jointers
 

Laguna finally came out with their new line of jointers. The higher
end 8" helical jointer looks nice but at $2750, I think it's out of my
range. Interestingly, all of the Laguna jointers are parallogram.
There are no more dovetail jointers in their lineup. They have 54
cutters, like Powermatic.

The lower end 8" jointer is very similar (1.5HP vs 1.75HP WOW!) but
only has 20 cutters and goes for $2000. 20 cutters, really? There is
a picture of the cutter head. It looks like a kid missing half its
teeth. https://lagunatools.com/classic/jointers/jx8-eco/ Click on
the plus sign on the safety cover.

It's very different than either the Jet or Powermatic so it's a tough
call.

jointers
 

On 3/12/2021 4:28 PM, wrote:

Laguna finally came out with their new line of jointers. The higher
end 8" helical jointer looks nice but at $2750, I think it's out of my
range. Interestingly, all of the Laguna jointers are parallogram.
There are no more dovetail jointers in their lineup. They have 54
cutters, like Powermatic.

The lower end 8" jointer is very similar (1.5HP vs 1.75HP WOW!) but
only has 20 cutters and goes for $2000. 20 cutters, really? There is
a picture of the cutter head. It looks like a kid missing half its
teeth. https://lagunatools.com/classic/jointers/jx8-eco/ Click on
the plus sign on the safety cover.

It's very different than either the Jet or Powermatic so it's a tough
call.



Well the lower end jointer appears to have gone up to $2250 already.

So both jointers look pretty good but you are paying for the extra teeth
on the more costly one. And it seems the cutter heads may be from
different manufacturers. They are called different names. Money being
no object....

I would like to see a video showing the importance or
advantage/disadvantage of the extendable infeed roller. It seems that
the end of the board would drop down in the void between the roller and
the infeed table if the board crowned up in the middle. And having said
that why no outfeed roller.

And I am seeing the more expensive one with 3 HP. vs 1.75. I did not
see a 1.5 version.

Given the length of the tables, I was surprised to see that they are
relatively light weight. 300 lb unpacked. Is the Jet that light too?
My Jet jointer/planer comes in at about 500lb IIRC. 600lb packed.


And the last thing to consider, the warranty.

Jet may be 5 times longer. 5 years.

jointers
 

On Fri, 12 Mar 2021 17:17:02 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/12/2021 4:28 PM, wrote:

Laguna finally came out with their new line of jointers. The higher
end 8" helical jointer looks nice but at $2750, I think it's out of my
range. Interestingly, all of the Laguna jointers are parallogram.
There are no more dovetail jointers in their lineup. They have 54
cutters, like Powermatic.

The lower end 8" jointer is very similar (1.5HP vs 1.75HP WOW!) but
only has 20 cutters and goes for $2000. 20 cutters, really? There is
a picture of the cutter head. It looks like a kid missing half its
teeth. https://lagunatools.com/classic/jointers/jx8-eco/ Click on
the plus sign on the safety cover.

It's very different than either the Jet or Powermatic so it's a tough
call.



Well the lower end jointer appears to have gone up to $2250 already.

So both jointers look pretty good but you are paying for the extra teeth
on the more costly one. And it seems the cutter heads may be from
different manufacturers. They are called different names. Money being
no object....

More teeth and larger motor (3HP vs. 1.75HP). I'd rather not run
another 220 line but perhaps wouldn't need it because the chances of
it running full-tilt for any time is zero. I have one 20A line run
for the DC and another for all of the tools (TS, BS, and lathe). I
*really* don't want to run 10-2 across the basement.

The Laguna is a parallelogram jointer, where the others have dovetail
ways. I don't know how significant that is, really, but I understand
that adjusting tables on a dovetail machine is one RPITA.

I would like to see a video showing the importance or
advantage/disadvantage of the extendable infeed roller. It seems that
the end of the board would drop down in the void between the roller and
the infeed table if the board crowned up in the middle. And having said
that why no outfeed roller.

And I am seeing the more expensive one with 3 HP. vs 1.75. I did not
see a 1.5 version.

I must have been thinking about the 6".

Given the length of the tables, I was surprised to see that they are
relatively light weight. 300 lb unpacked. Is the Jet that light too?
My Jet jointer/planer comes in at about 500lb IIRC. 600lb packed.

500lbs packed. 380lbs net. The Jet has cheaper boxes (450#/380#). Then
Powermatic is almost 500lbs shipped, and a little over 400lbs net.

And the last thing to consider, the warranty.

Jet may be 5 times longer. 5 years.

I don't know anything about Jet customer service but Laguna's
reputation isn't great. I've only contacted them a couple of times
but was reasonably satisfied. As you may remember, the light mount
(part of the lathe) was tapped wrong. After *finally* getting the
right number, they sent out a replacement part, no charge (I'd have
been ****ed otherwise). Small problem. They sent the flange for the
15/24 and I have the 18/36. When called again, they sent the right
casting and I had it in a couple of days.

jointers
 

On Fri, 12 Mar 2021 17:17:02 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

...
I would like to see a video showing the importance or
advantage/disadvantage of the extendable infeed roller. It seems that
the end of the board would drop down in the void between the roller and
the infeed table if the board crowned up in the middle. And having said
that why no outfeed roller.

Agreed. An extra 8" on a 72" bed doesn't seem like it's worth much
and could be a real problem. I marked that up to the design
marketeering department.

jointers
 

wrote in message ...

Agreed. An extra 8" on a 72" bed doesn't seem like it's worth much
and could be a real problem. I marked that up to the design
marketeering department.

I've been thinking about that roller and also about some of the boards I've
run through my DJ-20. The beds on the DJ-20 are 76.5" and I've run 12'-16'
stock through it. The wood drags on the edge of the infeed table as it's
fed. I'm thinking that the roller would likely reduce or even eliminate that
friction and make it easier to feed the wood.

jointers
 

On Friday, March 12, 2021 at 4:28:38 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Laguna finally came out with their new line of jointers. The higher
end 8" helical jointer looks nice but at $2750, I think it's out of my
range. Interestingly, all of the Laguna jointers are parallogram.
There are no more dovetail jointers in their lineup. They have 54
cutters, like Powermatic.

The lower end 8" jointer is very similar (1.5HP vs 1.75HP WOW!) but
only has 20 cutters and goes for $2000. 20 cutters, really? There is
a picture of the cutter head. It looks like a kid missing half its
teeth. https://lagunatools.com/classic/jointers/jx8-eco/ Click on
the plus sign on the safety cover.

It's very different than either the Jet or Powermatic so it's a tough
call.

Is HP really much of a concern with jointers? I think its kind of like a drill press. HP isn't really a factor in deciding which drill press to buy. With a jointer you will be taking off more wood the wider the jointer is. But you can and do adjust the depth of cut so you are only taking off a tiny tiny tiny amount of wood. And you sneak up on taking off the wood. You don't start taking off a full cut. Now I'm not saying you want an underpowered jointer. But once you get enough HP, its enough. You can then ignore that spec.

jointers
 

On 3/12/2021 5:51 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 12 Mar 2021 17:17:02 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/12/2021 4:28 PM, wrote:

Laguna finally came out with their new line of jointers. The higher
end 8" helical jointer looks nice but at $2750, I think it's out of my
range. Interestingly, all of the Laguna jointers are parallogram.
There are no more dovetail jointers in their lineup. They have 54
cutters, like Powermatic.

The lower end 8" jointer is very similar (1.5HP vs 1.75HP WOW!) but
only has 20 cutters and goes for $2000. 20 cutters, really? There is
a picture of the cutter head. It looks like a kid missing half its
teeth. https://lagunatools.com/classic/jointers/jx8-eco/ Click on
the plus sign on the safety cover.

It's very different than either the Jet or Powermatic so it's a tough
call.



Well the lower end jointer appears to have gone up to $2250 already.

So both jointers look pretty good but you are paying for the extra teeth
on the more costly one. And it seems the cutter heads may be from
different manufacturers. They are called different names. Money being
no object....

More teeth and larger motor (3HP vs. 1.75HP). I'd rather not run
another 220 line but perhaps wouldn't need it because the chances of
it running full-tilt for any time is zero. I have one 20A line run
for the DC and another for all of the tools (TS, BS, and lathe). I
*really* don't want to run 10-2 across the basement.

For just a jointer, I would think 1.75 hp should be enough, my combo
unit had 3 but it also has to engage the infeed and out feed when in
planer mode.



The Laguna is a parallelogram jointer, where the others have dovetail
ways. I don't know how significant that is, really, but I understand
that adjusting tables on a dovetail machine is one RPITA.

I would like to see a video showing the importance or
advantage/disadvantage of the extendable infeed roller. It seems that
the end of the board would drop down in the void between the roller and
the infeed table if the board crowned up in the middle. And having said
that why no outfeed roller.

And I am seeing the more expensive one with 3 HP. vs 1.75. I did not
see a 1.5 version.

I must have been thinking about the 6".

Given the length of the tables, I was surprised to see that they are
relatively light weight. 300 lb unpacked. Is the Jet that light too?
My Jet jointer/planer comes in at about 500lb IIRC. 600lb packed.

500lbs packed. 380lbs net. The Jet has cheaper boxes (450#/380#). Then
Powermatic is almost 500lbs shipped, and a little over 400lbs net.

And the last thing to consider, the warranty.

Jet may be 5 times longer. 5 years.

I don't know anything about Jet customer service but Laguna's
reputation isn't great. I've only contacted them a couple of times
but was reasonably satisfied. As you may remember, the light mount
(part of the lathe) was tapped wrong. After *finally* getting the
right number, they sent out a replacement part, no charge (I'd have
been ****ed otherwise). Small problem. They sent the flange for the
15/24 and I have the 18/36. When called again, they sent the right
casting and I had it in a couple of days.


I bought my Laguna BS many years back and when it arrived it was missing
one of the ceramic guide inserts. Laguna was sympathetic and agreed to
send out the replacement as soon as they got one in. I used a dowel pin
for quite a while as they ordered and sent me the wrong one and that
started over again. Beyond that I have had no issues.

With Jet I also got good service. My 3hp TS motor had a start up jolt
when turned on. Jet reps sent me a new start up solenoid and eventually
a new motor. None helped as I learned that the Delta Unisaw had the
same issue. It was explained to me that I had great line voltage so the
motor was coming up to speed instantly.
I also had a bad large rubber insert form my oscillating spindle sander.
They immediately sent a new one to me.
And finally my drum sander feed belt had a tracking issue. They sent
me a new feed belt.

I did not have to wait much at all for replacement parts from Jet.
Laguna was another story.

I personally would feel that Jet would provide the better service after
the sale. They always had the parts, and I would venture to say that
their depth on inventory of parts is deeper than Laguna. My Laguna is a
great machine but with the fact that it was built in Italy might explain
the parts issue, although the ceramic guides are unique to the Laguna
brand and are probably manufactured in the U.S. Who knows.

My ultimate feeling is that the European Laguna machines are closer to
commercial/industrial in quality. Jet is probably closer to the smaller
business/pro in quality on their more robust machines.

Last, I ordered my Jet jointer/planer combo the Monday after
Thanksgiving. It finally arrived January 18, IIRC. I am certain this is
Covid related. I original was going to order the Hammer combo machine
for significantly more money but they were quoting me 7 months wait....
I was OK with that but the fact that I was going to pay $500 for lift
gate shipping and delivery AND they would not guarantee a lift gate
delivery left me with a lot of doubts..

I bought my Jet through my local Woodcraft and deliver with lift gate
had gone up in price from free, to $25. Fine!

Jet's dealer network is considerably larger than Laguna's. When I
bought my Laguna, I had to buy direct from Laguna. Laguna is now
available through Woodcraft and Rockler but I would wager that parts
availability will probably fall short compared to Jet.


Chew on all of that for a while. LOL

jointers
 

On 3/12/2021 5:56 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 12 Mar 2021 17:17:02 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

...
I would like to see a video showing the importance or
advantage/disadvantage of the extendable infeed roller. It seems that
the end of the board would drop down in the void between the roller and
the infeed table if the board crowned up in the middle. And having said
that why no outfeed roller.

Agreed. An extra 8" on a 72" bed doesn't seem like it's worth much
and could be a real problem. I marked that up to the design
marketeering department.


LOL exactly. Hammer offers an extension but is solid iron with no big
gap. I would be more concerned with the gap, on the Laguna, than the
short addition. After all, you run boards through a jointer because
they are not straight or flat. Certainly when the end of the board
falls between the in feed table and the roller the board will lift up on
the out feed side. It may not be an issue but I would have to try it
out before I was convinced that is is a feature and not a problem issue.

jointers
 

On 3/12/2021 10:39 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
wrote in message ...

Agreed.Â* An extra 8" on a 72" bed doesn't seem like it's worth much
and could be a real problem.Â* I marked that up to the design
marketeering department.

I've been thinking about that roller and also about some of the boards
I've run through my DJ-20. The beds on the DJ-20 are 76.5" and I've run
12'-16' stock through it. The wood drags on the edge of the infeed table
as it's fed. I'm thinking that the roller would likely reduce or even
eliminate that friction and make it easier to feed the wood.


Yes. But when the end of the board clears the roller it falls and drags
on the end of the in feed table.... ESPECIALLY on boards less than 8' long.

Eliminating that friction or drag would be temporary with every board
that is longer than the in feed table.

jointers
 

On 3/12/2021 11:54 PM, wrote:
On Friday, March 12, 2021 at 4:28:38 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Laguna finally came out with their new line of jointers. The higher
end 8" helical jointer looks nice but at $2750, I think it's out of my
range. Interestingly, all of the Laguna jointers are parallogram.
There are no more dovetail jointers in their lineup. They have 54
cutters, like Powermatic.

The lower end 8" jointer is very similar (1.5HP vs 1.75HP WOW!) but
only has 20 cutters and goes for $2000. 20 cutters, really? There is
a picture of the cutter head. It looks like a kid missing half its
teeth. https://lagunatools.com/classic/jointers/jx8-eco/ Click on
the plus sign on the safety cover.

It's very different than either the Jet or Powermatic so it's a tough
call.

Is HP really much of a concern with jointers? I think its kind of like a drill press. HP isn't really a factor in deciding which drill press to buy. With a jointer you will be taking off more wood the wider the jointer is. But you can and do adjust the depth of cut so you are only taking off a tiny tiny tiny amount of wood. And you sneak up on taking off the wood. You don't start taking off a full cut. Now I'm not saying you want an underpowered jointer. But once you get enough HP, its enough. You can then ignore that spec.



I would agree with that analogy. With less HP you can make a shallower
cut or feed slower.

BUT BUT BUT.

If the lower HP jointer has less than 1/2 the amount of teeth I would
think that each tooth is taking a bigger bite. And that could
"Possibly" be "something". LOL

Old style planers essentially had 3~4 blades that cut all across the
board. And that is a bigger hunk of wood being removed with each knife cut.

I certainly think this can be "over thought" into indecision.

jointers
 

On Fri, 12 Mar 2021 23:39:34 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

wrote in message ...

Agreed. An extra 8" on a 72" bed doesn't seem like it's worth much
and could be a real problem. I marked that up to the design
marketeering department.

I've been thinking about that roller and also about some of the boards I've
run through my DJ-20. The beds on the DJ-20 are 76.5" and I've run 12'-16'
stock through it. The wood drags on the edge of the infeed table as it's
fed. I'm thinking that the roller would likely reduce or even eliminate that
friction and make it easier to feed the wood.

