This usurping of our freedoms will inevitably lead to civil war where
votes are counted in bullets. I have no idea when this will happen, but
history is pretty clear that ALL governments end in civil war or
invasion./

And the conservatives will be well armed!

Ed Huntress wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
...


Final score, no shots, 3 runs and 1 foul.

Shrug..it could well have been far worse.

You've just got to move to a better neighborhood, Gunner. It will improve
your whole outlook on life.

Ed Huntress

I just thought the same thing. As I was reading his prose, I thought to myself,
"What the hell did this guy do to deserve such a life? And why does he continue
to tolerate it?"

I do begin to understand your anger, if not your political leanings.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:57:46 GMT, Abrasha wrote:

Ed Huntress wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
...


Final score, no shots, 3 runs and 1 foul.

Shrug..it could well have been far worse.

You've just got to move to a better neighborhood, Gunner. It will improve
your whole outlook on life.

Ed Huntress

I just thought the same thing. As I was reading his prose, I thought to myself,
"What the hell did this guy do to deserve such a life? And why does he continue
to tolerate it?"

I do begin to understand your anger, if not your political leanings.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

Anger? Shrug..the world can and is a very dangerous place. At home, I
dont even lock the doors if I go uptown for a couple hours. Many folks
leave their car keys in the ignition. Shrug..other places (those
typically run by Liberals btw :P) tend to be a bit less lawful. The
only anger I have, is for the liberals who consider the plight of the
criminal, rather than the law abiding citizen. Those three pukes have
likely been in trouble before..but were loose on the street. With little
fear of the system or the citizen. BTW..:LA is not a place anyone can
get a CCW.

There are lots of places like this, DC, Sydney, NYC, Chicago, London,
etc etc where if you go to the wrong place..commend your soul to God,
and cover your ass as best you can. On the other hand..most places only
have petty crime at worst.

Im sure Ed's been to at least one Westec show. He knows the area
surrounding the facility. Want to walk those streets at 9pm?

I made a bet once with a strident anti-gun controller..that we would
start off on foot from East LA and walk to Downey at 12am on a Friday
night with 5, $100 bills stapled to our shirts. He could go unarmed and
talk his way out of any problems, and I would go as I saw fit. The
survivor..errr winner was the one who got to the finish line with the
most money still on the shirt. Oddly enough..he refused to take that
bet. I wonder why?

Unless you live in a small town, or a gated community...shrug..read the
crime reports for your area and see how safe you are. I dont worry about
people targeting me..its those To Whom it May Concern crimes that I
prepare for.

But then, I wear seat belts, have smoke detectors and fire extinguishers
handy as well.

And I refuse to permit anti- seat belt/smoke detector/fire extinguisher
fanatics from taking them away from me.

Gunner

The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty."
Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly
save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed. " Lazarus Long

"Gunner" wrote in message
...

Im sure Ed's been to at least one Westec show. He knows the area
surrounding the facility. Want to walk those streets at 9pm?

Actually, I'm going there again in a couple of weeks, and yes, I walk all
around at night. I only get to L.A. once every couple of years or so and I
gawk all around like the tourist I am.

However, I'd much rather walk down the West side of Manhattan late at night.
In fact, I did it nearly every night for four years. 'Never saw a gun.
'Never was threatened in any way.

When you talk about really dangerous places, I have to ask myself, why would
anyone live there on purpose? Some people are stuck there to some degree.
They need ways to deal with it, and carrying a gun is one way. But there is
no reason in the world for most of us to live there. Life is too short, and
it can be difficult enough as it is. Why make it worse by walking through
South-Central L.A., unless you want to get some practice with your gun?

Ed Huntress

I just thought the same thing. As I was reading his prose, I thought to
myself,
"What the hell did this guy do to deserve such a life? And why does he
continue
to tolerate it?"

I do begin to understand your anger, if not your political leanings.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com


Gracious, but this do sound like the old saying about a conservative being a
liberal after he was mugged.

John Martin

Ed Huntress wrote:

You've just got to move to a better neighborhood, Gunner. It will improve your whole outlook on life.

I understand the point you're trying to make, but this is just giving up
territory to the criminals, generally leaving behind those that can't
afford to move and are less likely to be able to defend themselves. Not
everyone can up and move when trouble shows up.

And even rural areas are getting dangerous. Meth is a big problem in
Nevada County, and there are some really scary people running around. I
know, my wife works at the county jail and gets to see lots of them.
Folks that just read the local paper are not getting the full story.
We're lucky that, outside of burglaries, they seem to prefer going after
each other. So far...

Jon

"Jon Anderson" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:

You've just got to move to a better neighborhood, Gunner. It will
improve your whole outlook on life.

I understand the point you're trying to make, but this is just giving up
territory to the criminals, generally leaving behind those that can't
afford to move and are less likely to be able to defend themselves. Not
everyone can up and move when trouble shows up.

And even rural areas are getting dangerous. Meth is a big problem in
Nevada County, and there are some really scary people running around. I
know, my wife works at the county jail and gets to see lots of them.
Folks that just read the local paper are not getting the full story.
We're lucky that, outside of burglaries, they seem to prefer going after
each other. So far...

Jon

There is a time and circumstance to revert to defending yourself with a gun.
Making it a cause celeb, a way of life, or a way to assert your resentment
about crime and its effects is a case of having forfeited the whole point.
As George Will once said, "...no society can be called successful where
violence is so prevalent and random that lawful citizens must go about
prepared to dispense violence in self-defense."

If you've given up on the idea of a successful society, or if you like
things the way they are, then making self-defense with a gun an acceptable
and unremarkable part of your life is a reasonable response. If you haven't
given up, it's something you do with great distaste and with a determination
to do what you can to change it.

Ed Huntress

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:30:25 GMT, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .

Im sure Ed's been to at least one Westec show. He knows the area
surrounding the facility. Want to walk those streets at 9pm?

Actually, I'm going there again in a couple of weeks, and yes, I walk all
around at night. I only get to L.A. once every couple of years or so and I
gawk all around like the tourist I am.

However, I'd much rather walk down the West side of Manhattan late at night.
In fact, I did it nearly every night for four years. 'Never saw a gun.
'Never was threatened in any way.

When you talk about really dangerous places, I have to ask myself, why would
anyone live there on purpose? Some people are stuck there to some degree.
They need ways to deal with it, and carrying a gun is one way. But there is
no reason in the world for most of us to live there. Life is too short, and
it can be difficult enough as it is. Why make it worse by walking through
South-Central L.A., unless you want to get some practice with your gun?

