Charlie Self wrote:

I guess comparatively speaking, maybe, but I wouldn't characterize this as
an urban area.

Oh, I dunno. Except I did get a good whiff of the barns as I ran the
bypass this morning.

Yeah, lotsa urban cow pastures around here.

Compared to my area of Bedford, you're urban. Compared to Bedford service,

We're the second most urban area in southwestern Virginia, I'd say. We're
quickly turning into Roanoke's bedroom. They closed the police academy and
started sending cops to Salem to learn urban warfare tactics.

Yeah, I guess we're becoming urban.

you're urban. It's going to cost me $99 a month for a damned satellite
hook-up, which essentially means I'm staying with a phone modem for the
foreseeable future unless I hit the lottery.

Yeah, well, wah. I can't afford broadband either. I don't have that
many options for that matter. Adelphia cable or modem. No DSL (ever), and
I can't use that satellite stuff either since I don't run Windows.

I'm used to it though. I've never used broadband except at my kids' school.
Sad when my web page loads faster off the net than it does off my own damn
hard drive. Those kids are spoiled. Won't even use the computer at home,
because it's too slow.

He might still have it. Should I try to sell it on eBay?

Hey, especially if you've got the box. All kidding aside, but it on with
NR, but a 10 buck starting bid and see what happens.

I can't sell anything on eBay anyway. My finances are a mess, and I don't
have any open credit accounts. Last time I checked, you had to have a
credit card so they could take their commission. I don't have that much to
sell anyway.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

George wrote:

No, I mean kids. The high-schoolers who, according to popular notions
have to teach their elders how to use technology, but in reality know only
GUIs, and in some cases don't even realize that the toolbars are common
across many programs, but instead keep bashing about, locking up machines.

Oh, OK then. I'll agree with you there then. These whippersnappers have no
idea how to do anything if they can't pointy clicky it. They're all
completely insulated from the underlying technology, and have no idea how
anything works.

It's a whole different world now. I worked on my boss's daughter's
computer. When I took it over to his house to set it back up, she was
there with a bunch of her little teenie bopper friends. They were tripping
over themselves with excitement at the prospect of her getting her computer
back, so they could chat again.

Teenage girls getting excited about a *computer*? O_o

I was born 20 years too soon. Back when I was that age, I was getting
beaten up for being a computer nerd.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Larry Blanchard wrote:

Same deal with the University of Berlin server I was talking about a bit

Correct. It is the same server. Great free newsfeed of non-binary
groups.

Makes me feel a little guilty every time I hear how broke Germany is though.
Why are the German taxpayers paying for me to have a free news server? I
don't get it.

It's not like they don't know who and where I am though.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Larry Jaques wrote:

files. Hell, I remember back when an operating system
fit on a single-sided 5-1/4" floppy. (Dad's Kaypro w/ CPM)
Ask your kids about those for a laugh.

A friend had a Kaypro. One of those "almost" compatibles, right?

I still have a 5.25" floppy drive around here somewhere.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

wrote:

Most websites that claim to have free clipart are more likely to lockup
your computer with popup ads then deliver the goods.
But the usenet binary clipart group is still going strong.

Lock up your computer with popup adds? Yeesh. I sure don't miss Windows.

I haven't seen a popup in years, and my computer hasn't locked up since I
finally figured out and tweaked a BIOS setting around 18 months ago or so.

I miss the games sometimes though. Linux games universally suck.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

wrote:

Yep voice controlled games over 20 years ago.

Did it work any better than the thing for my CoCo? I remember going through
the trainer.

Bah-LOO flashes orange
Bah-LOO flashes red
Bah-LOO flashes purple
Bah-LOO flashes blue
Bah-LOO flashes blue
Bah-LOO flashes orange


--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 01:19:47 -0500, Silvan
wrote:

I hate web forums. For one thing, you have to either type in an editor and
then copy/paste onto the form, or else use the crappy editor built into the
form. That's probably my #1 reason for hating all such things web-based.

