On 01/02/16 22:09, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 01/02/16 17:49, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 01/02/16 17:33, dennis@home wrote:
On 01/02/2016 16:06, charles wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher


Nowadays, I take a photo of the car (with reg plate).

yebbut I keep my camera in the car..

use your phone!


If you have a recent smart phone you can use the GPS to mark the
location too.

If you don't have a smart phone, a tablet, or a surface and you own a
car, and you can read a map, its amazing what you don't need.

Well quite. I just got a new phone for £25. It has a 2Mpx camera, but
only because I couldn't get one without.


I did. It cost me £19.95 Nokia 105. You can get them for even less.

I wanted a clam-shell one. No chance of dialling then when it's in the
pocket.

Well I have to bow to modernity. I did manage to create at the top of
the menu a 'lock keyboard' thingy.


--
No Apple devices were knowingly used in the preparation of this post.

On Tue, 2 Feb 2016 09:11:06 +1100, "Blanco" wrote:

snip

If you have a recent smart phone you can use the GPS to mark the location
too.

Not accurate down to the car.

I've not tried that with a smartphone but often used it to find the
car (or tent / motorbike) using my portable Garmin GPS.

snip

Very handy to get to roughly where the car is and start looking at
individual cars tho.

Again, this could be dedicated GPS specific (but I don't know why it
should be these days) but I'm sure the resolution was about 6' (only a
bit wider than a car)?

We would pull up at a parking space, hit the 'Man overboard' button,
give the waypoint a suitable label then turn the GPS off and stick it
in my pocket. We walk into town / whatever and if we get disorientated
on return, turn the GPS back on and follow the arrow back to the car
(with the routing set to 'Pedestrian').

We also used the GPS several times (pre us having SmartPhones with
Internet etc) to find 'Attractions nearby' when on motorcycle /
camping holidays.

FWIW, I had a flyer from OS recently saying they would allow me to
trade in my old paper maps (of which I have a good few, unused now for
a good few years) for a voucher towards summat else (from them, like a
new map g). That could be a way of disposing of them as I couldn't
throw something like an OS Landranger map in the bin (they are little
works of art). ;-)

https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/shop/

Cheers, T i m

T i m wrote
Blanco wrote

If you have a recent smart phone you can
use the GPS to mark the location too.

Not accurate down to the car.

I've not tried that with a smartphone but often used it to find the
car (or tent / motorbike) using my portable Garmin GPS.

Yeah, I do too when out walking for exercise in the bush.

But then you don't need it to anything like as accurate as
the car in a carpark, you can see the car from hundreds of
meters away and just need some indication of roughly
where it is when its not currently visible in thick scrub etc.

And I do that with the phone, not a dedicated
GPS which I don't bother to use anymore.

Very handy to get to roughly where the car
is and start looking at individual cars tho.

Again, this could be dedicated GPS specific (but I don't
know why it should be these days) but I'm sure the
resolution was about 6' (only a bit wider than a car)?

It's not going to be that accurate in the big multilevel parking stations.

Even in my house with a metal roof, the location can vary by 100'

We would pull up at a parking space, hit the 'Man overboard' button,
give the waypoint a suitable label then turn the GPS off and stick it
in my pocket. We walk into town / whatever and if we get disorientated
on return, turn the GPS back on and follow the arrow back to the car
(with the routing set to 'Pedestrian').

There's a reason the find my car systems use bluetooth as well as GPS.

We also used the GPS several times (pre us having
SmartPhones with Internet etc) to find 'Attractions
nearby' when on motorcycle / camping holidays.

Sure, but with those you don't need anything like 6' accuracy.

And when you do like with say train platforms, you're normally
underground etc so the GPS doesn't have anything like 6' accuracy.

FWIW, I had a flyer from OS recently saying they would allow me to
trade in my old paper maps (of which I have a good few, unused now for
a good few years) for a voucher towards summat else (from them, like a
new map g). That could be a way of disposing of them as I couldn't
throw something like an OS Landranger map in the bin (they are little
works of art). ;-)

https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/shop/

Never had any offers on any of mine, but then they were all
bought before the net had even been invented and bought
in person rather than by mail order so that's not very surprising.

Don't use them at all anymore.

On 01/02/2016 22:09, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 01/02/16 17:49, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 01/02/16 17:33, dennis@home wrote:
On 01/02/2016 16:06, charles wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher


Nowadays, I take a photo of the car (with reg plate).

yebbut I keep my camera in the car..

use your phone!


If you have a recent smart phone you can use the GPS to mark the
location too.

If you don't have a smart phone, a tablet, or a surface and you own a
car, and you can read a map, its amazing what you don't need.

Well quite. I just got a new phone for £25. It has a 2Mpx camera, but
only because I couldn't get one without.


I did. It cost me £19.95 Nokia 105. You can get them for even less.

I wanted a clam-shell one. No chance of dialling then when it's in the
pocket.

Wife had a similar requirement, but still managed to find one with no
camera. Samsung of some kind, 15 quid last May. It's interesting
comparing it to the Nokia 100 series - the Samsung software feels very
cheap and nasty in comparison. But it does work.

On Tue, 2 Feb 2016 09:11:06 +1100, Blanco wrote:

If you have a recent smart phone you can use the GPS to mark the
location too.

If you have GPS on so you don't have to wait 5 mins until it has
worked out where it is.

Not accurate down to the car. You need the photo too.

It ought to get you within beeper range though. Old car was about 20
yds, new car is nearer 50.

Very handy to get to roughly where the car is and start looking at
individual cars tho.

Looking at cars when it's a hire car that you can't remember anything
about other than if being "a car" doesn't help. B-)



--
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Tue, 2 Feb 2016 09:11:06 +1100, Blanco wrote:

If you have a recent smart phone you can use the GPS to mark the
location too.

If you have GPS on so you don't have to wait 5 mins until it has
worked out where it is.

None of the current smartphones take anything like
that long now. And you'd normally have it on anyway.

Not accurate down to the car. You need the photo too.

It ought to get you within beeper range though.

Not in underground carparks or those big multistory parking stations.

Old car was about 20 yds, new car is nearer 50.

Very handy to get to roughly where the car
is and start looking at individual cars tho.

Looking at cars when it's a hire car that you can't remember anything
about other than if being "a car" doesn't help. B-)

That's why you take a photo of it including the plate.

in 1456136 20160201 110515 The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/02/16 10:47, Huge wrote:
On 2016-02-01, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 31/01/2016 23:01, bm wrote:
What really annoys me is when I go to the shed for something, I know I have
one but it's nowhere to be found.
I then go and buy another one. Much later, it turns up when I'm looking for
something else.

... and when you finish using the new one and put it away you find the
original in the same place.

BTDT.

Although I never did find my plastic hammer. The roofers did.


When I demolished my house I found the big tube of PVA I had left in a
wall cavity that I covered in plasterboard...

Playing with your chemistry set again?

On 01/02/2016 19:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/02/16 17:47, charles wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/02/16 17:33, dennis@home wrote:
On 01/02/2016 16:06, charles wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher


Nowadays, I take a photo of the car (with reg plate).

yebbut I keep my camera in the car..

use your phone!


If you have a recent smart phone you can use the GPS to mark the
location too.

If you don't have a smart phone, a tablet, or a surface and you own a
car, and you can read a map, its amazing what you don't need.

a map won't necessarily help you find your car in a car park

Never said it did, it just extends the range of technology you don't need.

I had an argument with a technophile friend. Full of himself and his
gadgets 'a satnav will always tell you how to get there better than a map'

'Possibly, but it doesn't help me decide where I want to go, does it?'

