"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
...
Huge wrote:
On 2015-01-23, Dave Liquorice wrote:

I keep wandering off to look but I've yet to be won over by any linux
desktop compared to Presentation Manager on OS/2. They have the
annoying restrictions that the Windows desktop has. Dialogue open?
You can only move or switch to a limited set of windows.

Nope. That's one of the reasons I loathe Windows. Click "File - Open",
Windows opens a file chooser, damn, I've forgotten where the file is, now
I have to close the ****ing chooser to go and remind myself where the
file
is. Any system that seizes the inpput focus is broken.

None of the Linuxen I've used do that..

None of the Windowses I've used does that either. The Open dialog usually
disables its parent (which is not where I'd be looking to remind myself)
but IME it doesn't disable anything else.

I try to avoid File-Open anyway, for convenience.

Yeah, I do too, I mostly used the pinned entries in the right mouse
click list on the taskbar icon with Win7 with frequently used files.

I locate the file using Explorer or equivalent

I do that with the less frequently used stuff.

and drag it onto the app's window.

I just click on it and right mouse click on it when
I want to do use a less frequently used app for that file.

On 24/01/2015 18:40, Clive George wrote:
On 24/01/2015 11:31, Huge wrote:
On 2015-01-23, Dave Liquorice wrote:

I keep wandering off to look but I've yet to be won over by any linux
desktop compared to Presentation Manager on OS/2. They have the
annoying restrictions that the Windows desktop has. Dialogue open?
You can only move or switch to a limited set of windows.

Nope. That's one of the reasons I loathe Windows. Click "File - Open",
Windows opens a file chooser, damn, I've forgotten where the file is, now
I have to close the ****ing chooser to go and remind myself where the
file
is. Any system that seizes the inpput focus is broken.

I don't get that. I just tried it. File - Open, file chooser open. Now
go and play in any one of the many other programs I've also got open, no
problem at all.

OTOH I don't run windows maximised - is that the difference?


If you go into some other program and start deleting or renaming files
in the same directory the chooser is updated too.
I don't know why the admin staff have modified it to stop it working for
some posters.

"Clive George" wrote in message
news
On 24/01/2015 11:31, Huge wrote:
On 2015-01-23, Dave Liquorice wrote:

I keep wandering off to look but I've yet to be won over by any linux
desktop compared to Presentation Manager on OS/2. They have the
annoying restrictions that the Windows desktop has. Dialogue open?
You can only move or switch to a limited set of windows.

Nope. That's one of the reasons I loathe Windows. Click "File - Open",
Windows opens a file chooser, damn, I've forgotten where the file is, now
I have to close the ****ing chooser to go and remind myself where the
file
is. Any system that seizes the inpput focus is broken.

I don't get that. I just tried it. File - Open, file chooser open. Now go
and play in any one of the many other programs I've also got open, no
problem at all.

OTOH I don't run windows maximised - is that the difference?

No, I do run many windows maximised and can switch away
from the window which has the file chooser open and do
anything I like and come back to it and use it to go to the
location I need to go to. But it's usually better to just close
the file chooser and go and find the file using what you
usually do to find a file and once you have found it just
indicate that you want to open it in the app in the way
you usually do that rather than switch back to the still
open file chooser and navigate to where you found it.

"Dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 24/01/2015 17:53, Rod Speed wrote:


"Dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 24/01/2015 05:36, Rod Speed wrote:


They basically don't want to bother with
working out how to use Win7 or 8 when they
know how to do what they want to do on XP.

In some respects they are right too, networking
is a lot simpler with XP than Win7 or 8.

Its different it certainly isn't harder to do in win 8

It is quite a bit harder to be selective about what you
allow others to be able to see files wise. As we can
see with that is involved with allowing renters to use
you wifi but not have any access to your personal files.

Windows has had ACLs for decades, you can control who can access files
with ease even on the local machine.

But the point is that with XP you can ignore those
completely if you don’t need to specify that.

nd each other ask if you want to join the existing home network and
copy settings if you do, they can find nas drives and setup file
history easily, printers just work for most of them. The firewall
works better. Wireless networking is better in 8.1.