I don't mind some web forums, I am active in a couple, but for the
most part, web forums are very slow moving and you're right, some have
very heavy handed moderation. I've dropped out of at least one major
forum because the moderators simply started ending threads and
deleting posts they didn't personally agree with.

Personally, I hate moderation. I wouldn't live in a gated community, or one
where there was a homeowner's association either. One of my neighbors lets
his grass grow so high he has to bush hog it every second year, but so the
hell what? I don't get to tell him to mow it, and he doesn't get to tell
me what color I can paint my shed, or how large my mailbox is allowed to
be. Suits me just fine.

When we were looking at houses, the #1 requirement was no HOAs. I
don't want anyone telling me what to do with my house, I don't want
them telling me what I can and can't post either, within reason. I
think you have to have some kind of moderation or means of
self-moderating the forum, just to deal with the spam and trolls. I'd
personally rather do it myself, but so long as actual on-topic content
isn't disturbed, I'm content with almost anything.

On 23 Nov 2003 10:32:38 -0800, (edfan) wrote:

I think so many newsgroups have been taken over by spammers and
hatemongers, it's tough to waste so much time wading through the muck.
This newsgroup has been better than average but there are dozens of
others that have succumbed. Everywhere you go, it's porn, spam, get
rich quick schemes, JUNK. It's not hard to understand why users have
been leaving in droves.

It's no different today than it's always been. It'd been over a
decade since I just downloaded everything in any Usenet group. I pull
headers and download only those threads that I want to read. I rarely
ever see spam because it's obvious in the subject. Spam never gets
pulled.

It saves me time and frustration and is simple to do. Why everyone
doesn't do the same thing, I don't know.

Silvan asks:

A friend had a Kaypro. One of those "almost" compatibles, right?

No. cp/m was not intended as a compatible. It was there first, meant to become
the big dog on the block, and using it almost cost KayPro its shirt, which it
later lost anyway, IIRC.

That portable cp/m machine was a delight. And weigh 22 pounds. Keyboard snap
latched to the 7" screen/case/cpu. Green screen. IIRC, you also had a choice of
amber, but at extra cost. I went for green. The package, with a Juki ball head
printer, cost me almost $2400 (Colonial Computers, Salem).

Charlie Self

"Analyzing humor is like dissecting a frog. Few people are interested and the
frog dies of it." E. B. White

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 01:18:18 -0500, Silvan
wrote:


I haven't seen a popup in years,

Neither have I, _with_ windows. G

Zone Alarm and the Google tool bar as a team do a wonderful job of
canning pop-ups.

Barry

Brian Henderson wrote:

It's no different today than it's always been. It'd been over a

That's not really true. Back before the doors were opened to the public at
large, spammers got kicked off the net after just one or two
transgressions. When the net was purely for academic purposes, anything
smacking of commercialism was dealt with swiftly, and with a very heavy
hand. We hadn't even invented the term "spam" yet, I don't think. No one
had ever seen a top post either.

OTOH, the revolution got me back online, so I can't complain too loudly.
Plus now that the web has matured, there's a lot of stuff out there that
just wasn't around a decade ago. Kids today have it easy when it comes to
doing research. Want to know about the JPL? Go to their web site...

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Charlie Self wrote:

Silvan asks:

A friend had a Kaypro. One of those "almost" compatibles, right?

No. cp/m was not intended as a compatible. It was there first, meant to
become the big dog on the block, and using it almost cost KayPro its
shirt, which it later lost anyway, IIRC.

