On 07/05/2021 11:28, JohnP wrote:


I was quite concerned about this move toward legislation to make things
repairable. Higher costs and bulkier items will be to result - as well as
incompetent people causing accidents. A spot weld is probably better than a
screw and is more compact.


I would certainly like to be able to download a manual for my washing
machine that would tell me how it works. If it stops mid cycle I would
like to know what it is waiting for. The last I bought can be controlled
via a mobile phone using NFC. I have never seen the point of this, but
if I could connect the machine to my wifi and then get full diagnostic
information I would find that useful.


--
Michael Chare

Michael Chare wrote in
:

On 07/05/2021 11:28, JohnP wrote:


I was quite concerned about this move toward legislation to make
things repairable. Higher costs and bulkier items will be to result -
as well as incompetent people causing accidents. A spot weld is
probably better than a screw and is more compact.


I would certainly like to be able to download a manual for my washing
machine that would tell me how it works. If it stops mid cycle I
would like to know what it is waiting for. The last I bought can be
controlled via a mobile phone using NFC. I have never seen the point
of this, but if I could connect the machine to my wifi and then get
full diagnostic information I would find that useful.



Just understanding the logic is a big help. Plumbers and Boilers comes to
mind. Many only seem to be able to relate to an old type of system. Even a
motorised valve seems to flumox them.

On 08/05/2021 04:04, Rod Speed wrote:
"Tim+" wrote in message
...
Nick Odell wrote:

The best tip I know of to preserve long life in a cordless kettle is
always to make sure it is switched off before removing it from the
base. It's pretty common to find that the switch contacts are plated
to resist pitting from arcing but the base contacts are not - with the
inevitable consequences.
(Mode/)


Yeah but, Ive never had one fail due to arcing.

I never have any arcing. The on off button on
the base of the kettle eliminates any arcing.

Do you mean the one you push down to switch it on, or the one inside the
base that isolated the contacts when there is no kettle on the base?

There's also arcing of the contacts between the two parts.

It's not clear which contacts break first.

--
Max Demian

On Saturday, 8 May 2021 at 11:22:53 UTC+1, Max Demian wrote:
On 08/05/2021 04:04, Rod Speed wrote:
"Tim+" wrote in message
et...
Nick Odell wrote:

The best tip I know of to preserve long life in a cordless kettle is
always to make sure it is switched off before removing it from the
base. It's pretty common to find that the switch contacts are plated
to resist pitting from arcing but the base contacts are not - with the
inevitable consequences.
(Mode/)


Yeah but, Ive never had one fail due to arcing.

I never have any arcing. The on off button on
the base of the kettle eliminates any arcing.
Do you mean the one you push down to switch it on, or the one inside the
base that isolated the contacts when there is no kettle on the base?

There's also arcing of the contacts between the two parts.

It's not clear which contacts break first.

--
Max Demian



Within an hour of reading this thread my Daewoo glass electric kettle failed!
The fault was in the neutral connection in the base which I fixed by opening the
base up and bending the spring. Opening the base was tricky because the
screws had special slots with three radial grooves spaced 120 deg apart.
They really didn't want anyone to fix it.

John

On 08/05/2021 12:55, John Walliker wrote:

Within an hour of reading this thread my Daewoo glass electric kettle failed!
The fault was in the neutral connection in the base which I fixed by opening the
base up and bending the spring. Opening the base was tricky because the
screws had special slots with three radial grooves spaced 120 deg apart.
They really didn't want anyone to fix it.

The first thing the "right to repair" enthusiasts should do is ban
entirely any screw that doesn't have a slot, a crosshead, hex or an
allen screw. All others have no mechanical justification.

--
Max Demian

In article , Chris Hogg
wrote:
On Sat, 8 May 2021 17:22:44 +0100, Max Demian
wrote:

On 08/05/2021 12:55, John Walliker wrote:

Within an hour of reading this thread my Daewoo glass electric kettle
failed! The fault was in the neutral connection in the base which I
fixed by opening the base up and bending the spring. Opening the base
was tricky because the screws had special slots with three radial
grooves spaced 120 deg apart. They really didn't want anyone to fix it.

The first thing the "right to repair" enthusiasts should do is ban
entirely any screw that doesn't have a slot, a crosshead, hex or an
allen screw. All others have no mechanical justification.

