"Charlie Self" wrote in message
ups.com...

There are a lot of heart and lung and other ailments that don't make
flexibility difficult but that do make walking too far dangerous. Loss
of flexibility, loss of limbs, loss of use of limbs and painful legs
and knees aren't the only problems covered by disability tags.


The breathing difficulties disappear as they browse, however.

"Leon" wrote in message

Umm I think the point is that if you are able to crawl in and out of a
Corvette you are probably just as capable as the rest of us of walking
from
a regular parking spot. ;~)

That's as about a short-sighted statement I've seen in a long while. I could
climb into a corvette and get out, but I'm not capable of walking 5 feet
without grab bars to help me keep my balance. They're called "Arms and
Hands" Leon and if you had any idea what you were talking about you'd
realize that they're used for holding onto things when moving around.

You might believe your smiley tempers your statement, but it doesn't.

"Leon" wrote in message

LOL. Which bets the question, what is a mobility impaired person doing
shopping in a huge Borg building. Perhaps they should be allowed to drive
through. I never could understand handicap parking in front of Large
stores. The walk from the parking lot to the store is no where near the
walk ahead of them once they get inside.

Leon, I hope you never have the problems some do. My wife (most days) can
walk the inside of the larger stores, but she has to do it pushing a cart.
The walk from a parking spot to the door is often a problem if there are no
carts available or she does not have my arm to hold on to. In nice weather,
I'll park at some distance so we can get the exercise, but when it is 13
degrees or 95 degrees, the placard comes out.

I know abuses occur. I know a fellow that uses his grandmother's car for
Christmas shopping. I'm sure some people don't need to use those spots all
the time. I'm sure some doctors are too quick to sign off. I doubt than
any of us here (even if you are a doctor) can make an honest evaluation just
watching a person walk to the store.

Oh, did I mention that some stores have electric scooters for the
handicapped?

I hate to admit it, but I have Hepatitis C and cirrhosis. Unable to work due
to so many symptoms. Anyone looking at me might think I am a healthy,
able-bodied semen (as a friend was once listed in a employment line). Truth
is, I can hardly walk 200 feet without being out of breath, dizzy, and
fatigued. Yep, I use my Michigan diploma (an Ohio State joke) when I need
to. Days I feel OK, I park and walk.
"George" wrote in message
...
SWMBO and I go up to the "big city" to Menards today - plumbing, don't
ask -
and since she's still in a chair from a broken tib/fib, we can use the
blue
spots.

Though they're always empty when I don't have the mirror hanger, today
they're full. Goes without saying. Most even have a sticker, including a
Corvette in front of the exit door.


A CORVETTE??????

"Leon" wrote in message
...
[snip]

Which bets the question, what is a mobility impaired person doing shopping
in a huge Borg building. Perhaps they should be allowed to drive through.
I never could understand handicap parking in front of Large stores. The
walk from the parking lot to the store is no where near the walk ahead of
them once they get inside.
Think about the issue a little more. Suppose my mobility impaired spouse
needed a plumbing repair item or I wanted her opinion on a lighting fixture
or paint color. Are you suggesting HD shouldn't let her in the store?!?

Hats off to our local BORG -- Our HD has electric carts for those that need
them, and at least one person on the sales staff uses a powered wheelchair.
HD is very good about providing services to handicapped customers, and also
very good at hiring staff with special needs as well. In fact, I think the
corporation has a special program and an arrangement with Goodwill to either
use or provide training and experience for persons (such as with Downs
Syndrome) who might otherwise be unemployable.

Regards --

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
ups.com...


There are a lot of heart and lung and other ailments that don't make
flexibility difficult but that do make walking too far dangerous. Loss
of flexibility, loss of limbs, loss of use of limbs and painful legs
and knees aren't the only problems covered by disability tags.



So do these type ailments suddenly get better once you are in the Borg and
end up walking a quarter mile or more?

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
.. .

"Leon" wrote in message

Leon, I hope you never have the problems some do.

And so do I, and in no way mean any disrespect to any one with a
disability.

