On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 11:50:53 +0100, Chris Green wrote:

T i m wrote:
On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 10:40:48 +0100, ss wrote:

On 09/06/2021 10:08, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
Yes not new news, just the timescale is now known, how is it then that I can
still buy tungsten bulbs in the high street?
I get the distinct impression that like lots of things, the law is just
ignored when it suits people.
Brian

Many tungsten were sold on ebay as `heaters`the wording got them around
the restrictions.

Which is probably a more accurate description of them, given most of
the energy going into them is converted into heat!

Same applies to LEDs, even the best are still only in the 30% to 40%
sort of area if you include the losses in the associated drivers etc.

Yeahbut, turn a 60W incandescent lamp on for 10 seconds and then try
and touch it. Have a 60W (light equiv) LED lamp on for 10 minutes and
it will still only feel warm?

Suggesting, that (light) like for like, LED's are generally much more
efficient as they generally run much cooler?

(I've got a 15W (equiv) desk lamp on here set up to the Home
Automation to come on when the light level drops below a certain
threshold and it's been on for a couple of hours now. Whilst it's
'warm' I can still easily unscrew it and take it out, not something
I'd try with even a 15W incandescent that had been on for a fraction
of that time). ;-(

Ulitimately of course *all* the energy ends up as heat.

What, even the stuff coming out as visible light / UV light?

Cheers, T i m

On 09/06/2021 14:25, NY wrote:
In the kitchen and in my study, we use MiniSun GU10s which are about
6000K - just slightly cooler than LED bulbs which are sold as "daylight".

I tried some 6,500K panels in the kitchen and I had to send them back.
They were soooo cold!

Bill

On Wednesday, 9 June 2021 at 17:14:45 UTC+1, Owain Lastname wrote:
On Wednesday, 9 June 2021 at 15:19:56 UTC+1, Mark Carver wrote:
There is also the theatre where halogen lamps are still in use in
significant quantities.
Operating theatres too?

And vehicle headlights :-)

Illegal for LED headlights at present, I believe.

Owain

Do you mean to claim that LED headlights are at present illegal?

Shame no-one told VAG a few years ago when they made my car.

On Wed, 09 Jun 2021 17:14:34 +0100, Scott
wrote:

On Wed, 09 Jun 2021 16:22:46 +0100, Scott
wrote:

On Wed, 09 Jun 2021 16:11:48 +0100, T i m wrote:

On Wed, 09 Jun 2021 15:57:24 +0100, Scott
wrote:

snip

Even better, you can get direct substitutes. I bought two four foot
long LED tubes for the utility room, which fitted the existing ballast
after replacing the starter with a dummy.

I've *just* picked up a high output 5' LED florry replacement for a
fitting in the study / workshop but the fitting is electronic so I'm
going to have to bypass all the 'guts'.

Did it not come with a replacement 'starter', which just shorts out
the starter unit or does this only work with non-electronic ballasts
(as mine was)?

The main reason for doing it isn't (primarily) the light but the hope
it will get rid of the mains hum ... ;-(

It achieved that.

PS Now I remember. I think it comes as two versions: one for
electronic ballasts and one for non-electronic. Mine was the latter
(which I think is easier).

Yeah, the two I did for the kitchen were 'old skool' and I removed the
ballast and cap completely on one and just wired it though the
non-starter (because mine had 250mA fuses in them) and the other still
has the ballast and cap in circuit (for now).

Remembering this particular unit was HF got me thinking that I should
have replaced the entire fitting for an LED one, however I think I'm
better off saying with the 'tube' design as then I can swap out the
tubes if they fail or if I want to change the usage (less bright,
warmer etc) without replacing the entire unit.

I'm probably also going to include that lamp into the HA with an
occupancy sensor as I'm generally only turning it on when working in
there or setting up the 3D printer. I'm getting too used to the hall,
kitchen and landing lights going on and off automatically (movement /
occupancy) it seems quite 'primitive to have to still turn some on and
off yourself. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Owain Lastname wrote:

And vehicle headlights :-)

Illegal for LED headlights at present, I believe.