OK, the one I'm thinking of was a green screen deal, no hard drives, and the
guy was trying to run DOS 3.x on it IIRC. Kept having minor problems with
stuff not working, and decided the computer was a chucker. It was a
hand-me-down by that point.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

"Tom Watson" wrote ...
I read someone's comment the other day about how their ISP claimed
that "no one uses newsgroups anymore." snip for brevity

I wouldn't be surprised if the recent growth in number and type of these PHP
MySQL based forum web sites (like sawmillcreek.org) and other forums like
woodcentral.com began stealing people away from USENET. Younger people seem
to prefer them. The tech types that run them like to play with pretty
colors and emoticons so they are a lot flashier and, being web based, may be
easier to find for the computer challenged. I don't think they will kill
off USENET but the ISP's will continue to ignore it and save $$$, favoring
the forums because they don't have to worry about monitoring abuse and troll
activity - the web site owner will have to do that. Simplifies their job
and saves money.

--

Cheers,
Howard

----------------------------------------------------------
Working wood in New Jersey -
Visit me in the woodshop - www.inthewoodshop.org

I think the ISPs in some cases just don't want to be bothered with
usenet. I haven't seen any figures but I'd be surprised if there were
not more newsgroups and people reading news than ever before.




--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland

In article ,
says...
Better now?

Yes!

I really hate Microsoft....

Ditto

CharlesJ
--
================================================== ======================
Charles Jones | Works at HP, | email:
Hewlett-Packard | doesn't speak | ICQ: 29610755
Loveland, Colorado | for HP | AIM: LovelandCharles
USA | |Jabber:

On 24 Nov 2003 10:36:24 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:

Silvan asks:

A friend had a Kaypro. One of those "almost" compatibles, right?

No. cp/m was not intended as a compatible. It was there first, meant to become
the big dog on the block, and using it almost cost KayPro its shirt, which it
later lost anyway, IIRC.

That portable cp/m machine was a delight. And weigh 22 pounds. Keyboard snap
latched to the 7" screen/case/cpu. Green screen. IIRC, you also had a choice of
amber, but at extra cost. I went for green. The package, with a Juki ball head
printer, cost me almost $2400 (Colonial Computers, Salem).


Ah, yes. Shades of my Osborne 1. Still stored around here somewhere. I
wonder if the floppy disks will still read after 10 years or so.

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

Tim Douglass responds:

latched to the 7" screen/case/cpu. Green screen. IIRC, you also had a choice
of
amber, but at extra cost. I went for green. The package, with a Juki ball
head
printer, cost me almost $2400 (Colonial Computers, Salem).


Ah, yes. Shades of my Osborne 1. Still stored around here somewhere. I
wonder if the floppy disks will still read after 10 years or so.


I cheated. I bought a PC (KayPro, natch), and sold the cp/m KP to a guy who was
setting up a garbage pick-up business. AFAIK, he was perfectly happy with it
for some time.

The PC was an 8 mHz (a speedster, though, as it ran at 10 mHz), 640K, with a 20
meg hard drive (went belly up in 3 months, so I laid out an extra $315 for a 32
meg drive). I refused to lay out $1100 to fill out the 640K to 1 meg.

Cost about the same as the KayPro cp/m had a couple years earlier.

Charlie Self

"Analyzing humor is like dissecting a frog. Few people are interested and the
frog dies of it." E. B. White

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 08:27:17 -0800, wrote:


Shut off your firewall and popup killers and see what happens to the great
unwashed when they are foolish enough to attempt to find free clipart via the
web.
Besides the popups, so much spy ware is installed it grinds systems to almost a
standstill.

That's exactly the point! G

To me, using a computer without proper firewall / spyware / pop-up
killer / antivirus protection is like trying to rip lumber on a
fenceless tablesaw.

You may be able to do it for a while, but sooner or later, it's going
to cause problems. G

Barry

wrote:

Shut off your firewall and popup killers and see what happens to the great
unwashed when they are foolish enough to attempt to find free clipart via
the web.

It would be annoying, but it *still* wouldn't crash my computer.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

wrote:

Usenet customers are generally heavy bandwidth users as well.

Why, snarfing porn?

I'm a very low bandwidth customer as far as usenet goes. Connect for 20
minutes, download all my articles, hang up. If it weren't for my running
Debian and updating it all by modem periodically, my ISP would love me. (A
big update takes about 36 hours of continuous downloading... I'm patient
enough to put up with it though, and it's a damn sight cheaper than cable.)

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Charlie Self wrote:

Cost about the same as the KayPro cp/m had a couple years earlier.

$2500 was always about what it took to get a new computer of any quality.

I guess maybe it still is, but I can't imagine anyone *needing* what $2500
gets you these days. The Wal-Mart after Thanksgiving cheapass piece of
crap computer this year is a 2.7 GHz Celeron with 256 MB of RAM, a 40 GB
hard drive, and a 17" monitor. Eghads. That's what a $498 computer looks
like today?

Mine is a l'il ol' 1 GHz. Considering that about all I do with it is browse
the web by modem and read usenet, I can't see upgrading it for many years
to come. I'll probably get a 10 GHz box for $498 when I do.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

B a r r y B u r k e J r . wrote:

killer / antivirus protection is like trying to rip lumber on a
fenceless tablesaw.

You may be able to do it for a while, but sooner or later, it's going
to cause problems. G

Yeah, don't ever try that either... I was in a hurry, didn't need a
precise cut... WHAM. At least I wasn't standing in front of it.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

In article ,
Bay Area Dave wrote:
There were approximately 11 MILLION messages posted in the last 30 days.
How does that square with your ISP's comments? IT DOESN'T!! Perhaps
they are shirking their duties as "providers" with less than stellar
support of the NG's.

dave

*snork* 11 million messages in 30 days is a drop in the bucket. A *full*
newsfeed these days (circa 45,000 newsgroups) requires most of the bandwidth
of a dedicated T-3 circuit, 24 hrs/day. That is 45 mbit/sec, or 9 Mbyte/sec.
The full feed is probably only about 600 *GIGABYTES* of traffic _per_day_.

Well over 90% of that traffic is in the 'alt.binaries.*' hierarchy -- the
vast majority of which is "dirty pictures", stolen computer software, etc.
5-10 _million_ MESSAGES PER DAY, *just* in 'alt.binaries.*' hierarchy, is
probably realistic, And _at_least_as_many_more_ for the rest of USENET.



Those who do 'know about' USENET tend to use it fairly heavily. Those who
"don't know" about it, _don't_use_it_ (oddly enough!

Those who "don't know" outnumber those who "do know", by a ratio that is
probably 'in the _thousands_' to one, if not higher.

Statistic: My provider has around a million customers. at _peak_times_
there are a couple of _hundred_ connections active to the news server.
in the middle of the night, that number is around a -dozen-.





Tom Watson wrote:

I read someone's comment the other day about how their ISP claimed
that "no one uses newsgroups anymore."

My own ISP has made the same comment to me when I've called to
complain about inadequate Newsgroup service. They seem to feel that
their customer base uses Usenet in only a marginal fashion. They act
as though they couldn't be bothered.

This newsgroup, in particular, seems to be vibrant and well
subscribed. The chess newgroups that I lurk on seem to be in the same
condition.

When I look at the Netscan statistics, I see signs that there are many
active groups.

Why this attitude by the ISP's?

I use two newsgroup providers, TeraNews being my backup, because my
ISP's provider is often out of whack. TeraNews is fine for a backup
but is often down.

However, I've had complaints from some that they don't see my posts
when they come through my ISP's provider (Voicenet, I believe) because
their system does not pick up the posts.

I've tried reading the group through Google but it seems to have a lot
of lag time between the time that posts are made and when they show up
on Google.

What is going on with this Usenet thing? Are the ISP's right in
claiming that Usenet is dying? And, given that the ISP's don't care,
what is the most reliable way to read and post on Usenet?


Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

Silvan writes:

$2500 was always about what it took to get a new computer of any quality.

I guess maybe it still is, but I can't imagine anyone *needing* what $2500
gets you these days. The Wal-Mart after Thanksgiving cheapass piece of
crap computer this year is a 2.7 GHz Celeron with 256 MB of RAM, a 40 GB
hard drive, and a 17" monitor. Eghads. That's what a $498 computer looks
like today?

It makes my head hurt. I got a new computer about 6 months ago. 3 gig Pentium
4; 1 gig of RAM, 120 gig hard drive. Same old monitor. The thing has some
extras, fast CD burner (no DVD: save that for later, when the prices are down
in the CD range), I had them add a floppy drive, something like 6 USB 2 ports,
modem, network card, couple things I'd have to look up. $1700. For the original
$2500, I think I could have replaced my 19" monitor with a 21" or gotten a good
19" LCD. I got this because I was doing more and more digital photography, and
the loads with the older machine were eating on my nerves.

My wife got my old 1 gig Pentium 3. That has only 3/4 gig of RAM. I've found
over the years that the best and cheapest speed-up is adding RAM.

The youngest kid got the machine my wife had been using (300 mHz?).

Keep it in the family and recycle.

I built both those older machines, so they were a lot cheaper. This time
around, I let George do it.

Charlie Self

"If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would
promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:44:20 -0500, Silvan
wrote:

Charlie Self wrote:

Cost about the same as the KayPro cp/m had a couple years earlier.

$2500 was always about what it took to get a new computer of any quality.

I guess maybe it still is, but I can't imagine anyone *needing* what $2500
gets you these days.

For my buck, a $500 computer does all I need. This consists of light
CAD, the web, usenet, Quicken, Word, Excel, Front Page, Corel Photo
Paint, several GPS mapping apps, email, CD burning, etc... The
Celeron even acts as my file server for the 4 station LAN in my home.

I don't do pro video editing or anything like that. I play games on
my $200 PS2. G

My last two machines were $3k.

Barry

B a r r y B u r k e J r . wrote:

For my buck, a $500 computer does all I need. This consists of light

Yeah, me too, and then some. I guess if a 2.7 GHz deal is a $500 computer
now, mine is worth $50.

I don't do pro video editing or anything like that. I play games on
my $200 PS2. G

Me too, though I rarely even play games on that. I haven't had it plugged
in since May or so.

My last two machines were $3k.

I paid $1300 for this one. Probably closer to $2,000 for the P166 before
it. That one is still in use too, as a dedicated X terminal. I can't see
needing faster for a diskless workstation, so I'm probably going to buy it
a new power supply to keep it running a few more years. The power supply
in that thing dates back to when I was in high school, and it's getting
tired.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Charlie Self wrote:

I built both those older machines, so they were a lot cheaper. This time
around, I let George do it.

Me too, incidentally. I used to build'em myself, spec every part, tweak,
diddle, and massage for the ultimate performance.

Now it's just not worth the headache of making sure this will work with
that. I got my last computer at a local place. It cost the same whether I
had them build it or not, so I let them do it.

Not sure what I'll do next time, since I don't want to pay the Microsoft
tax, and they don't like to build computers without operating systems. I
guess I'll worry about it later.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Silvan states:

needing faster for a diskless workstation, so I'm probably going to buy it
a new power supply to keep it running a few more years. The power supply
in that thing dates back to when I was in high school, and it's getting
tired.

Last year? Seriously, if it will work, I've got an almost unused Enright
(HPC-250-101) that is just taking up space. Pay the shipping and it's yours.

Charlie Self

"If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would
promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken

On 25-Nov-2003, (Robert Bonomi) wrote:

The full feed is probably only about 600 *GIGABYTES* of traffic _per_day_.

I distinctly remember when a local sysop was complaining that if Usenet
continued to grow, he'd have to upgrade to a 20MB drive to contain it.
That was an $800 upgrade for a clone!

Mike

Tim Douglass wrote in message . ..
On 24 Nov 2003 10:36:24 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:

Silvan asks:

A friend had a Kaypro. One of those "almost" compatibles, right?

No. cp/m was not intended as a compatible. It was there first, meant to become
the big dog on the block, and using it almost cost KayPro its shirt, which it
later lost anyway, IIRC.

That portable cp/m machine was a delight. And weigh 22 pounds. Keyboard snap
latched to the 7" screen/case/cpu. Green screen. IIRC, you also had a choice of
amber, but at extra cost. I went for green. The package, with a Juki ball head
printer, cost me almost $2400 (Colonial Computers, Salem).


Ah, yes. Shades of my Osborne 1. Still stored around here somewhere. I
wonder if the floppy disks will still read after 10 years or so.

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

I remember the Osborne well. The first computer I ever used. Supercalc
( a CPM based forerunner to Lotus - Excel). Memory so small that a
simple depreciation schedule required 4 spreadsheets and macro
automation between them - got me a A in that Graduate Accounting
course though. It was a Portable - if portable meant breaking you arm
to lug it from one electric outlet to another.

Dave Hall

Dave Hall writes:


I remember the Osborne well. The first computer I ever used. Supercalc
( a CPM based forerunner to Lotus - Excel). Memory so small that a
simple depreciation schedule required 4 spreadsheets and macro
automation between them - got me a A in that Graduate Accounting
course though. It was a Portable - if portable meant breaking you arm
to lug it from one electric outlet to another.


Yeah. I remember that now: forgot to add, you needed to plug the "portable" in.
I took my KayPro to the Hardware Show in Chi one year...I think my arm was 2"
longer before I got home.

Charlie Self

"If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would
promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken

Charlie Self wrote:

Last year? Seriously, if it will work, I've got an almost unused Enright

Feels like it was about 500 million years ago, but I graduated from high
school in 1990. The power supply is probably from 1987 or so.

(HPC-250-101) that is just taking up space. Pay the shipping and it's
yours.

I have no idea what that particular power supply is, but if it fits an
AT-style case I'll be glad to take you up on that!

After the holidays though, probably. The power supply is low priority, and
money is distressingly tight right now. Had some unexpected and unwelcome
expenses, and SWMBO's work box is right out the window. So too probably my
scroll saw.

I feel another rant about ****ty health insurance coming on, so I'd better
shut up. Appreciate the offer though, just bad timing right now...

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Silvan notes:

(HPC-250-101) that is just taking up space. Pay the shipping and it's
yours.

I have no idea what that particular power supply is, but if it fits an
AT-style case I'll be glad to take you up on that!

After the holidays though, probably. The power supply is low priority, and
money is distressingly tight right now. Had some unexpected and unwelcome
expenses, and SWMBO's work box is right out the window. So too probably my
scroll saw.

No rush. See if Enright has a site and see if that model will fit your machine.
It should, I think.

Charlie Self

"If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would
promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:03:43 -0500, Silvan
wrote:

That's not really true. Back before the doors were opened to the public at
large, spammers got kicked off the net after just one or two
transgressions. When the net was purely for academic purposes, anything
smacking of commercialism was dealt with swiftly, and with a very heavy
hand. We hadn't even invented the term "spam" yet, I don't think. No one
had ever seen a top post either.

Since the net has been open to the general public then. You're right,
when I first got access to Usenet back in '86, it wasn't like this,
but there weren't that many of us out there either. Far too many
people point to the 'good old days' just a couple years ago and seem
to have very selective memories.

On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:25:44 -0500, Silvan
wrote:

Now it's just not worth the headache of making sure this will work with
that. I got my last computer at a local place. It cost the same whether I
had them build it or not, so I let them do it.

Last time I did a complete upgrade, I went around and got some price
quotes for the system if they installed it. The prices I got ended up
being 2-3x as much as it cost me to just do it myself and that's not
even counting the money I saved using perfectly good components that I
already had. In the end, the labor costs far exceeded the hardware
costs and I'm about the cheapest labor I know.

And to think, Digital Research was first approached by IBM for a new
operating system and because they thought IBM would be like the Borg,
they ended up turning it down - enter then Microsoft and the rest is
history....