Ed Huntress

Because a hell of a lot of people have to live there?

Gunner

The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty."
Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly
save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed. " Lazarus Long

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:40:34 GMT, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

Folks that just read the local paper are not getting the full story.
We're lucky that, outside of burglaries, they seem to prefer going after
each other. So far...

Jon

There is a time and circumstance to revert to defending yourself with a gun.
Making it a cause celeb, a way of life, or a way to assert your resentment
about crime and its effects is a case of having forfeited the whole point.
As George Will once said, "...no society can be called successful where
violence is so prevalent and random that lawful citizens must go about
prepared to dispense violence in self-defense."

If you've given up on the idea of a successful society, or if you like
things the way they are, then making self-defense with a gun an acceptable
and unremarkable part of your life is a reasonable response. If you haven't
given up, it's something you do with great distaste and with a determination
to do what you can to change it.

Ed Huntress

So having a spare tire and a jack in your car means that you dispair of
having good tires?

They are for the **** Happens stuff, just like a defensive firearm.

And you can pontificate all you want..up till the moment you are
approached by a couple social misfits who want to share your wealth or
your life.

At that point..what you believe, what you want, what ever
philosophical mind set you have developed...all goes out the window and
you are suddenly given a reality check. With luck, you dont have to
cash it.

Gunner


The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty."
Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly
save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed. " Lazarus Long

"Gunner" wrote in message
...

Anger? Shrug..the world can and is a very dangerous place.

snip

There are lots of places like this, DC, Sydney, NYC, Chicago, London,
etc etc where if you go to the wrong place..commend your soul to God,
and cover your ass as best you can.

Ummmm...

More information please, Gunner.
I've only lived in Sydney's 'burbs for nigh-on 50 years, so maybe I've missed
something.

King's Cross? Oxford Street? Cabramatta? Redfern?
I've driven cabs for a living, and on the midnight-to-dawn shift the only jobs going
are 'round there. Worst violence I suffered was a drunk puking in the back of the
cab. Should I have shot him?

Where are these "wrong places"?

Please, tell me you don't believe the nonsense they write in the tabloids? (Ref the
recent "riots" in Redfern. pshaaww!)

If you're dopey enough to walk through some places with $100 dollar bills stapled to
your coat, then yes, indeed: "...the world can and is a very dangerous place."

Its pretty dangerous if you stand blindfolded in traffic, too.
Maybe you should shoot the drivers who don't swerve to miss you? (for their criminal
negligence)

Shrug.

Whatever.

Jeff.
(still surviving, gunless and swordless, and not paranoid, in Sydney.)

"Gunner" wrote in message
...


When you talk about really dangerous places, I have to ask myself, why
would
anyone live there on purpose? Some people are stuck there to some degree.
They need ways to deal with it, and carrying a gun is one way. But there
is
no reason in the world for most of us to live there. Life is too short,
and
it can be difficult enough as it is. Why make it worse by walking through
South-Central L.A., unless you want to get some practice with your gun?

Ed Huntress

Because a hell of a lot of people have to live there?

Yeah, but YOU don't. That's the point.

Ed Huntress

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:40:34 GMT, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

Folks that just read the local paper are not getting the full story.
We're lucky that, outside of burglaries, they seem to prefer going
after
each other. So far...

Jon

There is a time and circumstance to revert to defending yourself with a
gun.
Making it a cause celeb, a way of life, or a way to assert your
resentment
about crime and its effects is a case of having forfeited the whole
point.
As George Will once said, "...no society can be called successful where
violence is so prevalent and random that lawful citizens must go about
prepared to dispense violence in self-defense."

If you've given up on the idea of a successful society, or if you like
things the way they are, then making self-defense with a gun an
acceptable
and unremarkable part of your life is a reasonable response. If you
haven't
given up, it's something you do with great distaste and with a
determination
to do what you can to change it.

Ed Huntress

So having a spare tire and a jack in your car means that you dispair of
having good tires?

That's what Will was talking about. Comparing human lives to tires is
evidence of a spiritual failure.

Ed Huntress

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:57:47 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:47:05 GMT, wrote:

You might try moving. Just don't leave the boogeyman your forwarding
address.


Its unfortunate that good paying jobs are not available in the safer
rural areas. So those of us who depend on large industrial areas for
our bread and butter have to work there. East LA. Compton, Watts,
Downey, etc etc. Industrial areas that look like the worst of the East
German border areas after 5pm

Aren't you the guy who said his gross is $40k and that it takes 65k
miles per year of commuting to earn it? That's not what I'd call a
good paying job. If you can afford a computer, an ISP account, and the
time to use them ah.... quite a bit, then you can afford to move to a
better area. I wouldn't say that our own rural area has many
high-paying jobs, yet off hand I know one guy with a thriving biz
who's looking for a new hire, and a mile from him another who has a
nice home that's vacant with a large shop on acreage. He might even
swap rent for property maintenance. Both on a tree-covered mountaintop
BTW. Could be a nice setup for someone with even average technical
skills, and a dream compared to your situation. But I'm thinkin' that
even though this is a safe rural area, if you lived here you'd be just
like one of my neighbors who wears a sidearm full time. On guard
against the jackrabbits and boogeymen I guess.

Wayne

Ed Huntress wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
...


When you talk about really dangerous places, I have to ask myself, why
would
anyone live there on purpose? Some people are stuck there to some degree.
They need ways to deal with it, and carrying a gun is one way. But there
is
no reason in the world for most of us to live there. Life is too short,
and
it can be difficult enough as it is. Why make it worse by walking through
South-Central L.A., unless you want to get some practice with your gun?

Ed Huntress

Because a hell of a lot of people have to live there?

Yeah, but YOU don't. That's the point.

Ed Huntress

Yes he does, because he's stuck, hopelessly stuck. If he'd move to greener
pastures, he'd have to give up so much of his old self, he wouldn't know what to
do with himself.

He's a skilled man, and a survivor, who could find a job almost anywhere, and
for some reason he's tied himself down to ... what exactly? A large pile of
metal and other assorted junk in his back yard judging from his web site.

I suggest honest selfexamination, many years of it. With the help of a trained
professional.
--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

Gunner wrote:

And you can pontificate all you want..up till the moment you are
approached by a couple social misfits who want to share your wealth or
your life.

At that point..what you believe, what you want, what ever
philosophical mind set you have developed...all goes out the window and
you are suddenly given a reality check. With luck, you dont have to
cash it.