Mine has (factory) LEDs, newer models have laser headlights, but I think
that's just using a blue laser diode to illuminate a phosphor to produce
the white light ... not able to blind cyclists :-P

On Wed, 09 Jun 2021 16:35:31 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jun 2021 15:57:24 +0100, Scott
wrote:

snip

Even better, you can get direct substitutes. I bought two four foot
long LED tubes for the utility room, which fitted the existing ballast
after replacing the starter with a dummy.

I've *just* picked up a high output 5' LED florry replacement for a
fitting in the study / workshop but the fitting is electronic so I'm
going to have to bypass all the 'guts'.

The main reason for doing it isn't (primarily) the light but the hope
it will get rid of the mains hum ... ;-(

Mains hum from an electronic ballast? Something not right there as they
(should) run at a higher frequency to get rid of flicker.

Agreed, however, the 'hum' clearly goes on and off with the light so
if it's not from the fitting it's from the tube itself? Unfortunately
I can't easily test the LED tube in there because it's an HF fitting.
;-(

But then I did have similar with one of the 6' fittings in the kitchen
that was the LED tube (I just thought I hadn't noticed it with the
florry). Took all the guts out completely, that fitting with the
second hand LED tube in it still hummed like a goodun? ;-(

Two new LED tubes from TLC seemed to cure it. ;-)

(I may be hypersensitive to 50hz because of my tinnitus).

Cheers, T i m

On 09/06/2021 12:20, nightjar wrote:
On 09/06/2021 09:39, ss wrote:
..."Sales of halogen lightbulbs are to be banned in the UK from
September, with fluorescent lights to follow, under government climate
change plans"....

Apart from a few, rarely used, lamps that have yet to be changed, I have
long converted everything to LED.

+1, although I have several of the little desk lamps with "radio aeriel"
power feeds that use G4s. However I can report that I've just put a LED
replacement in one that has just failed and although it is perhaps not
quite so bright, the output is acceptable.

On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 09:33:49 -0700 (PDT), polygonum_on_google
wrote:

On Wednesday, 9 June 2021 at 17:14:45 UTC+1, Owain Lastname wrote:
On Wednesday, 9 June 2021 at 15:19:56 UTC+1, Mark Carver wrote:
There is also the theatre where halogen lamps are still in use in
significant quantities.
Operating theatres too?

And vehicle headlights :-)

Illegal for LED headlights at present, I believe.

Owain

Do you mean to claim that LED headlights are at present illegal?

Shame no-one told VAG a few years ago when they made my car.

Volkswagen is a criminal company :-)

On Wed, 09 Jun 2021 16:36:34 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
So Bill was 'wright' again. ;-) Perfectly possible to get some of the
Astra 28 group but not all, if the dish is off alignment.

I think *all* bets would be off if the dish was out of alignment. ;-)

It's also not knowing what you can get away with.

Quite, something I learned very quickly whilst installing 10 satellite
systems. The first one took 'some time' to understand / get right then
after that I couldn't see why it took so long the first time. ;-)

On the dish bracket,
each degree marking is about 1mm apart. And the setting I got was 22.7.
With the pointer being about 2mm wide.

Yeah, great. ;-(

I sort of assumed with a 1 metre dish it would be pretty tolerant. Find
any one of the Astra group and the others would be OK. But not so -
obviously.

With a single LNB you only get a few degrees of latitude and I think
they are ~6 degrees apart ... so you could easily be 'off tune' for
some of the group if you were focused on one of the outliers (and
worse if you were on the edge of the window in the wrong direction on
one of the outliers).

Like using a torch with a very tight beam to try to light up your
whole back garden from the back door.

Multi Satellite is a fun step up from single Sat and both over
terrestrial DTV and that is the same from ATV. ;-)

The shame is (often old) people paying to have their new DTV 'set up'
when in many cases you just plug it in and follow the onscreen prompts
and it does it all for you (unlike the old ATV where you had to
manually tune each button and the video etc). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 09/06/2021 17:33, polygonum_on_google wrote:
On Wednesday, 9 June 2021 at 17:14:45 UTC+1, Owain Lastname wrote:
On Wednesday, 9 June 2021 at 15:19:56 UTC+1, Mark Carver wrote:
There is also the theatre where halogen lamps are still in use in
significant quantities.
Operating theatres too?

And vehicle headlights :-)

Illegal for LED headlights at present, I believe.