I don't disagree, but shouldn't every serious DIY-er have a set of
so-called security bits in his toolbox to deal with all those weird screw
heads?

Indeed so. I have at least 2 different sets

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

"Michael Chare" wrote in message
...
On 07/05/2021 11:28, JohnP wrote:


I was quite concerned about this move toward legislation to make things
repairable. Higher costs and bulkier items will be to result - as well as
incompetent people causing accidents. A spot weld is probably better than
a
screw and is more compact.

I would certainly like to be able to download a manual for my washing
machine that would tell me how it works. If it stops mid cycle I would
like to know what it is waiting for.

The last I bought can be controlled via a mobile phone using NFC.

Which one was that ?

I have never seen the point of this,

I can, particularly if the washing machine is too far
away to be easy to check on what it is doing or even
to just get a convenient notification of when its done.

but if I could connect the machine to my wifi and then get full diagnostic
information I would find that useful.

And if you do more than one type of wash, it would
be handy to be able to have just a couple of icons
for the types of wash you actually use and just
select one or the other for a particular wash etc.

On 08/05/2021 18:00, charles wrote:
In article , Chris Hogg
wrote:
On Sat, 8 May 2021 17:22:44 +0100, Max Demian
wrote:

On 08/05/2021 12:55, John Walliker wrote:

Within an hour of reading this thread my Daewoo glass electric kettle
failed! The fault was in the neutral connection in the base which I
fixed by opening the base up and bending the spring. Opening the base
was tricky because the screws had special slots with three radial
grooves spaced 120 deg apart. They really didn't want anyone to fix it.

The first thing the "right to repair" enthusiasts should do is ban
entirely any screw that doesn't have a slot, a crosshead, hex or an
allen screw. All others have no mechanical justification.

I don't disagree, but shouldn't every serious DIY-er have a set of
so-called security bits in his toolbox to deal with all those weird screw
heads?

Indeed so. I have at least 2 different sets

I have two sets too, but both are bits to go into a holder and too many
designs place the screws at the bottom of deep holes that the holder
won't fit into. A full set of proper screwdrivers with all the possible
ends would be extremely pricey, so I am on the lookout for a set of long
bits, giving the depth required.

Jeff Layman laid this down on his screen :
Sure, if you've got all day because the filter slows things down. But then
again, maybe it would push all the fur off the filter with the reverse flow.

Our latest has its filter hinged to the lid, so it would hinge out of
the way when filled via the spout - unfortunately the outlet on our tap
is too big to properly fit the spout.

Lid is hinged, with a latch - you have slide the latch, to release the
lid to open.

On 08/05/2021 11:16, JohnP wrote:
Michael Chare wrote in
:

On 07/05/2021 11:28, JohnP wrote:


I was quite concerned about this move toward legislation to make
things repairable. Higher costs and bulkier items will be to result -
as well as incompetent people causing accidents. A spot weld is
probably better than a screw and is more compact.


I would certainly like to be able to download a manual for my washing
machine that would tell me how it works. If it stops mid cycle I
would like to know what it is waiting for. The last I bought can be
controlled via a mobile phone using NFC. I have never seen the point
of this, but if I could connect the machine to my wifi and then get
full diagnostic information I would find that useful.



Just understanding the logic is a big help. Plumbers and Boilers comes to
mind. Many only seem to be able to relate to an old type of system. Even a
motorised valve seems to flumox them.

It's a good job I can look after my own heating system - I can't see the
average plumber understanding the motorised valve and timer/stat per
room, with mains operated valves, battery powered stats and 12V
switching via relays, with my own, home made PCBs.

"Max Demian" wrote in message
...
On 08/05/2021 04:04, Rod Speed wrote:
"Tim+" wrote in message
...
Nick Odell wrote:

The best tip I know of to preserve long life in a cordless kettle is
always to make sure it is switched off before removing it from the
base. It's pretty common to find that the switch contacts are plated
to resist pitting from arcing but the base contacts are not - with the
inevitable consequences.
(Mode/)


Yeah but, Ive never had one fail due to arcing.

I never have any arcing. The on off button on
the base of the kettle eliminates any arcing.

Do you mean the one you push down to switch it on,

Yes, and that pops up auto when the kettle boils.

or the one inside the base that isolated the contacts when there is no
kettle on the base?

No.