But it also has to be perfectly coplanar with the table. Another
possible nightmare, IMO.

jointers
 

On 3/13/2021 1:49 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Mar 2021 09:10:38 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/12/2021 11:54 PM, wrote:
On Friday, March 12, 2021 at 4:28:38 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Laguna finally came out with their new line of jointers. The higher
end 8" helical jointer looks nice but at $2750, I think it's out of my
range. Interestingly, all of the Laguna jointers are parallogram.
There are no more dovetail jointers in their lineup. They have 54
cutters, like Powermatic.

The lower end 8" jointer is very similar (1.5HP vs 1.75HP WOW!) but
only has 20 cutters and goes for $2000. 20 cutters, really? There is
a picture of the cutter head. It looks like a kid missing half its
teeth. https://lagunatools.com/classic/jointers/jx8-eco/ Click on
the plus sign on the safety cover.

It's very different than either the Jet or Powermatic so it's a tough
call.

Is HP really much of a concern with jointers? I think its kind of like a drill press. HP isn't really a factor in deciding which drill press to buy. With a jointer you will be taking off more wood the wider the jointer is. But you can and do adjust the depth of cut so you are only taking off a tiny tiny tiny amount of wood. And you sneak up on taking off the wood. You don't start taking off a full cut. Now I'm not saying you want an underpowered jointer. But once you get enough HP, its enough. You can then ignore that spec.



I would agree with that analogy. With less HP you can make a shallower
cut or feed slower.

BUT BUT BUT.

If the lower HP jointer has less than 1/2 the amount of teeth I would
think that each tooth is taking a bigger bite. And that could
"Possibly" be "something". LOL

Old style planers essentially had 3~4 blades that cut all across the
board. And that is a bigger hunk of wood being removed with each knife cut.

Yes, but there is always multiple teeth cutting in the helical cutter.
Any "flywheel" effect isn't going to help.

I certainly think this can be "over thought" into indecision.

Isn't that what we're here for?


LOL. I keep forgetting that. Provide as many scenarios as possible.
And add situations that are not pertinent to the issue. ;!)

jointers
 

On Sat, 13 Mar 2021 09:01:36 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/12/2021 5:56 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 12 Mar 2021 17:17:02 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

...
I would like to see a video showing the importance or
advantage/disadvantage of the extendable infeed roller. It seems that
the end of the board would drop down in the void between the roller and
the infeed table if the board crowned up in the middle. And having said
that why no outfeed roller.

Agreed. An extra 8" on a 72" bed doesn't seem like it's worth much
and could be a real problem. I marked that up to the design
marketeering department.


LOL exactly. Hammer offers an extension but is solid iron with no big
gap. I would be more concerned with the gap, on the Laguna, than the
short addition. After all, you run boards through a jointer because
they are not straight or flat. Certainly when the end of the board
falls between the in feed table and the roller the board will lift up on
the out feed side. It may not be an issue but I would have to try it
out before I was convinced that is is a feature and not a problem issue.

I don't see that as a problem so much as the roller not being coplanar
with the table. Bending the board (either up or down) going through
the knives doesn't seem to be a good idea. I guess it's better than
hanging off the end but it's still only 8". Maybe if it makes it
easier for rollers, it might be worth it.

jointers
 

On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 09:11:21 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/13/2021 1:49 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Mar 2021 09:10:38 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/12/2021 11:54 PM, wrote:
On Friday, March 12, 2021 at 4:28:38 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Laguna finally came out with their new line of jointers. The higher
end 8" helical jointer looks nice but at $2750, I think it's out of my
range. Interestingly, all of the Laguna jointers are parallogram.
There are no more dovetail jointers in their lineup. They have 54
cutters, like Powermatic.

The lower end 8" jointer is very similar (1.5HP vs 1.75HP WOW!) but
only has 20 cutters and goes for $2000. 20 cutters, really? There is
a picture of the cutter head. It looks like a kid missing half its
teeth. https://lagunatools.com/classic/jointers/jx8-eco/ Click on
the plus sign on the safety cover.

It's very different than either the Jet or Powermatic so it's a tough
call.

Is HP really much of a concern with jointers? I think its kind of like a drill press. HP isn't really a factor in deciding which drill press to buy. With a jointer you will be taking off more wood the wider the jointer is. But you can and do adjust the depth of cut so you are only taking off a tiny tiny tiny amount of wood. And you sneak up on taking off the wood. You don't start taking off a full cut. Now I'm not saying you want an underpowered jointer. But once you get enough HP, its enough. You can then ignore that spec.



I would agree with that analogy. With less HP you can make a shallower
cut or feed slower.

BUT BUT BUT.

If the lower HP jointer has less than 1/2 the amount of teeth I would
think that each tooth is taking a bigger bite. And that could
"Possibly" be "something". LOL

Old style planers essentially had 3~4 blades that cut all across the
board. And that is a bigger hunk of wood being removed with each knife cut.

Yes, but there is always multiple teeth cutting in the helical cutter.
Any "flywheel" effect isn't going to help.

I certainly think this can be "over thought" into indecision.

Isn't that what we're here for?


LOL. I keep forgetting that. Provide as many scenarios as possible.
And add situations that are not pertinent to the issue. ;!)

Seriously, that's about where I am. I was 90% sure the Laguna was the
right way to go but the new, lower end one just isn't going to happen.
Only 20 knives? I don't seen $2800 for the upper model either. The
Powermatic is high, too. Unless something happens, it looks like the
Jet is the better deal. Jet always seems to have a 10% sale going on
so that pays the sales tax and a (very) little.

jointers
 

"Leon" wrote in message
...

On 3/12/2021 10:39 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

I've been thinking about that roller and also about some of the boards
I've run through my DJ-20. The beds on the DJ-20 are 76.5" and I've run
12'-16' stock through it. The wood drags on the edge of the infeed table
as it's fed. I'm thinking that the roller would likely reduce or even
eliminate that friction and make it easier to feed the wood.


Yes. But when the end of the board clears the roller it falls and drags on
the end of the in feed table.... ESPECIALLY on boards less than 8' long.

Eliminating that friction or drag would be temporary with every board that
is longer than the in feed table.

Yes, it's temporary. However, when you have 12-16' boards in play the last
thing you need is more friction while you've got all that wood hanging out
there!

By the time the end of the board reaches the roller it's a non-issue. This
as the problem of the board drooping, even a little, over the end of the
infeed and dragging is all but gone by then... The feed pressure is on the
outfeed table within a foot or two of feeding and that generally controls
the cut. When face jointing, if a board is so bowed or twisted that more
than droop is creating a lot of friction at the end of the infeed table I'd
think it should be cut to shorter lengths. This as there might be nothing
left by the time it's flat! Likewise, for edge jointing, if the crook is
real bad it should either be straight line ripped or cut into shorter
lengths.

Me... bow/twist/crook assessments take place before the wood gets to the
jointer and if they are bad enough a saw will be involved before the jointer
is used. It's the droop induced friction on the long boards that would be
nice to moderate and a roller could help do that.

jointers
 

On 3/14/2021 9:53 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"Leon"Â* wrote in message
...

On 3/12/2021 10:39 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

I've been thinking about that roller and also about some of the boards
I've run through my DJ-20. The beds on the DJ-20 are 76.5" and I've
run 12'-16' stock through it. The wood drags on the edge of the infeed
table as it's fed. I'm thinking that the roller would likely reduce or
even eliminate that friction and make it easier to feed the wood.


Yes.Â* But when the end of the board clears the roller it falls and
drags on the end of the in feed table....Â* ESPECIALLY on boards less
than 8' long.

Eliminating that friction or drag would be temporary with every board
that is longer than the in feed table.

Yes, it's temporary. However, when you have 12-16' boards in play the
last thing you need is more friction while you've got all that wood
hanging out there!

By the time the end of the board reaches the roller it's a non-issue.
This as the problem of the board drooping, even a little, over the end
of the infeed and dragging is all but gone by then... The feed pressure
is on the outfeed table within a foot or two of feeding and that
generally controls the cut. When face jointing, if a board is so bowed
or twisted that more than droop is creating a lot of friction at the end
of the infeed table I'd think it should be cut to shorter lengths. This
as there might be nothing left by the time it's flat!Â* Likewise, for
edge jointing, if the crook is real bad it should either be straight
line ripped or cut into shorter lengths.

Me... bow/twist/crook assessments take place before the wood gets to the
jointer and if they are bad enough a saw will be involved before the
jointer is used.Â* It's the droop induced friction on the long boards
that would be nice to moderate and a roller could help do that.



Gotch'a I can clearly see how this would be a good feature with
loooooong boards. They likely would bend and straighten as their ends
reached the roller.

I was thinking more in lines of the lengths that "I" would likely be
running through the jointer. Less than 8' and really likely less than
6' and boards with bends.

jointers
 

On 3/14/2021 8:54 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 09:11:21 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/13/2021 1:49 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Mar 2021 09:10:38 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/12/2021 11:54 PM, wrote:
On Friday, March 12, 2021 at 4:28:38 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Laguna finally came out with their new line of jointers. The higher
end 8" helical jointer looks nice but at $2750, I think it's out of my
range. Interestingly, all of the Laguna jointers are parallogram.
There are no more dovetail jointers in their lineup. They have 54
cutters, like Powermatic.

The lower end 8" jointer is very similar (1.5HP vs 1.75HP WOW!) but
only has 20 cutters and goes for $2000. 20 cutters, really? There is
a picture of the cutter head. It looks like a kid missing half its
teeth. https://lagunatools.com/classic/jointers/jx8-eco/ Click on
the plus sign on the safety cover.

It's very different than either the Jet or Powermatic so it's a tough
call.

Is HP really much of a concern with jointers? I think its kind of like a drill press. HP isn't really a factor in deciding which drill press to buy. With a jointer you will be taking off more wood the wider the jointer is. But you can and do adjust the depth of cut so you are only taking off a tiny tiny tiny amount of wood. And you sneak up on taking off the wood. You don't start taking off a full cut. Now I'm not saying you want an underpowered jointer. But once you get enough HP, its enough. You can then ignore that spec.



I would agree with that analogy. With less HP you can make a shallower
cut or feed slower.

BUT BUT BUT.

If the lower HP jointer has less than 1/2 the amount of teeth I would
think that each tooth is taking a bigger bite. And that could
"Possibly" be "something". LOL

Old style planers essentially had 3~4 blades that cut all across the
board. And that is a bigger hunk of wood being removed with each knife cut.

Yes, but there is always multiple teeth cutting in the helical cutter.
Any "flywheel" effect isn't going to help.

I certainly think this can be "over thought" into indecision.

Isn't that what we're here for?


LOL. I keep forgetting that. Provide as many scenarios as possible.
And add situations that are not pertinent to the issue. ;!)

Seriously, that's about where I am. I was 90% sure the Laguna was the
right way to go but the new, lower end one just isn't going to happen.
Only 20 knives? I don't seen $2800 for the upper model either. The
Powermatic is high, too. Unless something happens, it looks like the
Jet is the better deal. Jet always seems to have a 10% sale going on
so that pays the sales tax and a (very) little.



Well, the Laguna is certainly a more "sexy" looking machine and we all
know that is an important category.. ;!)
I had that to consider between the Jet and the Hammer. So maybe not so
important. ;~)

Then the color, that is going to be as clear as black or white.

So with the lower end Laguna with 20 teeth...The upper end with almost
triple the teeth, 54, The Jet falls some where in between
with 36. I think that 20 teeth would be maybe a bit too coarse. I
think feed rate will even out the playing field on all of these models.

My 12" Jet has 56 teeth so the ratio is the same as with the 36 teeth on
the 8" Jet. I can attest that the cut is smooth AND QUIET or should I
say, q u i e t.

BUT with 54 teeth,,,, I would think smoother. But where do you draw the
line? Are you going to apply a finish as the work exits the jointer or
will you finish sand? If you are going to sand I would think the
quality of the cut on the Jet will be fine.

The guard might be a consideration but they all appear to be the
American version, pork chop. Oddly I thought the Euro style would be
weird. After using it I prefer it just from the stand point that the
American version slaps the fence every time the work clears.

Table height is almost the same for both. The style/thickness of the
soles on the shoes you wear in the shop probably differs more.

Where do you like the switch? It appears that the Jet has dual
positions, high or low.
apparently you get both with the Laguna and the bump bar across the
front. I wonder if that would be an accidental shut down issue. I
often accidentally turn my SawStop off by leaning into the on off switch.


Table adjustments. That is a big difference between the two.. The
crank on the Laguna will be finer to adjust but slower. The lever on
the Jet is quick but more coarse. With a jointer the fine tune adjust
with the wheels is probably not a factor. And how often will you make
those adjustments once you find the setting that you like.

Voltage is the same so you will have to deal with that.

The Laguna is 3 hp, the Jet is 2 hp. 2 is probably going to be plenty.

Can you put your hands on one before the purchase. Rockler and
Woodcraft are common stores, maybe not for you, but both carry both
brands. BUT right NOW neither are likely to have one on the floor to
look at. My local Woodcraft store is almost empty of anything that is
not built in the USA.

Will shipping be a consideration? I had my jointer/planer delivered
into my garage for $25 above purchase price,

Is the Laguna mobile? YES, build in wheels.

jointers
 

"Leon" wrote in message
...

On 3/14/2021 9:53 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"Leon" wrote in message
...

On 3/12/2021 10:39 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

I've been thinking about that roller and also about some of the boards
I've run through my DJ-20. The beds on the DJ-20 are 76.5" and I've run
12'-16' stock through it. The wood drags on the edge of the infeed table
as it's fed. I'm thinking that the roller would likely reduce or even
eliminate that friction and make it easier to feed the wood.


Yes. But when the end of the board clears the roller it falls and drags
on the end of the in feed table.... ESPECIALLY on boards less than 8'
long.

Eliminating that friction or drag would be temporary with every board
that is longer than the in feed table.

Yes, it's temporary. However, when you have 12-16' boards in play the
last thing you need is more friction while you've got all that wood
hanging out there!

By the time the end of the board reaches the roller it's a non-issue.
This as the problem of the board drooping, even a little, over the end of
the infeed and dragging is all but gone by then... The feed pressure is
on the outfeed table within a foot or two of feeding and that generally
controls the cut. When face jointing, if a board is so bowed or twisted
that more than droop is creating a lot of friction at the end of the
infeed table I'd think it should be cut to shorter lengths. This as there
might be nothing left by the time it's flat! Likewise, for edge
jointing, if the crook is real bad it should either be straight line
ripped or cut into shorter lengths.

Me... bow/twist/crook assessments take place before the wood gets to the
jointer and if they are bad enough a saw will be involved before the
jointer is used. It's the droop induced friction on the long boards that
would be nice to moderate and a roller could help do that.

Gotch'a I can clearly see how this would be a good feature with loooooong
boards. They likely would bend and straighten as their ends reached the
roller.

I was thinking more in lines of the lengths that "I" would likely be
running through the jointer. Less than 8' and really likely less than 6'
and boards with bends.

Yeah... this isn't an issue when making most furniture and cabinets but it
can be with architectural woodworking... For example, I've got a big poplar
tree that I'll be milling into boards. If the logs allow for it, I hope to
yield some boards about 18' long. With them I'm going to make baseboards
and crown for my house. That will leave me with no joints any where in those
items. Everything else will be 8-10 feet. With one face jointed I can run
them through my thickness planner and Jet molder.

An associate of mine owns a commercial cabinet shop. He does paneled bank
interiors, hotel lobbies, etc. I've watched him joint 16'+ cherry on his 8"
Powermatic jointer before running it through his Williams & Hussey molding
machine. I watched intently to see if he had any tricks for working with
boards that long...This as he's got 30+ years in the business. The short
answer was he had the same struggles as I.

Moving forward with my renovation, I will have my power feeder on the
jointer to process the trim and flooring before thickness planning and
molding. The power feeder will deal with the droop and friction much better
than I can by hand...