Owain

Do you mean to claim that LED headlights are at present illegal?

Shame no-one told VAG a few years ago when they made my car.

Effectively, they are. However, supplied as part of a homologated car,
they have to be accepted under EU rules (and we are still sticking with
those) and the DOT has gone so far as to say that it would be
unreasonable to not permit retrofitting to cars that came without them -
however, there are requirements that make retrofitting possibly
expensive and difficult (wash/wipe and self-levelling).

In article ,
polygonum_on_google wrote:
On Wednesday, 9 June 2021 at 17:14:45 UTC+1, Owain Lastname wrote:
On Wednesday, 9 June 2021 at 15:19:56 UTC+1, Mark Carver wrote:
There is also the theatre where halogen lamps are still in use in
significant quantities.
Operating theatres too?

And vehicle headlights :-)

Illegal for LED headlights at present, I believe.

Owain

Do you mean to claim that LED headlights are at present illegal?

Shame no-one told VAG a few years ago when they made my car.

Just another reg thought up by either civil servants with zero technical
knowledge or pressure groups with self interests.

In theory fitting replacement headlamp bulbs is now an MOT fail. Although
not sure how the tester is going to know they are fitted, since he's not
allowed to dismantle anything. Poor beam control causing dazzle is already
covered in an MOT - although I often wonder how some factory fits pass
this.

--
*If at first you do succeed, try not to look too astonished.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 09/06/2021 12:55, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 12:20:16 +0100, nightjar wrote:

On 09/06/2021 09:39, ss wrote:
..."Sales of halogen lightbulbs are to be banned in the UK from
September, with fluorescent lights to follow, under government climate
change plans"....

Apart from a few, rarely used, lamps that have yet to be changed, I have
long converted everything to LED.

Me too, except for my bedside lamp which is halogen for colour
rendition. Any comments on reading under a 230V LED spotlight? Would
you go for cool, daylight or warm?

This may or may not help.
https://www.lamps-on-line.com/colour-temperature

Halogen is regarded as 3000k, or warm white.

If you want to stay awake, the the cooler temperatures, to go to sleep
then perhaps aim for the warmer temps.

On 09/06/2021 17:45, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jun 2021 16:35:31 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jun 2021 15:57:24 +0100, Scott
wrote:

snip

Even better, you can get direct substitutes. I bought two four foot
long LED tubes for the utility room, which fitted the existing ballast
after replacing the starter with a dummy.

I've *just* picked up a high output 5' LED florry replacement for a
fitting in the study / workshop but the fitting is electronic so I'm
going to have to bypass all the 'guts'.

The main reason for doing it isn't (primarily) the light but the hope
it will get rid of the mains hum ... ;-(

Mains hum from an electronic ballast? Something not right there as they
(should) run at a higher frequency to get rid of flicker.

Agreed, however, the 'hum' clearly goes on and off with the light so
if it's not from the fitting it's from the tube itself? Unfortunately
I can't easily test the LED tube in there because it's an HF fitting.
;-(

But then I did have similar with one of the 6' fittings in the kitchen
that was the LED tube (I just thought I hadn't noticed it with the
florry). Took all the guts out completely, that fitting with the
second hand LED tube in it still hummed like a goodun? ;-(

Two new LED tubes from TLC seemed to cure it. ;-)

(I may be hypersensitive to 50hz because of my tinnitus).

Most LED tube replacements specifically say they should not be fitted
without the HF ballast first being removed.

On 09/06/2021 17:23, williamwright wrote:
On 09/06/2021 13:15, Andrew wrote:
And fluorescent tubes are reasonably efficient in terms of
light output vs power in.

They are the same as LEDS

Generally they're twice as efficient as fluorescent tubes. As this link
demonstrates:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous_efficacy

The ballast also generally consumes a few watts.

In message , Robin
writes
On 09/06/2021 14:06, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , nightjar
writes
On 09/06/2021 09:39, ss wrote:
..."Sales of halogen lightbulbs are to be banned in the UK from
September, with fluorescent lights to follow, under government
climate change plans"....

Apart from a few, rarely used, lamps that have yet to be changed, I
have long converted everything to LED.
Hmm.. I have about 25 twin 5' florries in my workshop in 4 switched
banks. This may be the moment to do the LED conversion.



You have plenty of time to find 50 round tuits given they'll be phased
out "from Sept 2023 onwards"

Huh! Put up with an access tower on bare floor. Place is half full of
fixed machinery now.

Might be doable with an agile bloke from Doncaster:-)


--
Tim Lamb

The Other John wrote:

In our bathroom we have 2 halogen wall lights with G9 40W mains capsules
rated at 460L each. Looking at LED replacements I can only see 200L
capsules, so we would get less than half the illumination. Fortunately I
have 5 spares so they should out last me!

I have 6 x 12 V MR16 bulbs in my bathroom, fed via a Dimpull. So
far they haven't made a version of the Dimpull that can handle
LEDs.

In the 16 years since they were installed (tempting providence) I
don't think I have changed any bulbs, of which I have a stock,
but I am on my 3rd Dimpull. Its soft start is obviously good for
bulb life, just a shame its own design isn't better.

Extrapolating, I don't think I need to worry.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
@ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

In message
polygonum_on_google wrote:

On Wednesday, 9 June 2021 at 17:14:45 UTC+1, Owain Lastname wrote:
On Wednesday, 9 June 2021 at 15:19:56 UTC+1, Mark Carver wrote:
There is also the theatre where halogen lamps are still in use in
significant quantities.
Operating theatres too?

And vehicle headlights :-)

Illegal for LED headlights at present, I believe.

Owain

Do you mean to claim that LED headlights are at present illegal?

Shame no-one told VAG a few years ago when they made my car.

No it is illegal to convert the factory fitted halogen headlights to LED
--
John Bryan

On 09/06/2021 18:34, Fredxx wrote:
On 09/06/2021 12:55, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 12:20:16 +0100, nightjar wrote:

On 09/06/2021 09:39, ss wrote:
..."Sales of halogen lightbulbs are to be banned in the UK from
September, with fluorescent lights to follow, under government climate
change plans"....

Apart from a few, rarely used, lamps that have yet to be changed, I have
long converted everything to LED.

Me too, except for my bedside lamp which is halogen for colour
rendition.Â* Any comments on reading under a 230V LED spotlight?Â* Would
you go for cool, daylight or warm?

This may or may not help.
Â* https://www.lamps-on-line.com/colour-temperature

Halogen is regarded as 3000k, or warm white.

If you want to stay awake, the the cooler temperatures, to go to sleep
then perhaps aim for the warmer temps.



Yes. But 2700K is the old incandescent colour.

--
Adam

T i m wrote:

Ulitimately of course *all* the energy ends up as heat.

What, even the stuff coming out as visible light / UV light?

Yes, of course, what else do you think happens to the energy?

Some of the light may go out of your windows and the resultant heat is
lost from your house but the light will be absorbed by the atmosphere
and disappated as heat there.

Ultimately a few photons worth of energy possibly escape into outer
space I suppose.

--
Chris Green
·

Owain Lastname wrote:
On Wednesday, 9 June 2021 at 15:19:56 UTC+1, Mark Carver wrote:
There is also the theatre where halogen lamps are still in use in
significant quantities.

Operating theatres too?

And vehicle headlights :-)

Illegal for LED headlights at present, I believe.

My motorbike has an LED headlight. I think it's *converting* to LED
that's not allowed.

--
Chris Green
·

On 09/06/2021 17:28, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 11:50:53 +0100, Chris Green wrote:

T i m wrote:
On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 10:40:48 +0100, ss wrote:

On 09/06/2021 10:08, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
Yes not new news, just the timescale is now known, how is it then that I can
still buy tungsten bulbs in the high street?
I get the distinct impression that like lots of things, the law is just
ignored when it suits people.
Brian

Many tungsten were sold on ebay as `heaters`the wording got them around
the restrictions.

Which is probably a more accurate description of them, given most of
the energy going into them is converted into heat!

Same applies to LEDs, even the best are still only in the 30% to 40%
sort of area if you include the losses in the associated drivers etc.

Yeahbut, turn a 60W incandescent lamp on for 10 seconds and then try
and touch it. Have a 60W (light equiv) LED lamp on for 10 minutes and
it will still only feel warm?

Suggesting, that (light) like for like, LED's are generally much more
efficient as they generally run much cooler?