My wife (most days) can
walk the inside of the larger stores, but she has to do it pushing a cart.
The walk from a parking spot to the door is often a problem if there are
no carts available or she does not have my arm to hold on to. In nice
weather, I'll park at some distance so we can get the exercise, but when
it is 13 degrees or 95 degrees, the placard comes out.


I know abuses occur. I know a fellow that uses his grandmother's car for
Christmas shopping.

These are the people that I think George and I am picturing.

"World Traveler" wrote in message news:7Z_xe.15717

Hats off to our local BORG -- Our HD has electric carts for those that
need
them, and at least one person on the sales staff uses a powered
wheelchair.
HD is very good about providing services to handicapped customers, and
also
very good at hiring staff with special needs as well.

Agreed. One of the HD stores I go to has at least two wheelchairs available
for those that need it and at least one person working there who uses a
wheelchair. He works in the woodworking tools section. The washrooms there
are wheelchair accessible too. This is Canada I'm talking about so there
aren't any ADA rules in effect to guarantee this stuff, at least not yet.

Only one time did I have a disability related problem at this store. Went
into the washroom to use the single accessible stall (there were 2 other
regular sized ones) and there was a HD employee already in there. Knew he
was an HD employee because I could see the edge of his orange HD smock
hanging down from the hook. Waited and waited 20 minutes for this guy to
come out. Knew he was reading he paper because I could hear him turning the
pages. I eventually asked another HD employee to find a manager for me. Just
as the manager came by, the HD employee came strolling out of the stall. I'd
have spent the time to really give him ****, but I had other priorities to
deal with. Next time, my limit is ten minutes max before I start hammering
on the door to the stall. Either that or invade the stall in the women's
washroom.

"Upscale" wrote in message
...
"Leon" wrote in message

That's as about a short-sighted statement I've seen in a long while. I
could
climb into a corvette and get out, but I'm not capable of walking 5 feet
without grab bars to help me keep my balance.

I am not trying to ruffle any fetahers here as I do indeed believe that many
situations are legit. But when the guy parks in the handicap area and walks
briskly into the store and or walks his empty cart to the cart parking spot
after emptying it I cannot see the point of him parking in the handicap
zone. I am not quite sure I could guess what the disadvantage to parking
like others would place on him. Living in Houston I see this just about
every time I go to the Borg.

"Leon" wrote in message

I am not trying to ruffle any fetahers here as I do indeed believe that
many
situations are legit. But when the guy parks in the handicap area and
walks
briskly into the store and or walks his empty cart to the cart parking
spot
after emptying it I cannot see the point of him parking in the handicap
zone. I am not quite sure I could guess what the disadvantage to parking
like others would place on him. Living in Houston I see this just about
every time I go to the Borg.

Well, I have to agree with you in one respect. There's always going to be a
number of people that will take advantage of the system. I've seen some
really ridiculous examples of that too.

Up here in Toronto, the disabled transit system is called Wheeltrans. I saw
a rider once who just missed his Wheeltrans bus and sprinted a good 20
second 100 yard dash down the street to try to catch it.

On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 19:14:28 -0400, Odinn
wrote:

I do have bad knees, and getting in and out of my Stratus is hell on
them. I didn't say there were as easy as a truck, but they are easier
to get in and out of than my Stratus. Altho, my motorcycle is even
easier to get off of than it is to get out of either the car or truck, I
just fall off.

I've done it that way - it's part of the reason I now have bad knees.
Of course I was traveling about 65 mph when I fell off.

--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

On 7/3/2005 9:34 PM Tim Douglass mumbled something about the following:
On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 19:14:28 -0400, Odinn
wrote:


I do have bad knees, and getting in and out of my Stratus is hell on
them. I didn't say there were as easy as a truck, but they are easier
to get in and out of than my Stratus. Altho, my motorcycle is even
easier to get off of than it is to get out of either the car or truck, I
just fall off.


I've done it that way - it's part of the reason I now have bad knees.
Of course I was traveling about 65 mph when I fell off.

I destroyed on knee hyperextending it playing baseball that never healed
properly, the other I busted pretty bad hitting it with a maul while
splitting firewood.

