I'm building some Shaker style cabinet doors and I'll be using 1/4"
plywood for the panels.

I REALLY hate the look of normal rotary cut veneer and will NOT use it.
So that leaves me with quarter sawn, rift sawn, and plain/flat sawn.

I can get 1/4" CherryAA, plain, mdf core for about $70/sheet, locally.
I don't know where I can find quarter or rift sawn plywood anywhere
local, so I would have to have it shipped or drive however many hours to
get it.

I'm not really concerned with the price. If I'll pay $70, I'll pay
$100+. It's not enough sheets to worry about. Given that these will be
our kitchen cabinet doors, I want them to look great.

I've seen some pictures on the internet and the flat sawn definitely
looks much better than rotary cut, to me. So, in your opinions, does
rift and quarter sawn veneer look *that* much better than flat sawn?
Is it night and day to you? Is it worth the extra hassle and $$?

AND... does anyone have any pictures of cabinet doors or any other
project on which they used flat sawn plywood?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 3/17/2010 8:48 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
I'm building some Shaker style cabinet doors and I'll be using 1/4"
plywood for the panels.

I REALLY hate the look of normal rotary cut veneer and will NOT use it.
So that leaves me with quarter sawn, rift sawn, and plain/flat sawn.

I can get 1/4" CherryAA, plain, mdf core for about $70/sheet, locally.
I don't know where I can find quarter or rift sawn plywood anywhere
local, so I would have to have it shipped or drive however many hours to
get it.

I'm not really concerned with the price. If I'll pay $70, I'll pay
$100+. It's not enough sheets to worry about. Given that these will be
our kitchen cabinet doors, I want them to look great.

I've seen some pictures on the internet and the flat sawn definitely
looks much better than rotary cut, to me. So, in your opinions, does
rift and quarter sawn veneer look *that* much better than flat sawn?
Is it night and day to you? Is it worth the extra hassle and $$?

AND... does anyone have any pictures of cabinet doors or any other
project on which they used flat sawn plywood?

If money is no object, why not forgo the plywood and use solid Cherry to make
your panels? That way you can sift through the available boards and choose the
look you want. I agree with you about rotary cut plywood, but other than that
I think Cherry looks gorgeous no matter what the cut; flat, rift, or quarter.
That said, if you go with flat sawn, try to look for boards with some quilting
in them; that just about makes up for what you miss when you have quarter-sawn
wood with lots of ray flecks (which is DAMN gorgeous).

What color are you going to paint them? :-)

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On 3/17/10 9:18 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
If money is no object, why not forgo the plywood and use solid Cherry to
make your panels?


Because plywood is so darn easy and stable. Besides, I'm using flat
panels, not raised. The groove is 1/4"-6mm on my bits. Do people make
solid 1/4" panels? Or do the make them thicker and rabbet out the slot
in the back?


That way you can sift through the available boards and
choose the look you want. I agree with you about rotary cut plywood, but
other than that I think Cherry looks gorgeous no matter what the cut;
flat, rift, or quarter. That said, if you go with flat sawn, try to look
for boards with some quilting in them; that just about makes up for what
you miss when you have quarter-sawn wood with lots of ray flecks (which
is DAMN gorgeous).


That's good to hear. I'll see if they let me... ehem!... cherry-pick
through the pile.


What color are you going to paint them? :-)


Walnut. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Mar 17, 9:48*pm, -MIKE- wrote:
I'm building some Shaker style cabinet doors and I'll be using 1/4"
plywood for the panels.

I REALLY hate the look of normal rotary cut veneer and will NOT use it.
So that leaves me with quarter sawn, rift sawn, and plain/flat sawn.

I can get 1/4" CherryAA, plain, mdf core for about $70/sheet, locally.
I don't know where I can find quarter or rift sawn plywood anywhere
local, so I would have to have it shipped or drive however many hours to
get it.

I'm not really concerned with the price. If I'll pay $70, I'll pay
$100+. *It's not enough sheets to worry about. *Given that these will be
our kitchen cabinet doors, I want them to look great.

I've seen some pictures on the internet and the flat sawn definitely
looks much better than rotary cut, to me. *So, in your opinions, does
rift and quarter sawn veneer look *that* much better than flat sawn?
Is it night and day to you? *Is it worth the extra hassle and $$?

