On Tue, 3 Mar 2020 10:59:24 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


The strange thing was his demand the shop fix it rather than anything
himself. It was like he had no notion people ever fixed such things.

If he didn¢t, that was clearly down to his parents.

Your ending up in your senile age as a demented sleepless Usenet troll, was
that also down to your parents somehow, senile Rodent? Were they obnoxious
assholes like you?

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I used to
tinker with my Mini 50 years ago and mostly made a mess of it, so I
gave up.

They never came any simpler, than a mini.

Mini wasn't that simple a car to work on. Compared to say a Morris Minor.

--
*A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it uses up a thousand times more memory.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 03 Mar 2020 11:21:24 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I used to tinker with my Mini 50 years ago and mostly made a mess of
it, so I gave up.

They never came any simpler, than a mini.

Mini wasn't that simple a car to work on. Compared to say a Morris
Minor.

Apart from changing the brake master cylinder, as I recall.



--
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wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
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In article ,
Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 03 Mar 2020 11:21:24 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I used to tinker with my Mini 50 years ago and mostly made a mess of
it, so I gave up.

They never came any simpler, than a mini.

Mini wasn't that simple a car to work on. Compared to say a Morris
Minor.

Apart from changing the brake master cylinder, as I recall.

True. ;-)

--
*Many people quit looking for work when they find a job *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 03/03/2020 13:24, Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 03 Mar 2020 11:21:24 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I used to tinker with my Mini 50 years ago and mostly made a mess of
it, so I gave up.

They never came any simpler, than a mini.

Mini wasn't that simple a car to work on. Compared to say a Morris
Minor.

Apart from changing the brake master cylinder, as I recall.



easiest car of all was the herald/spitfire, until you had rust to deal
with...


--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

On 03/03/2020 13:24, Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 03 Mar 2020 11:21:24 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I used to tinker with my Mini 50 years ago and mostly made a mess of
it, so I gave up.

They never came any simpler, than a mini.

Mini wasn't that simple a car to work on. Compared to say a Morris
Minor.

Apart from changing the brake master cylinder, as I recall.



Getting the rear brake drums off old E93A fords needed
a hefty puller, so DIY brake shoe replacement wasn't
easy. Other cars might have been similar.

On Monday, 2 March 2020 17:31:52 UTC, simon mitchelmore wrote:
You are not alone and I, too, am worried for our future.

Its wider than the Millennials (although they are worst); in our road I appear to be the only one who lifts a car bonnet and definitely the only one who uses car ramps. I get looks of disbelief as dog walkers walk past and I'm under my car.

A friend, a GasSafe engineer, summed it up nicely saying in the past he'd explain what he'd done to fix their central heating but he doesn't bother now because many don't know what a boiler is, or want to know, frightening really.

Why would they want to know, they can't and shouldn't fix the problem themselevs.

I'm curuious as to what goes wrong with our PCs in the lab, but we have a contract with dell to keep them running and we have I.T services an outside
companyb that we pay to look after setting them up and keeping the software running. I just report a problem to them.
On average about 4 PCs a week are down.
One of them had a logic board problem to the engineer sent a replacement board that was faulty, then they replaced the whole PC which took them 3 weeks to sort out and this is on our 24 hour contract.



Teachers should replace 'Meja' studies with Meccano and how to bodge electrical appliances with insulating tape.

That's our job, but more an more students 3D print a box for their project that
could be bought for a fraction of the time and cost, but they don't know how to drill square or even round holes, but they can create it on a screen.
Mabe that's why we've just bought 2 new 3D printers for them.

Other than that they just want things ordered from amazon.

I have one final year student that wants two 555 timers, so has
ordered a tube of 40 at 87p each via RS.

He's been told that everything in the lab carosoul is free, where I have about 50 555s in a draw but I guess he's too lazy or stupid to bother.

On Tue, 03 Mar 2020 13:44:48 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 03 Mar 2020 11:21:24 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I used to tinker with my Mini 50 years ago and mostly made a mess
of it, so I gave up.

They never came any simpler, than a mini.

Mini wasn't that simple a car to work on. Compared to say a Morris
Minor.

Apart from changing the brake master cylinder, as I recall.

True. ;-)

I changed that for a 1952 Series I Land Rover. I did the front UJ seals
on that. The harder one was the clutch change - single handed.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Mini wasn't that simple a car to work on. Compared to say a Morris Minor.


Anybody remember checking the spark plugs on a 1500 Beetle? ISTR
adapting the tubular spanner by drilling an extra hole so the
tommy-bar would fit in at 45 degrees to the axis.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
@ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

"Pamela" wrote in message
...
On 23:00 2 Mar 2020, Theo wrote:

Tim Streater wrote:
That's good. A lesson that will have broader implications.

Largely, people don't, I suppose. Stuff's not made to be repaired.
Automated construction gets the cost down but makes it more complex to
fix.

Also worth bearing mind that technology progress trains people up to
keep pace with it. Maybe you started with a classic Land Rover and
learnt how to work on it, then moving through a few decades you learn
how new things (eg fuel injection) work. A modern Range Rover is a
complicated beast if you've never worked on a car before but it's much
easier to deal with as 'it's just like the previous gen but with a few
changes'.

The same applies to a lot of tech: if you've followed it through the
generations you can keep on top of the progress. And so give someone a
modern boiler and to them it's really just the same as the 1970s lump
they might be familiar with, only with some condensing stuff added, and
then electronic control instead of a mechnical timer, and a piezo
instead of a pilot light. Whereas if you show that to someone who has
never seen a boiler before it's a big pile of pipes and wires.

Theo

Some repair work is much less skilled than it used to be. The cost of
labour
compared to the cost of components has seen to that.

