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In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 12/06/2021 18:14, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 12/06/2021 14:12, #Paul wrote:
Fredxx wrote:
I'm sure the eye response is very different to film emulsion response.

Also, which may be relevant here - eye responses differ, sometimes
by quite a lot - between people.


They do indeed.


But the relevant blue, red, green cones in eyes have a similar
response in terms of wavelength.


Where the difference you mention comes from having different
proportions of these cones, or even one type missing.


It's interesting to view a narrow spectrum light - like say yellow low
pressure sodium - then match it by adjusting the RGB drives to a
monitor. No two people will get the same result.


Is your experience is with CRT? These are associated with poor purity
wrt to LCD


http://www.marcelpatek.com/LCD.html


You can use a light box if you prefer. Any method of generating a variable
colour light.

I would wager, if you have a 'pure' green LED light mixed with a 'pure'
red LED I suspect the difference would be somewhat less for the average
observer, except those who are truly missing a set of cones or someone
who cannot distinguish between red and green.


BICBW


it is to demonstrate that we see colours differently. Two people with
nominally perfect colour vision will disagree about the best match. And
it's not subtle, either.

Obviously, we agree on the name of a colour by experience. But if we could
swap brains, would that still hold true?

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To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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On 12/06/2021 19:26, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 12/06/2021 18:14, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 12/06/2021 14:12, #Paul wrote:
Fredxx wrote:
I'm sure the eye response is very different to film emulsion response.

Also, which may be relevant here - eye responses differ, sometimes
by quite a lot - between people.

They do indeed.

But the relevant blue, red, green cones in eyes have a similar
response in terms of wavelength.

Where the difference you mention comes from having different
proportions of these cones, or even one type missing.

It's interesting to view a narrow spectrum light - like say yellow low
pressure sodium - then match it by adjusting the RGB drives to a
monitor. No two people will get the same result.


Is your experience is with CRT? These are associated with poor purity
wrt to LCD


http://www.marcelpatek.com/LCD.html


You can use a light box if you prefer. Any method of generating a variable
colour light.

I would wager, if you have a 'pure' green LED light mixed with a 'pure'
red LED I suspect the difference would be somewhat less for the average
observer, except those who are truly missing a set of cones or someone
who cannot distinguish between red and green.


BICBW


it is to demonstrate that we see colours differently. Two people with
nominally perfect colour vision will disagree about the best match. And
it's not subtle, either.

Obviously, we agree on the name of a colour by experience. But if we could
swap brains, would that still hold true?


Thanks.

My incorrect belief was that cone response would be largely
non-overlapping and uniform from person to person. And that colour
blindness would be primarily caused by missing or mixing of cones'
responses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cone_cell
This suggests that colour response is different from person to person
for a specific type of cone.

This is an interesting article regarding tetrachromacy in humans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrachromacy

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On 10/06/2021 00:14, Fredxx wrote:
On 09/06/2021 23:03, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 16:07:42 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:

snip

I put the CFL back in

5W LED is just too damned bright to be turning on whilst you are sleepy


The fact that CFL often take a few seconds yo 'warm up' helps with
that.

makes of LED bulbs really ought to think about this

Some of the LED lamps that come on and off automatically as driven
from my Home Assistant system seem to 'ramp the on brightness'
slightly (quickly) and much more visually down when turning off
(compared when turning them off at the wall) so that change in
functionality is probably because they are being used 'smart'?


I assume that would be a receiver function. Can you provide details of
the lamp (systems) you're driving?

Is this over Wi-Fi, over mains, or some other transmission medium?


I can only guess you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

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"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 10/06/2021 00:14, Fredxx wrote:
On 09/06/2021 23:03, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 16:07:42 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:

snip

I put the CFL back in

5W LED is just too damned bright to be turning on whilst you are sleepy

The fact that CFL often take a few seconds yo 'warm up' helps with
that.

makes of LED bulbs really ought to think about this

Some of the LED lamps that come on and off automatically as driven
from my Home Assistant system seem to 'ramp the on brightness'
slightly (quickly) and much more visually down when turning off
(compared when turning them off at the wall) so that change in
functionality is probably because they are being used 'smart'?


I assume that would be a receiver function. Can you provide details of
the lamp (systems) you're driving?

Is this over Wi-Fi, over mains, or some other transmission medium?


I can only guess you don't have a clue what you're talking about.


Bad assumption. The Philips Hue system does it using wifi and bluetooth.

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On 12/06/2021 21:15, Rod Speed wrote:
"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 10/06/2021 00:14, Fredxx wrote:
On 09/06/2021 23:03, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 16:07:42 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:

snip

I put the CFL back in

5W LED is just too damned bright to be turning on whilst you are
sleepy

The fact that CFL often take a few seconds yo 'warm up' helps with
that.

makes of LED bulbs really ought to think about this

Some of the LED lamps that come on and off automatically as driven
from my Home Assistant system seem to 'ramp the on brightness'
slightly (quickly) and much more visually down when turning off
(compared when turning them off at the wall) so that change in
functionality is probably because they are being used 'smart'?

I assume that would be a receiver function. Can you provide details
of the lamp (systems) you're driving?

Is this over Wi-Fi, over mains, or some other transmission medium?


I can only guess you don't have a clue what you're talking about.


Bad assumption. The Philips Hue system does it using wifi and bluetooth.


Not sure about that. You seem to know a whole lot more than T i m.
Thanks for the info.



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On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 06:15:51 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

snip

I can only guess you don't have a clue what you're talking about.


Bad assumption.


But one he makes over and over about pretty well everything
(especially if Google tells him so).

The Philips Hue system does it using wifi and bluetooth.


And much of my stuff is Zigbee (as is Philips Hue I believe).

But did you see the fuss the DickHeadxx made (and is still making)
about my *choice* to move away from the RPi as a platform for Home
Assistant because of his *insistence* that you could set one up to not
write to the uSD card, even though logging is very much part of what I
wanted my system for! Because *he* didn't see the point, I was wrong
(apparently)? Of course, I take no notice of his narcissistic drool
....

It's now currently running very smoothly on an 4GN Odroid N2+ with a
64GB eMMC and that has a 'wear indicator' so I can keep an eye on it
(currently sitting at zero etc).

Cheers, T i m
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On 12/06/2021 21:38, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 06:15:51 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

snip

I can only guess you don't have a clue what you're talking about.


Bad assumption.


But one he makes over and over about pretty well everything
(especially if Google tells him so).

The Philips Hue system does it using wifi and bluetooth.


And much of my stuff is Zigbee (as is Philips Hue I believe).

But did you see the fuss the DickHeadxx made (and is still making)
about my *choice* to move away from the RPi as a platform for Home
Assistant because of his *insistence* that you could set one up to not
write to the uSD card, even though logging is very much part of what I
wanted my system for! Because *he* didn't see the point,


I very much saw the point. You could have saved the log file to any
attached or network storage but didn't seem to know how.

I was wrong
(apparently)? Of course, I take no notice of his narcissistic drool


Yes you were wrong to make the statement, "I think the RPi is not
considered the best choice for a serious / long term system is that it
runs on an SD and that's not good for long term writes".

You didn't think and anyone with knowledge about the Pi would have known
this was a lie.

It's now currently running very smoothly on an 4GN Odroid N2+ with a
64GB eMMC and that has a 'wear indicator' so I can keep an eye on it
(currently sitting at zero etc).


Not particularly cheap. You could have fitted a 500GB portable hard
drive to your Pi for greater life-expectancy and reduced cost.
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"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
I assume that would be a receiver function. Can you provide details of
the lamp (systems) you're driving?

Is this over Wi-Fi, over mains, or some other transmission medium?


I can only guess you don't have a clue what you're talking about.


Bad assumption. The Philips Hue system does it using wifi and bluetooth.


I'd always thought (and I could well be very wrong!) that Hue lights (and
other remote-control bulbs) communicated by signals modulated onto the mains
wiring, rather than by RF (wifi/bluetooth). I suppose the acid test is to
connect one bulb by a very long mains cable so it is a long way from any
other bulbs, and see if it can still be controlled.

I may be about to learn something... ;-)

I suppose within a house, there is the reasonable assumption that every bulb
will be close enough to at least one other bulb that a daisy-chained
wireless communication method is always viable, even when the end-to-end
size of the area covered is large.

Does anyone know why Philips Hue still have a maximum of around 50-60 bulbs
that can be controlled by one Hue logon (and maybe one Hue hub)? It's the
one thing that customers are crying out for on the Philips forum, especially
with the increased use of a larger number of ceiling-mounted GU10s to light
a room rather than a much smaller number of brighter omnidirectional bulbs.
It's a shame there isn't a technology which allows a set of bulbs (defined
by their MAC address) to be controlled as a single unit (only consuming one
"unit" out of the 50-60).

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"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 12/06/2021 21:15, Rod Speed wrote:
"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 10/06/2021 00:14, Fredxx wrote:
On 09/06/2021 23:03, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 16:07:42 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:

snip

I put the CFL back in

5W LED is just too damned bright to be turning on whilst you are
sleepy

The fact that CFL often take a few seconds yo 'warm up' helps with
that.

makes of LED bulbs really ought to think about this

Some of the LED lamps that come on and off automatically as driven
from my Home Assistant system seem to 'ramp the on brightness'
slightly (quickly) and much more visually down when turning off
(compared when turning them off at the wall) so that change in
functionality is probably because they are being used 'smart'?

I assume that would be a receiver function. Can you provide details of
the lamp (systems) you're driving?

Is this over Wi-Fi, over mains, or some other transmission medium?

I can only guess you don't have a clue what you're talking about.


Bad assumption. The Philips Hue system does it using wifi and bluetooth.


Not sure about that.


I am and easy to check.

You seem to know a whole lot more than T i m. Thanks for the info.


No problem.

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"Fredxx" wrote in message
...

Yes you were wrong to make the statement, "I think the RPi is not
considered the best choice for a serious / long term system is that it
runs on an SD and that's not good for long term writes".

You didn't think and anyone with knowledge about the Pi would have known
this was a lie.


Agreed that you don't have to write a log file to a Pi's SD card. But if you
write it to a networked drive, *that* drive needs also not to be SD,
otherwise you are no better off. And writing to a physically-connected disk
(whether SD card or USB-connected spinning or solid-state disc) is probably
more reliable than writing to a network drive, where writes (and reads) will
fail if the network server (probably using SMB) fails or the network
infrastructure fails.

How does the Pi (or indeed any computer that has a solid-state disk) manage
to read/write/overwrite a swap file, where the contents will be changing
very frequently as different memory pages are swapped between RAM and disc,
without rapidly degrading the disc? Am I correct that it is the number of
writes (as opposed to reads) that causes the gradual damage to an SSD?



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On 12/06/2021 17:57, Fredxx wrote:
On 12/06/2021 14:12, #Paul wrote:
Fredxx wrote:
I'm sure the eye response is very different to film emulsion response.


Also, which may be relevant here - eye responses differ, sometimes
by quite a lot - between people.


They do indeed.

But the relevant blue, red, green cones in eyes have a similar response
in terms of wavelength.

Where the difference you mention comes from having different proportions
of these cones, or even one type missing.


Actually people have measured the responses of the cones and have found
that they are not RGB; one lot are blue sensitive and the other two are
in the yellow; yellow and greeny yellow. Rather close, but the brain can
make sense of them and detect subtle differences in colour. Non-primate
mammals such as dogs and cows just have the blue and the yellow.

It appears that, in (most) primates, the gene for the yellow cones
duplicated and one copy mutated to change its frequency sensitivity.

The RGB idea came from Maxwell who was a Famous Scientist who made the
first colour photograph (of a tartan scarf) by taking three pictures
through red, green and blue filters. But, in those days, photographic
emulsions weren't sensitive to red at all, so the "red" filter must have
been passing some other colour, perhaps UV.

But he was a Famous Scientist.

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NY wrote
Rod Speed wrote


I assume that would be a receiver function. Can you provide details of
the lamp (systems) you're driving?


Is this over Wi-Fi, over mains, or some other transmission medium?


I can only guess you don't have a clue what you're talking about.


Bad assumption. The Philips Hue system does it using wifi and bluetooth.


I'd always thought (and I could well be very wrong!)


Yes you are.

that Hue lights (and other remote-control bulbs) communicated by signals
modulated onto the mains wiring, rather than by RF (wifi/bluetooth).


No they dont.

I suppose the acid test is to connect one bulb by a very long mains cable
so it is a long way from any other bulbs, and see if it can still be
controlled.


And you will find that it cant be.

And some of the lights and the movement sensors
particularly and the kinetic switches dont even have
a mains connection at all and still work fine.

I may be about to learn something... ;-)


Depends on how bad of a slow learner you are :-(

I suppose within a house, there is the reasonable assumption that every
bulb will be close enough to at least one other bulb that a daisy-chained
wireless communication method is always viable, even when the end-to-end
size of the area covered is large.


Yes, thats one of the brilliances of the system.
Not unique to Philips Hue, its Zigbee.

Does anyone know why Philips Hue still have a maximum of around 50-60
bulbs that can be controlled by one Hue logon (and maybe one Hue hub)?


Its a limit imposed by the hub, what it can handle. You need an extra
hub to exceed that limit. It isnt an absolute limit because it isnt the
number of slots involved, its how it uses its limited internal memory.

It's the one thing that customers are crying out for on the Philips forum,
especially with the increased use of a larger number of ceiling-mounted
GU10s to light a room rather than a much smaller number of brighter
omnidirectional bulbs.


Yep.

It's a shame there isn't a technology which allows a set of bulbs (defined
by their MAC address) to be controlled as a single unit (only consuming
one "unit" out of the 50-60).



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On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 21:59:51 +0100, FredxxFredxx, the notorious,
troll-feeding, senile smartass, blathered again:



Not particularly cheap. You could have fitted a 500GB portable hard
drive to your Pi for greater life-expectancy and reduced cost.


Can't all you endlessly bull****ting senile idiots **** off to some
newsgroup like e.g. alt.senile.blabbermouths? BG
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On 12/06/2021 22:14, NY wrote:
"Fredxx" wrote in message
...

Yes you were wrong to make the statement, "I think the RPi is not
considered the best choice for a serious / long term system is that it
runs on an SD and that's not good for long term writes".

You didn't think and anyone with knowledge about the Pi would have
known this was a lie.


Agreed that you don't have to write a log file to a Pi's SD card. But if
you write it to a networked drive, *that* drive needs also not to be SD,
otherwise you are no better off. And writing to a physically-connected
disk (whether SD card or USB-connected spinning or solid-state disc) is
probably more reliable than writing to a network drive, where writes
(and reads) will fail if the network server (probably using SMB) fails
or the network infrastructure fails.

How does the Pi (or indeed any computer that has a solid-state disk)
manage to read/write/overwrite a swap file, where the contents will be
changing very frequently as different memory pages are swapped between
RAM and disc, without rapidly degrading the disc? Am I correct that it
is the number of writes (as opposed to reads) that causes the gradual
damage to an SSD?


The Pi is able to use RAM and doesn't generally need a separate swap
file. Although it is a facility you can enable but is not recommended as
it severely shortens the life of the SD card.

Most OSes with sufficient RAM don't need a swap file, or should I say
page file?

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Default Lonely Auto-contradicting Psychotic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert!

On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 07:06:48 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Not sure about that.


I am and easy to check.


Well, which sociopath is NOT sure about EVERYTHING, senile sociopath? LOL

--
"Who or What is Rod Speed?
Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/


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Default More Heavy Trolling by Senile Nym-Shifting Rodent Speed!

On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 07:29:19 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll****

--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing the auto-contradicting senile cretin:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID:
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On 12/06/2021 22:14, NY wrote:
"Fredxx" wrote in message
...

Yes you were wrong to make the statement, "I think the RPi is not
considered the best choice for a serious / long term system is that it
runs on an SD and that's not good for long term writes".

You didn't think and anyone with knowledge about the Pi would have
known this was a lie.


Agreed that you don't have to write a log file to a Pi's SD card. But if
you write it to a networked drive, *that* drive needs also not to be SD,
otherwise you are no better off. And writing to a physically-connected
disk (whether SD card or USB-connected spinning or solid-state disc) is
probably more reliable than writing to a network drive, where writes
(and reads) will fail if the network server (probably using SMB) fails
or the network infrastructure fails.

you can stop logging altogether or write it to ram disk


How does the Pi (or indeed any computer that has a solid-state disk)
manage to read/write/overwrite a swap file, where the contents will be
changing very frequently as different memory pages are swapped between
RAM and disc, without rapidly degrading the disc? Am I correct that it
is the number of writes (as opposed to reads) that causes the gradual
damage to an SSD?


you can eliminate swap altogether, or write it to a ram disk. Pointless,
but easy to configure if you cant get rid of swap altogether

I cant answer for the NVRAM chips used in pis, but on a 'real' SSD the
lifetime seems to be *better* than a real disk



--
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

Jonathan Swift.
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On 11/06/2021 21:06, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jun 2021 16:35:31 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

snip

I've *just* picked up a high output 5' LED florry replacement for a
fitting in the study / workshop but the fitting is electronic so I'm
going to have to bypass all the 'guts'.


The main reason for doing it isn't (primarily) the light but the hope
it will get rid of the mains hum ... ;-(


Mains hum from an electronic ballast? Something not right there as they
(should) run at a higher frequency to get rid of flicker.


I just upgraded it and you were right, it wasn't HF (so at least that
makes more sense re the hum).

I took it down so I could see / access it better and it's just a std
LF job but with an unusual (to me anyway) 'built in' electronic
starter.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjph...bigclivedotcom


--
Adam
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On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 11:22:26 +0100, ARW
wrote:

snip

I took it down so I could see / access it better and it's just a std
LF job but with an unusual (to me anyway) 'built in' electronic
starter.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjph...bigclivedotcom


Erm, it wasn't the 'electronic starter' bit that was unusual (or
unknown / function to me) but this particular 'built in' one, as seen
top left of the pictu

https://ibb.co/5WpjQm5

It was hard wired, 4x the size of a traditional starter / the same
size as the cap.

I knew what it was and what it did, just that I'd not seen one like
that before so wondered how common they were (in that format, and
partly why at a quick glance I thought the fitting was 'different' to
all the others I've dealt with over the years and that the difference
might have meant it was HF (It wasn't obviously, once I'd got it down
and could see inside it easily).


Cheers, T i m


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On Wed, 09 Jun 2021 19:23:26 +0100, Chris J Dixon wrote:

The Other John wrote:

In our bathroom we have 2 halogen wall lights with G9 40W mains capsules
rated at 460L each. Looking at LED replacements I can only see 200L
capsules, so we would get less than half the illumination. Fortunately
I have 5 spares so they should out last me!


I have 6 x 12 V MR16 bulbs in my bathroom, fed via a Dimpull. So far
they haven't made a version of the Dimpull that can handle LEDs.

In the 16 years since they were installed (tempting providence) I don't
think I have changed any bulbs, of which I have a stock, but I am on my
3rd Dimpull. Its soft start is obviously good for bulb life, just a
shame its own design isn't better.

Extrapolating, I don't think I need to worry.


+1 (assuming those Dimpull units are some version of an "electronic
transformer")

Some 7 or 8 years ago when we had the downstairs shower room
refurbished, I specified that the 4 halogen downlighters that SWIMBI had
decided to go for, use 12v lamps fed from transformers discovering that
the "transformers" I was expecting to see fitted were in fact 60W rated
smpsus which go into CC mode once the current demand tries to exceed the
5A limit of a 12v 60W rated smpsu as evidenced by the rather gratifyingly
half second ramp up to full brighteness on switch on.

This made them even kinder to the 35W 12v halogen lamps that I'd been
expecting even the older 12v transformers to be. The switch on surge in
this case being limited to just a 67% overcurrent rather than the 100 to
200 percent of an actual transformer (which is way better than the 1100
to 1200 percent current overload switch on surge you'd normally see with
mains voltage halogen lamps). As a consequence of this decision to avoid
mains voltage halogen lamps at all costs, I have not yet had to replace
any of the original lamps.



--
Johnny B Good


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On 13/06/2021 13:50, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 11:22:26 +0100, ARW
wrote:

snip

I took it down so I could see / access it better and it's just a std
LF job but with an unusual (to me anyway) 'built in' electronic
starter.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjph...bigclivedotcom


Erm, it wasn't the 'electronic starter' bit that was unusual (or
unknown / function to me) but this particular 'built in' one, as seen
top left of the pictu

https://ibb.co/5WpjQm5

It was hard wired, 4x the size of a traditional starter / the same
size as the cap.

I knew what it was and what it did, just that I'd not seen one like
that before so wondered how common they were (in that format, and
partly why at a quick glance I thought the fitting was 'different' to
all the others I've dealt with over the years and that the difference
might have meant it was HF (It wasn't obviously, once I'd got it down
and could see inside it easily).




Have you got a photo of it before it was disassembled?

That does look/sound like something I have never come across before.

Most unusual.

--
Adam
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On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 19:54:53 +0100, ARW
wrote:

On 13/06/2021 13:50, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 11:22:26 +0100, ARW
wrote:

snip

I took it down so I could see / access it better and it's just a std
LF job but with an unusual (to me anyway) 'built in' electronic
starter.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjph...bigclivedotcom


Erm, it wasn't the 'electronic starter' bit that was unusual (or
unknown / function to me) but this particular 'built in' one, as seen
top left of the pictu

https://ibb.co/5WpjQm5

It was hard wired, 4x the size of a traditional starter / the same
size as the cap.

I knew what it was and what it did, just that I'd not seen one like
that before so wondered how common they were (in that format, and
partly why at a quick glance I thought the fitting was 'different' to
all the others I've dealt with over the years and that the difference
might have meant it was HF (It wasn't obviously, once I'd got it down
and could see inside it easily).




Have you got a photo of it before it was disassembled?


No, sorry, but it was just a single, steel, white, Fitzgerald,
slimline 5', florry fitting with std keyhole cover retaining screws
all the components you see in the picture inline inside and (short of
the chock-block mains connection around the middle) nothing much more?

That does look/sound like something I have never come across before.


Strange, given how many you must have seen the insides of whilst
fitting.

Most unusual.


FWIW I bought it new from a local / reputable / trade-counter 'old
skool' electrical parts supplier (now gone) and probably about 30
years ago?

I opened the starter up for you OOI:

https://ibb.co/NmtrVh6

Looks pretty similar to the circuit in the BigClive teardown.

Cheers, T i m
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ARW ARW is offline
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On 13/06/2021 20:59, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 19:54:53 +0100, ARW
wrote:

On 13/06/2021 13:50, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 11:22:26 +0100, ARW
wrote:

snip

I took it down so I could see / access it better and it's just a std
LF job but with an unusual (to me anyway) 'built in' electronic
starter.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjph...bigclivedotcom

Erm, it wasn't the 'electronic starter' bit that was unusual (or
unknown / function to me) but this particular 'built in' one, as seen
top left of the pictu

https://ibb.co/5WpjQm5

It was hard wired, 4x the size of a traditional starter / the same
size as the cap.

I knew what it was and what it did, just that I'd not seen one like
that before so wondered how common they were (in that format, and
partly why at a quick glance I thought the fitting was 'different' to
all the others I've dealt with over the years and that the difference
might have meant it was HF (It wasn't obviously, once I'd got it down
and could see inside it easily).




Have you got a photo of it before it was disassembled?


No, sorry, but it was just a single, steel, white, Fitzgerald,
slimline 5', florry fitting with std keyhole cover retaining screws
all the components you see in the picture inline inside and (short of
the chock-block mains connection around the middle) nothing much more?

That does look/sound like something I have never come across before.


Strange, given how many you must have seen the insides of whilst
fitting.

Most unusual.


FWIW I bought it new from a local / reputable / trade-counter 'old
skool' electrical parts supplier (now gone) and probably about 30
years ago?

I opened the starter up for you OOI:

https://ibb.co/NmtrVh6

Looks pretty similar to the circuit in the BigClive teardown.

Cheers, T i m


You really should sent that to Big Clive and ask him to do a tear down.

The must be a "tomorrows world" version he mentioned.

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On 10/06/2021 02:57, williamwright wrote:
On 09/06/2021 17:28, T i m wrote:

Ulitimately of course *all* the energy ends up as heat.


What, even the stuff coming out as visible light / UV light?


I suppose when it is absorbed it produces heat.

Bill

But it is not the end of the story heat itself radiates :-)
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Johnny B Good wrote:

On Wed, 09 Jun 2021 19:23:26 +0100, Chris J Dixon wrote:

The Other John wrote:

In our bathroom we have 2 halogen wall lights with G9 40W mains capsules
rated at 460L each. Looking at LED replacements I can only see 200L
capsules, so we would get less than half the illumination. Fortunately
I have 5 spares so they should out last me!


I have 6 x 12 V MR16 bulbs in my bathroom, fed via a Dimpull. So far
they haven't made a version of the Dimpull that can handle LEDs.

In the 16 years since they were installed (tempting providence) I don't
think I have changed any bulbs, of which I have a stock, but I am on my
3rd Dimpull. Its soft start is obviously good for bulb life, just a
shame its own design isn't better.

Extrapolating, I don't think I need to worry.


+1 (assuming those Dimpull units are some version of an "electronic
transformer")


Not quite. It is a dimmable pull-cord which feeds my electronic
transformers.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Greenbrook-DIMPULL-C-Dimmer-Switch-options/dp/B005KQTELU

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
@ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.


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On Mon, 14 Jun 2021 11:17:26 +0100, Chris J Dixon wrote:

Johnny B Good wrote:

On Wed, 09 Jun 2021 19:23:26 +0100, Chris J Dixon wrote:

The Other John wrote:

In our bathroom we have 2 halogen wall lights with G9 40W mains
capsules rated at 460L each. Looking at LED replacements I can only
see 200L capsules, so we would get less than half the illumination.
Fortunately I have 5 spares so they should out last me!

I have 6 x 12 V MR16 bulbs in my bathroom, fed via a Dimpull. So far
they haven't made a version of the Dimpull that can handle LEDs.

In the 16 years since they were installed (tempting providence) I
don't think I have changed any bulbs, of which I have a stock, but I
am on my 3rd Dimpull. Its soft start is obviously good for bulb life,
just a shame its own design isn't better.

Extrapolating, I don't think I need to worry.


+1 (assuming those Dimpull units are some version of an "electronic
transformer")


Not quite. It is a dimmable pull-cord which feeds my electronic
transformers.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Greenbrook-...ch-options/dp/

B005KQTELU


I doubt the Dimpull contributes much to the long lamp life. I suspect
the lamps would have lasted just as long using a basic on/off pull switch
due to the way those electronic transformers work (5A maximum current
limit taking the 'sting' out of the turn on surge - the real 'killer' of
tungsten filament lamps of any type).

--
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