There's no point to this message, other than I need to vent somewhere...


I'm building a new entertainment center and just bought three sheets of
3/4" birch plywood and one sheet of 1/2" birch plywood from my local Home
Depot. This has to be some of the worst plywood I have ever purchased!

I didn't notice it till I got home and unloaded, but the faces of the
sheet had numerous blemishes and patches (both sides). I should have
looked it over better at the store, BEFORE I started cutting.
Thankfully, I managed to cut around the major blemishes, or hide them in
places where they can't be seen. Unfortunately, this left me a little
short, so now I need to pick up a quarter sheet to build the last two
shelves.

The plywood is also riddled with numerous voids. I don't think I have
made a cut yet that hasn't had pieces of the core falling out.

Even the grain pattern of the sheets is less than attractive. I'm not
sure what kind of birch trees they got the wood from, but this stuff is
ugly!

Perhaps worst of all, the surface veneers are extremely thin and fragile.
It appears to be thinner than a sheet of paper. I bought brand new saw
blades for making this project, and the chipout is absolutely horrible. I
also sanded a couple of pieces yesterday, and can sand through the veneer
in less than 20 seconds with 100 grit paper. Now my project is almost
finished, and I'm almost scared to sand it for fear of sanding through
the veneer and exposing the core.

Worst of all, I paid $40 a sheet for this stuff at Home Depot, and then
saw MUCH better quality lumber at Lowes (where I normally get my plywood)
for only $30 a sheet.

The plywood sucks, but a lot of the fault obviously lies with me. I made
the mistake of shopping on a weekend, when the rest of the DIY crowd was
crowding into the store. I thought the convenience of having my wife and
daughter there to help load the cart would be nice. But, in my attempt to
get in and out of the store, I didn't inspect the sheets closely enough.

Anyway, I'm almost finished with my entertainment center and am happy
with the way it is turning out. Despite the poor quality lumber, I have
managed to hide the worst blemishes. If I can pull off sanding the
project next week without destroying it, there's still a chance it might
turn out OK.

Live and learn...

Anthony

"HerHusband" wrote in message
...
There's no point to this message, other than I need to vent somewhere...


I'm building a new entertainment center and just bought three sheets of
3/4" birch plywood and one sheet of 1/2" birch plywood from my local Home
Depot. This has to be some of the worst plywood I have ever purchased!

I didn't notice it till I got home and unloaded, but the faces of the
sheet had numerous blemishes and patches (both sides). I should have
looked it over better at the store, BEFORE I started cutting.
Thankfully, I managed to cut around the major blemishes, or hide them in
places where they can't be seen. Unfortunately, this left me a little
short, so now I need to pick up a quarter sheet to build the last two
shelves.


Learning to look at what you are buying is a good practice.

BUT when the plywood becomes delaminated or pieces start falling out I Take
It Back. Sure it is cut but the piece is defective, how would you know if
you had not cut it?

"HerHusband" wrote in message
...
There's no point to this message, other than I need to vent somewhere...


I'm building a new entertainment center and just bought three sheets of
3/4" birch plywood and one sheet of 1/2" birch plywood from my local Home
Depot. This has to be some of the worst plywood I have ever purchased!

I didn't notice it till I got home and unloaded, but the faces of the
sheet had numerous blemishes and patches (both sides). I should have
looked it over better at the store, BEFORE I started cutting.
Thankfully, I managed to cut around the major blemishes, or hide them in
places where they can't be seen. Unfortunately, this left me a little
short, so now I need to pick up a quarter sheet to build the last two
shelves.

The plywood is also riddled with numerous voids. I don't think I have
made a cut yet that hasn't had pieces of the core falling out.


Thanks for posting. Now I know where not to buy plywood. I bought some from
Menards. I had to go through the stack before I found 4 acceptable sheets.


Even the grain pattern of the sheets is less than attractive. I'm not
sure what kind of birch trees they got the wood from, but this stuff is
ugly!

Perhaps worst of all, the surface veneers are extremely thin and fragile.
It appears to be thinner than a sheet of paper. I bought brand new saw
blades for making this project, and the chipout is absolutely horrible. I
also sanded a couple of pieces yesterday, and can sand through the veneer
in less than 20 seconds with 100 grit paper. Now my project is almost
finished, and I'm almost scared to sand it for fear of sanding through
the veneer and exposing the core.

Worst of all, I paid $40 a sheet for this stuff at Home Depot, and then
saw MUCH better quality lumber at Lowes (where I normally get my plywood)
for only $30 a sheet.