There's also arcing of the contacts between the two parts.

No arcing with mine, it makes good contact with no
power going thru them. Power only goes thru them
when you press the button down to start heating.

It's not clear which contacts break first.

None of mine have ever broken but I dont use a kettle
much at all, mainly just when brewing the beer and thats
just to get the last of the concentrate out of the can.

R D S expressed precisely :
Yes, I have a collection of kettles at work that we've mothballed for one
reason or another.
Keep meaning to chuck em but you know how it is....

When we replace such small items, we keep the old version as a spare,
unless it is completely dead. We have spare iron, toaster, kettle,
coffee maker etc.. When a present item is due replacement, it will go
in the spares cupboard, and the older version will be disposed of.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote on 07/05/2021 :
And reading that meja, you'd think early TVs rarely broke down - and if
they did were cheap and simple to fix.

They were often rented, because they were so expensive and because
there would then be a cost free ready repair option, when as they often
did, they broke down or needed adjustment.

On Sat, 08 May 2021 04:55:47 -0700, John Walliker wrote:

On Saturday, 8 May 2021 at 11:22:53 UTC+1, Max Demian wrote:
On 08/05/2021 04:04, Rod Speed wrote:
"Tim+" wrote in message
et...
Nick Odell wrote:

The best tip I know of to preserve long life in a cordless kettle
is always to make sure it is switched off before removing it from
the base. It's pretty common to find that the switch contacts are
plated to resist pitting from arcing but the base contacts are not
- with the inevitable consequences.
(Mode/)


Yeah but, Ive never had one fail due to arcing.

I never have any arcing. The on off button on the base of the kettle
eliminates any arcing.
Do you mean the one you push down to switch it on, or the one inside
the base that isolated the contacts when there is no kettle on the
base?

There's also arcing of the contacts between the two parts.

It's not clear which contacts break first.

The kettle switch contacts... every time. The interlock pin in the
kettle plug is designed to unlatch the switch before lifting the kettle
off its base breaks the centre pin contact.


--
Max Demian



Within an hour of reading this thread my Daewoo glass electric kettle
failed! The fault was in the neutral connection in the base which I
fixed by opening the base up and bending the spring. Opening the base
was tricky because the screws had special slots with three radial
grooves spaced 120 deg apart.
They really didn't want anyone to fix it.


You got that right! :- However, the base socket isn't the problem. It
rarely ever is - we're now on our fourth such 3KW 1.7l kettle as of
yesterday's Argos purchase to replace its almost identical Argos sourced
predecessor, also a Cookware model as was the one before that - the first
of these four kettles had been a virtually identical Tesco special.

Built in obsolescence is a seemingly guaranteed feature of all these
Chinese manufactured 1.7l plastic 3KW jug kettles ime. Quite obviously,
the nominated point of failure is _never_ _ever_ the heating element
itself simply to avoid the risk of a potentially more dramatic failure
mode (and possible bad press publicity) whilst there are many more points
of virtually guaranteed 'silent failure modes' to choose from, favourite
of which are those that offer the cheapest remedial costs in the event of
miscalculation over the planned 18 to 24 month service lifetime optimised
to avoid honouring a 12 month warranty whilst not cutting too much into
the sales of replacement kettles.

Usually what fails is the rather 'poor' (by design), typically wishbone
shaped, interior plastic lever which the external 'switch paddle' is push
fitted onto. The first kettle (that Tesco special I think) had one such
linkage that was obviously under-engineered to allow it to break,
predictably enough, right where you'd expect it to, at a stress
concentration point where it made a right angled deviation to clear an
internal obstruction (there were another one or two such right angled
deviations afaicr).

I managed to effect a reasonably strong repair by drilling 0.5mm holes
into the broken ends and pinning them with SS spring wire splints and
epoxy glue. It had seemed such an obscenity to junk a complete kettle for
the sake of a ha'penny's worth of plastic that I felt it worth making an
effort to mock the Chinese manufacturers' attempt at screwing the end
user no matter the cost to the environment.

The second kettle, the first of the Cookware series, simply developed a
slow leak and, since it was black and SWMBI was hankering after a white
kettle, I simply purchased a replacement rather than try to effect any
form of repair.