--
Odinn
RCOS #7
SENS(less)
SLUG

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton

Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org

rot13 to reply

On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 20:26:54 -0400, "Upscale" wrote:

"World Traveler" wrote in message news:7Z_xe.15717

Hats off to our local BORG -- Our HD has electric carts for those that
need
them, and at least one person on the sales staff uses a powered
wheelchair.
HD is very good about providing services to handicapped customers, and
also
very good at hiring staff with special needs as well.

Agreed. One of the HD stores I go to has at least two wheelchairs available
for those that need it and at least one person working there who uses a
wheelchair. He works in the woodworking tools section. The washrooms there
are wheelchair accessible too. This is Canada I'm talking about so there
aren't any ADA rules in effect to guarantee this stuff, at least not yet.

Upscale,

Just out of curiosity, have you had any significant issues with
places not accomodating wheelchairs, despite not having an ADA type act? I
ask because I would expect that most businesses would make reasonable
accomodations just as good business. Having been involved in a
construction project at one church where the number of required handicapped
spaces was absurd relative to our known requirements, and now being
involved in another construction project at a different congregation where,
if we follow the rules for the building capacity, we will be ridiculously
under our requirements for such accomodations, I have found that the "big
hammer solves all problems" approach of government fiat is not always the
best approach to solving problems.


+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message

Just out of curiosity, have you had any significant issues with
places not accomodating wheelchairs, despite not having an ADA type act?
I
ask because I would expect that most businesses would make reasonable
accomodations just as good business.

You're going to regret asking me this because you'll get an earful. You
might want to take this conversation offline.

The answer to your question is a categorical "YES". I live in Toronto,
Canada's largest city. I'm willing to bet that at least 75% of restaurants
and buildings in Toronto are not accessible to wheelchairs and at least 95%
of them don't have wheelchair accessible washrooms. Smaller businesses do
not see the value in spending the money for ramps or elevators for Toronto's
disabled population. For the past twenty years or so, new office buildings
are wheelchair accessible, but accessible washrooms in these buildings are
few and far between. I can give specific examples of MANY 40 story office
buildings in Toronto without accessible washroom access anywhere except
maybe one on the first floor. What about disabled clients? They don't exist
for some reason? In many cases, historical heritage has allowed government
and public offices to escape the mandate that all public buildings be made
accessible.

Our subway system is only 1/3 accessible with elevators after two five year
plans and one ten year plan to make them all accessible. While the Toronto
Transit system has been implementing low floor and accessible buses as fast
as they can afford them, there's a number of areas served solely by
streetcars that certainly are not accessible and no surface route buses
running.

Wheeltrans, the specialized transit system for the disabled is hopelessly
overbooked with wait times often approaching two hours and ride times often
running in excess of three hours. Imagine going to a job everyday where you
had to ride three hours to work and three hours to get home after waiting
several hours for pick up in both directions? I've actually had to quit a
job because the waiting and travelling time took longer than the hours I was
working.

I live 100 yards from Yonge and Bloor a location many consider the centre of
Toronto. I know this city. Bigger, upscale restaurants are starting to
change their premises to accommodate the disabled, but the fast food
restaurants are not. McDonalds, Burger King, Wendy's, Kentucky Fried
Chicken, Taco Bell, ad infinitum, I have never seen one wheelchair
accessible washroom in ANY of these chains. At best, they're located in a
shopping mall and leave that kind of thing to the mall designers. Imagine
one or two wheelchair accessible washrooms in a 100+ store shopping mall
capable of handling 1,000's of people concurrently? What percentage of
people are disabled? 10%-15%?

When I go to movie theatres, although most do have accessible washrooms on
the premises, I often get in verbal arguments with people who use them
instead of walking the extra 50' to the regular public in movie washrooms.

Need to hear more? Email me privately.

"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
under our requirements for such accomodations, I have found that the "big
hammer solves all problems" approach of government fist is not always the
best approach to solving problems.

A response to this. The lack of government fist has allowed many (most)
businesses to dismiss the idea of spending money for disabled access. It
might seem like it's good business to enable access for the disabled, but
the reality of the situation is a direct contradiction to this idea.

