In article , " wrote:
On Aug 2, 6:57=A0am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , Bill wrote:
Could you advise me on sand-paper (I really mean "screen"), in the
context of putting up drywall. =A0I bought Stanley's book on drywall two
days ago and, to my surprise, this was not addressed.

I was going to get 120 grit (medium) and 220 grit (fine), since that is
what is offered at Lowes. =A0 My guess is that the 120 is for (heavier)
setting compound and the 220 is for the finishing compound.

That's what I use.

Same.

I also use one of these to control the dust:http://www.amazon.com/MT800-S=
and-Kleen-Sander-System/dp/B00005A1K8

Got mine at Home Depot about four, five years ago. Not sure if they still sell
them or not -- it doesn't seem to be on their website. The product is great,
and so is the manufacturer: I dropped the sanding head off the top of a ladder
onto a concrete floor and cracked part of it. Called them to order a
replacement -- told them exactly what happened, so they knew it wasn't a
warranty claim -- and they sent a complete new sanding head, free of charge,
by Priority Mail. I had it in two days.

I have one of those, too. It doesn't have the water filter on it,
though. I've found that the screen makes larger dust particles (than
sand paper) so a shop vac has no problems with it. It will plug a
filter, though. I wonder if a Dust Deputy would help.

Heck, the water filter is the best feature. It catches 90% of the dust; very
little actually makes it through to the shopvac.

In article , Bill wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In , wrote:
Just finished my insulation. I ended up taking down the drywall in the
corner too, rather than leaving myself 2 butt-joints to make there. I
would have saved some time if I had decided that a month or two ago
rather than tip-toeing around it. While I was trimming things up a
question occurred to me--What sort of Lighting am I going to want while
doing the setting compound/sanding/finishing compound joint work?

I use one of these:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_320775-337-T...ductId=3179077

Wow, the price is right too (~$39). Do you find it convenient for other
uses?

Oh, absolutely. I use it when painting a room, or when finishing furniture --
the brighter the light the better. Occasionally use it in the garage for car
repair work too, and for general-purpose task lighting whenever I need a bit
more light on whatever I'm working on.

Pick up a couple of spare bulbs too -- but not at Lowe's. They're about 75%
cheaper at Harbor Freight.

I'd guess it's probably pretty hot so one might not want to be
right underneath it.

Quite correct. If you're using one while painting a small room, best to
station it outside the door if you can, so that most of the heat stays
outside the room. OTOH, that heat can be useful when working on a car in an
unheated garage in February. DAMHIKT.

I've got a list of about 10 drywall-project related things to pick up
today (drywall hammer, ...), not including drywall and joint compound.
I'll have to see how I survive that first! : )

There are some excellent videos on drywall installation and finishing
techniques available at the public library. And I'll share a finishing tip
that I learned from a pro: when spreading joint compound, hold your taping
knife with your index and middle fingers splayed out in a vee behind the
blade, and grasp the handle only with your thumb and last two fingers. That
gives you *far* better control of the blade than if you grasp the handle with
your entire hand.

On Aug 2, 11:02*am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , " wrote:



On Aug 2, 6:57=A0am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , Bill wrote:
Could you advise me on sand-paper (I really mean "screen"), in the
context of putting up drywall. =A0I bought Stanley's book on drywall two
days ago and, to my surprise, this was not addressed.

I was going to get 120 grit (medium) and 220 grit (fine), since that is
what is offered at Lowes. =A0 My guess is that the 120 is for (heavier)
setting compound and the 220 is for the finishing compound.

That's what I use.

Same.

I also use one of these to control the dust:http://www.amazon.com/MT800-S=
and-Kleen-Sander-System/dp/B00005A1K8

Got mine at Home Depot about four, five years ago. Not sure if they still sell
them or not -- it doesn't seem to be on their website. The product is great,
and so is the manufacturer: I dropped the sanding head off the top of a ladder
onto a concrete floor and cracked part of it. Called them to order a
replacement -- told them exactly what happened, so they knew it wasn't a
warranty claim -- and they sent a complete new sanding head, free of charge,
by Priority Mail. I had it in two days.