This last unit developed a very strange fault just a few days ago,
starting by it taking to binding onto its base when trying to lift it up.
At first, it seemed like a sticky liquid had contaminated the base and
socket but giving it and the kettle a thorough clean made no difference.

A day or two later, it had suddenly, and without any warning whatsoever,
decided to not latch the power unless you held the switch paddle down for
20 seconds or so before letting it flick off to reset it again back to
on, after which it would boil as normal (and even shut itself down after
boiling for the 10 to 20 seconds it takes for the anti-boil dry mechanism
shut off to kick in - not something I'd normally allow).

It was only after completely emptying it out to take a closer look at
the switch assembly and retensioning the bi-metal disk with horseshoe
shaped cut-out that pushes the external lever into the off position and
reassembling it that I noticed that the centre pin contact was slightly
off centre. I used a pair of long nose pliers to straighten it out which
immediately stopped it binding to the baseplate.

I returned it to the kitchen to successfully demonstrate to SWMBI my
repair work. However, the next day saw the fault symptoms make a full and
complete comeback. This time, I examined the centre pin contact and, you
guessed it, it was once more out of alignment. I straightened it out once
more, not only curing the binding issue but, mysteriously, the latching
failure issue... at least for the next two or three brew ups at which
point I could no longer Ignore the pressure from SWMBI to buy yet another
replacement kettle after only seeing two years of service from this one
which in every other respect had proved perfectly fitted to its task.

This time I decided, in view of the two years we had gotten out of a 15
quid kettle with only a 12 month manufacturer's warranty, to spend the
extra £2.59 on an extended 3 year warranty for its 15 quid replacement.
Fifteen quid for 24 months is effectively a monthly 'rental' of 62.5p
whilst the £17.68 spent in total this time round would equate to just
49.1p per month over the next 36 months.

One final note; what was mysterious about this failure was, in spite of
similar stress concentration points in the clear plastic whishbone styled
switch operating lever, there had not been any structural failure as
witnessed in the Tesco Kettle. It seems that rather than mould it into an
'organic' stress concentration free design, they'd simply over-engineered
it to get round the 'lego bricks' inspired design brief originated in the
earlier design of that Tesco special.

The bit of this plug and switch mechanism assembly I need to examine
remains hidden from view and whilst the heater element contacts with said
assembly are via narrow lucar type push on spade connectors, those push
on contacts are welded onto the heater element pins at an angle that
makes disconnection just a little problematical - undoing the three
screws holding this assembly to the base of the kettle isn't the problem
this time.

However, now that we have replaced it with a new one, I can afford to
have a go, even if it's merely to satisfy prurient curiosity over what
cunning new trick of obsolescence the Chinese have gone for this time
round.

--
Johnny B Good

On Fri, 07 May 2021 13:26:31 +0100, tim... wrote:

"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
...
On 07/05/2021 08:13, tim... wrote:


"Michael Chare" wrote in message
...
The element in our Russell Hobs kettle failed after the equivalent of
3-4 years use. The heating element is under the water container and
does not appear to be removable, unlike older kettles where the
element was in the water and could be replaced.

Many new kettles are of a similar design to the one that has failed,
so I
thought I should buy a cheap one as it also probably can't be
repaired.
I
was able to get a cheap £12 one from Tesco. It has a slightly lower
power rating, 2.2Kw and a much higher minimum water level. I wonder
how well it will last

12 pounds!

you woz done

https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-G...ucts/305877709

Looks like it's got one of those hinged lids - the type which break off
366 days after purchase. I've given up buying kettles with hinged lids,
especially those which are spring-operated by a button on the handle. I
prefer those with "old-fashioned" completely removable lids. No hinge,
no button, no spring - mechanically robust, in other words.

wouldn't know

I fill it up through the pouring hole

empty it through the pouring hole

simples


Spot on!

Whilst the lid mechanism on these Cookware 1.7l 3KW jug kettles seem to
be engineered well enough and have never been a point of failure
(probably because we rarely pop the lids open on these models for
filling), this last variant we purchased yesterday doesn't sport quite as
wide a spout as its predecessors making it slightly more inclined to wet
the outside when filling it through the spout.

Thankfully, a few extra drips don't represent an electrical safety issue
with their docking stations, just a few extra drips on the kitchen
worktop is all. The slightly smaller spout is more a minor irritation
than any real nuisance.

Incidentally, like its predecessor, the lid on the new kettle only pops
open by 45 degrees on the button release press, requiring the lid to be
manually pushed into the full 85 degree up position which still leaves it
a little awkward to fill. The swing up lid only comes into its own for
replacing the seemingly unobtainable replacement filter, otherwise it's
essentially just an ornamental feature in practice.


--
Johnny B Good

On Fri, 07 May 2021 09:09:48 +0000, Roger Hayter wrote:

On 6 May 2021 at 23:28:04 BST, "Michael Chare"
wrote:

The element in our Russell Hobs kettle failed after the equivalent of
3-4 years use. The heating element is under the water container and
does not appear to be removable, unlike older kettles where the element
was in the water and could be replaced.

Many new kettles are of a similar design to the one that has failed, so
I thought I should buy a cheap one as it also probably can't be
repaired. I was able to get a cheap £12 one from Tesco. It has a
slightly lower power rating, 2.2Kw and a much higher minimum water
level. I wonder how well it will last

Have others had similar problems with this type of kettle?

Yes, whether cheap or expensive models the elements tend to fail after
one to three years. I suspect people boiling less than the minimum
quantity of water is the main cause, but I am generally too circumspect
to say so too often! A useful side effect is that the RCD gets tested
at least that often.

You're probably right about the real cause of premature element failure
being too low a filling but ime, the elements of the last half dozen of
these plastic jug kettles have proved to be the most reliable part,
especially in the last three circular base 3KW types (I've just bought a
fourth circular base 3KW kettle to replace the last one).

The Chinese manufacturer seems to have taken some care in making sure
the element will outlast the other critical parts nominated to fail in
much less potentially dramatic ways than a heating element, in order to
perform the obsoleting role to maintain demand just beyond their basic
one year warranty without lasting so long as to over-extend service life
to the detriment of such lucrative demand.

--
Johnny B Good

On Sun, 9 May 2021 03:40:17 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread


--
JimK addressing senile Rodent Speed:
"I really feel the quality of your trolling has dropped in the last few
months..."
MID:

On Sun, 9 May 2021 03:32:55 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
"Who or What is Rod Speed?

Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

"Harry Bloomfield"; "Esq." wrote in message
...
R D S expressed precisely :
Yes, I have a collection of kettles at work that we've mothballed for one
reason or another.
Keep meaning to chuck em but you know how it is....

When we replace such small items, we keep the old version as a spare,
unless it is completely dead. We have spare iron, toaster, kettle, coffee
maker etc.. When a present item is due replacement, it will go in the
spares cupboard, and the older version will be disposed of.

I basically have new spares for what I use much so its effortless
when anything dies. And I generally don't dispose of anything,
the one that has died can be a source of parts when another dies.

Johnny B Good wrote:


Built in obsolescence is a seemingly guaranteed feature of all these
Chinese manufactured 1.7l plastic 3KW jug kettles ime. Quite obviously,
the nominated point of failure is _never_ _ever_ the heating element


Just had to replace my mums Morrisons cheapo kettle. Element went open
circuit.

Tim


--
Please don't feed the trolls

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote on 07/05/2021 :
And reading that meja, you'd think early TVs rarely broke down - and if
they did were cheap and simple to fix.

They were often rented, because they were so expensive and because
there would then be a cost free ready repair option, when as they often
did, they broke down or needed adjustment.

At one time. my job provided me with a rented set. It started giving noisy
pictures, so I complained. Someone came while I was at work, fiddled with
tuning know sand said "nothing wrong with it". I was debating what to do
next when I happened to deal with a call from the company's head office. At
the end of his call I ssked how I could make a complaint - to which he said
"tell me". Within an hour, I had the branch manager on the phone "You
should have said you were a BBC customer. I've got a new tuner soak
testing on the bench." and it was fited the next day. Every subsequent call
out had the branch senior technician. I suspect they thought that if I
complained seriously, they might loose the BBC Contract.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On Sat, 08 May 2021 17:59:23 +0000, Johnny B Good wrote:

Within an hour of reading this thread my Daewoo glass electric kettle
failed! The fault was in the neutral connection in the base which I
fixed by opening the base up and bending the spring. Opening the base
was tricky because the screws had special slots with three radial
grooves spaced 120 deg apart.
They really didn't want anyone to fix it.

I have the usual set of security bits. However, I found that they weren't
long enough to reach into the deep recess for screws on one kettle. I
bodged it by half filling the recess in the screwdriver with suitably
sized nuts.

I now have a nice Wera screwdriver set with long bits. I was given a
Machine Mart voucher for Father's Day, and spent it on that.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Sat, 08 May 2021 18:35:33 +0100, Steve Walker wrote:

I have two sets too, but both are bits to go into a holder and too many
designs place the screws at the bottom of deep holes that the holder
won't fit into. A full set of proper screwdrivers with all the possible
ends would be extremely pricey, so I am on the lookout for a set of long
bits, giving the depth required.

Not exactly cheap, but I have this...

https://products.wera.de/en/
kraftform_kompakt_kraftform_kompakt_60_62_kk_62.ht ml



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Sun, 9 May 2021 05:07:18 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
"Who or What is Rod Speed?

Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On 08/05/2021 22:29, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 08 May 2021 18:35:33 +0100, Steve Walker wrote:

I have two sets too, but both are bits to go into a holder and too many
designs place the screws at the bottom of deep holes that the holder
won't fit into. A full set of proper screwdrivers with all the possible
ends would be extremely pricey, so I am on the lookout for a set of long
bits, giving the depth required.

Not exactly cheap, but I have this...

https://products.wera.de/en/
kraftform_kompakt_kraftform_kompakt_60_62_kk_62.ht ml

That's the sort of thing. Thanks.

On 08/05/2021 19:22, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Fri, 07 May 2021 13:26:31 +0100, tim... wrote:

"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
...
On 07/05/2021 08:13, tim... wrote:


"Michael Chare" wrote in message
...
The element in our Russell Hobs kettle failed after the equivalent of
3-4 years use. The heating element is under the water container and
does not appear to be removable, unlike older kettles where the
element was in the water and could be replaced.

Many new kettles are of a similar design to the one that has failed,
so I
thought I should buy a cheap one as it also probably can't be
repaired.
I
was able to get a cheap £12 one from Tesco. It has a slightly lower
power rating, 2.2Kw and a much higher minimum water level. I wonder
how well it will last

12 pounds!

you woz done

https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-G...ucts/305877709

Looks like it's got one of those hinged lids - the type which break off
366 days after purchase. I've given up buying kettles with hinged lids,
especially those which are spring-operated by a button on the handle. I
prefer those with "old-fashioned" completely removable lids. No hinge,
no button, no spring - mechanically robust, in other words.

wouldn't know

I fill it up through the pouring hole

empty it through the pouring hole

simples


Spot on!

Whilst the lid mechanism on these Cookware 1.7l 3KW jug kettles seem to
be engineered well enough and have never been a point of failure
(probably because we rarely pop the lids open on these models for
filling), this last variant we purchased yesterday doesn't sport quite as
wide a spout as its predecessors making it slightly more inclined to wet
the outside when filling it through the spout.

Thankfully, a few extra drips don't represent an electrical safety issue
with their docking stations, just a few extra drips on the kitchen
worktop is all. The slightly smaller spout is more a minor irritation
than any real nuisance.

Incidentally, like its predecessor, the lid on the new kettle only pops
open by 45 degrees on the button release press, requiring the lid to be
manually pushed into the full 85 degree up position which still leaves it
a little awkward to fill. The swing up lid only comes into its own for
replacing the seemingly unobtainable replacement filter, otherwise it's
essentially just an ornamental feature in practice.


My lid doesn't pop up. I just lift it up. Really, why make an expensive
fragile mechanism just to lift a lid you can lift with your other hand?
Marketing and 'creeping featurism'.



--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

On 08/05/2021 20:23, Tim+ wrote:
Johnny B Good wrote:


Built in obsolescence is a seemingly guaranteed feature of all these
Chinese manufactured 1.7l plastic 3KW jug kettles ime. Quite obviously,
the nominated point of failure is _never_ _ever_ the heating element


Just had to replace my mums Morrisons cheapo kettle. Element went open
circuit.

Tim


that's generally the thermal trip that never closes again...

--
€œBut what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an
hypothesis!€�

Mary Wollstonecraft

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
JohnP wrote

Probably all made in the same factory in China.

China doesn’t work like that.

China doesn't work like what? (please don't snip too much!)

That everything from China isn't made in the same factory? Clearly,
obviously not

That a factory in China that makes quality branded goods, doesn't also make
knock-offs of the same item?

Nope, I assure that this is exactly what does happen

tim

In article ,
Max Demian wrote:
On 08/05/2021 12:55, John Walliker wrote:

Within an hour of reading this thread my Daewoo glass electric kettle
failed! The fault was in the neutral connection in the base which I
fixed by opening the base up and bending the spring. Opening the base
was tricky because the screws had special slots with three radial
grooves spaced 120 deg apart. They really didn't want anyone to fix it.

The first thing the "right to repair" enthusiasts should do is ban
entirely any screw that doesn't have a slot, a crosshead, hex or an
allen screw. All others have no mechanical justification.

Yup. It's not fair your 5 year old can't get inside them with his Meccano
screwdriver.

--
* I like you. You remind me of when I was young and stupid

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote on 07/05/2021 :
And reading that meja, you'd think early TVs rarely broke down - and if
they did were cheap and simple to fix.

They were often rented, because they were so expensive and because
there would then be a cost free ready repair option, when as they often
did, they broke down or needed adjustment.

And the rental company supplying a social service, then? ;-)

No different from having a service contract on your heating system. Long
term, the supplier always wins. And by a large margin.

--
*Lottery: A tax on people who are bad at math.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

tim... wrote:

https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-G...ucts/305877709

Why name it "immersed kettle" if that means they then have to put a
warning label on it saying "do not immerse in water"?

Just understanding the logic is a big help. Plumbers and Boilers
comes to mind. Many only seem to be able to relate to an old type of
system. Even a motorised valve seems to flumox them.

It's a good job I can look after my own heating system - I can't see
the average plumber understanding the motorised valve and timer/stat
per room, with mains operated valves, battery powered stats and 12V
switching via relays, with my own, home made PCBs.


But he learned how to wipe a lead joint to become Time Served. A different
skill is needed for heating sytems in my view. If it leaks ger a plumber -
other stuff, get a ???????

In article ,
JohnP wrote:




Just understanding the logic is a big help. Plumbers and Boilers
comes to mind. Many only seem to be able to relate to an old type of
system. Even a motorised valve seems to flumox them.

It's a good job I can look after my own heating system - I can't see
the average plumber understanding the motorised valve and timer/stat
per room, with mains operated valves, battery powered stats and 12V
switching via relays, with my own, home made PCBs.


But he learned how to wipe a lead joint to become Time Served. A different
skill is needed for heating sytems in my view. If it leaks ger a plumber -
other stuff, get a ???????

Probably history. In the 50s (and earlier), plumbers were often also
electricians. Steel conduit is pretty similar to working with plumbing
iron barrel. In those days, the electrical side didn't take so much
learning.

--
*A clear conscience is the sign of a fuzzy memory.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

No but a friend told me that mine which seems to have the element as a kind
of plate at the bottom is not only getting scaled up again, but bits
actually look rusty, which could not be a very good omen for the future.


Brian

--

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The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Michael Chare" wrote in message
...
The element in our Russell Hobs kettle failed after the equivalent of 3-4
years use. The heating element is under the water container and does not
appear to be removable, unlike older kettles where the element was in the
water and could be replaced.

Many new kettles are of a similar design to the one that has failed, so I
thought I should buy a cheap one as it also probably can't be repaired. I
was able to get a cheap £12 one from Tesco. It has a slightly lower power
rating, 2.2Kw and a much higher minimum water level. I wonder how well it
will last

Have others had similar problems with this type of kettle?

I have to say, I've not seen that effect at all, At least the base
connectors seem to be standard as I just swapped my spare Morphy Richards
with my main one of Tefal Design and they fit, albeit the smooth lines do
not match up from one to the other!

Brian

--

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Blind user, so no pictures please
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"Nick Odell" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 6 May 2021 23:28:04 +0100, Michael Chare
wrote:

The element in our Russell Hobs kettle failed after the equivalent of
3-4 years use. The heating element is under the water container and
does not appear to be removable, unlike older kettles where the element
was in the water and could be replaced.

Many new kettles are of a similar design to the one that has failed, so
I thought I should buy a cheap one as it also probably can't be
repaired. I was able to get a cheap £12 one from Tesco. It has a
slightly lower power rating, 2.2Kw and a much higher minimum water
level. I wonder how well it will last

Have others had similar problems with this type of kettle?