We've all had our challenges doing woodworking and we've all come up with
solutions... some more elegant than others!

jointers
 

On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 22:53:13 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

"Leon" wrote in message
...

On 3/12/2021 10:39 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

I've been thinking about that roller and also about some of the boards
I've run through my DJ-20. The beds on the DJ-20 are 76.5" and I've run
12'-16' stock through it. The wood drags on the edge of the infeed table
as it's fed. I'm thinking that the roller would likely reduce or even
eliminate that friction and make it easier to feed the wood.


Yes. But when the end of the board clears the roller it falls and drags on
the end of the in feed table.... ESPECIALLY on boards less than 8' long.

Eliminating that friction or drag would be temporary with every board that
is longer than the in feed table.

Yes, it's temporary. However, when you have 12-16' boards in play the last
thing you need is more friction while you've got all that wood hanging out
there!

I'd think a version of infeed/outfeed tables would work better to keep
the ends supported.

By the time the end of the board reaches the roller it's a non-issue. This
as the problem of the board drooping, even a little, over the end of the
infeed and dragging is all but gone by then... The feed pressure is on the
outfeed table within a foot or two of feeding and that generally controls
the cut. When face jointing, if a board is so bowed or twisted that more
than droop is creating a lot of friction at the end of the infeed table I'd
think it should be cut to shorter lengths. This as there might be nothing
left by the time it's flat! Likewise, for edge jointing, if the crook is
real bad it should either be straight line ripped or cut into shorter
lengths.

Me... bow/twist/crook assessments take place before the wood gets to the
jointer and if they are bad enough a saw will be involved before the jointer
is used. It's the droop induced friction on the long boards that would be
nice to moderate and a roller could help do that.

Laguna (and others, I'm sure) make adjustable rollers for planers,
jointers, and sanders. I was about to buy one or two, then they
raised the price by a third.'

jointers
 

On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 09:35:15 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/14/2021 8:54 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 09:11:21 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/13/2021 1:49 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Mar 2021 09:10:38 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/12/2021 11:54 PM, wrote:
On Friday, March 12, 2021 at 4:28:38 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Laguna finally came out with their new line of jointers. The higher
end 8" helical jointer looks nice but at $2750, I think it's out of my
range. Interestingly, all of the Laguna jointers are parallogram.
There are no more dovetail jointers in their lineup. They have 54
cutters, like Powermatic.

The lower end 8" jointer is very similar (1.5HP vs 1.75HP WOW!) but
only has 20 cutters and goes for $2000. 20 cutters, really? There is
a picture of the cutter head. It looks like a kid missing half its
teeth. https://lagunatools.com/classic/jointers/jx8-eco/ Click on
the plus sign on the safety cover.

It's very different than either the Jet or Powermatic so it's a tough
call.

Is HP really much of a concern with jointers? I think its kind of like a drill press. HP isn't really a factor in deciding which drill press to buy. With a jointer you will be taking off more wood the wider the jointer is. But you can and do adjust the depth of cut so you are only taking off a tiny tiny tiny amount of wood. And you sneak up on taking off the wood. You don't start taking off a full cut. Now I'm not saying you want an underpowered jointer. But once you get enough HP, its enough. You can then ignore that spec.



I would agree with that analogy. With less HP you can make a shallower
cut or feed slower.

BUT BUT BUT.

If the lower HP jointer has less than 1/2 the amount of teeth I would
think that each tooth is taking a bigger bite. And that could
"Possibly" be "something". LOL

Old style planers essentially had 3~4 blades that cut all across the
board. And that is a bigger hunk of wood being removed with each knife cut.

Yes, but there is always multiple teeth cutting in the helical cutter.
Any "flywheel" effect isn't going to help.

I certainly think this can be "over thought" into indecision.

Isn't that what we're here for?


LOL. I keep forgetting that. Provide as many scenarios as possible.
And add situations that are not pertinent to the issue. ;!)

Seriously, that's about where I am. I was 90% sure the Laguna was the
right way to go but the new, lower end one just isn't going to happen.
Only 20 knives? I don't seen $2800 for the upper model either. The
Powermatic is high, too. Unless something happens, it looks like the
Jet is the better deal. Jet always seems to have a 10% sale going on
so that pays the sales tax and a (very) little.



Well, the Laguna is certainly a more "sexy" looking machine and we all
know that is an important category.. ;!)
I had that to consider between the Jet and the Hammer. So maybe not so
important. ;~)

Then the color, that is going to be as clear as black or white.

Boo! Hiss! You should be punished for that one.

So with the lower end Laguna with 20 teeth...The upper end with almost
triple the teeth, 54, The Jet falls some where in between
with 36. I think that 20 teeth would be maybe a bit too coarse. I
think feed rate will even out the playing field on all of these models.

My 12" Jet has 56 teeth so the ratio is the same as with the 36 teeth on
the 8" Jet. I can attest that the cut is smooth AND QUIET or should I
say, q u i e t.

BUT with 54 teeth,,,, I would think smoother. But where do you draw the
line? Are you going to apply a finish as the work exits the jointer or
will you finish sand? If you are going to sand I would think the
quality of the cut on the Jet will be fine.

Sand. I have a drum sander so I might just as well use it. Edges
don't get sanded. For joints, that's pretty important. OTOH, the saw
is going to get to the edges anyway.

The guard might be a consideration but they all appear to be the
American version, pork chop. Oddly I thought the Euro style would be
weird. After using it I prefer it just from the stand point that the
American version slaps the fence every time the work clears.

I can see where the European style would be preferable. I hadn't seen
that before.

Table height is almost the same for both. The style/thickness of the
soles on the shoes you wear in the shop probably differs more.

Where do you like the switch? It appears that the Jet has dual
positions, high or low.
apparently you get both with the Laguna and the bump bar across the
front. I wonder if that would be an accidental shut down issue. I
often accidentally turn my SawStop off by leaning into the on off switch.

I thought of that for a minute but now that you mention it, it's
probably not a good idea. Turning it off in the middle of a cut
probably wouldn't be good. I also turn off my saw with my hip. It
keeps my hands free and eyes on them.


Table adjustments. That is a big difference between the two.. The
crank on the Laguna will be finer to adjust but slower. The lever on
the Jet is quick but more coarse. With a jointer the fine tune adjust
with the wheels is probably not a factor. And how often will you make
those adjustments once you find the setting that you like.

The Jet JWJ-8HH has cranks. The new Laguna has the levers. I played
with a Powermatic at Woodcraft. I couldn't figure out how to use
them. I got that they moved the table and that twisting them did
something but locking the lever also locked the twist.

Voltage is the same so you will have to deal with that.

The Laguna is 3 hp, the Jet is 2 hp. 2 is probably going to be plenty.

I have two 20A circuits, one for the DC and the other for the tools
(they aren't going to be used at the same time). A 30A (3HP) circuit
would be a RPITA.

Can you put your hands on one before the purchase. Rockler and
Woodcraft are common stores, maybe not for you, but both carry both
brands. BUT right NOW neither are likely to have one on the floor to
look at. My local Woodcraft store is almost empty of anything that is
not built in the USA.

We have both (two of each, actually). With the shortage of power
tools, no one has anything right now. I'm really not ready to buy
quite yet so maybe the situation will correct itself before I am.

Will shipping be a consideration? I had my jointer/planer delivered
into my garage for $25 above purchase price,

Yeah. I'm done moving tools like that in my pickup. I gust about
ruptured a duck getting the lathe from the pickup into the basement. I
would have left it until morning but it was supposed to rain. I
didn't think it would be a good idea.

Is the Laguna mobile? YES, build in wheels.

The old one had fixed wheels. From the ratings it was an issue
moosing it around the shop.

jointers
 

On 3/15/2021 8:50 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 09:35:15 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/14/2021 8:54 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 09:11:21 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/13/2021 1:49 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Mar 2021 09:10:38 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/12/2021 11:54 PM, wrote:
On Friday, March 12, 2021 at 4:28:38 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Laguna finally came out with their new line of jointers. The higher
end 8" helical jointer looks nice but at $2750, I think it's out of my
range. Interestingly, all of the Laguna jointers are parallogram.
There are no more dovetail jointers in their lineup. They have 54
cutters, like Powermatic.

The lower end 8" jointer is very similar (1.5HP vs 1.75HP WOW!) but
only has 20 cutters and goes for $2000. 20 cutters, really? There is
a picture of the cutter head. It looks like a kid missing half its
teeth. https://lagunatools.com/classic/jointers/jx8-eco/ Click on
the plus sign on the safety cover.

It's very different than either the Jet or Powermatic so it's a tough
call.

Is HP really much of a concern with jointers? I think its kind of like a drill press. HP isn't really a factor in deciding which drill press to buy. With a jointer you will be taking off more wood the wider the jointer is. But you can and do adjust the depth of cut so you are only taking off a tiny tiny tiny amount of wood. And you sneak up on taking off the wood. You don't start taking off a full cut. Now I'm not saying you want an underpowered jointer. But once you get enough HP, its enough. You can then ignore that spec.



I would agree with that analogy. With less HP you can make a shallower
cut or feed slower.

BUT BUT BUT.

If the lower HP jointer has less than 1/2 the amount of teeth I would
think that each tooth is taking a bigger bite. And that could
"Possibly" be "something". LOL

Old style planers essentially had 3~4 blades that cut all across the
board. And that is a bigger hunk of wood being removed with each knife cut.

Yes, but there is always multiple teeth cutting in the helical cutter.
Any "flywheel" effect isn't going to help.

I certainly think this can be "over thought" into indecision.

Isn't that what we're here for?


LOL. I keep forgetting that. Provide as many scenarios as possible.
And add situations that are not pertinent to the issue. ;!)

Seriously, that's about where I am. I was 90% sure the Laguna was the
right way to go but the new, lower end one just isn't going to happen.
Only 20 knives? I don't seen $2800 for the upper model either. The
Powermatic is high, too. Unless something happens, it looks like the
Jet is the better deal. Jet always seems to have a 10% sale going on
so that pays the sales tax and a (very) little.



Well, the Laguna is certainly a more "sexy" looking machine and we all
know that is an important category.. ;!)
I had that to consider between the Jet and the Hammer. So maybe not so
important. ;~)

Then the color, that is going to be as clear as black or white.

Boo! Hiss! You should be punished for that one.

Two birds with one stone....


So with the lower end Laguna with 20 teeth...The upper end with almost
triple the teeth, 54, The Jet falls some where in between
with 36. I think that 20 teeth would be maybe a bit too coarse. I
think feed rate will even out the playing field on all of these models.

My 12" Jet has 56 teeth so the ratio is the same as with the 36 teeth on
the 8" Jet. I can attest that the cut is smooth AND QUIET or should I
say, q u i e t.

BUT with 54 teeth,,,, I would think smoother. But where do you draw the
line? Are you going to apply a finish as the work exits the jointer or
will you finish sand? If you are going to sand I would think the
quality of the cut on the Jet will be fine.

Sand. I have a drum sander so I might just as well use it. Edges
don't get sanded. For joints, that's pretty important. OTOH, the saw
is going to get to the edges anyway.

Me too but I rarely use it after the planer, more for smoothing out BS
rough cut, thicknessing a rough cut.

I do edge sand cabinet doors and drawer fronts.
Now I use the new Festool attachment for that.
Yesterday I edge sanded 16 drawer fronts, twice.

Once for the 90 degree edge and then again for the 45 degree
champher/bevel that I added to the front outside edge on the router table.



The guard might be a consideration but they all appear to be the
American version, pork chop. Oddly I thought the Euro style would be
weird. After using it I prefer it just from the stand point that the
American version slaps the fence every time the work clears.

I can see where the European style would be preferable. I hadn't seen
that before.

I think it is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. I hated the slap
of the pork vchop on my old jointer.

Table height is almost the same for both. The style/thickness of the
soles on the shoes you wear in the shop probably differs more.

Where do you like the switch? It appears that the Jet has dual
positions, high or low.
apparently you get both with the Laguna and the bump bar across the
front. I wonder if that would be an accidental shut down issue. I
often accidentally turn my SawStop off by leaning into the on off switch.

I thought of that for a minute but now that you mention it, it's
probably not a good idea. Turning it off in the middle of a cut
probably wouldn't be good. I also turn off my saw with my hip. It
keeps my hands free and eyes on them.


Table adjustments. That is a big difference between the two.. The
crank on the Laguna will be finer to adjust but slower. The lever on
the Jet is quick but more coarse. With a jointer the fine tune adjust
with the wheels is probably not a factor. And how often will you make
those adjustments once you find the setting that you like.

The Jet JWJ-8HH has cranks. The new Laguna has the levers. I played
with a Powermatic at Woodcraft. I couldn't figure out how to use
them. I got that they moved the table and that twisting them did
something but locking the lever also locked the twist.


I stand corrected. And YES the Powermatic is really strange. It's like
they wanted to be different but not in a good way.

Voltage is the same so you will have to deal with that.

The Laguna is 3 hp, the Jet is 2 hp. 2 is probably going to be plenty.

I have two 20A circuits, one for the DC and the other for the tools
(they aren't going to be used at the same time). A 30A (3HP) circuit
would be a RPITA.

Yes, and why I have a long 10/3 extension cord.

Can you put your hands on one before the purchase. Rockler and
Woodcraft are common stores, maybe not for you, but both carry both
brands. BUT right NOW neither are likely to have one on the floor to
look at. My local Woodcraft store is almost empty of anything that is
not built in the USA.

We have both (two of each, actually). With the shortage of power
tools, no one has anything right now. I'm really not ready to buy
quite yet so maybe the situation will correct itself before I am.

I understand the "over seas" manufacturers production is way down.



Will shipping be a consideration? I had my jointer/planer delivered
into my garage for $25 above purchase price,

Yeah. I'm done moving tools like that in my pickup. I gust about
ruptured a duck getting the lathe from the pickup into the basement. I
would have left it until morning but it was supposed to rain. I
didn't think it would be a good idea.

Is the Laguna mobile? YES, build in wheels.

The old one had fixed wheels. From the ratings it was an issue
moosing it around the shop.


Fixed wheels are better than no wheels but not much... My drum sander
has an enclosed base with fixed wheels. I have managed to place it
against a wall in a location that does not require turning. I pull it
straight out whan I use it and push it straight back in when I'm done.
I'm certain that it is lighter weight than a jointer so turning a
jointer will probably be more troublesome.

I bought the top end Bora mobile base for my 500 lb. jointer/planer.
Each wheel swivels vs the model with only 2 swivel wheels. It actually
glides more easily than my SawStop mobile base, and I thought it was
pretty easy to maneuver. The SawStop will remain in place when elevated
on to the wheels. The jointer will take off towards the garage door
opening, natural slant of the garage floor. I have to keep at least one
of the locking feet at each wheel, 4, locked.

jointers
 

On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 10:14:00 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 3/15/2021 8:50 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 09:35:15 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/14/2021 8:54 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 09:11:21 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/13/2021 1:49 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Mar 2021 09:10:38 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/12/2021 11:54 PM, wrote:
On Friday, March 12, 2021 at 4:28:38 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Laguna finally came out with their new line of jointers. The higher
end 8" helical jointer looks nice but at $2750, I think it's out of my
range. Interestingly, all of the Laguna jointers are parallogram..
There are no more dovetail jointers in their lineup. They have 54
cutters, like Powermatic.

The lower end 8" jointer is very similar (1.5HP vs 1.75HP WOW!) but
only has 20 cutters and goes for $2000. 20 cutters, really? There is
a picture of the cutter head. It looks like a kid missing half its
teeth. https://lagunatools.com/classic/jointers/jx8-eco/ Click on
the plus sign on the safety cover.

It's very different than either the Jet or Powermatic so it's a tough
call.

