1:32 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 00:28:03 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

wrote in message ...

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 14:26:36 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

Back when I had a 6" jointer I was edge jointing some 16' stock (don't
recall if it was 2x6 or 2x8) and had the jointer standing up on end at one
point... the jointer wasn't big and heavy enough to cope with the leverage
the long boards exerted and I didn't have an outfeed stand set up. That
led
me to the DJ-20. That kind of stuff is why I have big stationary tools
now... the smaller stuff was too dangerous for the tasks I asked of them!

For me, it's go big or go home. I'm only going to get one chance to
buy a tool. It has to be what I'll want for the next 20 years (we can
all dream ;-).

When I bought them, the 6" jointer, contractor's saw, bench top router
table, and lunch box thickness planner seemed like they'd do everything I
needed. The reality is the projects I took on grew in complexity, size and
volume over time. Now it's an 8" jointer, 3 HP cabinet saw, 3 HP shaper,
and floor model planner... Started with an 18" bandsaw and added a 36"...
The only power shop tool I bought in the past decade was a power feeder. I
don't regret the evolution in my skills, projects or equipment.

Exactly. I've been through lesser tools and have only the one chance
to replace what I don't like and fill in what I don't have. I've been
replacing everything and buying new for a while but stepping up the
game preparing for retirement. A jointer and new DC are the last on
my list, I think. I could be convinced that the DC is good enough but
I'd feel much better about a HEPA DC.

Have you seen this?

https://www.oneida-air.com/dust-coll...collector-230v

Oneida has good stuff but there's no free lunch. Volume, pressure
difference, HP, pick two.

I just noticed, it is a 5HP DC. Wiring may be a problem. ;-)

These are pretty odd and know nothing about them,
https://www.harveywoodworking.com/collections/gyro-airs


I had a Crapsman RAS that hadn't been used in 20 years (no longer
trusted it), so bought a Unisaur about 10 years ago. I've been very
happy with it. I've only had one bandsaw, an 18" I just bought. I
don't see growing out of that. I also don't see that I need a shaper
but have looked into the idea. Cutters are just too expensive and add
too much to the cost. For a planer I *think* a Dewalt 13" lunchbox
(DC735) and a drum sander will be enough. The CFO will only go so far.

wrote in message ...

On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 00:28:03 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:


When I bought them, the 6" jointer, contractor's saw, bench top router
table, and lunch box thickness planner seemed like they'd do everything I
needed. The reality is the projects I took on grew in complexity, size and
volume over time. Now it's an 8" jointer, 3 HP cabinet saw, 3 HP shaper,
and floor model planner... Started with an 18" bandsaw and added a 36"...
The only power shop tool I bought in the past decade was a power feeder.
I
don't regret the evolution in my skills, projects or equipment.

Exactly. I've been through lesser tools and have only the one chance
to replace what I don't like and fill in what I don't have. I've been
replacing everything and buying new for a while but stepping up the
game preparing for retirement. A jointer and new DC are the last on
my list, I think. I could be convinced that the DC is good enough but
I'd feel much better about a HEPA DC.

I had a Crapsman RAS that hadn't been used in 20 years (no longer
trusted it), so bought a Unisaur about 10 years ago. I've been very
happy with it. I've only had one bandsaw, an 18" I just bought. I
don't see growing out of that. I also don't see that I need a shaper
but have looked into the idea. Cutters are just too expensive and add
too much to the cost. For a planer I *think* a Dewalt 13" lunchbox
(DC735) and a drum sander will be enough. The CFO will only go so far.

I kept an eye out for good deals on stationary tools and when I saw one I
bought it... I always made sure I had cash available to jump on deals at a
moments notice. For example, when Woodworkers Warehouse folded I picked up
a Jet 3 HP cabinet saw with a 50" XActa fence, mobile base and out feed
table for about $950 including tax. That was about half of what they were
going for at the time. I grabbed a bigger dust collector too. My new out
of pocket for that stuff was a few hundred dollars after I sold my Jet
contractors saw and old dust collector. I grabbed a couple sets of cope and
stick, and other shaper cutters for pennies on the dollar also.

I found the 3 HP shaper on Craigslist. A guy bought it to make picture
frames as a compliment to his wife's photography business. There was a whole
bunch of tooling included also. He set it up, played with it a little and
never used it. I had a 1 1/2 HP Jet floor model shaper that I sold for as
much as I paid for the 3 HP shaper. My out of pocket for that was gas and
time. Like with the jointer I found I was trying to work with stock and
cutters that were really too big for the small table on the 1 1/2 HP shaper.
It's a tool that when I need it I need it... I suspect it's something most
guys would ever need.