What about if it has lots of interesting "points of interest" overlays
loaded?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Tim Streater Wrote in message:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 01/02/16 17:49, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 01/02/16 17:33, dennis@home wrote:
On 01/02/2016 16:06, charles wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher


Nowadays, I take a photo of the car (with reg plate).

yebbut I keep my camera in the car..

use your phone!


If you have a recent smart phone you can use the GPS to mark the
location too.

If you don't have a smart phone, a tablet, or a surface and you own a
car, and you can read a map, its amazing what you don't need.

Well quite. I just got a new phone for £25. It has a 2Mpx camera, but
only because I couldn't get one without.


I did. It cost me £19.95 Nokia 105. You can get them for even less.

I wanted a clam-shell one. No chance of dialling then when it's in the
pocket.


Is that humour?

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 02/02/16 08:53, Bob Martin wrote:
in 1456136 20160201 110515 The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/02/16 10:47, Huge wrote:
On 2016-02-01, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 31/01/2016 23:01, bm wrote:
What really annoys me is when I go to the shed for something, I know I have
one but it's nowhere to be found.
I then go and buy another one. Much later, it turns up when I'm looking for
something else.

... and when you finish using the new one and put it away you find the
original in the same place.

BTDT.

Although I never did find my plastic hammer. The roofers did.


When I demolished my house I found the big tube of PVA I had left in a
wall cavity that I covered in plasterboard...

Playing with your chemistry set again?

hahahah. Très drôle...

--
Bureaucracy defends the status quo long past the time the quo has lost
its status.

Laurence Peter

On 02/02/16 09:15, John Rumm wrote:
On 01/02/2016 19:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/02/16 17:47, charles wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/02/16 17:33, dennis@home wrote:
On 01/02/2016 16:06, charles wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher


Nowadays, I take a photo of the car (with reg plate).

yebbut I keep my camera in the car..

use your phone!


If you have a recent smart phone you can use the GPS to mark the
location too.

If you don't have a smart phone, a tablet, or a surface and you own a
car, and you can read a map, its amazing what you don't need.

a map won't necessarily help you find your car in a car park

Never said it did, it just extends the range of technology you don't
need.

I had an argument with a technophile friend. Full of himself and his
gadgets 'a satnav will always tell you how to get there better than a
map'

'Possibly, but it doesn't help me decide where I want to go, does it?'

What about if it has lots of interesting "points of interest" overlays
loaded?


It tells me where 'they' want me to go. Usually an expensive place..




--
Bureaucracy defends the status quo long past the time the quo has lost
its status.

Laurence Peter

On Tue, 02 Feb 2016 09:15:14 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 01/02/2016 19:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/02/16 17:47, charles wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/02/16 17:33, dennis@home wrote:
On 01/02/2016 16:06, charles wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher


Nowadays, I take a photo of the car (with reg plate).

yebbut I keep my camera in the car..

use your phone!


If you have a recent smart phone you can use the GPS to mark the
location too.

If you don't have a smart phone, a tablet, or a surface and you own a
car, and you can read a map, its amazing what you don't need.

a map won't necessarily help you find your car in a car park

Never said it did, it just extends the range of technology you don't need.

I had an argument with a technophile friend. Full of himself and his
gadgets 'a satnav will always tell you how to get there better than a map'

'Possibly, but it doesn't help me decide where I want to go, does it?'

What about if it has lots of interesting "points of interest" overlays
loaded?

Quite, so does exactly help someone (who isn't a Luddite g) see what
is on offer locally and the distances to each, even the free stuff.
;-)

When we first when motorcycle touring our daughter (my pillion) was
quite young but was able to read a map fairly well. We had an intercom
and she had the map in a plastic cover and rested it in a 'bum bag'
strapped round my waist. Everything was fine with her reading the map
.... unless it was dark, she was tired, it was raining or she needed to
turn the page.

She might also not spot road tolls or ferries. ;-)

Then, once we had traveled say 200 miles between campsites, we might
then 'waste' an hour finding the actual site because the scale of the
road atlas wasn't really suitable for the detailed stuff.

Then we bought a GPS and all these issues just disappeared. Door to
door (or tent to tent g) in any weather or levels of darkness,
'avoiding' toll roads, ferries and roadworks with no issues at all. We
therefore spent more time 'on holiday' and less time being frustrated
or risking missing the closing time of campsites.

Once we were there we could select 'Nearest fuel' (all brands and
including telephone numbers so you can check they are open), or
'Nearest Food' (all types) or what could be more important in an
emergency (anyone's emergency), 'Nearest hospital'.

'Of course' I managed before the GPS in just the same way I managed
before I got a remote controlled TV or washing machine but sometimes
you want more than 'just managing'.

We were dropping some stuff off on Freecycle yesterday and whilst I
knew roughly where the person was I didn't know exactly. Because the
Mrs was with me I started to get her to enter the address into Google
maps on my phone, rather than stopping to set the GPS up. She gets
very travel sick and seems to be someone who can't get along with
touch screens so after a few aborted attempts to type in the
destination, I got her to talk it in. Ting, up it comes and just in
time to avoid us overshooting. ;-)

I only use the phone as a GPS when I have to and it's no use mounted
on the handlebar of a motorbike in the rain or when being operated by
fingers wrapped in leather gloves. It is very reassuring to know I
have a GPS on me at all times though (and I have made use of it many
times and in ways I wouldn't have first predicted).

Now, if you don't actually crawl out from under your stone very often
or aren't someone who likes doing stuff in the moment, 'planning' a
route 3 weeks in advance could be considered the fun bit of any trip
(till the first road closure of course). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 02/02/2016 10:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/02/16 09:15, John Rumm wrote:

I had an argument with a technophile friend. Full of himself and his
gadgets 'a satnav will always tell you how to get there better than a
map'

'Possibly, but it doesn't help me decide where I want to go, does it?'

What about if it has lots of interesting "points of interest" overlays
loaded?


It tells me where 'they' want me to go. Usually an expensive place..

Where "they" may be you, or any other group you have an interest in. In
the case of the Tomtom OVL files, they are a well document standard and
loads of third parties produce them, not just the satnav maker.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 02/02/2016 08:24, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 2 Feb 2016 09:11:06 +1100, Blanco wrote:

If you have a recent smart phone you can use the GPS to mark the
location too.

If you have GPS on so you don't have to wait 5 mins until it has
worked out where it is.

If you have quickfix enabled they take a few seconds even from cold.


Not accurate down to the car. You need the photo too.

It ought to get you within beeper range though. Old car was about 20
yds, new car is nearer 50.

GPS tends to be accurate to about 5m or less these days.
They usually have at least 12 channel receivers so they can get good
accuracy if they can see enough sky.


Very handy to get to roughly where the car is and start looking at
individual cars tho.

Looking at cars when it's a hire car that you can't remember anything
about other than if being "a car" doesn't help. B-)

You don't get much choice of car in a 5m radius and the key probably helps.

On 02/02/2016 12:06, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 02 Feb 2016 09:15:14 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

I only use the phone as a GPS when I have to and it's no use mounted
on the handlebar of a motorbike in the rain or when being operated by
fingers wrapped in leather gloves. It is very reassuring to know I
have a GPS on me at all times though (and I have made use of it many
times and in ways I wouldn't have first predicted).

Indeed, I find I quite often use mine as the real time traffic
information is quite handy. Also the ability to not have to fondle it,
and just say "navigate to xyz" to it is quite nice. (just a bit annoying
that it does not understand a voice command to navigate to an address
that is in its phonebook, but will navigate to one that it can find on a
web search.