Is HP really much of a concern with jointers? I think its kind of like a drill press. HP isn't really a factor in deciding which drill press to buy. With a jointer you will be taking off more wood the wider the jointer is. But you can and do adjust the depth of cut so you are only taking off a tiny tiny tiny amount of wood. And you sneak up on taking off the wood.. You don't start taking off a full cut. Now I'm not saying you want an underpowered jointer. But once you get enough HP, its enough. You can then ignore that spec.



I would agree with that analogy. With less HP you can make a shallower
cut or feed slower.

BUT BUT BUT.

If the lower HP jointer has less than 1/2 the amount of teeth I would
think that each tooth is taking a bigger bite. And that could
"Possibly" be "something". LOL

Old style planers essentially had 3~4 blades that cut all across the
board. And that is a bigger hunk of wood being removed with each knife cut.

Yes, but there is always multiple teeth cutting in the helical cutter.
Any "flywheel" effect isn't going to help.

I certainly think this can be "over thought" into indecision.

Isn't that what we're here for?


LOL. I keep forgetting that. Provide as many scenarios as possible.
And add situations that are not pertinent to the issue. ;!)

Seriously, that's about where I am. I was 90% sure the Laguna was the
right way to go but the new, lower end one just isn't going to happen..
Only 20 knives? I don't seen $2800 for the upper model either. The
Powermatic is high, too. Unless something happens, it looks like the
Jet is the better deal. Jet always seems to have a 10% sale going on
so that pays the sales tax and a (very) little.



Well, the Laguna is certainly a more "sexy" looking machine and we all
know that is an important category.. ;!)
I had that to consider between the Jet and the Hammer. So maybe not so
important. ;~)

Then the color, that is going to be as clear as black or white.

Boo! Hiss! You should be punished for that one.
Two birds with one stone....

So with the lower end Laguna with 20 teeth...The upper end with almost
triple the teeth, 54, The Jet falls some where in between
with 36. I think that 20 teeth would be maybe a bit too coarse. I
think feed rate will even out the playing field on all of these models..

My 12" Jet has 56 teeth so the ratio is the same as with the 36 teeth on
the 8" Jet. I can attest that the cut is smooth AND QUIET or should I
say, q u i e t.

BUT with 54 teeth,,,, I would think smoother. But where do you draw the
line? Are you going to apply a finish as the work exits the jointer or
will you finish sand? If you are going to sand I would think the
quality of the cut on the Jet will be fine.

Sand. I have a drum sander so I might just as well use it. Edges
don't get sanded. For joints, that's pretty important. OTOH, the saw
is going to get to the edges anyway.
Me too but I rarely use it after the planer, more for smoothing out BS
rough cut, thicknessing a rough cut.

I do edge sand cabinet doors and drawer fronts.
Now I use the new Festool attachment for that.
Yesterday I edge sanded 16 drawer fronts, twice.

Once for the 90 degree edge and then again for the 45 degree
champher/bevel that I added to the front outside edge on the router table..

The guard might be a consideration but they all appear to be the
American version, pork chop. Oddly I thought the Euro style would be
weird. After using it I prefer it just from the stand point that the
American version slaps the fence every time the work clears.

I can see where the European style would be preferable. I hadn't seen
that before.
I think it is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. I hated the slap
of the pork vchop on my old jointer.

Table height is almost the same for both. The style/thickness of the
soles on the shoes you wear in the shop probably differs more.

Where do you like the switch? It appears that the Jet has dual
positions, high or low.
apparently you get both with the Laguna and the bump bar across the
front. I wonder if that would be an accidental shut down issue. I
often accidentally turn my SawStop off by leaning into the on off switch.

I thought of that for a minute but now that you mention it, it's
probably not a good idea. Turning it off in the middle of a cut
probably wouldn't be good. I also turn off my saw with my hip. It
keeps my hands free and eyes on them.


Table adjustments. That is a big difference between the two.. The
crank on the Laguna will be finer to adjust but slower. The lever on
the Jet is quick but more coarse. With a jointer the fine tune adjust
with the wheels is probably not a factor. And how often will you make
those adjustments once you find the setting that you like.

The Jet JWJ-8HH has cranks. The new Laguna has the levers. I played
with a Powermatic at Woodcraft. I couldn't figure out how to use
them. I got that they moved the table and that twisting them did
something but locking the lever also locked the twist.
I stand corrected. And YES the Powermatic is really strange. It's like
they wanted to be different but not in a good way.

Voltage is the same so you will have to deal with that.

The Laguna is 3 hp, the Jet is 2 hp. 2 is probably going to be plenty.

I have two 20A circuits, one for the DC and the other for the tools
(they aren't going to be used at the same time). A 30A (3HP) circuit
would be a RPITA.
Yes, and why I have a long 10/3 extension cord.

Can you put your hands on one before the purchase. Rockler and
Woodcraft are common stores, maybe not for you, but both carry both
brands. BUT right NOW neither are likely to have one on the floor to
look at. My local Woodcraft store is almost empty of anything that is
not built in the USA.

We have both (two of each, actually). With the shortage of power
tools, no one has anything right now. I'm really not ready to buy
quite yet so maybe the situation will correct itself before I am.
I understand the "over seas" manufacturers production is way down.

Will shipping be a consideration? I had my jointer/planer delivered
into my garage for $25 above purchase price,

Yeah. I'm done moving tools like that in my pickup. I gust about
ruptured a duck getting the lathe from the pickup into the basement. I
would have left it until morning but it was supposed to rain. I
didn't think it would be a good idea.

Is the Laguna mobile? YES, build in wheels.

The old one had fixed wheels. From the ratings it was an issue
moosing it around the shop.

Fixed wheels are better than no wheels but not much... My drum sander
has an enclosed base with fixed wheels. I have managed to place it
against a wall in a location that does not require turning. I pull it
straight out whan I use it and push it straight back in when I'm done.
I'm certain that it is lighter weight than a jointer so turning a
jointer will probably be more troublesome.

I bought the top end Bora mobile base for my 500 lb. jointer/planer.
Each wheel swivels vs the model with only 2 swivel wheels. It actually
glides more easily than my SawStop mobile base, and I thought it was
pretty easy to maneuver. The SawStop will remain in place when elevated
on to the wheels. The jointer will take off towards the garage door
opening, natural slant of the garage floor. I have to keep at least one
of the locking feet at each wheel, 4, locked.

And 4 wheels are probably better than 3.

I've got my table saw on a one of these bases.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Delta-Un...-345/203293655

It's fine for straight in and out of it's storage spot, which works for the
vast majority of how I use it, but I have no room for wide sweeping turns.
If I need to move it sideways, I basically have to drag it.

I really need to add 4 swiveling wheels. The only thing slowing me down is
that changing the height would mean modifying my outfeed table. I mounted
a channel on the back of the saw that the OFT slips into. The far end rests
on my workbench, perfectly level.

It shouldn't *that* hard to fix but one thing always leads to another, so who
knows. (I think the OFT issue is just an excuse)

jointers
 

On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 09:13:51 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/15/2021 8:50 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 09:35:15 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:
...

BUT with 54 teeth,,,, I would think smoother. But where do you draw the
line? Are you going to apply a finish as the work exits the jointer or
will you finish sand? If you are going to sand I would think the
quality of the cut on the Jet will be fine.

Sand. I have a drum sander so I might just as well use it. Edges
don't get sanded. For joints, that's pretty important. OTOH, the saw
is going to get to the edges anyway.

Me too but I rarely use it after the planer, more for smoothing out BS
rough cut, thicknessing a rough cut.

I do edge sand cabinet doors and drawer fronts.
Now I use the new Festool attachment for that.
Yesterday I edge sanded 16 drawer fronts, twice.

My point was the edges need to be quite planar and smooth for gluing.
Using an edge sander may get them smooth but screw up what you just
did on the jointer. IOW, the jointer needs to have a pretty decent
cut, all by itself.

Once for the 90 degree edge and then again for the 45 degree
champher/bevel that I added to the front outside edge on the router table.



The guard might be a consideration but they all appear to be the
American version, pork chop. Oddly I thought the Euro style would be
weird. After using it I prefer it just from the stand point that the
American version slaps the fence every time the work clears.

I can see where the European style would be preferable. I hadn't seen
that before.

I think it is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. I hated the slap
of the pork vchop on my old jointer.

I had an old Crapsman. I hated that too. I didn't like using the
machine. It's still holding down the basement floor, getting in my
way. I gotta figure out how to get rid of scrap metal around here.
Our landfill/transfer station's building burned down a couple of years
ago so they closed the whole deal. The alternate is about 40mi and is
run by a different county. I have no idea how to use it, if we even
can. Once I figure it out, my RAS will be traveling with it.

Voltage is the same so you will have to deal with that.

The Laguna is 3 hp, the Jet is 2 hp. 2 is probably going to be plenty.

I have two 20A circuits, one for the DC and the other for the tools
(they aren't going to be used at the same time). A 30A (3HP) circuit
would be a RPITA.

Yes, and why I have a long 10/3 extension cord.

I dislike extension cords with a passion. I'm always tripping on
them. My basement is unfinished so it's possible. The big problem is
the sunken living room in the middle of the house. Getting wires down
to the "sunk" part and back up isn't fun. A pipe, like 10/2, is going
to no fun at all.

Can you put your hands on one before the purchase. Rockler and
Woodcraft are common stores, maybe not for you, but both carry both
brands. BUT right NOW neither are likely to have one on the floor to
look at. My local Woodcraft store is almost empty of anything that is
not built in the USA.

We have both (two of each, actually). With the shortage of power
tools, no one has anything right now. I'm really not ready to buy
quite yet so maybe the situation will correct itself before I am.

I understand the "over seas" manufacturers production is way down.

Everything has been pushed out until summer or late summer. Of course
they want you to order (and pay) now. Don't think that's going to
happen.


Will shipping be a consideration? I had my jointer/planer delivered
into my garage for $25 above purchase price,

Yeah. I'm done moving tools like that in my pickup. I gust about
ruptured a duck getting the lathe from the pickup into the basement. I
would have left it until morning but it was supposed to rain. I
didn't think it would be a good idea.

Is the Laguna mobile? YES, build in wheels.

The old one had fixed wheels. From the ratings it was an issue
moosing it around the shop.


Fixed wheels are better than no wheels but not much... My drum sander
has an enclosed base with fixed wheels. I have managed to place it
against a wall in a location that does not require turning. I pull it
straight out whan I use it and push it straight back in when I'm done.
I'm certain that it is lighter weight than a jointer so turning a
jointer will probably be more troublesome.

My sander has the three-point wheels. It's good enough but takes some
jockeying.

I bought the top end Bora mobile base for my 500 lb. jointer/planer.
Each wheel swivels vs the model with only 2 swivel wheels. It actually
glides more easily than my SawStop mobile base, and I thought it was
pretty easy to maneuver. The SawStop will remain in place when elevated
on to the wheels. The jointer will take off towards the garage door
opening, natural slant of the garage floor. I have to keep at least one
of the locking feet at each wheel, 4, locked.

I bought three of the predecessor to that base. It looks identical,
except that only two of the wheels swivel. Same problem as the
three-point, above. I have one on my DP, which rarely gets moved
(cleaning day) and one on my router table (and the other under a bench
somewhere because Woodcraft was blowing them out, cheap). I wish I'd
gotten the four swivel one. I would have put it on my BS but bought
the ridiculously expensive "mobility kit" instead.

jointers
 

On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 3:19:18 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 09:13:51 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/15/2021 8:50 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 09:35:15 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:
...
BUT with 54 teeth,,,, I would think smoother. But where do you draw the
line? Are you going to apply a finish as the work exits the jointer or
will you finish sand? If you are going to sand I would think the
quality of the cut on the Jet will be fine.

Sand. I have a drum sander so I might just as well use it. Edges
don't get sanded. For joints, that's pretty important. OTOH, the saw
is going to get to the edges anyway.

Me too but I rarely use it after the planer, more for smoothing out BS
rough cut, thicknessing a rough cut.

I do edge sand cabinet doors and drawer fronts.
Now I use the new Festool attachment for that.
Yesterday I edge sanded 16 drawer fronts, twice.
My point was the edges need to be quite planar and smooth for gluing.
Using an edge sander may get them smooth but screw up what you just
did on the jointer. IOW, the jointer needs to have a pretty decent
cut, all by itself.
Once for the 90 degree edge and then again for the 45 degree
champher/bevel that I added to the front outside edge on the router table.



The guard might be a consideration but they all appear to be the
American version, pork chop. Oddly I thought the Euro style would be
weird. After using it I prefer it just from the stand point that the
American version slaps the fence every time the work clears.

I can see where the European style would be preferable. I hadn't seen
that before.

I think it is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. I hated the slap
of the pork vchop on my old jointer.
I had an old Crapsman. I hated that too. I didn't like using the
machine. It's still holding down the basement floor, getting in my
way. I gotta figure out how to get rid of scrap metal around here.
Our landfill/transfer station's building burned down a couple of years
ago so they closed the whole deal. The alternate is about 40mi and is
run by a different county. I have no idea how to use it, if we even
can. Once I figure it out, my RAS will be traveling with it.
Voltage is the same so you will have to deal with that.

The Laguna is 3 hp, the Jet is 2 hp. 2 is probably going to be plenty.

I have two 20A circuits, one for the DC and the other for the tools
(they aren't going to be used at the same time). A 30A (3HP) circuit
would be a RPITA.

Yes, and why I have a long 10/3 extension cord.
I dislike extension cords with a passion. I'm always tripping on
them. My basement is unfinished so it's possible. The big problem is
the sunken living room in the middle of the house. Getting wires down
to the "sunk" part and back up isn't fun. A pipe, like 10/2, is going
to no fun at all.

Can you put your hands on one before the purchase. Rockler and
Woodcraft are common stores, maybe not for you, but both carry both
brands. BUT right NOW neither are likely to have one on the floor to
look at. My local Woodcraft store is almost empty of anything that is
not built in the USA.

We have both (two of each, actually). With the shortage of power
tools, no one has anything right now. I'm really not ready to buy
quite yet so maybe the situation will correct itself before I am.

I understand the "over seas" manufacturers production is way down.
Everything has been pushed out until summer or late summer. Of course
they want you to order (and pay) now. Don't think that's going to
happen.


Will shipping be a consideration? I had my jointer/planer delivered
into my garage for $25 above purchase price,

Yeah. I'm done moving tools like that in my pickup. I gust about
ruptured a duck getting the lathe from the pickup into the basement. I
would have left it until morning but it was supposed to rain. I
didn't think it would be a good idea.

Is the Laguna mobile? YES, build in wheels.

The old one had fixed wheels. From the ratings it was an issue
moosing it around the shop.


Fixed wheels are better than no wheels but not much... My drum sander
has an enclosed base with fixed wheels. I have managed to place it
against a wall in a location that does not require turning. I pull it
straight out whan I use it and push it straight back in when I'm done.
I'm certain that it is lighter weight than a jointer so turning a
jointer will probably be more troublesome.
My sander has the three-point wheels. It's good enough but takes some
jockeying.
I bought the top end Bora mobile base for my 500 lb. jointer/planer.
Each wheel swivels vs the model with only 2 swivel wheels. It actually
glides more easily than my SawStop mobile base, and I thought it was
pretty easy to maneuver. The SawStop will remain in place when elevated
on to the wheels. The jointer will take off towards the garage door
opening, natural slant of the garage floor. I have to keep at least one
of the locking feet at each wheel, 4, locked.
I bought three of the predecessor to that base. It looks identical,
except that only two of the wheels swivel. Same problem as the
three-point, above. I have one on my DP, which rarely gets moved
(cleaning day) and one on my router table (and the other under a bench
somewhere because Woodcraft was blowing them out, cheap). I wish I'd
gotten the four swivel one. I would have put it on my BS but bought
the ridiculously expensive "mobility kit" instead.

This might work for me, but I'd have to add the DC port and lose the bag
that I have under my saw now. Not that that would be a bad thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKILf1o7RTY

I have a router table in place of the right side extension wing and a
Delta T2 fence. Just used it all to make a medicine cabinet for the
bathroom re-do.

jointers
 

On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 19:04:53 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 3:19:18 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 09:13:51 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/15/2021 8:50 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 09:35:15 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:
...
BUT with 54 teeth,,,, I would think smoother. But where do you draw the
line? Are you going to apply a finish as the work exits the jointer or
will you finish sand? If you are going to sand I would think the
quality of the cut on the Jet will be fine.

Sand. I have a drum sander so I might just as well use it. Edges
don't get sanded. For joints, that's pretty important. OTOH, the saw
is going to get to the edges anyway.

Me too but I rarely use it after the planer, more for smoothing out BS
rough cut, thicknessing a rough cut.

I do edge sand cabinet doors and drawer fronts.
Now I use the new Festool attachment for that.
Yesterday I edge sanded 16 drawer fronts, twice.
My point was the edges need to be quite planar and smooth for gluing.
Using an edge sander may get them smooth but screw up what you just
did on the jointer. IOW, the jointer needs to have a pretty decent
cut, all by itself.
Once for the 90 degree edge and then again for the 45 degree
champher/bevel that I added to the front outside edge on the router table.



The guard might be a consideration but they all appear to be the
American version, pork chop. Oddly I thought the Euro style would be
weird. After using it I prefer it just from the stand point that the
American version slaps the fence every time the work clears.

I can see where the European style would be preferable. I hadn't seen
that before.

I think it is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. I hated the slap
of the pork vchop on my old jointer.
I had an old Crapsman. I hated that too. I didn't like using the
machine. It's still holding down the basement floor, getting in my
way. I gotta figure out how to get rid of scrap metal around here.
Our landfill/transfer station's building burned down a couple of years
ago so they closed the whole deal. The alternate is about 40mi and is
run by a different county. I have no idea how to use it, if we even
can. Once I figure it out, my RAS will be traveling with it.
Voltage is the same so you will have to deal with that.

The Laguna is 3 hp, the Jet is 2 hp. 2 is probably going to be plenty.

I have two 20A circuits, one for the DC and the other for the tools
(they aren't going to be used at the same time). A 30A (3HP) circuit
would be a RPITA.

Yes, and why I have a long 10/3 extension cord.
I dislike extension cords with a passion. I'm always tripping on
them. My basement is unfinished so it's possible. The big problem is
the sunken living room in the middle of the house. Getting wires down
to the "sunk" part and back up isn't fun. A pipe, like 10/2, is going
to no fun at all.

Can you put your hands on one before the purchase. Rockler and
Woodcraft are common stores, maybe not for you, but both carry both
brands. BUT right NOW neither are likely to have one on the floor to
look at. My local Woodcraft store is almost empty of anything that is
not built in the USA.

We have both (two of each, actually). With the shortage of power
tools, no one has anything right now. I'm really not ready to buy
quite yet so maybe the situation will correct itself before I am.

I understand the "over seas" manufacturers production is way down.
Everything has been pushed out until summer or late summer. Of course
they want you to order (and pay) now. Don't think that's going to
happen.


Will shipping be a consideration? I had my jointer/planer delivered
into my garage for $25 above purchase price,

Yeah. I'm done moving tools like that in my pickup. I gust about
ruptured a duck getting the lathe from the pickup into the basement. I
would have left it until morning but it was supposed to rain. I
didn't think it would be a good idea.

Is the Laguna mobile? YES, build in wheels.

The old one had fixed wheels. From the ratings it was an issue
moosing it around the shop.


Fixed wheels are better than no wheels but not much... My drum sander
has an enclosed base with fixed wheels. I have managed to place it
against a wall in a location that does not require turning. I pull it
straight out whan I use it and push it straight back in when I'm done.
I'm certain that it is lighter weight than a jointer so turning a
jointer will probably be more troublesome.
My sander has the three-point wheels. It's good enough but takes some
jockeying.
I bought the top end Bora mobile base for my 500 lb. jointer/planer.
Each wheel swivels vs the model with only 2 swivel wheels. It actually
glides more easily than my SawStop mobile base, and I thought it was
pretty easy to maneuver. The SawStop will remain in place when elevated
on to the wheels. The jointer will take off towards the garage door
opening, natural slant of the garage floor. I have to keep at least one
of the locking feet at each wheel, 4, locked.
I bought three of the predecessor to that base. It looks identical,
except that only two of the wheels swivel. Same problem as the
three-point, above. I have one on my DP, which rarely gets moved
(cleaning day) and one on my router table (and the other under a bench
somewhere because Woodcraft was blowing them out, cheap). I wish I'd
gotten the four swivel one. I would have put it on my BS but bought
the ridiculously expensive "mobility kit" instead.

This might work for me, but I'd have to add the DC port and lose the bag
that I have under my saw now. Not that that would be a bad thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKILf1o7RTY

Perhaps make the lever on the back side rather than the middle? You'd
be able to keep the bag.

I've also seen these on sale for about half what they want he
https://www.woodcraft.com/products/woodriver-retracting-casters

I bought a few of these for work benches for $25 each, IIRC. I
remember that they were really cheap (or I wouldn't have jumped on
them).

https://www.rockler.com/rockler-workbench-caster-kit-4-pack

I have a router table in place of the right side extension wing and a
Delta T2 fence. Just used it all to make a medicine cabinet for the
bathroom re-do.

How do you like the router in the extension table. I always thought
it was a good idea but others say that it's always in the way. They
use both tools often and it's always set up for the wrong one. Having
a good fence on both would be nice too.

jointers
 

On 3/16/2021 2:03 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 10:14:00 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 3/15/2021 8:50 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 09:35:15 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/14/2021 8:54 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 09:11:21 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/13/2021 1:49 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Mar 2021 09:10:38 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/12/2021 11:54 PM, wrote:
On Friday, March 12, 2021 at 4:28:38 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Laguna finally came out with their new line of jointers. The higher
end 8" helical jointer looks nice but at $2750, I think it's out of my
range. Interestingly, all of the Laguna jointers are parallogram.
There are no more dovetail jointers in their lineup. They have 54
cutters, like Powermatic.

The lower end 8" jointer is very similar (1.5HP vs 1.75HP WOW!) but
only has 20 cutters and goes for $2000. 20 cutters, really? There is
a picture of the cutter head. It looks like a kid missing half its
teeth. https://lagunatools.com/classic/jointers/jx8-eco/ Click on
the plus sign on the safety cover.

It's very different than either the Jet or Powermatic so it's a tough
call.

Is HP really much of a concern with jointers? I think its kind of like a drill press. HP isn't really a factor in deciding which drill press to buy. With a jointer you will be taking off more wood the wider the jointer is. But you can and do adjust the depth of cut so you are only taking off a tiny tiny tiny amount of wood. And you sneak up on taking off the wood. You don't start taking off a full cut. Now I'm not saying you want an underpowered jointer. But once you get enough HP, its enough. You can then ignore that spec.



I would agree with that analogy. With less HP you can make a shallower
cut or feed slower.

BUT BUT BUT.

If the lower HP jointer has less than 1/2 the amount of teeth I would
think that each tooth is taking a bigger bite. And that could
"Possibly" be "something". LOL

Old style planers essentially had 3~4 blades that cut all across the
board. And that is a bigger hunk of wood being removed with each knife cut.

Yes, but there is always multiple teeth cutting in the helical cutter.
Any "flywheel" effect isn't going to help.

I certainly think this can be "over thought" into indecision.

Isn't that what we're here for?


LOL. I keep forgetting that. Provide as many scenarios as possible.
And add situations that are not pertinent to the issue. ;!)

Seriously, that's about where I am. I was 90% sure the Laguna was the
right way to go but the new, lower end one just isn't going to happen.
Only 20 knives? I don't seen $2800 for the upper model either. The
Powermatic is high, too. Unless something happens, it looks like the
Jet is the better deal. Jet always seems to have a 10% sale going on
so that pays the sales tax and a (very) little.



Well, the Laguna is certainly a more "sexy" looking machine and we all
know that is an important category.. ;!)
I had that to consider between the Jet and the Hammer. So maybe not so
important. ;~)

Then the color, that is going to be as clear as black or white.

Boo! Hiss! You should be punished for that one.
Two birds with one stone....

So with the lower end Laguna with 20 teeth...The upper end with almost
triple the teeth, 54, The Jet falls some where in between
with 36. I think that 20 teeth would be maybe a bit too coarse. I
think feed rate will even out the playing field on all of these models.

My 12" Jet has 56 teeth so the ratio is the same as with the 36 teeth on
the 8" Jet. I can attest that the cut is smooth AND QUIET or should I
say, q u i e t.

BUT with 54 teeth,,,, I would think smoother. But where do you draw the
line? Are you going to apply a finish as the work exits the jointer or
will you finish sand? If you are going to sand I would think the
quality of the cut on the Jet will be fine.

Sand. I have a drum sander so I might just as well use it. Edges
don't get sanded. For joints, that's pretty important. OTOH, the saw
is going to get to the edges anyway.
Me too but I rarely use it after the planer, more for smoothing out BS
rough cut, thicknessing a rough cut.

I do edge sand cabinet doors and drawer fronts.
Now I use the new Festool attachment for that.
Yesterday I edge sanded 16 drawer fronts, twice.

Once for the 90 degree edge and then again for the 45 degree
champher/bevel that I added to the front outside edge on the router table.

The guard might be a consideration but they all appear to be the
American version, pork chop. Oddly I thought the Euro style would be
weird. After using it I prefer it just from the stand point that the
American version slaps the fence every time the work clears.

I can see where the European style would be preferable. I hadn't seen
that before.
I think it is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. I hated the slap
of the pork vchop on my old jointer.

Table height is almost the same for both. The style/thickness of the
soles on the shoes you wear in the shop probably differs more.

Where do you like the switch? It appears that the Jet has dual
positions, high or low.
apparently you get both with the Laguna and the bump bar across the
front. I wonder if that would be an accidental shut down issue. I
often accidentally turn my SawStop off by leaning into the on off switch.

I thought of that for a minute but now that you mention it, it's
probably not a good idea. Turning it off in the middle of a cut
probably wouldn't be good. I also turn off my saw with my hip. It
keeps my hands free and eyes on them.


Table adjustments. That is a big difference between the two.. The
crank on the Laguna will be finer to adjust but slower. The lever on
the Jet is quick but more coarse. With a jointer the fine tune adjust
with the wheels is probably not a factor. And how often will you make
those adjustments once you find the setting that you like.

The Jet JWJ-8HH has cranks. The new Laguna has the levers. I played
with a Powermatic at Woodcraft. I couldn't figure out how to use
them. I got that they moved the table and that twisting them did
something but locking the lever also locked the twist.
I stand corrected. And YES the Powermatic is really strange. It's like
they wanted to be different but not in a good way.

Voltage is the same so you will have to deal with that.

The Laguna is 3 hp, the Jet is 2 hp. 2 is probably going to be plenty.

I have two 20A circuits, one for the DC and the other for the tools
(they aren't going to be used at the same time). A 30A (3HP) circuit
would be a RPITA.
Yes, and why I have a long 10/3 extension cord.

Can you put your hands on one before the purchase. Rockler and
Woodcraft are common stores, maybe not for you, but both carry both
brands. BUT right NOW neither are likely to have one on the floor to
look at. My local Woodcraft store is almost empty of anything that is
not built in the USA.

We have both (two of each, actually). With the shortage of power
tools, no one has anything right now. I'm really not ready to buy
quite yet so maybe the situation will correct itself before I am.
I understand the "over seas" manufacturers production is way down.

Will shipping be a consideration? I had my jointer/planer delivered
into my garage for $25 above purchase price,

Yeah. I'm done moving tools like that in my pickup. I gust about
ruptured a duck getting the lathe from the pickup into the basement. I
would have left it until morning but it was supposed to rain. I
didn't think it would be a good idea.

Is the Laguna mobile? YES, build in wheels.

The old one had fixed wheels. From the ratings it was an issue
moosing it around the shop.

Fixed wheels are better than no wheels but not much... My drum sander
has an enclosed base with fixed wheels. I have managed to place it
against a wall in a location that does not require turning. I pull it
straight out whan I use it and push it straight back in when I'm done.
I'm certain that it is lighter weight than a jointer so turning a
jointer will probably be more troublesome.

I bought the top end Bora mobile base for my 500 lb. jointer/planer.
Each wheel swivels vs the model with only 2 swivel wheels. It actually
glides more easily than my SawStop mobile base, and I thought it was
pretty easy to maneuver. The SawStop will remain in place when elevated
on to the wheels. The jointer will take off towards the garage door
opening, natural slant of the garage floor. I have to keep at least one
of the locking feet at each wheel, 4, locked.

And 4 wheels are probably better than 3.

Well with 3 wheels the equipment is stable, no rocking on an uneven
floor. If there is enough flex in the base 4 wheel works.



I've got my table saw on a one of these bases.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Delta-Un...-345/203293655

I have my DP, bench top sanding station, and router table on those..
With OAK the one under the DP is barely adequate. A lot of flex.



It's fine for straight in and out of it's storage spot, which works for the
vast majority of how I use it, but I have no room for wide sweeping turns.
If I need to move it sideways, I basically have to drag it.

You don't know how to make a 75 point turn? LOL


I really need to add 4 swiveling wheels. The only thing slowing me down is
that changing the height would mean modifying my outfeed table. I mounted
a channel on the back of the saw that the OFT slips into. The far end rests
on my workbench, perfectly level.

My out feed is mounted solely on the TS so no issues. I can even move
the saw with the out feed up and loaded.



It shouldn't *that* hard to fix but one thing always leads to another, so who
knows. (I think the OFT issue is just an excuse)

jointers
 

On 3/16/2021 2:03 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


I've got my table saw on a one of these bases.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Delta-Un...-345/203293655


This one is probably far superior to the one above, for about $10 more.

https://boratool.com/bora-pm-1050-versatile-mobile-base

jointers
 

On 3/16/2021 2:19 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 09:13:51 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/15/2021 8:50 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 09:35:15 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:
...

BUT with 54 teeth,,,, I would think smoother. But where do you draw the
line? Are you going to apply a finish as the work exits the jointer or
will you finish sand? If you are going to sand I would think the
quality of the cut on the Jet will be fine.

Sand. I have a drum sander so I might just as well use it. Edges
don't get sanded. For joints, that's pretty important. OTOH, the saw
is going to get to the edges anyway.

Me too but I rarely use it after the planer, more for smoothing out BS
rough cut, thicknessing a rough cut.

I do edge sand cabinet doors and drawer fronts.
Now I use the new Festool attachment for that.
Yesterday I edge sanded 16 drawer fronts, twice.

My point was the edges need to be quite planar and smooth for gluing.
Using an edge sander may get them smooth but screw up what you just
did on the jointer. IOW, the jointer needs to have a pretty decent
cut, all by itself.

Understood. I previously did not edge sand edges cut on the TS for glue
up. The jointer will probably be used if needed.




Once for the 90 degree edge and then again for the 45 degree
champher/bevel that I added to the front outside edge on the router table.



The guard might be a consideration but they all appear to be the
American version, pork chop. Oddly I thought the Euro style would be
weird. After using it I prefer it just from the stand point that the
American version slaps the fence every time the work clears.

I can see where the European style would be preferable. I hadn't seen
that before.

I think it is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. I hated the slap
of the pork vchop on my old jointer.