AND... does anyone have any pictures of cabinet doors or any other
project on which they used flat sawn plywood?

--

* -MIKE-

* "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
* * *--Elvin Jones *(1927-2004)
* --
*http://mikedrums.com
*
* ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

I'd say the question, Mike, is whether or not it's worth it to you.
Why would you give a rat's ass about what someone else thinks?

John Martin

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
I'm building some Shaker style cabinet doors and I'll be using 1/4"
plywood for the panels.

I REALLY hate the look of normal rotary cut veneer and will NOT use it.
So that leaves me with quarter sawn, rift sawn, and plain/flat sawn.

I can get 1/4" CherryAA, plain, mdf core for about $70/sheet, locally.
I don't know where I can find quarter or rift sawn plywood anywhere
local, so I would have to have it shipped or drive however many hours to
get it.

I'm not really concerned with the price. If I'll pay $70, I'll pay
$100+. It's not enough sheets to worry about. Given that these will be
our kitchen cabinet doors, I want them to look great.

I've seen some pictures on the internet and the flat sawn definitely
looks much better than rotary cut, to me. So, in your opinions, does
rift and quarter sawn veneer look *that* much better than flat sawn?
Is it night and day to you? Is it worth the extra hassle and $$?

AND... does anyone have any pictures of cabinet doors or any other
project on which they used flat sawn plywood?

If you have seen my comments and pictures on my "towers" bedroom project you
will have seen 1/4 sawn oak plywood panels.

Something to watch out for,

All of the quarter sawn plywood that I have seen and purchased is made up
of book matched slices. Some times there are 8, some times there are 12
slices to cover a sheet of plywood. This can look strange if you are using
more than one sheet and you want everything to look symetrical. Under
certain lighting conditions you can plainly see each strip.
IMHO you want to hand pick the sheets you get.

Notice here, that the slices are obvious in the foot and head boards, under
a flash exposure. Notice that the slices are not noticeable on the towers.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/4243010840/

Fortunately the obvious slices do not show up under "my" normal lighting
conditions.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/4275428546/

And finally the finished project.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/4436686012/

I vote for flat sawn .

IMO, flat sawn cherry looks nice. I made some bedside tables for a buddy
that had cherry riftsawn (solid) tops and drawerfronts. They looked good,
different than plainsawn, but not better.

If it were White Oak I would feel differently, but for cherry stick with
plain.

Another poster suggested problems with plywood warping. I don't think you
will have any problems with MDF core. I did my kitchen in maple using
MDF-core flat pannels. It worked out just fine.

-Steve



"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
I'm building some Shaker style cabinet doors and I'll be using 1/4"
plywood for the panels.

I REALLY hate the look of normal rotary cut veneer and will NOT use it.
So that leaves me with quarter sawn, rift sawn, and plain/flat sawn.

I can get 1/4" CherryAA, plain, mdf core for about $70/sheet, locally.
I don't know where I can find quarter or rift sawn plywood anywhere
local, so I would have to have it shipped or drive however many hours to
get it.

I'm not really concerned with the price. If I'll pay $70, I'll pay
$100+. It's not enough sheets to worry about. Given that these will be
our kitchen cabinet doors, I want them to look great.

I've seen some pictures on the internet and the flat sawn definitely
looks much better than rotary cut, to me. So, in your opinions, does
rift and quarter sawn veneer look *that* much better than flat sawn?
Is it night and day to you? Is it worth the extra hassle and $$?

AND... does anyone have any pictures of cabinet doors or any other
project on which they used flat sawn plywood?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

I'd say the question, Mike, is whether or not it's worth it to you.
Why would you give a rat's ass about what someone else thinks?

John Martin

Well, John, we're all here because we give a rat's ass what others think.
Otherwise nobody would ask ask questions, right?

Is this tool any good? Does this technique work? Does this finish
look any good on this wood? And my question....

Does quarter or rift sawn look *that* much than flat sawn.
And... does anyone have any pictures of flat sawn on their work?


But thanks for that wonderful insight. :-p


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 3/18/10 8:38 AM, dadiOH wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
On 3/17/10 9:18 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
If money is no object, why not forgo the plywood and use solid
Cherry to make your panels?


Because plywood is so darn easy and stable.

Easy, yes; stable, not necessarily. If you don't believe me, come look at
the cabinets I made a year or so ago for my wife's laundry room using 1/4"
birch ply for the panels. The four doors on the lower cabinet are fine; the
four doors (about the same size as the lowers) are warped beyond
belief...one corner on each is standing out 1-2"!! And yes, they were flat
originally. One of these days - when I can conquer my urge to just destroy
them - I'll make new ones. And I won't be using 1/4" ply (or *any* ply) for
the panels.


Help me understand this. Are these just panels, or did you use rail and
stiles?
I don't see the proverbial snow ball's chance in he!! of a 1/4" plywood
panel warping solid wood rails and stiles.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 3/18/10 9:02 AM, StephenM wrote:
I vote for flat sawn .

IMO, flat sawn cherry looks nice. I made some bedside tables for a buddy
that had cherry riftsawn (solid) tops and drawerfronts. They looked good,
different than plainsawn, but not better.

If it were White Oak I would feel differently, but for cherry stick with
plain.


I guess I confused people with the cherry thing. I just used that as an
example of the price difference. I haven't settled on a wood, yet.
I'll definitely go with cherry, if I can, since we like a natural finish.

I'm not a big fan of oak for cabinets, anyway.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 3/18/10 8:41 AM, Leon wrote:

Something to watch out for,

All of the quarter sawn plywood that I have seen and purchased is made up
of book matched slices. Some times there are 8, some times there are 12
slices to cover a sheet of plywood. This can look strange if you are using
more than one sheet and you want everything to look symetrical. Under
certain lighting conditions you can plainly see each strip.
IMHO you want to hand pick the sheets you get.


This is exactly the kind of feedback I'm looking for. Thanks, Leon.


Notice here, that the slices are obvious in the foot and head boards, under
a flash exposure. Notice that the slices are not noticeable on the towers.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/4243010840/


Yes, I see. Definitely a color difference, but the grain is fine in my
book. (pun)


Fortunately the obvious slices do not show up under "my" normal lighting
conditions.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/4275428546/

And finally the finished project.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/4436686012/


So, just to be clear, all the panels on that project are flat sawn veneer?

Great work, by the way!



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 3/18/2010 11:43 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

Help me understand this. Are these just panels, or did you use rail and
stiles?

Chances are they were not frame and panel. It warping at all, it would
have been from the frames, IME.

I don't see the proverbial snow ball's chance in he!! of a 1/4" plywood
panel warping solid wood rails and stiles.

Agreed ... I've made literally hundreds of frame and panel doors with
1/4 plywood panels and never had one warp from the panel.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 3/18/2010 11:51 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

I'm not a big fan of oak for cabinets, anyway.

Mu personal preference is cherry, but I build more oak cabinets than
anything else.

As far as plywood, I almost always go with rift sawn for kitchens where
I make the call ... and, for my own A&C furniture projects, I use QS for
door panels.

Rift sawn makes for a much less "slap you in the face" grain when stained.

Although many folks like the wild grain look.


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

I don't think the striping problem depends on the way the wood is
sawn. In my kitchen they used flat sawn oak plywood for the doors and
you can clearly see dramatic contrasts in the color that result from
the book matching. The contrast is visible in the normal kitchen
lighting. I recently worked on a cabinet where when I went to
arrange the wood (quarter sawn cherry) I discovered that if I turned a
board end for end the color would change dramatically. To get the
colors to match I had to keep the boards oriented the same direction
they were in the tree. If I flipped one over (book match) I would get
a color contrast unless I also turned it end for end. I suspect that
all non-rotary plywood is book matched, so it'll all have this
problem.

The ray fleck pattern in quarter sawn cherry is really pretty. Do
they sell plywood with that kind of veneer on it? I'd probably favor
that over plain sawn cherry, though plain sawn cherry would look nice
too. Seems like quarter sawn without the ray fleck pattern wouldn't
be worth paying more for. If you were to choose maple I wouldn't see
any point in using quarter sawn. A note about maple, though: I got
some non-rotary maple plywood recently and it had dark blotches
(ambrosia?). Worked out fine in my project as a nice accent, but
might not be what you were hoping for in a set of kitchen doors.

On 3/18/10 1:14 PM, wrote:
I don't think the striping problem depends on the way the wood is
sawn. In my kitchen they used flat sawn oak plywood for the doors and
you can clearly see dramatic contrasts in the color that result from
the book matching. The contrast is visible in the normal kitchen
lighting. I recently worked on a cabinet where when I went to
arrange the wood (quarter sawn cherry) I discovered that if I turned a
board end for end the color would change dramatically. To get the
colors to match I had to keep the boards oriented the same direction
they were in the tree. If I flipped one over (book match) I would get
a color contrast unless I also turned it end for end. I suspect that
all non-rotary plywood is book matched, so it'll all have this
problem.

The ray fleck pattern in quarter sawn cherry is really pretty. Do
they sell plywood with that kind of veneer on it? I'd probably favor
that over plain sawn cherry, though plain sawn cherry would look nice
too. Seems like quarter sawn without the ray fleck pattern wouldn't
be worth paying more for. If you were to choose maple I wouldn't see
any point in using quarter sawn. A note about maple, though: I got
some non-rotary maple plywood recently and it had dark blotches
(ambrosia?). Worked out fine in my project as a nice accent, but
might not be what you were hoping for in a set of kitchen doors.


Thanks for the insight. I'm not so concerned with the book-matching,
although if I have any control over picking, I'll definitely take what
you said into account.

The way I see it, at least flat sawn book-matched looks like wood...
looks like cut boards. I've seen solid panels doors that weren't
exactly color matched, you know?

And I haven't committed to any species, yet.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 3/18/10 2:35 PM, dadiOH wrote:
Help me understand this. Are these just panels, or did you use rail
and stiles?
I don't see the proverbial snow ball's chance in he!! of a 1/4"
plywood panel warping solid wood rails and stiles.

Well, they did.


I'm not going to question that you experienced this problem, just your
diagnosis of it. :-)

If those were made of solid wood rails and stiles with 1/4" plywood
panels, there is no way on this planet that the 1/4" plywood warped,
causing the rails and stile to warp, as well. It's a simple matter of
reversed cause and effect, here. The rails/stiles, for whatever
reason, warped and pulled the plywood with them.

Now, if you're saying the doors are made only from a rectangle of 1/4"
plywood, then yes, with all that humidity, I can see an unsupported
piece of 1/4" plywood curling up like a ribbon, in no time.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

My only real experience is with QS white oak and I have found the QS
ply to be very underwhelming in terms of figure. Not sure why that is
but never really had much impressive figure and there is no stability
enhancments since it is ply so the extra money for QS, which looked
like rift wasn't worth it in my opinion.

On Mar 17, 6:48*pm, -MIKE- wrote:
I'm building some Shaker style cabinet doors and I'll be using 1/4"
plywood for the panels.

I REALLY hate the look of normal rotary cut veneer and will NOT use it.
So that leaves me with quarter sawn, rift sawn, and plain/flat sawn.

I can get 1/4" CherryAA, plain, mdf core for about $70/sheet, locally.
I don't know where I can find quarter or rift sawn plywood anywhere
local, so I would have to have it shipped or drive however many hours to
get it.

I'm not really concerned with the price. If I'll pay $70, I'll pay
$100+. *It's not enough sheets to worry about. *Given that these will be
our kitchen cabinet doors, I want them to look great.

I've seen some pictures on the internet and the flat sawn definitely
looks much better than rotary cut, to me. *So, in your opinions, does
rift and quarter sawn veneer look *that* much better than flat sawn?
Is it night and day to you? *Is it worth the extra hassle and $$?

AND... does anyone have any pictures of cabinet doors or any other
project on which they used flat sawn plywood?

--

* -MIKE-

* "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
* * *--Elvin Jones *(1927-2004)
* --
*http://mikedrums.com
*
* ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Mar 18, 12:35*pm, -MIKE- wrote:
I'd say the question, Mike, is whether or not it's worth it to you.
Why would you give a rat's ass about what someone else thinks?

John Martin

Well, John, we're all here because we give a rat's ass what others think.
Otherwise nobody would ask ask questions, right?

Is this tool any good? * Does this technique work? *Does this finish
look any good on this wood? *And my question....

Does quarter or rift sawn look *that* much than flat sawn.
And... does anyone have any pictures of flat sawn on their work?

But thanks for that wonderful insight. * :-p

--

* -MIKE-


Is this tool any good? Does this technique work? Good questions,
which should yield some meaningful answers.

Does this finish look any good on this wood? Might, or might not.
Depends on the viewer, doesn't it?

You've already told us how much you hate rotary cut veneers. Others
may think the rotary cut veneers are fine. You didn't ask about
stability, availability or cost differences. All you care about is
how it looks. And, as it turns out, you don't even know which wood
species you want to use. For all that, Mike, yours is the only
opinion that matters.

I'm thinking of buying a new car. Maybe it will be a truck. My
problem is that I can't decide between red and blue. Can you help me
decide? Would you send me some pictures of red or blue cars or trucks
to help me? Oh, sorry - this is a woodworking group. I'll ask in an
automotive group instead.

They say there is no such thing as a stupid question. They are wrong.

John Martin

On 3/18/10 3:53 PM, John Martin wrote:

They say there is no such thing as a stupid question. They are wrong.

John Martin


Why didn't you just say that in the first place?
That's obviously what you meant by your first post,
but you didn't have the stones to just say it.

Next time, either keep your convoluted insults to yourself,
or grow a pair and say what you really think. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 3/18/2010 1:59 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
My only real experience is with QS white oak and I have found the QS
ply to be very underwhelming in terms of figure. Not sure why that is
but never really had much impressive figure and there is no stability
enhancments since it is ply so the extra money for QS, which looked
like rift wasn't worth it in my opinion.

I've always been able to find QSWO plywood with nice figure here on the
Gulf Coast:

The bottom doors in this corner cabinet I build a few years back are
frame and panel doors with 1/4" QSWO plywood panels.

Here they are with just one coat of stain:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/corncab21.jpg

And here are the doors after spraying with amber shellac and the piece
was put into service:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/QSPlydoors.jpg

I thought the QSWO ply ended up matching quite nicely with the QSWO
stock used for the rest of the piece after all was said and done.

The two back panels of the case are 3/4" QSWO ply, and they have a nice
figure also, although you can't tell by the archaic digital photo.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 3/18/2010 12:51 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/18/10 9:02 AM, StephenM wrote:
I vote for flat sawn .

IMO, flat sawn cherry looks nice. I made some bedside tables for a buddy
that had cherry riftsawn (solid) tops and drawerfronts. They looked good,
different than plainsawn, but not better.

If it were White Oak I would feel differently, but for cherry stick with
plain.


I guess I confused people with the cherry thing. I just used that as an
example of the price difference. I haven't settled on a wood, yet. I'll
definitely go with cherry, if I can, since we like a natural finish.

I'm not a big fan of oak for cabinets, anyway.


I am just about to start a new job and will be ordering 3/4 quarter sawn
maple for the drawer fronts and doors. I am looking for the relatively
straight grain that qtr gives you vs the cathedral grain of flat sawn.
It just has to do with what look you are after and your budget. I guess
I am paying about $50 more per sheet to get the qtr and I am having to
have it made up special. Plain sawn is stocked.

Neither is better than the other. Which do you want to use is the question.

JMHO
Harvey

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...

So, just to be clear, all the panels on that project are flat sawn veneer?

Quarter sawn. You can see the that a little more eaisly on the pics where
the bookmatches are not so obvious.




Great work, by the way!


Thank you.

On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 14:35:54 -0500, the infamous "dadiOH"
scrawled the following:

-MIKE- wrote:
On 3/18/10 8:38 AM, dadiOH wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
On 3/17/10 9:18 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
If money is no object, why not forgo the plywood and use solid
Cherry to make your panels?


Because plywood is so darn easy and stable.

Easy, yes; stable, not necessarily. If you don't believe me, come
look at the cabinets I made a year or so ago for my wife's laundry
room using 1/4" birch ply for the panels. The four doors on the
lower cabinet are fine; the four doors (about the same size as the
lowers) are warped beyond belief...one corner on each is standing
out 1-2"!! And yes, they were flat originally. One of these days -
when I can conquer my urge to just destroy them - I'll make new
ones. And I won't be using 1/4" ply (or *any* ply) for the panels.


Help me understand this. Are these just panels, or did you use rail
and stiles?
I don't see the proverbial snow ball's chance in he!! of a 1/4"
plywood panel warping solid wood rails and stiles.

Well, they did.

Remind the little woman that she shouldn't store wet clothes in the
cabinets.

--
No matter how cynical you are, it is impossible to keep up.
--Lily Tomlin

wrote in message
...
I don't think the striping problem depends on the way the wood is
sawn. In my kitchen they used flat sawn oak plywood for the doors and
you can clearly see dramatic contrasts in the color that result from
the book matching. The contrast is visible in the normal kitchen
lighting. I recently worked on a cabinet where when I went to
arrange the wood (quarter sawn cherry) I discovered that if I turned a
board end for end the color would change dramatically. To get the
colors to match I had to keep the boards oriented the same direction
they were in the tree. If I flipped one over (book match) I would get
a color contrast unless I also turned it end for end. I suspect that
all non-rotary plywood is book matched, so it'll all have this
problem.

This problem mostly exists because of the way light reflects back off off
and or out of the grain. Typically book matched pieces have the grain
pointing in mirrored dirrections also. Actually you can often see regular
hard woods change from light to dark and back again if you spin the wood
360 degrees and or walk around the piece.
I have found that if you stain the pieces the light and dark is much less
dramatic if noticeable at all. Clear unobstructive finishes that do not
stain the wood tend to exagerate the light and dark patterns.

On 03/18/2010 01:14 PM, wrote:
The ray fleck pattern in quarter sawn cherry is really pretty.

Very.

If you were to choose maple I wouldn't see any point in
using quarter sawn.

That depends. Quarter-sawn maple (sugar maple, in my experience) can have some _very_ nice
looking ray fleck, and in my opinion it's worth the effort to seek it out if you have the
lumber at your disposal.

--
Any given amount of traffic flow, no matter how
sparse, will expand to fill all available lanes.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message
...
My only real experience is with QS white oak and I have found the QS
ply to be very underwhelming in terms of figure. Not sure why that is
but never really had much impressive figure and there is no stability
enhancments since it is ply so the extra money for QS, which looked
like rift wasn't worth it in my opinion.

That can be true, however if you have the time and patients to look through
a quantity of quarter sawn plywood you will in deed find those pieces that
have pretty impressive patterns.
If you look at the foot board on the link below you will see the more
exagerated quarter sawn pattern in the 1/2" plywood panels. The towers are
also made with quarter sawn plywood but more closely resemble what you have
come to expect, a rift sawn look.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...28546/sizes/l/

"Leon" wrote in message
...

If you look at the foot board on the link below you will see the more
exagerated quarter sawn pattern in the 1/2" plywood panels.

Oops, make that 1/4" QS plywood panels.

I'm not going to question that you experienced this problem, just your
diagnosis of it. :-)

If those were made of solid wood rails and stiles with 1/4" plywood
panels, there is no way on this planet that the 1/4" plywood warped,
causing the rails and stile to warp, as well. It's a simple matter of
reversed cause and effect, here. The rails/stiles, for whatever
reason, warped and pulled the plywood with them.

Wrong
_____________

Now, if you're saying the doors are made only from a rectangle of 1/4"
plywood, then yes, with all that humidity, I can see an unsupported
piece of 1/4" plywood curling up like a ribbon, in no time.

1. I cut a bunch of softwood lumber into uniform pieces - about 3/4" x 1
3/4" - for use as frames for various utility type doors I needed to make for
both my shop and house. I still have a bunch in the shop, all flat as
pancakes.

2. For the shop doors I used hardboard as the panels. None warped.
Humidity in the shop is high in the summer.

3. I used 1/4" (nominal) birch ply for the doors in the house. Made eight
doors. All were nice and flat. Four warped. The humidity in the laundry
is no higher than anywhere else.

4. I used the same 1/4" ply for some smallish (12" x 18" more or less)
sliding doors for a utility cabinet also in the laundry. They just slide in
grooves, grooves were made sloppy wide because I know from past experience
that ply warps and if the grooves are a nice fit the doors will wind up
binding so much they are hard to move. Initially, the butted edges of two
doors were nicely lined up when closed. They no longer are.

5. I just looked in my shop to see if I had any of the ply used for the
warped doors. I found a piece about 12" x 12" (door panels are about 12" x
36"). With one corner and two adjacent sides flat, the opposite corner is
warped by about 3/8". Extend that warp (wind, actually) to 36" and it would
be better than an inch. Here's a photo...
http://mysite.verizon.net/xico/pix/warped_ply.jpg

6. The ply warped, not the frame.


The ply warping by itself is irrelevant.

You said the ply warping, is what pushed the rails and stiles out 2
inches.
I just don't think that is physically possible.

Of course, I assumed you were talking hardwood, but I still don't buy it
with softwood.

But hey, it's not worth arguing about.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Mar 18, 3:32*pm, Swingman wrote:
...
The two back panels of the case are 3/4" QSWO ply, and they have a nice
figure also, although you can't tell by the archaic digital photo.

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Well, I can't see any figure on the forst pic, I guess maybe my
monitor is not so great and the second pic kind of makes my point. It
has a few nice flakes on the right panel but nothing I can see on the
right and compared to the fantastic rays on the rails\stiles the ply
look boring.

On Mar 19, 7:09*am, "Leon" wrote:
"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message

...

Yes those few lower panels have some nice figure. Not too common in my
experience. For me, I usually order ply delivered and don't get to
pick through the sheets and even though I can return stuff it isn't
really fair to like order 10 sheets so I can find the one or two with
good figure and return the others when the real expectation is that QS
ply is going to be hit and miss in terms of figure.

Figure can be a very elusive thing. I have selected some great pieces
of solid stock for projects only to plane away the great figure with
the removal of just 1/32" off the surface. So I can image why it is
difficult to get good slices for veenering ply.

One of my big hopes is to get my kit business up and running and start
buying custom milled QS WO by the truck load. That is my nirvana!

On 3/19/2010 12:48 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
On Mar 18, 3:32 pm, wrote:
...
The two back panels of the case are 3/4" QSWO ply, and they have a nice
figure also, although you can't tell by the archaic digital photo.

Well, I can't see any figure on the forst pic, I guess maybe my
monitor is not so great and the second pic kind of makes my point. It
has a few nice flakes on the right panel but nothing I can see on the
right and compared to the fantastic rays on the rails\stiles the ply
look boring.

"Boring"? Dayum, Bubba ... you sound like that guy in the recording
studio that wants everything louder than everything else.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message
...
On Mar 19, 7:09 am, "Leon" wrote:
"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message

...

Yes those few lower panels have some nice figure. Not too common in my
experience. For me, I usually order ply delivered and don't get to
pick through the sheets and even though I can return stuff it isn't
really fair to like order 10 sheets so I can find the one or two with
good figure and return the others when the real expectation is that QS
ply is going to be hit and miss in terms of figure.

As one of the owners of a supplier I use put it, if I pull the order they
get what every one else picks through. We don't just throw the that stuff
away, if they don't care enough to pick it out themselves they must not
care what it looks like.

On Mar 19, 1:15*pm, "Leon" wrote:
"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message

...
On Mar 19, 7:09 am, "Leon" wrote:

"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message

....

Yes those few lower panels have some nice figure. Not too common in my
experience. For me, I usually order ply delivered and don't get to
pick through the sheets and even though I can return stuff it isn't
really fair to like order 10 sheets so I can find the one or two with
good figure and return the others when the real expectation is that QS
ply is going to be hit and miss in terms of figure.

As one of the owners of a supplier I use put it, if I pull the order they
get what every one else picks through. *We don't just throw the that stuff
away, *if they don't care enough to pick it out themselves they must not
care what it looks like.

Well for me, the bigger suppliers don't allow anyone in their
warehouse. I do have a place I can go and look at anything I want but
not as convenient and not so easy to look through stacks of ply that
have to be pulled down from racks, etc.

right and compared to the fantastic rays on the rails\stiles the ply
look boring.

"Boring"? Dayum, Bubba ... you sound like that guy in the recording
studio that wants everything louder than everything else.

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Hey, I guess you have heard my mixes. ;^)

"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message
...


As one of the owners of a supplier I use put it, if I pull the order they
get what every one else picks through. We don't just throw the that stuff
away, if they don't care enough to pick it out themselves they must not
care what it looks like.

Well for me, the bigger suppliers don't allow anyone in their
warehouse. I do have a place I can go and look at anything I want but
not as convenient and not so easy to look through stacks of ply that
have to be pulled down from racks, etc.


I hear you, fortunately I only had to look through 1/4" stacks. ;~)