But I do not miss having to use a boot disk for getting my old Northstar
up and running...

Philski

Charlie Self wrote:

Silvan asks:

A friend had a Kaypro. One of those "almost" compatibles, right?

No. cp/m was not intended as a compatible. It was there first, meant to become
the big dog on the block, and using it almost cost KayPro its shirt, which it
later lost anyway, IIRC.

That portable cp/m machine was a delight. And weigh 22 pounds. Keyboard snap
latched to the 7" screen/case/cpu. Green screen. IIRC, you also had a choice of
amber, but at extra cost. I went for green. The package, with a Juki ball head
printer, cost me almost $2400 (Colonial Computers, Salem).

Charlie Self

"Analyzing humor is like dissecting a frog. Few people are interested and the
frog dies of it." E. B. White

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
Silvan notes:

(HPC-250-101) that is just taking up space. Pay the shipping and it's
yours.

I have no idea what that particular power supply is, but if it fits an
AT-style case I'll be glad to take you up on that!

After the holidays though, probably. The power supply is low priority,
and
money is distressingly tight right now. Had some unexpected and
unwelcome
expenses, and SWMBO's work box is right out the window. So too probably
my
scroll saw.

No rush. See if Enright has a site and see if that model will fit your
machine.
It should, I think.

Might be a little tricky if you search for Enright, since it is actually
Enlight. ;-)

Here're a coupla links that show the PSU:
http://www.highpowersupply.com/produ...hpc250101r.htm
http://www.thirty-day.com/hpc250101.htm

Enlights are decent power supplies. So are Fortron and Sparkle. If you
have the cash, it's hard to beat Antec and Enermax, and the Thermaltake
units are nice, also.

"Philski" wrote in message
...
And to think, Digital Research was first approached by IBM for a new
operating system and because they thought IBM would be like the Borg,
they ended up turning it down - enter then Microsoft and the rest is
history....

The story I heard was that the Digital Research CEO was on a plane heading
for vacation, and couldn't be bothered with IBM (DR thought they were the
only software game in town). That's when IBM got in touch with Bill Gates.
Gates promised an operating system (OS) on a very short timeline and IBM
jumped on it. However, Gates wanted to maintain the rights to the OS. IBM
said "sure", not realizing the power that that one little decision would
provide in creating the MicroSoft monopoly.

Anywayz, Gates quickly cobbled together the OS and dubbed it QDOS (Quick and
Dirty Operating System). Later, the Q was dropped and the acronym became
DOS (I used to think it meant "Disk Operating System"!).

DOS evolved into the Windows GUI. So, the basis of Windows was a quick and
dirty operating system. And folks wonder why Windows has so many
problems.... ;-)

mrdancer responds:

Here're a coupla links that show the PSU:
http://www.highpowersupply.com/produ...hpc250101r.htm
http://www.thirty-day.com/hpc250101.htm

Enlights are decent power supplies. So are Fortron and Sparkle. If you
have the cash, it's hard to beat Antec and Enermax, and the Thermaltake
units are nice, also.

Thanks for the correction. Silvan is kind of short of money, so...anything that
works. This is out of a case that got messed up somehow, without affecting
anything else (no MB at the time). I was going to give it to a local outfit,
but he probably needs it more.

Charlie Self

"If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would
promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken

In article e.rogers.com,
Michael Daly wrote:
On 25-Nov-2003, (Robert Bonomi) wrote:

The full feed is probably only about 600 *GIGABYTES* of traffic _per_day_.

I distinctly remember when a local sysop was complaining that if Usenet
continued to grow, he'd have to upgrade to a 20MB drive to contain it.
That was an $800 upgrade for a clone!

I go back to the days when you could get a 'full feed' over a 19.2kbit/sec
dial-up modem -- in about 3 hrs. When it was possible to 'eyeball' _every_
article. And there were people who _did_ exactly that.