On 6/24/10 8:29 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 6/23/2010 11:42 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Guys, would you just plonk Josepi and forget him?


Who?


Like they say, every village needs an idiot. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Jun 23, 7:39*pm, "Lee Michaels"
wrote:
"Bill" *wrote

BTW, due to mid-western storms this week, my Internet and phone access at
home have been down and that is why I haven't replied to any posts during
the last few days. *And Comcast won't send anyone over to look into the
matter (power-surged modem?) for another 6 days... *When a company asks
you to entrust them with such concerns, and you regularly send them decent
sized checks, you might expect them to try to work a little faster to get
things right.

I remember that classic line about Comcast.

Anybody who doesn't beleive in the existance of hell has obviously never
subscribed to Comcast.

Comcast is fantastic (Comcastic?) when compared to either Charter or
Dish.

On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 08:29:28 -0500, Swingman wrote
the following:

On 6/23/2010 11:42 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Guys, would you just plonk Josepi and forget him?

Who?

Exactly. I would have forgotten him but for all the idiots quoting
him every bloody day.

--
I am beginning to learn that it is the sweet, simple things of life
which are the real ones after all. --Laura Ingalls Wilder (1867-1957)

"mike" wrote:

Do not be so bloody lazy, get proactive.
snip
--------------------
More work than it's worth, especially when "block sender" is so easy.

Lew

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , Bill wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

Ahh, I see now. There's no Code violation there that I'm aware of. The Code
does require a switch close to the door, though -- the idea is that you
shouldn't have to walk all the way into a dark room to turn on the lights.
Thank you for mentioning that. I'm going to install a switch for my new
lighting right in the suggested location.


BTW, due to mid-western storms this week

Where ya at? We've had a lot of midwestern storms this week, too -- wonder if
you're anywhere near. I'm in Indianapolis.


Doug, I am too--Small world! I'm live few miles south of the loop and
and a few blocks off of Meridian (135). I spent another 90 minutes or
so at Menards today window shopping in the electric section. I was at
the store on Meridian, not too far from Smith Valley Rd. I'm still
lacking in Internet access at home (it has been determined that my
Internet problem is "regional" in nature). So, being Saturday night, I
drove a few miles to get public access! I have work, measuring
and such, to do in my attic, but it's 90+ degrees outside in the breeze,
to I decided my measuring could wait until tomorrow.

Bill

In article , Bill wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , Bill
wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

Where ya at? We've had a lot of midwestern storms this week, too -- wonder if
you're anywhere near. I'm in Indianapolis.


Doug, I am too--Small world! I'm live few miles south of the loop and
and a few blocks off of Meridian (135). I spent another 90 minutes or
so at Menards today window shopping in the electric section. I was at
the store on Meridian, not too far from Smith Valley Rd. I'm still
lacking in Internet access at home (it has been determined that my
Internet problem is "regional" in nature). So, being Saturday night, I
drove a few miles to get public access! I have work, measuring
and such, to do in my attic, but it's 90+ degrees outside in the breeze,
to I decided my measuring could wait until tomorrow.

I'll be darned, Bill, it *is* a small world. We live on the near northwest
side, a short distance from the 38th St interchange on I-65. You ever buy your
lumber from Northwest Lumber? It's just one exit up the highway, five minutes
from home for me.

Maybe we ought to get together some time. If you want to drop me a line, my
email address is /doug at milmac dot com/.

Bill wrote:
I'm still lacking in Internet access at home

Hey, it's nice to be hooked up again! I'm unable and unwilling to award
Comcast any accolades on their service, but for the time being I'm "back
in business".

Project-wise, last night I computed how much "wire-space" each of my
boxes requires and I am off to buy 12 boxes, a "running board" and
accessories.

BTW, for those that don't need to ever make a mock-up/model, I made one
with cardboard boxes for outlets and switches and convinced myself to
add an additional duplex outlet (making a total of 11 inside)--it must
have been the echo of your collective voices I heard in the still of the
moment!