In Ontario, one recent former premier (Mike Harris(may he rot in Hell))
enabled an ODA (Ontarians with Disabilities Act) that had absolutely no
teeth when it came to mandating accessibility for the disabled. His belief
was that business would do the right thing if their own accord. (What a pile
of crap!) The current premier (Dalton McGuinty) is mulling over an ODA with
substantially more clout, but it's an ongoing process. That's provincially.
There is nothing on the horizon that I've ever heard for a National
disabilities act for Canada.

"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
construction project at one church where the number of required
handicapped
spaces was absurd relative to our known requirements, and now being
involved in another construction project at a different congregation
where,

I know for a fact that many churches in Toronto have made significant
changes to enable access for the disabled. I consider churches to be private
organizations, not part of the commercial apathy that pervades Toronto's
business community when it comes to disabled access. It would make sense
too. As far as I'm concerned, a church survives on the good will of it's
congregation, many of them who might be disabled or elderly. Access makes
sense, something completely lost on Toronto's business community.

George wrote:
"Charlie Self" wrote in message
ups.com...

There are a lot of heart and lung and other ailments that don't make
flexibility difficult but that do make walking too far dangerous. Loss
of flexibility, loss of limbs, loss of use of limbs and painful legs
and knees aren't the only problems covered by disability tags.


The breathing difficulties disappear as they browse, however.

You lost me there. I know too many people who have COPD, bad hearts,
and a couple with emphysema to think the difficulties disappear. In the
case of COPD, the difficulty breathing MAY come and go, but that is not
at the behest of the person suffering from the problem.

On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 15:33:17 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:


"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
.. .

"Leon" wrote in message

Umm I think the point is that if you are able to crawl in and out of a
Corvette you are probably just as capable as the rest of us of walking
from a regular parking spot. ;~)

Yes, but . . . . . That point is just plain flat WRONG. Getting in and
out of a car is far different that walking when you have a heart problem
of COPD and the humidity is 99%. My MIL was agile enough to get in and
out of any car, but her lung cancer would not allow her to walk more than
50 feet. No, the OP was just a narrow minded individual uneducated in the
problems others have in their daily lives. I hope he remains healthy.

I understand your point but some of the vehicles parked in those spots just
seem out of place.

A lot of them are out of place. I've got a sister who is really and
truly handicapped, so my parents have the plates on all their
vehicles. She can only ride in the van, but my mother still uses the
handicapped spots in her Taurus, without a handicapped person in sight
just because she has the plates.

Had a few good yelling matches with her over that one, but some people
just will never learn.

"Prometheus" wrote in message
She can only ride in the van, but my mother still uses the
handicapped spots in her Taurus, without a handicapped person in sight
just because she has the plates.

That's different from up here in Canada. Parking permits for the disabled
are assigned to the person, not the vehicle. I can use the permit when I'm
travelling around as a passenger with someone who is able bodied or when I'm
driving a vehicle with hand controls.

"Upscale" wrote in message
...
"Prometheus" wrote in message
She can only ride in the van, but my mother still uses the
handicapped spots in her Taurus, without a handicapped person in sight
just because she has the plates.

That's different from up here in Canada. Parking permits for the disabled
are assigned to the person, not the vehicle. I can use the permit when I'm
travelling around as a passenger with someone who is able bodied or when
I'm
driving a vehicle with hand controls.


Here it CT, you get the permit as an individual. Only then can you apply for
plates for the car. Both our cars are in both our names so I'm not going
to do that but I'm not going to do that even if I can. . The placard is
signed by my wife so if I was to be challenged because I used it, there
would be a hefty fine. I can walk pretty far to avoid spending $200+

There are strict rules on how to qualify, but I'm sure there are abuses if a
doctor will sign off. There are temporary tags for injuries that will heal
such as the broken leg. .
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
oups.com...


George wrote:
"Charlie Self" wrote in message
ups.com...

There are a lot of heart and lung and other ailments that don't make
flexibility difficult but that do make walking too far dangerous. Loss
of flexibility, loss of limbs, loss of use of limbs and painful legs
and knees aren't the only problems covered by disability tags.


The breathing difficulties disappear as they browse, however.

You lost me there. I know too many people who have COPD, bad hearts,
and a couple with emphysema to think the difficulties disappear. In the
case of COPD, the difficulty breathing MAY come and go, but that is not
at the behest of the person suffering from the problem.


The bottle they push/carry around and around the store seems to be less of a
burden in than outside.

Upscale wrote:

"Prometheus" wrote in message
She can only ride in the van, but my mother still uses the
handicapped spots in her Taurus, without a handicapped person in sight
just because she has the plates.

That's different from up here in Canada. Parking permits for the disabled
are assigned to the person, not the vehicle. I can use the permit when I'm
travelling around as a passenger with someone who is able bodied or when I'm
driving a vehicle with hand controls.

It's not different in concept, only (perhaps) in implementation. Every
state in the US of which I am aware does essentially the same thing--a
handicapped individual has to apply and get an affidavit signed by
licensed physician stating the handicap and whether it is permanent. If
permanent, then a permanent handicap license plate will be issued for a
vehicle of choice, but it is still only valid to be used in the handicap
zone when the individual for which it was issued is either a passenger
or the driver, even though the tag is affixed to the vehicle. Abuse by
others of the privilege is punishable by pretty hefty fines. Most, if
not all, states will also issue at the same time one or more non-fixed
permits which may be placed in the vehicle so the same individual may be
a passenger or operator of another vehicle if necessary. Again, same
rule applies--others using the permit are not legal and subject to
fine/towing. Again, most if not all states will honor other states
temporary permits on out of state vehicles and many will for in-state
(MIL is visiting from Left Coast, for example, she can bring her hanging
permit w/ her rather than go get a local temporary)...

George wrote:

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
oups.com...


George wrote:
"Charlie Self" wrote in message
ups.com...

There are a lot of heart and lung and other ailments that don't make
flexibility difficult but that do make walking too far dangerous. Loss
of flexibility, loss of limbs, loss of use of limbs and painful legs
and knees aren't the only problems covered by disability tags.


The breathing difficulties disappear as they browse, however.

You lost me there. I know too many people who have COPD, bad hearts,
and a couple with emphysema to think the difficulties disappear. In the
case of COPD, the difficulty breathing MAY come and go, but that is not
at the behest of the person suffering from the problem.


The bottle they push/carry around and around the store seems to be less of a
burden in than outside.

That may also be true...climatic conditions can have a major effect.
That said, there are degrees of handicap and some may well use a limited
amount to the fullest extent possible--

On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 03:06:30 -0400, "Upscale" wrote:

"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message

Just out of curiosity, have you had any significant issues with
places not accomodating wheelchairs, despite not having an ADA type act?
I
ask because I would expect that most businesses would make reasonable
accomodations just as good business.

You're going to regret asking me this because you'll get an earful. You
might want to take this conversation offline.

.... snip

Need to hear more? Email me privately.


Nope, thanks, you answered my question.




+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 03:28:43 -0400, "Upscale" wrote:

"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
construction project at one church where the number of required
handicapped
spaces was absurd relative to our known requirements, and now being
involved in another construction project at a different congregation
where,

I know for a fact that many churches in Toronto have made significant
changes to enable access for the disabled. I consider churches to be private
organizations,

Unfortunately, in the US, governments don't, thus they are treated as
businesses and must set things up according to the federal formula of x
spaces per y occupants of the building in question. As a church, we would
not want to have any of our members with disabilities unable to access the
church, thus regardless of the number of members or guests with mobility
difficulties, we would make provision to accomodate those people. As I
mentioned in my examples, in one case when we added on, we were required to
provide 4 spaces -- in the entire history of the congregation we had never
had more than two people at a time who needed such accomodation, and for
long periods of time, we had no one who needed them -- for a small
congregation the expense of adding parking lot and then consuming 50% of
the expansion for spaces that would not be used was a burden on the members
that didn't seem right. At our current congregation, we have a large
number of elderly people (for some reason Arizona seems to attract that
type of person :-) ). Strictly following the letter of the law would
leave us short by several spaces the number of accomodations we need to
provide to accomodate all of our members.

not part of the commercial apathy that pervades Toronto's
business community when it comes to disabled access. It would make sense
too. As far as I'm concerned, a church survives on the good will of it's
congregation, many of them who might be disabled or elderly. Access makes
sense, something completely lost on Toronto's business community.