Now, if you don't actually crawl out from under your stone very often
or aren't someone who likes doing stuff in the moment, 'planning' a
route 3 weeks in advance could be considered the fun bit of any trip
(till the first road closure of course). ;-)

I just checked one list of available POI files, and they claim to have
300,000 different ones now.... TNPs probably going to have a hard time
avoiding all those places just so he can sock it to "the man".


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 02/02/16 12:30, dennis@home wrote:
On 02/02/2016 08:24, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 2 Feb 2016 09:11:06 +1100, Blanco wrote:

If you have a recent smart phone you can use the GPS to mark the
location too.

If you have GPS on so you don't have to wait 5 mins until it has
worked out where it is.

If you have quickfix enabled they take a few seconds even from cold.


Not accurate down to the car. You need the photo too.

It ought to get you within beeper range though. Old car was about 20
yds, new car is nearer 50.

GPS tends to be accurate to about 5m or less these days.
They usually have at least 12 channel receivers so they can get good
accuracy if they can see enough sky.


Very handy to get to roughly where the car is and start looking at
individual cars tho.

Looking at cars when it's a hire car that you can't remember anything
about other than if being "a car" doesn't help. B-)

You don't get much choice of car in a 5m radius and the key probably helps.

Oddly enough, remembering where you parked it in the first place and
noting down its number will generally get you to better than 1cm accuracy.

How many times do I write on my parking ticket 'level 5, opposite the
entrance'


Or take bearings on various objects in large open air parks.


FFS we seem to be becoming a nation that cant find the toilet without a
satnav.


--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

On 02/02/16 12:32, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/02/2016 12:06, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 02 Feb 2016 09:15:14 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

I only use the phone as a GPS when I have to and it's no use mounted
on the handlebar of a motorbike in the rain or when being operated by
fingers wrapped in leather gloves. It is very reassuring to know I
have a GPS on me at all times though (and I have made use of it many
times and in ways I wouldn't have first predicted).

Indeed, I find I quite often use mine as the real time traffic
information is quite handy. Also the ability to not have to fondle it,
and just say "navigate to xyz" to it is quite nice. (just a bit annoying
that it does not understand a voice command to navigate to an address
that is in its phonebook, but will navigate to one that it can find on a
web search.

Now, if you don't actually crawl out from under your stone very often
or aren't someone who likes doing stuff in the moment, 'planning' a
route 3 weeks in advance could be considered the fun bit of any trip
(till the first road closure of course). ;-)

I just checked one list of available POI files, and they claim to have
300,000 different ones now.... TNPs probably going to have a hard time
avoiding all those places just so he can sock it to "the man".


I simply dont bother to even look. I either know the particular point of
interest (man made) that is driving me to a destination, or I look at a
map for scenery hints and so on.

Google maps is actually quite handy there. Satnavs less so.






--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

T i m submitted this idea :
Now, if you don't actually crawl out from under your stone very often
or aren't someone who likes doing stuff in the moment, 'planning' a
route 3 weeks in advance could be considered the fun bit of any trip
(till the first road closure of course). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Well said sir!

I struggled for many years with paper maps and no time or knowledge of
where I might need to go next. So valuable time was lost, planning a
route to where I needed to be and hoping for the best.

I grabbed a satnav GPS receiver, just as soon as they became available
so as to see what use they could be, with its output fed into an early
green screen laptop to work out a route.

I saw the possibilities, so bought one of the early Garmin self
contained units, able to plot a route. At the time, I was working at
several fixed locations, several hundreds of them, so I fed these in to
the unit. The nature of the job meant I might be needed to get from
where I was, to one of the other locations fast, no time to look at a
paper map. I found it to be absolutely superb, just pick where I needed
to be from the named points in my list.

My present SatNav system, now used entirely for leisure, is linked to
RDS and the Internet, so it gets constant updates on road conditions,
flooded roads etc. and can route around them.

Yes I can use a map and do so, but not for route navigation anymore. It
gets opened once I arrive at my destination, to see what is around the
area.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On 02/02/2016 12:06, T i m wrote:

Now, if you don't actually crawl out from under your stone very often
or aren't someone who likes doing stuff in the moment, 'planning' a
route 3 weeks in advance could be considered the fun bit of any trip
(till the first road closure of course). ;-)

I don't use a GPS, and route planning when driving involves getting in
the car, looking at the map and then going. It never seems to be that
hard - even when crossing countries. Granted I normally have a
navigator, but I don't do too badly without one as well.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
If you have GPS on so you don't have to wait 5 mins until it has
worked out where it is.

If you have quickfix enabled they take a few seconds even from cold.

What's quickfix? Sounds intriguing.


GPS tends to be accurate to about 5m or less these days.
They usually have at least 12 channel receivers so they can get good
accuracy if they can see enough sky.

My Android phone (Samsung Galaxy S2) takes a very variable length of time to
get a fix. I have an app called GPS Status installed which shows the number
of satellites in view and indicates whether or not they are supplying
information that enables a fix to be calculated. It also downloads S-GPS
information from the internet (assuming there is mobile/wifi coverage) which
helps to give a quicker fix - I think it supplies the "almanack" information
which is only transmitted from the satellites every few minutes.

But even with this I can find that from cold it can take from a couple of
seconds to tens of minutes to get a fix - usually if I get fed up of
waiting, a reboot of the phone will help.

And GPS Status shows a maximum of about 10 satellites out in the open,
whereas some newer phones can see many more, and I'm sure this allows them
to get a quicker fix and/or to give a more accurate location. The best
precision is reported to be about 10 m, and usually it is more like 20-50 m.

It may be time to get a newer phone, both to give a faster processor and a
better GPS.

I'd keep GPS and wifi or mobile internet turned on all the time, but both
drain the battery: even with them turned off, I'm lucky if the battery will
last all day. If I'm going anywhere that wifi or GPS are essential (eg
tracking a long walk) I use a large external battery that keeps the phone
charged. It doesn't help that I live in a weak mobile phone area so my phone
winds its gain up to maximum to search for a mobile phone signal to check
for incoming calls/texts: if I spend the day in a large town, the battery
lasts a *lots* longer than if I'm at home, all other things being the same;
the only difference seems to be mobile signal strength, as reported on the
phone's Settings | Battery graph.

"Clive George" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 02/02/2016 12:06, T i m wrote:

Now, if you don't actually crawl out from under your stone very often
or aren't someone who likes doing stuff in the moment, 'planning' a
route 3 weeks in advance could be considered the fun bit of any trip
(till the first road closure of course). ;-)

I don't use a GPS, and route planning when driving involves getting in the
car, looking at the map and then going. It never seems to be that hard -
even when crossing countries. Granted I normally have a navigator, but I
don't do too badly without one as well.

Depends whether you have the memory of a goldfish or not! I have never been
the sort of person who can look at a map and memorise a route (eg sequence
of road numbers and junctions) for a long journey. I usually write down the
key junctions and stick it on my dashboard to refer to.

My wife has always suffered from car sickness so has found it difficult to
read a map in a car, so her "coping strategy" was to "teach herself" (how?)
to memorise a whole journey - she says that she can "see" the picture of the
map in her memory and can check turnings as she goes without needing to look
at a real map Quite a skill!

Satnavs are very useful - either for giving you turn by turn instructions
which you follow blindly (though still checking that you don't drive into a
river just because "the satnav told me to", or else to show you your current
location on an OS map so you can make up a route as you go, with the benefit
of always knowing where you are and how far to the turning that you want to
take.

Satnavs are great for giving you the confidence to take roads that you'd
never otherwise take for fear of getting lost in the of nowhere and thinking
"where am I?".

On 02/02/2016 16:57, NY wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
If you have GPS on so you don't have to wait 5 mins until it has
worked out where it is.

If you have quickfix enabled they take a few seconds even from cold.

What's quickfix? Sounds intriguing.


GPS tends to be accurate to about 5m or less these days.
They usually have at least 12 channel receivers so they can get good
accuracy if they can see enough sky.

My Android phone (Samsung Galaxy S2) takes a very variable length of
time to get a fix. I have an app called GPS Status installed which shows
the number of satellites in view and indicates whether or not they are
supplying information that enables a fix to be calculated. It also
downloads S-GPS information from the internet (assuming there is
mobile/wifi coverage) which helps to give a quicker fix - I think it
supplies the "almanack" information which is only transmitted from the
satellites every few minutes.

That is "quickfix".
It should enable the GPS to find the satellites in seconds as it knows
which to look for and doesn't need to download the data from them to
know their precise position in space.


But even with this I can find that from cold it can take from a couple
of seconds to tens of minutes to get a fix - usually if I get fed up of
waiting, a reboot of the phone will help.

That sounds like cr@p software. A reboot shouldn't really change
anything if the software is working correctly.


And GPS Status shows a maximum of about 10 satellites out in the open,
whereas some newer phones can see many more, and I'm sure this allows
them to get a quicker fix and/or to give a more accurate location. The
best precision is reported to be about 10 m, and usually it is more like
20-50 m.


It may be time to get a newer phone, both to give a faster processor and
a better GPS.

My Sony S3 has a 24 channel chip AFAIK.
In doors it is currently using 14 of them and has an accuracy of about
9m. Outdoors where it gets a better view I expect it to be better.


I'd keep GPS and wifi or mobile internet turned on all the time, but
both drain the battery: even with them turned off, I'm lucky if the
battery will last all day. If I'm going anywhere that wifi or GPS are
essential (eg tracking a long walk) I use a large external battery that
keeps the phone charged. It doesn't help that I live in a weak mobile
phone area so my phone winds its gain up to maximum to search for a
mobile phone signal to check for incoming calls/texts: if I spend the
day in a large town, the battery lasts a *lots* longer than if I'm at
home, all other things being the same; the only difference seems to be
mobile signal strength, as reported on the phone's Settings | Battery
graph.

Mine turns the GPS on every few minutes and takes a fix, the battery
lasts about 3 days before I charge it. It says about 60% remaining by then.

On Tue, 02 Feb 2016 14:05:39 GMT, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

T i m submitted this idea :
Now, if you don't actually crawl out from under your stone very often
or aren't someone who likes doing stuff in the moment, 'planning' a
route 3 weeks in advance could be considered the fun bit of any trip
(till the first road closure of course). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Well said sir!

Cheers. There aren't many bits of kit that I would say this about but
if I lost my GPS I'd go out and buy a new one ASAP.

I struggled for many years with paper maps and no time or knowledge of
where I might need to go next.

And that's the thing isn't it. For those who can only envisage the
concept of 'a journey' you plan as if you were going to the North Pole
have never been called mid-journey and asked to go somewhere else
instead / first.

So valuable time was lost, planning a
route to where I needed to be and hoping for the best.

Yup. We did do that when planning a camping trip, but only in pencil.
We could get to a campsite and really like it, stay there longer than
we 'planned' and so cut out a whole section. With the GPS we just
select a previously inputted campsite / waypoint or just enter the
postcode of our new destination.

I grabbed a satnav GPS receiver, just as soon as they became available
so as to see what use they could be, with its output fed into an early
green screen laptop to work out a route.

Similar here. My first GPS, a Garmin GPS III+ only had direction and
distance from the destination but even that was better than any map
when you didn't know where you were in the first place. ;-)

I saw the possibilities, so bought one of the early Garmin self
contained units, able to plot a route.

I think I got that with my GPS V.

At the time, I was working at
several fixed locations, several hundreds of them, so I fed these in to
the unit. The nature of the job meant I might be needed to get from
where I was, to one of the other locations fast, no time to look at a
paper map. I found it to be absolutely superb, just pick where I needed
to be from the named points in my list.

Perfect / brilliant.

My present SatNav system, now used entirely for leisure, is linked to
RDS and the Internet, so it gets constant updates on road conditions,
flooded roads etc. and can route around them.

Yup, I now have a Garmin Nuvi 215 for car / pocket use and a Garmin
Quest for use on the motorbikes / cycles (24hr rechargeable battery
life and fully waterproof).

Yes I can use a map and do so, but not for route navigation anymore. It
gets opened once I arrive at my destination, to see what is around the
area.

Absolutely. I wouldn't do any real 'off road' stuff by relying on the
GPS alone and find it reasonably interesting getting an overview from
a nice map.

I also still buy the 'new' AA big road atlas's you see on sale in
petrol stations for 99p or so (and often one for each car, 'just in
case') but I've also stuck quite a few in recycling a year later
completely un-referenced. ;-(

However, the biggest plus for the GPS by far is the amount of rows it
saved between me and her when it came to navigating.

I'm driving because I can generally 'get on with it', prefer to drive
than be driven and am happy to drive under all conditions.

So, we get a phone call mid journey, requesting we divert somewhere we
don't know. So, I'd sling the map in her lap and that's when I could
sense the tension changing. 'She's not wearing the right glasses for
map-reading' ... 'it makes her feel sick' ... 'can't you stop and do
it' ... and doesn't seem to want to swap roles so that I can do the
map reading because 'it's dark'. ;-(

When I got the GPS she would remind *me* to bring it with us because
she knew just how much easier it made both our lives. ;-)

With GPS's as cheap, capable and user friendly as they are now I
really don't know why anyone (who ever drives further than Tescos and
back) doesn't have one ... unless they are Luddites that is. ;-)

(And having one on a phone or built into the car also counts).

Cheers, T i m

On 02/02/16 17:52, dennis@home wrote:


That sounds like cr@p software. A reboot shouldn't really change
anything if the software is working correctly.


Of course it does if the chips have warmed up in between times



--
No Apple devices were knowingly used in the preparation of this post.

On Tue, 02 Feb 2016 15:55:45 +0000, Clive George
wrote:

On 02/02/2016 12:06, T i m wrote:

Now, if you don't actually crawl out from under your stone very often
or aren't someone who likes doing stuff in the moment, 'planning' a
route 3 weeks in advance could be considered the fun bit of any trip
(till the first road closure of course). ;-)

I don't use a GPS, and route planning when driving involves getting in
the car, looking at the map and then going.

Good for finding 'Unit 3, The Trading Estate, The back of Nowhere', in
the dark.

It never seems to be that
hard -

No one ever said it was 'hard' but no one could ever say it was easier
than being guided by a few billions $$ worth of space tech.

even when crossing countries.

Yup, we have all 'managed' doing all sorts of things by hand or using
hand tools ... just there are often ways of making life easier now
days and most *enjoy* making use of them.

Granted I normally have a
navigator,

Ah, now we get the whole story ... "Yeah, I don't need a GPS ...
because I have a human navigator doing it all for me" rolls eyes

but I don't do too badly without one as well.

Hmmm, I'd prefer to better than 'not too badly' without having to have
a navigator and under all conditions and with no notice (even enough
notice to ensure I have a suitable map of the required area).

Now, I can understand why you wouldn't want a Garmin (or TomTom) GPS
if you were stuck on Linux as I don't believe either are supported on
Linux (even though the GPS's themselves now probably run on it). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 02/02/2016 14:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/02/16 12:32, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/02/2016 12:06, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 02 Feb 2016 09:15:14 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

I only use the phone as a GPS when I have to and it's no use mounted
on the handlebar of a motorbike in the rain or when being operated by
fingers wrapped in leather gloves. It is very reassuring to know I
have a GPS on me at all times though (and I have made use of it many
times and in ways I wouldn't have first predicted).

Indeed, I find I quite often use mine as the real time traffic
information is quite handy. Also the ability to not have to fondle it,
and just say "navigate to xyz" to it is quite nice. (just a bit annoying
that it does not understand a voice command to navigate to an address
that is in its phonebook, but will navigate to one that it can find on a
web search.

Now, if you don't actually crawl out from under your stone very often
or aren't someone who likes doing stuff in the moment, 'planning' a
route 3 weeks in advance could be considered the fun bit of any trip
(till the first road closure of course). ;-)

I just checked one list of available POI files, and they claim to have
300,000 different ones now.... TNPs probably going to have a hard time
avoiding all those places just so he can sock it to "the man".


I simply dont bother to even look. I either know the particular point of
interest (man made) that is driving me to a destination, or I look at a
map for scenery hints and so on.

Google maps is actually quite handy there. Satnavs less so.

You realise google maps *is* a satnav these days?



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Tuesday, 2 February 2016 18:11:04 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 02 Feb 2016 15:55:45 +0000, Clive George
wrote:
On 02/02/2016 12:06, T i m wrote:

I don't use a GPS, and route planning when driving involves getting in
the car, looking at the map and then going.

Good for finding 'Unit 3, The Trading Estate, The back of Nowhere', in
the dark.

It never seems to be that
hard -

No one ever said it was 'hard' but no one could ever say it was easier
than being guided by a few billions $$ worth of space tech.

even when crossing countries.

Yup, we have all 'managed' doing all sorts of things by hand or using
hand tools ... just there are often ways of making life easier now
days and most *enjoy* making use of them.

I figure satnav saves its cost in wasted fuel easily. And again several times over in wasted time.


NT

T i m wrote
John Rumm wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
charles wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
dennis@home wrote
charles wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote

Nowadays, I take a photo of the car (with reg plate).

yebbut I keep my camera in the car..

use your phone!

If you have a recent smart phone you can
use the GPS to mark the location too.

If you don't have a smart phone, a tablet, or a surface and you own
a car, and you can read a map, its amazing what you don't need.

a map won't necessarily help you find your car in a car park

Never said it did, it just extends the range of technology you don't
need.

I had an argument with a technophile friend. Full of himself and his
gadgets 'a satnav will always tell you how to get there better than a
map'

'Possibly, but it doesn't help me decide where I want to go, does it?'

What about if it has lots of interesting "points of interest" overlays
loaded?

Quite, so does exactly help someone (who isn't a Luddite g) see
what is on offer locally and the distances to each, even the free stuff.
;-)

When we first when motorcycle touring our daughter (my pillion) was
quite young but was able to read a map fairly well. We had an intercom
and she had the map in a plastic cover and rested it in a 'bum bag'
strapped round my waist. Everything was fine with her reading the map
... unless it was dark, she was tired, it was raining or she needed to
turn the page.

She might also not spot road tolls or ferries. ;-)

And clearly much worse when riding without a pillion.

Same with a car.

Then, once we had traveled say 200 miles between campsites,
we might then 'waste' an hour finding the actual site because the
scale of the road atlas wasn't really suitable for the detailed stuff.

Then we bought a GPS and all these issues just disappeared. Door
to door (or tent to tent g) in any weather or levels of darkness,
'avoiding' toll roads, ferries and roadworks with no issues at all.
We therefore spent more time 'on holiday' and less time being
frustrated or risking missing the closing time of campsites.

Once we were there we could select 'Nearest fuel' (all brands and
including telephone numbers so you can check they are open),

One thing I found ours doesn't do very well is show you the 24/7
ones so you can plan your trip to use them when travelling at night.

And now that the new superhighway into Sydney from the south
avoids all towns completely, it would be better if you could enter
your car's fuel tank capacity and mpgs and when you filled last
and how much and have it tell you which of the exits you need
to use to fill up and when you need to use a particular one
when using the superhighway in the middle of the night etc.

No doubt both will show up sometime.

or 'Nearest Food' (all types) or what could be more important
in an emergency (anyone's emergency), 'Nearest hospital'.

'Of course' I managed before the GPS in just the same way
I managed before I got a remote controlled TV or washing
machine but sometimes you want more than 'just managing'.

Yeah, specially when you have the phone with you anyway.

We were dropping some stuff off on Freecycle yesterday and whilst I
knew roughly where the person was I didn't know exactly. Because the
Mrs was with me I started to get her to enter the address into Google
maps on my phone, rather than stopping to set the GPS up. She gets
very travel sick and seems to be someone who can't get along with
touch screens so after a few aborted attempts to type in the
destination, I got her to talk it in. Ting, up it comes and just in
time to avoid us overshooting. ;-)

I don't find siri on the iphone works that well for navigation.

Stupid thing tells me that there is no route to Wall St NY when I tell
it to direct me to Waugh St and even spelling the name doesn't work.
Obviously easily fixed and it looks like google maps does that better.
Main problem is that it isnt as easy to trigger on an iphone.

Whoops, google maps is just as completely hopeless
on that even when you add the town and country.

Both should obviously first look for stuff that sounds
like wall st close to where you are and can obviously
be fixed to do that. Google maps did try water st
once, siri never did.

I only use the phone as a GPS when I have to

I never use anything else now even tho I do have a couple
of very good dedicated GPSs, I don't use them at all anymore.

and it's no use mounted on the handlebar of a motorbike in the
rain or when being operated by fingers wrapped in leather gloves.
It is very reassuring to know I have a GPS on me at all times though

Yeah, you can obviously stop and use it if the worst comes to the worst.

(and I have made use of it many times

I use it routinely on the garage/yard sale run and when
out walking for exercise in the bush outside town to drop
a pin where a barbed wire fence is easy to get thru etc.

and in ways I wouldn't have first predicted).

Can't think of any examples of that myself.

Now, if you don't actually crawl out from under your stone very
often or aren't someone who likes doing stuff in the moment,
'planning' a route 3 weeks in advance could be considered
the fun bit of any trip (till the first road closure of course). ;-)

Or traffic. Interesting coming into Sydney in the early morning
rush hour running very late trying to catch the train home since
I was driving the kid's car because they were moving there and
weren't too keen on driving in Sydney traffic having just learnt
to drive in a country town of 20K, being updated on the arrival
time. Quite literally jumped out of the car stopped at the lights
outside the main central railway station and left one of them to
take it from there. He wasn't too keen but handled it fine and
given that I missed the train by minutes, drove back into the
center of the city in the evening to meet up with me again,
so he clearly wasn't too fazed. Using the gps in his phone
both times in what is quite difficult to do with a map even
if you do have a passenger/navigator if you haven't been
there before. Trivial with the GPS in the phone.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 02/02/2016 08:24, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 2 Feb 2016 09:11:06 +1100, Blanco wrote:

If you have a recent smart phone you can use the GPS to mark the
location too.

If you have GPS on so you don't have to wait 5 mins until it has
worked out where it is.

If you have quickfix enabled they take a few seconds even from cold.


Not accurate down to the car. You need the photo too.

It ought to get you within beeper range though. Old car was about 20
yds, new car is nearer 50.

GPS tends to be accurate to about 5m or less these days.
They usually have at least 12 channel receivers so they can get good
accuracy if they can see enough sky.


Very handy to get to roughly where the car is and start looking at
individual cars tho.

Looking at cars when it's a hire car that you can't remember anything
about other than if being "a car" doesn't help. B-)

You don't get much choice of car in a 5m radius

But you don’t get that in the underground
carparks or the big multistory carparks either.

and the key probably helps.

A photo including the plate works much better.

On 02/02/16 18:16, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/02/2016 14:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/02/16 12:32, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/02/2016 12:06, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 02 Feb 2016 09:15:14 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

I only use the phone as a GPS when I have to and it's no use mounted
on the handlebar of a motorbike in the rain or when being operated by
fingers wrapped in leather gloves. It is very reassuring to know I
have a GPS on me at all times though (and I have made use of it many
times and in ways I wouldn't have first predicted).

Indeed, I find I quite often use mine as the real time traffic
information is quite handy. Also the ability to not have to fondle it,
and just say "navigate to xyz" to it is quite nice. (just a bit annoying
that it does not understand a voice command to navigate to an address
that is in its phonebook, but will navigate to one that it can find on a
web search.

Now, if you don't actually crawl out from under your stone very often
or aren't someone who likes doing stuff in the moment, 'planning' a
route 3 weeks in advance could be considered the fun bit of any trip
(till the first road closure of course). ;-)

I just checked one list of available POI files, and they claim to have
300,000 different ones now.... TNPs probably going to have a hard time
avoiding all those places just so he can sock it to "the man".


I simply dont bother to even look. I either know the particular point of
interest (man made) that is driving me to a destination, or I look at a
map for scenery hints and so on.

Google maps is actually quite handy there. Satnavs less so.

You realise google maps *is* a satnav these days?


When it tells me where I am, I will agree,

Until then it isn't




--
Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people.
But Marxism is the crack cocaine.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 02/02/16 12:30, dennis@home wrote:
On 02/02/2016 08:24, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 2 Feb 2016 09:11:06 +1100, Blanco wrote:

If you have a recent smart phone you can use the GPS to mark the
location too.

If you have GPS on so you don't have to wait 5 mins until it has
worked out where it is.

If you have quickfix enabled they take a few seconds even from cold.


Not accurate down to the car. You need the photo too.

It ought to get you within beeper range though. Old car was about 20
yds, new car is nearer 50.

GPS tends to be accurate to about 5m or less these days.
They usually have at least 12 channel receivers so they can get good
accuracy if they can see enough sky.


Very handy to get to roughly where the car is and start looking at
individual cars tho.

Looking at cars when it's a hire car that you can't remember anything
about other than if being "a car" doesn't help. B-)

You don't get much choice of car in a 5m radius and the key probably
helps.

Oddly enough, remembering where you parked it in the first place and
noting down its number will generally get you to better than 1cm accuracy.

How many times do I write on my parking ticket 'level 5, opposite the
entrance'

Much more convenient to take a photo with your phone.

Or take bearings on various objects in large open air parks.

Much more convenient to tap the app which records the gps
position and takes a photo of the car front with plate etc.

FFS we seem to be becoming a nation that cant find the toilet without a
satnav.

Its not a matter of can't find its a matter of what is the most
convenient way of keeping track of where you left the car.

I've never even come close to losing a car in the carpark
but its much more convenient to take a photo with the
phone when I am driving what isnt my car.

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
. uk...
T i m submitted this idea :
Now, if you don't actually crawl out from under your stone very often
or aren't someone who likes doing stuff in the moment, 'planning' a
route 3 weeks in advance could be considered the fun bit of any trip
(till the first road closure of course). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Well said sir!

I struggled for many years with paper maps and no time or knowledge of
where I might need to go next. So valuable time was lost, planning a route
to where I needed to be and hoping for the best.

I grabbed a satnav GPS receiver, just as soon as they became available so
as to see what use they could be, with its output fed into an early green
screen laptop to work out a route.

I saw the possibilities, so bought one of the early Garmin self contained
units, able to plot a route. At the time, I was working at several fixed
locations, several hundreds of them, so I fed these in to the unit. The
nature of the job meant I might be needed to get from where I was, to one
of the other locations fast, no time to look at a paper map. I found it to
be absolutely superb, just pick where I needed to be from the named points
in my list.

My present SatNav system, now used entirely for leisure, is linked to RDS
and the Internet, so it gets constant updates on road conditions, flooded
roads etc. and can route around them.

Yes I can use a map and do so, but not for route navigation anymore. It
gets opened once I arrive at my destination, to see what is around the
area.

I don't bother with a paper map for that anymore either, use google maps
most of the time or google earth when out in the scrub outside built up
areas.

"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
If you have GPS on so you don't have to wait 5 mins until it has
worked out where it is.

If you have quickfix enabled they take a few seconds even from cold.

What's quickfix? Sounds intriguing.


GPS tends to be accurate to about 5m or less these days.
They usually have at least 12 channel receivers so they can get good
accuracy if they can see enough sky.

My Android phone (Samsung Galaxy S2) takes a very variable length of time
to get a fix. I have an app called GPS Status installed which shows the
number of satellites in view and indicates whether or not they are
supplying information that enables a fix to be calculated. It also
downloads S-GPS information from the internet (assuming there is
mobile/wifi coverage) which helps to give a quicker fix - I think it
supplies the "almanack" information which is only transmitted from the
satellites every few minutes.

But even with this I can find that from cold it can take from a couple of
seconds to tens of minutes to get a fix - usually if I get fed up of
waiting, a reboot of the phone will help.

That's because its an S2. The current top of the
range smartphones dont have that problem.

And GPS Status shows a maximum of about 10 satellites out in the open,
whereas some newer phones can see many more, and I'm sure this allows them
to get a quicker fix and/or to give a more accurate location.

And they use wifi and bluetooth to work out where they have
been turned on and so get a first fix much quicker that way too.

The best precision is reported to be about 10 m, and usually it is more
like 20-50 m.

I find mine does vary by the last but thats because its inside
the house which has a metal roof so clearly the visibility of
the satellites isnt that great. Much better outside.

It may be time to get a newer phone, both to give a faster processor and a
better GPS.

Yeah, that would make a big difference. I did that with the previous
Nokia N95 8GB. The gps in the iphone 5 leaves that for dead in every way.

I'd keep GPS and wifi or mobile internet turned on all the time,

I do with wifi and blue tooth. I usually have the mobile data turned
off when I dont need to use it just because I pay for it by the Kb and
have seen the iphone get some updates and podcasts using mobile
data even when I have told it never to do that and to only use wifi.

but both drain the battery: even with them turned off, I'm lucky if the
battery will last all day.

I find it does if I dont use it much, but doesnt
if I use it much for navigation particularly.

I can run it flat in a few hours navigating in the car in heavy
traffic. No big deal because its easy to power from the car but
that can bite you when that isnt possible for some reason.

I was running very late in the run into Sydney to catch the train
from hundreds of Ks out of town. Couldnt power it from the car
and managed to have it run out in the last 20K. Fortunately there
was another in the car powered from the car. But I ended up with
a dead phone in a town that I had to while away the day in since
I managed to miss the train in. Not that easy to find somewhere
to charge it either. Managed to fluke out asking someone in
one of the pedestrian tunnels in the city who told me about
the technical college at the end of the tunnel that has USB
chargers and mains sockets down the center of the benches
in their room that has dedicated PCs for the student use just
inside the entrance.

Must get one of those power packs that can start
the car and charge the phones for that situation.

If I'm going anywhere that wifi or GPS are essential (eg tracking a long
walk) I use a large external battery that keeps the phone charged.

I do use mine for those walks and find I dont need an
external battery. I normally only lose about 30% of the
charge at most and I dont bother to turn the wifi off,
and have to have the bluetooth on for the headset,
with an iphone 5.

