Jonathan Grobe wrote:

Anyone care to discuss the advantages of various lighting
methods (a bright light enough to read a book by which would
last for many, many hours) using kerosene, white gas, batteries...

Those solar powered garden lights work fine.

LED torches powered from a big gel cell battery or car battery last a long time.

Anthony Matonak wrote:
Jonathan Grobe wrote:

Anyone care to discuss the advantages of various lighting methods
(a bright light enough to read a book by which would last for
many, many hours) using kerosene, white gas, batteries...

There is a reason why people use electric lights.

Yes, convenience.

Burning things is both dangerous and smelly.

Perfectly possible to do it safely and non smelly
with what is used for gas powered camping lights.

And you can just plug a decent led torch into the car etc too.

"Frank" wrote in message
oups.com...

I did same. Generator and panel have been in place one year and used
3 times with longest outage 20 hours. It is my opinion that the power
infrastructure has been deteriorating over the years. We live in a
treed area and power company has been saving money on tree cutting.
Just about whole neighborhood has generators.

I'm served by a co-op. They are very good at trying to keep service on.
Note the *trying* becuase there service area is rural and a lot of it is
heavily forested. Even underground service can be taken out by landslides
or tree root balls lifting the cables when the tree blows over.

They mangle the trees near the main lines three times a year. They also
have a program in place to put problem causing lines underground. They rank
the sections of overhead line by the number of outages by customers affected
times hours of outage. Right now, of the 11 miles from the substation to my
house, 3 miles are underground. By the end of the year, it will be 5. 3
more miles are on the "list", but are ranked lower. The last 1 1/2 miles
probably will never be put underground due to the low number of customers in
my immediate vicinity.

"Jonathan Grobe" wrote in message
...
We just had a ice storm and I had no electricity for 22 hours. I
was mostly unprepared and didn't like the experience at all.

What are you doing to prepare for this?

Thanks.


We experience one or more "major" outages every few years. It all depends
on how severe the winter is. Some years we only have the short ones. If
the crews are not overloaded, my co-op is good at getting the power back on
within a few hours. We get both ice and wind storms that take out the
power. When the big storms hit, it's anywhere from 3 to 5 days as the norm.
The wind storms usually are a single event. The ice storms can linger,
causing repeated outages. In that case, it's normal to have 3-5 days out,
followed by a day or two of power before it goes out again.

As for the preparations: We have a 8.5kW generator. I keep at least 25
gallons of gasoline on hand in the winter. I rotate the supply through my
car so it is only a few months old at the most. In the summer, I only keep
5 to 10 gallons since it spoils faster in the heat. I recently upgraded it
with an electric start generator because the old one was too hard for DW to
start. I have it wired into the main panel outside so I can feed any
circuit if I want (it has an interlock, so no nasty flames please). My
biggest mistake was not having a propane furnace put in the house during
construction. I requested a heatpump - with our low electric rates a
heatpump is MUCH cheaper to operate. But if I spent the extra $800 to put a
propane furnace in with the heatpump I would have full backup heat when
powered by the generator. To go and replace the air handler with a propane
unit would be MUCH more expensive now. If it's not real cold, portable
electric heaters can keep the house comfortable. If it is real cold, they
can keep the house plumbing from freezing.

My backup in case the generator fails or when the house gets too cold is my
RV. I keep the propane at least 1/2 full, and I have a couple more bottles
of propane for emergency supply. No problem staying nice and warm there.

At any time, we have at least a month of food.... let alone the proceeds of
our garden, plus beef and pork that's in the shed freezers.

On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 14:11:21 +0000 (UTC), Jonathan Grobe
wrote:

Anyone care to discuss the advantages of various lighting methods
(a bright light enough to read a book by which would last for
many, many hours) using kerosene, white gas, batteries...


A decent candle-lantern with a reflector is fine to read by.
Assuming you've got tapers, and not tea-lites.
(tea lights are decorations, not a light source).

But a good kerosene lamp is easier to find.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
I'd not thought of washing laundry before the storm. But you're
right, that needs electric.

What I hate is when the power goes out mid-wash.

"Jonathan Grobe" wrote in message
...
Anyone care to discuss the advantages of various lighting methods
(a bright light enough to read a book by which would last for
many, many hours) using kerosene, white gas, batteries...


I wouldn't want a white gas lantern inside the house. The idea if it
flaring up is no fun. Propane lanterns are nice and bright.

Have you heard of kerosene mantle lamps? Aladdin is the most famous:
http://www.aladdinlamps.com
They are bright like the white gas and propane lamps, but burn kerosene.

On Feb 26, 2:27 pm, "Matthew Beasley" wrote:
"Jonathan Grobe" wrote in message

...

Anyone care to discuss the advantages of various lighting methods
(a bright light enough to read a book by which would last for
many, many hours) using kerosene, white gas, batteries...

I wouldn't want a white gas lantern inside the house. The idea if it
flaring up is no fun. Propane lanterns are nice and bright.

Have you heard of kerosene mantle lamps? Aladdin is the most famous:http://www.aladdinlamps.com
They are bright like the white gas and propane lamps, but burn kerosene.

Growing up in the country we used Coleman lanterns inside the house in
emergencies, like ice storms when the power would be out for a day or
so. We never had a flare up. I don't know if the white gas burns
cleaner than kerosene or not. I'd also be more careful in a modern
home - our house was not as airtight for sure, so the risk of CO
poisoning was lower.

I note when I go to their website today, Coleman sells kerosene mantle
lamps that look exactly like their white gas lamps did.

James

"Michael Black" wrote in message ...
"Don K" ) writes:
"Michael Black" wrote in message ...
"Steve Barker" ) writes:
Why fill the bathtub? Does a power failure cause your water to quit?

The pumps at the filtration plant stop working if the outage is bad
enough. At the very lest, it results in contaminated water.

I wonder what's in all those towers that look like giant golf balls.
If the outage is bad enough, will gravity stop working?


So you get all your water from rain?

This is not a theoretical instance.

When we had an ice storm here in 1998, which brought down some of the
long distance power lines from the hydroelectric generators (and some of
the towers that held up those lines), it was said afterwards that we
were within hours of having no water. I can't remember whether they
were talking no filtered water or no water at all, but after the fact
they did say that if that had happened, an evacuation of this large
city was a possibility.


Even so, the typical gravity storage tanks might well be adequate to maintain
supplies for the 1 or 2 day outage described in the original post.

Unless I slipped a decimal point, a 50 foot sphere would hold about a
half-million gallons of water. A 100 foot sphere would hold about
4 million gallons.

That should be adequate for a decent-sized town until somebody moves
in some big generators, starts trucking in water, or evacuating the area.

Don

I prefer the hand cranked ones - and have had 2 for many years. Carry one
of the shake type in my purse - just in case.

JonquilJan

Learn something new every day
As long as you are learning, you are living
When you stop learning, you start dying
Neon John wrote in message
news
On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 23:02:00 -0500, "JonquilJan"
wrote:

Flashlights and batteries - and also
non battery type flashlights.


I assume you meant lights such as shake or crank lights that don't
require battery replacement. Let me expand a little on that.

Shake lights (the ones you shake back and forth to charge either a
small battery or a super capacitor) are the rage now but once you try
to use one for any length of time you grow to loathe them. Shake til
yer arm goes numb for a few minutes of light.

The crank lights - lights that have a hand-cranked generator - are
much more practical. Wal-mart stocks a nice little LED crank light
that sells for under $10. It is similar to this one:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=5026270

but is rounder and longer and is un-branded ChiCom product.

I'm somewhat of a flashahaulic so I bought one just to see how it
worked. I'm impressed. Three 7mm white LEDs in the front with an
alternating switch that turns on either 1 or all three LEDs. A
minute's worth of casual cranking produces 10 minutes worth of light.
Probably closer to 20 minutes but I got bored timing it :-)

I've put one of these in each of my vehicles, by each door and in my
bedside table. This is in addition to my other more sophisticated
lights.

For my regular lights I've converted over to either HID (expensive) or
rechargeable lithium powered LED lights. This is my favorite and the
one that stays on my hip at all times.


http://www.qualitychinagoods.com/1x1...ded-p-466.html

This light uses selected Luxeon 5 watt LEDs driven to 8 watts and
powered by the 18650 lithium ion battery. This is the same battery
that is contained in most laptop batteries. It's robust, reliable and
lasts forever. For emergency use, the approx 10 year shelf life is a
major benefit, unlike NiMH batteries that quickly self-discharge.

Here are the batteries:


http://www.qualitychinagoods.com/ult...protected-p-52
4.html

This flashlight only uses one battery so the pair provides one in the
light and one in the charger. Speaking of which:


http://www.qualitychinagoods.com/dsd...er-16340186501
7670-p-265.html

is the one I use. Under $10 and comes with both 120 and 12vdc cords.
Plus it'll charge the rechargeable version of the CR123 lithium
battery.

One note of caution - This store is in Hong Kong and stuff is shipped
directly from there. They have no warranty service that I can tell,
as they quit answering email when I tried to get a bad cell replaced.
OTOH, products are so cheap from here compared to US prices that for
me it's worth the risk. There are several other Hong Kong companies
on the net selling the identical product but I don't have experience
with them.

The light that probably gets the most use is a 3 watt Luxeon LED
headlight from Amandotech.

http://www.amondotech.com/index.asp?...ROD&ProdID=872

This isn't exactly like mine, as mine is waterproof but this is what
they stock now. It uses two LIR123 rechargeable lithium ion
batteries. That charger I mentioned above will charge them.

This is a superb light. Pure white light with a very well defined
spot. It beats the socks off my miner's light with the huge belt
mounted battery in brightness and with an extra set of batteries, in
battery life.

If you need to light up the whole end of the state, look at this:

http://www.amondotech.com/index.asp?...ROD&ProdID=872

This is one of the brightest handheld lights on the market. I love
mine. It uses the same miniature High Intensity Discharge arc lamp as
is used on high end cars such as Benz and Lexus. Despite the
brightness, the battery life is very good at about 2 hours.

It comes set up to throw a long narrow beam of light. For general
close in use over a larger area, a trick is to adhere some Saran wrap
to the lens. This diffuses the beam nicely.

What all of these lights have in common for emergency situations is
that the batteries have very long shelf lives. The lithiums will hold
most of their charge for 10 years, so it's claimed. I know that I
can't tell the difference in a just-charged battery and one that's
been in the light for a year. The SLA type battery in the HID light
is known for its long charge retention - several years at minimum.
Plus the light can be plugged into its charger and left that way
indefinitely.

John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain

mm wrote:

On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:24:18 -0600, Jim Rusling
wrote:



Of course no matter how good the batteries or the design, a cordless
phone won't work in an AC power failure. The battery powers the
handset, but AC powers the "base station".

This is why God gave us wires.

That version on Sony and some of the Vtech phones would use the
battery in the base to power the base station. In my Vtech the base
battery is only good for about 4 hours.

I didn't know that. I apologize for giving bad info. I even have
three cordless vtech phones that someone at a hamfest sold me for 2
dollars (wihtout batteries) and they have the battery in the base, but
I thought it was just to keep a spare one charging for the handset.

Unfortunately only two of the base stations work and only one of the
phones, and it sounds bad. Are V-tech phones cheap that they should
sound bad? Maybe I should try to fix one of the other phones or
improve the sound on this one.

I really like my Vtech 2.4 GHZ. The base is also a speaker phone, but
not an answering machine. The range is good and the sound quality is
very good. I have had this unit for probably 4 or 5 years now.
--
Jim Rusling
More or Less Retired
Mustang, OK
http://www.rusling.org

Steve Barker wrote:
Oh, and of course they NEVER have power problems in CA. LMAO!!


for some reason this isn't including the rest of the thread ...

is beside the point.
Most parts of California don't get very cold, at least as compared to
the upper midwest. Different areas require different praparation.

We have a lot more power problems here in Hawaii than they ever had in
California, but we never got cold ...
(and our water is really gravity fed. I do keep some bottled water
around in case the filtration fails).

disaster preparedness to me includes:
- food that can be stored without refrigration and (at least in a bind)
be eaten without cooking (you propane stove doesn't help if your house
was flattened by a hurricane or earthquake, but you may still be able
to find the cans or boxes)
- enough batteries of all sizes we use
- enough tarps to cover the house (or what's left standing) including
bungee cords to secure them - as I mentioned, we don't usually get
cold here, but we can get very very wet. Wet can easily cause
hypothermia even here, and in very little time.


Maren, Hilo, HI (do you have any idea what 40"/rain in a day is like?)

Palms, Etc.: Tropical Plant Seeds - Hand-made Jewelry - Plants & Lilikoi
http://www.jach.hawaii.edu/~maren/palms_etc/
- Job's Tears/Coix Lachryma Iobi available -

On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 16:29:19 -0600, Jim Rusling
wrote:

mm wrote:

On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:24:18 -0600, Jim Rusling
wrote:
I wrote:
I didn't know that. I apologize for giving bad info. I even have
three cordless vtech phones that someone at a hamfest sold me for 2
dollars (wihtout batteries) and they have the battery in the base, but
I thought it was just to keep a spare one charging for the handset.

Unfortunately only two of the base stations work and only one of the
phones, and it sounds bad. Are V-tech phones cheap that they should
sound bad? Maybe I should try to fix one of the other phones or
improve the sound on this one.

I really like my Vtech 2.4 GHZ. The base is also a speaker phone, but
not an answering machine.

Mine too.

The range is good and the sound quality is
very good. I have had this unit for probably 4 or 5 years now.

OK. I'll give them one more shot.

On Feb 25, 12:44 pm, Jonathan Grobe wrote:
We just had a ice storm and I had no electricity for 22 hours. I
was mostly unprepared and didn't like the experience at all.

What are you doing to prepare for this?

If you are having ice storms, your first necessity is heat. I have a
few cords of dry firewood in a woodshed, and a 30-year-old Fisher
Mamma Bear. It heats the whole house nicely. There are several other
options for heat, like portable kerosene heaters, or a generator wired
up to run a furnace. Obviously, electric heat is not a good idea
during a power outage.

Your second need (some would say first) is water. Without water, your
toilet won't work. Basic sanitation is a necessity of life. If you
are on a municipal water system, you are in pretty good shape, except
in cases of earthquake. I am rural and get water from a well that
isn't reliable in the summer, so I set up a 2500 gallon cistern to
store whatever water is available. The bottom of the cistern is level
with the window sills, so during power outages it provides gravity
flow to fill the toilets. If we want a shower, we have to fire off a
generator to run the pump.

Another critical need is a survival kit. 30 days of any medication.
Gloves. Emergency ponchos and space blankets. Emergency flares and
fire lighters. Water purification tablets. Keep it in your car.
There's no guarantee that you will be able to get home immediately.
Be ready to take care of yourself wherever you are.

For food, just stock a pantry with dried and canned foods. A camp
stove will do all the cooking you need. I have a travel trailer and a
camp kitchen with a propane barbecue and 2-burner propane hot plate.
During the last big outage, I never used them. We just cooked on top
of the wood stove. Pot roast. Yum. Coffee. Pancakes. Chili.
Stew. Sloppy Joes. A manual drip coffee maker and a hand coffee
grinder are very nice. I bought the coffee grinder after being
reduced to smashing coffee beans with a claw hammer one icy morning.
As a backup, learn to make cowboy coffee.

Light is handy, particularly for winter outages. If you have pets,
locate any flames where the pets can't knock a lamp or candle over and
burn your house down. I have candle sconces and wall mount kerosene
lamps to provide light, all of which hang 6' off the floor, well above
the height of wagging doggy tails. For a porch light, I hang a
kerosene storm lantern by the front door. It's cheery.

Aladdin lamps are bright, but they burn HOT! They can't be near a
ceiling, or they will set the ceiling on fire. Around animals, they
can't be left unattended. Fluorescent lanterns put out a lot of
light, and can be found that run off of D cells.

One of my favorite lights is an LED clip-on book light, that provides
plenty of light for reading. It provides about 300 hours of light
from a couple AA batteries.

Generators are handy things. They make electricity when the delivery
guy doesn't show up. I think most people over-do the generator
thing. I don't even bother to get a generator out until the second
day of an outage. I have one generator big enough to run the electric
water heater or the well pump, but not both at once. I heat a tank of
water, turn the tank off and the pump on, and take a shower. A shower
is luxury. It sure beats a sponge bath. The big generator eats a
gallon and a quarter of gas an hour. For general electrical power, I
have a little 2-cycle 1200 watt generator that will run 4.5 hours on a
gallon of fuel. 1200 watts is plenty to run the fridge and freezer,
some lights, a computer or TV set. It's also so quiet that it doesn't
irritate me or my neighbors. I think it cost $149.

Most of the time, I just hark back to the 19th century and do without
electricity. A couple hours of electricity a day is plenty to keep
the freezer frozen and take showers. The rest of the time, my house
is snug and warm without electricity.

Other things that are handy:

A NOAA weather radio.
A GOOD battery powered radio. I have a Realistic DX-440 that is
super.
A battery powered travel alarm clock.
Battery powered carbon monoxide and smoke detectors.
Batteries. Alkaline batteries have a shelf life measured in years, so
stock up.
Lots of candles. I keep 40 or 50 on a shelf in the garage.
Lamp oil. I keep a gallon of the scentless paraffin oil handy, and
can substitute another gallon of kerosene if things get tough.
A hard wired telephone extension or two. I have a couple princess
phones that I plug in at opposite ends of the house.
A gasket kit for the generator, if you know how to repair small
engines.
Several good books you haven't read.

Kurt Ullman wrote in

..mx:

In article ,
"(PeteCresswell)" wrote:

Per Frank:
It is my opinion that the power
infrastructure has been deteriorating over the years.

Deregulation.

The primary purpose of electric utility companies is now maximizing
profit.... period.

Yep. Now repairs, etc., are underfunded because of profits, whereas
before it was underfunded because politicians did not want to tick off
their constituents so the Utility Commissions never raised rates.


and they don't overengineer to give a large tolerance for abuse,they design
for economy and low-cost.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Jonathan Grobe wrote in
:

Anyone care to discuss the advantages of various lighting methods
(a bright light enough to read a book by which would last for
many, many hours) using kerosene, white gas, batteries...

How big a battery? 8-)



battery powered fluorescents.
I've got a 2 tube camping lantern that runs for 40 hrs on one tube,20 hrs
on 2 tubes,cost is about $12 USD,uses 4 D cells.
Then I've got a brighter $10 12v single tube light that I can connect to an
external battery,like a car/scooter SLA battery or my homemade alkaline D
cell powerpack.It carries 8 AA cells internally. I used them both after
Hurricane Charlie;No power for 7 days.


There also are other models of fluorescent camping lanterns.

**you can't use kerosene or white gas lanterns indoors.**
(unless you want to asphyxiate/incinerate yourself;CO poisoning,Also a fire
hazard.)




--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

"Matthew Beasley" wrote in
:


"Jonathan Grobe" wrote in message
...
Anyone care to discuss the advantages of various lighting methods
(a bright light enough to read a book by which would last for
many, many hours) using kerosene, white gas, batteries...


I wouldn't want a white gas lantern inside the house. The idea if it
flaring up is no fun. Propane lanterns are nice and bright.

Have you heard of kerosene mantle lamps? Aladdin is the most famous:
http://www.aladdinlamps.com
They are bright like the white gas and propane lamps, but burn kerosene.




How much carbon monoxide do they generate?
CO;Silent,odorless,deadly.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Goedjn wrote in
:

On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 14:11:21 +0000 (UTC), Jonathan Grobe
wrote:

Anyone care to discuss the advantages of various lighting methods
(a bright light enough to read a book by which would last for
many, many hours) using kerosene, white gas, batteries...


A decent candle-lantern with a reflector is fine to read by.
Assuming you've got tapers, and not tea-lites.
(tea lights are decorations, not a light source).

But a good kerosene lamp is easier to find.




didn't a large part of some city burn down from a kicked-over kerosene
lamp? Chicago or SanFran..

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Neon John wrote:

"JonquilJan" wrote:


Flashlights and batteries - and also
non battery type flashlights.


[...]
The crank lights - lights that have a hand-cranked generator - are
much more practical. Wal-mart stocks a nice little LED crank light
that sells for under $10. It is similar to this one:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=5026270


The model I have also has an external power port and various adapters to
power and charge a cell phone - handy

AL

In article ,
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Edwin Pawlowski:
What type of heater that does not need power?

Gas log in the fireplace.

I have gas convection wall heaters, which use a micropile (thermocouple
in the pilot flame) to provide power for the thermostat. No fan, no
mains power required. Water heater also doesn't need mains power, so
if there's an extended outage, I'm warm and can take a nice hot shower.

Last time that happened, my co-workers with all-electric houses hated me.

"What cold shower?"


Gary

--
Gary Heston http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

"The message should go out loud and clear that we are a tolerant country
and we will not tolerate racism in this country." Tony Blair, UK PM

In article ,
lid says...
Per Frank:
It is my opinion that the power
infrastructure has been deteriorating over the years.

Deregulation.

The primary purpose of electric utility companies is now maximizing profit....
period.


"Now"? What, do you think the primary purpose was something else
in the past?

Do you think that the primary purpose of your local supermarket
is to provide you with food? Or to generate revenue for its
owners?

They are businesses, NOT charities.


--
Want Privacy?
http://www.MinistryOfPrivacy.com/

On Feb 27, 1:10 am, Usenet2...@THE-
DOMAIN-IN.SIG wrote:
In article ,
says...

Per Frank:
It is my opinion that the power
infrastructure has been deteriorating over the years.

Deregulation.

The primary purpose of electric utility companies is now maximizing profit....
period.

"Now"? What, do you think the primary purpose was something else
in the past?

Do you think that the primary purpose of your local supermarket
is to provide you with food? Or to generate revenue for its
owners?

They are businesses, NOT charities.

I have no problem with businesses and competition. Has made US great.
Do have a problem with monopolies. Would love it if I had another
choice.
Also have a problem with my State Rep. who pushed through deregulation
here at bequest of power company, retired at end of year, and is now a
lobbyest (sic) for them.

Frank

"Janet Baraclough" wrote
We normally use
those radio phones which don't work in a power cut, but the old plug-in
one does so I got that out and plugged it in.

Unless the ice/tree branch that took out the powerline took out the
phoneline too.
Its a good idea to have a cellphone too.

In article ,
Jim Yanik wrote:

Kurt Ullman wrote in

.mx:

In article ,
"(PeteCresswell)" wrote:

Per Frank:
It is my opinion that the power
infrastructure has been deteriorating over the years.

Deregulation.

The primary purpose of electric utility companies is now maximizing
profit.... period.

Yep. Now repairs, etc., are underfunded because of profits, whereas
before it was underfunded because politicians did not want to tick off
their constituents so the Utility Commissions never raised rates.


and they don't overengineer to give a large tolerance for abuse,they design
for economy and low-cost.

And part of it is that it is so hard (maybe impossible) to build new
(for instance trying to get a new big generation plant through the
bureaucracy) that you have to keep old around.

Per Jonathan Grobe:
Anyone care to discuss the advantages of various lighting methods
(a bright light enough to read a book by which would last for
many, many hours) using kerosene, white gas, batteries...


I favor LED flashlights. The one I carry in my bag will go at least 150 hours
on 4 AA cells.

My reasoning is that when we used candles/lanterns we were using technology that
we seldom used. Therefore out competence with same would have been minimal at
best. Think about somebody who only drives a car once a year..... Since the
consequences of misuse are grave with any kind of flame, it seems like battery
lights are the sensible choice for occasional short-term use.
--
PeteCresswell

wrote in message
...
In article ,
lid says...
Per Frank:

The primary purpose of electric utility companies is now maximizing
profit....
period.

You don't own a business do you?
Maximizing profit is THE purpose of owning/running any business. Well,
unless you are running a non-profit.

"(PeteCresswell)" wrote in message
...
Per Jonathan Grobe:
Anyone care to discuss the advantages of various lighting methods
(a bright light enough to read a book by which would last for
many, many hours) using kerosene, white gas, batteries...


I favor LED flashlights. The one I carry in my bag will go at least 150
hours
on 4 AA cells.

My reasoning is that when we used candles/lanterns we were using
technology that
we seldom used. Therefore out competence with same would have been
minimal at
best. Think about somebody who only drives a car once a year.....
Since the
consequences of misuse are grave with any kind of flame, it seems like
battery
lights are the sensible choice for occasional short-term use.
--
PeteCresswell

I discovered a couple of years ago during a power outage at my parents' that
the disposable chemical light sticks put out a pretty good light. I was able
to easily navigate my way around the house, use the bathroom, etc. I suspect
one could be used for reading if held close enough. Incredibly, they were
still going the next morning. They're pretty cheap, as well. I bought
several at a sporting goods store for my home.

On Feb 26, 8:11 am, Jonathan Grobe wrote:
Anyone care to discuss the advantages of various lighting methods
(a bright light enough to read a book by which would last for
many, many hours) using kerosene, white gas, batteries...

--
Jonathan Grobe Books
Browse our inventory of thousands of used books at:http://www.grobebooks.com

I like this LED lantern:

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/st...rId=1250022 6

If you set it on the table and put your book on table there's plenty
of light to read by. At max brightness it runs 40 hours on a set of D
cells, if you dim it you can leave it on for 12 *days*.


-Brian

Betsy
I can't believe I'm the only one that could learn a lot from hearing
about that experience. After six months your family must have had the
drill down pat. Can I ask that you expand on that experience because
stuff that you came to consider every day practice might well teach me a
lot.
--
Tom Horne

Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to.
We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you.

betsyb wrote:
Sissy, try 6 months on a homestead in Willow, AK. with 2 kids, 8 & 3.

Why is your fuel in drums? No wonder you find it tedious to refill your
generators tank. You can use the generators tank as a "day tank" and
install a five hundred fifty gallon underground tank for the extended
supply. That is not as expensive as you might have thought. The tanks
are available pre-encased in concrete to just drop into a hole in the
earth. Pre-encasement avoids the need for lined excavations and
monitoring wells up to a certain size which I believe is over a thousand
gallons. If you are going to keep your fuel in drums please take pity
on the firefighters who may someday respond to your home. Buy and
install drum vents; they screw into the large threaded bung; and vent
the overpressure if the drum is ever exposed to a burning fuel spill or
other fire. Also mark the building that you are storing them in with the
standard fixed location marking system from National Fire Protection
Association standard 704M. This gives the responding firefighters
warning of the presence of the large quantity of combustible liquid
before a boiling liquid expanding vapor explosion can take out the
entire response team. In suburban and rural areas those folks are often
just your neighbors who give their time to train and respond to your
emergencies. The least you can do is not maintain hidden death traps.
--
Tom Horne

Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to.
We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you.

Neon John wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 20:44:10 +0000 (UTC), Jonathan Grobe
wrote:

We just had a ice storm and I had no electricity for 22 hours. I
was mostly unprepared and didn't like the experience at all.

What are you doing to prepare for this?

Thanks.

Generator and 2 week's worth of fuel in drums. Probably another week's
worth in the diesel truck. Plenty of firewood for the fireplace
stove. I always have enough food on hand to eat for a month so that's
not an issue. The generator runs the well pump so no issue with
water.

If all else fails there is my motorhome sitting in the driveway,
always fueled and watered and ready to go. I can "dry camp" for a
couple of weeks with the on-board stores if I'm careful.

I rather enjoy power outages of up to perhaps a week. Then feedin'
the generator gets a bit tedious. I don't believe in curtailing my
lifestyle during an outage so I have a 10kw homemade diesel generator
and an 8kw commercially made gas unit as backup. Never had to use the
backup except during tests.

John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain

HeyBub wrote:
Jonathan Grobe wrote:
We just had a ice storm and I had no electricity for 22 hours. I
was mostly unprepared and didn't like the experience at all.

What are you doing to prepare for this?

Stock up on ammunition.

With enough ammunition, all other things are obtainable.


That works until the folks from whom you plan to take what you need see
you coming and shoot first or until a vengeful relative of one of your
victims bushwhacks you. Nobody is so much of a bad ass that they can
always avoid ever facing someone quicker, smarter, or luckier.
--
Tom Horne

Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to.
We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you.

A non power dependent auxiliary heating device that runs on a fuel that
you already use is a good back up. Gas wall heaters or floor furnaces
and oil fired stoves are great back ups.
--
Tom Horne

Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to.
We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you.

Dean Hoffman wrote:
In article ,
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

"Shawn Hirn" wrote in message

Heating where I live is by oil, so I don't need
power to have my heat,
What type of heater that does not need power?

My parents had a Siegler stove in the living room of their old
farmhouse. It burned kerosene. No fan. I think one just threw a bit
of wadded up newspaper in the bottom to light it.
I had a natural gas floor furnace in one house. No fan. The
thermostat ran off a thermocoupler type device, I think. It looked
like this: http://tinyurl.com/2zeweo

Dean

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Don wrote:
"Janet Baraclough" wrote
We normally use
those radio phones which don't work in a power cut, but the old plug-in
one does so I got that out and plugged it in.

Unless the ice/tree branch that took out the powerline took out the
phoneline too.
Its a good idea to have a cellphone too.

One forest fire station I worked at in the mid nineteen seventies was on
a party line. We kept a field phone attached to the line and the station
still had it's old hand crank wall phone. Many of the homes, farms, and
ranches on that line still had there old phone as well. If the line went
down to the very distant telephone central office exchange other folks
on the line could still reach us to obtain help just by throwing a
switch on the old phone and putting in a pair of D cells inside the
battery box. No one that we new of kept A cells around as they were not
needed often enough.
--
Tom Horne

Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to.
We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you.

wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

"Jonathan Grobe" wrote in message
...
We just had a ice storm and I had no electricity for 22 hours. I
was mostly unprepared and didn't like the experience at all.

What are you doing to prepare for this?

The first thing to do is to decide what you need to have (light, heat,
refrigerator, television, airconditioning...) and what you are prepared
to
pay for it.


Television? "Need"? I've never owned one.

You obviously don't have children, at least not young boys. When the
college championship basketball game is on and no one in the area has
electricity, a TV and a generator to power it is a necessity. I had the
whole neighborhood over.

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Jonathan Grobe:
Anyone care to discuss the advantages of various lighting methods
(a bright light enough to read a book by which would last for
many, many hours) using kerosene, white gas, batteries...


I favor LED flashlights. The one I carry in my bag will go at least 150 hours
on 4 AA cells.

My reasoning is that when we used candles/lanterns we were using technology that
we seldom used. Therefore out competence with same would have been minimal at
best. Think about somebody who only drives a car once a year..... Since the
consequences of misuse are grave with any kind of flame, it seems like battery
lights are the sensible choice for occasional short-term use.

Every time we have a long outage in my fire departments service area we
run a candle caused fire. In a city of only nineteen thousand souls
that is a very high rate of candle caused fires. We campaign against
the use of open flame lights during power outages because of our
experience.

That said the previous posters statement that the lack of familiarity is
what makes them dangerous rings true to me. Be advised that it heresy
for a firefighter to say this but I think that combustible liquid fueled
lanterns and solid candle lanterns could be used safely. The thing I
will argue against is bringing any flammable liquid fuel inside your
home. On that basis Kerosene is OK in a non breakable reservoir lantern
but coleman fuel, white gas, naphtha or any other fuel that will readily
ignite in it's liquid state without a wick or preheating should not be
brought inside your home. The Britelyt genuine Petromax lanterns are a
wonderful disaster preparedness light because they will burn almost any
combustible or flammable liquid from bio diesel to alcohol. Plan ahead
for the use of lanterns and have a safe place to hang them out of the
reach of children and away from common combustibles. You can also have
fixed propane and natural gas mantle lanterns anywhere you have a gas
supply.
--
Tom Horne

Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to.
We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you.

"Gary Heston" wrote in message
...

Last time that happened, my co-workers with all-electric houses hated me.

You need to update that to: all-electric houses without a generator.


"What cold shower?"

Yep, what cold shower.

Tracey wrote
wrote
lid says...
Per Frank:

The primary purpose of electric utility companies is now maximizing profit....
period.

You don't own a business do you?
Maximizing profit is THE purpose of owning/running any business.

Its never that black and white, you clearly need to
ensure that that profit isnt just a short term one too.

Well, unless you are running a non-profit.

It aint that black and white either, plenty of small
businesses are essentially buying themselves a job.

That said the previous posters statement that the lack of familiarity is
what makes them dangerous rings true to me. Be advised that it heresy
for a firefighter to say this but I think that combustible liquid fueled
lanterns and solid candle lanterns could be used safely. The thing I
will argue against is bringing any flammable liquid fuel inside your
home. On that basis Kerosene is OK in a non breakable reservoir lantern
but coleman fuel, white gas, naphtha or any other fuel that will readily
ignite in it's liquid state without a wick or preheating should not be
brought inside your home. The Britelyt genuine Petromax lanterns are a
wonderful disaster preparedness light because they will burn almost any
combustible or flammable liquid from bio diesel to alcohol. Plan ahead
for the use of lanterns and have a safe place to hang them out of the
reach of children and away from common combustibles. You can also have
fixed propane and natural gas mantle lanterns anywhere you have a gas
supply.

I agree that open candles are bad. Candle lanterns, though, I like.

For what it's worth, kerosene and most other commercial
lamp-fuels tend to continue to burn if you break the
container or knock it over. Olive oil, by contrast,
has a low-enough volitility that it will generally go out.

If you can find a lantern that will work with olive oil,
use that in preference even to kerosene.

Lard or Crisco in a metal container on a ceramic plate
plate will make a pretty good grease-lamp, If you're
caught totally unprepared.

"Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT" wrote in message
nk.net...

That said the previous posters statement that the lack of familiarity is
what makes them dangerous rings true to me. Be advised that it heresy for
a firefighter to say this but I think that combustible liquid fueled
lanterns and solid candle lanterns could be used safely.

I would recommend wall mounts for kerosene lanterns. That eliminates the
possibility of pet or child caused tip overs.

"Larry Caldwell" wrote in message
ups.com...
The big generator eats a
gallon and a quarter of gas an hour. For general electrical power, I
have a little 2-cycle 1200 watt generator that will run 4.5 hours on a
gallon of fuel. 1200 watts is plenty to run the fridge and freezer,
some lights, a computer or TV set. It's also so quiet that it doesn't
irritate me or my neighbors. I think it cost $149.

I was surprised at how much more efficient my new generator is. The old
unit was a 5.5kW splash lubricated flat head. My replacement is a 8.5kW
pressure lubricated overhead cam engine. I'm assuming the major difference
in fuel efficiency is the change from flat head to overhead valves. The old
unit burned a little over a gallon an hour at "typical" load - usually near
full load. I run a little more load on the new unit and it's burning .55
gallons per hour.