Sure, but the basics are harder to do.

The basics it does with a couple of clicks and a password.

You don’t need to do even that with XP.

On 24/01/15 17:31, Dennis@home wrote:

No, you can unlink it, it isn't deleted until you close the in use app
and then it goes.

Well, yes...

On 24 Jan 2015 17:24:42 GMT, Huge wrote:

That's one of the reasons I loathe Windows. Click "File - Open",
Windows opens a file chooser, damn, I've forgotten where the file
is,
now I have to close the ****ing chooser to go and remind myself
where
the file is. Any system that seizes the inpput focus is broken.

None of the Linuxen I've used do that..

None of the Windowses I've used does that either.

All of the ones I've used (XP & Win7) work that way.

Even worse, it won't allow me to move the chooser window so I can't even
get it out of the way.

Well I find you can move it(*) but if you can't move it enough to
uncover the information you want to see in another window, from
another program, you can't shift that other window out from under the
file open dialogue or the parent window of the dialogue.

I think windows users are just conditioned to working around the
limitations of the windows way rather than the simple and obvious
"any window can have focus at any time".

(*) But it doesn't remember where you moved it to if you are forced
to close and reopen it.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 24/01/2015 20:58, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On 24 Jan 2015 17:24:42 GMT, Huge wrote:

That's one of the reasons I loathe Windows. Click "File - Open",
Windows opens a file chooser, damn, I've forgotten where the file
is,
now I have to close the ****ing chooser to go and remind myself
where
the file is. Any system that seizes the inpput focus is broken.

None of the Linuxen I've used do that..

None of the Windowses I've used does that either.

All of the ones I've used (XP & Win7) work that way.

Even worse, it won't allow me to move the chooser window so I can't even
get it out of the way.

Well I find you can move it(*) but if you can't move it enough to
uncover the information you want to see in another window, from
another program, you can't shift that other window out from under the
file open dialogue or the parent window of the dialogue.

I think windows users are just conditioned to working around the
limitations of the windows way rather than the simple and obvious
"any window can have focus at any time".

I think you will find most windows users don't have that problem in the
first place.


(*) But it doesn't remember where you moved it to if you are forced
to close and reopen it.


Some older apps require you to hold down another key while dragging to
indicate the change is to be remembered. Its not a function of old
windows like XP.

Huge wrote:

Tim Watts wrote:

Has 4 USB ports, 2 NICs,

Hmmm. I need 3 NICs. Any way to do that?

Jetway certainly do 4-port ethernet daughter cards for some of their
other small form motherboards, used them in firewalls.

Alternatively

http://uk.startech.com/Networking-IO/~USB32000SPT

cheaper at Amazon et al.

Huge wrote:
On 2015-01-24, Mike Barnes wrote:
Huge wrote:
On 2015-01-23, Dave Liquorice wrote:

I keep wandering off to look but I've yet to be won over by any linux
desktop compared to Presentation Manager on OS/2. They have the
annoying restrictions that the Windows desktop has. Dialogue open?
You can only move or switch to a limited set of windows.

Nope. That's one of the reasons I loathe Windows. Click "File - Open",
Windows opens a file chooser, damn, I've forgotten where the file is, now
I have to close the ****ing chooser to go and remind myself where the file
is. Any system that seizes the inpput focus is broken.

None of the Linuxen I've used do that..

None of the Windowses I've used does that either.

All of the ones I've used (XP & Win7) work that way.

Even worse, it won't allow me to move the chooser window so I can't even
get it out of the way.

I'm puzzled by the differences between our experiences and I imagine
there's a misunderstanding somewhere.

I open Firefox then I open Word and do "File: Open". I can move the Open
dialog around anywhere I like. I can bring Firefox to the front. The
only thing I can't do, until I close the Open dialog, is to move or
resize the original Word window. Are things different on your system?

BTW I'm on Windows 7 but IIRC Windows 3.0 and subsequent were no
different in this respect.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

In message , Huge
writes
On 2015-01-23, Dave Liquorice wrote:

I keep wandering off to look but I've yet to be won over by any linux
desktop compared to Presentation Manager on OS/2. They have the
annoying restrictions that the Windows desktop has. Dialogue open?
You can only move or switch to a limited set of windows.

Nope. That's one of the reasons I loathe Windows. Click "File - Open",
Windows opens a file chooser, damn, I've forgotten where the file is, now
I have to close the ****ing chooser to go and remind myself where the file
is. Any system that seizes the inpput focus is broken.


Maybe i'm misunderstanding you, but I don't seem what you mean.

Here on this system (Win 7) I can click fileopen in some program, then
leave that open, whilst I go an check in Windows Explorer where
something is, then go back to the file open dialogue to open the file.
--
Chris French

In message , Chris French
writes
In message , Huge
writes
On 2015-01-23, Dave Liquorice wrote:

I keep wandering off to look but I've yet to be won over by any linux
desktop compared to Presentation Manager on OS/2. They have the
annoying restrictions that the Windows desktop has. Dialogue open?
You can only move or switch to a limited set of windows.

Nope. That's one of the reasons I loathe Windows. Click "File - Open",
Windows opens a file chooser, damn, I've forgotten where the file is, now
I have to close the ****ing chooser to go and remind myself where the file
is. Any system that seizes the inpput focus is broken.


Maybe i'm misunderstanding you, but I don't seem what you mean.


Though I do agree that the 'file is already open' behaviour of Windows
in annoying at times
--
Chris French

Chris French wrote:
In message , Chris French
writes
In message , Huge
writes
On 2015-01-23, Dave Liquorice wrote:

I keep wandering off to look but I've yet to be won over by any linux
desktop compared to Presentation Manager on OS/2. They have the
annoying restrictions that the Windows desktop has. Dialogue open?
You can only move or switch to a limited set of windows.

Nope. That's one of the reasons I loathe Windows. Click "File - Open",
Windows opens a file chooser, damn, I've forgotten where the file is, now
I have to close the ****ing chooser to go and remind myself where the file
is. Any system that seizes the inpput focus is broken.


Maybe i'm misunderstanding you, but I don't seem what you mean.


Though I do agree that the 'file is already open' behaviour of Windows
in annoying at times

I'm not sure we're talking about exactly the same problem but ISTM that
Windows is negligent in not telling me which program(s) a file is locked
by, or a removable drive is allegedly "in use" by. There seems to be
strong tradition in Microsoft's error messages of omitting the
information that the user actually wants to know. (I think the tradition
started with "Bad command or file name".)

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

On 25/01/2015 19:17, Chris French wrote:

Though I do agree that the 'file is already open' behaviour of Windows
in annoying at times

Oh yes. And the lack of a nice "lsof". Dear windows, I don't care if the
cwd for an app is that directory, I want you to get on and delete it.

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
...
Chris French wrote:
In message , Chris French
writes
In message , Huge
writes
On 2015-01-23, Dave Liquorice wrote:

I keep wandering off to look but I've yet to be won over by any linux
desktop compared to Presentation Manager on OS/2. They have the
annoying restrictions that the Windows desktop has. Dialogue open?
You can only move or switch to a limited set of windows.

Nope. That's one of the reasons I loathe Windows. Click "File - Open",
Windows opens a file chooser, damn, I've forgotten where the file is,
now
I have to close the ****ing chooser to go and remind myself where the
file
is. Any system that seizes the inpput focus is broken.


Maybe i'm misunderstanding you, but I don't seem what you mean.


Though I do agree that the 'file is already open' behaviour of Windows
in annoying at times

I'm not sure we're talking about exactly the same problem

Yes, its a completely different problem/quirk etc.

but ISTM that Windows is negligent in not telling me which program(s) a
file is locked by, or a removable drive is allegedly "in use" by.

Yes, particularly when its so easy for it to work out what is using it.

There seems to be strong tradition in Microsoft's error messages of
omitting the information that the user actually wants to know.

That's overstating it.

(I think the tradition started with "Bad command or file name".)

That is more excusable. If it actually is a bad command, its harder
to work out what the user did intend the command to be.

On Sun, 25 Jan 2015 19:42:19 +0000, Mike Barnes wrote:

There seems to be strong tradition in Microsoft's error messages of
omitting the information that the user actually wants to know. (I think
the tradition started with "Bad command or file name".)