Interesting. In your life, as you say, you have been confronted on several
occasions by people who were out to harm you in a bad way. And, again as you
describe it, you feel that because of the fact that you have had a gun in those
situations, you were able to diffuse those situations.

In my life, I have never been confronted, with any of the situations, that you
have been confronted with. Once I have been in a situation that someone wanted
to harm me (an Englishman on a bad LSD trip).

We are of similar age I think. So why is it, that one person has all these
excperiences involving potential physical harm, guns, criminals, and other
undesirables, and the other has not.

Genes, upbringing, education, luck? Who knows. I firmly believe, that a person
creates his own reality, whatever that reality may be. You have a hand in ALL
that happens to you. It is not always easy to accept this. However, once you
do, and see the truth in this, it will set you free.

Trust me Gunner, you choose. Every moment of your life it is you who chooses to
live that life. Noone forces you to live the life you live, but you. Once you
get that, it is easy to change it. It's that easy.

Sadly, it seems that you have chosen a life that is filled with people who, by
your own account, are after you, and with guns, so you can keep these people at
a distance. Your "nom de plume" speaks volumes about you too.

It doesn't have to be this way.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

Abrasha wrote:


Yes he does, because he's stuck, hopelessly stuck. If he'd move to greener
pastures, he'd have to give up so much of his old self, he wouldn't know what to
do with himself.

He's a skilled man, and a survivor, who could find a job almost anywhere, and
for some reason he's tied himself down to ... what exactly? A large pile of
metal and other assorted junk in his back yard judging from his web site.

I suggest honest selfexamination, many years of it. With the help of a trained
professional.


If I've read his posts correctly, Gunner hasn't had much trouble at his
home, but while working his business or otherwise away from home.

Hell, I live in one of the reputedly safest neighborhoods in Ohio and
not long ago a neighbor ran off two gentlemen of color and "colors" from
Akron at gunpoint. Apparently they'd secured the son's name and address
from a friend at BMV and were intent on evening a score for "dissing"
them at a dance club. At least that's what they reportedly said.

Of course, I didn't get to hear their stories, but their coming 20 or
more miles from home into a strange neighborhood, bearing knives and
clubs and destroying a family's front door, doesn't induce me to think
their purpose was entirely benign.

Unless one lives in a gated, guarded community, the chance of
encountering "street violence" is non-zero, even if you _don't_ live in
a bad neighborhood. The bad neighborhood might just come to you.

And one just might encounter problems other than at home. Must one
surrender all freedom of movement for avoiding danger or criminality?
Once it was considered an honorable civic duty to hinder or stop a crime
in progress, if possible, and self-defense is always a good reason for
counter violence, though not for initiating it.

I try not to forget that "to Protect and Serve" is a motto, not a promise.

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:38:23 GMT, wrote:

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:57:47 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:47:05 GMT, wrote:

You might try moving. Just don't leave the boogeyman your forwarding
address.


Its unfortunate that good paying jobs are not available in the safer
rural areas. So those of us who depend on large industrial areas for
our bread and butter have to work there. East LA. Compton, Watts,
Downey, etc etc. Industrial areas that look like the worst of the East
German border areas after 5pm

Aren't you the guy who said his gross is $40k and that it takes 65k
miles per year of commuting to earn it? That's not what I'd call a
good paying job. If you can afford a computer, an ISP account, and the
time to use them ah.... quite a bit, then you can afford to move to a
better area. I wouldn't say that our own rural area has many
high-paying jobs, yet off hand I know one guy with a thriving biz
who's looking for a new hire, and a mile from him another who has a
nice home that's vacant with a large shop on acreage. He might even
swap rent for property maintenance. Both on a tree-covered mountaintop
BTW. Could be a nice setup for someone with even average technical
skills, and a dream compared to your situation. But I'm thinkin' that
even though this is a safe rural area, if you lived here you'd be just
like one of my neighbors who wears a sidearm full time. On guard
against the jackrabbits and boogeymen I guess.

Wayne

Actually last year my gross was about $26k. With the 65k mileage.
Since the big layoffs in 2001, I am now an independent machine tool
repair technician. This means I work on machines in machine shops. If
there are no machine shops (or few of them) then I have no work. No
work =no money. no money= no mortgage payment=out on the street.

So perhaps its best that I stay where there are machine shops, no? Hard
to find enough machine shops in Podunk Falls to make a living fixing
their machines/phone systems/plant maint.

Im also 50 yrs old, with an ailing wife, no savings (well, I have $100
in my pocket for emergencies) and a home that will be paid off in about
12 months, however it happens to be in a town that is dying, and
selling it would result in a net loss.

As to your neighbor carrying a firearm...would he also be one of those
paranoid militant types who has a fire extinguisher close by?

Ill bet you are one of those anti-fire extinguisher types. Do you know
how many people are killed every year by them? LOTS! In fact, we had an
example on this news group where a deadly red fire extinguisher turned
on its owner and committed mayhem and carnage that would may you puke.

Ban Assault Fire Extinguisher! Limited them to less than 10 lbs! If
they have special nozzles, or hangers, they can only be used for
nefarious purposes and should be registered or banned.

Its for the Children!

Gunner

The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty."
Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly
save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed. " Lazarus Long

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:25:06 GMT, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .


When you talk about really dangerous places, I have to ask myself, why
would
anyone live there on purpose? Some people are stuck there to some degree.
They need ways to deal with it, and carrying a gun is one way. But there
is
no reason in the world for most of us to live there. Life is too short,
and
it can be difficult enough as it is. Why make it worse by walking through
South-Central L.A., unless you want to get some practice with your gun?

Ed Huntress

Because a hell of a lot of people have to live there?

Yeah, but YOU don't. That's the point.

Ed Huntress

But I have to work there..and thats the point.
And you ignore the poor *******s that do have to live there who are
unable to protect themselves.

Gunner

The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty."
Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly
save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed. " Lazarus Long

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 23:41:45 +1100, "A.Gent"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .

Anger? Shrug..the world can and is a very dangerous place.

snip

There are lots of places like this, DC, Sydney, NYC, Chicago, London,
etc etc where if you go to the wrong place..commend your soul to God,
and cover your ass as best you can.

Ummmm...

More information please, Gunner.
I've only lived in Sydney's 'burbs for nigh-on 50 years, so maybe I've missed
something.

King's Cross? Oxford Street? Cabramatta? Redfern?
I've driven cabs for a living, and on the midnight-to-dawn shift the only jobs going
are 'round there. Worst violence I suffered was a drunk puking in the back of the
cab. Should I have shot him?

