On Apr 30, 12:48*am, "Danny D." wrote:
UPDATE:

No matter how many plumbing or irrigation supply places I visited
in San Jose today, I couldn't find this simple 2.5" to 2" reducer:
*http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12814178.png
*http://flexpvc.com/cart/agora.cgi?pr...uples-Reducing

So I picked up a standard 2.5" coupling + a bushing:
*http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12814556.jpg

And I cut the 90 degree elbows off the Jandy valve:
*http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12814560.jpg

The 2.5" coupler and bushing should fit perfectly:
*http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12814562.jpg

I think I'll move the motor back and to the right a bit:
*http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12814563.jpg

I put the pump in a vise and easily spun off the inlet fitting:
*http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12814565.jpg

I'm not sure if the new bushing takes pipe dope or not?
*http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12814568.jpg

I think I bought the wrong electrical box, because the 1"-to-1/2"
elbow was connected to a one-inch conduit but I seem to have
bought a 3/4" conduit box.
*http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12814567.jpg

Tomorrow I should wire it up - but I'm confused about the following:
*http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12814564.jpg

Q1: Do we use pipe dope on the pump threads? (What kind?)

I'd use teflon tape on the threads. That's what I always use,
but I think pipe dope is OK too.

Q2: What gauge do you think the electrical wire is?

You can use 12 gauge. The wire coming out of the motor is
probably smaller than that. The pump only draws about 8
amps.


Q3: If I buy a 1" box, can I hook both pumps to the same box?

I don't know what you mean by 1" box? One that has 1" knockouts?
In any case, you can put all the wiring in one box, provided it's of
sufficient size for the number and size of conductors you're using.
The box you have looks large enough.



(i.e., two conduits in, and two conduits out, each a separate line)
Q4: How do we tie the lines together at the box (wire nuts)?

Yes.



Note: I've never done 220V wiring before.

If it were me, as I said before, I would forget about the added splice
box and just replace the short lengths of liquidtight conduit and wire
back to the timer box with new runs. IMO, it's easier, faster, looks
better, etc. You said the splices would make the motors easier
to remove in the future, but I don't see why. Those existing wires
came right off the pump motor, didn't they?

Good to see the project is going well and you didn't find any
unexpected problems....

On 4/29/2013 9:48 PM, Danny D. wrote:
UPDATE:

No matter how many plumbing or irrigation supply places I visited
in San Jose today, I couldn't find this simple 2.5" to 2" reducer:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12814178.png
http://flexpvc.com/cart/agora.cgi?pr...uples-Reducing

Did you call Ewing? It's not in their catalog but they might have it.

http://www.ewing1.com/general/ews_locationmap.html?branch=166

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 05:53:37 -0700 wrote:

Q1: Do we use pipe dope on the pump threads? (What kind?)

I'd use teflon tape on the threads. That's what I always use,
but I think pipe dope is OK too.

I have teflon tape, and these two pipe "dopes":
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12817344.jpg

- The tube says "slow setting"
- The can says "slow dry" & "soft set"

Other than the teflon tape, is there such a thing as
"non setting" pipe dope?

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 04:48:11 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

I put the pump in a vise and easily spun off the inlet fitting:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12814565.jpg


Looks like Teflon was used. The blue glue seems to be an attempt to
patch the leak.

I don't know the name off hand, but on one of my 2 " PVC pipes has a
thread end ( may come in 4 foot lengths.?)

Sample pic only:
http://www.abwplastics.co.uk/ekmps/shops/abwplastics/images/pvc-barrel-nipple-plain-bsp-threaded-741-p.jpg

Anyway, a blue silicon sealer was placed on the pipe and screwed in.

I'm not sure if the new bushing takes pipe dope or not?
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12814568.jpg

Glue the insert inside, cure and then do the pipe.

A pool supply make have a small tube of the silicon sealer I mentioned
( dang if I remember if it was called "BLUE")

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 14:34:37 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 05:53:37 -0700 wrote:

Q1: Do we use pipe dope on the pump threads? (What kind?)

I'd use teflon tape on the threads. That's what I always use,
but I think pipe dope is OK too.

I have teflon tape, and these two pipe "dopes":
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12817344.jpg

- The tube says "slow setting"
- The can says "slow dry" & "soft set"

Other than the teflon tape, is there such a thing as
"non setting" pipe dope?

I looked for the silicon sealer I mentioned above.

I found this:

http://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.630.2128/9338

"Tru-Blu Pipe Thread Sealant is a fast-dry, flexible set thread
sealant designed for high vibration environments such as refrigeration
and industrial applications. Teflon has been added to enhance thread
lubrication during assembly and break out.

Recommended for use on threaded galvanized steel, iron, brass, copper,
aluminum, stainless steel, polyethylene, fiberglass reinforced, PVC
and CPVC pipe. Great for use as a positive lock and seal on threaded
fasteners.

Gasses to 2,600 PSI; Liquids to 10,000 PSI. "

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 06:49:18 -0700 sms wrote:

Did you call Ewing? It's not in their catalog but they might have it.
http://www.ewing1.com/general/ews_locationmap.html?branch=166

Funny you should mention Ewing!

RV Cloud Plumbing Supply, apparently just around the corner from
Ewing, had recommended them yesterday; but I couldn't find their
location while driving based on RV Cloud's directions.

I ended up asking someone on the street, who directed me to Lane
Irrigation instead, apparently only a few hundred yards from
Ewing, where I ended up buying the coupling and bushing.

After reading your message just now, I called Ewing up this morning;
I talked to Paul who says that they have the exact 2.5 inch to 2 inch
coupling that I want, and, it's less than 3 bucks to boot!

Sheeesh!

Now why didn't I listen to you (and Oren) earlier!
I'll head down today to pick them up!

Note: Apparently the one-piece fitting is not "to code" (while the
two-piece coupling + bushing is); but should it matter to me
if they're to code or not?

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 07:38:14 -0700 Oren wrote:

Looks like Teflon was used.
The blue glue seems to be an attempt to
patch the leak.

You're totally right because I was the one who tried
the blue stuff a year or two ago to stop the leak.

Needless to say, it didn't work.

Interestingly, the blue PVC glue didn't really stick
at all to the (probably ABS) black pump plastic. It
flaked off easily - and you can see it didn't penetrate
to the fitting threads in this closeup photo which
was taken before I flaked cleaned it off the fitting.
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12818331.jpg

I called Sky Blue Pool Supply, who suggested "Plumbers
Silicone" at $7/tube as the pipe dope for the fitting.

Googling for what that really is, I find a confusing
array of plumbers caulk/putty/sealant/grease/silicone terms.
http://www.plumbersputtypro.com/plum...ilicone-caulk/

I called The Pool Guys, in Saratoga, but they weren't open
yet. I'll try Leslie's when they open at 10am but you never
know what you'll get from them.

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 07:48:10 -0700 Oren wrote:

I found this:
http://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.630.2128/9338
"Tru-Blu Pipe Thread Sealant is a fast-dry, flexible set
thread sealant

Thanks Oren for looking that up.
I'll see if I can get that at Home Depot this morning.

Here's what I have in stock, at the moment:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12818565.jpg

I added that white silicone glue to the pic mix after calling
Sky Blue Pools who said that they use "Plumbers Silicone Sealant"
at about $7 per tube; and after calling Ernie's Pool Supply,
who said they had two kinds, "Join Stick" and "White Silicone".

If their white silicone is the same as mine in that photo
above, I probably have enough. But I'll look at HD today for
the Tru-Blu because it seems to be the right stuff from your
description (plus, you know huckleberries!).

On Apr 30, 10:34*am, "Danny D." wrote:
On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 05:53:37 -0700 wrote:

Q1: Do we use pipe dope on the pump threads? (What kind?)

I'd use teflon tape on the threads. That's what I always use,
but I think pipe dope is OK too.

I have teflon tape, and these two pipe "dopes":
*http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12817344.jpg

- The tube says "slow setting"
- The can says "slow dry" & "soft set"

Other than the teflon tape, is there such a thing as
"non setting" pipe dope?

Regular pipe dope, the grey stuff, is what I would call non-setting.
It dries out over time, but it doesn't harden and stick like
the hardening versions of say Permatex.

I would just use teflon tape

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 05:53:37 -0700 wrote:

You said the splices would make the motors easier
to remove in the future, but I don't see why.
Those existing wires came right off the pump motor, didn't they?

The entire setup is problematic and verrrrrry frustrating!