I had an old Crapsman. I hated that too. I didn't like using the
machine. It's still holding down the basement floor, getting in my
way. I gotta figure out how to get rid of scrap metal around here.
Our landfill/transfer station's building burned down a couple of years
ago so they closed the whole deal. The alternate is about 40mi and is
run by a different county. I have no idea how to use it, if we even
can. Once I figure it out, my RAS will be traveling with it.

What about scrap metal? Can you sell it for that?



Voltage is the same so you will have to deal with that.

The Laguna is 3 hp, the Jet is 2 hp. 2 is probably going to be plenty.

I have two 20A circuits, one for the DC and the other for the tools
(they aren't going to be used at the same time). A 30A (3HP) circuit
would be a RPITA.

Yes, and why I have a long 10/3 extension cord.

I dislike extension cords with a passion. I'm always tripping on
them. My basement is unfinished so it's possible. The big problem is
the sunken living room in the middle of the house. Getting wires down
to the "sunk" part and back up isn't fun. A pipe, like 10/2, is going
to no fun at all.

Well I would not use extension cords if I did not have to but everything
being mobile and stored mostly against the walls requires that set up.
Most every thing gets moved to the middle of my 3 car garage when I'm
using electrical tools.





Can you put your hands on one before the purchase. Rockler and
Woodcraft are common stores, maybe not for you, but both carry both
brands. BUT right NOW neither are likely to have one on the floor to
look at. My local Woodcraft store is almost empty of anything that is
not built in the USA.

We have both (two of each, actually). With the shortage of power
tools, no one has anything right now. I'm really not ready to buy
quite yet so maybe the situation will correct itself before I am.

I understand the "over seas" manufacturers production is way down.

Everything has been pushed out until summer or late summer. Of course
they want you to order (and pay) now. Don't think that's going to
happen.


Will shipping be a consideration? I had my jointer/planer delivered
into my garage for $25 above purchase price,

Yeah. I'm done moving tools like that in my pickup. I gust about
ruptured a duck getting the lathe from the pickup into the basement. I
would have left it until morning but it was supposed to rain. I
didn't think it would be a good idea.

Is the Laguna mobile? YES, build in wheels.

The old one had fixed wheels. From the ratings it was an issue
moosing it around the shop.


Fixed wheels are better than no wheels but not much... My drum sander
has an enclosed base with fixed wheels. I have managed to place it
against a wall in a location that does not require turning. I pull it
straight out whan I use it and push it straight back in when I'm done.
I'm certain that it is lighter weight than a jointer so turning a
jointer will probably be more troublesome.

My sander has the three-point wheels. It's good enough but takes some
jockeying.

Yes BUT! the 3 wheel bases are stable on an uneven floor. ;~) I was
really concerned about giving up the 3 wheel base for my Jet cabinet saw
and its 50" extension when I got the SawStop with 4 wheel base and
nothing under the 50"+ extension. The extension on the SS simply
floats. It has legs about 1/2" from touching the floor, per SS's
advice. The legs are simply to prevent tipping if you load the
extension up with a lot of weight.



I bought the top end Bora mobile base for my 500 lb. jointer/planer.
Each wheel swivels vs the model with only 2 swivel wheels. It actually
glides more easily than my SawStop mobile base, and I thought it was
pretty easy to maneuver. The SawStop will remain in place when elevated
on to the wheels. The jointer will take off towards the garage door
opening, natural slant of the garage floor. I have to keep at least one
of the locking feet at each wheel, 4, locked.

I bought three of the predecessor to that base. It looks identical,
except that only two of the wheels swivel. Same problem as the
three-point, above. I have one on my DP, which rarely gets moved
(cleaning day) and one on my router table (and the other under a bench
somewhere because Woodcraft was blowing them out, cheap). I wish I'd
gotten the four swivel one. I would have put it on my BS but bought
the ridiculously expensive "mobility kit" instead.


I was considering the 2 swivel but decided that maneuvering with 4
swivels means I can move it in any direction to park, parallel or
perpendicular to a fixed wall or object.

jointers
 

On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 10:47:28 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 19:04:53 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03 wrote:


This might work for me, but I'd have to add the DC port and lose the bag
that I have under my saw now. Not that that would be a bad thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKILf1o7RTY

Perhaps make the lever on the back side rather than the middle? You'd
be able to keep the bag.

That might work but the torque wouldn't be centered. The slide piece would
be off to the side also and the imbalance might be an issue.

I'll watch the video more carefully and see if that will be a problem. It's worth
a test in any case.


I've also seen these on sale for about half what they want he
https://www.woodcraft.com/products/woodriver-retracting-casters

I bought a few of these for work benches for $25 each, IIRC. I
remember that they were really cheap (or I wouldn't have jumped on
them).

Something like those might help, but I think I'd still have 2 fixed wheels.

The way my TS is stored I only have access to 2 sides, the front
(sort of) and the left side. My lift lever is currently on the left side
which allows me to raise the left side of the TS and pull it straight
out. The first 12" of movement has to be straight because the right
side of the saw (the router table end) literally resides in a hole in
the wall.

My shop is in a basement room that was added when an addition
was added on the first floor. When I first moved in, the window
was still in the original exterior wall. Basically an exterior window
between 2 rooms (the shop and the rest of the basement) I took
the window out and boxed in the opening, making a set of recessed
shelves.

The opening, as shown below, is *just* wide enough for my TS to slide
into, giving me a much needed extra foot of space in my small shop.
The lift lever is right below the feather boards.

https://i.imgur.com/F2sD4KY.jpg


https://www.rockler.com/rockler-workbench-caster-kit-4-pack
I have a router table in place of the right side extension wing and a
Delta T2 fence. Just used it all to make a medicine cabinet for the
bathroom re-do.
How do you like the router in the extension table. I always thought
it was a good idea but others say that it's always in the way. They
use both tools often and it's always set up for the wrong one. Having
a good fence on both would be nice too.

I really like it, especially considering the alternative: a portable, set-it-up-every-
time-I-need-it-and-then-it's-too-frigging-high-to-be-used-safely benchtop router
table. BTDT

I don't have room for a permanent floor standing router table nor a permanent
benchtop unit, which is usually a POS anyway. Too small of a table, not sturdy,
etc.

As shown in the image above, mine is the perfect height, as wide as the TS and
deep enough for the things I need it for. It's almost 5" deeper than what you see
in the image because the far end is under a narrow shelf. In addition, the original
extension tables for the Craftsman 113 saws are not flat. There's a 1" border
that's level with the cutting surface, but the whole center of the extension is
recessed by about 3/16". With the router table, my entire surface is completely
flat.

Obviously, the router table can be "in the way" if the bit is above the table or
the fence is installed, but that inconvenience is minor compared to the
convenience of having a decent router table available whenever needed.

Having a good fence on both would be nice too.

The Delta fence (seen hanging on the wall) makes a Craftsman 113 saw a
whole different animal compared to one with the stock fence. You would
not believe how badly the sock fence was designed.

If you look *directly* above the router table end in the hole in the wall, that
black object sitting on a narrow shelf is the back of the router table fence. It's
an old fence from a portable router table. I added "wings" so that I can clamp
it to the TS fence rails. It's obviously not perfect but it provides a dust collection
port, a split sliding face and a T-track for feather boards, etc. It serves my needs.

Just a few minutes ago I used the TS to rip a narrow board and then used the
still-installed beading bit to put a profile on it. Neither fence got in the way of
the other, but obviously that's going to be project specific.

For any one with a small shop that struggles with finding room for both tools,
I wouldn't hesitate to recommend combining them like I did.

jointers
 

On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 10:49:22 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/16/2021 2:03 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 10:14:00 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 3/15/2021 8:50 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 09:35:15 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/14/2021 8:54 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 09:11:21 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/13/2021 1:49 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Mar 2021 09:10:38 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/12/2021 11:54 PM, wrote:
On Friday, March 12, 2021 at 4:28:38 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Laguna finally came out with their new line of jointers. The higher
end 8" helical jointer looks nice but at $2750, I think it's out of my
range. Interestingly, all of the Laguna jointers are parallogram.
There are no more dovetail jointers in their lineup. They have 54
cutters, like Powermatic.

The lower end 8" jointer is very similar (1.5HP vs 1.75HP WOW!) but
only has 20 cutters and goes for $2000. 20 cutters, really? There is
a picture of the cutter head. It looks like a kid missing half its
teeth. https://lagunatools.com/classic/jointers/jx8-eco/ Click on
the plus sign on the safety cover.

It's very different than either the Jet or Powermatic so it's a tough
call.

Is HP really much of a concern with jointers? I think its kind of like a drill press. HP isn't really a factor in deciding which drill press to buy. With a jointer you will be taking off more wood the wider the jointer is. But you can and do adjust the depth of cut so you are only taking off a tiny tiny tiny amount of wood. And you sneak up on taking off the wood. You don't start taking off a full cut. Now I'm not saying you want an underpowered jointer. But once you get enough HP, its enough. You can then ignore that spec.



I would agree with that analogy. With less HP you can make a shallower
cut or feed slower.

BUT BUT BUT.

If the lower HP jointer has less than 1/2 the amount of teeth I would
think that each tooth is taking a bigger bite. And that could
"Possibly" be "something". LOL

Old style planers essentially had 3~4 blades that cut all across the
board. And that is a bigger hunk of wood being removed with each knife cut.

Yes, but there is always multiple teeth cutting in the helical cutter.
Any "flywheel" effect isn't going to help.

I certainly think this can be "over thought" into indecision.

Isn't that what we're here for?


LOL. I keep forgetting that. Provide as many scenarios as possible.
And add situations that are not pertinent to the issue. ;!)

Seriously, that's about where I am. I was 90% sure the Laguna was the
right way to go but the new, lower end one just isn't going to happen.
Only 20 knives? I don't seen $2800 for the upper model either. The
Powermatic is high, too. Unless something happens, it looks like the
Jet is the better deal. Jet always seems to have a 10% sale going on
so that pays the sales tax and a (very) little.



Well, the Laguna is certainly a more "sexy" looking machine and we all
know that is an important category.. ;!)
I had that to consider between the Jet and the Hammer. So maybe not so
important. ;~)

Then the color, that is going to be as clear as black or white.

Boo! Hiss! You should be punished for that one.
Two birds with one stone....

So with the lower end Laguna with 20 teeth...The upper end with almost
triple the teeth, 54, The Jet falls some where in between
with 36. I think that 20 teeth would be maybe a bit too coarse. I
think feed rate will even out the playing field on all of these models.

My 12" Jet has 56 teeth so the ratio is the same as with the 36 teeth on
the 8" Jet. I can attest that the cut is smooth AND QUIET or should I
say, q u i e t.

BUT with 54 teeth,,,, I would think smoother. But where do you draw the
line? Are you going to apply a finish as the work exits the jointer or
will you finish sand? If you are going to sand I would think the
quality of the cut on the Jet will be fine.

Sand. I have a drum sander so I might just as well use it. Edges
don't get sanded. For joints, that's pretty important. OTOH, the saw
is going to get to the edges anyway.
Me too but I rarely use it after the planer, more for smoothing out BS
rough cut, thicknessing a rough cut.

I do edge sand cabinet doors and drawer fronts.
Now I use the new Festool attachment for that.
Yesterday I edge sanded 16 drawer fronts, twice.

Once for the 90 degree edge and then again for the 45 degree
champher/bevel that I added to the front outside edge on the router table.

The guard might be a consideration but they all appear to be the
American version, pork chop. Oddly I thought the Euro style would be
weird. After using it I prefer it just from the stand point that the
American version slaps the fence every time the work clears.

I can see where the European style would be preferable. I hadn't seen
that before.
I think it is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. I hated the slap
of the pork vchop on my old jointer.

Table height is almost the same for both. The style/thickness of the
soles on the shoes you wear in the shop probably differs more.

Where do you like the switch? It appears that the Jet has dual
positions, high or low.
apparently you get both with the Laguna and the bump bar across the
front. I wonder if that would be an accidental shut down issue. I
often accidentally turn my SawStop off by leaning into the on off switch.

I thought of that for a minute but now that you mention it, it's
probably not a good idea. Turning it off in the middle of a cut
probably wouldn't be good. I also turn off my saw with my hip. It
keeps my hands free and eyes on them.


Table adjustments. That is a big difference between the two.. The
crank on the Laguna will be finer to adjust but slower. The lever on
the Jet is quick but more coarse. With a jointer the fine tune adjust
with the wheels is probably not a factor. And how often will you make
those adjustments once you find the setting that you like.

The Jet JWJ-8HH has cranks. The new Laguna has the levers. I played
with a Powermatic at Woodcraft. I couldn't figure out how to use
them. I got that they moved the table and that twisting them did
something but locking the lever also locked the twist.
I stand corrected. And YES the Powermatic is really strange. It's like
they wanted to be different but not in a good way.

Voltage is the same so you will have to deal with that.

The Laguna is 3 hp, the Jet is 2 hp. 2 is probably going to be plenty.

I have two 20A circuits, one for the DC and the other for the tools
(they aren't going to be used at the same time). A 30A (3HP) circuit
would be a RPITA.
Yes, and why I have a long 10/3 extension cord.

Can you put your hands on one before the purchase. Rockler and
Woodcraft are common stores, maybe not for you, but both carry both
brands. BUT right NOW neither are likely to have one on the floor to
look at. My local Woodcraft store is almost empty of anything that is
not built in the USA.

We have both (two of each, actually). With the shortage of power
tools, no one has anything right now. I'm really not ready to buy
quite yet so maybe the situation will correct itself before I am.
I understand the "over seas" manufacturers production is way down.

Will shipping be a consideration? I had my jointer/planer delivered
into my garage for $25 above purchase price,

Yeah. I'm done moving tools like that in my pickup. I gust about
ruptured a duck getting the lathe from the pickup into the basement. I
would have left it until morning but it was supposed to rain. I
didn't think it would be a good idea.

Is the Laguna mobile? YES, build in wheels.

The old one had fixed wheels. From the ratings it was an issue
moosing it around the shop.

Fixed wheels are better than no wheels but not much... My drum sander
has an enclosed base with fixed wheels. I have managed to place it
against a wall in a location that does not require turning. I pull it
straight out whan I use it and push it straight back in when I'm done.
I'm certain that it is lighter weight than a jointer so turning a
jointer will probably be more troublesome.

I bought the top end Bora mobile base for my 500 lb. jointer/planer.
Each wheel swivels vs the model with only 2 swivel wheels. It actually
glides more easily than my SawStop mobile base, and I thought it was
pretty easy to maneuver. The SawStop will remain in place when elevated
on to the wheels. The jointer will take off towards the garage door
opening, natural slant of the garage floor. I have to keep at least one
of the locking feet at each wheel, 4, locked.

And 4 wheels are probably better than 3.

Well with 3 wheels the equipment is stable, no rocking on an uneven
floor. If there is enough flex in the base 4 wheel works.

Not so fast. It's three wheels but four pads, the worst of both
worlds. The triangle under the three wheels doesn't have the same
base lines so a top-heavy machine is in much worse shape. A widget
will fall once it's center of gravity moves outside it's base in any
direction. The square layout of the "adjustment" pads makes it rock
on uneven floors. While the four-point adjustment pads can adjust,
the wheels allow the tool to move so adjusting is a useless exercise
in frustration.


I've got my table saw on a one of these bases.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Delta-Un...-345/203293655

I have my DP, bench top sanding station, and router table on those..
With OAK the one under the DP is barely adequate. A lot of flex.

Now put a 500# bandsaw on one. Tiimmmbeeerrrrr!


It's fine for straight in and out of it's storage spot, which works for the
vast majority of how I use it, but I have no room for wide sweeping turns.
If I need to move it sideways, I basically have to drag it.