Bill

Things are coming together. I'm almost committed to using a 60-Amp
breaker for my subpanel. Maybe it's obvious to everyone else, but it
occurred to me that one doesn't want a breaker so big that the breaker
on one's main panel, in my case 200 Amps, has ANY decent chance of being
overloaded--and thus leaving folks and their tools in the dark.
My shop will have lighting serviced by each panel.

Salesfolk at two different BORGs tell me that 6-3 nm-b romex cable is
suitable as a "feeder cable" for 60 AMP service, even though the charts
indicate that it is only suitable for a 55 Amp device. I would not put
circuits greater than 30 Amp on the subpanel under this configuration.

I have 2 questions I would appreciate opinions on:

1) Is the 6-3 Romex cable suitable for a feeder cable as described?

2) I noticed this cable appears to be 3/4" in diameter. What is the
minimum hole size I would need to bore though studs to properly
accommodate it? Is just big enough to get the cable through big enough?
I don't even think I need additional cable clamps besides for those on
the panels as I would consider if the panels were any further apart.

Thank you!
Bill

Bill wrote:
1) Is the 6-3 Romex cable suitable for a feeder cable as described?


I found the following,and thought it was insightful. The way that I
interpret it, using only 2-pole breakers might raise the effective
ampacity of a "50 Amp subpanel" to 100 Amps (of course this ignores the
extra heat generated by having 2 hot wires "filled" at the same time).
Is there any fruit to be picked here?

-Bill



This provides two separate 60A legs of 120V. Usually, each row in a
breaker panel is on the opposite leg from the row above/below it. So if
you want three each of 15A and 20A 120V circuits, and they are all fully
loaded at once (and this rarely if ever happens), your loads will be as
follows:

Leg 1: 20A + 20A + 15A = 55A
Leg 2: 20A + 15A + 15A = 50A
Neutral load: 5A
If leg 2 goes to 0, then the neutral load would be the same as leg 1, 55A.

In article , Bill wrote:
Salesfolk at two different BORGs tell me that 6-3 nm-b romex cable is
suitable as a "feeder cable" for 60 AMP service, even though the charts
indicate that it is only suitable for a 55 Amp device. I would not put
circuits greater than 30 Amp on the subpanel under this configuration.

I have 2 questions I would appreciate opinions on:

1) Is the 6-3 Romex cable suitable for a feeder cable as described?

Yes, it is. When the rated ampacity of a conductor as given in the charts in
the NEC does not match a standard breaker rating (e.g. 55-amp rating, which
falls between the standard breaker ratings 50 and 60 amps), the Code
explicitly permits using the next-higher standard breaker size. [2005 NEC,
Article 240.4(B)]

2) I noticed this cable appears to be 3/4" in diameter. What is the
minimum hole size I would need to bore though studs to properly
accommodate it?

Bore 3/4" and 7/8" holes in a piece of scrap two-by and test. I think you're
probably going to need 7/8" for this to slip through easily.

Is just big enough to get the cable through big enough?

No. Just big enough to get the cable through _without damaging it_ is big
enough. :-)

In article , Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:
1) Is the 6-3 Romex cable suitable for a feeder cable as described?


I found the following,and thought it was insightful. The way that I
interpret it, using only 2-pole breakers might raise the effective
ampacity of a "50 Amp subpanel" to 100 Amps (of course this ignores the
extra heat generated by having 2 hot wires "filled" at the same time).
Is there any fruit to be picked here?

No. the fruit you're comparing are apples and oranges. A two-pole 50A breaker
supplies one 50A circuit at 240V = 12kVA. This is exactly the same as two 50A
circuits at 120V = 2 * 6kVA = 12kVA.

This has nothing at all to do with whether your 6/3 cable can be protected by
a 60A breaker (it can).

Doug Miller wrote:
In , wrote:
Bill wrote:
1) Is the 6-3 Romex cable suitable for a feeder cable as described?


I found the following,and thought it was insightful. The way that I
interpret it, using only 2-pole breakers might raise the effective
ampacity of a "50 Amp subpanel" to 100 Amps (of course this ignores the
extra heat generated by having 2 hot wires "filled" at the same time).
Is there any fruit to be picked here?