I have one of those, too. *It doesn't have the water filter on it,
though. *I've found that the screen makes larger dust particles (than
sand paper) so a shop vac has no problems with it. *It will plug a
filter, though. *I wonder if a Dust Deputy would help.

Heck, the water filter is the best feature. It catches 90% of the dust; very
little actually makes it through to the shopvac.

....and you can recycle the dust into new mud! ;-)

On Aug 2, 10:14*am, Bill wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In , *wrote:
Just finished my insulation. I ended up taking down the drywall in the
corner too, rather than leaving myself 2 butt-joints to make there. *I
would have saved some time if I had decided that a month or two ago
rather than tip-toeing around it. *While I was trimming things up a
question occurred to me--What sort of Lighting am I going to want while
doing the setting compound/sanding/finishing compound joint work?

I use one of these:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_320775-337-T...ductId=3179077

Wow, the price is right too (~$39). *Do you find it convenient for other
uses? * I'd guess it's probably pretty hot so one might not want to be
right underneath it.

I've found, like all tools, a little more money goes a long way in
satisfaction. I have one of the cheapie lights and it's not very
stable. One of the switches broke, as well, so only one head works.
I'll spend more money on the next one. Another $40 or so is nothing
when doing this stuff.

I've got a list of about 10 drywall-project related things to pick up
today (drywall hammer, ...), not including drywall and joint compound.
I'll have to see how I survive that first! *: )

Hammer?! Screw the sheetrock!

I'm preparing to tape my joints and around several of my eleven
electrical boxes. Larry may consider it "overkill", but I made
little cardboard box inserts, held by friction, which fit into the front
of each of the electrical boxes to protect the wires from drywall
knives, sanders, etc.

I noticed that the screw holes are still exposed so I'm planning to buy
a package of short 6-32 screws to protect the screw holes from now until
the time that I am finished painting. Is this the standard way to
protect the screw holes during the joint taping and painting process? I
assume that it's sufficient.

Bill

Bill wrote:

I'm preparing to tape my joints and around several of my eleven
electrical boxes. Larry may consider it "overkill", but I made
little cardboard box inserts, held by friction, which fit into the
front of each of the electrical boxes to protect the wires from
drywall knives, sanders, etc.

I noticed that the screw holes are still exposed so I'm planning to
buy a package of short 6-32 screws to protect the screw holes from
now until the time that I am finished painting. Is this the standard
way to protect the screw holes during the joint taping and painting
process? I assume that it's sufficient.


Actually the drywall guys are the bane of electricians. They don't care one
hoot about those boxes. Very common to find a glob of dried compound in a
box. Same thing with painters. That said - the mud chips out very easily
and if it is part of a smear that ran wild from the wall, just score it
through along the outside of the box and chip off the errant remainder. For
the most part you can easily mud right up to the box with no problems, but
if you do lay a blob in there it's no big deal. The screw threads are no
problem at all. The screws will run home just fine. If your wires are
properly tucked inside your boxes, you have nothing to worry about from
drywall tools.

--

-Mike-

Ohhh...that's why they make those 6" deep boxes? To hide the wires from the
drywallers.

Why is it they always nick the neutral conductor and it only shows up on the
GFCI circuits?



"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...
Actually the drywall guys are the bane of electricians. They don't care one
hoot about those boxes. Very common to find a glob of dried compound in a
box. Same thing with painters. That said - the mud chips out very easily
and if it is part of a smear that ran wild from the wall, just score it
through along the outside of the box and chip off the errant remainder. For
the most part you can easily mud right up to the box with no problems, but
if you do lay a blob in there it's no big deal. The screw threads are no
problem at all. The screws will run home just fine. If your wires are
properly tucked inside your boxes, you have nothing to worry about from
drywall tools.

--

-Mike-

"Mike Marlow" wrote

Actually the drywall guys are the bane of electricians. They don't care
one hoot about those boxes. Very common to find a glob of dried compound
in a box. Same thing with painters. That said - the mud chips out very
easily and if it is part of a smear that ran wild from the wall, just
score it through along the outside of the box and chip off the errant
remainder. For the most part you can easily mud right up to the box with
no problems, but if you do lay a blob in there it's no big deal. The
screw threads are no problem at all. The screws will run home just fine.
If your wires are properly tucked inside your boxes, you have nothing to
worry about from drywall tools.
The screws sticking up will make finishing harder, as will wires sticking
out or box sticking up.