My shop was all but completely outfitted about 15 years before I retired.
What I saw in my woodworkers club was guys retiring and then trying to build
a shop, buy all the tools, and buy wood. Guess what... it was basically too
late for many of them. They didn't have the discretionary income or the
skills to do much of anything. After seeing that happen numerous times I
decided to just do it!

On 3/24/2021 8:57 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 21:00:19 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 16:49:33 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2021 1:32 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 00:28:03 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

wrote in message ...

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 14:26:36 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

Back when I had a 6" jointer I was edge jointing some 16' stock (don't
recall if it was 2x6 or 2x8) and had the jointer standing up on end at one
point... the jointer wasn't big and heavy enough to cope with the leverage
the long boards exerted and I didn't have an outfeed stand set up. That
led
me to the DJ-20. That kind of stuff is why I have big stationary tools
now... the smaller stuff was too dangerous for the tasks I asked of them!

For me, it's go big or go home. I'm only going to get one chance to
buy a tool. It has to be what I'll want for the next 20 years (we can
all dream ;-).

When I bought them, the 6" jointer, contractor's saw, bench top router
table, and lunch box thickness planner seemed like they'd do everything I
needed. The reality is the projects I took on grew in complexity, size and
volume over time. Now it's an 8" jointer, 3 HP cabinet saw, 3 HP shaper,
and floor model planner... Started with an 18" bandsaw and added a 36"...
The only power shop tool I bought in the past decade was a power feeder. I
don't regret the evolution in my skills, projects or equipment.

Exactly. I've been through lesser tools and have only the one chance
to replace what I don't like and fill in what I don't have. I've been
replacing everything and buying new for a while but stepping up the
game preparing for retirement. A jointer and new DC are the last on
my list, I think. I could be convinced that the DC is good enough but
I'd feel much better about a HEPA DC.

Have you seen this?

https://www.oneida-air.com/dust-coll...collector-230v

Oneida has good stuff but there's no free lunch. Volume, pressure
difference, HP, pick two.

I just noticed, it is a 5HP DC. Wiring may be a problem. ;-)

Yeah, 240 volts. Seems odd that they use 3 small HP motors to develop 5
hp and require 240 volt on top of that.
And I don't quite understand. Many cyclone DC's separate the fine dust
from the larger dust. This does not seem to be the case with this unit.

BTW Woodcraft/Jet is having a 10% sale now and free shipping. March
25-30. Might be a local thing since Woodcraft sent the sale to me via
e-mail.




These are pretty odd and know nothing about them,
https://www.harveywoodworking.com/collections/gyro-airs

This DC has been out for a few years. One of the old timer YouTube'rs
got one and raved about it. But in the last year or two his video's
have shown a lot of dust on the floor. Not sure if he still has it or
just needed the space back. That thing is huge. And 240 volt. Stumpy
Nubbs, another YouTuber that seems to know what he is talking about
praises Harvey products in particular their band saws. But he is
probably on commission too.






I had a Crapsman RAS that hadn't been used in 20 years (no longer
trusted it), so bought a Unisaur about 10 years ago. I've been very
happy with it. I've only had one bandsaw, an 18" I just bought. I
don't see growing out of that. I also don't see that I need a shaper
but have looked into the idea. Cutters are just too expensive and add
too much to the cost. For a planer I *think* a Dewalt 13" lunchbox
(DC735) and a drum sander will be enough. The CFO will only go so far.

On 3/25/2021 9:02 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/24/2021 8:57 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 21:00:19 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 16:49:33 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2021 1:32 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 00:28:03 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

wrote in message ...

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 14:26:36 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

Back when I had a 6" jointer I was edge jointing some 16' stock
(don't
recall if it was 2x6 or 2x8) and had the jointer standing up on
end at one
point... the jointer wasn't big and heavy enough to cope with
the leverage
the long boards exerted and I didn't have an outfeed stand set
up. That
led
me to the DJ-20. That kind of stuff is why I have big stationary
tools
now... the smaller stuff was too dangerous for the tasks I asked
of them!

For me, it's go big or go home.Â* I'm only going to get one chance to
buy a tool.Â* It has to be what I'll want for the next 20 years
(we can
all dream ;-).

