Laguna finally came out with their new line of jointers. The higher
end 8" helical jointer looks nice but at $2750, I think it's out of my
range. Interestingly, all of the Laguna jointers are parallogram.
There are no more dovetail jointers in their lineup. They have 54
cutters, like Powermatic.

The lower end 8" jointer is very similar (1.5HP vs 1.75HP WOW!) but
only has 20 cutters and goes for $2000. 20 cutters, really? There is
a picture of the cutter head. It looks like a kid missing half its
teeth. https://lagunatools.com/classic/jointers/jx8-eco/ Click on
the plus sign on the safety cover.

It's very different than either the Jet or Powermatic so it's a tough
call.

On 3/12/2021 4:28 PM, wrote:

Laguna finally came out with their new line of jointers. The higher
end 8" helical jointer looks nice but at $2750, I think it's out of my
range. Interestingly, all of the Laguna jointers are parallogram.
There are no more dovetail jointers in their lineup. They have 54
cutters, like Powermatic.

The lower end 8" jointer is very similar (1.5HP vs 1.75HP WOW!) but
only has 20 cutters and goes for $2000. 20 cutters, really? There is
a picture of the cutter head. It looks like a kid missing half its
teeth. https://lagunatools.com/classic/jointers/jx8-eco/ Click on
the plus sign on the safety cover.

It's very different than either the Jet or Powermatic so it's a tough
call.



Well the lower end jointer appears to have gone up to $2250 already.

So both jointers look pretty good but you are paying for the extra teeth
on the more costly one. And it seems the cutter heads may be from
different manufacturers. They are called different names. Money being
no object....

I would like to see a video showing the importance or
advantage/disadvantage of the extendable infeed roller. It seems that
the end of the board would drop down in the void between the roller and
the infeed table if the board crowned up in the middle. And having said
that why no outfeed roller.

And I am seeing the more expensive one with 3 HP. vs 1.75. I did not
see a 1.5 version.

Given the length of the tables, I was surprised to see that they are
relatively light weight. 300 lb unpacked. Is the Jet that light too?
My Jet jointer/planer comes in at about 500lb IIRC. 600lb packed.


And the last thing to consider, the warranty.

Jet may be 5 times longer. 5 years.

On Fri, 12 Mar 2021 17:17:02 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/12/2021 4:28 PM, wrote:

Laguna finally came out with their new line of jointers. The higher
end 8" helical jointer looks nice but at $2750, I think it's out of my
range. Interestingly, all of the Laguna jointers are parallogram.
There are no more dovetail jointers in their lineup. They have 54
cutters, like Powermatic.

The lower end 8" jointer is very similar (1.5HP vs 1.75HP WOW!) but
only has 20 cutters and goes for $2000. 20 cutters, really? There is
a picture of the cutter head. It looks like a kid missing half its
teeth. https://lagunatools.com/classic/jointers/jx8-eco/ Click on
the plus sign on the safety cover.

It's very different than either the Jet or Powermatic so it's a tough
call.



Well the lower end jointer appears to have gone up to $2250 already.

So both jointers look pretty good but you are paying for the extra teeth
on the more costly one. And it seems the cutter heads may be from
different manufacturers. They are called different names. Money being
no object....

More teeth and larger motor (3HP vs. 1.75HP). I'd rather not run
another 220 line but perhaps wouldn't need it because the chances of
it running full-tilt for any time is zero. I have one 20A line run
for the DC and another for all of the tools (TS, BS, and lathe). I
*really* don't want to run 10-2 across the basement.

The Laguna is a parallelogram jointer, where the others have dovetail
ways. I don't know how significant that is, really, but I understand
that adjusting tables on a dovetail machine is one RPITA.

I would like to see a video showing the importance or
advantage/disadvantage of the extendable infeed roller. It seems that
the end of the board would drop down in the void between the roller and
the infeed table if the board crowned up in the middle. And having said
that why no outfeed roller.

And I am seeing the more expensive one with 3 HP. vs 1.75. I did not
see a 1.5 version.

I must have been thinking about the 6".