Josepi wrote:
Ohhh...that's why they make those 6" deep boxes? To hide the wires
from the drywallers.

Why is it they always nick the neutral conductor and it only shows up
on the GFCI circuits?


It's all part of an evil plot on the part of the even more evil drywallers
and painters.

--

-Mike-

Alway let your drywallers know that the wiring is alive. They are more
careful, that way, and the bark will tell you where to look for the problems
before the drywallers get away and **YOU** have to fix the drywall holes
that allow you to pull a couple of more inches through the clamp.

Ask them politely to hit the love conductors and NOT the neutrals though.



"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...
It's all part of an evil plot on the part of the even more evil drywallers
and painters.


Josepi wrote:
Ohhh...that's why they make those 6" deep boxes? To hide the wires
from the drywallers.

Why is it they always nick the neutral conductor and it only shows up
on the GFCI circuits?

On 8/16/2010 4:34 PM, Josepi wrote:
Alway let your drywallers know that the wiring is alive. They are more
careful, that way, and the bark will tell you where to look for the problems
before the drywallers get away and **YOU** have to fix the drywall holes
that allow you to pull a couple of more inches through the clamp.

Ask them politely to hit the love conductors and NOT the neutrals though.

Sounds kinky.

hmmmm.. I wonder where that came from. What was I thinking?...LOL

love = nick?


"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Sounds kinky.


On 8/16/2010 4:34 PM, Josepi wrote:
Alway let your drywallers know that the wiring is alive. They are more
careful, that way, and the bark will tell you where to look for the
problems
before the drywallers get away and **YOU** have to fix the drywall holes
that allow you to pull a couple of more inches through the clamp.

Ask them politely to hit the love conductors and NOT the neutrals though.

Earlier in this thread, I described how much drywall work I left for
myself 3" away from the ceiling. 25 pounds of Durabond and 18 pounds of
EasySand later, that part looks pretty darn good now. I learned to wear
gloves when I work with EasySand, and to act faster too.

On the other hand, having completed my second layer with All-Purpose
joint compound, I notice I've got almost 20 feet of tape (not near the
ceiling) which is largely joint-starved. In some cases, I think that
may partly be the result of taping across too wide a gap.

I guess I'll get out some 120 grit (heaviest I have on hand) and sand
'er down and retape. That's what you do if this happens, right
(Yes, that's a real question)? Better to back up and get it right,
then forge ahead and have the tape fall off after its painted...

I just wanted you supportive folks to know I'm still working at it.

Bill

Bill wrote:


On the other hand, having completed my second layer with All-Purpose
joint compound, I notice I've got almost 20 feet of tape (not near the
ceiling) which is largely joint-starved. In some cases, I think that
may partly be the result of taping across too wide a gap.


What do you mean by joint-starved Bill? Do you mean that you've sanded down
to the tape and it's starting to show? If so - don't remove it. Feather
new compound in to cover it over. You don't need any minimum amount of
compound - just enough to hide the tape.

I guess I'll get out some 120 grit (heaviest I have on hand) and sand
'er down and retape. That's what you do if this happens, right
(Yes, that's a real question)? Better to back up and get it right,
then forge ahead and have the tape fall off after its painted...

Can't answer for sure, because I don't understand what you mean when you say
joint starved.


--

-Mike-

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:


On the other hand, having completed my second layer with All-Purpose
joint compound, I notice I've got almost 20 feet of tape (not near the
ceiling) which is largely joint-starved. In some cases, I think that
may partly be the result of taping across too wide a gap.


What do you mean by joint-starved Bill? Do you mean that you've sanded down
to the tape and it's starting to show?

Sorry, I took too much liberty with the following definition:

starved joint ( €²stärvd €²jöint ) ( engineering ) A glued joint
containing insufficient or inadequate adhesive.