Agreed. "An error has occured. A log file has been created" OWTHE.
I don't think I have ever seen a useful error message in windows.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 25 Jan 2015 12:47:56 +0000, Mike Barnes wrote:

I open Firefox then I open Word and do "File: Open". I can move the Open
dialog around anywhere I like. I can bring Firefox to the front. The
only thing I can't do, until I close the Open dialog, is to move or
resize the original Word window.

That's exactly the problem. Windows doesn't let you move the Word
parent window, give me a good reason why you can't. Other desktop
enviroments can manage it so there is nor programming or technical
reason why it can't be done. Ergo windows is broke.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sat, 24 Jan 2015 21:56:05 +0000, Dennis@home wrote:

I think windows users are just conditioned to working around the
limitations of the windows way rather than the simple and obvious
"any window can have focus at any time".

I think you will find most windows users don't have that problem in the
first place.

That just shows how strong the windows conditioning is.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jan 2015 12:47:56 +0000, Mike Barnes wrote:

I open Firefox then I open Word and do "File: Open". I can move the Open
dialog around anywhere I like. I can bring Firefox to the front. The
only thing I can't do, until I close the Open dialog, is to move or
resize the original Word window.

That's exactly the problem. Windows doesn't let you move the Word
parent window, give me a good reason why you can't. Other desktop
enviroments can manage it so there is nor programming or technical
reason why it can't be done. Ergo windows is broke.

You are right but you miss my point which is that that's *much* less
serious than the alleged problem that we were told about earlier. It's
easy to find fault with Windows, so I don't know why people resort to
transparent exaggeration in order to make their case.

Speaking for myself I've never found the slightest problem with cases
like that described above, because it's trivially easy to move or resize
the dialog to see what's underneath it, not that I'd ever want to do
that with an Open dialog. What is annoying (and this the only such
problem I've had in over a quarter-century of Windows use) is in Quicken
where I open dialog A from the main window, then dialog B from dialog A,
and find that I can't move dialog A to see what's underneath it in the
main window.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

On 25/01/2015 21:45, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jan 2015 21:56:05 +0000, Dennis@home wrote:

I think windows users are just conditioned to working around the
limitations of the windows way rather than the simple and obvious
"any window can have focus at any time".

I think you will find most windows users don't have that problem in the
first place.

That just shows how strong the windows conditioning is.


Its the opposite, some of us don't believe all the cr@p that some make
up. Nearly all of it is based on some ones inability to learn and as
this thread has already shown by the fact the alleged problems don't
actually exist.
Now if you would like to detail some real problems feel free.

In message o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes
On Sun, 25 Jan 2015 12:47:56 +0000, Mike Barnes wrote:

I open Firefox then I open Word and do "File: Open". I can move the Open
dialog around anywhere I like. I can bring Firefox to the front. The
only thing I can't do, until I close the Open dialog, is to move or
resize the original Word window.

That's exactly the problem.

I'm not sure it was the problem Huge was describing.

Windows doesn't let you move the Word
parent window, give me a good reason why you can't. Other desktop
enviroments can manage it so there is nor programming or technical
reason why it can't be done. Ergo windows is broke.

Not really, Dis-regarding whether or not I should be able too. I'm not
sure that I would ever want to really. If I got the dialogue open, it's
cos I'm doing something with it, rather than the main Word window. If I
want to view a different programs window I can.

In fact thinking about it, I don't move windows about much anyway




--
Chris French

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Sun, 25 Jan 2015 19:42:19 +0000, Mike Barnes wrote:

There seems to be strong tradition in Microsoft's error messages of
omitting the information that the user actually wants to know. (I think
the tradition started with "Bad command or file name".)

Agreed. "An error has occured. A log file has been created" OWTHE.
I don't think I have ever seen a useful error message in windows.

I have, plenty of times. And plenty of times there is a decent error
number that you can use to check what is the common causes of
that with on the net as well.

On 25/01/2015 23:28, Tim Streater wrote:

Now if you would like to detail some real problems feel free.

I did. About renaming files that happen to be open in another app. Or
moving them.



So why does it not do what you said on my machine?

Dennis@home wrote
Tim Streater wrote

Now if you would like to detail some real problems feel free.

I did. About renaming files that happen to be open in another app. Or
moving them.

So why does it not do what you said on my machine?

Bet it does and you just dont understand what he meant.

Tim Streater wrote:
I have a file on
the desktop, I open it in Notepad and Notepad++

I then rename it. Notepad seems entirely unaware of this. Meanwhile, at
least Notepad++ thinks that the original file "no longer exists". Well
in fact it does, it just has another name.

This is more interesting. One could equally argue that the original file
does not exist, but another file with the same content but a different
name does exist. Both statements could be considered true, depending on
how you think of things. You clearly think differently from Notepad++,
but that doesn't make Notepad++ wrong.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Mike Barnes
wrote:

Tim Streater wrote:
I have a file on
the desktop, I open it in Notepad and Notepad++

I then rename it. Notepad seems entirely unaware of this. Meanwhile, at
least Notepad++ thinks that the original file "no longer exists". Well
in fact it does, it just has another name.

This is more interesting. One could equally argue that the original file
does not exist, but another file with the same content but a different
name does exist. Both statements could be considered true, depending on
how you think of things. You clearly think differently from Notepad++,
but that doesn't make Notepad++ wrong.

Why would I do the sequence above other than because I decided that the
file's name was no linger appropriate.

I think you missed my point, which was about one's perception of the
filesystem rather than about the computer trying to assess your motives.

But if you really want a "why", I might want to make a backup copy of
the original before saving my changes. Renaming is quicker than copying
and although the difference is probably insignificant for a text file on
a fast storage medium, it might not be for a huge video file on a
camera's internal memory card. There's often more than one way of
looking at things and it's unwise to assume that your way is the One
True Way.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

In article o.uk, Dave
Liquorice scribeth thus
On Sun, 25 Jan 2015 12:47:56 +0000, Mike Barnes wrote:

I open Firefox then I open Word and do "File: Open". I can move the Open
dialog around anywhere I like. I can bring Firefox to the front. The
only thing I can't do, until I close the Open dialog, is to move or
resize the original Word window.


Just tried that and it does work. Using WIN 7 pro..

Mind you I don't use Microsoft office we used Kingston office which is
every bit as good and free in some versions..

That's exactly the problem. Windows doesn't let you move the Word
parent window, give me a good reason why you can't. Other desktop
enviroments can manage it so there is nor programming or technical
reason why it can't be done. Ergo windows is broke.


--
Tony Sayer

In article , Huge
scribeth thus
On 2015-01-24, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Huge
scribeth thus
On 2015-01-23, Dave Liquorice wrote:

I keep wandering off to look but I've yet to be won over by any linux
desktop compared to Presentation Manager on OS/2. They have the
annoying restrictions that the Windows desktop has. Dialogue open?
You can only move or switch to a limited set of windows.

Nope. That's one of the reasons I loathe Windows. Click "File - Open",
Windows opens a file chooser, damn, I've forgotten where the file is, now
I have to close the ****ing chooser to go and remind myself where the file
is. Any system that seizes the inpput focus is broken.

Sorry to sound dense

Not at all.

but can you go thru that in a little more detail as
to what your doing please?.

Where is this file chooser that you speak of?. Did you mean a search
function?.

No. When you select "File - Open" in any Windows app, the thing that
pops up and allows you to select which file you wish to open is called
a "chooser". If what you're choosing is a file, it's called a "file
chooser".



Yes I see what you mean now usually here its sufficient to just click on
the file and it opens in the default programme which for me is fine tho
if I right click it I can open some files in other programmes if I want
to.

But I know where the file is, it hasn't moved from where it started so
what is the real problem please?.
--
Tony Sayer

Huge wrote:
On 2015-01-24, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Huge
scribeth thus
On 2015-01-23, Dave Liquorice wrote:

I keep wandering off to look but I've yet to be won over by any linux
desktop compared to Presentation Manager on OS/2. They have the
annoying restrictions that the Windows desktop has. Dialogue open?
You can only move or switch to a limited set of windows.

Nope. That's one of the reasons I loathe Windows. Click "File - Open",
Windows opens a file chooser, damn, I've forgotten where the file is, now
I have to close the ****ing chooser to go and remind myself where the file
is. Any system that seizes the inpput focus is broken.

Sorry to sound dense

Not at all.

but can you go thru that in a little more detail as
to what your doing please?.

Where is this file chooser that you speak of?. Did you mean a search
function?.

No. When you select "File - Open" in any Windows app, the thing that
pops up and allows you to select which file you wish to open is called
a "chooser". If what you're choosing is a file, it's called a "file
chooser".

That's the first time I've heard the Windows Open dialog called a
"chooser". Isn't that a Mac term? On Windows it's actually an
incarnation of Windows Explorer.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

On 26/01/15 15:33, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Huge
wrote:

On 2015-01-24, Tim Streater wrote:

I see that file browser windows in Win7 (and in fact in Linus Mint)
have a little "refresh" icon for the user to click because they are
unable to be told that their view of a folder is now out of date.

In the Linux case, not strictly true. You *can* manually refresh the
view, if you want to, but the Linux kernel has the ability to inform
programs that the filesystem has changed out from under them, and Debian,
Ubuntu & Mint file browsers make use of that. I rarely, if ever, click
the button.

OK thanks - I'll watch out for that next time I fire up the Mint VM.

Theres a couple of things that confuse Mints file manager thing. One is
NFS. If you hard mount an NFS share and it goes away, so too will your
computer as the auto=refresh simply hangs.


Editing networked drives from another machine also screws up its
understanding. It doesn't know the file has changed then.

finally its a bit ugly if you use ssh to mount a remote file system
using sshfs.

Once again changes made even by itself are not always guaranteed to show
up. But there is always the refresh button.


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On 26/01/2015 13:02, Mike Barnes wrote:
Tim Streater wrote:
I have a file on
the desktop, I open it in Notepad and Notepad++

I then rename it. Notepad seems entirely unaware of this. Meanwhile, at
least Notepad++ thinks that the original file "no longer exists". Well
in fact it does, it just has another name.

This is more interesting. One could equally argue that the original file
does not exist, but another file with the same content but a different
name does exist. Both statements could be considered true, depending on
how you think of things. You clearly think differently from Notepad++,
but that doesn't make Notepad++ wrong.


Even notepad will just save it under the original name and leave the
renamed file as it was when it was renamed. Just like most people would
expect.
If you wanted to rename it you would just save as the new name and
delete the old one if you wanted to.
Windows is not written for programmers unlike the *ever so popular* linux.

On 26/01/2015 16:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/01/15 15:33, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Huge
wrote:

On 2015-01-24, Tim Streater wrote:

I see that file browser windows in Win7 (and in fact in Linus Mint)
have a little "refresh" icon for the user to click because they are
unable to be told that their view of a folder is now out of date.

In the Linux case, not strictly true. You *can* manually refresh the
view, if you want to, but the Linux kernel has the ability to inform
programs that the filesystem has changed out from under them, and
Debian,
Ubuntu & Mint file browsers make use of that. I rarely, if ever, click
the button.

OK thanks - I'll watch out for that next time I fire up the Mint VM.

Theres a couple of things that confuse Mints file manager thing. One is
NFS. If you hard mount an NFS share and it goes away, so too will your
computer as the auto=refresh simply hangs.

Its not really surprising as NFS is stateless.
Its why apps use lock files so they think they know who owns the file.
Shame it doesn't work very well.

There was a proper system RFS IIRC.

On 26/01/2015 16:51, Tim Streater wrote:
In article om,
"Dennis@home" wrote:

On 26/01/2015 13:02, Mike Barnes wrote:
Tim Streater wrote:
I have a file on
the desktop, I open it in Notepad and Notepad++

I then rename it. Notepad seems entirely unaware of this. Meanwhile, at
least Notepad++ thinks that the original file "no longer exists". Well
in fact it does, it just has another name.

This is more interesting. One could equally argue that the original file
does not exist, but another file with the same content but a different
name does exist. Both statements could be considered true, depending on
how you think of things. You clearly think differently from Notepad++,
but that doesn't make Notepad++ wrong.


Even notepad will just save it under the original name and leave the
renamed file as it was when it was renamed. Just like most people
would expect.
If you wanted to rename it you would just save as the new name and
delete the old one if you wanted to.
Windows is not written for programmers unlike the *ever so popular*
linux.

And Publisher?


I don't have publisher in any version.

On 26/01/2015 20:50, Tim Streater wrote:
In article om,
"Dennis@home" wrote:

On 26/01/2015 16:51, Tim Streater wrote:
In article om,
"Dennis@home" wrote:

On 26/01/2015 13:02, Mike Barnes wrote:
Tim Streater wrote:
I have a file on
the desktop, I open it in Notepad and Notepad++

I then rename it. Notepad seems entirely unaware of this.
Meanwhile, at
least Notepad++ thinks that the original file "no longer exists".
Well
in fact it does, it just has another name.

This is more interesting. One could equally argue that the original
file
does not exist, but another file with the same content but a different
name does exist. Both statements could be considered true,
depending on
how you think of things. You clearly think differently from Notepad++,
but that doesn't make Notepad++ wrong.


Even notepad will just save it under the original name and leave the
renamed file as it was when it was renamed. Just like most people
would expect.
If you wanted to rename it you would just save as the new name and
delete the old one if you wanted to.
Windows is not written for programmers unlike the *ever so popular*
linux.

And Publisher?

I don't have publisher in any version.

Try with Word or Excel for the same effect then. Come on, slowcoach.
You asked for an example and I gave you one. Don't try to weasel out of
it now.


I still don't see the problem, it just tells you to close the document
and rename it.

If you do it the linux way then as its a multiuser system it don't half
confuse people when someone renames the document and it disappears when
they close it.

On 23/01/2015 16:01, Bod wrote:
Hmm! it would be an unusual person who paid hundreds for a brand new
latest Windows computer, who would then put a prehistoric system on it.

It would be a less unusual person who installed an OS from USB that
needed 3rd party drivers to handle the shiny new USB chips. See if you
can guess which OS this might be.

Andy

Tim Streater wrote:
In article . com,
"Dennis@home" wrote:

On 26/01/2015 20:50, Tim Streater wrote:
In article om,
"Dennis@home" wrote:

On 26/01/2015 16:51, Tim Streater wrote:
In article om,
"Dennis@home" wrote:

On 26/01/2015 13:02, Mike Barnes wrote:
Tim Streater wrote:
I have a file on
the desktop, I open it in Notepad and Notepad++

I then rename it. Notepad seems entirely unaware of this.
Meanwhile, at
least Notepad++ thinks that the original file "no longer exists".
Well
in fact it does, it just has another name.

This is more interesting. One could equally argue that the original
file
does not exist, but another file with the same content but a different
name does exist. Both statements could be considered true,
depending on
how you think of things. You clearly think differently from Notepad++,
but that doesn't make Notepad++ wrong.


Even notepad will just save it under the original name and leave the
renamed file as it was when it was renamed. Just like most people
would expect.
If you wanted to rename it you would just save as the new name and
delete the old one if you wanted to.
Windows is not written for programmers unlike the *ever so popular*
linux.

And Publisher?

I don't have publisher in any version.

Try with Word or Excel for the same effect then. Come on, slowcoach.
You asked for an example and I gave you one. Don't try to weasel out of
it now.

I still don't see the problem, it just tells you to close the document
and rename it.

Thass right, I have to close the doc, rename it, and then open it
again. What kind of ****ty UI is that, when I could just rename it and
the app knows that this has happened, and carries right on.

Obviously Windows is not written for *users*, if this is the kind of
convoluted workaround that's considered normal by you and others of
your ilk.

Do calm down, there's a good chap. Probably 99% of Windows users have
never experienced the problem you're getting so worked up about and
wouldn't give a damn if you explained it to them.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

Huge wrote:
On 2015-01-26, Mike Barnes wrote:
Huge wrote:

[24 lines snipped]

No. When you select "File - Open" in any Windows app, the thing that
pops up and allows you to select which file you wish to open is called
a "chooser". If what you're choosing is a file, it's called a "file
chooser".

That's the first time I've heard the Windows Open dialog called a
"chooser". Isn't that a Mac term?

I doubt it. I'm no great fan of Macs, either, although I have one. AFAIK,
it's a generic UI term.

I really don't think so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chooser
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chooser_%28Mac_OS%29

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2015-01-26, Mike Barnes wrote:
Huge wrote:

[24 lines snipped]

No. When you select "File - Open" in any Windows app, the thing that
pops up and allows you to select which file you wish to open is called
a "chooser". If what you're choosing is a file, it's called a "file
chooser".

That's the first time I've heard the Windows Open dialog called a
"chooser". Isn't that a Mac term?

I doubt it. I'm no great fan of Macs, either, although I have one. AFAIK,
it's a generic UI term.

No its not. Its generally called a dialog box.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialog_box
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chooser_(Mac_OS)

On 26/01/2015 23:16, Tim Streater wrote:

I'm sure they have, they've just never noticed it because of what
they're used to. For them it's just "how computers work". It doesn't
occur to them that there's no need for it, so they don't see a problem.


It isn't a problem, they just save as and delete the old one.
Its not a problem for 99.99999% of people only linux users and only
0.0001% of them.

Just how often do you want to rename a file you are working on and not
save the old one anyway?

On 26/01/2015 21:57, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 23/01/2015 16:01, Bod wrote:
Hmm! it would be an unusual person who paid hundreds for a brand new
latest Windows computer, who would then put a prehistoric system on it.

It would be a less unusual person who installed an OS from USB that
needed 3rd party drivers to handle the shiny new USB chips. See if you
can guess which OS this might be.

Andy

It would have to be someone that disabled legacy support in the BIOS so
it wouldn't work.

In message , Tim Streater
writes
In article , Mike Barnes
wrote:

Tim Streater wrote:
In article . com,
"Dennis@home" wrote:

On 26/01/2015 20:50, Tim Streater wrote:
In article om,
"Dennis@home" wrote:

On 26/01/2015 16:51, Tim Streater wrote:
In article om,
"Dennis@home" wrote:

On 26/01/2015 13:02, Mike Barnes wrote:
Tim Streater wrote:
I have a file on
the desktop, I open it in Notepad and Notepad++

I then rename it. Notepad seems entirely unaware of this.
Meanwhile, at
least Notepad++ thinks that the original file "no longer exists".
Well
in fact it does, it just has another name.

This is more interesting. One could equally argue that the original
file
does not exist, but another file with the same content but a different
name does exist. Both statements could be considered true,
depending on
how you think of things. You clearly think differently from Notepad++,
but that doesn't make Notepad++ wrong.


Even notepad will just save it under the original name and leave the
renamed file as it was when it was renamed. Just like most people
would expect.
If you wanted to rename it you would just save as the new name and
delete the old one if you wanted to.
Windows is not written for programmers unlike the *ever so popular*
linux.

And Publisher?

I don't have publisher in any version.

Try with Word or Excel for the same effect then. Come on, slowcoach.
You asked for an example and I gave you one. Don't try to weasel out of
it now.

I still don't see the problem, it just tells you to close the document
and rename it.

Thass right, I have to close the doc, rename it, and then open it
again. What kind of ****ty UI is that, when I could just rename it and
the app knows that this has happened, and carries right on.

Obviously Windows is not written for *users*, if this is the kind of
convoluted workaround that's considered normal by you and others of
your ilk.

Do calm down, there's a good chap. Probably 99% of Windows users have
never experienced the problem you're getting so worked up about and
wouldn't give a damn if you explained it to them.

I'm sure they have, they've just never noticed it because of what
they're used to. For them it's just "how computers work". It doesn't
occur to them that there's no need for it, so they don't see a problem.

I'm sure plenty of Windows have come across it, I have myself (though I
suspect most users haven't). But really, it's not a big deal, I'm not
really in the habit of renaming files open in other programs.

Bit annoying sometimes if it happens? sure, rather it didn't? sure, but
it's no big deal.
--
Chris French