Given the length of the tables, I was surprised to see that they are
relatively light weight. 300 lb unpacked. Is the Jet that light too?
My Jet jointer/planer comes in at about 500lb IIRC. 600lb packed.

500lbs packed. 380lbs net. The Jet has cheaper boxes (450#/380#). Then
Powermatic is almost 500lbs shipped, and a little over 400lbs net.

And the last thing to consider, the warranty.

Jet may be 5 times longer. 5 years.

I don't know anything about Jet customer service but Laguna's
reputation isn't great. I've only contacted them a couple of times
but was reasonably satisfied. As you may remember, the light mount
(part of the lathe) was tapped wrong. After *finally* getting the
right number, they sent out a replacement part, no charge (I'd have
been ****ed otherwise). Small problem. They sent the flange for the
15/24 and I have the 18/36. When called again, they sent the right
casting and I had it in a couple of days.

On 3/12/2021 5:51 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 12 Mar 2021 17:17:02 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/12/2021 4:28 PM, wrote:

Laguna finally came out with their new line of jointers. The higher
end 8" helical jointer looks nice but at $2750, I think it's out of my
range. Interestingly, all of the Laguna jointers are parallogram.
There are no more dovetail jointers in their lineup. They have 54
cutters, like Powermatic.

The lower end 8" jointer is very similar (1.5HP vs 1.75HP WOW!) but
only has 20 cutters and goes for $2000. 20 cutters, really? There is
a picture of the cutter head. It looks like a kid missing half its
teeth. https://lagunatools.com/classic/jointers/jx8-eco/ Click on
the plus sign on the safety cover.

It's very different than either the Jet or Powermatic so it's a tough
call.



Well the lower end jointer appears to have gone up to $2250 already.

So both jointers look pretty good but you are paying for the extra teeth
on the more costly one. And it seems the cutter heads may be from
different manufacturers. They are called different names. Money being
no object....

More teeth and larger motor (3HP vs. 1.75HP). I'd rather not run
another 220 line but perhaps wouldn't need it because the chances of
it running full-tilt for any time is zero. I have one 20A line run
for the DC and another for all of the tools (TS, BS, and lathe). I
*really* don't want to run 10-2 across the basement.

For just a jointer, I would think 1.75 hp should be enough, my combo
unit had 3 but it also has to engage the infeed and out feed when in
planer mode.



The Laguna is a parallelogram jointer, where the others have dovetail
ways. I don't know how significant that is, really, but I understand
that adjusting tables on a dovetail machine is one RPITA.

I would like to see a video showing the importance or
advantage/disadvantage of the extendable infeed roller. It seems that
the end of the board would drop down in the void between the roller and
the infeed table if the board crowned up in the middle. And having said
that why no outfeed roller.

And I am seeing the more expensive one with 3 HP. vs 1.75. I did not
see a 1.5 version.

I must have been thinking about the 6".

Given the length of the tables, I was surprised to see that they are
relatively light weight. 300 lb unpacked. Is the Jet that light too?
My Jet jointer/planer comes in at about 500lb IIRC. 600lb packed.

500lbs packed. 380lbs net. The Jet has cheaper boxes (450#/380#). Then
Powermatic is almost 500lbs shipped, and a little over 400lbs net.

And the last thing to consider, the warranty.

Jet may be 5 times longer. 5 years.

I don't know anything about Jet customer service but Laguna's
reputation isn't great. I've only contacted them a couple of times
but was reasonably satisfied. As you may remember, the light mount
(part of the lathe) was tapped wrong. After *finally* getting the
right number, they sent out a replacement part, no charge (I'd have
been ****ed otherwise). Small problem. They sent the flange for the
15/24 and I have the 18/36. When called again, they sent the right
casting and I had it in a couple of days.


I bought my Laguna BS many years back and when it arrived it was missing
one of the ceramic guide inserts. Laguna was sympathetic and agreed to
send out the replacement as soon as they got one in. I used a dowel pin
for quite a while as they ordered and sent me the wrong one and that
started over again. Beyond that I have had no issues.

With Jet I also got good service. My 3hp TS motor had a start up jolt
when turned on. Jet reps sent me a new start up solenoid and eventually
a new motor. None helped as I learned that the Delta Unisaw had the
same issue. It was explained to me that I had great line voltage so the
motor was coming up to speed instantly.
I also had a bad large rubber insert form my oscillating spindle sander.
They immediately sent a new one to me.
And finally my drum sander feed belt had a tracking issue. They sent
me a new feed belt.

I did not have to wait much at all for replacement parts from Jet.
Laguna was another story.

I personally would feel that Jet would provide the better service after
the sale. They always had the parts, and I would venture to say that
their depth on inventory of parts is deeper than Laguna. My Laguna is a
great machine but with the fact that it was built in Italy might explain
the parts issue, although the ceramic guides are unique to the Laguna
brand and are probably manufactured in the U.S. Who knows.

My ultimate feeling is that the European Laguna machines are closer to
commercial/industrial in quality. Jet is probably closer to the smaller
business/pro in quality on their more robust machines.

Last, I ordered my Jet jointer/planer combo the Monday after
Thanksgiving. It finally arrived January 18, IIRC. I am certain this is
Covid related. I original was going to order the Hammer combo machine
for significantly more money but they were quoting me 7 months wait....
I was OK with that but the fact that I was going to pay $500 for lift
gate shipping and delivery AND they would not guarantee a lift gate
delivery left me with a lot of doubts..

I bought my Jet through my local Woodcraft and deliver with lift gate
had gone up in price from free, to $25. Fine!

Jet's dealer network is considerably larger than Laguna's. When I
bought my Laguna, I had to buy direct from Laguna. Laguna is now
available through Woodcraft and Rockler but I would wager that parts
availability will probably fall short compared to Jet.


Chew on all of that for a while. LOL

On Fri, 12 Mar 2021 17:17:02 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

...
I would like to see a video showing the importance or
advantage/disadvantage of the extendable infeed roller. It seems that
the end of the board would drop down in the void between the roller and
the infeed table if the board crowned up in the middle. And having said
that why no outfeed roller.

Agreed. An extra 8" on a 72" bed doesn't seem like it's worth much
and could be a real problem. I marked that up to the design
marketeering department.

wrote in message ...

Agreed. An extra 8" on a 72" bed doesn't seem like it's worth much
and could be a real problem. I marked that up to the design
marketeering department.

I've been thinking about that roller and also about some of the boards I've
run through my DJ-20. The beds on the DJ-20 are 76.5" and I've run 12'-16'
stock through it. The wood drags on the edge of the infeed table as it's
fed. I'm thinking that the roller would likely reduce or even eliminate that
friction and make it easier to feed the wood.

On 3/12/2021 10:39 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
wrote in message ...

Agreed.Â* An extra 8" on a 72" bed doesn't seem like it's worth much
and could be a real problem.Â* I marked that up to the design
marketeering department.

I've been thinking about that roller and also about some of the boards
I've run through my DJ-20. The beds on the DJ-20 are 76.5" and I've run
12'-16' stock through it. The wood drags on the edge of the infeed table
as it's fed. I'm thinking that the roller would likely reduce or even
eliminate that friction and make it easier to feed the wood.


Yes. But when the end of the board clears the roller it falls and drags
on the end of the in feed table.... ESPECIALLY on boards less than 8' long.

Eliminating that friction or drag would be temporary with every board
that is longer than the in feed table.

"Leon" wrote in message
...

On 3/12/2021 10:39 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

I've been thinking about that roller and also about some of the boards
I've run through my DJ-20. The beds on the DJ-20 are 76.5" and I've run
12'-16' stock through it. The wood drags on the edge of the infeed table
as it's fed. I'm thinking that the roller would likely reduce or even
eliminate that friction and make it easier to feed the wood.


Yes. But when the end of the board clears the roller it falls and drags on
the end of the in feed table.... ESPECIALLY on boards less than 8' long.

Eliminating that friction or drag would be temporary with every board that
is longer than the in feed table.

Yes, it's temporary. However, when you have 12-16' boards in play the last
thing you need is more friction while you've got all that wood hanging out
there!