Back in the old days, a man would repair your telly or washing machine by
laboriously tracking down the fault and replacing the exact component
which
failed.

Nowadays, repairmen (if they take on the job at all) replace whole chunks
without the same level of understanding into what's gone wrong within the
unit they replace.

Mate of mine's #1 son used to repair TVs with a mate of his. They
shut up shop maybe a decade ago now and he drives big trucks now.

On Wed, 4 Mar 2020 02:54:38 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH senile asshole's troll****

02:54 again, you clinically insane trolling senile asshole from Oz?

--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing senile Rot:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID:

In article ,
Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 03 Mar 2020 13:44:48 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 03 Mar 2020 11:21:24 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I used to tinker with my Mini 50 years ago and mostly made a mess
of it, so I gave up.

They never came any simpler, than a mini.

Mini wasn't that simple a car to work on. Compared to say a Morris
Minor.

Apart from changing the brake master cylinder, as I recall.

True. ;-)

I changed that for a 1952 Series I Land Rover. I did the front UJ seals
on that. The harder one was the clutch change - single handed.

Very heavy box?

Easiest clutch change I ever did on a RWD was a Mk1 Escort. Finished
before elevenses. ;-)

But the Triumph 1300 FWD took the biscuit. All done from inside the car
without removing the box or engine.

--
*Remember: First you pillage, then you burn.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 02 Mar 2020 22:49:22 +0000 (GMT), Theo
wrote:

T i m wrote:
63 here with a 39 year old daughter so not sure if we are in the same
category.

I'm roughly the same age as your daughter, and a lot of that chimes.

;-)

I've been doing DIY (FSVO) since I was six.

Both daughter and I were naturally 'creative' when we were young. Give
either of us some Selotape, card or paper and we would make all sorts
of things. Same with Lego / Meccano etc.

Difference is I had nobody to teach me, so I've mostly learnt it myself.

That was mostly the same for me, for the things *I* wanted / needed to
do, but my Dad did at least (indirectly) show me how to use tools, by
watching him whilst helping him (no choice). ;-)

But whist the general tools thing was of use, he had little idea re
mechanics or electrics so I would do that round the family home.

Where did I learn that. I don't know, but with no Internet in those
days it can only have been from an inquisitive mind and the
opportunity (house with back garden, tools, workshop, tolerant
parents) to experiment. I was 'left / trusted' to take things to
pieces as long as they were still working properly (or better) when I
was finished. ;-)

When I took the engine out of a Fiat 850 at 15 years old it was just
more of the basic things I had learned from cycles and other machines
and the good old HBOL. ;-)

Being in Generation Rent rather hampers the DIY tendencies, but for a long
time I had an absentee landlord who never spent a penny and didn't care, so
I did it myself. The downside was it was never worth investing to do things
properly given you could always be kicked out at 2 months notice, or indeed
fined for changing things. So the DIY was usually minimalist stuff to
keep things going.

Daughter is in a similar position to you re what she can (or wants,
under the circumstances) in her rented flat. The landlords have
visited and are pleased with all she has done so far (and pay promptly
for any parts we use if we have to repair stuff (like I fitted a new
button panel to the washing machine the other day, because I could and
it was quicker and easier than getting him or the agent down).

We save him some money by fixing some stuff, he is more flexible /
generous re what we can do. ;-)


Having moved from 30-year-old to 10-year-old cars I don't do as much DIY as
I used to on that front, however it's always difficult when you're working
on the street and don't have anyone to help/tell you you've done it
right/make sure you aren't going to die.

I know what you mean Theo. ;-)

However, in many cases the use of a camera, referring to the manual
and being very diligent re compatibility of replacement parts (and the
parts themselves often only going on one way round etc) mean you are
generally ok.

So mostly avoid stuff on the
underneath (plus crawling around in the cold is no fun).

That was partly why we sold the (her) Mini and built the kitcar. ;-)

Previously I did a
carb rebuild and a full underseal, so I can be a slug if I want to be

I take my hat off to you re the undersealing. ;-)

I have some leaked Toyota dealer software to plug into the OBDII, which
makes fixing stuff on modern cars a lot easier.

Whilst I find that sort of diagnostics quite interesting (as I'm into
electronics and 'computers' as well etc), it's not quite the same as
getting your hands dirty, especially a successful engine related job.

Recently bought a house so lots to do in prospect, although not a lot of
free time to do it in

I only bought our house 40 years ago so haven't finished it yet. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On 02 Mar 2020 22:49:22 +0000 (GMT), Theo
wrote:

T i m wrote:
63 here with a 39 year old daughter so not sure if we are in the same
category.

I'm roughly the same age as your daughter, and a lot of that chimes.

;-)

I've been doing DIY (FSVO) since I was six.

Both daughter and I were naturally 'creative' when we were young. Give
either of us some Selotape, card or paper and we would make all sorts
of things. Same with Lego / Meccano etc.

Difference is I had nobody to teach me, so I've mostly learnt it myself.

That was mostly the same for me, for the things *I* wanted / needed to
do, but my Dad did at least (indirectly) show me how to use tools, by
watching him whilst helping him (no choice). ;-)

But whist the general tools thing was of use, he had little idea re
mechanics or electrics so I would do that round the family home.

Where did I learn that. I don't know,

I do, by trial and error and being able to try different
things and see what worked and what didn't.

One of the neighbours kids presented me with a box
full of bits from a bicycle epicyclical gearbox. I had only
a vague idea of how they worked but was able to
assemble it again just by using the wear marks.

but with no Internet in those days it can only have
been from an inquisitive mind and the opportunity
(house with back garden, tools, workshop, tolerant
parents) to experiment.

And a real interest in how things work.