You don't know how to make a 75 point turn? LOL

What's the point?


I really need to add 4 swiveling wheels. The only thing slowing me down is
that changing the height would mean modifying my outfeed table. I mounted
a channel on the back of the saw that the OFT slips into. The far end rests
on my workbench, perfectly level.

My out feed is mounted solely on the TS so no issues. I can even move
the saw with the out feed up and loaded.

The room my TS is in is rather cramped (TS, BS, DP, upright cabinets,
and cutting table (i.e. track saw) so I have one of these for an
outfeed table:
https://www.kregtool.com/shop/workspace/bench-systems/

It's on four locking swivel casters so I can move it out of the way
easily. The only problem is the TS's dust collector hose has to go
between its legs, so it is somewhat of a pain to move.

It shouldn't *that* hard to fix but one thing always leads to another, so who
knows. (I think the OFT issue is just an excuse)

jointers
 

On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 10:55:34 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/16/2021 2:03 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


I've got my table saw on a one of these bases.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Delta-Un...-345/203293655


This one is probably far superior to the one above, for about $10 more.

https://boratool.com/bora-pm-1050-versatile-mobile-base

Woodcraft was blowing these out for $50 (I bought all three).

https://boratool.com/portamate-pm-3500-super-duty-adjustable-mobile-base

I'm a sucker for sales. I bought the two walnut 30"x60"x1.5" butcher
blocks they were dumping for $200 each, too.

jointers
 

On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 11:36:04 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 10:47:28 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 19:04:53 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03 wrote:


This might work for me, but I'd have to add the DC port and lose the bag
that I have under my saw now. Not that that would be a bad thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKILf1o7RTY

Perhaps make the lever on the back side rather than the middle? You'd
be able to keep the bag.

That might work but the torque wouldn't be centered. The slide piece would
be off to the side also and the imbalance might be an issue.

I'll watch the video more carefully and see if that will be a problem. It's worth
a test in any case.


I've also seen these on sale for about half what they want he
https://www.woodcraft.com/products/woodriver-retracting-casters

I bought a few of these for work benches for $25 each, IIRC. I
remember that they were really cheap (or I wouldn't have jumped on
them).

Something like those might help, but I think I'd still have 2 fixed wheels.

The way my TS is stored I only have access to 2 sides, the front
(sort of) and the left side. My lift lever is currently on the left side
which allows me to raise the left side of the TS and pull it straight
out. The first 12" of movement has to be straight because the right
side of the saw (the router table end) literally resides in a hole in
the wall.

That brings up a point that I wanted to make about the Bora bases.
Mine, at least, has the lift levers in the front and a flange that
mounts the wheels higher (axles tend to be at the center of wheels)
than the frame. These make for great trip hazards. This is another
reason to off-center the lift lever in the home-grown design we were
discussing.

My shop is in a basement room that was added when an addition
was added on the first floor. When I first moved in, the window
was still in the original exterior wall. Basically an exterior window
between 2 rooms (the shop and the rest of the basement) I took
the window out and boxed in the opening, making a set of recessed
shelves.

The opening, as shown below, is *just* wide enough for my TS to slide
into, giving me a much needed extra foot of space in my small shop.
The lift lever is right below the feather boards.

https://i.imgur.com/F2sD4KY.jpg


Interesting use of space.

https://www.rockler.com/rockler-workbench-caster-kit-4-pack
I have a router table in place of the right side extension wing and a
Delta T2 fence. Just used it all to make a medicine cabinet for the
bathroom re-do.
How do you like the router in the extension table. I always thought
it was a good idea but others say that it's always in the way. They
use both tools often and it's always set up for the wrong one. Having
a good fence on both would be nice too.

I really like it, especially considering the alternative: a portable, set-it-up-every-
time-I-need-it-and-then-it's-too-frigging-high-to-be-used-safely benchtop router
table. BTDT

I know what you mean. I had a router table that went with my original
"X-Acta" lift, which was an early (early) rebadged JessEm, I think. It
has to be 20 years old. Anyway, it came with a chest-high table.

I don't have room for a permanent floor standing router table nor a permanent
benchtop unit, which is usually a POS anyway. Too small of a table, not sturdy,
etc.
Agreed. I won one at as a door prize at Highland a few years ago. It
was a nice one but I gave it to a friend. It might have been useful
as a portable but would just take more space than it was worth. He
didn't have a table, so...

As shown in the image above, mine is the perfect height, as wide as the TS and
deep enough for the things I need it for. It's almost 5" deeper than what you see
in the image because the far end is under a narrow shelf. In addition, the original
extension tables for the Craftsman 113 saws are not flat. There's a 1" border
that's level with the cutting surface, but the whole center of the extension is
recessed by about 3/16". With the router table, my entire surface is completely
flat.
Yes, I see. Did you make the table? How hard was it to mount to the
saw? It can't be supported on the base, so is it just hanging there?

My father had a craftsman 60+ years ago. It had the cast iron web
extension tables (double). It also had the finger-killer motor,
exposed, hanging off the back. Those were the days that one was
expected to know that table saws were dangerous. Bubble wrap hadn't
been invented yet so mothers hadn't started wrapping kids in it from
birth.

Obviously, the router table can be "in the way" if the bit is above the table or
the fence is installed, but that inconvenience is minor compared to the
convenience of having a decent router table available whenever needed.

It the blade up, though I don't leave the blade up unless I'm using
the saw. I'd have thought you'd use the TS fence for both.

Having a good fence on both would be nice too.

The Delta fence (seen hanging on the wall) makes a Craftsman 113 saw a
whole different animal compared to one with the stock fence. You would
not believe how badly the sock fence was designed.

I know what you mean. I always thought a fence grabbing in the front
and back was a good idea and that the fence twisting every time it was
tightened was a feature. FEnces clamping at one end wouldn't be
strong enough. Then I figured out that you're not supposed to hang on
the fence.

If you look *directly* above the router table end in the hole in the wall, that
black object sitting on a narrow shelf is the back of the router table fence. It's
an old fence from a portable router table. I added "wings" so that I can clamp
it to the TS fence rails. It's obviously not perfect but it provides a dust collection
port, a split sliding face and a T-track for feather boards, etc. It serves my needs.

I thought you'd just get one of these:
https://incra.com/table_saw_fences-tsls_combos.html ;-)

Just a few minutes ago I used the TS to rip a narrow board and then used the
still-installed beading bit to put a profile on it. Neither fence got in the way of
the other, but obviously that's going to be project specific.

For any one with a small shop that struggles with finding room for both tools,
I wouldn't hesitate to recommend combining them like I did.

I was considering it some time ago before we bought this house. It's
still an idea because of the stability and accuracy of the saw table.
My saw has 52" rails so it's not small. A router at the end wouldn't
completely block the saw. I rarely (never?) use anywhere near the
width of the saw anymore. I could probably ditch the table and not
miss it at all. The rails would be a jewel killers though.

jointers
 

jointers
 

On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 11:09:04 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/16/2021 2:19 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 09:13:51 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:
...
I had an old Crapsman. I hated that too. I didn't like using the
machine. It's still holding down the basement floor, getting in my
way. I gotta figure out how to get rid of scrap metal around here.
Our landfill/transfer station's building burned down a couple of years
ago so they closed the whole deal. The alternate is about 40mi and is
run by a different county. I have no idea how to use it, if we even
can. Once I figure it out, my RAS will be traveling with it.

What about scrap metal? Can you sell it for that?

Not sure where. I'd do it. Foisting that junk on a would-be
woodworker wouldn't be fair to woodworking.


Voltage is the same so you will have to deal with that.

The Laguna is 3 hp, the Jet is 2 hp. 2 is probably going to be plenty.

I have two 20A circuits, one for the DC and the other for the tools
(they aren't going to be used at the same time). A 30A (3HP) circuit
would be a RPITA.

Yes, and why I have a long 10/3 extension cord.

I dislike extension cords with a passion. I'm always tripping on
them. My basement is unfinished so it's possible. The big problem is
the sunken living room in the middle of the house. Getting wires down
to the "sunk" part and back up isn't fun. A pipe, like 10/2, is going
to no fun at all.

Well I would not use extension cords if I did not have to but everything
being mobile and stored mostly against the walls requires that set up.
Most every thing gets moved to the middle of my 3 car garage when I'm
using electrical tools.

Except for my TS, all of my tools are stored against the wall. Of
course, that's where they're used too. I'm just adding a couple more
240V outlets to the chain for the lathe and something else (sander or
jointer). Hmm, maybe I should put one on the opposite wall, before I
close up the wall they're on now. More mission creep.


Can you put your hands on one before the purchase. Rockler and
Woodcraft are common stores, maybe not for you, but both carry both
brands. BUT right NOW neither are likely to have one on the floor to
look at. My local Woodcraft store is almost empty of anything that is
not built in the USA.

We have both (two of each, actually). With the shortage of power
tools, no one has anything right now. I'm really not ready to buy
quite yet so maybe the situation will correct itself before I am.

I understand the "over seas" manufacturers production is way down.

Everything has been pushed out until summer or late summer. Of course
they want you to order (and pay) now. Don't think that's going to
happen.


Will shipping be a consideration? I had my jointer/planer delivered
into my garage for $25 above purchase price,

Yeah. I'm done moving tools like that in my pickup. I gust about
ruptured a duck getting the lathe from the pickup into the basement. I
would have left it until morning but it was supposed to rain. I
didn't think it would be a good idea.

Is the Laguna mobile? YES, build in wheels.

The old one had fixed wheels. From the ratings it was an issue
moosing it around the shop.


Fixed wheels are better than no wheels but not much... My drum sander
has an enclosed base with fixed wheels. I have managed to place it
against a wall in a location that does not require turning. I pull it
straight out whan I use it and push it straight back in when I'm done.
I'm certain that it is lighter weight than a jointer so turning a
jointer will probably be more troublesome.

My sander has the three-point wheels. It's good enough but takes some
jockeying.

Yes BUT! the 3 wheel bases are stable on an uneven floor. ;~) I was
really concerned about giving up the 3 wheel base for my Jet cabinet saw
and its 50" extension when I got the SawStop with 4 wheel base and
nothing under the 50"+ extension. The extension on the SS simply
floats. It has legs about 1/2" from touching the floor, per SS's
advice. The legs are simply to prevent tipping if you load the
extension up with a lot of weight.



I bought the top end Bora mobile base for my 500 lb. jointer/planer.
Each wheel swivels vs the model with only 2 swivel wheels. It actually
glides more easily than my SawStop mobile base, and I thought it was
pretty easy to maneuver. The SawStop will remain in place when elevated
on to the wheels. The jointer will take off towards the garage door
opening, natural slant of the garage floor. I have to keep at least one
of the locking feet at each wheel, 4, locked.

I bought three of the predecessor to that base. It looks identical,
except that only two of the wheels swivel. Same problem as the
three-point, above. I have one on my DP, which rarely gets moved
(cleaning day) and one on my router table (and the other under a bench
somewhere because Woodcraft was blowing them out, cheap). I wish I'd
gotten the four swivel one. I would have put it on my BS but bought
the ridiculously expensive "mobility kit" instead.

BTW, the "mobility kit" for the lathe was $500. Yes, halfa-grand!
It's a little heavy to move. It is a wonder to behold though. A
marvel of over-engineering.

The crappy kit for the bandsaw was $150, IIRC. It works but the rear
wheels and axle are really cheezy for that kind of money.

I have a hoist fixed in one spot so after assembly everything has to
move into its place. I'm alone and not about to lift these things
without some serious mechanical advantage.

My house is built with "engineered" beams so won't take anything
heavier than a light fixture hanging from them. I had to find
somewhere that wires didn't interfere too badly and build a beam
between walls at that spot to support a hoist. That spot is right
behind my saw so everything moves.

BTW, I used the Sagulator to design the beam(s). .25" deflection at
1000lbs, center concentrated, between walls 13' apart.

I was considering the 2 swivel but decided that maneuvering with 4
swivels means I can move it in any direction to park, parallel or
perpendicular to a fixed wall or object.

Yes, but I think that one had just hit the market so they were blowing
out the older ones for $50. I thought I could live with it.

jointers
 

On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 21:34:55 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

writes:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 11:36:04 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

My father had a craftsman 60+ years ago. It had the cast iron web
extension tables (double). It also had the finger-killer motor,
exposed, hanging off the back. Those were the days that one was
expected to know that table saws were dangerous. Bubble wrap hadn't
been invented yet so mothers hadn't started wrapping kids in it from
birth.

Yeah, everyone should be short a finger or two.

Sure, accidents never happen, so there is no point attempting
to prevent them.

Were you allowed to play in the park? I'm sure she'd be horrified if
you played in the dirt. "You don't know who was there last!".
Sheesh!

jointers
 

On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 5:24:41 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 11:36:04 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 10:47:28 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 19:04:53 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03 wrote:


This might work for me, but I'd have to add the DC port and lose the bag
that I have under my saw now. Not that that would be a bad thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKILf1o7RTY

Perhaps make the lever on the back side rather than the middle? You'd
be able to keep the bag.

That might work but the torque wouldn't be centered. The slide piece would
be off to the side also and the imbalance might be an issue.

I'll watch the video more carefully and see if that will be a problem. It's worth
a test in any case.


I've also seen these on sale for about half what they want he
https://www.woodcraft.com/products/woodriver-retracting-casters

I bought a few of these for work benches for $25 each, IIRC. I
remember that they were really cheap (or I wouldn't have jumped on
them).

Something like those might help, but I think I'd still have 2 fixed wheels.

The way my TS is stored I only have access to 2 sides, the front
(sort of) and the left side. My lift lever is currently on the left side
which allows me to raise the left side of the TS and pull it straight
out. The first 12" of movement has to be straight because the right
side of the saw (the router table end) literally resides in a hole in
the wall.
That brings up a point that I wanted to make about the Bora bases.
Mine, at least, has the lift levers in the front and a flange that
mounts the wheels higher (axles tend to be at the center of wheels)
than the frame. These make for great trip hazards. This is another
reason to off-center the lift lever in the home-grown design we were
discussing.

My shop is in a basement room that was added when an addition
was added on the first floor. When I first moved in, the window
was still in the original exterior wall. Basically an exterior window
between 2 rooms (the shop and the rest of the basement) I took
the window out and boxed in the opening, making a set of recessed
shelves.

The opening, as shown below, is *just* wide enough for my TS to slide
into, giving me a much needed extra foot of space in my small shop.
The lift lever is right below the feather boards.

https://i.imgur.com/F2sD4KY.jpg

Interesting use of space.

I got lucky with the TS and Delta fence. It's so tight there are grooves in
the plywood side walls of that hole in the wall. The TS just fits.


https://www.rockler.com/rockler-workbench-caster-kit-4-pack
I have a router table in place of the right side extension wing and a
Delta T2 fence. Just used it all to make a medicine cabinet for the
bathroom re-do.
How do you like the router in the extension table. I always thought
it was a good idea but others say that it's always in the way. They
use both tools often and it's always set up for the wrong one. Having
a good fence on both would be nice too.

I really like it, especially considering the alternative: a portable, set-it-up-every-
time-I-need-it-and-then-it's-too-frigging-high-to-be-used-safely benchtop router
table. BTDT
I know what you mean. I had a router table that went with my original
"X-Acta" lift, which was an early (early) rebadged JessEm, I think. It
has to be 20 years old. Anyway, it came with a chest-high table.