The plywood sucks, but a lot of the fault obviously lies with me. I made
the mistake of shopping on a weekend, when the rest of the DIY crowd was
crowding into the store. I thought the convenience of having my wife and
daughter there to help load the cart would be nice. But, in my attempt to
get in and out of the store, I didn't inspect the sheets closely enough.

Anyway, I'm almost finished with my entertainment center and am happy
with the way it is turning out. Despite the poor quality lumber, I have
managed to hide the worst blemishes. If I can pull off sanding the
project next week without destroying it, there's still a chance it might
turn out OK.

Live and learn...

Anthony

On May 25, 11:11 am, HerHusband wrote:
There's no point to this message, other than I need to vent somewhere...


I'm building a new entertainment center and just bought three sheets of
3/4" birch plywood and one sheet of 1/2" birch plywood from my local Home
Depot. This has to be some of the worst plywood I have ever purchased!

I didn't notice it till I got home and unloaded, but the faces of the
sheet had numerous blemishes and patches (both sides). I should have
looked it over better at the store, BEFORE I started cutting.
Thankfully, I managed to cut around the major blemishes, or hide them in
places where they can't be seen. Unfortunately, this left me a little
short, so now I need to pick up a quarter sheet to build the last two
shelves.

The plywood is also riddled with numerous voids. I don't think I have
made a cut yet that hasn't had pieces of the core falling out.

Even the grain pattern of the sheets is less than attractive. I'm not
sure what kind of birch trees they got the wood from, but this stuff is
ugly!

Perhaps worst of all, the surface veneers are extremely thin and fragile.
It appears to be thinner than a sheet of paper. I bought brand new saw
blades for making this project, and the chipout is absolutely horrible. I
also sanded a couple of pieces yesterday, and can sand through the veneer
in less than 20 seconds with 100 grit paper. Now my project is almost
finished, and I'm almost scared to sand it for fear of sanding through
the veneer and exposing the core.

Worst of all, I paid $40 a sheet for this stuff at Home Depot, and then
saw MUCH better quality lumber at Lowes (where I normally get my plywood)
for only $30 a sheet.

The plywood sucks, but a lot of the fault obviously lies with me. I made
the mistake of shopping on a weekend, when the rest of the DIY crowd was
crowding into the store. I thought the convenience of having my wife and
daughter there to help load the cart would be nice. But, in my attempt to
get in and out of the store, I didn't inspect the sheets closely enough.

Anyway, I'm almost finished with my entertainment center and am happy
with the way it is turning out. Despite the poor quality lumber, I have
managed to hide the worst blemishes. If I can pull off sanding the
project next week without destroying it, there's still a chance it might
turn out OK.

Live and learn...

Anthony

The Aruca (sp?) at Lowes is decent as far as splintering and has few
voids and it is cheaper than the Birch. Never tried staining it.

Leon,

I'm building a new entertainment center and just bought three sheets
of 3/4" birch plywood and one sheet of 1/2" birch plywood from my
local Home Depot. This has to be some of the worst plywood I have
ever purchased!

Learning to look at what you are buying is a good practice.

Yeah, I usually inspect the lumber I buy with much greater detail, but I
guess I was busy looking at my lady and talking with her instead.

BUT when the plywood becomes delaminated or pieces start falling out I
Take It Back. Sure it is cut but the piece is defective, how would
you know if you had not cut it?

Good point, but it's all hindsight now. Assuming I don't destroy the
project when I start sanding, it will all work out in the end.

Anthony

"HerHusband" wrote in message
...
There's no point to this message, other than I need to vent somewhere...


I'm building a new entertainment center and just bought three sheets of
3/4" birch plywood and one sheet of 1/2" birch plywood from my local Home
Depot. This has to be some of the worst plywood I have ever purchased!

I didn't notice it till I got home and unloaded, but the faces of the
sheet had numerous blemishes and patches (both sides). I should have
looked it over better at the store, BEFORE I started cutting.
Thankfully, I managed to cut around the major blemishes, or hide them in
places where they can't be seen. Unfortunately, this left me a little
short, so now I need to pick up a quarter sheet to build the last two
shelves.

The plywood is also riddled with numerous voids. I don't think I have
made a cut yet that hasn't had pieces of the core falling out.

Even the grain pattern of the sheets is less than attractive. I'm not
sure what kind of birch trees they got the wood from, but this stuff is
ugly!

Perhaps worst of all, the surface veneers are extremely thin and fragile.
It appears to be thinner than a sheet of paper. I bought brand new saw
blades for making this project, and the chipout is absolutely horrible. I
also sanded a couple of pieces yesterday, and can sand through the veneer
in less than 20 seconds with 100 grit paper. Now my project is almost
finished, and I'm almost scared to sand it for fear of sanding through
the veneer and exposing the core.

Worst of all, I paid $40 a sheet for this stuff at Home Depot, and then
saw MUCH better quality lumber at Lowes (where I normally get my plywood)
for only $30 a sheet.

The plywood sucks, but a lot of the fault obviously lies with me. I made
the mistake of shopping on a weekend, when the rest of the DIY crowd was
crowding into the store. I thought the convenience of having my wife and
daughter there to help load the cart would be nice. But, in my attempt to
get in and out of the store, I didn't inspect the sheets closely enough.

Anyway, I'm almost finished with my entertainment center and am happy
with the way it is turning out. Despite the poor quality lumber, I have
managed to hide the worst blemishes. If I can pull off sanding the
project next week without destroying it, there's still a chance it might
turn out OK.

Live and learn...

Anthony

All the more reason to use solid wood instead of plywood.

On May 25, 10:44 am, "efgh" wrote:

All the more reason to use solid wood instead of plywood.- Hide quoted text -


You bet. At about $5.5 a bf for clear birch here, that would make the
material cost around $450 when you include sales tax and a tiny bit of
waste. Makes great sense.

Then of course, you get to do the monster layup. I don't know if you
have ever glued up a really wide,long section of wood, but it can be
really hard to control well once you get past about 16" when doing
larger lengths. Plus with the crappy, poorly dried and conditioned
product we are sold today, my personal experience is that a really
large glue up is more of an adventure than an exercise in skill.

But - think of all the extra time in the shop doing glue ups! Extra
shop time for a much more difficult project, 5 times the price for
material... what's not to like?

Robert

On May 25, 10:44 am, HerHusband wrote:

Assuming I don't destroy the project when I start sanding, it will all work out in the end.

You really need to be extra careful when sanding. I finished up some
tables for the VFW (utility type tables) and this was the material
that was in their budget.

I have never seen face veneer that thin. I don't think you could
spray it on any thinner. I sanded right through that stuff due to
some little bumps in the underlying substrate. Luckily, the face of
the pieces weren't all that interesting, so with some finish on the
top it didn't matter.

I used to buy the "China ply" at HD and it was a decent product. No
matter whose plywood it is, it won't be the baltic/russian/cabinet ply
stuff with no voids at all in the layers of wood, so that wasn't a big
thing.

But the faces on the stuff I bought last week were really bad. The
veneer splintered really badly, some of the pieces were covered with
footballs (plugs), and the pink glue they used to press the plies
together stunk like something was burning.

So for me that stuff has not been relegated to utility/paint grade
material.

I fear that if I go to my hardwood supplier though, his $60 a sheet
birch won't be that much better.

Robert

HerHusband wrote:

There's no point to this message, other than I need to vent
somewhere...


I'm building a new entertainment center and just bought three
sheets of
3/4" birch plywood and one sheet of 1/2" birch plywood from my
local Home
Depot.
snip

Two (2) mistakes:

1) Walking thru the doors of Home Depot.
2) Thinking they even know what Birch cabinet plywood is, much less
sell it.

Plywood distributors exist for a reason.

Lew

On May 25, 11:44 am, HerHusband wrote:
Leon,

I'm building a new entertainment center and just bought three sheets
of 3/4" birch plywood and one sheet of 1/2" birch plywood from my
local Home Depot. This has to be some of the worst plywood I have
ever purchased!
Learning to look at what you are buying is a good practice.

Yeah, I usually inspect the lumber I buy with much greater detail, but I
guess I was busy looking at my lady and talking with her instead.

BUT when the plywood becomes delaminated or pieces start falling out I
Take It Back. Sure it is cut but the piece is defective, how would
you know if you had not cut it?

Good point, but it's all hindsight now. Assuming I don't destroy the
project when I start sanding, it will all work out in the end.

Anthony

I had a similar experience, but the real problem was in finishing it.
The oak veneer I got was so thin that the pores opened to the adhesive
surface underneath. The stain would not take on the adhesive, so I
had a poor stain job. I ended up having to use Mohawk's Blendal
sticks to correct it.

On May 25, 12:10 pm, Lew Hodgett wrote:


Two (2) mistakes:

1) Walking thru the doors of Home Depot.
2) Thinking they even know what Birch cabinet plywood is, much less
sell it.

Plywood distributors exist for a reason.

Lew

You know, as a sidebar to this, Home Depot sold quality plywood a few
years ago. (5?- 7?) It was the same stuff I got at my hardwoods guy,
even the same stamps sometimes. It was just a about 20% less.

Then they sold a hardwood faced ply that was called something like
"cabply" or "cabinet ply" with no claims as to what wood it was. It
was clear, had the appearance of first veneer cut ash, not anything at
all resemblign birch, but was very close grained. Not porous at all.
It came from Chile, so of course we called it Chiliply. I used a lot
of it for all kinds of things stained and painted.

Now they sell that junk. When I built the aforementioned tables, I
was really surprised as some of that stuff was a full 3/16" out of
square! OK, we are all past thinking that a sheet of anything is
square. But 3/16"?

My point is that when they sold the better stuff, there was a thriving
market for it. A lot of the cabinet guys and smaller contractors ate
that stuff up. Many times I would go to HD to get some, and they
would be out. At the price, it made wonderful small cabinets, paint
grade vanities, uitlity room cabinets, etc. I know it is a function
of money/time on the rack/bottom line, etc., but I can't figure out
why they QUIT carrying a better grade since it was selling. The sold
the daylights out of that stuff.

Now they have the Chinaply whenever I would want it. Problem is, I
don't. There is so much in the racks, apparently a lot of others
don't either.

Robert

All the more reason to use solid wood instead of plywood.

It's hard to beat the cost and stability of plywood, and solid wood has
it's own share of issues. Warping, cupping, splitting, etc. I did buy a lot
of solid wood for trim, drawer fronts, etc. and it's not picture perfect
either.

Of course, then there's the issue of gluing up panels and the labor (and
goofs) involved with that.

Anthony

I have never seen face veneer that thin.
I don't think you could spray it on any thinner.

Yep, sounds like the same stuff!

You really need to be extra careful when sanding.
I sanded right through that stuff

That's the part I'm worried about. It shouldn't take much sanding on the
large flat areas, it's near the edges where the trim meets the plywood that
I'm most concerned. That and anywhere I need to fill a nail hole or
something.

Luckily, the face of the pieces weren't all that interesting,
so with some finish on the top it didn't matter.

The majority of my entertainment center will usually have "stuff" on it,
the top is higher than most people will see, and most of the front is solid
wood. So, maybe there's hope...

I used to buy the "China ply" at HD and it was a decent product.

I've purchased birch ply at HD and Lowes for years and never had a problem.
I guess that's why I didn't give it much thought when I bought it. Now I
know better.

the pink glue they used to press the plies
together stunk like something was burning.

Interesting, I noticed that smell when I was making some cuts, but didn't
see any signs of burning on the wood.

Anthony

wrote in message

You know, as a sidebar to this, Home Depot sold quality plywood a few
years ago. (5?- 7?) It was the same stuff I got at my hardwoods guy,
even the same stamps sometimes. It was just a about 20% less.

You're right ... last time I got good Oak 3/4" ply from HD was around 2002.
IIRC, it was around $42/sheet, which was a pretty good price at the time,
void free, relatively thick veneer compared to the higher wood boutique
prices, and much heavier than what they sell as plywood at any BORG today.

I just got a quote from my hardwood dealer yesterday for 3/4"x4x8 A1 rift
sawn red oak - $115.95/sheet; up $11/sheet since I bought the last load just
about one year ago.

Inflation? ... what inflation?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Now I don't feel so bad over $75 a sheet for the 3/4" stuff I got from my hardwood dealer last winter. Might have gotten a cut rate due to the rest of the almost $2,000 order.


P D Q
"Swingman" wrote in message ...

wrote in message

You know, as a sidebar to this, Home Depot sold quality plywood a few
years ago. (5?- 7?) It was the same stuff I got at my hardwoods guy,
even the same stamps sometimes. It was just a about 20% less.

You're right ... last time I got good Oak 3/4" ply from HD was around 2002.
IIRC, it was around $42/sheet, which was a pretty good price at the time,
void free, relatively thick veneer compared to the higher wood boutique
prices, and much heavier than what they sell as plywood at any BORG today.

I just got a quote from my hardwood dealer yesterday for 3/4"x4x8 A1 rift
sawn red oak - $115.95/sheet; up $11/sheet since I bought the last load just
about one year ago.

Inflation? ... what inflation?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On May 25, 1:56 pm, HerHusband wrote:


the pink glue they used to press the plies
together stunk like something was burning.

Interesting, I noticed that smell when I was making some cuts, but didn't
see any signs of burning on the wood.

Anthony

Nothing burned, it just smelled like it. That was the confusing
part. I am sure the Chinaply is bound by something made from boiled
animals and food remnants.

Just as a tip, if you are going to edge this stuff, put your edging up
a little where you can, covering the edge plus a little and then sand
by hand to get down to the whisper of veneer.

Robert

wrote:

I know it is a function
of money/time on the rack/bottom line, etc., but I can't figure out
why they QUIT carrying a better grade since it was selling. The sold
the daylights out of that stuff.

It's known as "bean counter mentality".


If you want to quickly destroy a business, put a bean counter in charge.

The examples are numerous.

1) L Townsend at Chrysler
2) R Smith at GM

They are the first to come to mind, but there are others.

Lew

Swingman wrote:

Inflation? ... what inflation?

Try energy costs.

Lew

wrote in message
ups.com...
On May 25, 12:10 pm, Lew Hodgett wrote:


big snip

Does anyone with knowledge know the current status of the China plywood
flap? The last I heard was that the US was going to file a complaint
against China for selling the plywood that is marked as meeting standards
that it obviously doesn't meet.

What most Americans don't know is that the US currency is in the toilet. I
run a Canadian company which has 99% of its income in US dollars. Our
revenue is up but when converted to Canadian dollars it becomes less than
years before. I used to get $1.60 Canadian for every one US dollar, now I
only get $1.08 per US dollar and the experts say that the two currencies
will be par by year end.

This means that whatever you bought a couple of years ago that was imported,
now it is going to cost you almost 50% more today because the other
currencies in the world have not dropped as much as the US dollar.

Home Depot, Wal-Mart and many others compensate by buying even cheaper crap
so that the price doesn't go up, that is why the plywood is now pure junk.


"Swingman" wrote in message
...

wrote in message

You know, as a sidebar to this, Home Depot sold quality plywood a few
years ago. (5?- 7?) It was the same stuff I got at my hardwoods guy,
even the same stamps sometimes. It was just a about 20% less.

You're right ... last time I got good Oak 3/4" ply from HD was around
2002.
IIRC, it was around $42/sheet, which was a pretty good price at the time,
void free, relatively thick veneer compared to the higher wood boutique
prices, and much heavier than what they sell as plywood at any BORG today.

I just got a quote from my hardwood dealer yesterday for 3/4"x4x8 A1 rift
sawn red oak - $115.95/sheet; up $11/sheet since I bought the last load
just
about one year ago.

Inflation? ... what inflation?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Just out of boredom, I went by HD at lunch today. This was in Fort
Smith, Arkansas. I noticed they had two kinds of birch ply. One was
labeled "3/4 inch birch plywood" and sold for 39.00. The other was
labeled "3/4 inch Classic birch plywood" and sold for 29.00. Both
were stamped "Made in China". I didn't ask what the difference was
because I knew no one working there would know. Anyone have a clue? I
miss Jerry's Home Center in Eugene Oregon.

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message ne
Swingman wrote:

Inflation? ... what inflation?

Try energy costs.

Tell me about it ... even the trades are putting "fuel cost" clauses in
their bids the past two months.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"EXT" writes:

This means that whatever you bought a couple of years ago that was imported,
now it is going to cost you almost 50% more today because the other
currencies in the world have not dropped as much as the US dollar.

This doesn't apply to countries that peg. China replaced the peg
with a basket, but it's heavily weighted to the dollar and really
hasn't had the same spread as other currencies.

scott

Funny - I usually have better luck with Home Depot for plywood then I do
with Lowes.
When I want decent plywood I go to my local hardwoods store and spend a lot
of time just loooking before picking.
Lowes and Home Depot are not the places to buy your quality plywood -- good
sources for shop stuff but not what I would put in my family room.

Later and best of luck.
Thom

"HerHusband" wrote in message
...
There's no point to this message, other than I need to vent somewhere...


I'm building a new entertainment center and just bought three sheets of
3/4" birch plywood and one sheet of 1/2" birch plywood from my local Home
Depot. This has to be some of the worst plywood I have ever purchased!

I didn't notice it till I got home and unloaded, but the faces of the
sheet had numerous blemishes and patches (both sides). I should have
looked it over better at the store, BEFORE I started cutting.
Thankfully, I managed to cut around the major blemishes, or hide them in
places where they can't be seen. Unfortunately, this left me a little
short, so now I need to pick up a quarter sheet to build the last two
shelves.

The plywood is also riddled with numerous voids. I don't think I have
made a cut yet that hasn't had pieces of the core falling out.

Even the grain pattern of the sheets is less than attractive. I'm not
sure what kind of birch trees they got the wood from, but this stuff is
ugly!

Perhaps worst of all, the surface veneers are extremely thin and fragile.
It appears to be thinner than a sheet of paper. I bought brand new saw
blades for making this project, and the chipout is absolutely horrible. I
also sanded a couple of pieces yesterday, and can sand through the veneer
in less than 20 seconds with 100 grit paper. Now my project is almost
finished, and I'm almost scared to sand it for fear of sanding through
the veneer and exposing the core.

Worst of all, I paid $40 a sheet for this stuff at Home Depot, and then
saw MUCH better quality lumber at Lowes (where I normally get my plywood)
for only $30 a sheet.

The plywood sucks, but a lot of the fault obviously lies with me. I made
the mistake of shopping on a weekend, when the rest of the DIY crowd was
crowding into the store. I thought the convenience of having my wife and
daughter there to help load the cart would be nice. But, in my attempt to
get in and out of the store, I didn't inspect the sheets closely enough.

Anyway, I'm almost finished with my entertainment center and am happy
with the way it is turning out. Despite the poor quality lumber, I have
managed to hide the worst blemishes. If I can pull off sanding the
project next week without destroying it, there's still a chance it might
turn out OK.

Live and learn...

Anthony

Swingman wrote:


Tell me about it ... even the trades are putting "fuel cost" clauses in
their bids the past two months.

"SurCharge" riders are nothing new.

Here in SoCal, been getting fuel surcharges on resin and glass
deliveries the last 3-4 years. Usually $10/delivery.

Still remember when the Hunt brothers tried to corner the silver market.

Almost everything I sold that had silver contacts, carried a silver
surcharge until things settled out.

Of course, back in the days of rampant inflation, "Price in effect at
time of shipment" was popular.

There was no such thing as a quote good for 30 days.

Lew

EXT wrote:
What most Americans don't know is that the US currency is in the
toilet. I
run a Canadian company which has 99% of its income in US dollars.
snip

Didn't realize the Canadian situation; however, I can tell you that
the USD is also in the tank vs the Euro.

Spending money you don't have, to finance a war, will do that.

Lew

wrote:

I fear that if I go to my hardwood supplier though, his $60 a sheet
birch won't be that much better.


That rather depends upon the grade he is selling. Each face of
plywood is graded just as are other wood materials and you get what
you pay for. All plywood face veneers are skimpy now, have been for a
long time. The days of 1/24 are long gone, welcome 1/42 and skinnier.

Another consideration is how the face veneer has been cut...most
economical method and therefore the most common (nearly universay at
DIY stores) is rotary. Generally unatractive. There are also flat
cut and quartered, book or slip matched in either.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On Fri, 25 May 2007 17:04:37 -0600, "Thom"
wrote:

Funny - I usually have better luck with Home Depot for plywood then I do
with Lowes.

Be aware that some of the plywood in BORG stores (blue and orange)
actually comes from local distributors.

I can call a local wholesale plywood distributor, bring the info to my
local HD Pro Desk, and have the material the next day. I _have_ to
know exactly what I want when I deal with HD, but I can get slatwall,
phenolic board, bending plywood, or just about any hardwood veneer.

If I need a decent amount, I'll still haul my cargo trailer to my
favorite hardwood dealer, a 35 mile round trip, but HD is less than 2
miles away. The same wholesaler will ship non-stock product to the
hardwood dealer or my buddy's bicycle shop, if I order enough.

On Fri, 25 May 2007 23:15:23 GMT, Lew Hodgett
wrote:

Didn't realize the Canadian situation; however, I can tell you that
the USD is also in the tank vs the Euro.

Spending money you don't have, to finance a war, will do that.


Congress has for decades been spending money it doesn't have. It
really doesn't matter whether it's to finance wars or welfare.


--
Chuck Taylor
http://home.hiwaay.net/~taylorc/contact/

Robert,

Nothing burned, it just smelled like it. That was the confusing
part. I am sure the Chinaply is bound by something made from boiled
animals and food remnants.

Because of the blemishes in my full sheets, I had to run down and pick up
another 1/4 sheet of 3/4" plywood today. I didn't want to spring for a
full sheet, and Lowes was out of the precut panels, so it was back to Home
Depot.

I was a lot more careful this time, making sure there were no blemishes on
either surface, and confidently carried my panel up and paid for it.

Unfortunately, when I got home I realized the grain didn't quite look
right. Now granted, I'm not all that familiar with wood species, but this
looks more like oak than birch. I double-checked the label, it says birch,
but it sure doesn't look like the usual stuff.

Of course, once again, I didn't catch on until I had cut the panel down to
the size of my shelves. Geez, I can't win... I got so busy looking at the
"quality" of the wood, I completely forgot to even check if it was the
right "type" of wood. Maybe I should just go sit down for a while.

Anyway, when I was cutting this panel, it smelled like... Well.... Urine.
Kind of disgusting actually.

Anthony

Lew Hodgett wrote in news:f6K5i.13582$Ut6.11928
@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:

EXT wrote:
What most Americans don't know is that the US currency is in the
toilet. I
run a Canadian company which has 99% of its income in US dollars.
snip

Didn't realize the Canadian situation; however, I can tell you that
the USD is also in the tank vs the Euro.

Spending money you don't have, to finance a war, will do that.

Lew

Euro used to cost approximately $0.85 (at its low point). Now it costs
$1.35 or so. That means that with respect to the euro, the dollar has lost
close to 70% of its value. Of course, gasoline here in the US is still
very cheap compared to Europe - about Euro 1.42 per liter in Wageningen,
Netherlands. If I calculate correctly, that comes to ~US$7.30 per gallon,
or more than twice the price in North Jersey.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Sat, 26 May 2007 00:09:47 GMT, Han wrote:

Of course, gasoline here in the US is still
very cheap compared to Europe - about Euro 1.42 per liter in Wageningen,
Netherlands. If I calculate correctly, that comes to ~US$7.30 per gallon,
or more than twice the price in North Jersey.

Don't most european countries subsidize mass transit (railroads) with
gas taxes? I remember hearing this in Switzerland, but was under
the impression many European countries do the same.

Actually, not a bad idea, at least for the northeast, southeast,
Chicagoland, and So Cal. US.

B A R R Y wrote in
:

On Sat, 26 May 2007 00:09:47 GMT, Han wrote:

Of course, gasoline here in the US is still
very cheap compared to Europe - about Euro 1.42 per liter in
Wageningen, Netherlands. If I calculate correctly, that comes to
~US$7.30 per gallon, or more than twice the price in North Jersey.

Don't most european countries subsidize mass transit (railroads) with
gas taxes? I remember hearing this in Switzerland, but was under
the impression many European countries do the same.

Actually, not a bad idea, at least for the northeast, southeast,
Chicagoland, and So Cal. US.

A simple 1 hour train ride during rush hour in the Netherlands (Ede-Wag to
Amsterdam Central) costs euro 11.80 (~US$ 15.93).

On NJTransit, during rush hour, Allendale to NY Penn (also about 1 hr)
costs $8.00.

Who is subsidizing more?

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Subject

If you want to drool, check these guys out:

www.aitwood.com

They are local for me, but they do ship.

Saw some stuff on the dock headed to Kiwi land the other day.

Lew

Welcome to the wonderful world of modern materials. I've used the birch
and oak ply from both Lowes and Home Depot. I never let 100 grit or anything
coarser than 150 get anywhere near it. As you've noticed, the face veneer
is extremely thin. I don't think there's much you can do do change this
without a time machine.


--
When the game is over, the pawn and the king are returned to the same box.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org

On Sat, 26 May 2007 01:14:14 GMT, Han wrote:

A simple 1 hour train ride during rush hour in the Netherlands (Ede-Wag to
Amsterdam Central) costs euro 11.80 (~US$ 15.93).

On NJTransit, during rush hour, Allendale to NY Penn (also about 1 hr)
costs $8.00.

Who is subsidizing more?

In that rare case, probably the Americans, but simple ticket price
dosen't provide enough information.

On the other side of NY, a one way, rush hour ride on Metro North,
from Bridgeport, CT to Grand Central Terminal, which is also about an
hour, is $15.50 US. The New York metro area has good commuter rail
service. As a whole, our longer distance rail system is a joke to
what I have experienced in Europe.

I was lead to believe that high road fuel taxes help pay for the
high-quality European railroads. Is that not the case?

B A R R Y wrote in
:

On Sat, 26 May 2007 01:14:14 GMT, Han wrote:

A simple 1 hour train ride during rush hour in the Netherlands
(Ede-Wag to Amsterdam Central) costs euro 11.80 (~US$ 15.93).

On NJTransit, during rush hour, Allendale to NY Penn (also about 1 hr)
costs $8.00.

Who is subsidizing more?

In that rare case, probably the Americans, but simple ticket price
dosen't provide enough information.

That's the easy way to compare for me at this time. I have found
similarly several or more years ago. Rail service in the Netherlands has
declined in general, first with decreasing investments and maintenance by
the state owned company, then gotten worse with privatization. Maybe
I'll have better reports after my next trip.

On the other side of NY, a one way, rush hour ride on Metro North,
from Bridgeport, CT to Grand Central Terminal, which is also about an
hour, is $15.50 US.

When I lived just outside Queens in Floral Park, LI, prices and travel
times were similar to what one now pays from Fair Lawn, NJ. Notable
differences are in the treatment of passengers by rail road staff, much
better in NJ (at least on the Bergen line).

The New York metro area has good commuter rail service.

And choices between different rail road lines, and buses.

As a whole, our longer distance rail system is a joke to
what I have experienced in Europe.

Only real long distance was NY to Seattle. What an experience! Speed
and absence of priority over freight was sort of a bummer, but the
ability to take a shower on the train was very good!

I also like the Acela (and the "regional") between NY, Boston, and DC.
It takes only a little longer than the torture via airports and the mini
seats in planes, butn then I can walk to the local train here and walk to
my son's place in Somerville, from the T.

European high speed trains are indeed comfortable and relatively fast.
Brussels - Paris is really great on the Thalys. I also traveled Florence
to Netherlands once, but that is really now better by cheap air,
especially when time becomes a factor.

I was lead to believe that high road fuel taxes help pay for the
high-quality European railroads. Is that not the case?

European fuel taxes go to the general funds, generally speaking, they
aren't dedicated AFAIK. The European experience is also if you build it,
they will come, or traffic will fill the roads no matter how much is
built and widened. Traffic jams should (IMHO) be encouraged so that more
will be spent on (subsidized) public transportation, which is also more
energy efficient.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Sat, 26 May 2007 11:35:57 GMT, Han wrote:


European fuel taxes go to the general funds, generally speaking, they
aren't dedicated AFAIK.

Thanks, it appears that I misunderstood this.

The European experience is also if you build it,
they will come, or traffic will fill the roads no matter how much is
built and widened.

The US does the same, as well as designing areas where everyone lives
at one end of the road and works at the other.

Traffic jams should (IMHO) be encouraged so that more
will be spent on (subsidized) public transportation, which is also more
energy efficient.

I agree with that, as well as letting an unimpeded market set fuel
prices.

I noticed too, that the price went up and quality went down on common
sheet goods. HD and Lowes has the 9-ply cabinet-grade ply (I think in
5x5-foot squares), no voids, no fills, no "footballs"--havn't checked
the price lately, but expect a high price.

"HerHusband" wrote in message
...


Perhaps worst of all, the surface veneers are extremely thin and fragile.
It appears to be thinner than a sheet of paper. I bought brand new saw
blades for making this project, and the chipout is absolutely horrible. I
also sanded a couple of pieces yesterday, and can sand through the veneer
in less than 20 seconds with 100 grit paper. Now my project is almost
finished, and I'm almost scared to sand it for fear of sanding through
the veneer and exposing the core.

Worst of all, I paid $40 a sheet for this stuff at Home Depot, and then
saw MUCH better quality lumber at Lowes (where I normally get my plywood)
for only $30 a sheet.


THD has a 30 day satisfaction return policy on just about everything. You'd
be surprised at what they will allow to be returned. You should have
returned the plywood when you noticed it was so substandard. They will also
price match, plus a 10% kicker on any competitor's like product.

I have a problem with all of the posts here about lumber that guys go out
and buy (... and select from the pile themselves), and then post complaints
about the inferior quality of such things as should have been obvious when
they were buying it. Plys are easy to see, right on the rack. Fills are
easy to see. Shame on you for not taking the time to look it over better,
but why post a vent about how crummy the product is when you are the one who
selected it?

--

-Mike-