(I've got a 15W (equiv) desk lamp on here set up to the Home
Automation to come on when the light level drops below a certain
threshold and it's been on for a couple of hours now. Whilst it's
'warm' I can still easily unscrew it and take it out, not something
I'd try with even a 15W incandescent that had been on for a fraction
of that time). ;-(

Ulitimately of course *all* the energy ends up as heat.

What, even the stuff coming out as visible light / UV light?


Of course not. That becomes pixie dust.


--
Adam

On 09/06/2021 19:05, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Robin
writes
On 09/06/2021 14:06, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , nightjar
writes
On 09/06/2021 09:39, ss wrote:
..."Sales of halogen lightbulbs are to be banned in the UK from
September, with fluorescent lights to follow, under government
climate change plans"....

Apart from a few, rarely used, lamps that have yet to be changed, I
have long converted everything to LED.
Â*Hmm.. I have about 25 twin 5' florries in my workshop in 4 switched
banks. This may be the moment to do the LED conversion.



You have plenty of time to find 50 round tuits given they'll be phased
out "from Sept 2023 onwards"

Huh! Put up with an access tower on bare floor. Place is half full of
fixed machinery now.

Might be doable with an agile bloke from Doncaster:-)



How high?



--
Adam

On 09/06/2021 19:58, Chris Green wrote:
Owain Lastname wrote:
On Wednesday, 9 June 2021 at 15:19:56 UTC+1, Mark Carver wrote:
There is also the theatre where halogen lamps are still in use in
significant quantities.

Operating theatres too?

And vehicle headlights :-)

Illegal for LED headlights at present, I believe.

My motorbike has an LED headlight. I think it's *converting* to LED
that's not allowed.

When I looked into this, the issue was with cars and not bikes. You can
fit LEDs to cars if there is some self-levelling of headlamp aim and
headlamp wash-wipes. Those rules don't apply to bikes.

I also read that these rules only apply to lamps above a certain light
output.

BICBW

On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 19:57:35 +0100, Chris Green wrote:

T i m wrote:

Ulitimately of course *all* the energy ends up as heat.

What, even the stuff coming out as visible light / UV light?

Yes, of course, what else do you think happens to the energy?

I hadn't. ;-)

Some of the light may go out of your windows

So some (visible light) passing though my windows will heat the glass?

and the resultant heat is
lost from your house but the light will be absorbed by the atmosphere
and disappated as heat there.

Check.

I 'got' that radiated IR would 'heat' whatever was in it's path till
completely absorbed but I hadn't considered what would happen to
visible light etc (but appreciated it contained energy etc).

Ultimately a few photons worth of energy possibly escape into outer
space I suppose.

;-)

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 09/06/2021 17:45, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jun 2021 16:35:31 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jun 2021 15:57:24 +0100, Scott
wrote:

snip

Even better, you can get direct substitutes. I bought two four foot
long LED tubes for the utility room, which fitted the existing
ballast after replacing the starter with a dummy.

I've *just* picked up a high output 5' LED florry replacement for a
fitting in the study / workshop but the fitting is electronic so I'm
going to have to bypass all the 'guts'.

The main reason for doing it isn't (primarily) the light but the hope
it will get rid of the mains hum ... ;-(

Mains hum from an electronic ballast? Something not right there as they
(should) run at a higher frequency to get rid of flicker.

Agreed, however, the 'hum' clearly goes on and off with the light so
if it's not from the fitting it's from the tube itself? Unfortunately
I can't easily test the LED tube in there because it's an HF fitting.
;-(

But then I did have similar with one of the 6' fittings in the kitchen
that was the LED tube (I just thought I hadn't noticed it with the
florry). Took all the guts out completely, that fitting with the
second hand LED tube in it still hummed like a goodun? ;-(

Two new LED tubes from TLC seemed to cure it. ;-)

(I may be hypersensitive to 50hz because of my tinnitus).

Most LED tube replacements specifically say they should not be fitted
without the HF ballast first being removed.

doesn't have to be removed - just disconnected.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

"Scott" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 12:20:16 +0100, nightjar wrote:

On 09/06/2021 09:39, ss wrote:
..."Sales of halogen lightbulbs are to be banned in the UK from
September, with fluorescent lights to follow, under government climate
change plans"....

