Have you noticed that most of the woodworking supply companies have
quietly changed over to shipping charges being based on how much you
pay for rather than how much it weighs. This used to be a hallmark of
bottom feeders such as JC Whitney and Harbor Freight.

I first really noticed it when I ordered a couple of small gifts for
my grandson from Lee Valley. Shipping was $11.50. The order weighed 14
oz including packaging.

I live out in the hinterland and everything comes by FedEx or UPS.
Even the nearest Lowe's is 40 miles away. This really hurts.
--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

It's a damned poor mind that can only
think of one way to spell a word.

On Nov 20, 6:51*pm, Gerald Ross wrote:
Have you noticed that most of the woodworking supply companies have
quietly changed over to shipping charges being based on how much you
pay for rather than how much it weighs. This used to be a hallmark of
bottom feeders such as JC Whitney and Harbor Freight.

I first really noticed it when I ordered a couple of small gifts for
my grandson from Lee Valley. Shipping was $11.50. The order weighed 14
oz including packaging.

I live out in the hinterland and everything comes by FedEx or UPS.
Even the nearest Lowe's is 40 miles away. This really hurts.

Just another thing to factor in. You can use it to your advantage. I
just ordered 100 pounds of cat litter - delivery was $8. It's not
worth my time to go to the store and hump 100 pounds into and out of
the vehicle.

I suppose in your instance it just means you'll be building a bigger
order, and I'm sure that's what they're hoping.

R

"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Nov 20, 6:51 pm, Gerald Ross wrote:
Have you noticed that most of the woodworking supply companies have
quietly changed over to shipping charges being based on how much you
pay for rather than how much it weighs. This used to be a hallmark of
bottom feeders such as JC Whitney and Harbor Freight.

I first really noticed it when I ordered a couple of small gifts for
my grandson from Lee Valley. Shipping was $11.50. The order weighed 14
oz including packaging.

I live out in the hinterland and everything comes by FedEx or UPS.
Even the nearest Lowe's is 40 miles away. This really hurts.

Just another thing to factor in. You can use it to your advantage. I
just ordered 100 pounds of cat litter - delivery was $8. It's not
worth my time to go to the store and hump 100 pounds into and out of
the vehicle.

I suppose in your instance it just means you'll be building a bigger
order, and I'm sure that's what they're hoping.

R

or make a "non critical" list and don't order that stuff until there is a
free freight sale - which is fairly frequent in some cases.

Gerald Ross wrote:
Have you noticed that most of the woodworking supply companies have
quietly changed over to shipping charges being based on how much you pay
for rather than how much it weighs. This used to be a hallmark of bottom
feeders such as JC Whitney and Harbor Freight.

I first really noticed it when I ordered a couple of small gifts for my
grandson from Lee Valley. Shipping was $11.50. The order weighed 14 oz
including packaging.

I live out in the hinterland and everything comes by FedEx or UPS. Even
the nearest Lowe's is 40 miles away. This really hurts.

I just took a look at Lee Valley's shipping fees:

Orders up to $20 - $8.50
$20.01 to $120 - $11.50
Orders over $120 - $13.50

It looks to me as a flat fee of $13.50... reasonable. ;-)

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

Have you noticed that most of the woodworking supply companies have
quietly changed

It's not such a "new" practice, I noticed it years ago.

I think it goes to the cost of calculating/charging shipping costs
most efficiently, despite obvious errors (e.g. a lb of lead vs. a lb.
of feathers). It costs more to "think about i"t than it does to "just
ship".

-Zz

In article 201120091915185610%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone. ca, Dave Balderstone wrote:
In article , Gerald Ross
wrote:

Have you noticed that most of the woodworking supply companies have
quietly changed over to shipping charges being based on how much you
pay for rather than how much it weighs. This used to be a hallmark of
bottom feeders such as JC Whitney and Harbor Freight.

I first really noticed it when I ordered a couple of small gifts for
my grandson from Lee Valley. Shipping was $11.50. The order weighed 14
oz including packaging.

I live out in the hinterland and everything comes by FedEx or UPS.
Even the nearest Lowe's is 40 miles away. This really hurts.

Can you drive 80 miles for $11.50?

Easily. Hell, I can manage that in my old truck -- 85 Dodge, 360 4bbl, about
17mpg on the highway -- and most cars will do far better. At the rate I paid
last time I filled up, $11.50 is 4.75 gallons, which will take my Saturn SL2
considerably farther than 80 miles. Like more than *twice* that.

Of course, that disregards the value of my *time* to drive 80 miles...

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
Snip


Easily. Hell, I can manage that in my old truck -- 85 Dodge, 360 4bbl,
about
17mpg on the highway -- and most cars will do far better. At the rate I
paid
last time I filled up, $11.50 is 4.75 gallons, which will take my Saturn
SL2
considerably farther than 80 miles. Like more than *twice* that.

Of course, that disregards the value of my *time* to drive 80 miles...


Add wear and tear on the vehicle, maintainance, pro-rated insurance. The
governmant allows you a bit over 50 cents per mile when used for business
purposes. That is probably a bit shy of actual cost.

Typically a 80 mile trip really costs you about $40.

"Gerald Ross" wrote in message
...
Have you noticed that most of the woodworking supply companies have
quietly changed over to shipping charges being based on how much you pay
for rather than how much it weighs. This used to be a hallmark of bottom
feeders such as JC Whitney and Harbor Freight.

I first really noticed it when I ordered a couple of small gifts for my
grandson from Lee Valley. Shipping was $11.50. The order weighed 14 oz
including packaging.

I live out in the hinterland and everything comes by FedEx or UPS. Even
the nearest Lowe's is 40 miles away. This really hurts.
--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

It's a damned poor mind that can only
think of one way to spell a word.


Would it be cheaper for you to return it to Lee Valley?

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article
201120091915185610%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone. ca, Dave
Balderstone wrote:
In article ,
Gerald Ross
wrote:

Have you noticed that most of the woodworking supply companies
have
quietly changed over to shipping charges being based on how
much you
pay for rather than how much it weighs. This used to be a
hallmark of
bottom feeders such as JC Whitney and Harbor Freight.

I first really noticed it when I ordered a couple of small
gifts for
my grandson from Lee Valley. Shipping was $11.50. The order
weighed 14
oz including packaging.

I live out in the hinterland and everything comes by FedEx or
UPS.
Even the nearest Lowe's is 40 miles away. This really hurts.

Can you drive 80 miles for $11.50?

Easily. Hell, I can manage that in my old truck -- 85 Dodge, 360
4bbl, about
17mpg on the highway -- and most cars will do far better. At the
rate I paid
last time I filled up, $11.50 is 4.75 gallons, which will take
my Saturn SL2
considerably farther than 80 miles. Like more than *twice* that.

Of course, that disregards the value of my *time* to drive 80
miles...

Good truck: I had an '85 Dually with the same engine and 4-speed.
Wow, was it stable on the road.

--
Nonny

What does it mean when drool runs
out of both sides of a drunken
Congressman’s mouth?

The floor is level.

"Gerald Ross" wrote in message
...
Have you noticed that most of the woodworking supply companies have
quietly changed over to shipping charges being based on how much you pay
for rather than how much it weighs. This used to be a hallmark of bottom
feeders such as JC Whitney and Harbor Freight.

I first really noticed it when I ordered a couple of small gifts for my
grandson from Lee Valley. Shipping was $11.50. The order weighed 14 oz
including packaging.

I live out in the hinterland and everything comes by FedEx or UPS. Even
the nearest Lowe's is 40 miles away. This really hurts.
--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

This subject comes up at least once or twice a year. At times, the charges
seem high, but the basic cost is fixed, no matter the value and no matter
the weight. Thee is a cost to process the order and do the paperwork. Then
the rest starts to happen. You need a carton, you need an order picker, you
need labor and packing material to get it all together, then there are the
actual UPS or whatever carrier charges. The $10 shipping really get
annoying when you need a $2 knob for the toaster. With tools and supplies,
it is an incentive to make a larger order.

The cost can vary considerably from one business to another. Amazon, for
instance, offers free shipping on $25+ orders. They are highly automated.
My company will not accept an order less that $300 and we ship freight
collect. We are not set up to handle small stuff.

Gerald Ross wrote:
Have you noticed that most of the woodworking supply companies have
quietly changed over to shipping charges being based on how much you pay
for rather than how much it weighs.

I have noticed - I wonder if they've noticed that I've been ordering
less from them...

....probably not.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:02:52 -0600, the infamous "Leon"
scrawled the following:


"Gerald Ross" wrote in message
m...
Have you noticed that most of the woodworking supply companies have
quietly changed over to shipping charges being based on how much you pay
for rather than how much it weighs. This used to be a hallmark of bottom
feeders such as JC Whitney and Harbor Freight.

I first really noticed it when I ordered a couple of small gifts for my
grandson from Lee Valley. Shipping was $11.50. The order weighed 14 oz
including packaging.

I live out in the hinterland and everything comes by FedEx or UPS. Even
the nearest Lowe's is 40 miles away. This really hurts.
--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

It's a damned poor mind that can only
think of one way to spell a word.


Would it be cheaper for you to return it to Lee Valley?

Yeah, $4.95 PRIORITY MAIL. sigh


--
We have too many high sounding words, and too few actions that correspond
with them. -- Abigail Adams, letter to John Adams, 1774

On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:33:15 -0600, the infamous Dave Balderstone
scrawled the following:

In article , Doug Miller
wrote:

Easily. Hell, I can manage that in my old truck -- 85 Dodge, 360 4bbl, about
17mpg on the highway -- and most cars will do far better. At the rate I paid
last time I filled up, $11.50 is 4.75 gallons, which will take my Saturn SL2
considerably farther than 80 miles. Like more than *twice* that.

Of course, that disregards the value of my *time* to drive 80 miles...

I didn't ask "can you use less than $11.50 in gas to drive 80 miles?",
Doug.

I asked "Can you drive 80 miles for $11.50?"

Your answer appears to be "No."

The real ****er is that the other item he bought last week, for
example, cost $1.80 for the same size and weight but from a longer
distance. And the book from across the country cost $2.37, etc.

Some of us feel that exorbitant shipping fees are unfair. YMOV

--
We have too many high sounding words, and too few actions that correspond
with them. -- Abigail Adams, letter to John Adams, 1774

On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:26:27 -0600, the infamous Morris Dovey
scrawled the following:

Gerald Ross wrote:
Have you noticed that most of the woodworking supply companies have
quietly changed over to shipping charges being based on how much you pay
for rather than how much it weighs.

I have noticed - I wonder if they've noticed that I've been ordering
less from them...

...probably not.

I'll bet Rob pops up here and gives an unequivocal "Yes" to that
query, but it's more likely from our devalued dollar than from his
company's shipping policy degradation. Overall, not from individuals.

Next time, Gerald, call Rob and ask him to pop it in an envelope for
you. bseg

--
We have too many high sounding words, and too few actions that correspond
with them. -- Abigail Adams, letter to John Adams, 1774

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

Would it be cheaper for you to return it to Lee Valley?

Yeah, $4.95 PRIORITY MAIL. sigh


Will you be walking it there?

On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 11:34:16 -0600, the infamous Dave Balderstone
scrawled the following:

In article , Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:33:15 -0600, the infamous Dave Balderstone
scrawled the following:

In article , Doug Miller
wrote:

Easily. Hell, I can manage that in my old truck -- 85 Dodge, 360 4bbl,
about
17mpg on the highway -- and most cars will do far better. At the rate I
paid
last time I filled up, $11.50 is 4.75 gallons, which will take my Saturn
SL2
considerably farther than 80 miles. Like more than *twice* that.

Of course, that disregards the value of my *time* to drive 80 miles...

I didn't ask "can you use less than $11.50 in gas to drive 80 miles?",
Doug.

I asked "Can you drive 80 miles for $11.50?"

Your answer appears to be "No."

The real ****er is that the other item he bought last week, for
example, cost $1.80 for the same size and weight but from a longer
distance. And the book from across the country cost $2.37, etc.

Some of us feel that exorbitant shipping fees are unfair. YMOV

Oh, I agree with that. I wanted to by the son a shirt from
ThinkGeek.com for his birthday but shipping from the US to Canada would
have doubled the price.

So I didn't buy it.

It's a very simple equation involving value received for money spent.

Ayup. Unfortunately, that works both ways between the US and CA. I
can no longer afford to buy Lee Valley tools, so I treasure those I
already have. The stainless transplant spade (sucker looks chromed!)
and the scraper set are real keepers, as are a dozen other items I
used to import from there. Sest lavvy.

(For those of you in Rio Linda, that last item is "C'est la vie" in
Merkin.")

--
We have too many high sounding words, and too few actions that correspond
with them. -- Abigail Adams, letter to John Adams, 1774

On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 11:57:27 -0600, the infamous "Leon"
scrawled the following:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .

Would it be cheaper for you to return it to Lee Valley?

Yeah, $4.95 PRIORITY MAIL. sigh


Will you be walking it there?

Yes, all the way to the mailbox. I'll be putting up the red flag by
myself, too. Want to see the video on Youtube?

--
We have too many high sounding words, and too few actions that correspond
with them. -- Abigail Adams, letter to John Adams, 1774

On 2009-11-21 09:42:22 -0500, Larry Jaques
said:

The real ****er is that the other item he bought last week, for
example, cost $1.80 for the same size and weight but from a longer
distance. And the book from across the country cost $2.37, etc.

Nope, the real ****er is spending $8 shipping on a $3.02 order, and
then finding FedEx has "incorrectly" scanned the package for customer
pick-up. When I thought to track the order, I found it had been sitting
at the terminal for four days. Took two days more (and three phone
calls) for them to actually deliver the damn thing.

And no, I got no notification the package had arrived, nor did I get a
meaningful apology.

I'm sure this is an isolated incident...

In article , "Leon" wrote:

Add wear and tear on the vehicle, maintainance, pro-rated insurance. The
governmant allows you a bit over 50 cents per mile when used for business
purposes. That is probably a bit shy of actual cost.

Typically a 80 mile trip really costs you about $40.

Naaah. I do most of my own maintenance; I'm a careful driver, so my insurance
costs are low (less than a nickel a mile); I buy only used cars, so my
ownership cost is also low. *By far* my biggest cost in operating most of the
vehicles I've owned is the cost of gasoline.

In article 201120092133152209%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone. ca, Dave Balderstone wrote:
In article , Doug Miller
wrote:

Easily. Hell, I can manage that in my old truck -- 85 Dodge, 360 4bbl, about
17mpg on the highway -- and most cars will do far better. At the rate I paid
last time I filled up, $11.50 is 4.75 gallons, which will take my Saturn SL2
considerably farther than 80 miles. Like more than *twice* that.

Of course, that disregards the value of my *time* to drive 80 miles...

I didn't ask "can you use less than $11.50 in gas to drive 80 miles?",
Doug.

I asked "Can you drive 80 miles for $11.50?"

Your answer appears to be "No."

Just depends on how you measure the cost. g

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 11:57:27 -0600, the infamous "Leon"
scrawled the following:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..

Would it be cheaper for you to return it to Lee Valley?

Yeah, $4.95 PRIORITY MAIL. sigh


Will you be walking it there?

Yes, all the way to the mailbox. I'll be putting up the red flag by
myself, too. Want to see the video on Youtube?


Yeah, you gotta link? How many stamps did you put on it? LOL

Leon wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 11:57:27 -0600, the infamous "Leon"
scrawled the following:

Will you be walking it there?
Yes, all the way to the mailbox. I'll be putting up the red flag by
myself, too. Want to see the video on Youtube?

Yeah, you gotta link? How many stamps did you put on it? LOL

Leon, I think they're maybe not treating you right - if I leave a note
in the mailbox (or phone the PO, or ask the carrier) they even bring me
the boxes (got some small ones beside me right now). The mail carrier
picks 'em up and will take a personal check for postage.

They even put the stamp on _for_ me.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Doug Miller wrote:

In article , "Leon" wrote:


Add wear and tear on the vehicle, maintainance, pro-rated insurance. The
governmant allows you a bit over 50 cents per mile when used for business
purposes. That is probably a bit shy of actual cost.

Typically a 80 mile trip really costs you about $40.


Naaah. I do most of my own maintenance; I'm a careful driver, so my insurance
costs are low (less than a nickel a mile); I buy only used cars, so my
ownership cost is also low. *By far* my biggest cost in operating most of the
vehicles I've owned is the cost of gasoline.

If you look at it from a business point where time is money what would
it cost if you added in even a minimum wage rate for your time?

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 16:24:25 -0600, the infamous "Leon"
scrawled the following:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 11:57:27 -0600, the infamous "Leon"
scrawled the following:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

Would it be cheaper for you to return it to Lee Valley?

Yeah, $4.95 PRIORITY MAIL. sigh


Will you be walking it there?

Yes, all the way to the mailbox. I'll be putting up the red flag by
myself, too. Want to see the video on Youtube?


Yeah, you gotta link? How many stamps did you put on it? LOL

Silly. Youtube doesn't need stamps.


--
We have too many high sounding words, and too few actions that correspond
with them. -- Abigail Adams, letter to John Adams, 1774

In article , Nova wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

In article , "Leon"
wrote:


Add wear and tear on the vehicle, maintainance, pro-rated insurance. The
governmant allows you a bit over 50 cents per mile when used for business
purposes. That is probably a bit shy of actual cost.

Typically a 80 mile trip really costs you about $40.


Naaah. I do most of my own maintenance; I'm a careful driver, so my insurance
costs are low (less than a nickel a mile); I buy only used cars, so my
ownership cost is also low. *By far* my biggest cost in operating most of the
vehicles I've owned is the cost of gasoline.

If you look at it from a business point where time is money what would
it cost if you added in even a minimum wage rate for your time?

Still a whole lot less than if I were paying someone else to do the
maintenance...

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
Yeah, you gotta link? How many stamps did you put on it? LOL

Leon, I think they're maybe not treating you right - if I leave a note in
the mailbox (or phone the PO, or ask the carrier) they even bring me the
boxes (got some small ones beside me right now). The mail carrier picks
'em up and will take a personal check for postage.

They even put the stamp on _for_ me.

LOL... Actually I have "one" of the last few good postmen. In my
neighborhood he still drives to each mail box at the ends of the driveways.
BUT he often stops and carries my mail up to my garage if he sees me working
on a project.

We watch each others back. A few days ago he was driving down the street
and I saw him coming so I walked out to meet him and pick up my mail. A
"crazy" lady was running down the sidewalk chasing him, arms flailing. When
he stopped to hand me the mail she caught up, out of breath. We both looked
at her while she asked, do you have any mail for me?

He looks at her and asks, who are you? She does not answer. Again he asks,
who are you? She finally responds, I am a resident. Again he asks, who are
you? She responds, do you have any mail for me?

He looks at me, I look at him, I look at her and respond, he wants to know
your name and probably your address. I further point out that I appreciate
the fact that he does not hand out mail to people he does not recognize and
that are chasing him down the street.

She never identified herself or exactly where she lived. She left, yelling
less than pleasant comments about him.

Unfortunately he is going to retire in the Spring and will probably be
replaced by one of the ones that typically take 3 trips to our neighborhood
to deliver all the mail all day long. There are only 250 homes in our
neighborhood.

On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 08:25:23 -0600, the infamous "Leon"
scrawled the following:


"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
Yeah, you gotta link? How many stamps did you put on it? LOL

Leon, I think they're maybe not treating you right - if I leave a note in
the mailbox (or phone the PO, or ask the carrier) they even bring me the
boxes (got some small ones beside me right now). The mail carrier picks
'em up and will take a personal check for postage.

They even put the stamp on _for_ me.

LOL... Actually I have "one" of the last few good postmen. In my
neighborhood he still drives to each mail box at the ends of the driveways.
BUT he often stops and carries my mail up to my garage if he sees me working
on a project.

We watch each others back. A few days ago he was driving down the street
and I saw him coming so I walked out to meet him and pick up my mail. A
"crazy" lady was running down the sidewalk chasing him, arms flailing. When
he stopped to hand me the mail she caught up, out of breath. We both looked
at her while she asked, do you have any mail for me?

He looks at her and asks, who are you? She does not answer. Again he asks,
who are you? She finally responds, I am a resident. Again he asks, who are
you? She responds, do you have any mail for me?

He looks at me, I look at him, I look at her and respond, he wants to know
your name and probably your address. I further point out that I appreciate
the fact that he does not hand out mail to people he does not recognize and
that are chasing him down the street.

She never identified herself or exactly where she lived. She left, yelling
less than pleasant comments about him.

She got exactly what she deserved. He played it safe and your
neighborhood mail is safer for it. Here in quaint little Grants Pass,
we have a neighbor who snoops in other mailboxes. The neighbor who is
being sued (snoop is apparently trying to steal her land through an
old homesteader law. "I've set my stuff here for over 10 years, so now
it's mine!") has lost mail from social security, her attorney, and
several utilities. I saw her snoop in another box while she was
jogging by with her dog, which is never kept on a leash. I wish I'd
had a camera so we could put the bitch away.


Unfortunately he is going to retire in the Spring and will probably be
replaced by one of the ones that typically take 3 trips to our neighborhood
to deliver all the mail all day long. There are only 250 homes in our
neighborhood.

Yeah, those new guys just don't know what efficiency is or how to milk
a Civil Service job, do they? I had to ask mine to kindly finish
closing the box after he's done putting mail it it, especially during
the rainy days. I got two days of soggy mail in one week and then
wrote the letter. He's one of the new guys, and it appears that our
outlying area is one of the training or penalty routes. We get a whole
lot of new faces driving the route each year, sometimes each month.
sigh

--
We have too many high sounding words, and too few actions that correspond
with them. -- Abigail Adams, letter to John Adams, 1774

Larry Jaques wrote:

Yeah, those new guys just don't know what efficiency is or how to milk
a Civil Service job, do they? I had to ask mine to kindly finish
closing the box after he's done putting mail it it, especially during
the rainy days. I got two days of soggy mail in one week and then
wrote the letter. He's one of the new guys, and it appears that our
outlying area is one of the training or penalty routes. We get a whole
lot of new faces driving the route each year, sometimes each month.
sigh

Manifestation of the dumbing down of America through education can often
be observed first at the USPS, where even that paltry bit of education
is beyond the available intelligence.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 09:26:56 -0600, Swingman wrote:


Manifestation of the dumbing down of America through education can often
be observed first at the USPS, where even that paltry bit of education
is beyond the available intelligence.

We moved into this development when it was still being built out and
the road was not completed yet. The shape is now like a P but at the
time it was like a Y, loop not connected yet. Called post office and
asked if they had any preference as to where the mail box ought to be.
Postmaster says "Put it anywhere you want." Seemed pretty annoyed at
being asked at all.

Fast forward two years and the road is long since completed, all the
lots are built out and moved into. Everyone on our side of the road
suddenly gets a letter saying we have to move our mailboxes to the
other side of the road.

Call up Mr Postmaster again. You see, they did a ride along to
observe the route. And you see, the mail carrier goes half way around
the loop, TURNS AROUND, goes back around the other way, TURNS AROUND
again, and back again. And you see, all of that TURNING AROUND is
unsafe. And the only solution is to move the ****ing mailboxes.


And yes, the mailboxes got moved.


-Kevin

On Nov 20, 8:15*pm, Dave Balderstone
wrote:
In article , Gerald Ross

wrote:
Have you noticed that most of the woodworking supply companies have
quietly changed over to shipping charges being based on how much you
pay for rather than how much it weighs. This used to be a hallmark of
bottom feeders such as JC Whitney and Harbor Freight.

I first really noticed it when I ordered a couple of small gifts for
my grandson from Lee Valley. Shipping was $11.50. The order weighed 14
oz including packaging.

I live out in the hinterland and everything comes by FedEx or UPS.
Even the nearest Lowe's is 40 miles away. This really hurts.

Can you drive 80 miles for $11.50?

Not if you figure your time is worth anything.

On Nov 21, 9:42*am, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:33:15 -0600, the infamous Dave Balderstone
scrawled the following:



In article , Doug Miller
wrote:

Easily. Hell, I can manage that in my old truck -- 85 Dodge, 360 4bbl, about
17mpg on the highway -- and most cars will do far better. At the rate I paid
last time I filled up, $11.50 is 4.75 gallons, which will take my Saturn SL2
considerably farther than 80 miles. Like more than *twice* that.

Of course, that disregards the value of my *time* to drive 80 miles...

I didn't ask "can you use less than $11.50 in gas to drive 80 miles?",
Doug.

I asked "Can you drive 80 miles for $11.50?"

Your answer appears to be "No."

The real ****er is that the other item he bought last week, for
example, cost $1.80 for the same size and weight but from a longer
distance. And the book from across the country cost $2.37, etc.

Some of us feel that exorbitant shipping fees are unfair. YMOV

--
We have too many high sounding words, and too few actions that correspond
with them. * * * * * * * * -- Abigail Adams, letter to John Adams, 1774

I've been ebaying some books in recent weeks. Through eBay most ship
for a mailing cost of $2.57. I charge $3.99. The envelope costs me 95
cents, and I have to make a 22 mile round trip to hit a post office
with them--they're all over 13 ounces, so cannot be shipped unless you
personally hand the package to the postal clerk. I'm sure I could get
the cost down by buying 200 envelopes, but I doubt that I'll sell more
than another two dozen books, so that doesn't make sense. Too, that
doesn't take into consideration the cost of a sheet of paper, tape and
ink to print and affix the labels and postage.

In recent years, shipping has turned from an important but low cost to
an important but much higher cost. People think they're getting
screwed. Maybe they are in a few cases, but in general, flat rate
shipping seems to me to be a break even deal for most items shipped
for most companies.

On Nov 22, 10:26*am, Swingman wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:
Yeah, those new guys just don't know what efficiency is or how to milk
a Civil Service job, do they? *I had to ask mine to kindly finish
closing the box after he's done putting mail it it, especially during
the rainy days. I got two days of soggy mail in one week and then
wrote the letter. He's one of the new guys, and it appears that our
outlying area is one of the training or penalty routes. We get a whole
lot of new faces driving the route each year, sometimes each month.
sigh

Manifestation of the dumbing down of America through education can often
be observed first at the USPS, where even that paltry bit of education
is beyond the available intelligence.

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

I dunno. I sometimes think it's how far into an urban area you live,
or how close. We're rural. Our mail carrier retired two or three years
ago, after about 35 years on the job. She lived three miles up the
road and had the route arranged so she delivered all 300+ road boxes
in time to get home and make a late lunch. She was never late, never
lost mail, unfailingly helped out with mail problems, etc.

Our new carrier took about a year to set the route up to her needs,
but she is still far from making it home for a late lunch. Still, in
her short time, she's gone from delivering our mail at anywhere from 2
p.m. to 3:30 p.m. to getting it here by 1:45 a.m. most days. She also
has never lost a letter or package, drives larger stuff down to our
door instead of dropping it under the box, and is generally excellent
and improving. She is afraid of dogs. The first time I opened the door
and mutt came scampering out, it terrified her. Our mutt is a terrier-
dachshund that is about 9" tall and weighs 17 fairly pudgy pounds. She
also is the world's friendliest dog, which is rough on people afraid
of dogs--she runs up to them wagging her tail and wiggling in
anticipation of a new person to sniff.

Sometimes I think a lot of it has to do with localized work ethics.
We're fortunate.

Charlie Self wrote:

Our new carrier took about a year to set the route up to her needs,
but she is still far from making it home for a late lunch. Still, in
her short time, she's gone from delivering our mail at anywhere from 2
p.m. to 3:30 p.m. to getting it here by 1:45 a.m. most days.

So you can read the mail before breakfast! Have another cup of
coffee, Charlie. :)

Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

It's a damned poor mind that can only
think of one way to spell a word.

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 03:00:43 -0800 (PST), the infamous Charlie Self
scrawled the following:

On Nov 21, 9:42*am, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:33:15 -0600, the infamous Dave Balderstone
scrawled the following:



In article , Doug Miller
wrote:

Easily. Hell, I can manage that in my old truck -- 85 Dodge, 360 4bbl, about
17mpg on the highway -- and most cars will do far better. At the rate I paid
last time I filled up, $11.50 is 4.75 gallons, which will take my Saturn SL2
considerably farther than 80 miles. Like more than *twice* that.

Of course, that disregards the value of my *time* to drive 80 miles...

I didn't ask "can you use less than $11.50 in gas to drive 80 miles?",
Doug.

I asked "Can you drive 80 miles for $11.50?"

Your answer appears to be "No."

The real ****er is that the other item he bought last week, for
example, cost $1.80 for the same size and weight but from a longer
distance. And the book from across the country cost $2.37, etc.

Some of us feel that exorbitant shipping fees are unfair. YMOV

--
We have too many high sounding words, and too few actions that correspond
with them. * * * * * * * * -- Abigail Adams, letter to John Adams, 1774

I've been ebaying some books in recent weeks. Through eBay most ship
for a mailing cost of $2.57. I charge $3.99. The envelope costs me 95
cents, and I have to make a 22 mile round trip to hit a post office
with them--they're all over 13 ounces, so cannot be shipped unless you
personally hand the package to the postal clerk. I'm sure I could get
the cost down by buying 200 envelopes, but I doubt that I'll sell more
than another two dozen books, so that doesn't make sense. Too, that
doesn't take into consideration the cost of a sheet of paper, tape and
ink to print and affix the labels and postage.

Priced 'em on eBay? It's a whole 'nother world there. I've found
9x12" bubble envelopes at Walgreens at 3/$1 on sale, too.


In recent years, shipping has turned from an important but low cost to
an important but much higher cost. People think they're getting
screwed. Maybe they are in a few cases, but in general, flat rate
shipping seems to me to be a break even deal for most items shipped
for most companies.

Charlie, I ship my NoteSHADES(tm) and tees out using Stamps.com
electronic stamps and my own mailbox. Why aren't you taking advantage
of this wonderful resource? It sure beats going to the post office
even once a week. I pay $15.99/mo and can ship boxes, envelopes, and
large envelopes via all USPS methods. The USPS gives me boxes (though
they get it back in Priority Mail fees) and I print my own stamps. The
USPS also has a cut-back program. Some months I don't ship anything,
so it's not entirely cost-effective, but it sure saves time (and
extreme hassle, especially near holidays) when I do use it.

www.stamps.com , www.endicia.com , and
http://www.usps.com/onlinepostage/welcome.htm

--
It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare;
it is because we do not dare that they are difficult.
-- Seneca

Charlie Self wrote:

Not if you figure your time is worth anything.


Time only has worth if it would be spent producing income instead of
doing the task in question.

In most cases, we'd be spending that time posting in newsgroups which
produces no income. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
Charlie Self wrote:

Not if you figure your time is worth anything.


Time only has worth if it would be spent producing income instead of doing
the task in question.


..Well that is not entirely true. You could be doing something more
productive that would be a savings. Mowing the yard instead of having
paying some one else to to that.




In most cases, we'd be spending that time posting in newsgroups which
produces no income. :-)


Well actually I have cultivated several customers from this group.

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...

Time only has worth if it would be spent producing income instead of doing
the task in question.

In most cases, we'd be spending that time posting in newsgroups which
produces no income. :-)


--
The time you spend with your wife has no worth? How about the time spent
with your kids? Worthless? It must be a real PIA to be worthless for 2/3 of
your day. Weekends must be really bad. Then there are holidays. Must really
suck.

CW wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
Time only has worth if it would be spent producing income instead of doing
the task in question.

In most cases, we'd be spending that time posting in newsgroups which
produces no income. :-)


--
The time you spend with your wife has no worth? How about the time spent
with your kids? Worthless? It must be a real PIA to be worthless for 2/3 of
your day. Weekends must be really bad. Then there are holidays. Must really
suck.


I presumed we were talking about work time. I assumed whatever he was
purchasing was work related, ie: income producing. Most guy who post in
here during the day are either retired, self-employed, or posting from
work (tsk-tsk). I post here, when i should be in the shop building
something. :-)

Yes, time invested in family is worth more than any paycheck.
I forget the quote, but it's something like...
"No man on his deathbed ever said 'I wish I had spent more time at the
office.'"


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:46:47 -0600, the infamous "Leon"
scrawled the following:


"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...

In most cases, we'd be spending that time posting in newsgroups which
produces no income. :-)


Well actually I have cultivated several customers from this group.

I did, too, years back. I have a whole stable of Knight planes as a
result of one. I think his website is 3 gens beyond mine now.

I'll have to do that again this year, huh?

--
It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare;
it is because we do not dare that they are difficult.
-- Seneca

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:46:47 -0600, the infamous "Leon"
scrawled the following:


"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...

In most cases, we'd be spending that time posting in newsgroups which
produces no income. :-)


Well actually I have cultivated several customers from this group.

I did, too, years back. I have a whole stable of Knight planes as a
result of one. I think his website is 3 gens beyond mine now.

I'll have to do that again this year, huh?

Haven't seen Steve Knight on here in ages. Just took a look at his web
page, looks like he is still going strong.


--

There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage

Rob Leatham