I was 'left / trusted' to take things to
pieces as long as they were still working
properly (or better) when I was finished. ;-)

When I took the engine out of a Fiat 850 at 15 years old
it was just more of the basic things I had learned from
cycles and other machines and the good old HBOL. ;-)

Being in Generation Rent rather hampers the DIY tendencies, but for a long
time I had an absentee landlord who never spent a penny and didn't care,
so
I did it myself. The downside was it was never worth investing to do
things
properly given you could always be kicked out at 2 months notice, or
indeed
fined for changing things. So the DIY was usually minimalist stuff to
keep things going.

Daughter is in a similar position to you re what she can (or wants,
under the circumstances) in her rented flat. The landlords have
visited and are pleased with all she has done so far (and pay promptly
for any parts we use if we have to repair stuff (like I fitted a new
button panel to the washing machine the other day, because I could and
it was quicker and easier than getting him or the agent down).

We save him some money by fixing some stuff, he is more flexible /
generous re what we can do. ;-)


Having moved from 30-year-old to 10-year-old cars I don't do as much DIY
as
I used to on that front, however it's always difficult when you're working
on the street and don't have anyone to help/tell you you've done it
right/make sure you aren't going to die.

I know what you mean Theo. ;-)

However, in many cases the use of a camera, referring to the manual
and being very diligent re compatibility of replacement parts (and the
parts themselves often only going on one way round etc) mean you are
generally ok.

So mostly avoid stuff on the
underneath (plus crawling around in the cold is no fun).

That was partly why we sold the (her) Mini and built the kitcar. ;-)

Previously I did a
carb rebuild and a full underseal, so I can be a slug if I want to be

I take my hat off to you re the undersealing. ;-)

I have some leaked Toyota dealer software to plug into the OBDII, which
makes fixing stuff on modern cars a lot easier.

Whilst I find that sort of diagnostics quite interesting (as I'm into
electronics and 'computers' as well etc), it's not quite the same as
getting your hands dirty, especially a successful engine related job.

Recently bought a house so lots to do in prospect, although not a lot of
free time to do it in

I only bought our house 40 years ago so haven't finished it yet. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 03/03/2020 16:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


Easiest clutch change I ever did on a RWD was a Mk1 Escort. Finished
before elevenses. ;-)

But the Triumph 1300 FWD took the biscuit. All done from inside the car
without removing the box or engine.


Must go off and google how that was done. I remember the FWD
Vauxhall/Opel cars (Astra/Cavalier) that had a removable cover on the
bellhousing and you could pull the input shaft through the gearbox to
change the clutch without removing engine or box.

On Wed, 4 Mar 2020 04:28:06 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH senile asshole's lastest troll****

04:28??? AGAIN, you clinically insane senile idiot? LOL

--
about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID:

On 03/03/2020 16:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 03 Mar 2020 13:44:48 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 03 Mar 2020 11:21:24 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I used to tinker with my Mini 50 years ago and mostly made a mess
of it, so I gave up.

They never came any simpler, than a mini.

Mini wasn't that simple a car to work on. Compared to say a Morris
Minor.

Apart from changing the brake master cylinder, as I recall.

True. ;-)

I changed that for a 1952 Series I Land Rover. I did the front UJ seals
on that. The harder one was the clutch change - single handed.

Very heavy box?

Easiest clutch change I ever did on a RWD was a Mk1 Escort. Finished
before elevenses. ;-)

But the Triumph 1300 FWD took the biscuit. All done from inside the car
without removing the box or engine.


My MArk 1 Astra estate allowed for that.
After removing the front nearside wheel and the
inner wheelarch cover, a plate couldbe removed
from under the bell housing and three special clips
used to hold the pressure plate off. The splined
shaft could then be withdrawn through the wheelarch
and with the plugs removed you could turn the
pressure plate around and remove the bolts holding it
to the flywheel.

Pressure plate could then be dropped out below.
Probably similar to the way the Triumph allowed.

On 03/03/2020 15:51, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Mini wasn't that simple a car to work on. Compared to say a Morris Minor.


Anybody remember checking the spark plugs on a 1500 Beetle? ISTR
adapting the tubular spanner by drilling an extra hole so the
tommy-bar would fit in at 45 degrees to the axis.

Chris


VW Type 3 Fastback was even worse. Getting at the innermost
pair of plugs was so difficult, they were frequently
cross threaded.

On Tue, 03 Mar 2020 16:32:22 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 03 Mar 2020 13:44:48 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 03 Mar 2020 11:21:24 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I used to tinker with my Mini 50 years ago and mostly made a
mess of it, so I gave up.

They never came any simpler, than a mini.

Mini wasn't that simple a car to work on. Compared to say a Morris
Minor.

Apart from changing the brake master cylinder, as I recall.

True. ;-)

I changed that for a 1952 Series I Land Rover. I did the front UJ seals
on that. The harder one was the clutch change - single handed.

Very heavy box?

Very heavy. I didn't want to get into taking the transfer box off the
main box.

Easiest clutch change I ever did on a RWD was a Mk1 Escort. Finished
before elevenses. ;-)

But the Triumph 1300 FWD took the biscuit. All done from inside the car
without removing the box or engine.

I had to do this from inside. It was a model with no proper roof, just a
tilt. So after I'd sawed off all the rusted bolts and removed the floor
and gearbox cover, I wheeled the hoist in, and after some persuasion got
the boxes and bell housing to move backwards so I could lift them out of
the way. Refitting involved sitting on the cross member (seats removed
too of course) and pushing the bell housing with a foot each side.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 03/03/2020 11:21, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I used to
tinker with my Mini 50 years ago and mostly made a mess of it, so I
gave up.

They never came any simpler, than a mini.

Mini wasn't that simple a car to work on. Compared to say a Morris Minor.


I know I wrote my 1963 mini 850 off in 1970 and built it into another
body shell when I was 17....best thing that ever happened as being a
good mechanic has saved me a fortune over the last 50 years......OMG the
memories....rubber suspension units requiring a compressor stupid engine
above the gearbox with idling gear bearings that used to go....rotten
rear subframe ..engine tie bar rubber problems etc etc ,,,,

On 03/03/2020 18:47, Andrew wrote:
On 03/03/2020 15:51, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Mini wasn't that simple a car to work on. Compared to say a Morris
Minor.


Anybody remember checking the spark plugs on a 1500 Beetle? ISTR
adapting the tubular spanner by drilling an extra hole so the
tommy-bar would fit in at 45 degrees to the axis.

Chris


VW Type 3 Fastback was even worse. Getting at the innermost
pair of plugs was so difficult, they were frequently
cross threaded.

My uncle had one of those. Just about the worst car he ever had. He used
to joke that he did more miles with it tied to the back of my father's
car than he ever did driving it. It was significantly improved when he
and my father drilled out and re-tapped the holes and replaced the
cylinder head studs with bigger, stronger ones made by the apprentices
where my father worked.

For an encore, it burst into flames on the drive one evening.

SteveW

Pamela wrote:
Some repair work is much less skilled than it used to be. The cost of labour
compared to the cost of components has seen to that.

Back in the old days, a man would repair your telly or washing machine by
laboriously tracking down the fault and replacing the exact component which
failed.

Nowadays, repairmen (if they take on the job at all) replace whole chunks
without the same level of understanding into what's gone wrong within the
unit they replace.

That's true, although sometimes it can still be worth it. For instance if
you spill coffee on your Macbook it'll often be quoted by Apple as many
hundreds of pounds to replace the motherboard - and no different for a
third-party authorised repairer. However someone who knows what to do can
spot it's often a power or control chip that's affected and they can be
replaced for a fiver plus an hour's labour.

That's entirely because there's no economic source of replacement parts - if
the motherboard was $50 it wouldn't be worthwhile doing a component
level fix.

Theo

On Monday, 2 March 2020 17:31:52 UTC, simon mitchelmore wrote:

Its wider than the Millennials (although they are worst); in our road I appear to be the only one who lifts a car bonnet and definitely the only one who uses car ramps. I get looks of disbelief as dog walkers walk past and I'm under my car.

I swear that people have sometimes thought I've run myself over when they've walked by seen me under the car with my legs stuck out...

On Monday, 2 March 2020 17:51:59 UTC, T i m wrote:

When daughter was young I would encourage her to 'help' in whatever I
was doing and if she wanted to, learn how to do it herself. The first
example of that was her soldering up a Vellerman LED xmas tree project
when she was about 6. ;-)

I'm hoping for similar experiences with our daughter. She's only two-and-a-half so some way to go but she's already got her own tape measure and regularly walks round with my tool belt and goggles on, measuring things up. Will also pretend to cut things with a stanley knife too (to be honest though it is only pretending because she doesn't actually know how to push the blade out.... yet).

There's a downside to her observing me fixing things myself though - she really does seem to think everything can be fixed and so doesn't hesitate in absolutely destroying something knowing that 'dada fix it'...

On Wed, 4 Mar 2020 04:28:06 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

snip

Where did I learn that. I don't know,

I do, by trial and error and being able to try different
things and see what worked and what didn't.

One of the neighbours kids presented me with a box
full of bits from a bicycle epicyclical gearbox. I had only
a vague idea of how they worked but was able to
assemble it again just by using the wear marks.

I've just stripped, cleaned and re-assembled 3 x Sturmey Archer X-RD3
hubs (3 sp with drum brake) and about to do an AW (3).

As you say, with the right viewpoint the parts on a worn unit often
speak for themselves. Polished, worn, not worn, burred or stained /
rusty are all clues re what was previously touching what.

And springs / ratchet pawls need to go together in a way the pawls are
being loaded against their respective ratchets.

I love seeing individual, clean, functional mechanical parts emerging
from a black greasy blob and knowing it has all gone back together
nicely and with fresh lube [1] etc.

It's rewarding to then use that equipment for years and have it work
reliably and well.

Cheers, T i m

[1] On the early maintenance instructions it mentions reassembling and
'greasing' whereas other and possibly later instructions it recommends
against using grease and using 'Sturmey Archer Oil' (what else g)
instead.

On the hub with integrated drum brake I used a very light waterproof
grease (inc the ratchet pawls) and it works perfectly and I feel it's
less likely for 'lube' to migrate through from the gearbox to the
brake.

On a non braked hub that wouldn't matter so much and so I'm thinking a
light Hypoid gear oil might be best, something that might resist wear
on the gear faces and spindles. It also needs to be heavy enough to
stay coating all the main moving parts, whilst being light enough to
get in all the fine spaces but not run out if the bike is laid on its
side. The outer bearings / cones I would still grease, simply because
I believe it would stay put better, offer better weather protection
and therefore be better for preventing wear.

On Tue, 3 Mar 2020 15:26:15 -0800 (PST), Mathew Newton
wrote:

On Monday, 2 March 2020 17:51:59 UTC, T i m wrote:

When daughter was young I would encourage her to 'help' in whatever I
was doing and if she wanted to, learn how to do it herself. The first
example of that was her soldering up a Vellerman LED xmas tree project
when she was about 6. ;-)

I'm hoping for similar experiences with our daughter.

And why not. It pained me one day when a mates Mrs asked me 'if I send
our kids away if they show some interest when I am doing d-i-y and
such'? Apparently my mate did (mostly) and whilst there are times when
that is appropriate (when dealing with things that are very hot or
otherwise dangerous), in many cases if you do let them 'help' their
interest won't last long and you won't have pushed them away.

She's only two-and-a-half so some way to go but she's already got her own tape measure and regularly walks round with my tool belt and goggles on, measuring things up.

Aww bless. Ours had similar at that age (and hard hat and goggles,
probably a Fisher Price or Bob the Builder set) and it was funny to
watch her doing stuff and talking to herself about it. ;-)

Will also pretend to cut things with a stanley knife too (to be honest though it is only pretending because she doesn't actually know how to push the blade out.... yet).

Gulp

Daughter often reminds me of when I gave her the safety talk with her
first scalpel for craft use. It slipped somehow (just loose in my
hand, whilst I was parking it back in the cork) and I cut myself quite
badly. "Nice demo Dad". Ok, it wasn't quite the demo I had in mind but
she's never forgotten it. ;-)

There's a downside to her observing me fixing things myself though - she really does seem to think everything can be fixed and so doesn't hesitate in absolutely destroying something knowing that 'dada fix it'...

And of course he can (mostly, as long as Aunty doesn't look too
closely as that vase she gave you). ;-)

We tried to get our daughter(s) to have a go at most things, from
dancing to go-karting, from marital arts to art galleries and then
they might get a better idea of what might interest them in the
future, be it a hobby or career.

There is nothing more saddening that talking to a youth of today,
asking them if they are into any sports or hobbies and them just
shrugging. I guess even they get FIFA isn't a real sport (even if they
can earn money out of playing it).

I think the key to much of it is our time. I don't think they really
care what they are doing, as long as it's with us and it's involving.

If we were out walking I would 1) play tricks on her, like 'Look at
that lovely blue cow', just to hear her say 'No Daddy, that cows brown
....' or when they get a bit older, play opposites. First ask them the
opposite of left, up or hot and then slowly move on to 'misty' or
'furry' etc. ;-)

The other thing if you haven't already (and can take it), is music. A
basic electronic keyboard and play / learn a simple tune with them and
keep that going as often / long as you can. Not only will it be nice
for them to be able to play an instrument when they get older (guitar
round the campfire (or bong these days?)) but I believe it helps their
neural networks as well.

We aren't particularly 'clever' or academic but I'm not sure it was
just a coincidence or the music (recorder, piano, oboe) lessons that
in secondary school, our daughter won the 'Highest girl achiever in
her year and had the highest music qualifications in the school. She
was also invited to join NAGTY, partly off the back of her music but
she declined. "So, I can look forward to going away to play chess with
a bunch of geeks ...".

Her life, her choice and some of us prefer to do stuff with our hands,
or with people or animals. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 4 Mar 2020 04:28:06 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

snip

Where did I learn that. I don't know,

I do, by trial and error and being able to try different
things and see what worked and what didn't.

One of the neighbours kids presented me with a box
full of bits from a bicycle epicyclical gearbox. I had only
a vague idea of how they worked but was able to
assemble it again just by using the wear marks.

I've just stripped, cleaned and re-assembled 3 x Sturmey Archer X-RD3
hubs (3 sp with drum brake) and about to do an AW (3).

As you say, with the right viewpoint the parts on a worn unit often
speak for themselves. Polished, worn, not worn, burred or stained /
rusty are all clues re what was previously touching what.

And springs / ratchet pawls need to go together in a way the pawls are
being loaded against their respective ratchets.

I love seeing individual, clean, functional mechanical parts emerging
from a black greasy blob and knowing it has all gone back together
nicely and with fresh lube [1] etc.

Yeah, me too and it gave me a real buzz to be able to get it
going again with no spare bits left over without even a diagram
or anything and only a vague idea about how they worked.

It's rewarding to then use that equipment for years and have it work
reliably and well.

Cheers, T i m

[1] On the early maintenance instructions it mentions reassembling and
'greasing' whereas other and possibly later instructions it recommends
against using grease and using 'Sturmey Archer Oil' (what else g)
instead.

On the hub with integrated drum brake

That was definitely this one.

I used a very light waterproof
grease (inc the ratchet pawls) and it works perfectly and I feel it's
less likely for 'lube' to migrate through from the gearbox to the
brake.

Its been too long now since I did it to remember, 50 years now.
It worked fine for more than a decade or more until they moved
away so it must have been done right. I still have all those oils and
greases but havent used them much at all in the last few decades
with modern cars not needing any of that anymore and that being
the only hub gear I have ever had anything to do with maint wise.

Its also how I designed and built the house from scratch on a bare
block of land. The parents were getting a house architect designed
and built for them and I showed up in that town on the other side
of this country at the time, for a conference in my case. Unusual
post and beam construction which allows you to see how its put
together even when they had moved in. I kept walking around
looking that the detail and decided that it would be a pushover
to do one myself. Went home, grabbed a bare block of land
in what you lot call a new estate and spent quite a bit of time
in the long summer evenings wandering around looking at
the houses being built in that new estate. None of it is at all
complicated compared with cars and hub gearboxes.

Even had the local council tell the local builders to look at how
I had done the prep for the massive great concrete slab on the
ground, because that's how its sposed to be done. I just followed
the instructions that came with the free design that the reo suppliers
supplied when you sent them a copy of the house plan. The use
bar chairs to hold the mesh as the right level when the concrete
is poured. The builders don't bother, they use a long T shaped
tool with a hook on the end and pull the mesh up as the concrete
is poured. The council inspectors hate that because there is no way
to check that the reo is at the right level in the concrete.

On a non braked hub that wouldn't matter so much and so I'm thinking a
light Hypoid gear oil might be best, something that might resist wear
on the gear faces and spindles. It also needs to be heavy enough to
stay coating all the main moving parts, whilst being light enough to
get in all the fine spaces but not run out if the bike is laid on its
side. The outer bearings / cones I would still grease, simply because
I believe it would stay put better, offer better weather protection
and therefore be better for preventing wear.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 3 Mar 2020 15:26:15 -0800 (PST), Mathew Newton
wrote:

On Monday, 2 March 2020 17:51:59 UTC, T i m wrote:

When daughter was young I would encourage her to 'help' in whatever I
was doing and if she wanted to, learn how to do it herself. The first
example of that was her soldering up a Vellerman LED xmas tree project
when she was about 6. ;-)

I'm hoping for similar experiences with our daughter.

And why not. It pained me one day when a mates Mrs asked me 'if I send
our kids away if they show some interest when I am doing d-i-y and
such'? Apparently my mate did (mostly) and whilst there are times when
that is appropriate (when dealing with things that are very hot or
otherwise dangerous), in many cases if you do let them 'help' their
interest won't last long and you won't have pushed them away.

I didn't realise how fascinated by fire kids are.

I was silly enough to let them burn the small tree
I had to cut down because it would have been
in the middle of the house. The kids loved it,
but scrap wood was a bit thin on the ground
after that given that I only use wood when I
have to. I much prefer steel even for furniture.

When I had to stain the massive great oregon
hundreds of feet of barge boards, I set them
up on the oil drums I used for scaffolding when
doing the block work and let the kids have at
them. Some of their parent werent too impressed
that their kids had turned into little dark brown kids.

She's only two-and-a-half so some way to go but she's already got her own
tape measure and regularly walks round with my tool belt and goggles on,
measuring things up.

Aww bless. Ours had similar at that age (and hard hat and goggles,
probably a Fisher Price or Bob the Builder set) and it was funny to
watch her doing stuff and talking to herself about it. ;-)

Will also pretend to cut things with a stanley knife too (to be honest
though it is only pretending because she doesn't actually know how to push
the blade out.... yet).

Gulp

Daughter often reminds me of when I gave her the safety talk with her
first scalpel for craft use. It slipped somehow (just loose in my
hand, whilst I was parking it back in the cork) and I cut myself quite
badly. "Nice demo Dad". Ok, it wasn't quite the demo I had in mind but
she's never forgotten it. ;-)

There's a downside to her observing me fixing things myself though - she
really does seem to think everything can be fixed and so doesn't hesitate
in absolutely destroying something knowing that 'dada fix it'...

And of course he can (mostly, as long as Aunty doesn't look too
closely as that vase she gave you). ;-)

We tried to get our daughter(s) to have a go at most things, from
dancing to go-karting, from marital arts to art galleries and then
they might get a better idea of what might interest them in the
future, be it a hobby or career.

There is nothing more saddening that talking to a youth of today,
asking them if they are into any sports or hobbies and them just
shrugging. I guess even they get FIFA isn't a real sport (even if they
can earn money out of playing it).

Most of ours are into footy of one description or
other and and about half into cricket in summer.

I think the key to much of it is our time. I don't think they really
care what they are doing, as long as it's with us and it's involving.

If we were out walking I would 1) play tricks on her, like 'Look at
that lovely blue cow', just to hear her say 'No Daddy, that cows brown
...' or when they get a bit older, play opposites. First ask them the
opposite of left, up or hot and then slowly move on to 'misty' or
'furry' etc. ;-)

The other thing if you haven't already (and can take it), is music. A
basic electronic keyboard and play / learn a simple tune with them and
keep that going as often / long as you can. Not only will it be nice
for them to be able to play an instrument when they get older (guitar
round the campfire (or bong these days?)) but I believe it helps their
neural networks as well.

My grand nephew is into drums, bit hard on the parents tho.

He also loves to hoon around on the big ride on lawn mower
on their 10 acre block or whatever it is. He's just started high
school this year.

We aren't particularly 'clever' or academic but I'm not sure it was
just a coincidence or the music (recorder, piano, oboe) lessons that
in secondary school, our daughter won the 'Highest girl achiever in
her year and had the highest music qualifications in the school. She
was also invited to join NAGTY, partly off the back of her music but
she declined. "So, I can look forward to going away to play chess with
a bunch of geeks ...".

Her life, her choice and some of us prefer to do stuff with our hands,
or with people or animals. ;-)

On Tuesday, 3 March 2020 23:26:18 UTC, Mathew Newton wrote:
I'm hoping for similar experiences with our daughter. She's only two-and-a-half
so some way to go but she's already got her own tape measure and regularly
walks round with my tool belt and goggles on, measuring things up.

I did that.

I marked up the living room walls for a new bookcase with my pencil :-)

Owain

On Wed, 4 Mar 2020 12:41:30 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH troll****

12:41??? And you've been up and trolling since 02:33 last night, you
CLINICALLY INSANE abnormal senile sow!


--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On Wed, 4 Mar 2020 13:01:57 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH more of the senile idiot's troll****

13:01 already? And you STILL can't go to bed, abnormal senile clown? LOL

--
The Natural Philosopher about senile Rodent:
"Rod speed is not a Brexiteer. He is an Australian troll and arsehole."
Message-ID:

Steve Walker wrote:

On 03/03/2020 18:47, Andrew wrote:
On 03/03/2020 15:51, Chris J Dixon wrote:

Anybody remember checking the spark plugs on a 1500 Beetle? ISTR
adapting the tubular spanner by drilling an extra hole so the
tommy-bar would fit in at 45 degrees to the axis.

VW Type 3 Fastback was even worse. Getting at the innermost
pair of plugs was so difficult, they were frequently
cross threaded.

My uncle had one of those. Just about the worst car he ever had. He used
to joke that he did more miles with it tied to the back of my father's
car than he ever did driving it. It was significantly improved when he
and my father drilled out and re-tapped the holes and replaced the
cylinder head studs with bigger, stronger ones made by the apprentices
where my father worked.

For an encore, it burst into flames on the drive one evening.

The Beetle was my first car. I picked it up at trade. It had been
imported from South Africa, and was a bit behind the European
model changes. IIRC the greasing interval was 1500 miles. It was
OK as a first car, but not after driving anything else. Motorway
trips in a cross wind were very interesting, as the steering,
even with new king pins, was incredibly soggy.

M62 eastbound was fun. If I didn't get a good run at it I had to
change down before the summit.

Then there was the heater designed so that, if it was going to
stick, it would do so fully on. As it was a waterless system, the
air could get pretty hot, and a passenger once had a pair of
shoes ruined. It was just some flaps and a lever, but once it had
seized you had to get underneath to free it off.

It had an interesting screenwash system. The water reservoir was
connected to, and pressurised by, the spare wheel. You simply
pushed the control and water squirted.

Only when it eventually stopped working did it become clear that
there was a pressure limiter to make sure that you didn't run the
tyre flat.

My only success was once getting an exhaust fitted free - almost
all the free fit exhaust firms wouldn't touch it without an extra
charge. They took all day and had to change a stud.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
@ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

On 03/03/2020 20:03, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 03/03/2020 11:21, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I used to
tinker with my Mini 50 years ago and mostly made a mess of it, so I
gave up.

They never came any simpler, than a mini.

Mini wasn't that simple a car to work on. Compared to say a Morris Minor.


I know I wrote my 1963 mini 850 off in 1970 and built it into another
body shell when I was 17....best thing that ever happened as being a
good mechanic has saved me a fortune over the last 50 years......OMG the
memories....rubber suspension units requiring a compressor stupid engine
above the gearbox with idling gear bearings that used to go....rotten
rear subframe ..engine tie bar rubber problems etc etc ,,,,

and other than two wummin drivers that got me never had another accident ...

On Wed, 4 Mar 2020 12:41:30 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

snip

I love seeing individual, clean, functional mechanical parts emerging
from a black greasy blob and knowing it has all gone back together
nicely and with fresh lube [1] etc.

Yeah, me too and it gave me a real buzz to be able to get it
going again with no spare bits left over

That's key or just the cherry on the cake (depending on what it is).

That and not enough bits. I've just repaired a little toy dog for my
niece. You press one of two buttons on a mock recoiling lead and it
either walks (of sorts) or barks and wags it's tail. It worked when
they bought it at a charity sale and she was upset when it 'died'.
'Maybe uncle Timmy could fix it?' Well, after testing all I could get
at from the outside, I had to skin it to get to it's guts and it
turned out to be a invisibly corroded battery terminal spring. In the
process of taking everything to bits it appears one of the controller
buttons has dropped out (unnoticed at the time) and we seem to be one
screw missing. Hopefully I can 3D print or turn a replacement button
and the 'missing' screw might be that I've used on the dog itself that
may not have been filled previously.

without even a diagram
or anything and only a vague idea about how they worked.

If you have 'the eye' and the thing used sufficiently to offer some
wear marks, you can often re-assemble things you haven't de-assembled,
even (as you say) without the diagrams, assuming it's not bizarrely
complicated.

It's like with flat-pack furniture. I tend to just glance at the
instructions in case there are things that need doing in a specific
order and to save time having to unassembled any of it. When there
aren't any instructions, you have to work it out yourself and maybe
just don't do any gluing until you see the bigger picture.

snip

I used a very light waterproof
grease (inc the ratchet pawls) and it works perfectly and I feel it's
less likely for 'lube' to migrate through from the gearbox to the
brake.

Its been too long now since I did it to remember, 50 years now.

I just picked up a second (at least) hand folding cycle, a Raleigh
Stowaway (often referred to as the Raleigh 20) as I have an issue with
one foot (hopefully temporarily) and still want to get out with the
Mrs walking the dog etc.

For now I'm going to have to use it 'as-is' (I might just put a longer
seatpost in it) but I'm really looking forward to going over it and
making sure everything is right. According to Wiki it would be between
36 and 49 years old and makes me wonder how many things made today
would still be going after that sort of time?

It worked fine for more than a decade or more until they moved
away so it must have been done right.

I'd say.

I still have all those oils and
greases but havent used them much at all in the last few decades
with modern cars not needing any of that anymore and that being
the only hub gear I have ever had anything to do with maint wise.

Quite.

Its also how I designed and built the house from scratch on a bare
block of land. The parents were getting a house architect designed
and built for them and I showed up in that town on the other side
of this country at the time, for a conference in my case. Unusual
post and beam construction which allows you to see how its put
together even when they had moved in.

Like all those log cabin type building they show you on the TV
programs.

I kept walking around
looking that the detail and decided that it would be a pushover
to do one myself. Went home, grabbed a bare block of land
in what you lot call a new estate and spent quite a bit of time
in the long summer evenings wandering around looking at
the houses being built in that new estate.

Out of cardboard it seems these days. ;-(

None of it is at all
complicated compared with cars and hub gearboxes.

True ... in standard house builds. Some of these real fancy homes with
glass fronts, cantilever beams and minimalist support or the floating
ones aren't quite so.

Even had the local council tell the local builders to look at how
I had done the prep for the massive great concrete slab on the
ground, because that's how its sposed to be done. I just followed
the instructions that came with the free design that the reo suppliers
supplied when you sent them a copy of the house plan. The use
bar chairs to hold the mesh as the right level when the concrete
is poured. The builders don't bother, they use a long T shaped
tool with a hook on the end and pull the mesh up as the concrete
is poured. The council inspectors hate that because there is no way
to check that the reo is at the right level in the concrete.

Quite. Did you mix / pour the concrete yourself or was it simply too
big and get a Ready-Mix load in? (Probably called 'Crete-O' over
there). ;-)

I was similar when we built the kitcar. I'd never built one before but
had done all the jobs I was going to have to do over many vehicles
over the years and so found it quite straightforward. 3 months of
evenings and weekends and in the open in our back yard. That was over
30 years ago now and it's still running.

Cheers, T i m

T i m wrote:

Like all those log cabin type building they show you on the TV
programs.

There seem to be some great skills there, things like cutting the
special angled joints with a chain saw, and a lot of pretty
unsafe behaviour.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
@ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

On Wed, 04 Mar 2020 11:18:36 +0000, Chris J Dixon
wrote:

T i m wrote:

Like all those log cabin type building they show you on the TV
programs.

There seem to be some great skills there, things like cutting the
special angled joints with a chain saw, and a lot of pretty
unsafe behaviour.

Agreed. Also the use of what looks like a 1" diameter peg to hold an
18" diameter beam in place? I know it's not actually taking any
'weight' as such but if anything was to move, I'm not sure it would
hold it or just shear off?

And the new builders are one thing as they often pre-fab the structure
in their big barn, it's the guys that take a 100 year old outbuilding
to pieces and rebuild it somewhere else that get my respect (ignoring
how they sometimes take them to pieces).

Cheers, T i m

On 03/03/2020 21:26, Steve Walker wrote:
On 03/03/2020 18:47, Andrew wrote:
On 03/03/2020 15:51, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Mini wasn't that simple a car to work on. Compared to say a Morris
Minor.


Anybody remember checking the spark plugs on a 1500 Beetle? ISTR
adapting the tubular spanner by drilling an extra hole so the
tommy-bar would fit in at 45 degrees to the axis.

Chris


VW Type 3 Fastback was even worse. Getting at the innermost
pair of plugs was so difficult, they were frequently
cross threaded.

My uncle had one of those. Just about the worst car he ever had. He used
to joke that he did more miles with it tied to the back of my father's
car than he ever did driving it. It was significantly improved when he
and my father drilled out and re-tapped the holes and replaced the
cylinder head studs with bigger, stronger ones made by the apprentices
where my father worked.

For an encore, it burst into flames on the drive one evening.

SteveW

Mine literally backfired one late foggy autumn evening as I tried
to start it at the local station after coming home from London.

Enormous bang and huge cloud of sooty smoke with my headlights
peering through. All the local dogs started barking in unison.
It literally blew the main silencer and one of the heat
exchangers to bits.

I drove through the village and up the 15% incline to where I live
sounding like one of those drag-racing things :-)

On 04/03/2020 08:14, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Motorway
trips in a cross wind were very interesting, as the steering,
even with new king pins, was incredibly soggy.

M62 eastbound was fun. If I didn't get a good run at it I had to
change down before the summit.

Then there was the heater designed so that, if it was going to
stick, it would do so fully on. As it was a waterless system, the
air could get pretty hot, and a passenger once had a pair of
shoes ruined. It was just some flaps and a lever, but once it had
seized you had to get underneath to free it off.

Uncle had a VW combi campervan and strong side winds would
easily move it from fast line to hard shoulder without
turning the steering wheel at all.

Heating came from huge heat exchangers on the exhaust ports
on each bank. If they corroded you got exhaust gases inside
the vehicle !.

On 03/03/2020 20:03, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 03/03/2020 11:21, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I used to
tinker with my Mini 50 years ago and mostly made a mess of it, so I
gave up.

They never came any simpler, than a mini.

Mini wasn't that simple a car to work on. Compared to say a Morris Minor.


I know I wrote my 1963 mini 850 off in 1970 and built it into another
body shell when I was 17....best thing that ever happened as being a
good mechanic has saved me a fortune over the last 50 years......OMG the
memories....rubber suspension units requiring a compressor stupid engine
above the gearbox with idling gear bearings that used to go....rotten
rear subframe ..engine tie bar rubber problems etc etc ,,,,

ENORMOUS socket set needed to work on the lower front
ball joints, which to be fair could be unscrewed and
fixed with a repair kit and new shims.

Most people used a geordie spanner to tighten them.

You forgot, flat battery, and being in the boot meant
a massive voltage drop. Mind you, better than a Hillman
imp with a metal petrol tank in front of you in the 'boot'.

On 04/03/2020 15:27, Andrew wrote:
On 04/03/2020 08:14, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Motorway
trips in a cross wind were very interesting, as the steering,
even with new king pins, was incredibly soggy.

M62 eastbound was fun. If I didn't get a good run at it I had to
change down before the summit.

Then there was the heater designed so that, if it was going to
stick, it would do so fully on. As it was a waterless system, the
air could get pretty hot, and a passenger once had a pair of
shoes ruined. It was just some flaps and a lever, but once it had
seized you had to get underneath to free it off.

Uncle had a VW combi campervan and strong side winds would
easily move it from fast line to hard shoulder without
turning the steering wheel at all.

the usual thing was to load up the front 'boot' with sandbags (beetle) -
or pick up a hitch hiker

Heating came from huge heat exchangers on the exhaust ports
on each bank. If they corroded you got exhaust gases inside
the vehicle !.
Or if they got corroded you got no heat at all

--
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to
rule.
€“ H. L. Mencken, American journalist, 1880-1956