No. the fruit you're comparing are apples and oranges. A two-pole 50A breaker
supplies one 50A circuit at 240V = 12kVA. This is exactly the same as two 50A
circuits at 120V = 2 * 6kVA = 12kVA.

I mostly get it (the units kVA are new to me). The lesson here appears
to be that if I add two 15A 120v devices, than I should put one on each
side/leg, and that I should give some thought as to how devices may be
used in combination as I add breakers for them. I have never thought
this through to this level before (and it's good timing too). TYVM!

Bill

Bill wrote:


I mostly get it (the units kVA are new to me). The lesson here
appears to be that if I add two 15A 120v devices, than I should put
one on each side/leg, and that I should give some thought as to how
devices may be used in combination as I add breakers for them. I
have never thought this through to this level before (and it's good
timing too). TYVM!
Bill

Don't over think it though, Bill. A great deal of what you will plug into a
wall outlet is not of sufficient load for you to analyse this to death.
Think about it - do you really worry about which leg a particular outlet is
on when you plug in a saw to cut a piece of wood?

--

-Mike-

Wiring running straight through a wall, at 90 degree angles to the
studs, doesn't need to be stapled ("every 4 1/2 feet") since it is
supported by the studs, correct?

Bill

In article , Bill wrote:
Wiring running straight through a wall, at 90 degree angles to the
studs, doesn't need to be stapled ("every 4 1/2 feet") since it is
supported by the studs, correct?

If by "running straight through a wall" you mean "running through holes bored
in the studs" then yes, that's correct.

I measured and cut 1by8 into a 65" running board, using an antique hand
saw for posterity. I hammered three 7d (2 1/4") nails into each end and
when I nailed it to the roof joists, the roof joists in between the ones
on the ends were each 1/8" to 1/2" away from the board. That could have
worked out far worse, but I ended up using 6 nails instead of the 15 I
had planned. It occurred to met that when I nail staples into the board
it may be wise support it from behind. I'm having about as much fun as
Lew could wish for me to have under such warm circumstances! No one
would want to be paying me by the hour, I just came in to look something
up...

Bill

Bill wrote:
Wiring running straight through a wall, at 90 degree angles to the
studs, doesn't need to be stapled ("every 4 1/2 feet") since it is
supported by the studs, correct?

Bill

Correct.

--

-Mike-

Bill wrote:
I measured and cut 1by8 into a 65" running board, using an antique
hand saw for posterity. I hammered three 7d (2 1/4") nails into each
end and when I nailed it to the roof joists, the roof joists in
between the ones on the ends were each 1/8" to 1/2" away from the
board. That could have worked out far worse, but I ended up using 6
nails instead of the 15 I had planned. It occurred to met that when
I nail staples into the board it may be wise support it from behind. I'm
having about as much fun as Lew could wish for me to have under
such warm circumstances! No one would want to be paying me by the
hour, I just came in to look something up...

Bill

Stick a couple of nails in every other joist - not just the ends. You won't
have to worry about a springy board then.

--

-Mike-

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:
I measured and cut 1by8 into a 65" running board, using an antique
hand saw for posterity. I hammered three 7d (2 1/4") nails into each
end and when I nailed it to the roof joists, the roof joists in
between the ones on the ends were each 1/8" to 1/2" away from the
board. That could have worked out far worse, but I ended up using 6
nails instead of the 15 I had planned.


Stick a couple of nails in every other joist - not just the ends. You won't
have to worry about a springy board then.

Okay, that means just one more joist. I just checked and hand pressure
will just about close the 3/8" gap there, so a few size 7d nails surely
will.

I'll try to post a couple pictures on my web page that I took with my
wife's camera just for fun. This was just the 2nd time I've used the
camera in 5 years so don't allow your expectations to get too high!

Thank you!
Bill

On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 15:36:07 -0400, Bill wrote the
following:

Bill wrote:
I'm still lacking in Internet access at home

Hey, it's nice to be hooked up again! I'm unable and unwilling to award
Comcast any accolades on their service, but for the time being I'm "back
in business".

Project-wise, last night I computed how much "wire-space" each of my
boxes requires and I am off to buy 12 boxes, a "running board" and
accessories.

BTW, for those that don't need to ever make a mock-up/model, I made one
with cardboard boxes for outlets and switches and convinced myself to
add an additional duplex outlet (making a total of 11 inside)--it must
have been the echo of your collective voices I heard in the still of the
moment!

Best make it an even -dozen- boxes, Bill. You don't want any
unbalanced legs, especially the one I'm pulling just now.

--
The most powerful factors in the world are clear ideas
in the minds of energetic men of good will.
-- J. Arthur Thomson

I put a few pictures of my "work in progress" on my website in case
anyone would like to see what I've been fussing about! : )
The 3 power receptacles on the bottom of the right wall are supposed to
be 220v but there have been 32/64 bit technical difficulties...

As you'll be able to see, I "installed" my first electrical outlet
today. I made 3 mistakes I won't make when I install my second
outlet--and no, one of them was not removing the stud from the garage!

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

Bill

Lookin' good!

I hope you will be adding a few more staples at the top of the studs. Those
wires are too loose, yet.

What type of bird is that?



"Bill" wrote in message
...

I put a few pictures of my "work in progress" on my website in case
anyone would like to see what I've been fussing about! : )
The 3 power receptacles on the bottom of the right wall are supposed to
be 220v but there have been 32/64 bit technical difficulties...

As you'll be able to see, I "installed" my first electrical outlet
today. I made 3 mistakes I won't make when I install my second
outlet--and no, one of them was not removing the stud from the garage!

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

Bill

Josepi wrote:
Lookin' good!

I hope you will be adding a few more staples at the top of the studs. Those
wires are too loose, yet.

What type of bird is that?

I'm informed it is a Yellow-shafted Northern Flicker. Our previous
apartment was 100 feet from a farm and we had alot of exotic visitors
(including possums). They all liked the feeding station.





wrote in message
...

I put a few pictures of my "work in progress" on my website in case
anyone would like to see what I've been fussing about! : )
The 3 power receptacles on the bottom of the right wall are supposed to
be 220v but there have been 32/64 bit technical difficulties...

As you'll be able to see, I "installed" my first electrical outlet
today. I made 3 mistakes I won't make when I install my second
outlet--and no, one of them was not removing the stud from the garage!

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

Bill

Update:

Following my installation of my "dummy" electrical outlet yesterday, I
learned I like the receptacle box to stick out exactly 1/2" passed the
stud. I went to two different Borgs looking for a small piece of 1/2"
pine or equivalent to use as a sort of fixture--but to my surprise,
there was none in sight (I prefer not to use plywood due to personal
sensitivities to the glue dust, et. al., YMMV).

On the way home, it occurred to me that I hadn't tried-out the 12.5"
planer I picked up at auction last fall. So I took the 2 foot cut-off of
a 1by8 left left over from cutting my running board yesterday and passed
it through about 5 times. My Harbor Freight Centrum digital caliper, a
measuring instrument well-regarded for its precision, and also out for
its maiden usage, indicated it was within .02" of 1/2". Accuracy was
validated with a ruler and a 1/2" piece of drywall. BTW, it was nice
that the digital caliper came with an extra battery as I needed it.

I got out my also here-to-fore unused B&D circular saw, $7 at
auction--blade and drywall square included, and made sure the blade was
tight. I plugged it in and was pleased to see it ran. I cut out two
small rectangular pieces of my home-planed 1/2" stock and nailed their
faces together so that they overlapped. I expect to hold one piece
against a stud while I position and nail a new receptacle box in an
optimal position relative to the corresponding stud. I'll find out how
well it works as many as 11 times tomorrow.

I did a few other things too, but nothing that involved 3 "new" tools!
BTW, that drywall square has been darn handy. I've seen recently
that it would also be nice to have all of 1 foot, 2 foot, 3 foot, 4 foot
and 6 foot steel rules too, but I guess ya can't have everything...

Bill

Bill wrote:
Update:

Following my installation of my "dummy" electrical outlet yesterday, I
learned I like the receptacle box to stick out exactly 1/2" passed the
stud. I went to two different Borgs looking for a small piece of 1/2"
pine or equivalent to use as a sort of fixture--but to my surprise,
there was none in sight (I prefer not to use plywood due to personal
sensitivities to the glue dust, et. al., YMMV).


snip

For "new" electrical installations I prefer to use the depth adjustable
boxes similar to :

http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-...atalogId=10053


--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

Bill wrote:
Update:

Following my installation of my "dummy" electrical outlet yesterday, I
learned I like the receptacle box to stick out exactly 1/2" passed the
stud. I went to two different Borgs looking for a small piece of
1/2" pine or equivalent to use as a sort of fixture--but to my
surprise, there was none in sight (I prefer not to use plywood due to
personal sensitivities to the glue dust, et. al., YMMV).


I snipped your afternoon's pleasure with the power tools Bill, but thought I
might share with you that your boxes have indicators on them for various
thicknesses of sheetrock. Just hold the up to the right indicator and mount
them.

--

-Mike-

On 7/3/2010 12:44 AM, Bill wrote:
Update:

Following my installation of my "dummy" electrical outlet yesterday, I
learned I like the receptacle box to stick out exactly 1/2" passed the
stud. I went to two different Borgs looking for a small piece of 1/2"
pine or equivalent to use as a sort of fixture--but to my surprise,
there was none in sight (I prefer not to use plywood due to personal
sensitivities to the glue dust, et. al., YMMV).

1/2 is a nonstandard thickness. If you want that store bought you need
to try a hobby shop that stocks Midwest Micro-Wood or the like, or find
a hardwood yard that will plane to order.

On the way home, it occurred to me that I hadn't tried-out the 12.5"
planer I picked up at auction last fall. So I took the 2 foot cut-off of
a 1by8 left left over from cutting my running board yesterday and passed
it through about 5 times.

Geez, you've got a planer? With that you can have any thickness you
want. In Britain they call it a "thicknesser".

If you have a bandsaw you can cut down on wastage though--resaw to
approximate thickness then fine-tune with the planer.

My Harbor Freight Centrum digital caliper, a
measuring instrument well-regarded for its precision, and also out for
its maiden usage, indicated it was within .02" of 1/2". Accuracy was
validated with a ruler and a 1/2" piece of drywall. BTW, it was nice
that the digital caliper came with an extra battery as I needed it.

I got out my also here-to-fore unused B&D circular saw, $7 at
auction--blade and drywall square included, and made sure the blade was
tight. I plugged it in and was pleased to see it ran. I cut out two
small rectangular pieces of my home-planed 1/2" stock and nailed their
faces together so that they overlapped. I expect to hold one piece
against a stud while I position and nail a new receptacle box in an
optimal position relative to the corresponding stud. I'll find out how
well it works as many as 11 times tomorrow.

I did a few other things too, but nothing that involved 3 "new" tools!
BTW, that drywall square has been darn handy. I've seen recently that
it would also be nice to have all of 1 foot, 2 foot, 3 foot, 4 foot and
6 foot steel rules too, but I guess ya can't have everything...

Bill

Mike Marlow wrote:

I snipped your afternoon's pleasure with the power tools Bill, but thought I
might share with you that your boxes have indicators on them for various
thicknesses of sheetrock. Just hold the up to the right indicator and mount
them.


Yes, my 20.3 in^3 boxes have small lines at 1/4", 3/8", etc. but using
them won't be as accurate as my fixture. I have not developed the
trained eye that you have (in fact, my vision is not perfect). My 30.4
double-gang boxes are marked at 3/8" (not 1/2")--and all of one ones at
the store (Menards) seemed to be. I was actually going to go with metal
boxes but my uncle talked me into plastic. The outlets look differently
at 7/16" and 1/2", and as I'm going to have 22 outlets on two walls, I'm
striving for consistency. If they don't go up the way I want, I'll get
different ones.

Thank you,
Bill

Nova wrote:
Bill wrote:
Update:

Following my installation of my "dummy" electrical outlet yesterday, I
learned I like the receptacle box to stick out exactly 1/2" passed the
stud. I went to two different Borgs looking for a small piece of 1/2"
pine or equivalent to use as a sort of fixture--but to my surprise,
there was none in sight (I prefer not to use plywood due to personal
sensitivities to the glue dust, et. al., YMMV).


snip

For "new" electrical installations I prefer to use the depth adjustable
boxes similar to :

http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-...atalogId=10053


Those look handy!

Bill

J. Clarke wrote:

Geez, you've got a planer? With that you can have any thickness you
want. In Britain they call it a "thicknesser".

If you have a bandsaw you can cut down on wastage though--resaw to
approximate thickness then fine-tune with the planer.

Good idea. Thanks! I got a great deal on a BS I'm eager to assemble
as soon as I'm done with this electrical project! : )

Bill

On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 14:38:19 -0400, Bill wrote:

Nova wrote:
Bill wrote:
Update:

Following my installation of my "dummy" electrical outlet yesterday, I
learned I like the receptacle box to stick out exactly 1/2" passed the
stud. I went to two different Borgs looking for a small piece of 1/2"
pine or equivalent to use as a sort of fixture--but to my surprise,
there was none in sight (I prefer not to use plywood due to personal
sensitivities to the glue dust, et. al., YMMV).


snip

For "new" electrical installations I prefer to use the depth adjustable
boxes similar to :

http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-...atalogId=10053


Those look handy!

I guess if you think $4.30 for a $.30 box is handy. ;-)

On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 14:37:37 -0400, Bill wrote:

Mike Marlow wrote:

I snipped your afternoon's pleasure with the power tools Bill, but thought I
might share with you that your boxes have indicators on them for various
thicknesses of sheetrock. Just hold the up to the right indicator and mount
them.


Yes, my 20.3 in^3 boxes have small lines at 1/4", 3/8", etc. but using
them won't be as accurate as my fixture. I have not developed the
trained eye that you have (in fact, my vision is not perfect). My 30.4
double-gang boxes are marked at 3/8" (not 1/2")--and all of one ones at
the store (Menards) seemed to be. I was actually going to go with metal
boxes but my uncle talked me into plastic. The outlets look differently
at 7/16" and 1/2", and as I'm going to have 22 outlets on two walls, I'm
striving for consistency. If they don't go up the way I want, I'll get
different ones.

The boxes I've used have tangs on the back set back 1/2". These go against
the front of the two-by and then the nails get driven home. When the
sheetrock goes up and the wall plates attached, everything looks fine.

On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 14:43:19 -0400, Bill wrote:

J. Clarke wrote:

Geez, you've got a planer? With that you can have any thickness you
want. In Britain they call it a "thicknesser".

If you have a bandsaw you can cut down on wastage though--resaw to
approximate thickness then fine-tune with the planer.

Good idea. Thanks! I got a great deal on a BS I'm eager to assemble
as soon as I'm done with this electrical project! : )

Which one? I'll likely buy a band saw after I get my shop done, or at least
usable. ...hopefully towards the end of the year. It'll probably be
September before I get any more done, though.

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 14:43:19 -0400, wrote:

J. Clarke wrote:

Geez, you've got a planer? With that you can have any thickness you
want. In Britain they call it a "thicknesser".

If you have a bandsaw you can cut down on wastage though--resaw to
approximate thickness then fine-tune with the planer.

Good idea. Thanks! I got a great deal on a BS I'm eager to assemble
as soon as I'm done with this electrical project! : )

Which one? I'll likely buy a band saw after I get my shop done, or at least
usable. ...hopefully towards the end of the year.

As I understand it, Lowes is switching over from Delta tools to
Porter-Cable tools--this process seems to be happening at different
speeds at different locales. I picked up the Delta 14" BS, as part of
my store's clearance sale, new-in-box, for $150. I may pick up the Delta
drill press (Model 17-959d) once I get my shop in order. Woodcraft and
others offer it for $579--that seems to be the "minimum advertised
price". My current electrical project is keeping me occupied, but I'll
get a DP when I need it to drill mortises.

I installed almost all of my 11 new electrical boxes today. The simple
fixture I made yesterday from 1/2" stock worked well. I used a specially
cut 2by4 as an additional fixture to establish uniform height and I
stacked 3/32" thickness of paper on it to account for 3/16" difference
in box height where necessary. I made several uses of my Starrett
combination square that I got for Christmas. Today was the first day I
used it, and the feeling of quality impressed me. My 3/32" stack of
paper truly was.

I squandered a lot of time on one box that I didn't fit at 90 degrees to
the stud (those nail holes have a lot of memory). I ended up replacing
it with a metal box w/bracket. I have to say I am impressed with the
quality that is built into the metal box w/bracket.


Swingman: You are right, making jigs/fixtures is most satisfying.
I took a picture today which you may appreciate. I'll post it after I
make significant progress.

I wish you all a fine Independence Day, whatever you do to celebrate it.
The UPS man arrived with 3 boxes of 48" rockets with 1/2" dowels today!

Bill

Bill wrote:

I squandered a lot of time on one box that I didn't fit at 90 degrees to
the stud (those nail holes have a lot of memory).

Actually, I didn't fit it at 90 degrees to the "face" of the stud--I
introduced some "curl" (bad!).

Effective writing for this forum requires a good bit of thought sometimes!

Bill

Bill wrote in :


As I understand it, Lowes is switching over from Delta tools to
Porter-Cable tools--this process seems to be happening at different
speeds at different locales. I picked up the Delta 14" BS, as part of
my store's clearance sale, new-in-box, for $150. I may pick up the
Delta drill press (Model 17-959d) once I get my shop in order.
Woodcraft and others offer it for $579--that seems to be the "minimum
advertised price". My current electrical project is keeping me
occupied, but I'll get a DP when I need it to drill mortises.

Does your local Lowes have the 17-959 on sale? I've been thinking about
upgrading my drill press (a $100 Ryobi benchtop) to something more
substantial. If yours does, maybe mine will too. (You're in Indy, right?
I'm left of Indy about 300 miles.)

I'll definately take a look next time I'm in there.

*snip*


Bill



Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.

On 7/4/2010 4:25 AM, Bill wrote:
zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 14:43:19 -0400, wrote:

J. Clarke wrote:

Geez, you've got a planer? With that you can have any thickness you
want. In Britain they call it a "thicknesser".

If you have a bandsaw you can cut down on wastage though--resaw to
approximate thickness then fine-tune with the planer.

Good idea. Thanks! I got a great deal on a BS I'm eager to assemble
as soon as I'm done with this electrical project! : )

Which one? I'll likely buy a band saw after I get my shop done, or at
least
usable. ...hopefully towards the end of the year.

As I understand it, Lowes is switching over from Delta tools to
Porter-Cable tools--this process seems to be happening at different
speeds at different locales. I picked up the Delta 14" BS, as part of my
store's clearance sale, new-in-box, for $150.

That's a good price. If there was that kind of deal when I was shopping
I'd have certainly gone that way.

I may pick up the Delta
drill press (Model 17-959d) once I get my shop in order. Woodcraft and
others offer it for $579--that seems to be the "minimum advertised
price". My current electrical project is keeping me occupied, but I'll
get a DP when I need it to drill mortises.

I installed almost all of my 11 new electrical boxes today. The simple
fixture I made yesterday from 1/2" stock worked well. I used a specially
cut 2by4 as an additional fixture to establish uniform height and I
stacked 3/32" thickness of paper on it to account for 3/16" difference
in box height where necessary. I made several uses of my Starrett
combination square that I got for Christmas. Today was the first day I
used it, and the feeling of quality impressed me.

That is a superb tool. I got one backalong when I realized that my
cheap combination square wasn't even close to square and was getting
less so every time I used it. Do take some Boeshield or bowling alley
wax or something to the head, and if you didn't get the stainless steel
blade to the blade as well. It does rust if you let it.

My 3/32" stack of
paper truly was.

I squandered a lot of time on one box that I didn't fit at 90 degrees to
the stud (those nail holes have a lot of memory). I ended up replacing
it with a metal box w/bracket. I have to say I am impressed with the
quality that is built into the metal box w/bracket.


Swingman: You are right, making jigs/fixtures is most satisfying.
I took a picture today which you may appreciate. I'll post it after I
make significant progress.

I wish you all a fine Independence Day, whatever you do to celebrate it.
The UPS man arrived with 3 boxes of 48" rockets with 1/2" dowels today!

Bill

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 14:38:19 -0400, Bill wrote:

Nova wrote:
Bill wrote:
Update:

Following my installation of my "dummy" electrical outlet
yesterday, I learned I like the receptacle box to stick out
exactly 1/2" passed the stud. I went to two different Borgs
looking for a small piece of 1/2" pine or equivalent to use as a
sort of fixture--but to my surprise, there was none in sight (I
prefer not to use plywood due to personal sensitivities to the
glue dust, et. al., YMMV).


snip

For "new" electrical installations I prefer to use the depth
adjustable boxes similar to :

http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-...atalogId=10053


Those look handy!

I guess if you think $4.30 for a $.30 box is handy. ;-)

That's what I was thinking. Man - that's one expensive box.

--

-Mike-

"Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message
...
Bill wrote in :


As I understand it, Lowes is switching over from Delta tools to
Porter-Cable tools--this process seems to be happening at different
speeds at different locales. I picked up the Delta 14" BS, as part of
my store's clearance sale, new-in-box, for $150. I may pick up the
Delta drill press (Model 17-959d) once I get my shop in order.
Woodcraft and others offer it for $579--that seems to be the "minimum
advertised price". My current electrical project is keeping me
occupied, but I'll get a DP when I need it to drill mortises.

Does your local Lowes have the 17-959 on sale? I've been thinking about
upgrading my drill press (a $100 Ryobi benchtop) to something more
substantial. If yours does, maybe mine will too. (You're in Indy, right?
I'm left of Indy about 300 miles.)

I'll definately take a look next time I'm in there.

*snip*


Bill



Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.

Just to muddy the decision a bit, but have you looked at a used older
commercial/industrial machine?
I was looking for a drill press myself. I looked for a long time as the 3/4
HP Jet I had was getting me by. I finally ran accross a 1970's vintage
Powermatic 1200, for $600. The only down fall was the PM 1200 came with a 3
phase motor, but I had a spare Variable frquency drive laying around that
converted 240 single phase into the 208 3 phase the 1200 needed. Also the
motor could have been replaced with a single phase motor.

http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/w...201200/VFD.jpg

http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/w...LRleftside.jpg

I looked for 2-3 years before this drill press came along, and I am sure I
am done looking!
Just something to consider!
Greg

Bill writes:
wrote:
On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 14:43:19 -0400, wrote:

J. Clarke wrote:

Geez, you've got a planer? With that you can have any thickness you
want. In Britain they call it a "thicknesser".

If you have a bandsaw you can cut down on wastage though--resaw to
approximate thickness then fine-tune with the planer.

Good idea. Thanks! I got a great deal on a BS I'm eager to assemble
as soon as I'm done with this electrical project! : )

Which one? I'll likely buy a band saw after I get my shop done, or at least
usable. ...hopefully towards the end of the year.

As I understand it, Lowes is switching over from Delta tools to
Porter-Cable tools--this process seems to be happening at different

Delta == Porter Cable (http://www.deltaportercable.com/)

speeds at different locales. I picked up the Delta 14" BS, as part of
my store's clearance sale, new-in-box, for $150.

That is a good deal.

scott