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Old July 16th 20, 01:25 AM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default What's your game changer?

"John Grossbohlin" on Wed, 15
Jul 2020 18:25:10 -0400 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
"Bob D" wrote in message
...

This may be an old topic but I am too lazy to search for it.


Do you have an item that has been a game changer for you in pursuit of
woodworking excellence. It can be something you purchased or built or
found in the trash. It can cost anywhere from free to $1000's. Please
refrain from value judgement comments like "too expensive; not worth it;
etc". To someone its worth it. I am just looking for inspiration and
ideas. Please expand on how or what you accomplished that caused you to
say "Wow, this is a real game changer".


The game changer for me was hanging around with skilled artisans. Seeing
what was possible drove me to get better.

While I had seen Norm and Roy on TV for quite some time it was working at
Colonial Williamsburg, VA in the Gunsmith Shop in the mid '80s that was a
turning point for me. While there I spent a lot of time visiting the shops
for all the various trades. The result of that is I came to understand and
appreciate that most of the world was built without electron power and that
excellent work could be done with hand tools. Before that I believed that
power tools were a necessity...


Being dedicated to doing things with hand tools (mostly because I
lack space or money for much in the way of power tools) I early on
came to an understanding why it is called wood _work_ and why power
tools were invented.. Ripping one board with a hand saw is "cool" as
an exercise. Ripping a bunch - that's why power tools were invented.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

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Old July 16th 20, 01:25 AM posted to rec.woodworking
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Eli the Bearded on Wed, 15 Jul 2020 23:13:01
+0000 (UTC) typed in rec.woodworking the following:

I love a good handtool, but I have limited space, limited money, limited
time. And no source of tools to inherit. I'm going to have to content
myself with never finding the craft Langlands admires in myself.

My projects have tended towards crude or small, eg:

https://qaz.wtf/qz/blosxom/2020/05/15/mini-drawers

But I find some satisfaction in being able to make the things I need.


It is a start. I find that while I would like to make some Fine
Furniture, mostly I'm making things I need right now. Eventually ...

Sigh, sometimes it seems that what I make most are plans.

--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
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Old July 16th 20, 06:02 AM posted to rec.woodworking
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"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
...

Being dedicated to doing things with hand tools (mostly because I
lack space or money for much in the way of power tools) I early on
came to an understanding why it is called wood _work_ and why power
tools were invented.. Ripping one board with a hand saw is "cool" as
an exercise. Ripping a bunch - that's why power tools were invented.


Yup... ripping a bunch is why I got the power feeder. It's going on the
table saw first, then the jointer, and then the shaper for the flooring
project. For the architectural trim project it will go on the table saw and
jointer... from there the wood is going through my planner/molder. I did
use a hand rip saw recently to rough out a new axe handle from ash... a
bearing failed on my bandsaw and rather than wait for the parts I did the
whole thing with hand tools. A fun little project to rehab an axe head I
got off Craigslist for $5... 3.5 lb. Michigan pattern that I turned into a
felling wedge beater for tree falling... it's plenty sharp for chopping too.


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Old July 16th 20, 06:33 AM posted to rec.woodworking
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"Eli the Bearded" wrote in message ...

I read _Craeft_ (Cræft) by Alexander Langlands last year. He attributes
the death / dying of true craft to the availability of power tools (not
just electron power, but anything more than human hand). Power removes
the connection between human and the material. He doesn't deny that
things can be made faster or well with power tools, but he does argue
that there is a loss of understanding of material that comes from the
mediating effect of just being able to apply more force faster.


I generally use the stationary tools to dimension the wood and then use the
hand tools for the joinery and final surfacing... the latter steps require
more "feel."


I love a good handtool, but I have limited space, limited money, limited
time. And no source of tools to inherit. I'm going to have to content
myself with never finding the craft Langlands admires in myself.


I used the term "inherit" loosely... Some really were inherited but many
were given to me by people who found them in their father's or
father-in-law's shop and had no interest in them. In many cases they had no
idea what they were... some are woodworking and some are machinist's tools.
A woman I worked with brought me a box of machinist tools and woodworking
tools. She was delighted when I identified things for her and assembled a
transition plane from parts in the box--the family had no idea what those
parts belonged to but managed to keep them somewhat together.

I inherited two union carpenter's tool boxes from a friend's father... they
were his and his father's. He directed his wife and daughter to give me his
tools a few days before he died... He had no one to pass them on to in the
family who would know what to do with them or would want them. The father
died at about age 86 to give you an idea how old those two tool boxes are.
The grandfather's tools were well used... a couple chisels had been
sharpened so many times that the blades were as short as an inch... handsaws
came to points. There were however very nice specimens of a Stanley router
plane, Stanley No 6 for plane, a wooden scrub plane and a couple block
planes in the grandfather's box along with a sliding bevel, folding rules,
and other layout tools. The father's tool box had braces, a complete set of
auger bits, compass bits, screwdriver bits, reamer bits, etc.

When I bought this house there was a Stanley No 45 combination plane
complete with a set of cutters, the original steel box, instruction manual,
nicker package, etc. in the garage. The cutters had never been sharpened...
It was essentially a new tool.

The vast majority of these tools took a trip through my electrolysis set up
to remove corrosion. In some cases the tools simply needed to be cleaned of
"dirt" and sharpened. In other cases just sharpening was needed... i.e., the
45.

All that said, I'd let people know you are interested in old tools to use.
You are not a collector and aren't looking to sell them... You may be
surprised how much stuff will come out of basements and garages for free.


My projects have tended towards crude or small, eg:


https://qaz.wtf/qz/blosxom/2020/05/15/mini-drawers


But I find some satisfaction in being able to make the things I need.


We all started somewhere... I don't know anyone who came out of the womb as
a skilled woodworker! Keep at it!

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Old July 16th 20, 07:59 AM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default What's your game changer?

In rec.woodworking,
John Grossbohlin wrote:
"Eli the Bearded" wrote in message ...
I love a good handtool, but I have limited space, limited money, limited
time. And no source of tools to inherit. I'm going to have to content
myself with never finding the craft Langlands admires in myself.

I used the term "inherit" loosely...


I suspected as much.

All that said, I'd let people know you are interested in old tools to use.
You are not a collector and aren't looking to sell them... You may be
surprised how much stuff will come out of basements and garages for free.


Best I've gotten for free, so far, is a bench grinder in nearly new
condition. Probably ten years old, definitely under twenty. Only thing
"wrong" with it was missing a bulb for the work light. It was literally
being thrown away -- probably not because of the bulb though.

I live in San Francisco, in a house that's been in my wife's family for
long time. None of my neighbors seem to own as much as a hammer. People
in the city lack basements and attics and get rid of things quickly. My
father-in-law did leave some tools here, but not many or that exciting.
Screwdrivers and wrenches. A miter box and saw.

We all started somewhere... I don't know anyone who came out of the womb as
a skilled woodworker! Keep at it!


I don't have good photos of it, but I made my bedside table as well. I
wanted something fairly tall and narrow to fit the space, and clipped
the corners of the top (making an octagon) for lamp and charging cords
to fig nicely. Also plywood with dado cuts for pieces to snap together
(at least until the glue dries), but half inch, not 3mm.

On the large scale, I built a shed for myself, roughly 8x8x10. No
foundation or power, just balanced on concrete blocks, because that
makes it kinda-sorta within no-permit-needed building code for the
area. It keeps the rain out and is solid still ten years later, so I
think I did an okay job with no experience and making it up as I went
along.

Elijah
------
did have to replace the first roof, learned a lesson there


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Old July 17th 20, 06:01 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default What's your game changer?

"John Grossbohlin" on Thu, 16
Jul 2020 01:02:47 -0400 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
.. .

Being dedicated to doing things with hand tools (mostly because I
lack space or money for much in the way of power tools) I early on
came to an understanding why it is called wood _work_ and why power
tools were invented.. Ripping one board with a hand saw is "cool" as
an exercise. Ripping a bunch - that's why power tools were invented.


Yup... ripping a bunch is why I got the power feeder.


B-)

Power tools as "apprentice" - "you, feed these boards into the
saw."

But as I said when I started tech school, and we shifted from
manual machines to CNC "think of it as a really dumb apprentice who
does exactly what he's told, even if it is wrong."
(I had a 'neat' modern art piece resulting from some one making a
lateral move and a downward one, and it plowed into the aluminum block
a ways before breaking the tool off.)


--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
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Old July 17th 20, 06:49 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default What's your game changer?

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
...

Power tools as "apprentice" - "you, feed these boards into the
saw."


But as I said when I started tech school, and we shifted from
manual machines to CNC "think of it as a really dumb apprentice who
does exactly what he's told, even if it is wrong."


My father served an apprenticeship as a tool a die maker early in his
career. Now 86 he still talks about how they gave the apprentices a block of
steel and told them to file it into a square cube... When I worked in the
Gunsmith Shop at Williamsburg the litmus test for whether they spent any
time on you was whether you could make wood screws with files... If you
couldn't do that there was no way you'd ever be able to make a flintlock.
Windows and Mac operating systems have let pretty much anybody use a
computer. Cars, houses, guns, etc... the skill knowledge is being
concentrated by a small number of companies who will generate an income
stream by letting others license the technology.


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Old July 18th 20, 01:39 AM posted to rec.woodworking
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"John Grossbohlin" on Fri, 17
Jul 2020 13:49:12 -0400 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
.. .

Power tools as "apprentice" - "you, feed these boards into the
saw."


But as I said when I started tech school, and we shifted from
manual machines to CNC "think of it as a really dumb apprentice who
does exactly what he's told, even if it is wrong."


My father served an apprenticeship as a tool a die maker early in his
career. Now 86 he still talks about how they gave the apprentices a block of
steel and told them to file it into a square cube...


I've heard that a lot. Royce machinist could make a hex head free
hand with a file, etc.

When I worked in the
Gunsmith Shop at Williamsburg the litmus test for whether they spent any
time on you was whether you could make wood screws with files...


Not sure how that would be done, but, I've never tried.

If you
couldn't do that there was no way you'd ever be able to make a flintlock.
Windows and Mac operating systems have let pretty much anybody use a
computer. Cars, houses, guns, etc... the skill knowledge is being
concentrated by a small number of companies who will generate an income
stream by letting others license the technology.


The skills are being built into the machine. Been saying that
since the first mechanized widgets.


tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
We didn't have these sorts of problems when I was a boy,
back when snakes wore shoes and dirt was $2 a pound,
if you could find it. We had to make our own from rocks!
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Old July 18th 20, 06:23 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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On Sunday, July 12, 2020 at 4:19:27 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
On 7/12/2020 11:18 AM, Bob D wrote:
This may be an old topic but I am too lazy to search for it.

Do you have an item that has been a game changer for you in pursuit of woodworking excellence. It can be something you purchased or built or found in the trash. It can cost anywhere from free to $1000's. Please refrain from value judgement comments like "too expensive; not worth it; etc". To someone its worth it. I am just looking for inspiration and ideas. Please expand on how or what you accomplished that caused you to say "Wow, this is a real game changer".

I will start it off with some game changers for me.

1. self centering drill bit - I was trying to mount a piano hinge and each screw seemed to try to pull it out of alignment. I bought the bit and re-drilled all the holes. the installation was perfectly aligned and all the screws centered and flush.
2. Sawstop industrial saw - I cannot even begin to express the magic of a great tablesaw.
3. Festool RO sander with dust extractor - sanding without dust. I didn't even know this was possible. Prompted by Leon "Bob, you gotta buy one of these"
4. Veritas saddle square - easy transfer of marks around the sides of a piece.

Bob

Somewhat parallel, but since am older than most redwoods, the Powermatic
Model 66...every bit the saw of SS in mass, balance, etc., but w/o the
then 35 year in the future safety features.

Mine was more mind set of waiting until could afford the better product
before purchase if of significant outlay rather than try to "cheap out".

Was, of course, fortunate in having access to friend's commercial shop
for things like planer and all...of course in keeping with above, there
weren't any lunchbox planers for nearly 30 year from then, either...it
was "real iron" or the hand plane or take it to somebody who had a
planer then.

--

I am in full agreement with your view of the PM66. The sawstop industrial saw was the closest i could get to a pm66 with sawstop safety features.
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Old July 18th 20, 06:35 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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On Sunday, July 12, 2020 at 9:05:51 PM UTC-5, Puckdropper wrote:
Bob D wrote in
:
This may be an old topic but I am too lazy to search for it.

Do you have an item that has been a game changer for you in pursuit of
woodworking excellence. It can be something you purchased or built or
found in the trash. It can cost anywhere from free to $1000's. Please
refrain from value judgement comments like "too expensive; not worth
it; etc". To someone its worth it. I am just looking for inspiration
and ideas. Please expand on how or what you accomplished that caused
you to say "Wow, this is a real game changer".

I will start it off with some game changers for me.

1. self centering drill bit - I was trying to mount a piano hinge and
each screw seemed to try to pull it out of alignment. I bought the bit
and re-drilled all the holes. the installation was perfectly aligned
and all the screws centered and flush. 2. Sawstop industrial saw - I
cannot even begin to express the magic of a great tablesaw. 3. Festool
RO sander with dust extractor - sanding without dust. I didn't even
know this was possible. Prompted by Leon "Bob, you gotta buy one of
these" 4. Veritas saddle square - easy transfer of marks around the
sides of a piece.

Bob

I have a grinder tool rest that clamps the tool in place then you can
slide it along the rest. This produces a very consistent hollow ground
edge. A few passes on a stone and you get an edge that's sharp and easy
to take care of.

The Work Sharp is very nice, but some good stones and the grinder tool
rest (and grinder, of course) is what I'd invest in if I was starting
over.

Puckdropper

I think I have one of those tool rests (made by Veritas). I used it with a hand turned grinder for sharpening and it worked well, but I got tired of turning the crank and manipulating the blade to be sharpened. I've thought about getting a Jet variable frequency control grinder. What kind of grinder are you using with your setup? My current 3600 RPM grinder is too fast for sharpening. I have a worksharp but its painstakingly slow for initial shaping of a blade.

Bob


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