Did you have reasonable cause to believe that your life was in danger?
If not..of course not.

Where are these "wrong places"?

Redfern is a good start. The "Block" sounds like a dangerous place to be
after dark. Kings Cross has always been a exciting place....

Please, tell me you don't believe the nonsense they write in the tabloids? (Ref the
recent "riots" in Redfern. pshaaww!)

Heroin addicts tend to make assault a habit as well...

If you're dopey enough to walk through some places with $100 dollar bills stapled to
your coat, then yes, indeed: "...the world can and is a very dangerous place."

So you are saying that one can indeed be in danger in Sydney? Lets
replace those $100 bills with expensive cameras and do the same shall
we?

Its pretty dangerous if you stand blindfolded in traffic, too.
Maybe you should shoot the drivers who don't swerve to miss you? (for their criminal
negligence)

Shrug.

Whatever.

Interesting set of strawmen you fabricate. Is there some reason you
felt the need to spin and divert?

Jeff.
(still surviving, gunless and swordless, and not paranoid, in Sydney.)

Good for you. What makes you think anyone with a gun, or a fire
extinguisher is paranoid?

Gunner Asch
The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty."
Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly
save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed. " Lazarus Long

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:13:42 GMT, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:40:34 GMT, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

Folks that just read the local paper are not getting the full story.
We're lucky that, outside of burglaries, they seem to prefer going
after
each other. So far...

Jon

There is a time and circumstance to revert to defending yourself with a
gun.
Making it a cause celeb, a way of life, or a way to assert your
resentment
about crime and its effects is a case of having forfeited the whole
point.
As George Will once said, "...no society can be called successful where
violence is so prevalent and random that lawful citizens must go about
prepared to dispense violence in self-defense."

If you've given up on the idea of a successful society, or if you like
things the way they are, then making self-defense with a gun an
acceptable
and unremarkable part of your life is a reasonable response. If you
haven't
given up, it's something you do with great distaste and with a
determination
to do what you can to change it.

Ed Huntress

So having a spare tire and a jack in your car means that you dispair of
having good tires?

That's what Will was talking about. Comparing human lives to tires is
evidence of a spiritual failure.

Ed Huntress

The inability to follow the logic of "in case **** happens" is either a
blind spot on your part, or an intentional attempt at spin.

Where the **** did you get "comparing human lives to tires" out of that?
You carry a jack in case you blow out a tire. You carry a weapon in
case someone decides to attack you. With luck, neither will ever be
used.

If your vehicle is parked or driven very slowly on a manicured parking
lot..its unlikley you will ever get a blow out. If you live in a high
security gated community its unlikely anyone will attack you.

Its the rest of the places you go that are a bit more problematic.
Drive near a construction site..the chances of a flat are a lot higher.
Work/travel in a high crime rate area..the chances of an attack are a
lot higher.

Whats do difficult for you to understand about that?

Gunner

The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty."
Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly
save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed. " Lazarus Long

The inability to follow the logic of "in case **** happens" is either a
blind spot on your part, or an intentional attempt at spin.

Where the **** did you get "comparing human lives to tires" out of that?
You carry a jack in case you blow out a tire. You carry a weapon in
case someone decides to attack you. With luck, neither will ever be
used.

If your vehicle is parked or driven very slowly on a manicured parking
lot..its unlikley you will ever get a blow out. If you live in a high
security gated community its unlikely anyone will attack you.

Its the rest of the places you go that are a bit more problematic.
Drive near a construction site..the chances of a flat are a lot higher.
Work/travel in a high crime rate area..the chances of an attack are a
lot higher.

Whats do difficult for you to understand about that?

Gunner


It is amazing to me that people who have never been in fear for their life
truly believe that they never will nor will anyone else. So why do they or
anyone else need a gun?

I like your analogy of the spare tire and jack. Hopefully we'll never need
it but it's there if and when you do. If everyone was required to own and
carry a gun, take a class, qualify with it; what do you think would happen
to the crime rate?

Lane

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:18:40 GMT, Abrasha wrote:

Gunner wrote:

And you can pontificate all you want..up till the moment you are
approached by a couple social misfits who want to share your wealth or
your life.

At that point..what you believe, what you want, what ever
philosophical mind set you have developed...all goes out the window and
you are suddenly given a reality check. With luck, you dont have to
cash it.


Interesting. In your life, as you say, you have been confronted on several
occasions by people who were out to harm you in a bad way. And, again as you
describe it, you feel that because of the fact that you have had a gun in those
situations, you were able to diffuse those situations.

In my life, I have never been confronted, with any of the situations, that you
have been confronted with. Once I have been in a situation that someone wanted
to harm me (an Englishman on a bad LSD trip).

We are of similar age I think. So why is it, that one person has all these
excperiences involving potential physical harm, guns, criminals, and other
undesirables, and the other has not.

Genes, upbringing, education, luck? Who knows. I firmly believe, that a person
creates his own reality, whatever that reality may be. You have a hand in ALL
that happens to you. It is not always easy to accept this. However, once you
do, and see the truth in this, it will set you free.

Trust me Gunner, you choose. Every moment of your life it is you who chooses to
live that life. Noone forces you to live the life you live, but you. Once you
get that, it is easy to change it. It's that easy.

Sadly, it seems that you have chosen a life that is filled with people who, by
your own account, are after you, and with guns, so you can keep these people at
a distance. Your "nom de plume" speaks volumes about you too.

It doesn't have to be this way.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

True. But it's difficult to get 3-phase power up on top of a mountain
in a cave.


Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:34:24 GMT, Gunner
wrote:


Actually last year my gross was about $26k. With the 65k mileage.
Since the big layoffs in 2001, I am now an independent machine tool
repair technician. This means I work on machines in machine shops. If
there are no machine shops (or few of them) then I have no work. No
work =no money. no money= no mortgage payment=out on the street.

So perhaps its best that I stay where there are machine shops, no? Hard
to find enough machine shops in Podunk Falls to make a living fixing
their machines/phone systems/plant maint.

If you can repair machine tools, then there are lots of trades you
could handle. The one I mentioned pays more and is plain and simple a
better job and life than you've described. With as many friends as you
have (what the yuppies call a network) you ought to be able to find a
suitable situation in a heartbeat.

Im also 50 yrs old, with an ailing wife, no savings (well, I have $100
in my pocket for emergencies) and a home that will be paid off in about
12 months, however it happens to be in a town that is dying, and
selling it would result in a net loss.

Cut your losses or keep treading water, an easy decision IMO.

As to your neighbor carrying a firearm...would he also be one of those
paranoid militant types who has a fire extinguisher close by?

Ill bet you are one of those anti-fire extinguisher types. Do you know
how many people are killed every year by them? LOTS! In fact, we had an
example on this news group where a deadly red fire extinguisher turned
on its owner and committed mayhem and carnage that would may you puke.

Ban Assault Fire Extinguisher! Limited them to less than 10 lbs! If
they have special nozzles, or hangers, they can only be used for
nefarious purposes and should be registered or banned.

Its for the Children!

My neighbor's situation is ****. His beer budget alone could be traded
for 3 or 4 rungs on the ladder of life. If he has any fire
extinguishers you can bet that they're rusty, risky, and up to no
good. He seeds the roadsides with his empty cans, so it wouldn't
surprise me if he's tossed a fire extinguisher out the window by
mistake. Please warn your children - beware of red canisters and
flaming paper bags.

Me, I have guns, fire extinguishers, and a whole bunch of
limb-threatening power tools. Just the same, I don't (and I know
you're gonna' find this part weird) feel the need to carry a skilsaw
around in anticipation of coming across a 2X4 that's too long. My
guess is that people who do feel the urge to carry a skilsaw would
find that most 2X4's are either already too long or might even be
growing. If you doubt that theory, then conduct a study of road-sign
ventilation techniques and get back to us with the results.

Wayne

As George Will once said, "...no society can be called successful where
violence is so prevalent and random that lawful citizens must go about
prepared to dispense violence in self-defense."

If you've given up on the idea of a successful society, or if you like
things the way they are, then making self-defense with a gun an
acceptable
and unremarkable part of your life is a reasonable response. If you
haven't
given up, it's something you do with great distaste and with a
determination
to do what you can to change it.

Ed Huntress

So having a spare tire and a jack in your car means that you dispair of
having good tires?

That's what Will was talking about. Comparing human lives to tires is
evidence of a spiritual failure.

Ed Huntress


I haven't seen that quote in context. On the face of it, though, I don't think
that Will was talking about spiritual failure of any sort. It was a simple
statement of fact.

I hope that you weren't implying any sort of spiritual shortcomings among those
who feel that going armed is the solution.

The real spiritual failure is that the society has failed to inculcate -
through moral education, fear of punishment, or whatever - in a significant
portion of our population a respect for others.

I hold human life sacred - it is our greatest gift. But then, I'm a black and
white kind of guy. Once someone crosses the line and attempts to do me serious
harm, their life in my value system becomes absolutely worthless. I've never
had to shoot anyone. I hope I never will. If I do, I'm sure that I will have
nightmares about it afterward. Those I can't control. But would I feel less
moral? No.

My father used to say about the Quakers that he admired their philosophy, but
that it was a good thing that they had the Scots/Irish between them and the
Indians.

No one ever said that our society was successful. It is, however, the best
we've found yet.

John Martin

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 23:41:45 +1100, "A.Gent"
wrote:
King's Cross? Oxford Street? Cabramatta? Redfern?
I've driven cabs for a living, and on the midnight-to-dawn shift the only jobs
going
are 'round there. Worst violence I suffered was a drunk puking in the back of the
cab. Should I have shot him?

Did you have reasonable cause to believe that your life was in danger?
If not..of course not.

Hehehe
Post in haste, repent at leisure. Of course not. Bad example on my part.
Maybe if I really was as "cranky" as my munged return addy suggests (I'm not), then I
might've shot him. Geez - I wasn't happy.


Where are these "wrong places"?

Redfern is a good start. The "Block" sounds like a dangerous place to be
after dark. Kings Cross has always been a exciting place....

As a student I walked through Redfern (railway stn to the uni) every day for 3 years.
A little later, 2 nights a week for two years. No problems.
I *could've* entered into some situations (usually with drunken antagonists), stirred
up trouble and been in deep manure - but I chose to walk to uni instead.

The block is as bad as you make it. Incidents of violence and intimidation occur,
but the vast majority are directed at family members. (Lemme rephrase - "within the
same family.")

Random acts of violence only seem so prevalent because they are replayed over and
over again until it seems that they happen all the time.

Cops are in danger in some area of the block at some times. They *are* packing.
Doesn't help against the drunken tactics employed against them.

======

King's Cross? Much cleaned up and gentrified since the days of my youth. A lot of
the sleaze has moved to the 'burbs, though prostitution and drugs still abound.
Certainly not dangerous to walk around. As I said earlier, I drove cabs
midnight-to-dawn around the Cross and never felt the need to pack heat (as they say).


Please, tell me you don't believe the nonsense they write in the tabloids? (Ref
the
recent "riots" in Redfern. pshaaww!)

Heroin addicts tend to make assault a habit as well...

Of course. I cannot deny their existence.
Discretion and sensible habits can (and do) minimise your own personal risk exposure
(without resorting to carrying arsenals).

Shrug.

You can't reduce all your risks to zero, and you shouldn't reduce a risk by
introducing a complicating factor which exacerbates it (packin' heat, that is.)



If you're dopey enough to walk through some places with $100 dollar bills stapled
to
your coat, then yes, indeed: "...the world can and is a very dangerous place."

So you are saying that one can indeed be in danger in Sydney? Lets
replace those $100 bills with expensive cameras and do the same shall
we?

Been there, done that. Used to be nuts about photography (still am, actually).
Never been mugged for them.

Am I going to sling five Nikons around my neck and go prancing through Cabramatta
after midnight?
No.
I'm not a bloody idiot! (despite protestations...)
Not going to play chicken with a Mack truck either.

Is Sydney a war zone where you need to pack heat in order to be safe?
Shrug.
Whadd'ya reckon?



Interesting set of strawmen you fabricate. Is there some reason you
felt the need to spin and divert?

Fair go, Gunner. That's pretty rich coming from Mr
"I've-read-it-on-the-net-therefore-its-true" Gunner.


Jeff.
(still surviving, gunless and swordless, and not paranoid, in Sydney.)

Good for you. What makes you think anyone with a gun, or a fire
extinguisher is paranoid?

Ummmm... (?)
Did I say that?

I've got a fire extinguisher and a jack and a spare tyre. Never felt the need to
threaten ayone with them (yet).

Shrug


from http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=paranoia :
"...In its mild form paranoia may consist in the well-marked crotchetiness exhibited
in persons commonly called "cranks." "

Your fan club (bless 'em) might not see the connection...