I don't have room for a permanent floor standing router table nor a permanent
benchtop unit, which is usually a POS anyway. Too small of a table, not sturdy,
etc.
Agreed. I won one at as a door prize at Highland a few years ago. It
was a nice one but I gave it to a friend. It might have been useful
as a portable but would just take more space than it was worth. He
didn't have a table, so...
As shown in the image above, mine is the perfect height, as wide as the TS and
deep enough for the things I need it for. It's almost 5" deeper than what you see
in the image because the far end is under a narrow shelf. In addition, the original
extension tables for the Craftsman 113 saws are not flat. There's a 1" border
that's level with the cutting surface, but the whole center of the extension is
recessed by about 3/16". With the router table, my entire surface is completely
flat.
Yes, I see. Did you make the table? How hard was it to mount to the
saw? It can't be supported on the base, so is it just hanging there?

Yes, I made it. It's a piece of melamine pocket-screwed to a 1 x 4 frame.

The frame is bolted to the edge of the TS and the rails of the Delta TS fence. It's
well supported on 3 sides. I could probably stand on it.


My father had a craftsman 60+ years ago. It had the cast iron web
extension tables (double). It also had the finger-killer motor,
exposed, hanging off the back.

I've seen the web extension tables. Mine are the stamped steel style.
I still have 'em stashed in the basement. No idea why. Hoard much?

Same exposed motor. Never knew it was dangerous. Can't say that
I'm pleased that you told me. :-0

Those were the days that one was
expected to know that table saws were dangerous. Bubble wrap hadn't
been invented yet so mothers hadn't started wrapping kids in it from
birth.
Obviously, the router table can be "in the way" if the bit is above the table or
the fence is installed, but that inconvenience is minor compared to the
convenience of having a decent router table available whenever needed.
It the blade up, though I don't leave the blade up unless I'm using
the saw. I'd have thought you'd use the TS fence for both.

I rarely leave the blade up myself. Table saw, router table and very often
an extra work surface.

Don't see why I'd use the TS fence for the RT. I'd have to rig up dust collection,
a split fence, T-track, etc. I've got that all in the fence I have now. I keep
thinking about changing the wings to something that would actually use the
rails so I could lose the clamps, but I'm in no hurry.


Having a good fence on both would be nice too.

The Delta fence (seen hanging on the wall) makes a Craftsman 113 saw a
whole different animal compared to one with the stock fence. You would
not believe how badly the sock fence was designed.
I know what you mean. I always thought a fence grabbing in the front
and back was a good idea and that the fence twisting every time it was
tightened was a feature. FEnces clamping at one end wouldn't be
strong enough. Then I figured out that you're not supposed to hang on
the fence.
If you look *directly* above the router table end in the hole in the wall, that
black object sitting on a narrow shelf is the back of the router table fence. It's
an old fence from a portable router table. I added "wings" so that I can clamp
it to the TS fence rails. It's obviously not perfect but it provides a dust collection
port, a split sliding face and a T-track for feather boards, etc. It serves my needs.
I thought you'd just get one of these:
https://incra.com/table_saw_fences-tsls_combos.html ;-)
Just a few minutes ago I used the TS to rip a narrow board and then used the
still-installed beading bit to put a profile on it. Neither fence got in the way of
the other, but obviously that's going to be project specific.

For any one with a small shop that struggles with finding room for both tools,
I wouldn't hesitate to recommend combining them like I did.
I was considering it some time ago before we bought this house. It's
still an idea because of the stability and accuracy of the saw table.
My saw has 52" rails so it's not small. A router at the end wouldn't
completely block the saw. I rarely (never?) use anywhere near the
width of the saw anymore. I could probably ditch the table and not
miss it at all. The rails would be a jewel killers though.

jointers
 

On 3/17/2021 3:25 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 10:49:22 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/16/2021 2:03 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 10:14:00 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 3/15/2021 8:50 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 09:35:15 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/14/2021 8:54 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 09:11:21 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/13/2021 1:49 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Mar 2021 09:10:38 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/12/2021 11:54 PM, wrote:
On Friday, March 12, 2021 at 4:28:38 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Laguna finally came out with their new line of jointers. The higher
end 8" helical jointer looks nice but at $2750, I think it's out of my
range. Interestingly, all of the Laguna jointers are parallogram.
There are no more dovetail jointers in their lineup. They have 54
cutters, like Powermatic.

The lower end 8" jointer is very similar (1.5HP vs 1.75HP WOW!) but
only has 20 cutters and goes for $2000. 20 cutters, really? There is
a picture of the cutter head. It looks like a kid missing half its
teeth. https://lagunatools.com/classic/jointers/jx8-eco/ Click on
the plus sign on the safety cover.

It's very different than either the Jet or Powermatic so it's a tough
call.

Is HP really much of a concern with jointers? I think its kind of like a drill press. HP isn't really a factor in deciding which drill press to buy. With a jointer you will be taking off more wood the wider the jointer is. But you can and do adjust the depth of cut so you are only taking off a tiny tiny tiny amount of wood. And you sneak up on taking off the wood. You don't start taking off a full cut. Now I'm not saying you want an underpowered jointer. But once you get enough HP, its enough. You can then ignore that spec.



I would agree with that analogy. With less HP you can make a shallower
cut or feed slower.

BUT BUT BUT.

If the lower HP jointer has less than 1/2 the amount of teeth I would
think that each tooth is taking a bigger bite. And that could
"Possibly" be "something". LOL

Old style planers essentially had 3~4 blades that cut all across the
board. And that is a bigger hunk of wood being removed with each knife cut.

Yes, but there is always multiple teeth cutting in the helical cutter.
Any "flywheel" effect isn't going to help.

I certainly think this can be "over thought" into indecision.

Isn't that what we're here for?


LOL. I keep forgetting that. Provide as many scenarios as possible.
And add situations that are not pertinent to the issue. ;!)

Seriously, that's about where I am. I was 90% sure the Laguna was the
right way to go but the new, lower end one just isn't going to happen.
Only 20 knives? I don't seen $2800 for the upper model either. The
Powermatic is high, too. Unless something happens, it looks like the
Jet is the better deal. Jet always seems to have a 10% sale going on
so that pays the sales tax and a (very) little.



Well, the Laguna is certainly a more "sexy" looking machine and we all
know that is an important category.. ;!)
I had that to consider between the Jet and the Hammer. So maybe not so
important. ;~)

Then the color, that is going to be as clear as black or white.

Boo! Hiss! You should be punished for that one.
Two birds with one stone....

So with the lower end Laguna with 20 teeth...The upper end with almost
triple the teeth, 54, The Jet falls some where in between
with 36. I think that 20 teeth would be maybe a bit too coarse. I
think feed rate will even out the playing field on all of these models.

My 12" Jet has 56 teeth so the ratio is the same as with the 36 teeth on
the 8" Jet. I can attest that the cut is smooth AND QUIET or should I
say, q u i e t.

BUT with 54 teeth,,,, I would think smoother. But where do you draw the
line? Are you going to apply a finish as the work exits the jointer or
will you finish sand? If you are going to sand I would think the
quality of the cut on the Jet will be fine.

Sand. I have a drum sander so I might just as well use it. Edges
don't get sanded. For joints, that's pretty important. OTOH, the saw
is going to get to the edges anyway.
Me too but I rarely use it after the planer, more for smoothing out BS
rough cut, thicknessing a rough cut.

I do edge sand cabinet doors and drawer fronts.
Now I use the new Festool attachment for that.
Yesterday I edge sanded 16 drawer fronts, twice.

Once for the 90 degree edge and then again for the 45 degree
champher/bevel that I added to the front outside edge on the router table.

The guard might be a consideration but they all appear to be the
American version, pork chop. Oddly I thought the Euro style would be
weird. After using it I prefer it just from the stand point that the
American version slaps the fence every time the work clears.

I can see where the European style would be preferable. I hadn't seen
that before.
I think it is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. I hated the slap
of the pork vchop on my old jointer.

Table height is almost the same for both. The style/thickness of the
soles on the shoes you wear in the shop probably differs more.

Where do you like the switch? It appears that the Jet has dual
positions, high or low.
apparently you get both with the Laguna and the bump bar across the
front. I wonder if that would be an accidental shut down issue. I
often accidentally turn my SawStop off by leaning into the on off switch.

I thought of that for a minute but now that you mention it, it's
probably not a good idea. Turning it off in the middle of a cut
probably wouldn't be good. I also turn off my saw with my hip. It
keeps my hands free and eyes on them.


Table adjustments. That is a big difference between the two.. The
crank on the Laguna will be finer to adjust but slower. The lever on
the Jet is quick but more coarse. With a jointer the fine tune adjust
with the wheels is probably not a factor. And how often will you make
those adjustments once you find the setting that you like.

The Jet JWJ-8HH has cranks. The new Laguna has the levers. I played
with a Powermatic at Woodcraft. I couldn't figure out how to use
them. I got that they moved the table and that twisting them did
something but locking the lever also locked the twist.
I stand corrected. And YES the Powermatic is really strange. It's like
they wanted to be different but not in a good way.

Voltage is the same so you will have to deal with that.

The Laguna is 3 hp, the Jet is 2 hp. 2 is probably going to be plenty.

I have two 20A circuits, one for the DC and the other for the tools
(they aren't going to be used at the same time). A 30A (3HP) circuit
would be a RPITA.
Yes, and why I have a long 10/3 extension cord.

Can you put your hands on one before the purchase. Rockler and
Woodcraft are common stores, maybe not for you, but both carry both
brands. BUT right NOW neither are likely to have one on the floor to
look at. My local Woodcraft store is almost empty of anything that is
not built in the USA.

We have both (two of each, actually). With the shortage of power
tools, no one has anything right now. I'm really not ready to buy
quite yet so maybe the situation will correct itself before I am.
I understand the "over seas" manufacturers production is way down.

Will shipping be a consideration? I had my jointer/planer delivered
into my garage for $25 above purchase price,

Yeah. I'm done moving tools like that in my pickup. I gust about
ruptured a duck getting the lathe from the pickup into the basement. I
would have left it until morning but it was supposed to rain. I
didn't think it would be a good idea.

Is the Laguna mobile? YES, build in wheels.

The old one had fixed wheels. From the ratings it was an issue
moosing it around the shop.

Fixed wheels are better than no wheels but not much... My drum sander
has an enclosed base with fixed wheels. I have managed to place it
against a wall in a location that does not require turning. I pull it
straight out whan I use it and push it straight back in when I'm done.
I'm certain that it is lighter weight than a jointer so turning a
jointer will probably be more troublesome.

I bought the top end Bora mobile base for my 500 lb. jointer/planer.
Each wheel swivels vs the model with only 2 swivel wheels. It actually
glides more easily than my SawStop mobile base, and I thought it was
pretty easy to maneuver. The SawStop will remain in place when elevated
on to the wheels. The jointer will take off towards the garage door
opening, natural slant of the garage floor. I have to keep at least one
of the locking feet at each wheel, 4, locked.

And 4 wheels are probably better than 3.

Well with 3 wheels the equipment is stable, no rocking on an uneven
floor. If there is enough flex in the base 4 wheel works.

Not so fast. It's three wheels but four pads, the worst of both
worlds. The triangle under the three wheels doesn't have the same
base lines so a top-heavy machine is in much worse shape. A widget
will fall once it's center of gravity moves outside it's base in any
direction. The square layout of the "adjustment" pads makes it rock
on uneven floors. While the four-point adjustment pads can adjust,
the wheels allow the tool to move so adjusting is a useless exercise
in frustration.


I've got my table saw on a one of these bases.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Delta-Un...-345/203293655

I have my DP, bench top sanding station, and router table on those..
With OAK the one under the DP is barely adequate. A lot of flex.

Now put a 500# bandsaw on one. Tiimmmbeeerrrrr!


It's fine for straight in and out of it's storage spot, which works for the
vast majority of how I use it, but I have no room for wide sweeping turns.
If I need to move it sideways, I basically have to drag it.

You don't know how to make a 75 point turn? LOL

What's the point?


I really need to add 4 swiveling wheels. The only thing slowing me down is
that changing the height would mean modifying my outfeed table. I mounted
a channel on the back of the saw that the OFT slips into. The far end rests
on my workbench, perfectly level.

My out feed is mounted solely on the TS so no issues. I can even move
the saw with the out feed up and loaded.

The room my TS is in is rather cramped (TS, BS, DP, upright cabinets,
and cutting table (i.e. track saw) so I have one of these for an
outfeed table:
https://www.kregtool.com/shop/workspace/bench-systems/

I used this on my old Jet cabinet saw and Now on my SawStop. For me It
is perfect. I never have to put it down to move the saw, it is always
on the same plane as the TS top as it is mounted directly to the saw and
takes up little room when folded down.

WOW have those things gone up!!! I paid $250 the first time 22 years
ago and about $300 8 years ago.

https://www.woodcraft.com/products/h...hoCCAQQAvD_BwE





It's on four locking swivel casters so I can move it out of the way
easily. The only problem is the TS's dust collector hose has to go
between its legs, so it is somewhat of a pain to move.

It shouldn't *that* hard to fix but one thing always leads to another, so who
knows. (I think the OFT issue is just an excuse)

jointers
 

On 3/17/2021 3:38 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 10:55:34 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/16/2021 2:03 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


I've got my table saw on a one of these bases.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Delta-Un...-345/203293655


This one is probably far superior to the one above, for about $10 more.

https://boratool.com/bora-pm-1050-versatile-mobile-base

Woodcraft was blowing these out for $50 (I bought all three).

You would not have had I been in line ahead of you. ;~)


https://boratool.com/portamate-pm-3500-super-duty-adjustable-mobile-base

I'm a sucker for sales. I bought the two walnut 30"x60"x1.5" butcher
blocks they were dumping for $200 each, too.

jointers
 

On 3/17/2021 4:24 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 11:36:04 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 10:47:28 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 19:04:53 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03 wrote:


This might work for me, but I'd have to add the DC port and lose the bag
that I have under my saw now. Not that that would be a bad thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKILf1o7RTY

Perhaps make the lever on the back side rather than the middle? You'd
be able to keep the bag.

That might work but the torque wouldn't be centered. The slide piece would
be off to the side also and the imbalance might be an issue.

I'll watch the video more carefully and see if that will be a problem. It's worth
a test in any case.


I've also seen these on sale for about half what they want he
https://www.woodcraft.com/products/woodriver-retracting-casters

I bought a few of these for work benches for $25 each, IIRC. I
remember that they were really cheap (or I wouldn't have jumped on
them).

Something like those might help, but I think I'd still have 2 fixed wheels.

The way my TS is stored I only have access to 2 sides, the front
(sort of) and the left side. My lift lever is currently on the left side
which allows me to raise the left side of the TS and pull it straight
out. The first 12" of movement has to be straight because the right
side of the saw (the router table end) literally resides in a hole in
the wall.

That brings up a point that I wanted to make about the Bora bases.
Mine, at least, has the lift levers in the front and a flange that
mounts the wheels higher (axles tend to be at the center of wheels)
than the frame. These make for great trip hazards. This is another
reason to off-center the lift lever in the home-grown design we were
discussing.

So you can easily fix that. Simply swap the right for the left and visa
versa. The putts the lift levers on the ends instead of in front.

jointers
 

On 3/17/2021 4:34 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
writes:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 11:36:04 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

My father had a craftsman 60+ years ago. It had the cast iron web
extension tables (double). It also had the finger-killer motor,
exposed, hanging off the back. Those were the days that one was
expected to know that table saws were dangerous. Bubble wrap hadn't
been invented yet so mothers hadn't started wrapping kids in it from
birth.

Yeah, everyone should be short a finger or two.

Sure, accidents never happen, so there is no point attempting
to prevent them.



Yeah! When you use all the safety rules and read the safety manual
before every use of the tool Nothing will happen. LOL

Sounds like me when the Saw Stop showed up and I was saying why not and
getting the response, If you are careful and don't do anything stupid
you will not get hurt.

Who among us has never done anything stupid?