When I bought them, the 6" jointer, contractor's saw, bench top
router
table, and lunch box thickness planner seemed like they'd do
everything I
needed. The reality is the projects I took on grew in complexity,
size and
volume over time.Â* Now it's an 8" jointer, 3 HP cabinet saw, 3 HP
shaper,
and floor model planner... Started with an 18" bandsaw and added a
36"...
The only power shop tool I bought in the past decade was a power
feeder.Â* I
don't regret the evolution in my skills, projects or equipment.

Exactly.Â* I've been through lesser tools and have only the one chance
to replace what I don't like and fill in what I don't have. I've been
replacing everything and buying new for a while but stepping up the
game preparing for retirement.Â* A jointer and new DC are the last on
my list, I think.Â* I could be convinced that the DC is good enough but
I'd feel much better about a HEPA DC.

Have you seen this?

https://www.oneida-air.com/dust-coll...collector-230v


Oneida has good stuff but there's no free lunch.Â* Volume, pressure
difference, HP, pick two.

I just noticed, it is a 5HP DC.Â* Wiring may be a problem.Â* ;-)

Yeah, 240 volts.Â* Seems odd that they use 3 small HP motors to develop 5
hp and require 240 volt on top of that.
And I don't quite understand.Â* Many cyclone DC's separate the fine dust
from the larger dust.Â* This does not seem to be the case with this unit.

BTW Woodcraft/Jet is having a 10% sale now and free shipping.Â* March
25-30.Â* Might be a local thing since Woodcraft sent the sale to me via
e-mail.




These are pretty odd and know nothing about them,
https://www.harveywoodworking.com/collections/gyro-airs

This DC has been out for a few years.Â* One of the old timer YouTube'rs
got one and raved about it.Â* But in the last year or two his video's
have shown a lot of dust on the floor.Â* Not sure if he still has it or
just needed the space back.Â* That thing is huge.Â* And 240 volt.Â* Stumpy
Nubbs, another YouTuber that seems to know what he is talking about
praises Harvey products in particular their band saws.Â* But he is
probably on commission too.






I had a Crapsman RAS that hadn't been used in 20 years (no longer
trusted it), so bought a Unisaur about 10 years ago. I've been very
happy with it. I've only had one bandsaw, an 18" I just bought.Â* I
don't see growing out of that. I also don't see that I need a shaper
but have looked into the idea.Â* Cutters are just too expensive and add
too much to the cost. For a planer I *think* a Dewalt 13" lunchbox
(DC735) and a drum sander will be enough. The CFO will only go so far.




Next level carpentry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4PKD-9y_bY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AXR0CrDc4w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHv-yO-kiTQ&t=654s

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 09:02:21 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2021 8:57 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 21:00:19 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 16:49:33 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2021 1:32 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 00:28:03 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

wrote in message ...

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 14:26:36 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

Back when I had a 6" jointer I was edge jointing some 16' stock (don't
recall if it was 2x6 or 2x8) and had the jointer standing up on end at one
point... the jointer wasn't big and heavy enough to cope with the leverage
the long boards exerted and I didn't have an outfeed stand set up. That
led
me to the DJ-20. That kind of stuff is why I have big stationary tools
now... the smaller stuff was too dangerous for the tasks I asked of them!

For me, it's go big or go home. I'm only going to get one chance to
buy a tool. It has to be what I'll want for the next 20 years (we can
all dream ;-).

When I bought them, the 6" jointer, contractor's saw, bench top router
table, and lunch box thickness planner seemed like they'd do everything I
needed. The reality is the projects I took on grew in complexity, size and
volume over time. Now it's an 8" jointer, 3 HP cabinet saw, 3 HP shaper,
and floor model planner... Started with an 18" bandsaw and added a 36"...
The only power shop tool I bought in the past decade was a power feeder. I
don't regret the evolution in my skills, projects or equipment.

Exactly. I've been through lesser tools and have only the one chance
to replace what I don't like and fill in what I don't have. I've been
replacing everything and buying new for a while but stepping up the
game preparing for retirement. A jointer and new DC are the last on
my list, I think. I could be convinced that the DC is good enough but
I'd feel much better about a HEPA DC.

Have you seen this?

https://www.oneida-air.com/dust-coll...collector-230v

Oneida has good stuff but there's no free lunch. Volume, pressure
difference, HP, pick two.

I just noticed, it is a 5HP DC. Wiring may be a problem. ;-)

Yeah, 240 volts. Seems odd that they use 3 small HP motors to develop 5
hp and require 240 volt on top of that.
And I don't quite understand. Many cyclone DC's separate the fine dust
from the larger dust. This does not seem to be the case with this unit.

240V isn't a problem. More than 20A is. I already have a 240V 20A
circuit dedicated to the DC (and another for everything else).

BTW Woodcraft/Jet is having a 10% sale now and free shipping. March
25-30. Might be a local thing since Woodcraft sent the sale to me via
e-mail.

Jet is on sale more than not (likewise Powermatic). I picked up
another Jet air cleaner for $299 (25% off) last weekend.

I think I prefer the Laguna DCs. I'm getting more interested in
exotics so am getting a little more paranoid about breathing dust so
I'd rather have a HEPA DC. The Jets are 1u and not a lot cheaper than
the Laguna 1u collectors.

The 8" helical jointer "Ships August 6, 2021". I have some time to
decide about that one, sale or not. ;-) The DC is the last on the
list of toys.





These are pretty odd and know nothing about them,
https://www.harveywoodworking.com/collections/gyro-airs

This DC has been out for a few years. One of the old timer YouTube'rs
got one and raved about it. But in the last year or two his video's
have shown a lot of dust on the floor. Not sure if he still has it or
just needed the space back. That thing is huge. And 240 volt. Stumpy
Nubbs, another YouTuber that seems to know what he is talking about
praises Harvey products in particular their band saws. But he is
probably on commission too.

Stumpy Nubbs is one of the better Youtubers but I always wonder about
motivations.

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 09:06:03 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/25/2021 9:02 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/24/2021 8:57 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 21:00:19 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 16:49:33 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2021 1:32 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 00:28:03 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

wrote in message ...

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 14:26:36 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

Back when I had a 6" jointer I was edge jointing some 16' stock
(don't
recall if it was 2x6 or 2x8) and had the jointer standing up on
end at one
point... the jointer wasn't big and heavy enough to cope with
the leverage
the long boards exerted and I didn't have an outfeed stand set
up. That
led
me to the DJ-20. That kind of stuff is why I have big stationary
tools
now... the smaller stuff was too dangerous for the tasks I asked
of them!

For me, it's go big or go home.* I'm only going to get one chance to
buy a tool.* It has to be what I'll want for the next 20 years
(we can
all dream ;-).

When I bought them, the 6" jointer, contractor's saw, bench top
router
table, and lunch box thickness planner seemed like they'd do
everything I
needed. The reality is the projects I took on grew in complexity,
size and
volume over time.* Now it's an 8" jointer, 3 HP cabinet saw, 3 HP
shaper,
and floor model planner... Started with an 18" bandsaw and added a
36"...
The only power shop tool I bought in the past decade was a power
feeder.* I
don't regret the evolution in my skills, projects or equipment.

Exactly.* I've been through lesser tools and have only the one chance
to replace what I don't like and fill in what I don't have. I've been
replacing everything and buying new for a while but stepping up the
game preparing for retirement.* A jointer and new DC are the last on
my list, I think.* I could be convinced that the DC is good enough but
I'd feel much better about a HEPA DC.

Have you seen this?

https://www.oneida-air.com/dust-coll...collector-230v


Oneida has good stuff but there's no free lunch.* Volume, pressure
difference, HP, pick two.

I just noticed, it is a 5HP DC.* Wiring may be a problem.* ;-)

Yeah, 240 volts.* Seems odd that they use 3 small HP motors to develop 5
hp and require 240 volt on top of that.
And I don't quite understand.* Many cyclone DC's separate the fine dust
from the larger dust.* This does not seem to be the case with this unit.

BTW Woodcraft/Jet is having a 10% sale now and free shipping.* March
25-30.* Might be a local thing since Woodcraft sent the sale to me via
e-mail.




These are pretty odd and know nothing about them,
https://www.harveywoodworking.com/collections/gyro-airs

This DC has been out for a few years.* One of the old timer YouTube'rs
got one and raved about it.* But in the last year or two his video's
have shown a lot of dust on the floor.* Not sure if he still has it or
just needed the space back.* That thing is huge.* And 240 volt.* Stumpy
Nubbs, another YouTuber that seems to know what he is talking about
praises Harvey products in particular their band saws.* But he is
probably on commission too.