By the time the end of the board reaches the roller it's a non-issue. This
as the problem of the board drooping, even a little, over the end of the
infeed and dragging is all but gone by then... The feed pressure is on the
outfeed table within a foot or two of feeding and that generally controls
the cut. When face jointing, if a board is so bowed or twisted that more
than droop is creating a lot of friction at the end of the infeed table I'd
think it should be cut to shorter lengths. This as there might be nothing
left by the time it's flat! Likewise, for edge jointing, if the crook is
real bad it should either be straight line ripped or cut into shorter
lengths.

Me... bow/twist/crook assessments take place before the wood gets to the
jointer and if they are bad enough a saw will be involved before the jointer
is used. It's the droop induced friction on the long boards that would be
nice to moderate and a roller could help do that.

On Fri, 12 Mar 2021 23:39:34 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

wrote in message ...

Agreed. An extra 8" on a 72" bed doesn't seem like it's worth much
and could be a real problem. I marked that up to the design
marketeering department.

I've been thinking about that roller and also about some of the boards I've
run through my DJ-20. The beds on the DJ-20 are 76.5" and I've run 12'-16'
stock through it. The wood drags on the edge of the infeed table as it's
fed. I'm thinking that the roller would likely reduce or even eliminate that
friction and make it easier to feed the wood.

But it also has to be perfectly coplanar with the table. Another
possible nightmare, IMO.

On 3/12/2021 5:56 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 12 Mar 2021 17:17:02 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

...
I would like to see a video showing the importance or
advantage/disadvantage of the extendable infeed roller. It seems that
the end of the board would drop down in the void between the roller and
the infeed table if the board crowned up in the middle. And having said
that why no outfeed roller.

Agreed. An extra 8" on a 72" bed doesn't seem like it's worth much
and could be a real problem. I marked that up to the design
marketeering department.


LOL exactly. Hammer offers an extension but is solid iron with no big
gap. I would be more concerned with the gap, on the Laguna, than the
short addition. After all, you run boards through a jointer because
they are not straight or flat. Certainly when the end of the board
falls between the in feed table and the roller the board will lift up on
the out feed side. It may not be an issue but I would have to try it
out before I was convinced that is is a feature and not a problem issue.

On Sat, 13 Mar 2021 09:01:36 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/12/2021 5:56 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 12 Mar 2021 17:17:02 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

...
I would like to see a video showing the importance or
advantage/disadvantage of the extendable infeed roller. It seems that
the end of the board would drop down in the void between the roller and
the infeed table if the board crowned up in the middle. And having said
that why no outfeed roller.

Agreed. An extra 8" on a 72" bed doesn't seem like it's worth much
and could be a real problem. I marked that up to the design
marketeering department.


LOL exactly. Hammer offers an extension but is solid iron with no big
gap. I would be more concerned with the gap, on the Laguna, than the
short addition. After all, you run boards through a jointer because
they are not straight or flat. Certainly when the end of the board
falls between the in feed table and the roller the board will lift up on
the out feed side. It may not be an issue but I would have to try it
out before I was convinced that is is a feature and not a problem issue.

I don't see that as a problem so much as the roller not being coplanar
with the table. Bending the board (either up or down) going through
the knives doesn't seem to be a good idea. I guess it's better than
hanging off the end but it's still only 8". Maybe if it makes it
easier for rollers, it might be worth it.

On Friday, March 12, 2021 at 4:28:38 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Laguna finally came out with their new line of jointers. The higher
end 8" helical jointer looks nice but at $2750, I think it's out of my
range. Interestingly, all of the Laguna jointers are parallogram.
There are no more dovetail jointers in their lineup. They have 54
cutters, like Powermatic.

The lower end 8" jointer is very similar (1.5HP vs 1.75HP WOW!) but
only has 20 cutters and goes for $2000. 20 cutters, really? There is
a picture of the cutter head. It looks like a kid missing half its
teeth. https://lagunatools.com/classic/jointers/jx8-eco/ Click on
the plus sign on the safety cover.

It's very different than either the Jet or Powermatic so it's a tough
call.

Is HP really much of a concern with jointers? I think its kind of like a drill press. HP isn't really a factor in deciding which drill press to buy. With a jointer you will be taking off more wood the wider the jointer is. But you can and do adjust the depth of cut so you are only taking off a tiny tiny tiny amount of wood. And you sneak up on taking off the wood. You don't start taking off a full cut. Now I'm not saying you want an underpowered jointer. But once you get enough HP, its enough. You can then ignore that spec.

On 3/12/2021 11:54 PM, wrote:
On Friday, March 12, 2021 at 4:28:38 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Laguna finally came out with their new line of jointers. The higher
end 8" helical jointer looks nice but at $2750, I think it's out of my
range. Interestingly, all of the Laguna jointers are parallogram.
There are no more dovetail jointers in their lineup. They have 54
cutters, like Powermatic.

The lower end 8" jointer is very similar (1.5HP vs 1.75HP WOW!) but
only has 20 cutters and goes for $2000. 20 cutters, really? There is
a picture of the cutter head. It looks like a kid missing half its
teeth. https://lagunatools.com/classic/jointers/jx8-eco/ Click on
the plus sign on the safety cover.

It's very different than either the Jet or Powermatic so it's a tough
call.

Is HP really much of a concern with jointers? I think its kind of like a drill press. HP isn't really a factor in deciding which drill press to buy. With a jointer you will be taking off more wood the wider the jointer is. But you can and do adjust the depth of cut so you are only taking off a tiny tiny tiny amount of wood. And you sneak up on taking off the wood. You don't start taking off a full cut. Now I'm not saying you want an underpowered jointer. But once you get enough HP, its enough. You can then ignore that spec.



I would agree with that analogy. With less HP you can make a shallower
cut or feed slower.

BUT BUT BUT.

If the lower HP jointer has less than 1/2 the amount of teeth I would
think that each tooth is taking a bigger bite. And that could
"Possibly" be "something". LOL

Old style planers essentially had 3~4 blades that cut all across the
board. And that is a bigger hunk of wood being removed with each knife cut.

I certainly think this can be "over thought" into indecision.

On 3/12/2021 4:28 PM, wrote:

Laguna finally came out with their new line of jointers. The higher
end 8" helical jointer looks nice but at $2750, I think it's out of my
range. Interestingly, all of the Laguna jointers are parallogram.
There are no more dovetail jointers in their lineup. They have 54
cutters, like Powermatic.

The lower end 8" jointer is very similar (1.5HP vs 1.75HP WOW!) but
only has 20 cutters and goes for $2000. 20 cutters, really? There is
a picture of the cutter head. It looks like a kid missing half its
teeth. https://lagunatools.com/classic/jointers/jx8-eco/ Click on
the plus sign on the safety cover.

It's very different than either the Jet or Powermatic so it's a tough
call.



So! Now you can get a 100th Anniversary Powermatic.

Comes in Black with Gold highlights!

When sexy is a consideration, this might be it! ;~)

On Fri, 2 Apr 2021 09:25:32 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/12/2021 4:28 PM, wrote:

Laguna finally came out with their new line of jointers. The higher
end 8" helical jointer looks nice but at $2750, I think it's out of my
range. Interestingly, all of the Laguna jointers are parallogram.
There are no more dovetail jointers in their lineup. They have 54
cutters, like Powermatic.

The lower end 8" jointer is very similar (1.5HP vs 1.75HP WOW!) but
only has 20 cutters and goes for $2000. 20 cutters, really? There is
a picture of the cutter head. It looks like a kid missing half its
teeth. https://lagunatools.com/classic/jointers/jx8-eco/ Click on
the plus sign on the safety cover.

It's very different than either the Jet or Powermatic so it's a tough
call.



So! Now you can get a 100th Anniversary Powermatic.

Comes in Black with Gold highlights!

When sexy is a consideration, this might be it! ;~)

It's not quite as ugly as the 99th anniversary Powermatic. There
isn't an 8" model, either. So, it's either wait, wait, or wait.