Both good will and also simply because it's the right thing to do out of
caring for those in our midst.




+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 16:02:57 -0400, "George" wrote:

SWMBO and I go up to the "big city" to Menards today - plumbing, don't ask -
and since she's still in a chair from a broken tib/fib, we can use the blue
spots.

Though they're always empty when I don't have the mirror hanger, today
they're full. Goes without saying. Most even have a sticker, including a
Corvette in front of the exit door.


A CORVETTE??????

obviously a mental handicap..
probably a poor vertically challenged middle aged guy being treated for over
compensation..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Mark & Juanita wrote:
... As I
mentioned in my examples, in one case when we added on, we were required to
provide 4 spaces -- in the entire history of the congregation we had never
had more than two people at a time who needed such accomodation, and for
long periods of time, we had no one who needed them -- for a small
congregation the expense of adding parking lot and then consuming 50% of
the expansion for spaces that would not be used was a burden on the members
that didn't seem right.

I can top that story. It is at least conceivable that more handicapped
persons might join the congregation (at which point I'm confident the
congregation would have been happy to expand the accomodations anyhow)
but I suppose also some handicapped persons might be inspired to join
the congregation becuase of the surplus accomodation. Not nearly
as likely in the story below.

A few years back I stopped in at a local bar/package store
(carryout) I had not visited in a number of years. The local topography
was such that the parking lot rose gently up to main entrance so that
it and the whole interior floor were basicly at grade. The building
was (probably since first built) handicapped accessible without any
special consideration. I bet the guys delivering kegs and beer cases
appreciated that too.

Anyhow, the first thing I noticed was that a lot of remodeling had
been done. Then I noticed a stage with a miror behind it had been
added to the side. E.g. the owners had converted the bar to a
strip club. Then I noticed that there were two railings between
the stage and the audience, the outer railing was about 30 inches
in front of the inner railing and inclined at a slope of about
12/1. Yes, that's right. The bar was required to build-in wheelchair
access to the stage so that there would not be any architectural
barrier for wheelchair-bound strippers they might hire.

In this case "build it and they will come" didn't seem likely.




Both good will and also simply because it's the right thing to do out of
caring for those in our midst.



No kidding. I'd think so too.

But I've read that among the worse offenders prior to laws requiring
accomadations were some high class restaraunts. Not did many not
provide assistance simply out of good will, but many actually refused
service to persons in wheelchairs and even after many were notrious for
'losing' reservations, if someone in the party that made them showed
up in a wheelchair.

Maybe those stories were true, maybe not, I never checked and since
then I've learned to eb lot more skpetical of such stories.

Oh -- I have no trouble at all believing yours however.

--

FF

wrote

Anyhow, the first thing I noticed was that a lot of remodeling had
been done. Then I noticed a stage with a miror behind it had been
added to the side. E.g. the owners had converted the bar to a
strip club. Then I noticed that there were two railings between
the stage and the audience, the outer railing was about 30 inches
in front of the inner railing and inclined at a slope of about
12/1. Yes, that's right. The bar was required to build-in wheelchair
access to the stage so that there would not be any architectural
barrier for wheelchair-bound strippers they might hire.

I have heard of a number of situations where much expense was involved in
building ramps for folks who don't exist. I wonder if the government
agencies could produce even one instance of a wheel chair bound stripper.

And even if they could, would she want to work like that?

And even if she did, who would hire her?

What next? Water ramps for goldfish?

On 7/4/2005 2:18 PM mac davis mumbled something about the following:
On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 16:02:57 -0400, "George" wrote:


SWMBO and I go up to the "big city" to Menards today - plumbing, don't ask -
and since she's still in a chair from a broken tib/fib, we can use the blue
spots.

Though they're always empty when I don't have the mirror hanger, today
they're full. Goes without saying. Most even have a sticker, including a
Corvette in front of the exit door.


A CORVETTE??????


obviously a mental handicap..
probably a poor vertically challenged middle aged guy being treated for over
compensation..

You sound like a mental handicap to think that a person with a handicap
can't/shouldn't own a Corvette.

--
Odinn
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rot13 to reply

On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 11:49:51 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:


"Upscale" wrote in message
...
"Prometheus" wrote in message
She can only ride in the van, but my mother still uses the
handicapped spots in her Taurus, without a handicapped person in sight
just because she has the plates.

That's different from up here in Canada. Parking permits for the disabled
are assigned to the person, not the vehicle. I can use the permit when I'm
travelling around as a passenger with someone who is able bodied or when
I'm
driving a vehicle with hand controls.


Here it CT, you get the permit as an individual. Only then can you apply for
plates for the car. Both our cars are in both our names so I'm not going
to do that but I'm not going to do that even if I can. . The placard is
signed by my wife so if I was to be challenged because I used it, there
would be a hefty fine. I can walk pretty far to avoid spending $200+

I think the way she got it is by being the legal guardian- my sister
cannot speak or move any part of her body except her right arm, couple
that with an estimated mental capacity of a two-year old child, and
it's pretty clear that someone else needs to fill out the form and
sign it. Not sure if it's *legal* or not, I just know it isn't right.

There are strict rules on how to qualify, but I'm sure there are abuses if a
doctor will sign off. There are temporary tags for injuries that will heal
such as the broken leg. .

Prometheus wrote:

....
I think the way she got it is by being the legal guardian- my sister
cannot speak or move any part of her body except her right arm, couple
that with an estimated mental capacity of a two-year old child, and
it's pretty clear that someone else needs to fill out the form and
sign it. Not sure if it's *legal* or not, I just know it isn't right.
....

Absolutely nothing wrong to procure it in her name...only thing wrong
would be to use it for other purposes...

On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 09:34:52 -0500, Duane Bozarth
wrote:

Prometheus wrote:

...
I think the way she got it is by being the legal guardian- my sister
cannot speak or move any part of her body except her right arm, couple
that with an estimated mental capacity of a two-year old child, and
it's pretty clear that someone else needs to fill out the form and
sign it. Not sure if it's *legal* or not, I just know it isn't right.
...

Absolutely nothing wrong to procure it in her name...only thing wrong
would be to use it for other purposes...

Yep, I was referring to her using it on a car that cannot transport my
sister. No way to use it for it's intended purpose whatsoever. On
the van with the lift, it makes perfect sense!

Mark & Juanita wrote:

On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 20:26:54 -0400, "Upscale" wrote:

"World Traveler" wrote in message news:7Z_xe.15717

Hats off to our local BORG -- Our HD has electric carts for those that
need
them, and at least one person on the sales staff uses a powered
wheelchair.
HD is very good about providing services to handicapped customers, and
also
very good at hiring staff with special needs as well.

Agreed. One of the HD stores I go to has at least two wheelchairs
available for those that need it and at least one person working there who
uses a wheelchair. He works in the woodworking tools section. The
washrooms there are wheelchair accessible too. This is Canada I'm talking
about so there aren't any ADA rules in effect to guarantee this stuff, at
least not yet.

Upscale,

Just out of curiosity, have you had any significant issues with
places not accomodating wheelchairs, despite not having an ADA type act?
I ask because I would expect that most businesses would make reasonable
accomodations just as good business. Having been involved in a
construction project at one church where the number of required
handicapped spaces was absurd relative to our known requirements, and now
being involved in another construction project at a different congregation
where, if we follow the rules for the building capacity, we will be
ridiculously under our requirements for such accomodations, I have found
that the "big hammer solves all problems" approach of government fiat is
not always the best approach to solving problems.



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If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough


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First, it's not about the walk to the HD inside and out, it's about the
weather. They put handicapped people closer to the door as some handicaps
take longer to get in and out of vehicles. The same amount of time it
takes someone from the farthest spot to get to the door, the handicapped
person may just be getting to the door.
My father worked with a (Mostly) quadraplegic person at IBM (say Hyatt
accident) and they verified that the place they were having a meeting was
handicapped accessible (before A.D.A), the place said yes. When they got
there they found out you needed a room key to swipe open ALL the restrooms.
One of the managers called the hotel management and said they left a
deposit outside the door. This whole get together was supposed to be about
making computers more accessible (the Hyatt really brought to their
attention).