Hi everyone
I got my gas bill today and it makes for some instresting
reading, If I am right. This this a way to bill all customers a pound
or two more on their bill.
My bill reads

Start date 05/09/05 meter reading 4594(actual read)
end date 16/10/05 meter reading 4703( estimted)
units used 109 @1.554 makes £18.91 for 42 days

Then the price goes up

start date 17/10/05 meter reading4703 (estimated)
end date 04/12/05 meter reading 4927 (actual read)
units used 224 @1.764 makes £44.12 for 49 days


My point is I know that I used 333 units over the total 91 days but not
that my gas
use almost doubled after the price rise. Seeing that at the date of
the change over point for the price rise ,Scottish Power Manweb had no
ideal how much gas I have
really used until my meter was read on the 04/12/05. In other words I
think I used more gas at the lower price and less gas at the higher
price.


Mike Cole

On 9 Dec 2005 09:13:58 -0800, "mike" wrote:

Hi everyone
I got my gas bill today and it makes for some instresting
reading, If I am right. This this a way to bill all customers a pound
or two more on their bill.
My bill reads

Start date 05/09/05 meter reading 4594(actual read)
end date 16/10/05 meter reading 4703( estimted)
units used 109 @1.554 makes £18.91 for 42 days

Then the price goes up

start date 17/10/05 meter reading4703 (estimated)
end date 04/12/05 meter reading 4927 (actual read)
units used 224 @1.764 makes £44.12 for 49 days


My point is I know that I used 333 units over the total 91 days but not
that my gas
use almost doubled after the price rise. Seeing that at the date of
the change over point for the price rise ,Scottish Power Manweb had no
ideal how much gas I have
really used until my meter was read on the 04/12/05. In other words I
think I used more gas at the lower price and less gas at the higher
price.


Mike Cole

Tell them you have been plotting the daily use of your gas and just
happen to have the exact meter reading for that day as a result.
)

On 9 Dec 2005 09:13:58 -0800, "mike" wrote:

My point is I know that I used 333 units over the total 91 days but not
that my gas
use almost doubled after the price rise. Seeing that at the date of
the change over point for the price rise ,Scottish Power Manweb had no
ideal how much gas I have
really used until my meter was read on the 04/12/05. In other words I
think I used more gas at the lower price and less gas at the higher
price.

Write back and dispute the bill, tell them that the house has been
unoccupied from 17/10 - 4/12

:-)


--

"mike" wrote in message
ups.com...
My point is I know that I used 333 units over the total 91 days but not
that my gas
use almost doubled after the price rise. Seeing that at the date of
the change over point for the price rise ,Scottish Power Manweb had no
ideal how much gas I have
really used until my meter was read on the 04/12/05. In other words I
think I used more gas at the lower price and less gas at the higher
price.


Mike Cole


I'd contact the regulator - I'm sure they would take a very dim view of this
sort of underhand practice!
Jon

Jonathan Pearson wrote:
"mike" wrote in message
ups.com...
My point is I know that I used 333 units over the total 91 days but
not that my gas
use almost doubled after the price rise. Seeing that at the date of
the change over point for the price rise ,Scottish Power Manweb had
no ideal how much gas I have
really used until my meter was read on the 04/12/05. In other words I
think I used more gas at the lower price and less gas at the higher
price.


Mike Cole


I'd contact the regulator - I'm sure they would take a very dim view
of this sort of underhand practice!
Jon

It was an estimation, and probably by someone who can't add up, the correct
standing bill will be formalised when he submits his own reading.

This is why I like using prepayment meters...save the hassle of missing the
meter reader and getting in touch with the supplier and recieving paperwork
--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:


It was an estimation, and probably by someone who can't add up, the
correct standing bill will be formalised when he submits his own
reading.

That's not what he said. The start and end of the quarter were *actual*
readings. What was estimated was the reading on the date when the price went
up part-way through the quarter. OP claims (but probably has no direct
evidence) that the actual reading on that date would have been higher than
the estimate - so that more of the quarter's consumption should have been
charged at the old lower price and less at the new higher price.

The fairest way to make an estimate may be pro-rata with number of days -
but that wouldn't really work in the spring when consumption is going down
with time.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

Jonathan Pearson wrote:

I'd contact the regulator - I'm sure they would take a very dim view of this
sort of underhand practice!

Why is it underhand? Price change readings are almost always estimated;
it's perfectly standard industry practice. To demonstrate malpractice
you'd have to show that the estimating algorithm being used was unfair.