It doesn't help that I live in a weak mobile phone area so my phone winds
its gain up to maximum to search for a mobile phone signal to check for
incoming calls/texts:

Mine coverage isnt too bad now. It was pretty poor
initially, bad enough so that it could have been a
problem if I broke my leg or something but fine
now. Where I walk you could go weeks before
anyone ever shows up without any phone access.

if I spend the day in a large town, the battery lasts a *lots* longer than
if I'm at home, all other things being the same;

Yeah, mine did fine all day in Sydney using it to work out
which backpackers I would use that night, booking it, using
google maps to get me there walking, using it to get me
there walking to the places I used to while away the day.

Did need to charge it again in the backpackers that night
only to find that **** all of the powerpoints actually work.

the only difference seems to be mobile signal strength, as reported on the
phone's Settings | Battery graph.

I didnt find mine was that bad in the days when
the phone coverage was poor enough to be a
bit of a worry if I managed to injure myself.

NY wrote
Clive George wrote
T i m wrote

Now, if you don't actually crawl out from under your stone very often
or aren't someone who likes doing stuff in the moment, 'planning' a
route 3 weeks in advance could be considered the fun bit of any trip
(till the first road closure of course). ;-)

I don't use a GPS, and route planning when driving involves getting in
the car, looking at the map and then going. It never seems to be that
hard - even when crossing countries. Granted I normally have a navigator,
but I don't do too badly without one as well.

Depends whether you have the memory of a goldfish or not! I have never
been the sort of person who can look at a map and memorise a route (eg
sequence of road numbers and junctions) for a long journey. I usually
write down the key junctions and stick it on my dashboard to refer to.

Even if you do have a good memory, I'd much rather have the system
tell me which lane I need to be in coming up to complex junctions etc.

And tell me what time I will arrive allowing for the current MEASURED
traffic when I am running very late and can choose to hoon thru
exceeding the speed limit when I choose to do that to get there in time.

My wife has always suffered from car sickness so has found it difficult to
read a map in a car, so her "coping strategy" was to "teach herself"
(how?) to memorise a whole journey - she says that she can "see" the
picture of the map in her memory and can check turnings as she goes
without needing to look at a real map Quite a skill!

Yes, but a decent gps does so much more with routing around traffic
congestion and continuously telling you what time you will arrive etc.

Satnavs are very useful - either for giving you turn by turn instructions
which you follow blindly (though still checking that you don't drive into
a river just because "the satnav told me to", or else to show you your
current location on an OS map so you can make up a route as you go, with
the benefit of always knowing where you are and how far to the turning
that you want to take.

Yeah, its hilarious watching the worst of the dinosaurs making
spectacular fools of themselves denying they are of any use at all.

Plenty did the same thing with mobile phones too.

In fact a mate of mine still refuses to have anything to do with them.

Satnavs are great for giving you the confidence to take roads that you'd
never otherwise take for fear of getting lost in the of nowhere and
thinking "where am I?".

My sense of direction is much better than most people's so I never
have any problem knowing where I am, even without a map or
compass or anything at all, but its silly to claim that satnavs don't
have any value and a good indication of what fools those who do are.

On Tue, 02 Feb 2016 18:39:09 +0000, Tim Streater
wrote:

In article , T i m
wrote:

On Tue, 02 Feb 2016 15:55:45 +0000, Clive George
wrote:

Granted I normally have a navigator,

Ah, now we get the whole story ... "Yeah, I don't need a GPS ...
because I have a human navigator doing it all for me" rolls eyes

Why you rolling your eyes?

Because of the ridiculousness of his statement Tim. *Of course* you
are less likely to appreciate the support of a GPS if you have someone
navigating beside you. It's just like those saying they 'never had any
issues with Linux seeing all their hardware when it turns out half
their hardware isn't working (but 'ok' because they don't actually use
it) or they just use their PC as a typewriter'. ;-(

Drunk or something?

Rarely (twice in my life so far) and certainly not before driving to
pick my Mum up. ;-)

C'mon T i m , if you
have someone to do the navigating you (mostly) don't need a satnav.

No, get away! ;-)

Yes, a satnav would be useful when trying to to find some street in a
strange town at night.

Not 'would be', *is* to any of those who have bothered to give them a
go (who have the need, 'horses for courses' etc).

So we're thinking about getting one and have
been thinking about it for 10 years.

No time like the present. Go on, it won't take you off the edge of the
earth. ;-)

In our case, whoever is not driving is doing the navigating.

And that's fine. Unfortunately, as I generally do the driving and she
get's very travel sick when moving (and reading etc) the options
aren't they great. [1]

And
whoever planned the trip has the responsibility to print off Google
Maps maps (which we keep and re-use for next time) and Street-Viewing
the destination area, too.

Ah, I see where you might be getting confused (or simply are never in
the situation) ... we / I rarely 'plan a trip', we 'just need to go
somewhere' and often at fairly shot notice or even when already out on
the road.

Which can be very handy so that f'rinstance
I stay in the left lane just there and don't turn right over the edge
of Beachy Head.

Ooops, sorry, I didn't realise that was actually a fear of yours?

Cheers, T i m

[1] She used to get 'motion sick' (as she wasn't actually traveling as
such) when in the mobile library and other people were walking about.
;-(

The Natural Philosopher Wrote in message:
On 02/02/16 18:16, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/02/2016 14:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/02/16 12:32, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/02/2016 12:06, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 02 Feb 2016 09:15:14 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

I only use the phone as a GPS when I have to and it's no use mounted
on the handlebar of a motorbike in the rain or when being operated by
fingers wrapped in leather gloves. It is very reassuring to know I
have a GPS on me at all times though (and I have made use of it many
times and in ways I wouldn't have first predicted).

Indeed, I find I quite often use mine as the real time traffic
information is quite handy. Also the ability to not have to fondle it,
and just say "navigate to xyz" to it is quite nice. (just a bit annoying
that it does not understand a voice command to navigate to an address
that is in its phonebook, but will navigate to one that it can find on a
web search.

Now, if you don't actually crawl out from under your stone very often
or aren't someone who likes doing stuff in the moment, 'planning' a
route 3 weeks in advance could be considered the fun bit of any trip
(till the first road closure of course). ;-)

I just checked one list of available POI files, and they claim to have
300,000 different ones now.... TNPs probably going to have a hard time
avoiding all those places just so he can sock it to "the man".


I simply dont bother to even look. I either know the particular point of
interest (man made) that is driving me to a destination, or I look at a
map for scenery hints and so on.

Google maps is actually quite handy there. Satnavs less so.

You realise google maps *is* a satnav these days?


When it tells me where I am, I will agree,

Until then it isn't

Google maps on my phone will tell me were I am


--
Chris French


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Tue, 2 Feb 2016 11:19:56 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Tuesday, 2 February 2016 18:11:04 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 02 Feb 2016 15:55:45 +0000, Clive George
wrote:
On 02/02/2016 12:06, T i m wrote:

I don't use a GPS, and route planning when driving involves getting in
the car, looking at the map and then going.

Good for finding 'Unit 3, The Trading Estate, The back of Nowhere', in
the dark.

It never seems to be that
hard -

No one ever said it was 'hard' but no one could ever say it was easier
than being guided by a few billions $$ worth of space tech.

even when crossing countries.

Yup, we have all 'managed' doing all sorts of things by hand or using
hand tools ... just there are often ways of making life easier now
days and most *enjoy* making use of them.

I figure satnav saves its cost in wasted fuel easily.

Absolutely, but who couldn't afford to spend 50 quid on one these
days?

And again several times over in wasted time.

Yup, another pertinent selling point.

They (decent GPS solutions) are more than just an efficient routing
device of course. If you break down they are a good way of telling the
recovery services *exactly* where you are. They can tell you *exactly*
where the nearest petrol station is, even if it is right off the
beaten track or even behind you (and provide the phone number so you
can check they are open before you waste your remaining fuel).

Now, you can hear the flatworlders jumping up and saying 'you
shouldn't leave it so you are low on fuel or you should carry some
spare' but maybe they have never ridden a motorcycle round the top of
Scotland on a Sunday evening. ;-(

Funnily, I heard one motorcyclist say they just spent £15,000 on a new
motorbike *so* couldn't afford a GPS for 'the bike'. I'm pretty sure
'the bike' CGAF about getting lost, the GPS was for *him*. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 01/02/2016 22:11, Blanco wrote:


"dennis@home" wrote in message
b.com...
On 01/02/2016 16:06, charles wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher


Nowadays, I take a photo of the car (with reg plate).

yebbut I keep my camera in the car..

use your phone!


If you have a recent smart phone you can use the GPS to mark the
location too.

Not accurate down to the car. You need the photo too.

Very handy to get to roughly where the car is and start looking at
individual cars tho.

I recall doing that once in an _enormous_ car park in France.

When I got back ours was the only car left!

Andy

On 02/02/2016 20:42, Chris French wrote:
The Natural Philosopher Wrote in message:
On 02/02/16 18:16, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/02/2016 14:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/02/16 12:32, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/02/2016 12:06, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 02 Feb 2016 09:15:14 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

I only use the phone as a GPS when I have to and it's no use mounted
on the handlebar of a motorbike in the rain or when being operated by
fingers wrapped in leather gloves. It is very reassuring to know I
have a GPS on me at all times though (and I have made use of it many
times and in ways I wouldn't have first predicted).

Indeed, I find I quite often use mine as the real time traffic
information is quite handy. Also the ability to not have to fondle it,
and just say "navigate to xyz" to it is quite nice. (just a bit annoying
that it does not understand a voice command to navigate to an address
that is in its phonebook, but will navigate to one that it can find on a
web search.

Now, if you don't actually crawl out from under your stone very often
or aren't someone who likes doing stuff in the moment, 'planning' a
route 3 weeks in advance could be considered the fun bit of any trip
(till the first road closure of course). ;-)

I just checked one list of available POI files, and they claim to have
300,000 different ones now.... TNPs probably going to have a hard time
avoiding all those places just so he can sock it to "the man".


I simply dont bother to even look. I either know the particular point of
interest (man made) that is driving me to a destination, or I look at a
map for scenery hints and so on.

Google maps is actually quite handy there. Satnavs less so.

You realise google maps *is* a satnav these days?


When it tells me where I am, I will agree,

Until then it isn't

Google maps on my phone will tell me were I am

....and does turn by turn navigation on mine as well


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

T i m wrote
Harry Bloomfield wrote
T i m wrote

Now, if you don't actually crawl out from under your stone very often
or aren't someone who likes doing stuff in the moment, 'planning' a
route 3 weeks in advance could be considered the fun bit of any trip
(till the first road closure of course). ;-)

Well said sir!

Cheers. There aren't many bits of kit that I would say this about
but if I lost my GPS I'd go out and buy a new one ASAP.

I wouldn't and in fact stopped using mine.

I much prefer the phone, because I have that with me all the time,
and it does things much better, particularly with live measured
traffic and stuff like street view that can be handy at times and
being so easy to do proper google searches when the GPS itself
doesn't show you what you want POI wise etc and being able to
just tap on an address in the google hit or an email or facebook
'inbox' and have that auto handed to the mapper which then
directs you to that place etc. And is always completely up to date.

I struggled for many years with paper maps and no
time or knowledge of where I might need to go next.

And that's the thing isn't it. For those who can only envisage the
concept of 'a journey' you plan as if you were going to the North Pole
have never been called mid-journey and asked to go somewhere else
instead / first.

So valuable time was lost, planning a route to
where I needed to be and hoping for the best.

Yup. We did do that when planning a camping trip, but only in
pencil. We could get to a campsite and really like it, stay there
longer than we 'planned' and so cut out a whole section. With
the GPS we just select a previously inputted campsite / waypoint
or just enter the postcode of our new destination.

And when out walking for exercise its handy to just go wherever
looks interesting at the time particularly where you haven't been
before and then just ask it for the best route back to the car etc.

Same with wandering around a city as a tourist, just wander
around what looks interesting and then ask it to show you
the best public transport to get back to where you want to
end up at the end of the day etc. Leaves farting around with
timetables etc for dead.

I grabbed a satnav GPS receiver, just as soon as they became
available so as to see what use they could be, with its output
fed into an early green screen laptop to work out a route.

Similar here. My first GPS, a Garmin GPS III+ only had direction and
distance from the destination but even that was better than any
map when you didn't know where you were in the first place. ;-)

I saw the possibilities, so bought one of the early
Garmin self contained units, able to plot a route.

I think I got that with my GPS V.

At the time, I was working at
several fixed locations, several hundreds of them, so I fed these in to
the unit. The nature of the job meant I might be needed to get from
where I was, to one of the other locations fast, no time to look at a
paper map. I found it to be absolutely superb, just pick where I needed
to be from the named points in my list.

Perfect / brilliant.

My present SatNav system, now used entirely for leisure, is linked to
RDS and the Internet, so it gets constant updates on road conditions,
flooded roads etc. and can route around them.

Yup, I now have a Garmin Nuvi 215 for car / pocket use and a Garmin
Quest for use on the motorbikes / cycles (24hr rechargeable battery
life and fully waterproof).

Yes I can use a map and do so, but not for route navigation anymore. It
gets opened once I arrive at my destination, to see what is around the
area.

Absolutely. I wouldn't do any real 'off road' stuff by relying
on the GPS alone and find it reasonably interesting getting
an overview from a nice map.

I don't bother with maps at all anymore even tho I still have them.

Much prefer to use google earth etc now.

I also still buy the 'new' AA big road atlas's you see on sale
in petrol stations for 99p or so (and often one for each car,
'just in case') but I've also stuck quite a few in recycling a
year later completely un-referenced. ;-(

I havent bothered for decades now.

However, the biggest plus for the GPS by far is the amount of
rows it saved between me and her when it came to navigating.

Yeah, that's what a mate of mine says too,
by far the best way to avoid arguments.

I'm driving because I can generally 'get on with it', prefer to drive
than be driven and am happy to drive under all conditions.

So, we get a phone call mid journey, requesting we divert somewhere
we don't know. So, I'd sling the map in her lap and that's when I could
sense the tension changing. 'She's not wearing the right glasses for
map-reading' ... 'it makes her feel sick' ... 'can't you stop and do it'
...
and doesn't seem to want to swap roles so that I can do the map
reading because 'it's dark'. ;-(

When I got the GPS she would remind *me* to bring it with us
because she knew just how much easier it made both our lives. ;-)

With GPS's as cheap, capable and user friendly as they are now
I really don't know why anyone (who ever drives further than Tescos
and back) doesn't have one ... unless they are Luddites that is. ;-)

I do know one who not only doesn't have a gps, doesn't even have
a mobile phone either and does do quite a bit of long distance stuff.
He doesn't use maps either, does it all in his head and by word of mouth.

When his car key broke he had to use mine to ring his
wife to get her to come into town with the spare car key.
And I had to dial the number too, he couldn't even do that.

(And having one on a phone or built into the car also counts).