Apart from a few, rarely used, lamps that have yet to be changed, I have
long converted everything to LED.

Me too, except for my bedside lamp which is halogen for colour
rendition. Any comments on reading under a 230V LED spotlight? Would
you go for cool, daylight or warm?

People's preference on that varys dramatically. I'd get one you can vary
like the Philips Hue.

On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 15:24:17 +0100, Mark Carver
wrote:

snip

I doubt LEDs will work in our John Lewis 'touch sensitive/three level'
bedside lamps.

FWIW I put a dimmable LED lamp in mums 'touch sensitive three level'
table lamp (and two similar used as bedside lights) and it/they worked
fine? I can't imagine it was bought with LED compatibility in mind but
it could have been LED compatible of course.

They might have been bought from Homebase FWIW.

snip

Cheers, T i m

On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 16:07:42 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:

snip

I put the CFL back in

5W LED is just too damned bright to be turning on whilst you are sleepy

The fact that CFL often take a few seconds yo 'warm up' helps with
that.

makes of LED bulbs really ought to think about this

Some of the LED lamps that come on and off automatically as driven
from my Home Assistant system seem to 'ramp the on brightness'
slightly (quickly) and much more visually down when turning off
(compared when turning them off at the wall) so that change in
functionality is probably because they are being used 'smart'?

When they are off at the wall they are completely off (electrically)
of course whereas when off from Home Assistant they are still powered
but are set to zero light output.

If you set them to come on via a remote of some sort you can gave them
come on at whatever level is appropriate (and that could vary
depending on the time of day) but still be turned up or down as
required (same remote).

Cheers, T i m

On Thu, 10 Jun 2021 07:42:16 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


People's preference on that varys dramatically. I'd get one you can vary
like the Philips Hue.

Did I tell you already that you can shove your idiotic Philips Hue up your
senile arse, just like your idiotPhone, your Alexa and your Google Maps?

--
about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID:

On 09/06/2021 15:24, Mark Carver wrote:
On 09/06/2021 14:25, NY wrote:

We tend to use Philips Hue for bedside lamps, and these can be set to
anything from cool shady daylight (probably about 10000 K) to very
warm tungsten (about 2000 K). I find that a sunlight temperature
(about 4000-5000 K) is a good compromise. Supposedly warmer light than
that is better for reading in an evening, so as not to stimulate the
body to produce melatonin which can cause problems getting to sleep
because the body sees it as daylight rather than "time to feel sleepy".

I doubt LEDs will work in our John Lewis 'touch sensitive/three level'
bedside lamps.

(I notice the current version on their websiteÂ* takes an LED bulb)

I expect it's a single brightness lamp so no problems with dimming.

My ASDA three brightness lamp failed so I replaced the touch circuit
with an inline switch. Then I bought a replacement which was single
brightness and took LED. Had to as it can only switch 4W.

--
Max Demian

"tim..." wrote in message
...


"Scott" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 12:20:16 +0100, nightjar wrote:

On 09/06/2021 09:39, ss wrote:
..."Sales of halogen lightbulbs are to be banned in the UK from
September, with fluorescent lights to follow, under government climate
change plans"....

Apart from a few, rarely used, lamps that have yet to be changed, I have
long converted everything to LED.

Me too, except for my bedside lamp which is halogen for colour
rendition.

I put the CFL back in

5W LED is just too damned bright to be turning on whilst you are sleepy

makes of LED bulbs really ought to think about this

Philips did with the Hues. You are free to have any brightness you like as
the default
with turn on and free to have it come on slowly like CFLs do too if you
want.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 09 Jun 2021 17:14:34 +0100, Scott
wrote:

On Wed, 09 Jun 2021 16:22:46 +0100, Scott
wrote:

On Wed, 09 Jun 2021 16:11:48 +0100, T i m wrote:

On Wed, 09 Jun 2021 15:57:24 +0100, Scott
wrote:

snip

Even better, you can get direct substitutes. I bought two four foot
long LED tubes for the utility room, which fitted the existing ballast
after replacing the starter with a dummy.

I've *just* picked up a high output 5' LED florry replacement for a
fitting in the study / workshop but the fitting is electronic so I'm
going to have to bypass all the 'guts'.

Did it not come with a replacement 'starter', which just shorts out
the starter unit or does this only work with non-electronic ballasts
(as mine was)?

The main reason for doing it isn't (primarily) the light but the hope
it will get rid of the mains hum ... ;-(

It achieved that.

PS Now I remember. I think it comes as two versions: one for
electronic ballasts and one for non-electronic. Mine was the latter
(which I think is easier).

Yeah, the two I did for the kitchen were 'old skool' and I removed the
ballast and cap completely on one and just wired it though the
non-starter (because mine had 250mA fuses in them) and the other still
has the ballast and cap in circuit (for now).

Remembering this particular unit was HF got me thinking that I should
have replaced the entire fitting for an LED one, however I think I'm
better off saying with the 'tube' design as then I can swap out the
tubes if they fail or if I want to change the usage (less bright,
warmer etc) without replacing the entire unit.

You don't have to with a decent led string, just tell it what you
want color and brightness wise and set that as the new default.

I'm probably also going to include that lamp into the HA with an
occupancy sensor as I'm generally only turning it on when working in
there or setting up the 3D printer. I'm getting too used to the hall,
kitchen and landing lights going on and off automatically (movement /
occupancy) it seems quite 'primitive to have to still turn some on and
off yourself. ;-)

Yeah, I'd never go back to physical switches again, dinosaur stuff.

Mine can even be disabled so I can prowl around the house and
see whats happening outside if I hear something unusual outside.

On 09/06/2021 15:24, Mark Carver wrote:
On 09/06/2021 14:25, NY wrote:

We tend to use Philips Hue for bedside lamps, and these can be set to
anything from cool shady daylight (probably about 10000 K) to very
warm tungsten (about 2000 K). I find that a sunlight temperature
(about 4000-5000 K) is a good compromise. Supposedly warmer light than
that is better for reading in an evening, so as not to stimulate the
body to produce melatonin which can cause problems getting to sleep
because the body sees it as daylight rather than "time to feel sleepy".

I doubt LEDs will work in our John Lewis 'touch sensitive/three level'
bedside lamps.

(I notice the current version on their websiteÂ* takes an LED bulb)

I'll start stockpiling spare halogens for ours now....

Very wise. Dimmers intended for incandescent lamps tend to be leading
edge. Even if it did work, I suspect the different non-linear
characteristics would mean that the LED lamp wouldn't dim nearly as much
as the halogen.

I'm sure halogen will still be available in its guises, but not from the
leading manufacturers, and so be of a somewhat variable quality.

On 09/06/2021 23:03, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 16:07:42 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:

snip

I put the CFL back in

5W LED is just too damned bright to be turning on whilst you are sleepy

The fact that CFL often take a few seconds yo 'warm up' helps with
that.

makes of LED bulbs really ought to think about this

Some of the LED lamps that come on and off automatically as driven
from my Home Assistant system seem to 'ramp the on brightness'
slightly (quickly) and much more visually down when turning off
(compared when turning them off at the wall) so that change in
functionality is probably because they are being used 'smart'?

I assume that would be a receiver function. Can you provide details of
the lamp (systems) you're driving?

Is this over Wi-Fi, over mains, or some other transmission medium?

On 09/06/2021 22:33, charles wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 09/06/2021 17:45, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jun 2021 16:35:31 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jun 2021 15:57:24 +0100, Scott
wrote:

snip

Even better, you can get direct substitutes. I bought two four foot
long LED tubes for the utility room, which fitted the existing
ballast after replacing the starter with a dummy.

I've *just* picked up a high output 5' LED florry replacement for a
fitting in the study / workshop but the fitting is electronic so I'm
going to have to bypass all the 'guts'.

The main reason for doing it isn't (primarily) the light but the hope
it will get rid of the mains hum ... ;-(

Mains hum from an electronic ballast? Something not right there as they
(should) run at a higher frequency to get rid of flicker.

Agreed, however, the 'hum' clearly goes on and off with the light so
if it's not from the fitting it's from the tube itself? Unfortunately
I can't easily test the LED tube in there because it's an HF fitting.
;-(

But then I did have similar with one of the 6' fittings in the kitchen
that was the LED tube (I just thought I hadn't noticed it with the
florry). Took all the guts out completely, that fitting with the
second hand LED tube in it still hummed like a goodun? ;-(

Two new LED tubes from TLC seemed to cure it. ;-)

(I may be hypersensitive to 50hz because of my tinnitus).

Most LED tube replacements specifically say they should not be fitted
without the HF ballast first being removed.

doesn't have to be removed - just disconnected.

Quite. I've bypassed the ballasts in mine to save a few watts

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
When I looked into this, the issue was with cars and not bikes. You can
fit LEDs to cars if there is some self-levelling of headlamp aim and
headlamp wash-wipes. Those rules don't apply to bikes.

I also read that these rules only apply to lamps above a certain light
output.

That could make more sense. But I think you're wrong. That is the problem
with headlight regs. They don't mention light output.

--
*A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 10 Jun 2021 08:51:55 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

snip

Remembering this particular unit was HF got me thinking that I should
have replaced the entire fitting for an LED one, however I think I'm
better off saying with the 'tube' design as then I can swap out the
tubes if they fail or if I want to change the usage (less bright,
warmer etc) without replacing the entire unit.

You don't have to with a decent led string, just tell it what you
want color and brightness wise and set that as the new default.

True, a 'smart' striplight ... but I don't suppose a 27W 5' one of
those would be 16 pounds?

I do actually have a self-adhesive stop of LEDS that give me colour
and brightness that I was thinking of sticking up in the same place as
this striplight (it's under a single bed that I built into the
box-room wall and over a full width 1M deep desk) and I still might
give it a go. It's an Aldi branded jobby and whilst I can fully
control it on the Aldi (and other) apps, I can't (or I can't as yet)
fully manage it in Home Assistant.

I'm probably also going to include that lamp into the HA with an
occupancy sensor as I'm generally only turning it on when working in
there or setting up the 3D printer. I'm getting too used to the hall,
kitchen and landing lights going on and off automatically (movement /
occupancy) it seems quite 'primitive to have to still turn some on and
off yourself. ;-)

Yeah, I'd never go back to physical switches again, dinosaur stuff.

;-)

Mine can even be disabled so I can prowl around the house and
see whats happening outside if I hear something unusual outside.

Yeah, I was going to setup something similar, an 'All lights on full'
or 'All lights off' remote button but haven't as yet. I think I'll get
some more of the little 'Trafdi' remotes because they are cheap, seem
to work fairly well, seem to be pretty reliable, every good on
batteries and are magnetically held onto their backing so can be
lifted off. They also seem well supported in HA and I have already
used them for controlling all sorts of things.

I think they are (or were) 6 quid each or 10 quid if bought with an
ES27 smart lamp? I'll probably get them with the lamps as 4 quid for a
fairly bright / flexible lamp (you can change the colour temp and
brightness ... and with a 3 yr warranty(?)) seems pretty good value?

Cheers, T i m

On 10/06/2021 00:18, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
When I looked into this, the issue was with cars and not bikes. You can
fit LEDs to cars if there is some self-levelling of headlamp aim and
headlamp wash-wipes. Those rules don't apply to bikes.

I also read that these rules only apply to lamps above a certain light
output.

That could make more sense. But I think you're wrong. That is the problem
with headlight regs. They don't mention light output.

I tried looking up the claim and have come to the conclusion I must have
dreamt it. From:

https://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/bl...gal-in-the-uk/

Please note that since January 2021, the MOT Inspection manual has been
updated to include LED bulbs.

Section 4.1.4 now states the following:

€œExisting halogen headlamp units should not be converted to be used with
high intensity discharge (HID) or light emitting diode (LED) bulbs. If
such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp.€�

This is a brand new update that seems to only focus on headlights.

There are no mentions to fail other LED bulbs such as brake lights, tail
lights or reversing lights."

On 09/06/2021 16:36, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I sort of assumed with a 1 metre dish it would be pretty tolerant. Find
any one of the Astra group and the others would be OK. But not so -
obviously.


If you look at the full spectrum at 28E on an analyser and gently pull
at the rim of the dish you can see some signals strengthen whilst others
weaken.

Bill

On 09/06/2021 17:28, T i m wrote:

Ulitimately of course *all* the energy ends up as heat.

What, even the stuff coming out as visible light / UV light?

I suppose when it is absorbed it produces heat.

Bill