Some will, however.

Cheers for now, Gunner.
Sleep well...
....though how you can with one eye open, I don't know.

Jeff

"Gunner" wrote in message
...

The inability to follow the logic of "in case **** happens" is either a
blind spot on your part, or an intentional attempt at spin.

Where the **** did you get "comparing human lives to tires" out of that?
You carry a jack in case you blow out a tire. You carry a weapon in
case someone decides to attack you. With luck, neither will ever be
used.

My personal total over 5 decades (to date):

Flat tyres, necessitating spare and jack: about 20-30 (estimate)
Personal attacks, necessitating pistol: none (exact figure)

Hmmmm...

Instances of sky falling on head, necessitating steel umbrella: none (exact figure)

So - logically, I should be carrying a steel umbrella at all times, just in case the
sky falls. With luck, I won't need it.

Shrug

Jeff.

"Lane" lane_nospam@copperaccents_dot_com wrote in message
...

I like your analogy of the spare tire and jack. Hopefully we'll never need
it but it's there if and when you do.

Poor analogy, unless you live in downtown Hell.
I've needed a spare tyre and a jack *plenty* of times.
I've never *needed* a pistol.

....and I don't feel threatened because the loudmouth aggressive adolescents cruising
down main street have a spare tyre and a jack in the boot of their car.

But if they had a pistol each?

...If everyone was required to own and
carry a gun, take a class, qualify with it; what do you think would happen
to the crime rate?

Shootouts on main street every lunchtime.
Insults settled with lead and cordite.
Accidents "evened-up" with gunfights.

Just like Dodge City - 1835.

Cooooooooool!



Jeff.

A.Gent wrote:
"Lane" lane_nospam@copperaccents_dot_com wrote in message
...

I like your analogy of the spare tire and jack. Hopefully we'll never need
it but it's there if and when you do.


Poor analogy, unless you live in downtown Hell.
I've needed a spare tyre and a jack *plenty* of times.
I've never *needed* a pistol.

...and I don't feel threatened because the loudmouth aggressive adolescents cruising
down main street have a spare tyre and a jack in the boot of their car.

But if they had a pistol each?


...If everyone was required to own and
carry a gun, take a class, qualify with it; what do you think would happen
to the crime rate?


Shootouts on main street every lunchtime.
Insults settled with lead and cordite.
Accidents "evened-up" with gunfights.

Just like Dodge City - 1835.

Cooooooooool!



Jeff.



Which has been the result in exactly how many of the, now 46, US states
that have liberalized Concealed Carry laws?

Just curious, you understand.

And, no, I own no guns and don't carry.

"John Husvar" wrote in message
...
A.Gent wrote:
"Lane" lane_nospam@copperaccents_dot_com wrote in message
...
...If everyone was required to own and
carry a gun, take a class, qualify with it; what do you think would happen
to the crime rate?


Shootouts on main street every lunchtime.
Insults settled with lead and cordite.
Accidents "evened-up" with gunfights.

Just like Dodge City - 1835.

Cooooooooool!

Jeff.

Which has been the result in exactly how many of the, now 46, US states
that have liberalized Concealed Carry laws?

Just curious, you understand.

And, no, I own no guns and don't carry.


Hang on a sec'!

Quote from above post with my emphasis:
...If EVERYONE was REQUIRED to own and
carry a gun, take a class, qualify with it; what do you think would happen
to the crime rate?

"Everyone" was "required"
Like some insane Heinlein-esque fantasy world.

Which US states require this?

Jeff

In article , A.Gent says...

"Everyone" was "required"
Like some insane Heinlein-esque fantasy world.

Which US states require this?

Umm. Switzerland. Oh I forgot, there's
a difference between US states and Switzerland.
No crime, there....

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

A.Gent wrote:
"John Husvar" wrote in message
...

A.Gent wrote:

"Lane" lane_nospam@copperaccents_dot_com wrote in message
...

...If everyone was required to own and
carry a gun, take a class, qualify with it; what do you think would happen
to the crime rate?


Shootouts on main street every lunchtime.
Insults settled with lead and cordite.
Accidents "evened-up" with gunfights.

Just like Dodge City - 1835.

Cooooooooool!

Jeff.

Which has been the result in exactly how many of the, now 46, US states
that have liberalized Concealed Carry laws?

Just curious, you understand.

And, no, I own no guns and don't carry.



Hang on a sec'!

Quote from above post with my emphasis:

...If EVERYONE was REQUIRED to own and
carry a gun, take a class, qualify with it; what do you think would happen
to the crime rate?


"Everyone" was "required"
Like some insane Heinlein-esque fantasy world.

Which US states require this?

None. You are correct. My mistake.

But it does not follow that people being armed results in increased
violence. It has worked both ways historically. Presently, it seems to
be reducing violence in the USA.

I would favor and support such a requirement, however, so long as
"everyone" was defined as every legal adult not convicted of a felony
crime of violence, of no demonstrable mental disability, and not
religiously or ethically scrupulous of carrying weapons.

But then I also would favor the return of the concept of Outlawry, where
a person declared an Outlaw after due process, having demonstrated
unwillingness to accept the authority of law, also forfeits its protection.

I make no claim to being civilized, a term whose root meant simply
citified or a city dweller. Civilization has no claim to moral superiority.

"John Husvar" wrote in message
...
But it does not follow that people being armed results in increased
violence. It has worked both ways historically. Presently, it seems to
be reducing violence in the USA.

Don't get me wrong.
I don't for a second suggest that the U.S. should seek to restrict gun ownership.
That horse has well and truly bolted.
Thre may well be a valid argument for arming more U.S. citizens - but I'm not
familiar with the U.S. situation. (Unless TV counts!)


I would favor and support such a requirement, however, so long as
"everyone" was defined as every legal adult not convicted of a felony
crime of violence, of no demonstrable mental disability, and not
religiously or ethically scrupulous of carrying weapons.

I wouldn't, because I simply don't trust *everyone* (minus your listed exceptions) to
exhibit sufficient presence of mind to avoid (or not *cause*) unnecessary bloodshed.

IOW, that man is angry, nay FURIOUS, but unarmed. He may do a fair measure of
damage.
-or-
That man is furious and armed. BANG Dead people.


But then I also would favor the return of the concept of Outlawry, where
a person declared an Outlaw after due process, having demonstrated
unwillingness to accept the authority of law, also forfeits its protection.

Thats a dangerously slippery slope. I don't favour pampering criminals, but:
That man is stealing my car therefore I can shoot him.

Is that an acceptable outcome of "Outlawry"?

I make no claim to being civilized, a term whose root meant simply
citified or a city dweller. Civilization has no claim to moral superiority.

Moral? Maybe not.
But in every other sense superior.

Without civilisation, I'd have no lathe, no mill, no metal and no time to play with
them. EEurgghhhhh.

Jeff

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , A.Gent says...

"Everyone" was "required"
Like some insane Heinlein-esque fantasy world.

Which US states require this?

Umm. Switzerland. Oh I forgot, there's
a difference between US states and Switzerland.
No crime, there....

Jim

I don't believe the Swiss pack heat, concealed, on the streets, the buses and in the
bars.

I *could* be wrong.

Jeff

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:34:24 GMT, Gunner wrote:
Actually last year my gross was about $26k. With the 65k mileage.
Since the big layoffs in 2001, I am now an independent machine tool
repair technician. This means I work on machines in machine shops. If
there are no machine shops (or few of them) then I have no work. No
work =no money. no money= no mortgage payment=out on the street.

So perhaps its best that I stay where there are machine shops, no? Hard
to find enough machine shops in Podunk Falls to make a living fixing
their machines/phone systems/plant maint.

Im also 50 yrs old, with an ailing wife, no savings (well, I have $100
in my pocket for emergencies) and a home that will be paid off in about
12 months, however it happens to be in a town that is dying, and
selling it would result in a net loss.

As Dr Phil would say, "How's that workin' for ya?"

It is obvious that you've made some bad choices, and had some
bad breaks, but continuing to stay where you are, playing a losing
game, isn't really smart. Perhaps it is time to make other choices.

My neighbor worked as a mechanic for Eastern Airlines until they
went bankrupt. He started a business restringing tennis rackets in
his garage. Today he repairs and refurbishes all sorts of sports
equipment, and makes a much better living than he did while
working for Eastern. He no longer cares about the health of the
airline industry.

Another of his co-workers at Eastern, a baggage handler, started
a home painting business, and also is doing much better than
when he worked for Eastern.

A new neighbor is a landscaper. Judging by the several nice cars
and trucks, and the big boat he keeps in his back yard, I suspect
he is doing much better than $26,000 a year gross too.

The local QuikTrip always has a sign in the window saying that
store managers make an average of $52,280 per year, and they're
hiring.

The point of all this is that you don't have to be stuck. There are
better choices out there than the ones you've made. Choices that
will bring you more money, health insurance coverage, and freedom
from worries about scratching out a living in a declining industry
located in undesirable parts of cities.

Gary

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:25:06 GMT, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .


When you talk about really dangerous places, I have to ask myself, why
would
anyone live there on purpose? Some people are stuck there to some
degree.
They need ways to deal with it, and carrying a gun is one way. But
there
is
no reason in the world for most of us to live there. Life is too
short,
and
it can be difficult enough as it is. Why make it worse by walking
through
South-Central L.A., unless you want to get some practice with your
gun?

Ed Huntress

Because a hell of a lot of people have to live there?

Yeah, but YOU don't. That's the point.

Ed Huntress

But I have to work there..and thats the point.
And you ignore the poor *******s that do have to live there who are
unable to protect themselves.

Firstly, no, you don't have to work there. California's metalworking
manufacturing is a shadow of its former self. In most of the country,
metalworking manufacturing in dangerous cores of old cities is virtually
gone. You should see how it's done in Michigan, Illinois, or Wisconsin.

Secondly, the poor *******s that are stuck there have a good reason,
perhaps, to carry guns to defend themselves. They live in a failed
subculture of society. That's not, I hope, where we're headed overall. Nor
is it a place where you have to live or work.

--
Ed Huntress
(remove "3" from email address for email reply)

"Gunner" wrote in message
...

If you've given up on the idea of a successful society, or if you like
things the way they are, then making self-defense with a gun an
acceptable
and unremarkable part of your life is a reasonable response. If you
haven't
given up, it's something you do with great distaste and with a
determination
to do what you can to change it.

Ed Huntress

So having a spare tire and a jack in your car means that you dispair of
having good tires?

That's what Will was talking about. Comparing human lives to tires is
evidence of a spiritual failure.

Ed Huntress

The inability to follow the logic of "in case **** happens" is either a
blind spot on your part, or an intentional attempt at spin.

No, it's a comment upon what you've accepted as a way of life, because
you've accepted the social failure that Will was talking about.


Where the **** did you get "comparing human lives to tires" out of that?

Hmm. Maybe it was the words? Or were you thinking about something else, and
just typed those words by accident?

You carry a jack in case you blow out a tire. You carry a weapon in
case someone decides to attack you. With luck, neither will ever be
used.

Putting the two into the same paragraph tells us your point of view, which
is one that sees each as an analogy of the other. That's the point. Blown
tire, blown-out brains...all the same thing, eh?

--
Ed Huntress
(remove "3" from email address for email reply)

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:35:32 GMT, Gunner wrote:
But I have to work there..and thats the point.

No, you *choose* to work there. And by your own admission, you're
making less than poverty level doing it. Wise up.

Gary

"JMartin957" wrote in message
...
As George Will once said, "...no society can be called successful
where
violence is so prevalent and random that lawful citizens must go about
prepared to dispense violence in self-defense."

If you've given up on the idea of a successful society, or if you like
things the way they are, then making self-defense with a gun an
acceptable
and unremarkable part of your life is a reasonable response. If you
haven't
given up, it's something you do with great distaste and with a
determination
to do what you can to change it.

Ed Huntress

So having a spare tire and a jack in your car means that you dispair of
having good tires?

That's what Will was talking about. Comparing human lives to tires is
evidence of a spiritual failure.

Ed Huntress


I haven't seen that quote in context. On the face of it, though, I don't
think
that Will was talking about spiritual failure of any sort. It was a
simple
statement of fact.

I hope that you weren't implying any sort of spiritual shortcomings among
those
who feel that going armed is the solution.

Not at all. It's the spirit of the society itself. If a need to carry
concealed handguns is considered a normal and acceptable part of social
existence, then the society has an attitude problem. It lacks the spirit
that the ancient Greeks identified so well as the necessary condition for a
civil society, particularly for a democratic one, to thrive.


The real spiritual failure is that the society has failed to inculcate -
through moral education, fear of punishment, or whatever - in a
significant
portion of our population a respect for others.

That's a good issue. Lack of that sense of civic responsibility, the social
responsibilities we have to each other, is a result of the giving-up that I
was talking about.

Ed Huntress

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:45:00 GMT, wrote:

Me, I have guns, fire extinguishers, and a whole bunch of
limb-threatening power tools. Just the same, I don't (and I know
you're gonna' find this part weird) feel the need to carry a skilsaw
around in anticipation of coming across a 2X4 that's too long. My
guess is that people who do feel the urge to carry a skilsaw would
find that most 2X4's are either already too long or might even be
growing. If you doubt that theory, then conduct a study of road-sign
ventilation techniques and get back to us with the results.

Wayne

Wayne...the fact of the matter is...no one is ever likely to come along
with a 2x4 and tell you to cut it or they will crush your skull with it.

Like fire extinguishers and smoke detectors..no one ever hopes they are
needed, but on the rare circumstances they are needed...not having them
(or a firearm) may cost you your life.

Its not the odds...its the stakes.

Gunner

The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty."
Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly
save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed. " Lazarus Long

On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:27:58 +1100, "A.Gent"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 23:41:45 +1100, "A.Gent"
wrote:
King's Cross? Oxford Street? Cabramatta? Redfern?
I've driven cabs for a living, and on the midnight-to-dawn shift the only jobs
going
are 'round there. Worst violence I suffered was a drunk puking in the back of the
cab. Should I have shot him?

Did you have reasonable cause to believe that your life was in danger?
If not..of course not.

Hehehe
Post in haste, repent at leisure. Of course not. Bad example on my part.
Maybe if I really was as "cranky" as my munged return addy suggests (I'm not), then I
might've shot him. Geez - I wasn't happy.


Chuckle..I drove a cab for a while once upon a time..its always grim
when your fare is a couple drunk chicks..and the first one gets the
heaves..which sets the other one off as well...double your
pleasure..double your fun... You learn where the car washes are
really fast.


Where are these "wrong places"?

Redfern is a good start. The "Block" sounds like a dangerous place to be
after dark. Kings Cross has always been a exciting place....

As a student I walked through Redfern (railway stn to the uni) every day for 3 years.
A little later, 2 nights a week for two years. No problems.
I *could've* entered into some situations (usually with drunken antagonists), stirred
up trouble and been in deep manure - but I chose to walk to uni instead.

How long ago?

The block is as bad as you make it. Incidents of violence and intimidation occur,
but the vast majority are directed at family members. (Lemme rephrase - "within the
same family.")

Random acts of violence only seem so prevalent because they are replayed over and
over again until it seems that they happen all the time.

Cops are in danger in some area of the block at some times. They *are* packing.
Doesn't help against the drunken tactics employed against them.

Does it keep them alive? Thats the name of the game...

======

King's Cross? Much cleaned up and gentrified since the days of my youth. A lot of
the sleaze has moved to the 'burbs, though prostitution and drugs still abound.
Certainly not dangerous to walk around. As I said earlier, I drove cabs
midnight-to-dawn around the Cross and never felt the need to pack heat (as they say).


Please, tell me you don't believe the nonsense they write in the tabloids? (Ref
the
recent "riots" in Redfern. pshaaww!)

Heroin addicts tend to make assault a habit as well...

Of course. I cannot deny their existence.
Discretion and sensible habits can (and do) minimise your own personal risk exposure
(without resorting to carrying arsenals).

Define discretion and sensible habits thankyouveddyveddymuch.

I simply go where I wish, when I wish, with no fear. Shrug. Id just as
soon not wander through the front yard of the Bloods or Crips, but if I
make a wrong turn, I dont sweat it.
Shrug.

Shrug.

You can't reduce all your risks to zero, and you shouldn't reduce a risk by
introducing a complicating factor which exacerbates it (packin' heat, that is.)

You are laboring under a false pretense..that having a concealed weapon
exacerbates something. How can it? If its concealed, no one knows you
have it. They have no reason to push or play drunken macho games. Its
only used as the final response to a bad situation.



If you're dopey enough to walk through some places with $100 dollar bills stapled
to
your coat, then yes, indeed: "...the world can and is a very dangerous place."

So you are saying that one can indeed be in danger in Sydney? Lets
replace those $100 bills with expensive cameras and do the same shall
we?

Been there, done that. Used to be nuts about photography (still am, actually).
Never been mugged for them.

Had a chap on a Lambreta try it once on Tudo Street. He had an
accident.

Am I going to sling five Nikons around my neck and go prancing through Cabramatta
after midnight?
No.

Why not? Dont enjoy night photography or exciting local sceanery?
I'm not a bloody idiot! (despite protestations...)

So you are saying that you are afraid to go about your lawful business?

Not going to play chicken with a Mack truck either.

Playing chicken with a Mack is not lawful business.

Is Sydney a war zone where you need to pack heat in order to be safe?
Shrug.
Whadd'ya reckon?

Seems, as I indicated, parts of it are unsafe for the unarmed. Ive never
said it was a war zone, but if you are afraid to go about your lawful
business..its sounds like it has some scary places.



Interesting set of strawmen you fabricate. Is there some reason you
felt the need to spin and divert?

Fair go, Gunner. That's pretty rich coming from Mr
"I've-read-it-on-the-net-therefore-its-true" Gunner.

Thats pretty rich coming from someone afraid to go about their lawful
business.


Jeff.
(still surviving, gunless and swordless, and not paranoid, in Sydney.)

Good for you. What makes you think anyone with a gun, or a fire
extinguisher is paranoid?

Ummmm... (?)
Did I say that?

Yup.


I've got a fire extinguisher and a jack and a spare tyre. Never felt the need to
threaten ayone with them (yet).

So you consider a gun is something to be used to threaten with? Its
good you didnt have one as a taxi driver, if your self control is so
poor.

Shrug


from http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=paranoia :
"...In its mild form paranoia may consist in the well-marked crotchetiness exhibited
in persons commonly called "cranks." "

I notice the term "may" at the beginning of the sentence. Frued also
indicated that sometimes a cigar is simply a cigar.

Your fan club (bless 'em) might not see the connection...

Im sure they do, but most will consider it improper.

Some will, however.

Some folks believe that Elvis is running a stop and rob in Fresno.

Cheers for now, Gunner.
Sleep well...
...though how you can with one eye open, I don't know.

Jeff

I sleep very soundly when in safe and secure surrounds. When Im in less
safe surrounds..the little night watchman tucked in my backbrain keeps
track of things and wakes me as needed. Ask any old combat vet about
their night watchman.



Gunner


The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty."
Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly
save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed. " Lazarus Long