Not fresh off the wires, about a week old

I am surprised no one here jumped on this story...

Frank

TOKYO, Japan (AP) -- Japanese police on Monday raided a precision
instrument maker, a company official said, amid media reports it
allegedly exported machinery to China and Thailand that could be used
in uranium enrichment.

Investigators raided the headquarters of Mitutoyo Corp. on Monday
morning, according to a company official who refused to be named,
citing internal regulations. The official said she could not provide
further details, but said the company was "cooperating fully" with
investigations.

Mitutoyo Corp. is suspected of exporting two three-dimensional
measurement machines that can be used for uranium enrichment -- a
technology that can produce nuclear fuel or bombs -- to subsidiaries
of Japanese firms in China and Thailand in 2001, according to a report
carried Sunday by the Yomiuri Shimbun, Japan's largest daily.

The International Atomic Energy Agency also discovered Mitutoyo
machinery at nuclear-related sites in Libya during inspections in
December 2003 and January 2004, the Yomiuri also said, citing
unidentified sources. The Mainichi and Sankei dailies carried a
similar report Sunday.

The Tokyo Metropolitan Police could not disclose any information on
ongoing investigations.

The three-dimensional measurement device is generally used to spot
deformations on a range of equipment. It cannot be exported without
special government permission because it can also be used to determine
centrifugal distances in the process of uranium enrichment, according
to Mikio Aoki, an official at the Ministry of Economy, Trade and
Industry.

Aoki, however, said he was not authorized to speak on the allegations
against Mitutoyo, or on the IAEA findings. He said he was unaware of
previous cases of alleged illegal export by the company.

Police suspect machinery exported by Mitutoyo may have also reached
North Korea via the international black market in nuclear-related
technology, the Sankei said.

Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material
may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.


http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/afx...fx2519862.html


http://www.asahi.com/english/Herald-...602160149.html


http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...E31477,00.html

Frank Fallen wrote:

Not fresh off the wires, about a week old

I am surprised no one here jumped on this story...

Frank

TOKYO, Japan (AP) -- Japanese police on Monday raided a precision
instrument maker, a company official said, amid media reports it
allegedly exported machinery to China and Thailand that could be used
in uranium enrichment.

Investigators raided the headquarters of Mitutoyo Corp. on Monday
morning, according to a company official who refused to be named,
citing internal regulations. The official said she could not provide
further details, but said the company was "cooperating fully" with
investigations.

Mitutoyo Corp. is suspected of exporting two three-dimensional
measurement machines that can be used for uranium enrichment -- a
technology that can produce nuclear fuel or bombs -- to subsidiaries
of Japanese firms in China and Thailand in 2001, according to a report
carried Sunday by the Yomiuri Shimbun, Japan's largest daily.

The International Atomic Energy Agency also discovered Mitutoyo
machinery at nuclear-related sites in Libya during inspections in
December 2003 and January 2004, the Yomiuri also said, citing
unidentified sources. The Mainichi and Sankei dailies carried a
similar report Sunday.

The Tokyo Metropolitan Police could not disclose any information on
ongoing investigations.

The three-dimensional measurement device is generally used to spot
deformations on a range of equipment. It cannot be exported without
special government permission because it can also be used to determine
centrifugal distances in the process of uranium enrichment, according
to Mikio Aoki, an official at the Ministry of Economy, Trade and
Industry.

Aoki, however, said he was not authorized to speak on the allegations
against Mitutoyo, or on the IAEA findings. He said he was unaware of
previous cases of alleged illegal export by the company.

Police suspect machinery exported by Mitutoyo may have also reached
North Korea via the international black market in nuclear-related
technology, the Sankei said.

Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material
may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/afx...fx2519862.html

http://www.asahi.com/english/Herald-...602160149.html

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...E31477,00.html

Shaublin, the Swiss tool maker was raided in a related issue several
years back. AFAIK it has to do with the ability to measure, and machine,
to very close tolerances for the making of enrichment centrifuges. Kinda
ho-hum as news stories go. There is a lot of tooling out there that can
hold to the specs required, as I understand it. That some of it gets
brought in the back door to countries that other countries don't want to
have it, no real surprise either.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 17:39:05 -0500, Frank Fallen
wrote:

it
allegedly exported machinery to China and Thailand that == could == be used
in uranium enrichment.
========================================
Hammers and screwdrivers *ARE* used in uranium enrichment.

More anti-terror BS. FWIW -- the PRC has had nukes for like 30
years.

Japan, Inc. has many financial problems and is an aging society
with no immigration. Their politicians need something [anything]
external to blame their troubles on and occupy public attention.

Uncle George

F. George McDuffee wrote in
:

it
allegedly exported machinery to China and Thailand that == could ==
be used in uranium enrichment.
========================================
Hammers and screwdrivers *ARE* used in uranium enrichment.

More anti-terror BS. FWIW -- the PRC has had nukes for like 30
years.

Japan, Inc. has many financial problems and is an aging society
with no immigration. Their politicians need something [anything]
external to blame their troubles on and occupy public attention.

It was a high end CMM, so a bit different than a screwdriver. Actually
three of them IIRC. Anyway they got pinched a few years back for the same
thing with North Korea. As I recall the original purchaser of the CMM was
legit, but it ended up on the black market. I don't know how they expect
the manufacturer to keep tabs on the equipment after it leaves their
factory.

As an aside, the Japanese government tracks every sale of every Japanese
built machine tool. They have forms to fill out and they want to know who
bought it, where it was installed, and what type of industry it's being
used in.

--

Dan

On 28 Feb 2006 04:28:14 GMT, D Murphy
wrote:

F. George McDuffee wrote in
:

it
allegedly exported machinery to China and Thailand that == could ==
be used in uranium enrichment.
========================================
Hammers and screwdrivers *ARE* used in uranium enrichment.

More anti-terror BS. FWIW -- the PRC has had nukes for like 30
years.

Japan, Inc. has many financial problems and is an aging society
with no immigration. Their politicians need something [anything]
external to blame their troubles on and occupy public attention.

It was a high end CMM, so a bit different than a screwdriver. Actually
three of them IIRC. Anyway they got pinched a few years back for the same
thing with North Korea. As I recall the original purchaser of the CMM was
legit, but it ended up on the black market. I don't know how they expect
the manufacturer to keep tabs on the equipment after it leaves their
factory.

As an aside, the Japanese government tracks every sale of every Japanese
built machine tool. They have forms to fill out and they want to know who
bought it, where it was installed, and what type of industry it's being
used in.
========================
I am sure this keeps many people employed.

Consider that the U.S. was able to make quite serviceable nukes
in 1943/44/45 with totally manual machine tools and a great deal
of care, and it should be clear why this is simply a feel good
measure.

The genie is out of the bottle and he ain't going back. Closest
historical analog I see is the introduction of the firearm. In
large sizes it rendered the castles obsolete and in the small
sizes it rendered the knight-in-armor obsolete, directly leading
to the demise of manorialism and the rise of royal
nationalism/mercantielism. The bigger the country or the bigger
the city, the bigger the target.

To be sure there will be the new Korean Sea or the Iranian Ocean
that glows at night, but this will be small comfort to the people
that participated in the non eminent domain [instant] urban
renewal in the U.S.

Uncle George

F. George McDuffee wrote in
:

Consider that the U.S. was able to make quite serviceable nukes
in 1943/44/45 with totally manual machine tools and a great deal
of care, and it should be clear why this is simply a feel good
measure.

True, but that was a fission bomb. It took a lot of skill and the very best
machine tools and minds available. To make a small high yield bomb (the
kind that can fly) you need to make a hydrogen bomb. The yield is
limitless, providing you can get enough tritium into it. (Near where I live
the power company has dumped a considerable amount of tritium into the
water shed.)

Anyway, to build that sort of device a good five axis mill and a means to
measure accurately are required. Surely those tools can be easily bought
here in the US. But to sell them to Iran or N. Korea is pure folly. I'm
sure they could, through trial and error, produce a working bomb. To give
them high end machine tools and the means to measure the work just reduces
the amount of time it will take them to get it right. Then they will have
the means to mass produce as well.

--

Dan

F. George McDuffee wrote in
:

The genie is out of the bottle and he ain't going back. Closest
historical analog I see is the introduction of the firearm. In
large sizes it rendered the castles obsolete and in the small
sizes it rendered the knight-in-armor obsolete, directly leading
to the demise of manorialism and the rise of royal
nationalism/mercantielism. The bigger the country or the bigger
the city, the bigger the target.

I believe it was the crossbow that ended feudal times not the firearm. Once
the average Joe could make an armour piercing weapon in his hovel, it was
all over for the knights.

The trick with nukes isn't just figuring out how to make one that will go
off. It's making one that you can deliver. Think of the device as a precice
and finicky scientific instrument. It's one thing to build it in place and
detonate it. It's all together another thing to build one that will
withstand multiple g-loads at launch, fly a huge distance, and hit the
target. A fission bomb is heavy relative to its yield. Manufacturing a
working hydrogen bomb is a very complex undertaking. Either one would be
difficult to deliver.

The suitcase bomb scenario is possible, but only at a very small yield, say
70 tons. The effect would be more psychological than it would "mass
destruction" wise. Though it would certainly make a mess and irradiate a
fairly large area.

There are few countries that could pull off the manufacture of such a
device. Then they would have to get it here undetected, and it would have
to work. In theory it's possible, but is it plausible? Every year that goes
by brings the technology closer to those who want it but can't put it
together. Helping them along with advanced machine tool technology isn't
very smart IMO. But it's probably unavoidable.

--

Dan

On 28 Feb 2006 07:23:36 GMT, D Murphy wrote:

The suitcase bomb scenario is possible, but only at a very small yield, say
70 tons. The effect would be more psychological than it would "mass
destruction" wise. Though it would certainly make a mess and irradiate a
fairly large area.

Actually some ADMs run from 3-5 Kt in yield. There is speculation that
the Soviet units (some 50 or more unaccounted for) were as much as
7-10, using some unique technology and I belive Tritium. Which means
they could well be beyond their shelf life and an attempt to detonate
them might result in a fizzle.

http://www.rotten.com/library/crime/...uitcase-nukes/

One source of information. YMMV

Another

http://www.tinyvital.com/Misc/nukes.htm



Gunner



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

While the points about a small bomb delivered by a missile are valid,
the first one that the United States will have to recover from will be
delivered in a 40' container.

It is not if but when.....

TMT

And yet it didn't prevent Toshiba from selling prohibited
high end milling machines to the USSR a few years ago.

D Murphy wrote:

As an aside, the Japanese government tracks every sale of every Japanese
built machine tool. They have forms to fill out and they want to know who
bought it, where it was installed, and what type of industry it's being
used in.

--Well we taught 'em how to be Ferengis back in the '40s; whaddya
expect??

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Are you prepared to
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : obey the Noodly Master??
http://www.nmpproducts.com/intro.htm
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

Yeah funy thing about Toshiba, they sold equipment the Soviets used to
make quieter submarine screws. Now you can buy their products in the
Navy Exchange!
A nation of whores.

On 28 Feb 2006 07:31:38 -0800, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote:
While the points about a small bomb delivered by a missile are valid,
the first one that the United States will have to recover from will be
delivered in a 40' container.
It is not if but when.....
TMT
==================
and most likely shipped C.O.D. at that.....

Uncle George

On 28 Feb 2006 17:25:15 GMT, steamer wrote:

--Well we taught 'em how to be Ferengis back in the '40s; whaddya
expect??
======================
Japanese always were sharp traders/merchants. They were among
the first to create conglomerate trading companies called
KEIRETSU
see: http://www.witiger.com/international...sogoshosha.htm

The United States has no one to blame but our selves for our
current and rapidly increasing economic problems. We have
continually (and in too many cases deliberately) mistaken
appearance for reality. The only way to have more [in the long
term] is to make more. Anything else is simply bourgeoise
b***s***

General Motors, Ford and the stock/bond markets [actually the
owners of their so-called securities) are about to learn the hard
way, the same lesson that Orange County [California] did about
the reality of the "magical perpetual motion money machine."

Unka George

In article ,
F. George McDuffee wrote:

On 28 Feb 2006 07:31:38 -0800, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote:
While the points about a small bomb delivered by a missile are valid,
the first one that the United States will have to recover from will be
delivered in a 40' container.
It is not if but when.....
TMT
==================
and most likely shipped C.O.D. at that.....

Or driven from Mexico labelled pot

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

In article ,
D Murphy wrote:

I believe it was the crossbow that ended feudal times not the firearm. Once
the average Joe could make an armour piercing weapon in his hovel, it was
all over for the knights.

I think a longbow could do as well as a crossbow. The weal link for the
knights was the horse, it's not hard to take a horse down.

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 22:26:33 GMT, Nick Hull
wrote:

In article ,
D Murphy wrote:

I believe it was the crossbow that ended feudal times not the firearm. Once
the average Joe could make an armour piercing weapon in his hovel, it was
all over for the knights.

I think a longbow could do as well as a crossbow. The weal link for the
knights was the horse, it's not hard to take a horse down.
==============
The problem is practicing/training. Both crossbows and esp. long
bows require both skill and considerable strength. With a
firearm a serf, with no particular practice, skill or strength
could take out Sir BigB***s after a few minutes practice, esp. if
he was standing sholder to sholder with 20 other serfs.

Perfect case of asymetric warfare. Base citizens with almost no
skill or training took out the equivilant of an Abrams M1 tank
manned by a knight with years of training and with equipment
costing hundres or possibly thousands of times what even a bunch
of serfs had. Horses and esp. armor was worth a king's ransom.

Unka George

D Murphy wrote:

F. George McDuffee wrote in
:

it
allegedly exported machinery to China and Thailand that == could ==
be used in uranium enrichment.
========================================
Hammers and screwdrivers *ARE* used in uranium enrichment.

More anti-terror BS. FWIW -- the PRC has had nukes for like 30
years.

Japan, Inc. has many financial problems and is an aging society
with no immigration. Their politicians need something [anything]
external to blame their troubles on and occupy public attention.

It was a high end CMM, so a bit different than a screwdriver. Actually
three of them IIRC. Anyway they got pinched a few years back for the same
thing with North Korea. As I recall the original purchaser of the CMM was
legit, but it ended up on the black market. I don't know how they expect
the manufacturer to keep tabs on the equipment after it leaves their
factory.

As an aside, the Japanese government tracks every sale of every Japanese
built machine tool. They have forms to fill out and they want to know who
bought it, where it was installed, and what type of industry it's being
used in.

--

Dan


A company in the US bought a machine tool that was not supposed to be in
the US. Somehow the machine tool mfgr. got charged for the import of
the machine, probably on its quota limit. Anyway, when they came to put
the machine together the serial number of the machine was sent back to
the home office in Japan. The technicians all walked off the job and
would not touch the machine. It took them a couple of years to find
someone to assemble the machine. They still have problems getting
factory parts for the machine.

John

Mike Berger wrote in news:du1tp9$orm$1
@roundup.shout.net:

And yet it didn't prevent Toshiba from selling prohibited
high end milling machines to the USSR a few years ago.


The paperwork amped up after that episode. What Toshiba did at the time was
illegal but the oversight wasn't strict, so they almost got away with it.

--

Dan

John wrote in news:44065E54.9A20DDB4
@intergrafix.net:

A company in the US bought a machine tool that was not supposed to be in
the US. Somehow the machine tool mfgr. got charged for the import of
the machine, probably on its quota limit. Anyway, when they came to put
the machine together the serial number of the machine was sent back to
the home office in Japan. The technicians all walked off the job and
would not touch the machine. It took them a couple of years to find
someone to assemble the machine. They still have problems getting
factory parts for the machine.

It could also be that the machine violates some other company's patent. The
patent may not apply in Japan or they just ignore it, never intending for
the machine to leave the country. Then some Japanese company moves it to a
US plant or just plain sells it used and it gets exported. Uh oh, could be
big trouble for the company that built it.

Also many US companies licensed their designs to Japanese builders with the
condition that the machines would only be sold in Japan. But some still
ended up here one way or another. Which creates a legal problem for the
Japanese builder.

--

Dan

D Murphy wrote:

John wrote in news:44065E54.9A20DDB4
@intergrafix.net:

A company in the US bought a machine tool that was not supposed to be in
the US. Somehow the machine tool mfgr. got charged for the import of
the machine, probably on its quota limit. Anyway, when they came to put
the machine together the serial number of the machine was sent back to
the home office in Japan. The technicians all walked off the job and
would not touch the machine. It took them a couple of years to find
someone to assemble the machine. They still have problems getting
factory parts for the machine.

It could also be that the machine violates some other company's patent. The
patent may not apply in Japan or they just ignore it, never intending for
the machine to leave the country. Then some Japanese company moves it to a
US plant or just plain sells it used and it gets exported. Uh oh, could be
big trouble for the company that built it.

Also many US companies licensed their designs to Japanese builders with the
condition that the machines would only be sold in Japan. But some still
ended up here one way or another. Which creates a legal problem for the
Japanese builder.

--

Dan

Never thought of that. Its a real nice machne though, and belive it or
not the mechanical and electrical manuals are pretty good, even thought
they are in Japanese with a separate manual for translating the words.
Its an O-M vertical cnc live tooling lathe with pallet changer. I
forget the model.

John