Do you mean the cordless "kettle-shaped" model with a very heavy base
with the elements built in? I have one of those and the kettle itself
hasn't caused any problems but the plastic base with the mains
connector has gradually sunken under the weight and heat so that,
several years later the contacts no longer make -erme- contact. I like
the kettle - and it wasn't cheap! - so I have a little project on to
mould the base back into shape and reinforce it with more plastic
inside. A lot of fuss over an old kettle? That's what retirement is
for isn't it? Now.. ... where did I put my set of spool clamps?


Nick

Its back to the inspection and QA again then. I mean if you don't sort out
the dodgy bits before you make it available and use the public as testers
you really should have a longer Warranty in my view.
Brian

--

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Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Michael Chare" wrote in message
...
On 07/05/2021 13:20, Max Demian wrote:
On 06/05/2021 23:28, Michael Chare wrote:

The element in our Russell Hobs kettle failed after the equivalent of
3-4 years use. The heating element is under the water container and does
not appear to be removable, unlike older kettles where the element was
in the water and could be replaced.

Many new kettles are of a similar design to the one that has failed, so
I thought I should buy a cheap one as it also probably can't be
repaired. I was able to get a cheap £12 one from Tesco. It has a
slightly lower power rating, 2.2Kw and a much higher minimum water
level. I wonder how well it will last

Have others had similar problems with this type of kettle?

Russell Hobbs should be ashamed of themselves. (Perhaps the name has been
sold to the Chinese.) I bought one of the original Forgettles in 1978 and
the element never needed replacing and the cutout never failed. I only
got rid of it in 2013 as it leaked slightly from the bottom.


I bought an earlier Russell Hobs kettle for use at another location. It
failed after about a year so out or warranty. I had to pay them a further
£18 for a replacement which to be fair has lasted quite a number of years.
Certainly the kettle that failed was made in China.

--
Michael Chare

On 09/05/2021 11:24, tim... wrote:


"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
JohnP wrote

Probably all made in the same factory in China.

China doesn’t work like that.

China doesn't work like what?* (please don't snip too much!)

That everything from China isn't made in the same factory?* Clearly,
obviously not

That a factory in China that makes quality branded goods, doesn't also
make knock-offs of the same item?

Nope, I assure that this is exactly what does happen

It is still often the same stuff produced on the same production line
though. It might be ripping off the branded item, but it is likely to be
exactly the same - just not counted in the total.

For rip-offs produced on the legitimate production line, it would not be
worth changing the components of a device, when they've got the design,
set-up, supply sourcing and advertising for free!

For other items it is different. Here in the UK, I have been in a number
of industrial bakeries and for example, some production lines produce
Warburton's Crumpets, Sainsbury's own label and Basics ranges on the
same production line, simply changing the ingredients placed in the
mixer, possibly temperatures/times and packaging.

On 09/05/2021 13:54, JohnP wrote:



Just understanding the logic is a big help. Plumbers and Boilers
comes to mind. Many only seem to be able to relate to an old type of
system. Even a motorised valve seems to flumox them.

It's a good job I can look after my own heating system - I can't see
the average plumber understanding the motorised valve and timer/stat
per room, with mains operated valves, battery powered stats and 12V
switching via relays, with my own, home made PCBs.


But he learned how to wipe a lead joint to become Time Served.

I've wiped one or two lead joints (although the only lead we have left
now is the supply to the house), but I am definitely not a plumber - I
don't even know where my moleskin has gone.

tim... wrote
Rod Speed wrote
JohnP wrote

Probably all made in the same factory in China.

China doesn’t work like that.

China doesn't work like what?

Just one factory producing all electric kettles.

(please don't snip too much!)

I didn’t snip anything, just cleaned up the longer attribution lines.

That everything from China isn't made in the same factory?

Every electric kettle either.

Clearly, obviously not

That a factory in China that makes quality branded goods, doesn't also
make knock-offs of the same item?

I didn’t comment on that.

Nope, I assure that this is exactly what does happen

Bull**** with plenty of the factorys.

On Mon, 10 May 2021 05:37:28 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH troll**** unread

--
Hawk addressing the obnoxious senile Australian pest:
"I'm willing to bet you scream your own name when jacking off."
MID: