With winter immanent, I'm looking at putting some heating in my shop
so I can work and not freeze. I've heard people say that any
kind of open flame heating is dangerous because it could ignite saw
dust--I've heard others say this is rubbish.

Could people share their opinions and advice? Is an open
flame heater dangerous? What type of heating do you use?
Any recommendations to heat my shop: it's about 20x20
with a 12 foot ceiling.

Thanks,
Dave.

I use a small karosene heater and keep it on a bench near the overhead door,
also prop up a small fan behind it to circulate the air and a coffee can of
water on top of it. I'm in a 12X18 uninsulated shop and haven't had any
problems with it. I also have a electric heater that's mounted to the
ceiling over the bench. I use it when I first go in the shop till the
karosene heater warms the shop up and also put it on low if I have some
finish drying.
Mike S.

"Dave Rathnow" wrote in message
news:OZ3Xc.55635$X12.38428@edtnps84...

With winter immanent, I'm looking at putting some heating in my shop
so I can work and not freeze. I've heard people say that any
kind of open flame heating is dangerous because it could ignite saw
dust--I've heard others say this is rubbish.

Could people share their opinions and advice? Is an open
flame heater dangerous? What type of heating do you use?
Any recommendations to heat my shop: it's about 20x20
with a 12 foot ceiling.

Thanks,
Dave.

I have been heating a three car garage/shop with a 24K BTU kerosene heater
for years but it demands attention and discipline.

1) Heater is always kept away from work (ie. Heater is usually in bay 1
while work is done in bay 3, some assembly in 2.
2) Heater is cleaned regularly and kept clean.
3) Fuel and flammable materials are kept completely away from heater
4) Any time finishing is done with flammable substances, the heater is
turned off.
5) I keep the shop cleaner during the winter (sawdust, etc) when using the
heater.

I do supplement the kero heater with a small quartz heater that puts out a
surprising amout of heat.

I have a permanent shop building in the plans and I hope to heat it with a
recycled forced air furnace. I have done this before in a shop and it works
well and is fairly economical. My previous installation was raised off of
the shop floor about 1-1/2 feet which put the firebox about 3-4 feet off of
the floor. These used units are available through salvage building material
dealers or heating contractors. I paid $25 for my down-draft unit and just
let it blow out on the floor of my small shop. My cousin did a similar
thing with an updraft unit that he uses to heat a 1,200 sq ft shop. He put
a simple two-directional plenum on top and it does great - think he paid
about $100 for his. He used a similar lift to get the machine up off of his
floor.


"Dave Rathnow" wrote in message
news:OZ3Xc.55635$X12.38428@edtnps84...

With winter immanent, I'm looking at putting some heating in my shop
so I can work and not freeze. I've heard people say that any
kind of open flame heating is dangerous because it could ignite saw
dust--I've heard others say this is rubbish.

Could people share their opinions and advice? Is an open
flame heater dangerous? What type of heating do you use?
Any recommendations to heat my shop: it's about 20x20
with a 12 foot ceiling.

Thanks,
Dave.

"Dave Rathnow" wrote in
news:OZ3Xc.55635$X12.38428@edtnps84:


With winter immanent, I'm looking at putting some heating in my shop
so I can work and not freeze. I've heard people say that any
kind of open flame heating is dangerous because it could ignite saw
dust--I've heard others say this is rubbish.

Could people share their opinions and advice? Is an open
flame heater dangerous? What type of heating do you use?
Any recommendations to heat my shop: it's about 20x20
with a 12 foot ceiling.

Thanks,
Dave.

I'm less concerned with dust explosions than I am about the various oils,
solvents and finishes I store and use regularly.

A little more detail about your shop environment, your location and your
requirements would help us give you all the opinion, misinformation and
conjecture for which USENET is famous. ;-)

Patriarch

Dave Rathnow asks:


With winter immanent, I'm looking at putting some heating in my shop
so I can work and not freeze. I've heard people say that any
kind of open flame heating is dangerous because it could ignite saw
dust--I've heard others say this is rubbish.

Could people share their opinions and advice? Is an open
flame heater dangerous? What type of heating do you use?
Any recommendations to heat my shop: it's about 20x20
with a 12 foot ceiling.


Open flame can be worked with...I've got a good friend who has been heating his
shop with wood for over a decade. It requires specific care with finishing in
the winter, but otherwise is fine. I know a local pro who heats with wood, too,
but the stove is isolated, in the basement, and not a problem with fumes and
dust.

I've used propane catalytic heaters for mine. They work well, but are expensive
as all get out...tendency to burn a full 20# tank of propane per day in cold
weather is not good. The cost of the stuff is way up...last time I used it, I
paid $9 and that was 3 or 4 years ago.

Currently, I've got an electric furnace almost hooked up. IF you have the wire
capacity, it's a good way to go. Mine's in the shop "attic." I'm lazing my way
into hooking up the 60 amp breaker one day soon...when it drops under 80,
probably. Cost? Zip. Got it when it was removed from a house for a new type of
furnace. Check with local HVAC people. Other sources: mobile home supply
houses. They often have small, surplus electric furnaces.

While I use kerosene to clean some tools, I do not like the stench, and have
been through the kero heating mill. No more. Stinks. Requires care both because
of the open flame and the fact that output heat losses are high if you don't
keep the heater extra clean.

Charlie Self
"A judge is a law student who marks his own examination papers." H. L. Mencken

"Dave Rathnow" wrote in message
news:OZ3Xc.55635$X12.38428@edtnps84...

With winter immanent, I'm looking at putting some heating in my shop
so I can work and not freeze. I've heard people say that any
kind of open flame heating is dangerous because it could ignite saw
dust--I've heard others say this is rubbish.

Could people share their opinions and advice? Is an open
flame heater dangerous? What type of heating do you use?
Any recommendations to heat my shop: it's about 20x20
with a 12 foot ceiling.

Thanks,
Dave.

Dave - it's pure hogwash. Thousands of woodworkers both professional and
non have burned firewood in their shops since forever. There has indeed
been a great deal of discussion surrounding this and in fact a great deal of
real fact. In the end, you won't be able to create the type of air/fuel
density necessary for combustion with your shop tools. You can do a google
search and find the reports of exactly what particulate count and what size
the particulates have to be in order to support combustion if you choose,
but you'll find that you really can't create that environment.

I use an open pilot propane furnace in my garage. It's a forced air unit
and if anything was going to stir the air up, this thing would be the
ticket. I do woodworking, autobody repair and painting, and I even hang a
deer or two or three a year in there, and well, here I am writing to you, so
it can't be all that bad. My garage is 26x36 with 9 foot ceilings and I
have a big furnace - maybe bigger than I need but it was free. Don't know
the btu rating but you could ask just about any HVAC guy and he can tell you
what you'll need in a heartbeat. I'm up in Central NY and the winters here
are long and cold, but my furnace warms the garage in minutes even on the
worst day.

--

-Mike-

Dave:
I forgot to mention one VERY important thing. I don't care how good of a
buddy your insurance agent might be - DON'T LET HIM/HER KNOW!!

Woodworkers have been moving toward the lower reaches of the insurance
company client appreciation scale. Don't need to provide powder. They tend
to react negatively to a lot of things they don't understand.



"RonB" wrote in message
news:Oi4Xc.2287$gl.1937@okepread07...
I have been heating a three car garage/shop with a 24K BTU kerosene heater
for years but it demands attention and discipline.

1) Heater is always kept away from work (ie. Heater is usually in bay 1
while work is done in bay 3, some assembly in 2.
2) Heater is cleaned regularly and kept clean.
3) Fuel and flammable materials are kept completely away from heater
4) Any time finishing is done with flammable substances, the heater is
turned off.
5) I keep the shop cleaner during the winter (sawdust, etc) when using the
heater.

I do supplement the kero heater with a small quartz heater that puts out a
surprising amout of heat.

I have a permanent shop building in the plans and I hope to heat it with a
recycled forced air furnace. I have done this before in a shop and it
works
well and is fairly economical. My previous installation was raised off of
the shop floor about 1-1/2 feet which put the firebox about 3-4 feet off
of
the floor. These used units are available through salvage building
material
dealers or heating contractors. I paid $25 for my down-draft unit and
just
let it blow out on the floor of my small shop. My cousin did a similar
thing with an updraft unit that he uses to heat a 1,200 sq ft shop. He
put
a simple two-directional plenum on top and it does great - think he paid
about $100 for his. He used a similar lift to get the machine up off of
his
floor.

otforme (Charlie Self) wrote in
:

snippage
I've used propane catalytic heaters for mine. They work well, but are
expensive as all get out...tendency to burn a full 20# tank of propane
per day in cold weather is not good. The cost of the stuff is way
up...last time I used it, I paid $9 and that was 3 or 4 years ago.


Just a note: I refilled two gas grill bottles Monday at $2.19/unit, 7.7
units. (I don't recall if it was gallons or pounds.) About $18 & change.
In California. At ACE Hardware.

Patriarch

Lee Valley offers an interesting Quartz Overhead Radiant Heater:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...,43 456,43465

I salvaged a woodburning fireplace insert from a job that was never used.
It came complete with flue, flashing and cap. I've used it several winters
to heat the shop (24'x22' insulated) without problems. I am just careful to
clean the sawdust off the floor often. Takes about 1 hour to get a good
fire rolling and get it warm in there. I just love going out into the shop
on a snowy morning and building a fire-- who'd thought a woodshop could be
"cozy". On especially cold days i also use a kero heater. These type of
heaters will give off soot and odors when the wick needs replaced, otherwise
they work well. If you decide on a wood burner i would strongly suggest
getting a fan kit with it. Furthermore, if you need to buy wood, call BEFORE
it gets cold, prices are usually better. I go through about 2 cords per
season in the shop which amounts to about $150 split and delivered. (the
guy gives me a little deal 'cuz i refer his services to my own customers).
Keep in mind, you should also have plenty of endcuts to use for
indling. --dave



"Dave Rathnow" wrote in message
news:OZ3Xc.55635$X12.38428@edtnps84...

With winter immanent, I'm looking at putting some heating in my shop
so I can work and not freeze. I've heard people say that any
kind of open flame heating is dangerous because it could ignite saw
dust--I've heard others say this is rubbish.

Could people share their opinions and advice? Is an open
flame heater dangerous? What type of heating do you use?
Any recommendations to heat my shop: it's about 20x20
with a 12 foot ceiling.

Thanks,
Dave.

I have had two shops and have heated both with small direct vent gas
furnaces. There is no open flame so there's no risk of an explosion. The
furnace draws and exhausts air directly to and from the outside and the air
is heated in an enclosed chamber.

They're hassle-free and you have the benefit of a thermostat. I turn it down
to 50 when I'm not using it and up to 65 when I'm in the shop so the shop is
heated to some degree all winter which I like. Only takes about 15 minutes
to bring it up to working temp. My current shop is 22 x 26 and well
insulated and doesn't take much to heat. Cost for the furnace was about $700
and they are easy to install yourself. You just need a gas line to tap into
and an outside wall.

"Dave Rathnow" wrote in message
news:OZ3Xc.55635$X12.38428@edtnps84...

With winter immanent, I'm looking at putting some heating in my shop
so I can work and not freeze. I've heard people say that any
kind of open flame heating is dangerous because it could ignite saw
dust--I've heard others say this is rubbish.

Could people share their opinions and advice? Is an open
flame heater dangerous? What type of heating do you use?
Any recommendations to heat my shop: it's about 20x20
with a 12 foot ceiling.

Thanks,
Dave.

The heater Frank mentiioned with the link to Lee Valley is the one I
mentioned in a earlier post that I have over my bench. It puts out a lot of
heat.

--
Mike S.

http://members.tripod.com/n0yii/woodworking.htm
"Frank" wrote in message
. ..
Lee Valley offers an interesting Quartz Overhead Radiant Heater:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...,43 456,43465

RonB writes:

Dave:
I forgot to mention one VERY important thing. I don't care how good of a
buddy your insurance agent might be - DON'T LET HIM/HER KNOW!!

Woodworkers have been moving toward the lower reaches of the insurance
company client appreciation scale. Don't need to provide powder. They tend
to react negatively to a lot of things they don't understand.

Don't let him/her know what? What kind of heat he's using? Not a good idea. If
something goes wrong and there is a fire, whoops! Lots of difficulties over the
coverage.

Charlie Self
"A judge is a law student who marks his own examination papers." H. L. Mencken

Dave,

An open flame heater is not dangerous as long as you respect the
fact that whatever you are doing in the garage may have the potential
to put that garage into orbit ;-)

Basically what I am saying is just use your head when you have an
open flame. You can rip, cut, saw and plane all you like as long as
you keep the sawdust piles cleaned up and not near your heater. I
have never heard of sawdust in the air exploding like gasoline fumes.

Don't have a messy shop with piles of sawdust all over the place.
Get youself a couple of STEEL garbage can's and when you clean up your
sawdust keep it outside in those can's. The reason for the steel
can's is that if you ever happen to get smouldering embers in the
sawdust, it won't melt the can if it does start on fire. And make
sure you keep it outside, if anything does go wrong and you have a
fire, it's not inside your garage. Same goes for shop rags etc. that
you may use for refinishing. Put them in a steel container when
finished with them and don't keep em inside your shop. Spontaneous
combustion is well known to happen to solvent soaked rags, you don't
even need an open flame for them to go up !

Now as for what I heat my shop with.... well I have used 4 different
types of heat. In my old shop I used one of those propane
construction heaters, and like Charlie says, they are hard on
propane.... until I discovered one thing. Put a fan behind the
heater. It was amazing how low I could turn the flame on the heater
once I put a fan behind it. Only thing I then had to worry about was
to keep a door cracked to make sure the shop got adequate oxygen. I
didn't need to kill myself from carbon monoxide poisoning. The other
problem I found was that the shop smelled of burned propane then, it
wasn't bad, but not pleasant either.

Once I moved to my new place I got myself a little bigger shop. Now
I have one about the same size as you, 22'x 22'. I used the propane
heater for a while and it worked great, but then I decided to give a
buddy's kerosene heater a try. It worked fine, but I hate the smell
of burned kerosene so I didn't use that very long.

Then my father built himself a new house, and I inherited his old
wood stove. I installed that, and it worked wonderfully except for
one thing. When I wanted to paint something I had to go back to the
propane heater only. I didn't want to run the risk of having the
woodstove cause an explosion. I couldn't just turn the woodstove off
and on easily like the propane heater. Even when you think there's no
embers in the woodstove, you don't need to take that chance.

I worked like that for a couple of years. Using the propane heater
when painting so I could turn it off to paint, then back on after I
got the shop cleared of paint fumes etc. ( And I do mean WELL cleared
of FUMES )

Two years ago I had an HVAC buddy give me a natural gas furnace out
of someone's house. I installed that ( in a room outside of the
garage walls ) so the furnace was isolated from the shop and all paint
fumes etc. So now I use the furnace in conjunction with the
woodstove. But I still make sure the furnace is off when painting, I
respect the fact that I can't outrun and explosion like they do in
movies ;-)

The furnace is used mainly to keep the garage at a constant temp. or
if I am just going out there for a couple of hours. The woodstove is
used when I am going to be out in the garage for a while and to save
me from really high natural gas bills ;-) Plus it gives me a place to
make my mistakes disappear.

Hope this helps.... just make sure whatever you use to heat with
that you work safely around it. You only have one shot to get it
right, mistakes with flames can be deadly.

Todd

PS: If you install a wood stove make sure your insurance company
knows about it, otherwise if you have a fire they WILL NOT cover your
losses. Plus they will insist on having it inspected, which makes
sure that you installed it properly.... good for your peace of mind
too.



"Dave Rathnow" wrote in message news:OZ3Xc.55635$X12.38428@edtnps84...
With winter immanent, I'm looking at putting some heating in my shop
so I can work and not freeze. I've heard people say that any
kind of open flame heating is dangerous because it could ignite saw
dust--I've heard others say this is rubbish.

Could people share their opinions and advice? Is an open
flame heater dangerous? What type of heating do you use?
Any recommendations to heat my shop: it's about 20x20
with a 12 foot ceiling.

Thanks,
Dave.

patriarch wrote:

Just a note: I refilled two gas grill bottles Monday at $2.19/unit, 7.7
units. (I don't recall if it was gallons or pounds.) About $18 & change.
In California. At ACE Hardware.

Patriarch

I just bought 2 new 5gal containers last night at Sam's Club ($19ea) as
they refused to fill my old ones, too old - gotta make a buck in the
market againsigh. Then took the new ones to a Chevron station nearby
to fill them, $2.13/gal, plus tax, almost $23 for both. Sure glad I
don't own one of the old smelly super inefficient always freezes up in
the winter propane vehicles.

As for a shop heater, my son had one that screwed onto a propane bottle.
The screen mechanism on the unit broke and the flame was uneven and
popped all the time. Unsafe so we scrapped the entire unit. I'm
uncomfortable myself with an open flame of that type in a small wood
shop, plus the carbon monoxide etc so I use an electric radiant heater
mounted to the ceiling joists.

Grandpa John

No - I'm just saying don't call the agent and volunteer the info.
"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
RonB writes:

Dave:
I forgot to mention one VERY important thing. I don't care how good of a
buddy your insurance agent might be - DON'T LET HIM/HER KNOW!!

Woodworkers have been moving toward the lower reaches of the insurance
company client appreciation scale. Don't need to provide powder. They
tend
to react negatively to a lot of things they don't understand.

Don't let him/her know what? What kind of heat he's using? Not a good
idea. If
something goes wrong and there is a fire, whoops! Lots of difficulties
over the
coverage.

Charlie Self
"A judge is a law student who marks his own examination papers." H. L.
Mencken

"Dave Rathnow" wrote in message
news:OZ3Xc.55635$X12.38428@edtnps84...

With winter immanent, I'm looking at putting some heating in my shop
so I can work and not freeze. I've heard people say that any
kind of open flame heating is dangerous because it could ignite saw
dust--I've heard others say this is rubbish.

Could people share their opinions and advice? Is an open
flame heater dangerous? What type of heating do you use?
Any recommendations to heat my shop: it's about 20x20
with a 12 foot ceiling.

Thanks,
Dave.

If your shop is free standing and you have either natural gas or propane
available in your area, I'd recommend a gas fired Modine (or modine-type)
heater. The unit would hang from the ceiling above the work area, is fan
assisted, and can usually be hooked up to a thermostat. My first choice for
a shop where comfort is not top priority.

A local Plumbing/Heating contractor would be happy to help ;-) I bet the
following link has some more stuff about it, but I'm too tired right now to
look at it myself:

http://modine.com/english/index2.php...lev1=10&lev2=5

Mike Marlow wrote:


"Dave Rathnow" wrote in message
news:OZ3Xc.55635$X12.38428@edtnps84...

With winter immanent, I'm looking at putting some heating in my shop
so I can work and not freeze. I've heard people say that any
kind of open flame heating is dangerous because it could ignite saw
dust--I've heard others say this is rubbish.

Could people share their opinions and advice? Is an open
flame heater dangerous? What type of heating do you use?
Any recommendations to heat my shop: it's about 20x20
with a 12 foot ceiling.

Thanks,
Dave.

Dave - it's pure hogwash. Thousands of woodworkers both professional and
non have burned firewood in their shops since forever. There has indeed
been a great deal of discussion surrounding this and in fact a great deal
of
real fact. In the end, you won't be able to create the type of air/fuel
density necessary for combustion with your shop tools. You can do a
google search and find the reports of exactly what particulate count and
what size the particulates have to be in order to support combustion if
you choose, but you'll find that you really can't create that environment.

Maybe _you_ can't create a pile of sawdust, but if so you are the only
woodworker in the world who is so blessed.

One does not need airborne particulates to have a fire you know.

I use an open pilot propane furnace in my garage. It's a forced air unit
and if anything was going to stir the air up, this thing would be the
ticket. I do woodworking, autobody repair and painting, and I even hang a
deer or two or three a year in there, and well, here I am writing to you,
so
it can't be all that bad. My garage is 26x36 with 9 foot ceilings and I
have a big furnace - maybe bigger than I need but it was free. Don't know
the btu rating but you could ask just about any HVAC guy and he can tell
you
what you'll need in a heartbeat. I'm up in Central NY and the winters
here are long and cold, but my furnace warms the garage in minutes even on
the worst day.


--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

I'm not sure if I understand the question completely. When you say open
flame are you referring to the various heaters with an actual flame
that's exposed only, or are you referring to woodstoves also?

I don't see a problem with woodstoves--we've used one for my whole life,
my father's entire life, my grandfather's entire life, his father's
entire life..do I need to go on?

Plus you've got a great place to dispose of cutoffs and sawdust.


Dave Rathnow wrote:
With winter immanent, I'm looking at putting some heating in my shop
so I can work and not freeze. I've heard people say that any
kind of open flame heating is dangerous because it could ignite saw
dust--I've heard others say this is rubbish.

Could people share their opinions and advice? Is an open
flame heater dangerous? What type of heating do you use?
Any recommendations to heat my shop: it's about 20x20
with a 12 foot ceiling.

Thanks,
Dave.

"patriarch astDOTnet"

Just a note: I refilled two gas grill bottles Monday at $2.19/unit, 7.7
units. (I don't recall if it was gallons or pounds.) About $18 & change.
In California. At ACE Hardware.

If that is for both, not a bad price. Tonight I filled mine at BJ's for
$7.49. Non member price is $12+

In the course of the winter, I use maybe 4 or 5 bottles.
Ed

"Mike" wrote in message
I'm not sure if I understand the question completely. When you say open
flame are you referring to the various heaters with an actual flame
that's exposed only, or are you referring to woodstoves also?

I don't see a problem with woodstoves--we've used one for my whole life,
my father's entire life, my grandfather's entire life, his father's
entire life..do I need to go on?

Plus you've got a great place to dispose of cutoffs and sawdust.

The potential is from the fumes of finishes. Even a store that is supposed
to be "out" can still have glowing embers a day or two later. It is against
the National Fire Code to use solid fuel heaters in garages due to the
potential of having gas fumes from an automobile. With proper care, it
should be safe as any other heater.

I use an open flame propane heater, but I don't spray finishes while it is
still running.
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

"Dave Rathnow" wrote in message

Could people share their opinions and advice? Is an open
flame heater dangerous? What type of heating do you use?
Any recommendations to heat my shop: it's about 20x20
with a 12 foot ceiling.

Thanks,
Dave.

I use propane. I'd use natural gas if it was available. Electric is
expensive to run, but more of a cost of running enough power to get enough
heat. A 1500 watt heater is only 5118 Btu. I need at least 30,000 in my
detached garage. When the temperature gets very low, say 20 degrees or less,
I don't even try to heat the shop.

What is best for you? Depends on many factors. Insulation? Coldest
outdoor temperature? Fuel availability?
Ed

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in
:



"patriarch astDOTnet"

Just a note: I refilled two gas grill bottles Monday at $2.19/unit,
7.7 units. (I don't recall if it was gallons or pounds.) About $18
& change. In California. At ACE Hardware.

If that is for both, not a bad price. Tonight I filled mine at BJ's
for $7.49. Non member price is $12+

In the course of the winter, I use maybe 4 or 5 bottles.
Ed


I thought you cooked with wood, Ed. ;-)

That was $18 for both bottles. We've got a family doin's this Saturday,
and I'm supposed to cook for 60. I don't want to run out.

When Swingman posted his spareribs pictures a little while ago, he seems to
have started up something again here. I've started reading AFB, and have
been trying to decide how to augment the gas grill with a slow wood
burner...

Too many hobbies...

Patriarch

"Dave Rathnow" wrote in message
news:OZ3Xc.55635$X12.38428@edtnps84...

What type of heating do you use? Any recommendations to heat
my shop: it's about 20x20 with a 12 foot ceiling.

Solar (unshielded remote fusion reactor). I have a 50x50x14 shop
and plan to heat it with three 6x12 panels this winter. Last
winter I used a single 6x12 panel to keep shop temperature above
freezing; and estimate that three will provide a comfortable
daytime working environment (most days).

I don't know about your locale; but a shop the size of yours here
could probably be kept decently warm with a pair of south-facing
6x8 solar panels. The advantage, of course, is that there isn't
any fuel requirement.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA

"patriarch writes:
That was $18 for both bottles. We've got a family doin's this Saturday,
and I'm supposed to cook for 60. I don't want to run out.

When Swingman posted his spareribs pictures a little while ago, he seems
to
have started up something again here. I've started reading AFB, and have
been trying to decide how to augment the gas grill with a slow wood
burner...

I've posted this one before, but since you have a group of 60 coming, will
post again.

Doubt you can get a typical propane grill low enough for this one, so will
give you the oven recipe:

Lew's Country Ribs

Start with at least 5 lbs of "country ribs" usually cut from the shoulder of
the pig. (These are the fat ones and around here they are $0.99/lb on sale)

Put ribs in a 1 gallon ZipLock bag along with 1-1/2 cups of soy sauce and
3/4 cup brown sugar, mixed before adding to bag.

(Scale up as required).

Marinade ribs for at least 24-36 hours in the fridge turning over every 12
hours.

When complete, place ribs, fat side up on a rack in a pan and place in oven
@ 400F for 20 minutes, then reduce heat to about 212F (halfway between
200F-225F setting on oven) for at least 10 hours.

Save marinade for later.

Remove from oven and allow to rest on cutting board about 20-30 minutes,
then cut 1/2" thick medallions of meat with a good sharp chef's knife.

Any bone or residual fat can be peeled away with your fingers as you are
cutting medallions. You end up with only lean pork pieces.

Place marinade in a sauce pan and slowly bring to a boil over low heat.

(You don't want to caramelize the sugar)

Arrange medallions around the outer rim of a serving platter with cup in
center of plate containing sterilized marinade.

Add tooth picks and for your own safety, get the hell out of the way.

Enjoy.

BTW, I'm doing these for a party this weekend.


--
Lew

S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
Visit: http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett for Pictures

"Dave Rathnow" wrote in message news:OZ3Xc.55635$X12.38428@edtnps84...
With winter immanent, I'm looking at putting some heating in my shop
so I can work and not freeze. I've heard people say that any
kind of open flame heating is dangerous because it could ignite saw
dust--I've heard others say this is rubbish.

Could people share their opinions and advice? Is an open
flame heater dangerous? What type of heating do you use?
Any recommendations to heat my shop: it's about 20x20
with a 12 foot ceiling.

Thanks,
Dave.

I've used a combination wood/coal stove for years. Wood in the early
fall and late spring to warm things up then the heat of the day is
sufficient to keep the temp comfortable. Coal in the cold season on
Cape Cod...it's cheap, easy to use not having to feed it often. At
10pm, I feed it and its good until 8am the next morning. Shop temp
about 70F. Never a problem with dust although I keep a clean shop.

I'm curious as to how you distribute the heat in your shop. I've been
giving a lot of thought into putting in a solar powered radiant system
when I build a new shop "sometime." But how do you add solar heat in a
pre-existing building?



Morris Dovey wrote:
"Dave Rathnow" wrote in message
news:OZ3Xc.55635$X12.38428@edtnps84...

What type of heating do you use? Any recommendations to heat
my shop: it's about 20x20 with a 12 foot ceiling.


Solar (unshielded remote fusion reactor). I have a 50x50x14 shop and
plan to heat it with three 6x12 panels this winter. Last winter I used a
single 6x12 panel to keep shop temperature above freezing; and estimate
that three will provide a comfortable daytime working environment (most
days).

I don't know about your locale; but a shop the size of yours here could
probably be kept decently warm with a pair of south-facing 6x8 solar
panels. The advantage, of course, is that there isn't any fuel requirement.

Edwin Pawlowski writes:

Just a note: I refilled two gas grill bottles Monday at $2.19/unit, 7.7
units. (I don't recall if it was gallons or pounds.) About $18 & change.
In California. At ACE Hardware.

If that is for both, not a bad price. Tonight I filled mine at BJ's for
$7.49. Non member price is $12+

In the course of the winter, I use maybe 4 or 5 bottles.

I haven't filled mine in a long time, so don't know prices, but I do know my
shop, which is 25 x 48 with an 8' 6" ceiling (I screwed up the 10' would
have been much better) flat eats propane on cold days. I have a 35,000 Btu
catalytic heater and a 15,000 Btu model, and often had to run both to get it up
to working temp in the a.m. Working temp for me is around 55-60, but if I'm
gluing it is 65 to 70, as it is for finishing. But I don't like spray residue
floating into glowing catalytics, so I ran it up near 75 or sometimes 80, and
shut down the heat before finishing. That eats at least a 20# bottle (4
gallons?) each day.

This winter will be cheaper, if all goes well. Set the furnace at 50 and leave
it until I'm in the shop.

We'll see.

Charlie Self
"A judge is a law student who marks his own examination papers." H. L. Mencken

"patriarch astDOTnet" patriarch wrote in message

When Swingman posted his spareribs pictures a little while ago, he seems
to
have started up something again here. I've started reading AFB, and have
been trying to decide how to augment the gas grill with a slow wood
burner...


I have a few cookers, both gas and wood fired. If you want some of the wood
flavor, you can put some chunks in a tuna fish can, cover it with foil, poke
a few holes and set it close to the burner. For slow cooking though, it is
hard to get the gas grills to burn low enough. Next weekend I'll be making
a brisket and a pastrami (from a cured brisket) and it will smoke for about
12 hours.
Ed

I'm located in Calgary, Alberta, where winter temps can get down to -30C.
Average temps, though, are usually about -15C but we have these things
called Chinooks that will causes temps to go from -20C to +5C in a couple
of hours.

Where can I find more information on the solor heating panels you are using?

Thanks,
Dave.


"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
"Dave Rathnow" wrote in message
news:OZ3Xc.55635$X12.38428@edtnps84...

What type of heating do you use? Any recommendations to heat
my shop: it's about 20x20 with a 12 foot ceiling.

Solar (unshielded remote fusion reactor). I have a 50x50x14 shop
and plan to heat it with three 6x12 panels this winter. Last
winter I used a single 6x12 panel to keep shop temperature above
freezing; and estimate that three will provide a comfortable
daytime working environment (most days).

I don't know about your locale; but a shop the size of yours here
could probably be kept decently warm with a pair of south-facing
6x8 solar panels. The advantage, of course, is that there isn't
any fuel requirement.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA

All finishing work is done in my basement. I only do woodwork in my shop
so the only thing that is potentially explosive is the gasoline for my lawn
mower,
but that will likely be coming out when I build my shed (hopefully before
the snow
flies.)

As I said in another post, I'm in Calgary, Alberta where winter temps
average about
-15C.

Dave.

"patriarch astDOTnet" patriarch wrote in message
.17...
"Dave Rathnow" wrote in
news:OZ3Xc.55635$X12.38428@edtnps84:


With winter immanent, I'm looking at putting some heating in my shop
so I can work and not freeze. I've heard people say that any
kind of open flame heating is dangerous because it could ignite saw
dust--I've heard others say this is rubbish.

Could people share their opinions and advice? Is an open
flame heater dangerous? What type of heating do you use?
Any recommendations to heat my shop: it's about 20x20
with a 12 foot ceiling.

Thanks,
Dave.

I'm less concerned with dust explosions than I am about the various oils,
solvents and finishes I store and use regularly.

A little more detail about your shop environment, your location and your
requirements would help us give you all the opinion, misinformation and
conjecture for which USENET is famous. ;-)

Patriarch

Dave Rathnow wrote:

I'm located in Calgary, Alberta, where winter temps can get
down to -30C. Average temps, though, are usually about -15C
but we have these things called Chinooks that will causes
temps to go from -20C to +5C in a couple of hours.

Where can I find more information on the solor heating panels
you are using?

Oops! I got this in the mail, too; and have already answered.
Check your mailbox...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Mike Marlow wrote:


"Dave Rathnow" wrote in message
news:OZ3Xc.55635$X12.38428@edtnps84...

With winter immanent, I'm looking at putting some heating in my shop
so I can work and not freeze. I've heard people say that any
kind of open flame heating is dangerous because it could ignite saw
dust--I've heard others say this is rubbish.

Could people share their opinions and advice? Is an open
flame heater dangerous? What type of heating do you use?
Any recommendations to heat my shop: it's about 20x20
with a 12 foot ceiling.

Thanks,
Dave.

Dave - it's pure hogwash. Thousands of woodworkers both professional
and
non have burned firewood in their shops since forever. There has indeed
been a great deal of discussion surrounding this and in fact a great
deal
of
real fact. In the end, you won't be able to create the type of air/fuel
density necessary for combustion with your shop tools. You can do a
google search and find the reports of exactly what particulate count and
what size the particulates have to be in order to support combustion if
you choose, but you'll find that you really can't create that
environment.

Maybe _you_ can't create a pile of sawdust, but if so you are the only
woodworker in the world who is so blessed.

One does not need airborne particulates to have a fire you know.


True - but to keep this on the track that it started out on, I was not
talking about whether sawdust is flammable or not, I was talking about
explosive, which is what I interpreted the OP's question to be. I elected
to let the obvious stand on its own, which was that sawdust will burn. I
gave the OP credit for being smart enough not to throw a pail full of coals
into his sawdust pile, which is just about the only way he's going to be at
risk.
--

-Mike-

I have a 26x40 shop that I heat with a propane 70,000 btu furnace.
It's made by Modine and it's called a Hot Dawg. It hangs on the
ceiling and vents out the wall. I bought it on the internet through
QC Supply for around $600 delivered. I did bring in a 320 lb propane
tank that's only used for this furnace, then it's easier to gauge how
much I'm using. Last winter (in northern WI) I used about $300 worth
of propane. When I'm not using the shop I keep it set around 45 and
it takes only a few minutes to heat up to 65.

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in
link.net:


I've posted this one before, but since you have a group of 60 coming,
will post again.

Doubt you can get a typical propane grill low enough for this one, so
will give you the oven recipe:

Lew's Country Ribs

snip of a good looking recipe

Thanks, Lew. I'll almost certainly use this approach for at least part of
the feast.

Enjoy your get together this weekend!

Patriarch

In article OZ3Xc.55635$X12.38428@edtnps84, says...

With winter immanent, I'm looking at putting some heating in my shop
snip
I got an old slow combustion stove (think you call them a pot belly).
Been in the shop for 2 years. Feed it with all the scraps and it keeps
the shop warm (5m x 10m)
--

Phillip Hansen
Skil-Phil Solutions

Phil,
Don't have room for {and can't AFFORD} one of those 'traditional' pot
belly's. So I have a cheap 'knock off' of the 'Swedish style'. Ditto on what
I feed it . . . along with chunks from a tree I had to take down years ago.

Actually, a bit better than a portable Kerosene heater. While the Kero
heater puts out 120,000 BTu, one of the by products is a slight amount of
water vapor. Not the best for the tools or the curing epoxy.

Regards,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop

"Phil Hansen" wrote snip
I got an old slow combustion stove (think you call them a pot belly).
Been in the shop for 2 years. Feed it with all the scraps and it keeps
the shop warm (5m x 10m)
--

Phillip Hansen
Skil-Phil Solutions

In article ,
says...
Phil,
Don't have room for {and can't AFFORD} one of those 'traditional' pot
belly's. So I have a cheap 'knock off' of the 'Swedish style'. Ditto on what
I feed it . . . along with chunks from a tree I had to take down years ago.
Ron,
Got mine from a scrap yard. Cost me R250 (about $35)Now that spring is
here it has been cleaned and painted all ready for next winter.
Cheers

--

Phillip Hansen
Skil-Phil Solutions

Phil,
I keep hearing references to 'cheap at the scrap yard', and 'shopping' at
the city dump.

WHERE !!??

Around here you'd think the stuff was either gold or nuclear waste . . . the
way it's either locked away or trucked a hundred miles away. If you don't
get it out of your neighbors trash before the Thursday morning pick-up . . .
it's GONE !!

Regards,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
{That's how I got the doors that make up my heavy *big* workbench, and what
I throw across sawhorses for 'instant' ones !!}
"Phil Hansen" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
Phil,
Don't have room for {and can't AFFORD} one of those 'traditional' pot
belly's. So I have a cheap 'knock off' of the 'Swedish style'. Ditto on
what
I feed it . . . along with chunks from a tree I had to take down years
ago.
Ron,
Got mine from a scrap yard. Cost me R250 (about $35)Now that spring is
here it has been cleaned and painted all ready for next winter.
Cheers

--

Phillip Hansen
Skil-Phil Solutions

Same as here. "The city dump" is off limits to anyone that doesn't work
there. We have "transfer stations". Open top semis that you approach from
the top via a platform and throw your stuff into. Not much of a way to
salvage anything. If you do manage to salvage something, you will be
arrested for doing so.

"Ron Magen" wrote in message
news
Phil,
I keep hearing references to 'cheap at the scrap yard', and 'shopping' at
the city dump.

WHERE !!??

Around here you'd think the stuff was either gold or nuclear waste . . .
the
way it's either locked away or trucked a hundred miles away. If you don't
get it out of your neighbors trash before the Thursday morning pick-up . .
..
it's GONE !!

Regards,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
{That's how I got the doors that make up my heavy *big* workbench, and
what
I throw across sawhorses for 'instant' ones !!}