Over the dates given by the OP, it was very much colder during the
second period then during the first, so it's entirely plausible that the
daily gas consumption would be much higher during the second period.
But it's just not worth getting worked up about, because any error only
applies to the difference between the old and new prices. I calculated,
roughly, that if the OP had had an even rate of consumption, the bill
would have been about £1.40 less, even after adding 5% VAT.

In any case, IME, if you can supply your own more accurate (and
plausible) figure, it will be accepted.

Oh, and the OP seems to have a metric meter.

--
Andy

In message , Set Square
writes
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:


It was an estimation, and probably by someone who can't add up, the
correct standing bill will be formalised when he submits his own
reading.

That's not what he said. The start and end of the quarter were *actual*
readings. What was estimated was the reading on the date when the price went
up part-way through the quarter. OP claims (but probably has no direct
evidence) that the actual reading on that date would have been higher than
the estimate - so that more of the quarter's consumption should have been
charged at the old lower price and less at the new higher price.

The fairest way to make an estimate may be pro-rata with number of days -
but that wouldn't really work in the spring when consumption is going down
with time.

Or in this case the autumn quarter, with consumption rising through
October and into November.
TBH, I think the OP's bill was fine, I would expect mid-October-November
consumption to be at least twice that of September-mid-October.

--
steve

Andy Wade wrote:
Jonathan Pearson wrote:

I'd contact the regulator - I'm sure they would take a very dim view
of this sort of underhand practice!

Why is it underhand? Price change readings are almost always
estimated; it's perfectly standard industry practice. To demonstrate
malpractice you'd have to show that the estimating algorithm being
used was unfair.
Over the dates given by the OP, it was very much colder during the
second period then during the first, so it's entirely plausible that
the daily gas consumption would be much higher during the second
period. But it's just not worth getting worked up about, because any
error only applies to the difference between the old and new prices. I
calculated, roughly, that if the OP had had an even rate of
consumption, the bill would have been about £1.40 less, even after
adding 5% VAT.
In any case, IME, if you can supply your own more accurate (and
plausible) figure, it will be accepted.

Oh, and the OP seems to have a metric meter.

Rubbish!!!

Scottish power has 5million customers, hence if everyone is chraged an extra
£1.40, then that makes them an additional £7400,000 for trying it on -
hopefully the regulator will throw the book at them!

Jon

Scottish power has 5million customers, hence if everyone is chraged an extra
£1.40, then that makes them an additional £7400,000 for trying it on -
hopefully the regulator will throw the book at them!

The chief exec now gets over £1M per year. Customers need to be milked
a little every now and then :-p

--
Please add the word "newsgroup" in the subject line of personal emails
**** My email address includes "ngspamtrap" and " ****

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Steven Briggs wrote:


The fairest way to make an estimate may be pro-rata with number of
days - but that wouldn't really work in the spring when consumption
is going down with time.

Or in this case the autumn quarter, with consumption rising through
October and into November.
TBH, I think the OP's bill was fine, I would expect
mid-October-November consumption to be at least twice that of
September-mid-October.

Quite. The point which I was trying to make - maybe not too
successfully(!) - was that if a price increase had occurred in the spring
quarter, where the daily consumption was going *down*, the OP would have
objected to an estimate based on a flat rate of consumption. But he would
have accepted a flat rate in the autumn when consumption is rising. He can't
have it both ways!
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
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"mike" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi everyone
I got my gas bill today and it makes for some instresting
reading, If I am right. This this a way to bill all customers a pound
or two more on their bill.
My bill reads

Start date 05/09/05 meter reading 4594(actual read)
end date 16/10/05 meter reading 4703( estimted)
units used 109 @1.554 makes £18.91 for 42 days

Then the price goes up

start date 17/10/05 meter reading4703 (estimated)
end date 04/12/05 meter reading 4927 (actual read)
units used 224 @1.764 makes £44.12 for 49 days

My point is I know that I used 333 units over the total 91 days but not
that my gas use almost doubled after the price rise. Seeing that at the date
of
the change over point for the price rise, Scottish Power Manweb had no
idea how much gas I have really used until my meter was read on the
04/12/05.
In other words I think I used more gas at the lower price and less gas at
the higher
price.

Mike Cole


SP maths do look inflationary but surely the second period would have been a
bit
colder.
IMO, as long as the gas provider has a trustworthy (meter staff) reading
once a
year, can be whenever, its accountants are happy.
As you regret being fleeced for gas by SP, you ought to move away to
taking up a dual-fuel direct-debit plan with nPower promising an annual
payback. They apparently guarantee no rises nor fuel-price hikes till 2007.
And yet these passed-on bulk price rises would affect the whole of Europe's
energy customers. We're happy.