I had a Crapsman RAS that hadn't been used in 20 years (no longer
trusted it), so bought a Unisaur about 10 years ago. I've been very
happy with it. I've only had one bandsaw, an 18" I just bought.* I
don't see growing out of that. I also don't see that I need a shaper
but have looked into the idea.* Cutters are just too expensive and add
too much to the cost. For a planer I *think* a Dewalt 13" lunchbox
(DC735) and a drum sander will be enough. The CFO will only go so far.




Next level carpentry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4PKD-9y_bY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AXR0CrDc4w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHv-yO-kiTQ&t=654s

I didn't realize just how big the thing is. It's out of my range but
it did tweak my interest. Thanks.

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 02:00:34 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

wrote in message ...

On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 00:28:03 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:


When I bought them, the 6" jointer, contractor's saw, bench top router
table, and lunch box thickness planner seemed like they'd do everything I
needed. The reality is the projects I took on grew in complexity, size and
volume over time. Now it's an 8" jointer, 3 HP cabinet saw, 3 HP shaper,
and floor model planner... Started with an 18" bandsaw and added a 36"...
The only power shop tool I bought in the past decade was a power feeder.
I
don't regret the evolution in my skills, projects or equipment.

Exactly. I've been through lesser tools and have only the one chance
to replace what I don't like and fill in what I don't have. I've been
replacing everything and buying new for a while but stepping up the
game preparing for retirement. A jointer and new DC are the last on
my list, I think. I could be convinced that the DC is good enough but
I'd feel much better about a HEPA DC.

I had a Crapsman RAS that hadn't been used in 20 years (no longer
trusted it), so bought a Unisaur about 10 years ago. I've been very
happy with it. I've only had one bandsaw, an 18" I just bought. I
don't see growing out of that. I also don't see that I need a shaper
but have looked into the idea. Cutters are just too expensive and add
too much to the cost. For a planer I *think* a Dewalt 13" lunchbox
(DC735) and a drum sander will be enough. The CFO will only go so far.

I kept an eye out for good deals on stationary tools and when I saw one I
bought it... I always made sure I had cash available to jump on deals at a
moments notice. For example, when Woodworkers Warehouse folded I picked up
a Jet 3 HP cabinet saw with a 50" XActa fence, mobile base and out feed
table for about $950 including tax. That was about half of what they were
going for at the time. I grabbed a bigger dust collector too. My new out
of pocket for that stuff was a few hundred dollars after I sold my Jet
contractors saw and old dust collector. I grabbed a couple sets of cope and
stick, and other shaper cutters for pennies on the dollar also.

I found the 3 HP shaper on Craigslist. A guy bought it to make picture
frames as a compliment to his wife's photography business. There was a whole
bunch of tooling included also. He set it up, played with it a little and
never used it. I had a 1 1/2 HP Jet floor model shaper that I sold for as
much as I paid for the 3 HP shaper. My out of pocket for that was gas and
time. Like with the jointer I found I was trying to work with stock and
cutters that were really too big for the small table on the 1 1/2 HP shaper.
It's a tool that when I need it I need it... I suspect it's something most
guys would ever need.

My shop was all but completely outfitted about 15 years before I retired.
What I saw in my woodworkers club was guys retiring and then trying to build
a shop, buy all the tools, and buy wood. Guess what... it was basically too
late for many of them. They didn't have the discretionary income or the
skills to do much of anything. After seeing that happen numerous times I
decided to just do it!

Exactly. Right now I have plenty of money and no time. Shortly, I'll
have plenty of time and no money. ;-) The problem is that SWMBO will
have an infinite honeydo list.

I was going to retire a year ago but SWMBO had other ideas. That
timer ran out in October so I can leave at any time. Work is
interesting now so told the boss I'd finish the project I'm working
on. It's easy work. Covid has everyone working from home and he's in
Detroit anyway. We're on a phone call twice a week. I can deal with
such micro-management. ;-)

I think these are the last stationary tools that I'll need. I didn't
think I needed a jointer but looking at the lumber I've seen around, I
think it's going to be a must. The last, and not completely
necessary, stationary tools will be the DC.

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 20:38:01 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 09:02:21 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2021 8:57 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 21:00:19 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 16:49:33 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2021 1:32 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 00:28:03 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

wrote in message ...

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 14:26:36 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

Back when I had a 6" jointer I was edge jointing some 16' stock (don't
recall if it was 2x6 or 2x8) and had the jointer standing up on end at one
point... the jointer wasn't big and heavy enough to cope with the leverage
the long boards exerted and I didn't have an outfeed stand set up. That
led
me to the DJ-20. That kind of stuff is why I have big stationary tools
now... the smaller stuff was too dangerous for the tasks I asked of them!

For me, it's go big or go home. I'm only going to get one chance to
buy a tool. It has to be what I'll want for the next 20 years (we can
all dream ;-).

When I bought them, the 6" jointer, contractor's saw, bench top router
table, and lunch box thickness planner seemed like they'd do everything I
needed. The reality is the projects I took on grew in complexity, size and
volume over time. Now it's an 8" jointer, 3 HP cabinet saw, 3 HP shaper,
and floor model planner... Started with an 18" bandsaw and added a 36"...
The only power shop tool I bought in the past decade was a power feeder. I
don't regret the evolution in my skills, projects or equipment.

Exactly. I've been through lesser tools and have only the one chance
to replace what I don't like and fill in what I don't have. I've been
replacing everything and buying new for a while but stepping up the
game preparing for retirement. A jointer and new DC are the last on
my list, I think. I could be convinced that the DC is good enough but
I'd feel much better about a HEPA DC.

Have you seen this?

https://www.oneida-air.com/dust-coll...collector-230v

Oneida has good stuff but there's no free lunch. Volume, pressure
difference, HP, pick two.

I just noticed, it is a 5HP DC. Wiring may be a problem. ;-)

Yeah, 240 volts. Seems odd that they use 3 small HP motors to develop 5
hp and require 240 volt on top of that.
And I don't quite understand. Many cyclone DC's separate the fine dust
from the larger dust. This does not seem to be the case with this unit.

240V isn't a problem. More than 20A is. I already have a 240V 20A
circuit dedicated to the DC (and another for everything else).

BTW Woodcraft/Jet is having a 10% sale now and free shipping. March
25-30. Might be a local thing since Woodcraft sent the sale to me via
e-mail.

Jet is on sale more than not (likewise Powermatic). I picked up
another Jet air cleaner for $299 (25% off) last weekend.

I think I prefer the Laguna DCs. I'm getting more interested in
exotics so am getting a little more paranoid about breathing dust so
I'd rather have a HEPA DC. The Jets are 1u and not a lot cheaper than
the Laguna 1u collectors.

The 8" helical jointer "Ships August 6, 2021". I have some time to
decide about that one, sale or not. ;-) The DC is the last on the
list of toys.

Today's Woodcraft spam says "Ships on October 13, 2021". The Jet
looked really good but it's now off the list.

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 09:06:03 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/25/2021 9:02 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/24/2021 8:57 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 21:00:19 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 16:49:33 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2021 1:32 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 00:28:03 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

wrote in message ...

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 14:26:36 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

Back when I had a 6" jointer I was edge jointing some 16' stock
(don't
recall if it was 2x6 or 2x8) and had the jointer standing up on
end at one
point... the jointer wasn't big and heavy enough to cope with
the leverage
the long boards exerted and I didn't have an outfeed stand set
up. That
led
me to the DJ-20. That kind of stuff is why I have big stationary
tools
now... the smaller stuff was too dangerous for the tasks I asked
of them!

For me, it's go big or go home.* I'm only going to get one chance to
buy a tool.* It has to be what I'll want for the next 20 years
(we can
all dream ;-).

When I bought them, the 6" jointer, contractor's saw, bench top
router
table, and lunch box thickness planner seemed like they'd do
everything I
needed. The reality is the projects I took on grew in complexity,
size and
volume over time.* Now it's an 8" jointer, 3 HP cabinet saw, 3 HP
shaper,
and floor model planner... Started with an 18" bandsaw and added a
36"...
The only power shop tool I bought in the past decade was a power
feeder.* I
don't regret the evolution in my skills, projects or equipment.

Exactly.* I've been through lesser tools and have only the one chance
to replace what I don't like and fill in what I don't have. I've been
replacing everything and buying new for a while but stepping up the
game preparing for retirement.* A jointer and new DC are the last on
my list, I think.* I could be convinced that the DC is good enough but
I'd feel much better about a HEPA DC.

Have you seen this?

https://www.oneida-air.com/dust-coll...collector-230v


Oneida has good stuff but there's no free lunch.* Volume, pressure
difference, HP, pick two.

I just noticed, it is a 5HP DC.* Wiring may be a problem.* ;-)

Yeah, 240 volts.* Seems odd that they use 3 small HP motors to develop 5
hp and require 240 volt on top of that.
And I don't quite understand.* Many cyclone DC's separate the fine dust
from the larger dust.* This does not seem to be the case with this unit.

BTW Woodcraft/Jet is having a 10% sale now and free shipping.* March
25-30.* Might be a local thing since Woodcraft sent the sale to me via
e-mail.




These are pretty odd and know nothing about them,
https://www.harveywoodworking.com/collections/gyro-airs

This DC has been out for a few years.* One of the old timer YouTube'rs
got one and raved about it.* But in the last year or two his video's
have shown a lot of dust on the floor.* Not sure if he still has it or
just needed the space back.* That thing is huge.* And 240 volt.* Stumpy
Nubbs, another YouTuber that seems to know what he is talking about
praises Harvey products in particular their band saws.* But he is
probably on commission too.






I had a Crapsman RAS that hadn't been used in 20 years (no longer
trusted it), so bought a Unisaur about 10 years ago. I've been very
happy with it. I've only had one bandsaw, an 18" I just bought.* I
don't see growing out of that. I also don't see that I need a shaper
but have looked into the idea.* Cutters are just too expensive and add
too much to the cost. For a planer I *think* a Dewalt 13" lunchbox
(DC735) and a drum sander will be enough. The CFO will only go so far.




Next level carpentry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4PKD-9y_bY

He's as bad as I am. It took 3/4 of the video to get the thing on the
floor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AXR0CrDc4w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHv-yO-kiTQ&t=654s

On 3/27/2021 11:46 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 09:06:03 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/25/2021 9:02 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/24/2021 8:57 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 21:00:19 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 16:49:33 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/24/2021 1:32 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 00:28:03 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

wrote in message ...

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 14:26:36 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

Back when I had a 6" jointer I was edge jointing some 16' stock
(don't
recall if it was 2x6 or 2x8) and had the jointer standing up on
end at one
point... the jointer wasn't big and heavy enough to cope with
the leverage
the long boards exerted and I didn't have an outfeed stand set
up. That
led
me to the DJ-20. That kind of stuff is why I have big stationary
tools
now... the smaller stuff was too dangerous for the tasks I asked
of them!

For me, it's go big or go home.Â* I'm only going to get one chance to
buy a tool.Â* It has to be what I'll want for the next 20 years
(we can
all dream ;-).

When I bought them, the 6" jointer, contractor's saw, bench top
router
table, and lunch box thickness planner seemed like they'd do
everything I
needed. The reality is the projects I took on grew in complexity,
size and
volume over time.Â* Now it's an 8" jointer, 3 HP cabinet saw, 3 HP
shaper,
and floor model planner... Started with an 18" bandsaw and added a
36"...
The only power shop tool I bought in the past decade was a power
feeder.Â* I
don't regret the evolution in my skills, projects or equipment.

Exactly.Â* I've been through lesser tools and have only the one chance
to replace what I don't like and fill in what I don't have. I've been
replacing everything and buying new for a while but stepping up the
game preparing for retirement.Â* A jointer and new DC are the last on
my list, I think.Â* I could be convinced that the DC is good enough but
I'd feel much better about a HEPA DC.

Have you seen this?

https://www.oneida-air.com/dust-coll...collector-230v


Oneida has good stuff but there's no free lunch.Â* Volume, pressure
difference, HP, pick two.

I just noticed, it is a 5HP DC.Â* Wiring may be a problem.Â* ;-)

Yeah, 240 volts.Â* Seems odd that they use 3 small HP motors to develop 5
hp and require 240 volt on top of that.
And I don't quite understand.Â* Many cyclone DC's separate the fine dust
from the larger dust.Â* This does not seem to be the case with this unit.

BTW Woodcraft/Jet is having a 10% sale now and free shipping.Â* March
25-30.Â* Might be a local thing since Woodcraft sent the sale to me via
e-mail.




These are pretty odd and know nothing about them,
https://www.harveywoodworking.com/collections/gyro-airs

This DC has been out for a few years.Â* One of the old timer YouTube'rs
got one and raved about it.Â* But in the last year or two his video's
have shown a lot of dust on the floor.Â* Not sure if he still has it or
just needed the space back.Â* That thing is huge.Â* And 240 volt.Â* Stumpy
Nubbs, another YouTuber that seems to know what he is talking about
praises Harvey products in particular their band saws.Â* But he is
probably on commission too.






I had a Crapsman RAS that hadn't been used in 20 years (no longer
trusted it), so bought a Unisaur about 10 years ago. I've been very
happy with it. I've only had one bandsaw, an 18" I just bought.Â* I
don't see growing out of that. I also don't see that I need a shaper
but have looked into the idea.Â* Cutters are just too expensive and add
too much to the cost. For a planer I *think* a Dewalt 13" lunchbox
(DC735) and a drum sander will be enough. The CFO will only go so far.




Next level carpentry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4PKD-9y_bY

He's as bad as I am. It took 3/4 of the video to get the thing on the
floor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AXR0CrDc4w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHv-yO-kiTQ&t=654s


I'm not quite sure why people video stuff like that, moving it into place.
Ron Paulk has made some great work benches and he has a pretty good
video production but jeez he over states every move he makes for the
simplest of tasks. Yesterday I watched part of his video explaining the
combination square.

I learned that you can use a combination square to draw a straight
line.... WOW!
I thought only my tri-square and rules allowed you to draw straight
lines. :~)
I think he meant to say, draw a perpendicular line to straight edge.

He is obviously running out of things to show while hawking his work
bench plans at the beginning of the video.

wrote in message ...

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 02:00:34 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

My shop was all but completely outfitted about 15 years before I retired.
What I saw in my woodworkers club was guys retiring and then trying to
build
a shop, buy all the tools, and buy wood. Guess what... it was basically
too
late for many of them. They didn't have the discretionary income or the
skills to do much of anything. After seeing that happen numerous times I
decided to just do it!

Exactly. Right now I have plenty of money and no time. Shortly, I'll
have plenty of time and no money. ;-) The problem is that SWMBO will
have an infinite honeydo list.

I was going to retire a year ago but SWMBO had other ideas. That
timer ran out in October so I can leave at any time. Work is
interesting now so told the boss I'd finish the project I'm working
on. It's easy work. Covid has everyone working from home and he's in
Detroit anyway. We're on a phone call twice a week. I can deal with
such micro-management. ;-)

I think these are the last stationary tools that I'll need. I didn't
think I needed a jointer but looking at the lumber I've seen around, I
think it's going to be a must. The last, and not completely
necessary, stationary tools will be the DC.

I've used my shop as much for home renovation/improvement projects as I have
for fine woodworking projects. In fact, those home renovation/improvement
projects were often where I discovered I needed bigger and more powerful
tools. The upside of the home renovation/improvement projects make for
better justification for buying tools than do hobby woodworking projects.
;~)

On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 2:23:50 PM UTC-4, John Grossbohlin wrote:
wrote in message ...

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 02:00:34 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

My shop was all but completely outfitted about 15 years before I retired.
What I saw in my woodworkers club was guys retiring and then trying to
build
a shop, buy all the tools, and buy wood. Guess what... it was basically
too
late for many of them. They didn't have the discretionary income or the
skills to do much of anything. After seeing that happen numerous times I
decided to just do it!

Exactly. Right now I have plenty of money and no time. Shortly, I'll
have plenty of time and no money. ;-) The problem is that SWMBO will
have an infinite honeydo list.

I was going to retire a year ago but SWMBO had other ideas. That
timer ran out in October so I can leave at any time. Work is
interesting now so told the boss I'd finish the project I'm working
on. It's easy work. Covid has everyone working from home and he's in
Detroit anyway. We're on a phone call twice a week. I can deal with
such micro-management. ;-)

I think these are the last stationary tools that I'll need. I didn't
think I needed a jointer but looking at the lumber I've seen around, I
think it's going to be a must. The last, and not completely
necessary, stationary tools will be the DC.
I've used my shop as much for home renovation/improvement projects as I have
for fine woodworking projects. In fact, those home renovation/improvement
projects were often where I discovered I needed bigger and more powerful
tools. The upside of the home renovation/improvement projects make for
better justification for buying tools than do hobby woodworking projects.
;~)

So true!

Building things for the kids is also good justification. I started with beds when
they were young and I had very few tools.

Now that they've moved out, I've built benches for their dining room, kitchen
islands & drawers, and yes, still, more beds.

It's hard for SWMBO to argue the need for new tools when it's often her that
suggest that I build something for the kids.