Half the time I can't even get to the wires inside the
motor simply because the covers are frozen rusted on!
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12817431.jpg

Here you see my last 3 (failed) attempts at removing the cover!
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12818863.jpg

The other half the time, the cover comes off, but that
super frustrating 90 degree 1" to 1/2" elbow requires you to
spin the entire motor just to get the darn thing off!
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12817451.jpg

I'm running off to Home Depot now ... does this look like a
decent supply list for the electrical connections?

A. 3 feet of ½" conduit == currently it's all 1" conduit
B. A straight ½" to ½" fitting == currently it's a ½ to 3/4"
C. 3 feet of 12 AWG stranded copper wire (black, red, and green)
D. A double-wide junction box with ½" holes (mine has 3/4 inch holes)
E. Wire nuts for 23AWG stranded wire (mine are stranded of unknown AWG)

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 15:22:24 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 07:38:14 -0700 Oren wrote:

Looks like Teflon was used.
The blue glue seems to be an attempt to
patch the leak.

You're totally right because I was the one who tried
the blue stuff a year or two ago to stop the leak.


Valdalia onions are in season, Huckleberries?

Needless to say, it didn't work.


Well yes.

Interestingly, the blue PVC glue didn't really stick
at all to the (probably ABS) black pump plastic. It
flaked off easily - and you can see it didn't penetrate
to the fitting threads in this closeup photo which
was taken before I flaked cleaned it off the fitting.
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12818331.jpg


It won't STICK to all those mineral deposits, either

I called Sky Blue Pool Supply, who suggested "Plumbers
Silicone" at $7/tube as the pipe dope for the fitting.


....silicone sealer

Pliable, non-hardening or semi-hardening. Think vibration.

See my other link for Tru-Blu

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 09:08:24 -0700 Oren wrote:

It won't STICK to all those mineral deposits, either

Linking to the toilet-bowl cleaning thread, I'm actually
considering dumping the entire pump in a pool of muriatic
acid - but I'm plumb out of it at the moment.

I'll pick up four more gallons today of the HCl.

What do you think of me dumping the pool pump in it?
I don't see any metal in the pump body.

On 4/30/2013 8:00 AM, Danny D. wrote:
On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 06:49:18 -0700 sms wrote:

Did you call Ewing? It's not in their catalog but they might have it.
http://www.ewing1.com/general/ews_locationmap.html?branch=166

Funny you should mention Ewing!

RV Cloud Plumbing Supply, apparently just around the corner from
Ewing, had recommended them yesterday; but I couldn't find their
location while driving based on RV Cloud's directions.

I think you can actually see Ewing from the back of RV Cloud but getting
there is confusing.

I ended up asking someone on the street, who directed me to Lane
Irrigation instead, apparently only a few hundred yards from
Ewing, where I ended up buying the coupling and bushing.

After reading your message just now, I called Ewing up this morning;
I talked to Paul who says that they have the exact 2.5 inch to 2 inch
coupling that I want, and, it's less than 3 bucks to boot!

Sheeesh!

What's the downside of the coupling plus bushing?

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 09:20:27 -0700 SMS wrote:

What's the downside of the coupling plus bushing?

I'm thinking that it's two joints to go bad, instead of
just one.

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 15:54:53 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

If their white silicone is the same as mine in that photo
above, I probably have enough. But I'll look at HD today for
the Tru-Blu because it seems to be the right stuff from your
description (plus, you know huckleberries!).

I would not use that tube of clear silicone for the job. That is meant
as a tub and tile sealer.

The Tru-Blu stated it supports 10,000 liquid PSI. Gas at 2,600 PSI.

....fast dry, flex / pliable, non-hardening is what I would use.

On Apr 30, 12:31*pm, "Danny D." wrote:
On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 09:20:27 -0700 SMS wrote:

What's the downside of the coupling plus bushing?

I'm thinking that it's two joints to go bad, instead of
just one.

Yeah, that's true. But properly done, the probability of a
PVC joint leaking is extremely low. I can't think of a single
one I've done that has leaked. The alternative, wasting
God knows how much time looking for a fitting that
avoids one more joint doesn't seem very appealing.

On Apr 30, 12:13*pm, "Danny D." wrote:
On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 09:08:24 -0700 Oren wrote:

It won't STICK to all those mineral deposits, either

Linking to the toilet-bowl cleaning thread, I'm actually
considering dumping the entire pump in a pool of muriatic
acid - but I'm plumb out of it at the moment.

I'll pick up four more gallons today of the HCl.

What do you think of me dumping the pool pump in it?
I don't see any metal in the pump body.

I'm considering dumping you in there.....

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 09:38:57 -0700 wrote:

What do you think of me dumping the pool pump in acid?

I'm considering dumping you in there.....

I promise I'll wear gloves (nitrile!).

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 09:05:19 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

I would just use teflon tape

His photo clearly shows the fitting didn't have enough Teflon tape on
the thread - none on the end of the threads.

....betting it has leaked from shortly after install.

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 16:13:47 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 09:08:24 -0700 Oren wrote:

It won't STICK to all those mineral deposits, either

Linking to the toilet-bowl cleaning thread, I'm actually
considering dumping the entire pump in a pool of muriatic
acid - but I'm plumb out of it at the moment.

I'll pick up four more gallons today of the HCl.

What do you think of me dumping the pool pump in it?
I don't see any metal in the pump body.

You might get by with the strainer and volute - nothing else. The
motor, bearings, and impeller gets mad about it.

Use an old Windex bottle / sprayer and brush the minerals off. Rinse.

No real need to run with the dark horses today, Danny.

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 16:06:14 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Half the time I can't even get to the wires inside the
motor simply because the covers are frozen rusted on!
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12817431.jpg

Turn POWER off:

Remove the screw from the ground wire, disconnect the black wire, if
the red is attached like the black - pull it off.

Remove the lock nut of the elbow to remove the wire from the motor.

Move the pump: EXTEND the electric and bonding wire as talked about
before, here.

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 11:29:02 -0700 Oren wrote:

Move the pump: EXTEND the electric and bonding wire as
talked about before, here.

To that end, yesterday I bought the following based on that advice:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12825904.jpg

On Wed, 1 May 2013 14:09:15 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 11:29:02 -0700 Oren wrote:

Move the pump: EXTEND the electric and bonding wire as
talked about before, here.

To that end, yesterday I bought the following based on that advice:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12825904.jpg

I'm not sure about the stranded wire?

Are those wire nuts the size you need? They look small.

Bonding wire is a solid, bare copper wire. Did you get some?

On May 1, 10:33*am, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 1 May 2013 14:09:15 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."

wrote:
On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 11:29:02 -0700 Oren wrote:

Move the pump: EXTEND the electric and bonding wire as
talked about before, here.

To that end, yesterday I bought the following based on that advice:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12825904.jpg

I'm not sure about the stranded wire?

He said it's 12 gauge which is fine



Are those wire nuts the size you need? They look small.

Hard to tell from the pic. The wire size combinations they
are good for should be on the package



Bonding wire is a solid, bare copper wire. Did you get some?

I noticed that too. He needs enough to bond the motors back
to the rest of the pool metal, ie keep the existing bond system
intact. Rest of the stuff looks fine.

On another issue, he seems to be having problems removing
the 90 conduit elbow from the motor. From what he's describing,
ie having to rotate the motor to remove it, I'm wondering if instead
of being fastened with a locknut, the motor case has threads in
it and it's actually screwed into the motor case?

On Wed, 1 May 2013 07:47:43 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On May 1, 10:33*am, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 1 May 2013 14:09:15 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."

wrote:
On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 11:29:02 -0700 Oren wrote:

Move the pump: EXTEND the electric and bonding wire as
talked about before, here.

To that end, yesterday I bought the following based on that advice:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12825904.jpg

I'm not sure about the stranded wire?

He said it's 12 gauge which is fine



Are those wire nuts the size you need? They look small.

Hard to tell from the pic. The wire size combinations they
are good for should be on the package



Bonding wire is a solid, bare copper wire. Did you get some?

I noticed that too. He needs enough to bond the motors back
to the rest of the pool metal, ie keep the existing bond system
intact. Rest of the stuff looks fine.

On another issue, he seems to be having problems removing
the 90 conduit elbow from the motor. From what he's describing,
ie having to rotate the motor to remove it, I'm wondering if instead
of being fastened with a locknut, the motor case has threads in
it and it's actually screwed into the motor case?

The elbow will have the locknut in plain view if it is not threaded.
(from one of his photos with the motor end cap off, showing wires)

On May 1, 11:21*am, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 1 May 2013 07:47:43 -0700 (PDT), "





wrote:
On May 1, 10:33 am, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 1 May 2013 14:09:15 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."

wrote:
On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 11:29:02 -0700 Oren wrote:

Move the pump: EXTEND the electric and bonding wire as
talked about before, here.

To that end, yesterday I bought the following based on that advice:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12825904.jpg

I'm not sure about the stranded wire?

He said it's 12 gauge which is fine

Are those wire nuts the size you need? They look small.

Hard to tell from the pic. *The wire size combinations they
are good for should be on the package

Bonding wire is a solid, bare copper wire. Did you get some?

I noticed that too. *He needs enough to bond the motors back
to the rest of the pool metal, ie keep the existing bond system
intact. *Rest of the stuff looks fine.

On another issue, he seems to be having problems removing
the 90 conduit elbow from the motor. *From what he's describing,
ie having to rotate the motor to remove it, I'm wondering if instead
of being fastened with a locknut, the motor case has threads in
it and it's actually screwed into the motor case?

The elbow will have the locknut in plain view if it is not threaded.
(from one of his photos with the motor end cap off, showing wires)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

He's posted a lot of pics. Does that mean you've seen the nut
in the pics? I would think using a nut would be the typical
connection method, for obvious reasons. But if there is a nut,
I don't understand why he says he has to rotate the motor to
get the elbow off.

On Wed, 01 May 2013 07:33:16 -0700 Oren wrote:

I'm not sure about the stranded wire?

Thanks for doublechecking for me.

I'm not sure if I was supposed to get stranded, but, the
existing wire is apparently 10AWG stranded - so that's why
I got the same for the extension wire.

Here's a shot of the existing wires I took just now:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12826685.jpg

You'll notice that I need to cut off about 6 inches because
they're all busted up from spinning the motor and tugging
them through the tiny restriction of the 1/2 inch to 1 inch
elbow.

You'll see that the darn wires, with the connectors crimped
on, do not fit in the half-inch elbow easily - but that's
the size of the pump opening - so not much can be done
about it I guess.

Are those wire nuts the size you need?

Thanks for doublechecking as I've never done 220 volt wiring
before - and this is the largest diameter wire I've ever done.

Here's a closeup of the package I just snapped to clarify:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12826544.jpg

It "says":
20AWG to 10AWG, Medium Direct Bury Waterproof Connectors

Of course, I could have gotten just regular wire nuts;
but I figured these were better (what I really expected was
that there was some kind of bolted down connection sort of
like there is in a fuse panel).

Bonding wire ... Did you get some?

Ah, thanks for asking as I hadn't mentioned it, but,
you actually noticed it's not there.

I appreciate that you're thinking of what's to come!

Since I'm not sure where the pumps will actually end up,
I figured I'd get that solid wire last since it's not
a "functional" requirement. (Yes, I know, it's a safety
requirement - so what I'll do is clamp to the existing
bonding wire when testing or more likely - I'll run with
the dark horses & just stay a few feet away while testing.)

On Wed, 1 May 2013 08:26:00 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

He's posted a lot of pics. Does that mean you've seen the nut
in the pics? I would think using a nut would be the typical
connection method, for obvious reasons. But if there is a nut,
I don't understand why he says he has to rotate the motor to
get the elbow off.

No. I can't see the nut or even if there is one. He can look and tell
us, based on his photo:

http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/12817431/img/12817431.jpg

I does get long toothed in his threads. I must be wrong that he spun
the fitting off the strainer - one separated from the motor at the
volute.

Tell us Danny.

On Wed, 1 May 2013 15:34:52 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Wed, 01 May 2013 07:33:16 -0700 Oren wrote:

I'm not sure about the stranded wire?

Thanks for doublechecking for me.

I'm not sure if I was supposed to get stranded, but, the
existing wire is apparently 10AWG stranded - so that's why
I got the same for the extension wire.

Here's a shot of the existing wires I took just now:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12826685.jpg

You'll notice that I need to cut off about 6 inches because
they're all busted up from spinning the motor and tugging
them through the tiny restriction of the 1/2 inch to 1 inch
elbow.

You'll see that the darn wires, with the connectors crimped
on, do not fit in the half-inch elbow easily - but that's
the size of the pump opening - so not much can be done
about it I guess.

Are those wire nuts the size you need?

Thanks for doublechecking as I've never done 220 volt wiring
before - and this is the largest diameter wire I've ever done.

Here's a closeup of the package I just snapped to clarify:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12826544.jpg

It "says":
20AWG to 10AWG, Medium Direct Bury Waterproof Connectors

Of course, I could have gotten just regular wire nuts;
but I figured these were better (what I really expected was
that there was some kind of bolted down connection sort of
like there is in a fuse panel).

Bonding wire ... Did you get some?

Ah, thanks for asking as I hadn't mentioned it, but,
you actually noticed it's not there.

I appreciate that you're thinking of what's to come!

Since I'm not sure where the pumps will actually end up,
I figured I'd get that solid wire last since it's not
a "functional" requirement. (Yes, I know, it's a safety
requirement - so what I'll do is clamp to the existing
bonding wire when testing or more likely - I'll run with
the dark horses & just stay a few feet away while testing.)

What you have looks good. I mistakenly though you were going to use
stranded wire for the bonding wire. My bad

Disclaimer: I'm not an electrician.

So the conduit elbow had no locknut inside?
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/12817431/img/12817431.jpg

On Wed, 01 May 2013 07:47:43 -0700 wrote:

he seems to be having problems removing
the 90 conduit elbow from the motor. From what he's describing,
ie having to rotate the motor to remove it, I'm wondering if instead
of being fastened with a locknut, the motor case has threads in
it and it's actually screwed into the motor case?

I don't have the experience to have known to describe the difference,
in advance anyway - but what you say is exactly what's happening!

Gimme a sec to snap a photo to show what I mean, on the last
three motors that were hooked to these very same wires:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12826969.jpg

The existing 90 degree 1/2" to 1" elbow is fantastically difficult
to remove, such that the wires get all twisted and the insulation
cracked so badly that I had to put wire goop on them where they
go into the conduit (see circled area in this picture):
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12826746.jpg

So, I plan on slicing the 1" conduit a couple inches back, and
removing all the cracked wire and then putting the junction box
down at that point.

You'll also notice I bought straight-through conduit connectors
as I'm done with 90 degree elbows!

Is there a better way?

On May 1, 12:10*pm, "Danny D." wrote:
On Wed, 01 May 2013 07:47:43 -0700 wrote:

he seems to be having problems removing
the 90 conduit elbow from the motor. *From what he's describing,
ie having to rotate the motor to remove it, I'm wondering if instead
of being fastened with a locknut, the motor case has threads in
it and it's actually screwed into the motor case?

I don't have the experience to have known to describe the difference,
in advance anyway - but what you say is exactly what's happening!

Gimme a sec to snap a photo to show what I mean, on the last
three motors that were hooked to these very same wires:
*http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12826969.jpg

The existing 90 degree 1/2" to 1" elbow is fantastically difficult
to remove, such that the wires get all twisted and the insulation
cracked so badly that I had to put wire goop on them where they
go into the conduit (see circled area in this picture):
*http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12826746.jpg

That settles it. There are threads in the motor housing.
So, you're right, it makes it a PITA to remove.





So, I plan on slicing the 1" conduit a couple inches back, and
removing all the cracked wire and then putting the junction box
down at that point.

You'll also notice I bought straight-through conduit connectors
as I'm done with 90 degree elbows!

Is there a better way?

It sounds like a reaonable approach to me.

But if it were me, I'd probably get out a 1/2"+
drill, ream out those threads and use a locknut to secure
the elbow to the motor. Then I'd use a straight run of conduit
back to the timer box. But, I have those drills
In your situation, nothing wrong with what you're doing.

On Wed, 1 May 2013 16:10:26 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Wed, 01 May 2013 07:47:43 -0700 wrote:

he seems to be having problems removing
the 90 conduit elbow from the motor. From what he's describing,
ie having to rotate the motor to remove it, I'm wondering if instead
of being fastened with a locknut, the motor case has threads in
it and it's actually screwed into the motor case?

I don't have the experience to have known to describe the difference,
in advance anyway - but what you say is exactly what's happening!


The subject of the control box did come up before; about extending the
motors.

Had you disconnected wires at that box and the motors, the wire would
pull freely out of the conduit. (snip wire connectors off at the motor
side). Then turn the elbow out.

Gimme a sec to snap a photo to show what I mean, on the last
three motors that were hooked to these very same wires:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12826969.jpg

The existing 90 degree 1/2" to 1" elbow is fantastically difficult
to remove, such that the wires get all twisted and the insulation
cracked so badly that I had to put wire goop on them where they
go into the conduit (see circled area in this picture):
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12826746.jpg

So, I plan on slicing the 1" conduit a couple inches back, and
removing all the cracked wire and then putting the junction box
down at that point.

You'll also notice I bought straight-through conduit connectors
as I'm done with 90 degree elbows!

Is there a better way?

Doing a new set of wires, of proper length inside new or longer
conduit would have worked easier, imo.

My motor was moved back a distance awhile back. It got new wire and
conduit to reach. And an extended bonding wire.

On Wed, 1 May 2013 09:29:15 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On May 1, 12:10*pm, "Danny D." wrote:
On Wed, 01 May 2013 07:47:43 -0700 wrote:

he seems to be having problems removing
the 90 conduit elbow from the motor. *From what he's describing,
ie having to rotate the motor to remove it, I'm wondering if instead
of being fastened with a locknut, the motor case has threads in
it and it's actually screwed into the motor case?

I don't have the experience to have known to describe the difference,
in advance anyway - but what you say is exactly what's happening!

Gimme a sec to snap a photo to show what I mean, on the last
three motors that were hooked to these very same wires:
*http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12826969.jpg

The existing 90 degree 1/2" to 1" elbow is fantastically difficult
to remove, such that the wires get all twisted and the insulation
cracked so badly that I had to put wire goop on them where they
go into the conduit (see circled area in this picture):
*http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12826746.jpg

That settles it. There are threads in the motor housing.
So, you're right, it makes it a PITA to remove.


I now see what went on.



So, I plan on slicing the 1" conduit a couple inches back, and
removing all the cracked wire and then putting the junction box
down at that point.

You'll also notice I bought straight-through conduit connectors
as I'm done with 90 degree elbows!

Is there a better way?

It sounds like a reaonable approach to me.

But if it were me, I'd probably get out a 1/2"+
drill, ream out those threads and use a locknut to secure
the elbow to the motor. Then I'd use a straight run of conduit
back to the timer box. But, I have those drills
In your situation, nothing wrong with what you're doing.

Had he removed the wire from the control box and pull the wire out of
the conduit, the elbow *should* spin off.

Beats hell out of spinning the motor, eh?

On Wed, 01 May 2013 08:26:00 -0700 wrote:

He's posted a lot of pics. Does that mean you've seen the nut
in the pics? I would think using a nut would be the typical
connection method, for obvious reasons. But if there is a nut,
I don't understand why he says he has to rotate the motor to
get the elbow off.

It took me a while to snap the pictures for you (see below).

There is no nut.

The darn elbow drove me crazy for a total of six motors so far
(the first three are shown below):
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...0/12826969.jpg

Here's the problem:
1. You can't get the motor endcap off half the time so you
can't even disconnect the wires in the first place due to
the bolts rusting in place (why they use standard steel
bolts on outdoor motors is beyond my comprehension).

Here are four "extra" motor caps, for example, from
past motors I tried to extricate from the plumbing:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12827453.jpg

2. When you finally get the motor endcap off, and disconnect
the three 10AWG wires, you can't easily get them through
the restrictive 90 degree 1/2 to 1" elbow due to the size
of the crimped on spade & lug connectors.

Here's the filter pump with the 90 degree elbow attached:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12827455.jpg

Luckily, the spa jet pump has a straight-through fitting:
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12827457.jpg

Is there a better way than the straight through connectors
that I bought at Home Depot?

On Wed, 01 May 2013 09:38:26 -0700 Oren wrote:

The subject of the control box did come up before;
about extending the motors.

I'm actually afraid of touching the control panel.

In fact, I do need to disassemble it to find the
darn fireman switch to the heater (which is throwing
an "open fault code").

But that's for another day ...

On Wed, 01 May 2013 09:43:56 -0700 Oren wrote:

Had he removed the wire from the control box and pull the wire out of
the conduit, the elbow *should* spin off.

I'll say it bluntly that fear of the unknown is my reason.

I'm afraid of touching anything in the $$$ control box.
Someday I'll have to tackle it though, because I can't find
the darn heater fireman switch - but that's for a later day ...

By the way, the motor cleaned up instantly with the muriatic
acid. I was shocked how the deposits just frizzled away.
(muuuuch quicker than with the toilet bowl deposits!)

Here's the motor being doused with the acid (outside!).
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12827578.jpg

Notice the instantaneous action on the concrete:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12827579.jpg

Dousing with the hose washed almost all the deposits off:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12827581.jpg

On Wed, 01 May 2013 08:46:20 -0700 Oren wrote:

So the conduit elbow had no locknut inside?
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/12817431/img/12817431.jpg

Nope. It's threaded on in such a way as to make the job
of removing it downright despicable.

I apologize that I caused confusion by not posting pictures
taken earlier which showed the inside of the motor housing
better. I just didn't know enough to clarify earlier.

Here's a sequence of closeup pictures I had taken a few
days ago when I had removed the 1/2" to 1" 90 degree elbow:

1. With the endcap removed, you might be able to see that
there is no nut on the inside of the motor:
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12827812.jpg

2. This closeup might show the inside a bit better:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12827819.jpg

3. Even worse, in this picture, you can see that it's
nearly impossible to get the three crimped-connector
very stiff stranded wires out that teeeny tiny hole!
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12827820.jpg

4. The result is that I have to remove the motor to get any
room at all to spin the 90 degree elbow off:
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12827817.jpg

I curse the guys who put it together in the first place.
The good news is that the straight through connector "should"
eliminate the need to spin the motor; and the junction box
"should" allow me to remove the motor even when the endcaps
bolts rust through.

BTW, what do you suggest I put on the endcap steel bolts
so that they DON'T RUST solid?

On 5/1/2013 10:58 AM, Danny D. wrote:
On Wed, 01 May 2013 08:46:20 -0700 Oren wrote:

So the conduit elbow had no locknut inside?
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/12817431/img/12817431.jpg

Nope. It's threaded on in such a way as to make the job
of removing it downright despicable.

I apologize that I caused confusion by not posting pictures
taken earlier which showed the inside of the motor housing
better. I just didn't know enough to clarify earlier.

Here's a sequence of closeup pictures I had taken a few
days ago when I had removed the 1/2" to 1" 90 degree elbow:

1. With the endcap removed, you might be able to see that
there is no nut on the inside of the motor:
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12827812.jpg

2. This closeup might show the inside a bit better:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12827819.jpg

3. Even worse, in this picture, you can see that it's
nearly impossible to get the three crimped-connector
very stiff stranded wires out that teeeny tiny hole!
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12827820.jpg

4. The result is that I have to remove the motor to get any
room at all to spin the 90 degree elbow off:
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12827817.jpg

I curse the guys who put it together in the first place.
The good news is that the straight through connector "should"
eliminate the need to spin the motor; and the junction box
"should" allow me to remove the motor even when the endcaps
bolts rust through.

BTW, what do you suggest I put on the endcap steel bolts
so that they DON'T RUST solid?


i use anti-seize on things i want to unscrew at a later date. i've used
this on steel and brass screws and setscrews on my grinders and tile
saw, which are underwater all the time. it comes in a small tube or
bottle. you can get it at automotive stores easily.

On Wed, 1 May 2013 07:47:43 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On another issue, he seems to be having problems removing
the 90 conduit elbow from the motor. From what he's describing,
ie having to rotate the motor to remove it, I'm wondering if instead
of being fastened with a locknut, the motor case has threads in
it and it's actually screwed into the motor case?

Given the screw-in elbow at the motor.

- a best practice would be to disconnect the wires at the control box

- spin the conduit; instead of the motor

- sage comment from an elder - "looks like a monkey ****in' a
football, while he fumbles"

Sorry.

On Wed, 01 May 2013 11:17:18 -0700 chaniarts wrote:

BTW, what do you suggest I put on the endcap steel bolts
so that they DON'T RUST solid?
i use anti-seize on things i want to unscrew at a later date.

Hmmm... Lately I've been oiling them, to prevent rust,
but I hadn't thought of the anti-seize paste (which I
have a lot of from my automotive efforts).

I never thought of anti-seize as "anti rust".
But it sounds like it should work!