"Jim Gregory" wrote in message
...
"mike" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi everyone
I got my gas bill today and it makes for some instresting
reading, If I am right. This this a way to bill all customers a pound
or two more on their bill.
My bill reads

Start date 05/09/05 meter reading 4594(actual read)
end date 16/10/05 meter reading 4703( estimted)
units used 109 @1.554 makes £18.91 for 42 days

Then the price goes up

start date 17/10/05 meter reading4703 (estimated)
end date 04/12/05 meter reading 4927 (actual read)
units used 224 @1.764 makes £44.12 for 49 days

My point is I know that I used 333 units over the total 91 days but not
that my gas use almost doubled after the price rise. Seeing that at the
date of
the change over point for the price rise, Scottish Power Manweb had no
idea how much gas I have really used until my meter was read on the
04/12/05.
In other words I think I used more gas at the lower price and less gas at
the higher
price.

Mike Cole


SP maths do look inflationary but surely the second period would have been
a bit
colder.
IMO, as long as the gas provider has a trustworthy (meter staff) reading
once a
year, can be whenever, its accountants are happy.
As you regret being fleeced for gas by SP, you ought to move away to
taking up a dual-fuel direct-debit plan with nPower promising an annual
payback. They apparently guarantee no rises nor fuel-price hikes till
2007.
And yet these passed-on bulk price rises would affect the whole of
Europe's
energy customers. We're happy.

Oops!
I was so wrong about no price rises! Just heard today from nPower about
their -new- prices for credit customers as from 1 Jan 2006 ...
Elect Standard - over 728 kWh pa - will charge @ 7.85p per kWh unit (if
under, @ 15.18p)
Gas Standard - over 4572 kWh pa - will charge @ 1.80p per kWh unit (if
under, @ 3.45p)
So if you use less energy than index, then it's nearly double the price.
all prices excluding VAT
Annual discount for monthly Direct Debit dual-fuel increased to £60.
How does this compare with next year's Scottish Power ManWeb prices?
Jim

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Jim Gregory wrote:


Oops!
I was so wrong about no price rises! Just heard today from nPower
about their -new- prices for credit customers as from 1 Jan 2006 ...
Elect Standard - over 728 kWh pa - will charge @ 7.85p per kWh unit
(if under, @ 15.18p)
Gas Standard - over 4572 kWh pa - will charge @ 1.80p per kWh unit
(if under, @ 3.45p)
So if you use less energy than index, then it's nearly double the
price. all prices excluding VAT
Annual discount for monthly Direct Debit dual-fuel increased to £60.
How does this compare with next year's Scottish Power ManWeb prices?
Jim

Don't know about the latest prices, but I'm on a Scottish Power tariff which
has frozen prices until the end of 2006. I am paying:
Gas: 1.326p per kWh and a standing charge of 56.34pa
Electricity: 4.82p per kWh and a standing charge of 63.24pa

These prices are *inclusive* of 5% VAT, and subject to a total annual dual
fuel/on-line discount of 10.50pa

The equivalent Npower prices from above (inc of VAT, and calculating
effecting standing charges a
Gas 1.89p + 79.21pa
Electricity: 8.24 + 56.03pa

I know which I'd rather have!
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
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Set Square wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Jim Gregory wrote:


Oops!
I was so wrong about no price rises! Just heard today from nPower
about their -new- prices for credit customers as from 1 Jan 2006 ...
Elect Standard - over 728 kWh pa - will charge @ 7.85p per kWh unit
(if under, @ 15.18p)
Gas Standard - over 4572 kWh pa - will charge @ 1.80p per kWh unit
(if under, @ 3.45p)
So if you use less energy than index, then it's nearly double the
price. all prices excluding VAT
Annual discount for monthly Direct Debit dual-fuel increased to £60.
How does this compare with next year's Scottish Power ManWeb prices?
Jim

Don't know about the latest prices, but I'm on a Scottish Power
tariff which has frozen prices until the end of 2006. I am paying:
Gas: 1.326p per kWh and a standing charge of 56.34pa
Electricity: 4.82p per kWh and a standing charge of 63.24pa

These prices are *inclusive* of 5% VAT, and subject to a total annual
dual fuel/on-line discount of 10.50pa

The equivalent Npower prices from above (inc of VAT, and calculating
effecting standing charges a
Gas 1.89p + 79.21pa
Electricity: 8.24 + 56.03pa

I know which I'd rather have!


New prices for Npower is Quarterly...
Elect : inc of vat £31.02
at £7.96
Gas : inc of vat £17.41
at £2.15

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite