It's been said before, and I would have followed up on those threads,
but google tells me I can't, so I figured I'd start another. A couple
plane blades, a full set of my best chisels and a couple of
construction chisels are now perfectly beveled and microbeveled. It's
so easy, so precise, and so quick to use. They've fixed the flaws with
the original and then some. I couldn't be happier.

JP

It's been said before, and I would have followed up on those threads,
but google tells me I can't, so I figured I'd start another. A couple
plane blades, a full set of my best chisels and a couple of
construction chisels are now perfectly beveled and microbeveled. It's
so easy, so precise, and so quick to use. They've fixed the flaws with
the original and then some. I couldn't be happier.

JP


That sounds really good. I have tardive disconesia in my forearms and hands
so anythiing that makes it easier to sharpen is a great help, I'll buy it, later though.
Thinking about an electric Makita copy too (flat wheel with water).

--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

AAvK wrote:
It's been said before, and I would have followed up on those threads,
but google tells me I can't, so I figured I'd start another. A couple
plane blades, a full set of my best chisels and a couple of
construction chisels are now perfectly beveled and microbeveled. It's
so easy, so precise, and so quick to use. They've fixed the flaws with
the original and then some. I couldn't be happier.

JP


That sounds really good. I have tardive disconesia in my forearms and hands
so anythiing that makes it easier to sharpen is a great help, I'll buy it, later though.
Thinking about an electric Makita copy too (flat wheel with water).

Once it's set up (it takes ~30 seconds the second time you do it) you
just roll it back and forth across the abrasive. And the roller unit
is big and stable. With your bad hands I'd strongly encourage you to
invest in one.

JP

Once it's set up (it takes ~30 seconds the second time you do it) you
just roll it back and forth across the abrasive. And the roller unit
is big and stable. With your bad hands I'd strongly encourage you to
invest in one.

JP


Sounds too good.

AAvK

A couple plane blades, a full set of my best chisels and a couple of construction chisels are now perfectly beveled and microbeveled.

I have an MK.II also, and I generally agree - excellent idea for a
product. I've got some very sharp chisels as a result. However, I
have a question... When I adjust the roller from regular to microbevel
position, it seems to change the side-to-side angle of the blade. As a
result, I always end up with long thin triangles for microbevels,
unless I give the chisel a little tap to compensate. I'm pretty sure
it's not that my blades are out of square (it's happened with multiple
blades, and I've measured with a square). I'm also pretty sure it's
not my stone, as it happens whether I sharpen on a water stone or
600-grit wet/dry on top of glass.
I've been meaning to contact Lee Valley about this, and I have no doubt
they'll take care of me - either giving me advice on how to correct the
problem, fixing the jig, replacing it, or refunding my money. Before I
do that, though, I was wondering if anyone else has noticed the same
thing.
Another interesting side note - last time I contacted Lee Valley with a
question on this MK.II honing guide, I was wondering whether this could
be used for skew chisels. Answer: not easily. A couple months later,
I get a catalog with a brand new product - a skew chisel registration
jig for the MK.II! That's a great company - not only does customer
service communicate with other departments, but they actually do
something in response to customer feedback!
Keep it up, Robin!
Andy

AAvK wrote:

That sounds really good. I have tardive disconesia in my forearms and
hands
so anythiing that makes it easier to sharpen is a great help, I'll buy
it, later though.
Thinking about an electric Makita copy too (flat wheel with water).

I would point out that you still have to exert downwards pressure with
this jig. If that's an issue, then one of the powered wheels is likely
a better option.

Chris

In article .com,
says...
It's been said before, and I would have followed up on those threads,
but google tells me I can't, so I figured I'd start another. A couple
plane blades, a full set of my best chisels and a couple of
construction chisels are now perfectly beveled and microbeveled. It's
so easy, so precise, and so quick to use. They've fixed the flaws with
the original and then some. I couldn't be happier.


I think Lee Valley is a great company, too, but I'm not so enthusiastic
about its riteration of the honing jig. Like the first one, narrow
chisels do not stay put. Maybe it's just me, but I doubt it, although I
would feel better if I had a chorus. Do I?

Andy wrote:

I've been meaning to contact Lee Valley about this, and I have no doubt
they'll take care of me - either giving me advice on how to correct the
problem, fixing the jig, replacing it, or refunding my money. Before I
do that, though, I was wondering if anyone else has noticed the same
thing.



Andy, my MkII doesn't have that problem. Maybe the inner shaft is bent,
so that when you change the microbevel adjustment one side is lifting
more than the other?

dave

Hi LDR,

Narrow chisels and Japanese dovetail chisels can still be problematic.
So perhaps a chorus of one.

There are a couple ways to mitigate the issue. One is to carefully
tighten both sides down evenly and squarely. Tis the last part of
that which affects narrow chisels the most. If the clamp bar sits
askew even a little, the pressure exerted on the chisel from a side
angle can/will cause the chisel to pivot if not downright move.

Aside from the above, another way to help is to glue a piece of fine
sandpaper to the lower roller assembly, across the whole length,
where the chisel back makes contact. I have used 180 grit. This works
well.

On another trial, I glued a *very* thin piece of neoprene in the same
location and I perhaps liked it better. One needs to select a very
thin piece, thinner than the former jig had, which was too thick and
squishy. That thicker piece only served to allow a certain amount of
spring/twist which allowed a narrow chisel to twist anyway.

The above methods have helped many people, but not all. I have then
suggested for narrow chisels to purchase an inexpensive side-clamp
jig. They have their own bugaboos, but do work for the narrow chisels
if they are not too short.

Take care, Mike

Another interesting side note - last time I contacted Lee Valley
with a question on this MK.II honing guide, I was wondering whether
this could be used for skew chisels. Answer: not easily. A couple
months later,
I get a catalog with a brand new product - a skew chisel
registration
jig for the MK.II! That's a great company - not only does customer
service communicate with other departments, but they actually do
something in response to customer feedback!
Keep it up, Robin!
The skew registration jig works well.

LV will also be releasing shortly a new lower assembly with a cambered
roller. Makes plane blades with a camber much easier to hone.

And I second the "Keep it up, Rob" sentiment. Like plow
planes, the high carbon replacement blades, and ...

Take care, Mike

In article ,
lid says...
Hi LDR,

Narrow chisels and Japanese dovetail chisels can still be problematic.
So perhaps a chorus of one.

There are a couple ways to mitigate the issue. One is to carefully
tighten both sides down evenly and squarely. Tis the last part of
that which affects narrow chisels the most. If the clamp bar sits
askew even a little, the pressure exerted on the chisel from a side
angle can/will cause the chisel to pivot if not downright move.

Aside from the above, another way to help is to glue a piece of fine
sandpaper to the lower roller assembly, across the whole length,
where the chisel back makes contact. I have used 180 grit. This works
well.

On another trial, I glued a *very* thin piece of neoprene in the same
location and I perhaps liked it better. One needs to select a very
thin piece, thinner than the former jig had, which was too thick and
squishy. That thicker piece only served to allow a certain amount of
spring/twist which allowed a narrow chisel to twist anyway.

The above methods have helped many people, but not all. I have then
suggested for narrow chisels to purchase an inexpensive side-clamp
jig. They have their own bugaboos, but do work for the narrow chisels
if they are not too short.

Hi Mike. I actually solved the problem by spending my way through it,
buying a Kell jig. I was practically using a micrometer to tighten the
Veritas evenly before giving up. The idea of using sandpaper did occur
to me but I never acted on it. I was told at the last woodworking show
in Portland,Or, that Lie Neilsen was developing a jig too. It will be
interesting to see what they come up with. Larry

Chris Friesen wrote:
AAvK wrote:

That sounds really good. I have tardive disconesia in my forearms and
hands
so anythiing that makes it easier to sharpen is a great help, I'll buy
it, later though.
Thinking about an electric Makita copy too (flat wheel with water).

I would point out that you still have to exert downwards pressure with
this jig. If that's an issue, then one of the powered wheels is likely
a better option.

I agree. I don't really notice that I'm using much pressure except
when putting on a new bevel or hogging out a chip, but a powered wheel
would pretty much eliminate it. AAvK - if you are looking at powered
wheels, don't overlook the Veritas offering. I believe it was recently
highest rated in Fine WWing.

JP

LDR wrote:
I was told at the last woodworking show
in Portland,Or, that Lie Neilsen was developing a jig too. It will be
interesting to see what they come up with.

I'm betting it will be outstanding. I asked Tom Lie-Nielsen what they
used to factory hone plane blades, and he said a standard (grey,
usually) side clamp jig. I wish I had asked about chisels.

JP

LDR wrote:

I think Lee Valley is a great company, too, but I'm not so enthusiastic
about its riteration of the honing jig. Like the first one, narrow
chisels do not stay put. Maybe it's just me, but I doubt it, although I
would feel better if I had a chorus. Do I?

Robin's company makes a fine honing guide. They use a toggle clamp
blade securing setup as on our "Sharpening Sled" honing guide. We also
had customers bring up the issue of small chisels moving while honing.
We added an abrasive surface to the blade contact area of our guide and
have not had one issue since.
Robin, I think the same solution for your guide would achieve the same
results?
Tim Queeno
alisam.com
"A-LEE-SAM"

On 25/04/2006 8:01 PM, MikeW wrote:

Narrow chisels and Japanese dovetail chisels can still be problematic.
So perhaps a chorus of one.

There are a couple ways to mitigate the issue. One is to carefully
tighten both sides down evenly and squarely. Tis the last part of
that which affects narrow chisels the most. If the clamp bar sits
askew even a little, the pressure exerted on the chisel from a side
angle can/will cause the chisel to pivot if not downright move.
[...]

I've been happily using the older Veritas "sharpening system" for a long
time, perhaps more than 15 years. The "new and improved" Mk.II seems way
too complicated and prone to problems like this. I guess I just like
simpler designs.

On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 00:02:00 GMT, lid (MikeW) wrote:

Another interesting side note - last time I contacted Lee Valley
with a question on this MK.II honing guide, I was wondering whether
this could be used for skew chisels. Answer: not easily. A couple
months later,
I get a catalog with a brand new product - a skew chisel
registration
jig for the MK.II! That's a great company - not only does customer
service communicate with other departments, but they actually do
something in response to customer feedback!
Keep it up, Robin!
What did LeeValley do in response to the negative feedback from the
owners of the MK.I jig when they complained about the jig? Well, they
built a better jig and if I want to invest a 2nd time in a sharpening
jig I can have the new and improved version, the version that actually
works. They left their MK.I customers in the lurch. Sorry, no MK.II
for me.

antoine

"antoine" wrote in message
...

What did LeeValley do in response to the negative feedback from the
owners of the MK.I jig when they complained about the jig? Well, they
built a better jig and if I want to invest a 2nd time in a sharpening
jig I can have the new and improved version, the version that actually
works. They left their MK.I customers in the lurch. Sorry, no MK.II
for me.


Did you contact LV to ask if they had a trade-in policy for owners of the
original guide?

Doug Paynewrote:
On 25/04/2006 8:01 PM, MikeW wrote:

Narrow chisels and Japanese dovetail chisels can still be
problematic.
So perhaps a chorus of one.

There are a couple ways to mitigate the issue. One is to carefully
tighten both sides down evenly and squarely. Tis the last part of
that which affects narrow chisels the most. If the clamp bar sits
askew even a little, the pressure exerted on the chisel from a side
angle can/will cause the chisel to pivot if not downright move.
[...]

I've been happily using the older Veritas "sharpening
system" for a long
time, perhaps more than 15 years. The "new and improved"
Mk.II seems way
too complicated and prone to problems like this. I guess I just like
simpler designs.[/quote:98ffade8e1]
Hi Doug,

Actually, more people over the history of the former honing guide had
problems with tools twisting. Add to the new one the skew
registration jig--another issue people have had setting up other jigs
altogether--and the cambered roller lower assembly--yet another
issue--and the new jig offers quickly repeatable use.

In the classes I teach regarding hand tool use--and in particular
sharpening--most of the class participants find the new guide
actually easier than the former or other guides on the market. I
often take a small collection of honing guides to these classes, most
vintage, some other currently available guides, including the former
LV honing guide and the Millers Falls on which I think it was based.

I personally only use a guide to ensure skew angled tools are honed
accurately and to correct the inevitable variance from repeated hand
honing. But when I do, it is quick and easy.

But the MK.II isn't for everyone. That's why we have variety.

Take care, Mike

On 26/04/2006 1:01 PM, MikeW wrote:

I
often take a small collection of honing guides to these classes, most
vintage, some other currently available guides, including the former
LV honing guide and the Millers Falls on which I think it was based.

The one I have is not "former", although it's old. It's the same as the
current one, with the exception that the angle jig with mine only has 4
angles (2 on one side, 2 on the other), as opposed to the 5 on the
current one. I have no problem using mine (and it has the
secondary-bevel capability, which is what I think you meant by "cambered
lower roller"). I've never experienced "twisting" while using it (well,
I twisted my ankle once, but that's another story :-)

In article ,
says...

"antoine" wrote in message
...

What did LeeValley do in response to the negative feedback from the
owners of the MK.I jig when they complained about the jig? Well, they
built a better jig and if I want to invest a 2nd time in a sharpening
jig I can have the new and improved version, the version that actually
works. They left their MK.I customers in the lurch. Sorry, no MK.II
for me.


Did you contact LV to ask if they had a trade-in policy for owners of the
original guide?


If I may butt in, I did, and the response was, "Well, you'll have an
extra one for your toolbox." This, with a smile, at the ww show when I
bought the new one.

I don't have the most gifted pair of hands, so it's hard for me to come
down with both feet on this issue. Still, I'm really puzzled why many
others don't have the problem of narrow chisels wandering.

I like the improvements made but they are trivial--imho--to making the
chisel behave while being sharpened. Why did I go for the second one?
Because of my good opinion of Lee Valley, which, in this case I'm truly
sorry to say, was misplaced.

Doug Payne wrote:
On 26/04/2006 1:01 PM, MikeW wrote:

I
often take a small collection of honing guides to these classes, most
vintage, some other currently available guides, including the former
LV honing guide and the Millers Falls on which I think it was based.


The one I have is not "former", although it's old. It's the same as the
current one, with the exception that the angle jig with mine only has 4
angles (2 on one side, 2 on the other), as opposed to the 5 on the
current one.

I think you're confusing the MKI and the MKII. The MKII guide uses a
totally different way to set the angle and ensure that the item being
sharpened is perpendicular to the guide.

Here's the MKI:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...072,43078&ap=1

While this is the MKII.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...072,43078&ap=1


I have no problem using mine (and it has the
secondary-bevel capability, which is what I think you meant by "cambered
lower roller").

No, the "cambered lower roller" is a roller that is not actually a
cylinder, but rather slightly tapered towards both ends. The idea is to
allow you to hone a slight radius to the blade.

The ability to set the microbevel is separate and distinct.

Chris

On 26/04/2006 1:48 PM, Chris Friesen wrote:

I think you're confusing the MKI and the MKII.

Could be, I'd never heard of the Mk-I; when I bought mine, it wasn't
called the Mk-anything, near as I can remember. Now it's just called the
"sharpening system".

No, the "cambered lower roller" is a roller that is not actually a
cylinder, but rather slightly tapered towards both ends. The idea is to
allow you to hone a slight radius to the blade.

Interesting. Neither the catalogue nor the Web site makes any mention of
that, that I can see. Makes me even more convinced that I should stick
with what I have; a tapered roller would probably just drive me nuts,
and I can already get a radiused edge on plane blades by applying a bit
of extra pressure on either side of the blade. Thanks for the info.

As posted, there is a new guide.

So I think there is confusion in the thread.

The ones which use the 4 or 5-sided "platform" are the
former version. The links above will show the new one as well as the
"current" version of the former model, which is still sold
as an alternative. The former guide was sold for a long time in
basically two incarnations, mainly the difference was the change with
the angle setting portion.

Honing guides are like any other tool. There are options galore out
there.

The cambered lower assembly is just like described above. The roller
itself is curved out to each end, and there is a flat portion in the
middle for the ability to still do certain straight edge tools
without changing the lower assembly.

Here's a picture of the one I cambered myself early last year:
http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/temp/roller_mod_0001.jpg

Mine I don't think is as cambered as theirs, but the principle is the
same. This allows me to hone various curvetures to planes I desire
them on, while still being able to accurately control the bevel
angle.

I can hone as tight as a LN scrub plane blade, which I believe is a
1.5" radius. Many of my planes have some amount of camber,
except thise which are for joint making or refining. Having the
cambered attachment is nice, and it does not interfer, as mentioned
above, with the microbevel adjustment.

My personal opinion is why should they have an exchange program?
DeWalt doesn't and last time I checked, none of the other power or
hand tool makers do.

Take care, Mike

Doug Payne wrote:
On 26/04/2006 1:48 PM, Chris Friesen wrote:

Could be, I'd never heard of the Mk-I; when I bought mine, it wasn't
called the Mk-anything, near as I can remember. Now it's just called the
"sharpening system".

Yep. It's the original.


No, the "cambered lower roller" is a roller that is not actually a
cylinder, but rather slightly tapered towards both ends. The idea is
to allow you to hone a slight radius to the blade.

Interesting. Neither the catalogue nor the Web site makes any mention of
that, that I can see.

It's not actually released yet. From what I've heard it's going to be
an optional accessory. The one that's on it currently is a cylinder,
but I think it's wider than the one on yours. This is good for grinding
flat, but not so good when trying to camber the blade.

Chris

Frank Drackman wrote:


Did you contact LV to ask if they had a trade-in policy for owners of the
original guide?


I asked. they said no. If they change their minds, I'll call them again.

Dave

Doug Payne wrote:

On 26/04/2006 1:01 PM, MikeW wrote:

I
often take a small collection of honing guides to these classes, most
vintage, some other currently available guides, including the former
LV honing guide and the Millers Falls on which I think it was based.


The one I have is not "former", although it's old. It's the same as the
current one, with the exception that the angle jig with mine only has 4
angles (2 on one side, 2 on the other), as opposed to the 5 on the
current one. I have no problem using mine (and it has the
secondary-bevel capability, which is what I think you meant by "cambered
lower roller"). I've never experienced "twisting" while using it (well,
I twisted my ankle once, but that's another story :-)
The shoulder plane blades twist on the MKII because the blade is wider
than the shank that is held by the guide.

Dave

Hi Doug,

The website will within a couple more weeks I believe. Lot's of
scuttlebutt around the net. As well, there are hints and confirmation
of several other planes and what not.

As to cambering, that's the one thing I really appreciated about the
one you have, as well as others with narrow rollers. Of course,
that's when some people complained about rocking edge tools and
rounding edges they wanted straight. Hence the wide flat roller on
the MK.II I believe. And it's really good at that.

Then, of course, people wanted to be able to camber with the new
jig--and it is darn hard to beceuase of the wide roller. What's a
company to do? g.

Anyway, I use a lot of them especially at classes, and I appreciate
their various strengths and weaknesses. Probably my favorite is that
Millers Falls from the 1930s or so. It is very similar as the former
LV guide you have.

Still easier to hone by hand...until I mess up an edge.

Take care, Mike

On 25 Apr 2006 12:21:08 -0700, "Jay Pique"
wrote:

It's been said before, and I would have followed up on those threads,
but google tells me I can't, so I figured I'd start another. A couple
plane blades, a full set of my best chisels and a couple of
construction chisels are now perfectly beveled and microbeveled. It's
so easy, so precise, and so quick to use. They've fixed the flaws with
the original and then some. I couldn't be happier.

JP

Kind of interesting that I ordered this just the other day. Happy to
see the post!

On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 09:24:44 -0700, "Frank Drackman"
wrote:


"antoine" wrote in message
.. .

What did LeeValley do in response to the negative feedback from the
owners of the MK.I jig when they complained about the jig? Well, they
built a better jig and if I want to invest a 2nd time in a sharpening
jig I can have the new and improved version, the version that actually
works. They left their MK.I customers in the lurch. Sorry, no MK.II
for me.


Did you contact LV to ask if they had a trade-in policy for owners of the
original guide?

Robin Lee glibly put the kabosh on relief for MK.I owners.
See below.
Watch out for wrap:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.woodworking/msg/d7f3f25c20868632?as_umsgid=LZmge.30835$B82.782670@ news20.bellglobal.com

antoinewrote:
....Robin Lee glibly put the kabosh on relief for MK.I owners. See
below.
Watch out for wrap:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.woodworking/msg/d7f3f25c20868632?as_umsgid=LZmge.30835$B82.782670@ news20.bellglobal.com
Well, we can all interpret the point of Rob's humor as we see fit.

I personally don't see why any company would--or could--offer a
discount or a trade-in for a product that had been made for so long.
Especially for a product that sells for so relatively little.

But, we each have different expectations for businesses I suspect. By
purchasing from Lee Valley or Lie-Nielsen, I know the product I am
getting is backed by good people. Even if they don't give trade-ins.

Take care, Mike

Jay Pique wrote:
It's been said before, and I would have followed up on those threads,
but google tells me I can't, so I figured I'd start another. A couple
plane blades, a full set of my best chisels and a couple of
construction chisels are now perfectly beveled and microbeveled. It's
so easy, so precise, and so quick to use. They've fixed the flaws with
the original and then some. I couldn't be happier.

I agree, the MKII is foolproof and painless, with fantastic
repeatability. I like it better than the Keil (sp?) jigs that I started
to prefer over the first generation Veritas.

The new skew attachment looks interesting!

Andy wrote:

I have an MK.II also, and I generally agree - excellent idea for a
product. I've got some very sharp chisels as a result. However, I
have a question... When I adjust the roller from regular to microbevel
position, it seems to change the side-to-side angle of the blade. As a
result, I always end up with long thin triangles for microbevels,


I don't have that problem. Maybe you should contact LV for a possible
replacement?

I am glad that I purchased the MK 2 even though holding 1/8" chisel was
hard. As far as trading in old model am I missing something. Are other
companies doing that. I hope so. I want HP to take back my computer
when Microsoft comes out with there new improved operating system
Vista.I will be now adding the skew attachment the next time I order.

"Doug Payne" wrote in message
...
On 26/04/2006 1:48 PM, Chris Friesen wrote:

I think you're confusing the MKI and the MKII.

Could be, I'd never heard of the Mk-I; when I bought mine, it wasn't
called the Mk-anything, near as I can remember. Now it's just called the
"sharpening system".

No, the "cambered lower roller" is a roller that is not actually a
cylinder, but rather slightly tapered towards both ends. The idea is to
allow you to hone a slight radius to the blade.

Interesting. Neither the catalogue nor the Web site makes any mention of
that, that I can see. Makes me even more convinced that I should stick
with what I have; a tapered roller would probably just drive me nuts,
and I can already get a radiused edge on plane blades by applying a bit
of extra pressure on either side of the blade. Thanks for the info.

Doug (et al) -

I have and use the first version - and will continue to do so. All a guide
is - is training wheels for muscle memory. If your techique is reasonable -
just about any guide will work. If you rely on guide to set and ensure
geometry despite technique - that's asking a lot. The MKII version is closer
to a fixture, than a guide.

A few more random comments:

1) squareness has never been an issue for me withthe old guide... in fact, I
found it an advantage that chisels and blades could move slightly...that way
differential pressure could be applied to crown blades, or keep edges
straight - all under user control (with good technique). Basically - it
probably works well for you if you hold and move the chisel, while the guide
works to keep the angle. It didn't work well for you, if you pushed the jig
back and forth, relying on it to control geometry.

2) the new guide squares and clamps better - an improvement for most, but a
bit restrictive now for those that have good technique. For example - it's
more difficult to crown a blade - hence the upcoming additional roller.
And - at more cost. The "old" guide isn't obsolete... we just have a second
version now, with different attributes.

3) narrow chisels - yup - the clamping method just isn't appropriate for
narrow chisels (under 1/4"). The appropriate guide for those has always been
a side clamping guide. They're about $10. To add side clamping ability to
our guide would add far more than $10 to the price - and it's just not good
value. We won't do it.

Have to run - meeting in two minutes.. but will check back later....

Cheers -

Rob

On 28/04/2006 10:00 AM, Robin Lee wrote:

Doug (et al) -

I have and use the first version - and will continue to do so. All a guide
is - is training wheels for muscle memory. If your techique is reasonable -
just about any guide will work. If you rely on guide to set and ensure
geometry despite technique - that's asking a lot. The MKII version is closer
to a fixture, than a guide.

A few more random comments:
[...]

Thanks Robin, useful as usual.
.../doug