My good friend asked me to repair his Dell laptop, an Inspiron 5150 that has a
well documented problem with mechanical stress cracking solder joints. The door
for the communication cards has little tabs that bump on a surface mount chip
causing the joints to crack and fail. I could see the cracks with a hand-held
microscope. I made a tip for my soldering station using a piece of 28 ga.
copper wire and fluxed the joints with a brush having a single strand of horse
hair and some melted "No-Corrode" paste. I didn't add any solder, just remelted
the existing. It took me over an hour to do the whole chip, it was like
circumcising gnats with an axe!

This job was beyond my limits but I got lucky and the laptop works. I want a
REAL boom microscope with a built in camera! I wonder how this job would be
done by real repair people?

Tom Gardner wrote:
My good friend asked me to repair his Dell laptop, an Inspiron 5150 that has a
well documented problem with mechanical stress cracking solder joints. The door
for the communication cards has little tabs that bump on a surface mount chip
causing the joints to crack and fail. I could see the cracks with a hand-held
microscope. I made a tip for my soldering station using a piece of 28 ga.
copper wire and fluxed the joints with a brush having a single strand of horse
hair and some melted "No-Corrode" paste. I didn't add any solder, just remelted
the existing. It took me over an hour to do the whole chip, it was like
circumcising gnats with an axe!

This job was beyond my limits but I got lucky and the laptop works. I want a
REAL boom microscope with a built in camera! I wonder how this job would be
done by real repair people?


I use a binocular microscope (not on a boom, alas), and a Weller with a
fine tip. If it's a really fine-pitch part you just melt a big glob of
solder on a bunch of pins then wick it off with solder wick, leaving a
whole bunch of nice joints.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...


This job was beyond my limits but I got lucky and the laptop works. I
want a REAL boom microscope with a built in camera! I wonder how this job
would be done by real repair people?

I think you will find that "real" repair people use hot air to reflow
solder- do a search for "SMT rework station" to get an idea, for example
http://www.denondic.co.jp/en/products/sd3000.html
http://www.howardelectronics.com/
http://tmt.stores.yahoo.net/reworkstations.html
http://atco-us.com/rework707FL.html
http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/...k_Station.html


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Tom Gardner wrote:
My good friend asked me to repair his Dell laptop, an Inspiron 5150 that has a
well documented problem with mechanical stress cracking solder joints. The door
for the communication cards has little tabs that bump on a surface mount chip
causing the joints to crack and fail. I could see the cracks with a hand-held
microscope. I made a tip for my soldering station using a piece of 28 ga.
copper wire and fluxed the joints with a brush having a single strand of horse
hair and some melted "No-Corrode" paste. I didn't add any solder, just remelted
the existing. It took me over an hour to do the whole chip, it was like
circumcising gnats with an axe!

This job was beyond my limits but I got lucky and the laptop works. I want a
REAL boom microscope with a built in camera! I wonder how this job would be
done by real repair people?


Carefully. If you are referring to the brand "No Corrode" soldering
paste, it is corrosive. It was developed for the plumbing trade a
century ago. The definition of no corrode for plumbers is different
that for electronics. “No Corrode” brand flux can not be used electronics.

Been there done that. Talked to the “No Corrode” flux people.

On Jun 13, 12:33*am, "William Noble" wrote:
"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
This job was beyond my limits but I got lucky and the laptop works. *I
want a REAL boom microscope with a built in camera! *I wonder how this job
would be done by real repair people?
I think you will find that "real" repair people use hot air to reflow
solder

A hot-air rework station is nice when you have a company to buy you
one, but a good temperature-controlled iron with a fine-pointed
conical tip works very well. I prefer a tip with a small flat and
slightly rounded end to one with a needle sharp point, even for 0402
(1mm x 0.5mm) chip resistors. Keeping it well tinned is very
important, as is setting it to the lowest temperature you can. I like
0.015" lead solder with RMA flux for the finest work unless the job
requires RoHS.

Microscopes are tiring to use for long. The better setup is an LCD
screen displaying the camera image. The cameras and microscopes have a
long working length to leave room for the iron, and it's a good idea
to use a fan to keep flux smoke off the lens. You need some practice
to be able to judge the vertical distance from iron tip to board with
them.

I can do about as well with a headband magnifier of 8" or 14" focal
length for soldering and a more powerful loupe to check for shorts.

Jim Wilkins

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
Tom Gardner wrote:
My good friend asked me to repair his Dell laptop, an Inspiron 5150 that has
a well documented problem with mechanical stress cracking solder joints. The
door for the communication cards has little tabs that bump on a surface mount
chip causing the joints to crack and fail. I could see the cracks with a
hand-held microscope. I made a tip for my soldering station using a piece of
28 ga. copper wire and fluxed the joints with a brush having a single strand
of horse hair and some melted "No-Corrode" paste. I didn't add any solder,
just remelted the existing. It took me over an hour to do the whole chip, it
was like circumcising gnats with an axe!

This job was beyond my limits but I got lucky and the laptop works. I want a
REAL boom microscope with a built in camera! I wonder how this job would be
done by real repair people?
I use a binocular microscope (not on a boom, alas), and a Weller with a fine
tip. If it's a really fine-pitch part you just melt a big glob of solder on a
bunch of pins then wick it off with solder wick, leaving a whole bunch of nice
joints.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html


AaaHaa!

"GeorgeD" wrote in message
news:dvs4k.36013$lE3.12345@trnddc05...
Tom Gardner wrote:
My good friend asked me to repair his Dell laptop, an Inspiron 5150 that has
a well documented problem with mechanical stress cracking solder joints. The
door for the communication cards has little tabs that bump on a surface mount
chip causing the joints to crack and fail. I could see the cracks with a
hand-held microscope. I made a tip for my soldering station using a piece of
28 ga. copper wire and fluxed the joints with a brush having a single strand
of horse hair and some melted "No-Corrode" paste. I didn't add any solder,
just remelted the existing. It took me over an hour to do the whole chip, it
was like circumcising gnats with an axe!

This job was beyond my limits but I got lucky and the laptop works. I want a
REAL boom microscope with a built in camera! I wonder how this job would be
done by real repair people?
Carefully. If you are referring to the brand "No Corrode" soldering paste, it
is corrosive. It was developed for the plumbing trade a century ago. The
definition of no corrode for plumbers is different that for electronics. “No
Corrode” brand flux can not be used electronics.

Been there done that. Talked to the “No Corrode” flux people.

I did clean it up with Trichloroethylene 1-1-1, I hope that cleaned it good
enough. That paste works so well, what is the equivalent for electronics?

In article dvs4k.36013$lE3.12345@trnddc05, GeorgeD
wrote:

Tom Gardner wrote:
My good friend asked me to repair his Dell laptop, an Inspiron 5150 that
has a
well documented problem with mechanical stress cracking solder joints. The
door
for the communication cards has little tabs that bump on a surface mount
chip
causing the joints to crack and fail. I could see the cracks with a
hand-held
microscope. I made a tip for my soldering station using a piece of 28 ga.
copper wire and fluxed the joints with a brush having a single strand of
horse
hair and some melted "No-Corrode" paste. I didn't add any solder, just
remelted
the existing. It took me over an hour to do the whole chip, it was like
circumcising gnats with an axe!

This job was beyond my limits but I got lucky and the laptop works. I want
a
REAL boom microscope with a built in camera! I wonder how this job would
be
done by real repair people?


Carefully. If you are referring to the brand "No Corrode" soldering
paste, it is corrosive. It was developed for the plumbing trade a
century ago. The definition of no corrode for plumbers is different
that for electronics. ³No Corrode² brand flux can not be used electronics.

Been there done that. Talked to the ³No Corrode² flux people.

While it's true that NoCorrode is for plumbing, before I knew any better
I put a Heathkit VTVM kit together with plumbers solder and flux. I
still have that VTVM, and it worked the last time I used it, so the
corrosion wasn't too aggressive.

I also used plumbers flux to solder cadmium-plated steel alligator
clips. Again, I still have those test leads, 40 years later. The
problem is that the rubber insulation has gotten hard.

Joe Gwinn

On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:58:46 -0400, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:


"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
Tom Gardner wrote:
My good friend asked me to repair his Dell laptop, an Inspiron 5150 that has
a well documented problem with mechanical stress cracking solder joints. The
door for the communication cards has little tabs that bump on a surface mount
chip causing the joints to crack and fail. I could see the cracks with a
hand-held microscope. I made a tip for my soldering station using a piece of
28 ga. copper wire and fluxed the joints with a brush having a single strand
of horse hair and some melted "No-Corrode" paste. I didn't add any solder,
just remelted the existing. It took me over an hour to do the whole chip, it
was like circumcising gnats with an axe!

This job was beyond my limits but I got lucky and the laptop works. I want a
REAL boom microscope with a built in camera! I wonder how this job would be
done by real repair people?
I use a binocular microscope (not on a boom, alas), and a Weller with a fine
tip. If it's a really fine-pitch part you just melt a big glob of solder on a
bunch of pins then wick it off with solder wick, leaving a whole bunch of nice
joints.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html


AaaHaa!

Is a DEL computer of ANY kind worth repairing??
The "Del from Hell" every time I get involved with one
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 12:03:09 -0400, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:

I did clean it up with Trichloroethylene 1-1-1, I hope that cleaned it good
enough. That paste works so well, what is the equivalent for electronics?

We had some liquid flux like this stuff that we used with
the Hot-air machine (note the second item especially,
"LIQUID ROSIN SOLDER FLUX"):

http://www.action-electronics.com/kester.htm#Flux

With really dense connections like that you want a milder
flux that can be left in place or is really easy to clean
off.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 12:20:07 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article dvs4k.36013$lE3.12345@trnddc05, GeorgeD
wrote:

Tom Gardner wrote:
My good friend asked me to repair his Dell laptop, an Inspiron 5150 that
has a
well documented problem with mechanical stress cracking solder joints. The
door
for the communication cards has little tabs that bump on a surface mount
chip
causing the joints to crack and fail. I could see the cracks with a
hand-held
microscope. I made a tip for my soldering station using a piece of 28 ga.
copper wire and fluxed the joints with a brush having a single strand of
horse
hair and some melted "No-Corrode" paste. I didn't add any solder, just
remelted
the existing. It took me over an hour to do the whole chip, it was like
circumcising gnats with an axe!

This job was beyond my limits but I got lucky and the laptop works. I want
a
REAL boom microscope with a built in camera! I wonder how this job would
be
done by real repair people?


Carefully. If you are referring to the brand "No Corrode" soldering
paste, it is corrosive. It was developed for the plumbing trade a
century ago. The definition of no corrode for plumbers is different
that for electronics. ³No Corrode² brand flux can not be used electronics.

Been there done that. Talked to the ³No Corrode² flux people.

While it's true that NoCorrode is for plumbing, before I knew any better
I put a Heathkit VTVM kit together with plumbers solder and flux. I
still have that VTVM, and it worked the last time I used it, so the
corrosion wasn't too aggressive.

We had a customer use acid-core solder on a triac and it burned up as
a result (the flux residue is ionic, so it conducts electricity, which
led to carbon tracking, burning, sizzling, smoke etc.). Do not use
acid flux on anything electrical or electronic. You might get a
situation wherein your meter works fine on a dry day and reads wildly
off on a humid day.


I also used plumbers flux to solder cadmium-plated steel alligator
clips. Again, I still have those test leads, 40 years later. The
problem is that the rubber insulation has gotten hard.

Joe Gwinn
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Tom Gardner wrote:
"GeorgeD" wrote in message
news:dvs4k.36013$lE3.12345@trnddc05...
Tom Gardner wrote:
My good friend asked me to repair his Dell laptop, an Inspiron 5150 that has
a well documented problem with mechanical stress cracking solder joints. The
door for the communication cards has little tabs that bump on a surface mount
chip causing the joints to crack and fail. I could see the cracks with a
hand-held microscope. I made a tip for my soldering station using a piece of
28 ga. copper wire and fluxed the joints with a brush having a single strand
of horse hair and some melted "No-Corrode" paste. I didn't add any solder,
just remelted the existing. It took me over an hour to do the whole chip, it
was like circumcising gnats with an axe!

This job was beyond my limits but I got lucky and the laptop works. I want a
REAL boom microscope with a built in camera! I wonder how this job would be
done by real repair people?
Carefully. If you are referring to the brand "No Corrode" soldering paste, it
is corrosive. It was developed for the plumbing trade a century ago. The
definition of no corrode for plumbers is different that for electronics. “No
Corrode” brand flux can not be used electronics.

Been there done that. Talked to the “No Corrode” flux people.

I did clean it up with Trichloroethylene 1-1-1, I hope that cleaned it good
enough. That paste works so well, what is the equivalent for electronics?


Specifically, what it did was to coat some PC boards with NoCorode paste
(spare the flux, spoil the job). I soldered them up; they looked
beautiful; they didn’t work because of leakage between the traces and
everything everywhere. That is when I called the NoCorode Company and
was told never ever to do that again.

I think eventually I got it cleaned up.

I found some liquid rosin flux that worked well. Don’t remember what.

On 2008-06-13, Tom Gardner wrote:
My good friend asked me to repair his Dell laptop, an Inspiron 5150 that has a
well documented problem with mechanical stress cracking solder joints. The door
for the communication cards has little tabs that bump on a surface mount chip
causing the joints to crack and fail. I could see the cracks with a hand-held
microscope. I made a tip for my soldering station using a piece of 28 ga.
copper wire and fluxed the joints with a brush having a single strand of horse
hair and some melted "No-Corrode" paste. I didn't add any solder, just remelted
the existing. It took me over an hour to do the whole chip, it was like
circumcising gnats with an axe!

Hmm ... not sure about paste flux -- even "No-Corrode" I would
not really trust. I would use a liquid rosin/resin flux, probably by
Kester, for the task.

This job was beyond my limits but I got lucky and the laptop works. I want a
REAL boom microscope with a built in camera! I wonder how this job would be
done by real repair people?

Well ... there are soldering tools which work with a flow of hot
air for surface mount chips.

However, I have done a similar repair (two leads of a big
postage stamp chip with all four edges surface mount). I did have (and
use) a boom mounted stereo zoom microscope, but I did not have quite a
small enough soldering iron, so I also wrapped some solid copper wire
around the tip to make a micro-tip for the task. It was a board which
allowed doubling the SIMMs in a Solbourne S4000DX, and it worked well
for as long as I needed to use the computer. I also used some solder, a
very fine gauge solder which I picked up at a hamfest about the time the
threat of losing all lead-based solder came out.

The iron was an Edsyn "Loner" with regulated temperature at the
tip, and quite fine (but not fine enough) tips.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:16:05 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada quickly quoth:

Is a DEL computer of ANY kind worth repairing??
The "Del from Hell" every time I get involved with one

Get a Dell From Hell when you can't find a decent Packard Hell
computer. g Remember the old power supplies for Packards? They had
a sheetmetal "shaft" about 15" long protruding from them which
actuated an on/off button on the front panel. Cost to replace a $20
supply: $160 + s/h.

Whenever I went on a computer service call for a Packard Hell, I'd
always tell them up front that it would likely be cheaper to replace
the entire computer than fix one of those nasty things. Several people
refused, then called me back later after they'd been taken for a ride
by someone else. They all lamented not taking my advice.

Sest lavvy, wot?


--
Besides the noble art of getting things done, there is a nobler art of
leaving things undone. The wisdom of life consists in the elimination
of nonessentials. -- Lin Yutang

clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote in message
...

Is a DEL computer of ANY kind worth repairing??
The "Del from Hell" every time I get involved with one
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

I've had great luck with Dell laptops, I have a bunch that people gave me for
various reasons. Usually they needed a keyboard, more memory, bigger disks,
etc. People get new laptops and just give away the old one. They are easy and
cheap to get parts for on EBay. The "free" one I'm typing on is a 2.GHz
processor, 1gb of ram, 120gb HDD. I put in a $20 keyboard, and a $15 wifi card,
reformatted the drive and it has a OEM XPP sticker with key on the bottom!
They've all been sturdy, robust and easy to work on. You just have had bad
luck!

Tom Gardner wrote:
My good friend asked me to repair his Dell laptop, an Inspiron 5150 that has a
well documented problem with mechanical stress cracking solder joints. The door
for the communication cards has little tabs that bump on a surface mount chip
causing the joints to crack and fail. I could see the cracks with a hand-held
microscope. I made a tip for my soldering station using a piece of 28 ga.
copper wire and fluxed the joints with a brush having a single strand of horse
hair and some melted "No-Corrode" paste. I didn't add any solder, just remelted
the existing. It took me over an hour to do the whole chip, it was like
circumcising gnats with an axe!

This job was beyond my limits but I got lucky and the laptop works. I want a
REAL boom microscope with a built in camera! I wonder how this job would be
done by real repair people?



Weller temp controlled soldering station with micro-point tip on
a WMP or EC1302B micro-pencil iron. Stereo zoom microscope with
at least 2" working distance. GC Chemicals liquid flux applied
with a piece of wire-wrap wire if needed.

I do this sort of stuff all the time, using the above gear, to
make various electronic gear. I do as much mass-soldering in
the toaster oven as possible, but there is always a bad solder
joint to track down and touch up. I am now doing chips with
down to 0.4 mm lead pitch.

For my home shop, I got an Olympus microscope without the stand
from a broker quite cheaply. I made a small stand for it, but
eventually the "throat" became too small for the projects I was
doing, so I made up an adaptor and clamping block for some
MacPherson strut rods somebody gave me. The base is a totally
wrecked Buck adjustable chuck that came with my lathe. It is
actually BETTER than the professional stands!

Jon

clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote:

Is a DEL computer of ANY kind worth repairing??
The "Del from Hell" every time I get involved with one
I am running exclusively Dell computers, but only Optiplex
models - that is the commercial-grade line, not the home-grade.
There is apparently a big difference. They have been running
for years. I have to clean out the CPU heatsinks and fan every
year or so.

I bought all these on eBay before it turned into a nut house.
Not bad to get a decent utility computer for CNC control, web
server or whatever, for about $80 including shipping!

Jon

On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 00:55:31 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:

clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote:

Is a DEL computer of ANY kind worth repairing??
The "Del from Hell" every time I get involved with one
I am running exclusively Dell computers, but only Optiplex
models - that is the commercial-grade line, not the home-grade.
There is apparently a big difference. They have been running
for years. I have to clean out the CPU heatsinks and fan every
year or so.

I bought all these on eBay before it turned into a nut house.
Not bad to get a decent utility computer for CNC control, web
server or whatever, for about $80 including shipping!

Jon


Have five in the house at the moment. At work we don't repair them after the
three year on-site warranty expires. This results in them throwing out
machines that are newer than the ones on and under my desk (in the IT dept).
They are not designed for hanging lots of additional disks and cards onto but
are excellent compact machines (Optiplex GX1, 270, 280). Current desktop had a
2.4G Celeron/ 512MB when in use at a site that was closed. Now has 3G
hyperthreading P4/1GB. Boots from cold to login in 17 seconds :-)


Mark Rand
RTFM

Tom Gardner wrote:

I did clean it up with Trichloroethylene 1-1-1, I hope that cleaned it good
enough. That paste works so well, what is the equivalent for electronics?


Tom, I use Kester 1544 liquid rosin RMA flux. I can send you an
ounce bottle. I have about a pint left, so i have plenty. I apply it
with a needle from a syringe, and a 2 Oz squeeze bottle. It cleans up ok
with 91% Isopropyl alcohol.

I can't do any soldering right now, and unless my right eye heals, I
won't be needing it the flux anymore. I haven't been able to fully open
the right eye for about a month now. I couldn't open it at all for the
first three weeks, but it is finally able to open about 25%, and the VA
doctor said the double vision SHOULD go away in about three more
months. That is why I haven't been on the group for a while.

BTW, do you have that batch of used computers ready?

--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm

Sporadic E is the Earth's aluminum foil beanie for the 'global warming'
sheep.

William Noble wrote:

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...


This job was beyond my limits but I got lucky and the laptop works. I
want a REAL boom microscope with a built in camera! I wonder how this job
would be done by real repair people?

I think you will find that "real" repair people use hot air to reflow
solder- do a search for "SMT rework station" to get an idea, for example


William, I worked at Microdyne where we built and did factory level
repairs on high end telemetry equipment. We used hot air to remove
parts, but not to install new parts. We used a Heller reflow oven to
build new boards, but had less problems hand soldering parts in rework.
It didn't matter if they were two terminal, or 288 pins.



--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm

Sporadic E is the Earth's aluminum foil beanie for the 'global warming'
sheep.

Tim Wescott wrote:

Tom Gardner wrote:
My good friend asked me to repair his Dell laptop, an Inspiron 5150 that has a
well documented problem with mechanical stress cracking solder joints. The door
for the communication cards has little tabs that bump on a surface mount chip
causing the joints to crack and fail. I could see the cracks with a hand-held
microscope. I made a tip for my soldering station using a piece of 28 ga.
copper wire and fluxed the joints with a brush having a single strand of horse
hair and some melted "No-Corrode" paste. I didn't add any solder, just remelted
the existing. It took me over an hour to do the whole chip, it was like
circumcising gnats with an axe!

This job was beyond my limits but I got lucky and the laptop works. I want a
REAL boom microscope with a built in camera! I wonder how this job would be
done by real repair people?


I use a binocular microscope (not on a boom, alas), and a Weller with a
fine tip. If it's a really fine-pitch part you just melt a big glob of
solder on a bunch of pins then wick it off with solder wick, leaving a
whole bunch of nice joints.


That is a crude, but mostly workable way to do it. I found it a lot
easier to run a thin bead of liquid rosin RMA flux along the row of pins
and put a tiny drop of solder on the tip, then gently run it down the
row. That way you don't get a heavy underflow that causes loose solder
balls, or use enough heat to lift the pads. I could solder 72 pins on a
side in under 30 seconds, and get the proper profile on every pin. Tack
opposite corners, add flux, and dow a row, rotate 90° and do the next
row. I worked under a stereo microscope, and used one of several Edsyn
'loner' irons with the tip I needed for the job at hand. The smallest
tip was .015", but it didn't have enough mass to do more than a few
joints at a time. I used the next larger size for 95% of my work, a
small chisel tip, turned 90°, and soldering on the corner of the tip.
That way the tip recovered fast enough to do a whole row in one pass,
without running it too hot in between.


--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm

Sporadic E is the Earth's aluminum foil beanie for the 'global warming'
sheep.