I.e., there are places where the tape is not adhered. You can push in
just a little, 1/16" or less, with your finger. At first I (naively)
thought I might fix that with additional layers of joint compound.
Didn't work. Those "bad" places keep looking raised (and they seem
likely to be a headache down the road...).

All the tools I need are sitting right there..redoing it now is not a
major inconvenience (as long as the removal goes well enough). I am
much faster now than I was when I started.

Bill






I guess I'll get out some 120 grit (heaviest I have on hand) and sand
'er down and retape. That's what you do if this happens, right
(Yes, that's a real question)? Better to back up and get it right,
then forge ahead and have the tape fall off after its painted...

Bill writes:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:


On the other hand, having completed my second layer with All-Purpose
joint compound, I notice I've got almost 20 feet of tape (not near the
ceiling) which is largely joint-starved. In some cases, I think that
may partly be the result of taping across too wide a gap.


What do you mean by joint-starved Bill? Do you mean that you've sanded down
to the tape and it's starting to show?

Sorry, I took too much liberty with the following definition:

starved joint ( €²stärvd €²jöint ) ( engineering ) A glued joint
containing insufficient or inadequate adhesive.

I.e., there are places where the tape is not adhered. You can push in
just a little, 1/16" or less, with your finger. At first I (naively)
thought I might fix that with additional layers of joint compound.
Didn't work. Those "bad" places keep looking raised (and they seem
likely to be a headache down the road...).

Cut a slit in the "bad" places (air bubbles) with an utility knife,
then (re)apply your topcoat.

scott

"Bill" wrote

I.e., there are places where the tape is not adhered. You can push in just
a little, 1/16" or less, with your finger. At first I (naively) thought I
might fix that with additional layers of joint compound. Didn't work.
Those "bad" places keep looking raised (and they seem likely to be a
headache down the road...).

All the tools I need are sitting right there..redoing it now is not a
major inconvenience (as long as the removal goes well enough). I am much
faster now than I was when I started.

If it is just a few places, not very long, you can use a utility blade to
cut a football shaped piece out of the paper and fill it in with joint
compound. It will not show a crack even at a joint, for short sections.

If you can just pull the paper up, there will be an indentation where the
paper was. Trim a half inch off of the paper, and mud and re-apply the
paper in the groove without sanding down the indentation. Use a narrow
blade to press the paper into the mud. That could save some good time and
effort from sanding.

Did I mention that I hate to sand? g
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:
wrote

I.e., there are places where the tape is not adhered. You can push in just
a little, 1/16" or less, with your finger. At first I (naively) thought I
might fix that with additional layers of joint compound. Didn't work.
Those "bad" places keep looking raised (and they seem likely to be a
headache down the road...).

All the tools I need are sitting right there..redoing it now is not a
major inconvenience (as long as the removal goes well enough). I am much
faster now than I was when I started.

If it is just a few places, not very long, you can use a utility blade to
cut a football shaped piece out of the paper and fill it in with joint
compound. It will not show a crack even at a joint, for short sections.

If you can just pull the paper up, there will be an indentation where the
paper was. Trim a half inch off of the paper, and mud and re-apply the
paper in the groove without sanding down the indentation. Use a narrow
blade to press the paper into the mud. That could save some good time and
effort from sanding.

That seems like a darn good idea. I'll use it if I can pull the paper up
nicely. Thanks!

BTW, as you may have noticed from my earlier post, you helped me solve
the problem I was having near the ceiling. Amazing what 43 pounds of
dry compound can do with a little effort! : )

Bill


Did I mention that I hate to sand?g

Bill wrote:

BTW, as you may have noticed from my earlier post, you helped me solve
the problem I was having near the ceiling.

My work, at the ceiling, Easysand on top of Durabond, taped, is
basically sanded vertically with 150 grit (leaving minor "striation").
So far, I've used 6" and 8" knives there creating a taper that extends
10 to 11 inches from the ceiling. I have a 12" knife for finishing. I
expect I can omit adding a layer of "All-Purpose" there and go straight
to the finishing compound (or not?).

Do you have any suggestions about the application of further compounds
and sanding (in particular, is there a worthwhile reason to switch to
strictly horizontal application and sanding)?

So far, so good! Though admittedly I've paid a high price in labor for
taking this route and not removing the drywall to the ceiling!

Bill

Bill wrote:


My work, at the ceiling, Easysand on top of Durabond, taped, is
basically sanded vertically with 150 grit (leaving minor "striation").
So far, I've used 6" and 8" knives there creating a taper that extends
10 to 11 inches from the ceiling. I have a 12" knife for finishing. I
expect I can omit adding a layer of "All-Purpose" there and go
straight to the finishing compound (or not?).

You will want to apply/finish your taper in the horizontal direction as well
as the vertical in order to eliminate the striations Bill. Circular might
be a better reference word. If I recall, you have a significant step that
you flared out, and you will probably find that you want that flare
extending a great deal farther than what you currently have, or it will be
visible. You might want to consider using something like a wallpaper tool
to feather out coats of mud to get a larger and flatter flare. Longer is
better in this type of application, and remember that you build up in small
steps rather than trying to get it all in one load. You might also want to
consider a long board for sanding it down. You can get rolls of abrasive
from auto body supply shops, that have an adhesive back, which you can stick
to a board. Will work great in flattening out surfaces. You will probably
find that your flares will run out a couple of feet by the time you are
done, in order to make them disappear.


Do you have any suggestions about the application of further compounds
and sanding (in particular, is there a worthwhile reason to switch to
strictly horizontal application and sanding)?


--

-Mike-

On 9/9/2010 6:49 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:


My work, at the ceiling, Easysand on top of Durabond, taped, is
basically sanded vertically with 150 grit (leaving minor "striation").
So far, I've used 6" and 8" knives there creating a taper that extends
10 to 11 inches from the ceiling. I have a 12" knife for finishing. I
expect I can omit adding a layer of "All-Purpose" there and go
straight to the finishing compound (or not?).

You will want to apply/finish your taper in the horizontal direction as well
as the vertical in order to eliminate the striations Bill. Circular might
be a better reference word. If I recall, you have a significant step that
you flared out, and you will probably find that you want that flare
extending a great deal farther than what you currently have, or it will be
visible.

At this point, it looks good to me. In places where the step was
greater, I made a wider "band" than I described. If if doesn't look
good after I prime it, I may do as you suggest--though I wonder whether
it would be easier to just replace the top 12" of drywall to the
ceiling... Thank you for your idea; I will save it for reference. It
seems like if you adhere sanding screen to a board that there would be
little room for the dust to fall away--and that you would end up
scratching the surface. Is there more to the picture than you described?
Are you talking about a board sized to fit 2 screens end-to-end? Not
necessary to put much effort into a reply for my sake, as I'm not there
yet, but the ideas are interesting!

Bill




You might want to consider using something like a wallpaper tool
to feather out coats of mud to get a larger and flatter flare. Longer is
better in this type of application, and remember that you build up in small
steps rather than trying to get it all in one load. You might also want to
consider a long board for sanding it down. You can get rolls of abrasive
from auto body supply shops, that have an adhesive back, which you can stick
to a board. Will work great in flattening out surfaces. You will probably
find that your flares will run out a couple of feet by the time you are
done, in order to make them disappear.


Do you have any suggestions about the application of further compounds
and sanding (in particular, is there a worthwhile reason to switch to
strictly horizontal application and sanding)?

Bill wrote:


At this point, it looks good to me. In places where the step was
greater, I made a wider "band" than I described. If if doesn't look
good after I prime it, I may do as you suggest--though I wonder
whether it would be easier to just replace the top 12" of drywall to
the ceiling... Thank you for your idea; I will save it for
reference. It seems like if you adhere sanding screen to a board
that there would be little room for the dust to fall away--and that
you would end up scratching the surface. Is there more to the picture
than you described? Are you talking about a board sized to fit 2
screens end-to-end? Not necessary to put much effort into a reply
for my sake, as I'm not there yet, but the ideas are interesting!


For a step like I recall you to have, I would be using a 2'-3' long board.
The rolls of abrasive I suggested come in 2" width, so the board does not
need to be more than 2" wide. Stiffen it with a backbone, which will also
give you something to hold on to. Don't worry - the dust will certainly
fall away. We use long boards in doing auto body work - though they are
only 14-16" long. They make getting a surface dead flat a lot easier.
Plus - the longer the board is the easier it will be to hold it up there
and get a look at what things will look like when you paint the wall. If
you can see any kind of gap under a 2' board, then you can be assured you'll
see it in paint as well. Though... you are pretty high up with your joint,
so you get a little relief just from the fact that it is so far above eye
level.




--

-Mike-

On 9/9/2010 1:03 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:

For a step like I recall you to have, I would be using a 2'-3' long board.
The rolls of abrasive I suggested come in 2" width, so the board does not
need to be more than 2" wide. Stiffen it with a backbone, which will also
give you something to hold on to. Don't worry - the dust will certainly
fall away. We use long boards in doing auto body work - though they are
only 14-16" long. They make getting a surface dead flat a lot easier.
Plus - the longer the board is the easier it will be to hold it up there
and get a look at what things will look like when you paint the wall. If
you can see any kind of gap under a 2' board, then you can be assured you'll
see it in paint as well. Though... you are pretty high up with your joint,
so you get a little relief just from the fact that it is so far above eye
level.


The metrics are helpful! I've been moving a ruler around a little to
gauge how I'm doing--I might be afraid to try a yardstick! : )

Thanks,
Bill

I'm curious how much care does a 5 gallon bucket of all-purpose joint
compound requires. On the container it says to store it at "room
temperature". The temperatures are hovering locally between 53 and 80
degrees F. here lately. I don't plan to have to store it for too many
weeks and I'm reluctant to bring it in from the garage. Because of it's
mass, I figure it could probably handle a cool draft at night. I'm not
wrong about this, am I?

Bill

On 9/16/10 8:16 PM, Bill wrote:
I'm curious how much care does a 5 gallon bucket of all-purpose joint
compound requires. On the container it says to store it at "room
temperature". The temperatures are hovering locally between 53 and 80
degrees F. here lately. I don't plan to have to store it for too many
weeks and I'm reluctant to bring it in from the garage. Because of it's
mass, I figure it could probably handle a cool draft at night. I'm not
wrong about this, am I?

Your fine, if is supposed to get much below 50, bring it in.

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

FrozenNorth wrote:
On 9/16/10 8:16 PM, Bill wrote:
I'm curious how much care does a 5 gallon bucket of all-purpose joint
compound requires. On the container it says to store it at "room
temperature". The temperatures are hovering locally between 53 and 80
degrees F. here lately. I don't plan to have to store it for too many
weeks and I'm reluctant to bring it in from the garage. Because of it's
mass, I figure it could probably handle a cool draft at night. I'm not
wrong about this, am I?

Your fine, if is supposed to get much below 50, bring it in.


Thank you.

Don't freeze it. So far so good.

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
"Our Republic and the Press will Rise or Fall Together": Joseph Pulitzer
TSRA: Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Originator & Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/

On 9/16/2010 7:16 PM, Bill wrote:
I'm curious how much care does a 5 gallon bucket of all-purpose joint compound
requires. On the container it says to store it at "room temperature". The
temperatures are hovering locally between 53 and 80 degrees F. here lately. I
don't plan to have to store it for too many weeks and I'm reluctant to bring it
in from the garage. Because of it's mass, I figure it could probably handle a
cool draft at night. I'm not wrong about this, am I?

Bill

On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 20:16:34 -0400, Bill wrote:

I'm curious how much care does a 5 gallon bucket of all-purpose joint
compound requires. On the container it says to store it at "room
temperature". The temperatures are hovering locally between 53 and 80
degrees F. here lately. I don't plan to have to store it for too many
weeks and I'm reluctant to bring it in from the garage. Because of it's
mass, I figure it could probably handle a cool draft at night. I'm not
wrong about this, am I?

Keep it between 33F and 130F and you should be OK, Bill. Hard freezes
are rough on it, as is boiling. Other than that, just watch the
consistency.

--
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country
against his government." --Edward Abbey