I'm provoked to post this after the thread about whether people DIY or
not anymore.
I've been wondering for some time, in particular WRT my own kids (both
men now in their 20s) if their lives have been so much easier that
necessity has *not* bred any variant of invention.
They are so needy and incapable that I had occasionally wondered if they
were on some spectrum or other but I speak to other people my age and it
sounds par.

I've a tome of anecdotes but i'll stick to a couple.

We had* 2 bagless vacuum cleaners at work (me, son, apprentice), one
upstairs, one down. I noted one day that both were downstairs, so I
asked why. The response was that one of them wasn't sucking.
Later I noted that neither had been used in a while, the place was
untidy, apparently now neither were sucking.
So I went off one one about how i'm not the ####ing caretaker, vacuum
cleaners aren't ####ing rocket science and demanded they check for
blockages and if necessary clean the filters.
Neither knew that vacuum cleaners had filters (why would they) so on my
instruction the apprentice washed the filters and put them back in.
He put them in WET and proceeded to use it.

*One has since died, hardly surprising.

Recently, a machine at work is leaking polish on the floor.
I'm ignoring the problem to see what the son will do about it.
Then I prompt.. "why is it leaking", "where is it leaking from" etc. and
finally have to intervene when the best he can come up is to mop up the
leakage from the floor with a face like an injured puppy.
(It's about 30 quid per gallon)

This isn't merely a rant, i'm genuinely fearful for the future.

On 02/03/2020 16:44, R D S wrote:
I'm provoked to post this after the thread about whether people DIY or
not anymore.
I've been wondering for some time, in particular WRT my own kids (both
men now in their 20s) if their lives have been so much easier that
necessity has *not* bred any variant of invention.
They are so needy and incapable that I had occasionally wondered if they
were on some spectrum or other but I speak to other people my age and it
sounds par.

I've a tome of anecdotes but i'll stick to a couple.

We had* 2 bagless vacuum cleaners at work (me, son, apprentice), one
upstairs, one down. I noted one day that both were downstairs, so I
asked why. The response was that one of them wasn't sucking.
Later I noted that neither had been used in a while, the place was
untidy, apparently now neither were sucking.
So I went off one one about how i'm not the ####ing caretaker, vacuum
cleaners aren't ####ing rocket science and demanded they check for
blockages and if necessary clean the filters.
Neither knew that vacuum cleaners had filters (why would they) so on my
instruction the apprentice washed the filters and put them back in.
He put them in WET and proceeded to use it.

*One has since died, hardly surprising.

Recently, a machine at work is leaking polish on the floor.
I'm ignoring the problem to see what the son will do about it.
Then I prompt.. "why is it leaking", "where is it leaking from" etc. and
finally have to intervene when the best he can come up is to mop up the
leakage from the floor with a face like an injured puppy.
(It's about 30 quid per gallon)

This isn't merely a rant, i'm genuinely fearful for the future.

Mine are all cyclists (even the girl) and that keeps them practical.

Oh here you should see the queue when Dr Bike sessions visit the town
centre, What are the problems? Brakes, chain comes off etc. Blimey.
Brian

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"newshound" wrote in message
news
On 02/03/2020 16:44, R D S wrote:
I'm provoked to post this after the thread about whether people DIY or
not anymore.
I've been wondering for some time, in particular WRT my own kids (both
men now in their 20s) if their lives have been so much easier that
necessity has *not* bred any variant of invention.
They are so needy and incapable that I had occasionally wondered if they
were on some spectrum or other but I speak to other people my age and it
sounds par.

I've a tome of anecdotes but i'll stick to a couple.

We had* 2 bagless vacuum cleaners at work (me, son, apprentice), one
upstairs, one down. I noted one day that both were downstairs, so I asked
why. The response was that one of them wasn't sucking.
Later I noted that neither had been used in a while, the place was
untidy, apparently now neither were sucking.
So I went off one one about how i'm not the ####ing caretaker, vacuum
cleaners aren't ####ing rocket science and demanded they check for
blockages and if necessary clean the filters.
Neither knew that vacuum cleaners had filters (why would they) so on my
instruction the apprentice washed the filters and put them back in.
He put them in WET and proceeded to use it.

*One has since died, hardly surprising.

Recently, a machine at work is leaking polish on the floor.
I'm ignoring the problem to see what the son will do about it.
Then I prompt.. "why is it leaking", "where is it leaking from" etc. and
finally have to intervene when the best he can come up is to mop up the
leakage from the floor with a face like an injured puppy.
(It's about 30 quid per gallon)

This isn't merely a rant, i'm genuinely fearful for the future.

Mine are all cyclists (even the girl) and that keeps them practical.

You are not alone and I, too, am worried for our future.

Its wider than the Millennials (although they are worst); in our road I appear to be the only one who lifts a car bonnet and definitely the only one who uses car ramps. I get looks of disbelief as dog walkers walk past and I'm under my car.

A friend, a GasSafe engineer, summed it up nicely saying in the past he'd explain what he'd done to fix their central heating but he doesn't bother now because many don't know what a boiler is, or want to know, frightening really.

Teachers should replace 'Meja' studies with Meccano and how to bodge electrical appliances with insulating tape.

On 02/03/2020 17:31, simon mitchelmore wrote:

Teachers should replace 'Meja' studies with Meccano and how to bodge electrical appliances with insulating tape.


There's something of a catchphrase in our place,
"Hey Dad, good if [broken appliance/machine] was working wouldn't it?"

"Fix it then", I'll suggest, to be told, "I don't know how", like *I*
was somehow born with all the answers. I feel like I was a better
influence as they were growing up but people of that age are all just
sort of broken.

In article ,
R D S wrote:
On 02/03/2020 17:31, simon mitchelmore wrote:

Teachers should replace 'Meja' studies with Meccano and how to bodge electrical appliances with insulating tape.


There's something of a catchphrase in our place,
"Hey Dad, good if [broken appliance/machine] was working wouldn't it?"

"Fix it then", I'll suggest, to be told, "I don't know how", like *I*
was somehow born with all the answers. I feel like I was a better
influence as they were growing up but people of that age are all just
sort of broken.

my 4 year old grandson used to say "Grandpa will mend it". He doesn't need
to any more since he now has a step-dad who it more than capable.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

"R D S" wrote in message
...
On 02/03/2020 17:31, simon mitchelmore wrote:

Teachers should replace 'Meja' studies with Meccano and how to bodge
electrical appliances with insulating tape.


There's something of a catchphrase in our place,
"Hey Dad, good if [broken appliance/machine] was working wouldn't it?"

"Fix it then", I'll suggest, to be told, "I don't know how", like *I* was
somehow born with all the answers. I feel like I was a better influence as
they were growing up but people of that age are all just sort of broken.

No they arent. Some of the ones I know are quite capable of doing
what you did at their age.

On Tue, 3 Mar 2020 06:16:43 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH senile cretin's latest troll****

06:16??? LOL IOW, you are SO miserable you can't even hide what's the matter
with you, you disgusting trolling piece of senile ****! LOL

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

I built a door closer using left over meccano after I lost my sight.
Everyone thinks its great, but why don't they understand its simple
principle? I think Meccano was a teaching aid as indeed was a kit called
Radionics, both taught me a lot and made it fun.
No teacher involved either.
Brian

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Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"R D S" wrote in message
...
On 02/03/2020 17:31, simon mitchelmore wrote:

Teachers should replace 'Meja' studies with Meccano and how to bodge
electrical appliances with insulating tape.


There's something of a catchphrase in our place,
"Hey Dad, good if [broken appliance/machine] was working wouldn't it?"

"Fix it then", I'll suggest, to be told, "I don't know how", like *I* was
somehow born with all the answers. I feel like I was a better influence
as they were growing up but people of that age are all just sort of
broken.

No they arent. Some of the ones I know are quite capable of doing
what you did at their age.

Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote

I built a door closer using left over meccano after I lost my sight.
Everyone thinks its great, but why don't they understand its simple
principle?

Few have the ability to do that.

I think Meccano was a teaching aid as indeed was a kit called Radionics,
both taught me a lot and made it fun.
No teacher involved either.

Yeah, some don’t need a teacher for anything.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"R D S" wrote in message
...
On 02/03/2020 17:31, simon mitchelmore wrote:

Teachers should replace 'Meja' studies with Meccano and how to bodge
electrical appliances with insulating tape.


There's something of a catchphrase in our place,
"Hey Dad, good if [broken appliance/machine] was working wouldn't it?"

"Fix it then", I'll suggest, to be told, "I don't know how", like *I*
was somehow born with all the answers. I feel like I was a better
influence as they were growing up but people of that age are all just
sort of broken.

No they arent. Some of the ones I know are quite capable of doing
what you did at their age.

Did they ever have practical hobbies? I flew and built model planes and
boats.
I'm sure you do your best learning when its fun, and I was always inside
electrical stuff. As long as you always keep one hand in your pocket you
will just get a moments pain.
Brian

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The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"R D S" wrote in message
...
On 02/03/2020 17:31, simon mitchelmore wrote:

Teachers should replace 'Meja' studies with Meccano and how to bodge
electrical appliances with insulating tape.


There's something of a catchphrase in our place,
"Hey Dad, good if [broken appliance/machine] was working wouldn't it?"

"Fix it then", I'll suggest, to be told, "I don't know how", like *I* was
somehow born with all the answers. I feel like I was a better influence as
they were growing up but people of that age are all just sort of broken.

simon mitchelmore wrote

You are not alone and I, too, am worried for our future.

I'm not.

Its wider than the Millennials (although they are worst);
in our road I appear to be the only one who lifts a car
bonnet and definitely the only one who uses car ramps.

I'm not. At least 5 in my street.

I get looks of disbelief as dog walkers walk past and I'm under my car.

I dont. The most I get is a few I know ask if I need a hand.

And does it really matter if most pay someone to do the minimal
that needs doing today, just change the oil and filter etc ?

Sure, some will just drive it into the ground and kill it when
they dont even realise that anything needs to be done but
that hardly the end of civilisation as we know it.

A friend, a GasSafe engineer, summed it up nicely saying
in the past he'd explain what he'd done to fix their central
heating but he doesn't bother now because many don't
know what a boiler is, or want to know, frightening really.

Whats frightening about choosing to pay someone
to fix it if it stops heating the house etc ?

Teachers should replace 'Meja' studies with Meccano and
how to bodge electrical appliances with insulating tape.

Makes more sense to just buy a new appliance now.
While I can fix anything, it makes no sense toasters etc.

On Tue, 3 Mar 2020 06:14:26 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH troll****

06:14??? LOL EVERY night the same story with you, eh, you clinically insane
sleepless senile asshole from Oz? LOL

--
about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID:

Yes my old Rogers Amp is still working due to me bodging the volume mounted
mains switch with tape and evo stick.
Brian

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"simon mitchelmore" wrote in message
...
You are not alone and I, too, am worried for our future.

Its wider than the Millennials (although they are worst); in our road I
appear to be the only one who lifts a car bonnet and definitely the only
one who uses car ramps. I get looks of disbelief as dog walkers walk past
and I'm under my car.

A friend, a GasSafe engineer, summed it up nicely saying in the past he'd
explain what he'd done to fix their central heating but he doesn't bother
now because many don't know what a boiler is, or want to know, frightening
really.

Teachers should replace 'Meja' studies with Meccano and how to bodge
electrical appliances with insulating tape.

On Monday, 2 March 2020 17:31:52 UTC, simon mitchelmore wrote:
You are not alone and I, too, am worried for our future.

Its wider than the Millennials (although they are worst); in our road I appear to be the only one who lifts a car bonnet and definitely the only one who uses car ramps. I get looks of disbelief as dog walkers walk past and I'm under my car.

A friend, a GasSafe engineer, summed it up nicely saying in the past he'd explain what he'd done to fix their central heating but he doesn't bother now because many don't know what a boiler is, or want to know, frightening really.

Why would they want to know, they can't and shouldn't fix the problem themselevs.

I'm curuious as to what goes wrong with our PCs in the lab, but we have a contract with dell to keep them running and we have I.T services an outside
companyb that we pay to look after setting them up and keeping the software running. I just report a problem to them.
On average about 4 PCs a week are down.
One of them had a logic board problem to the engineer sent a replacement board that was faulty, then they replaced the whole PC which took them 3 weeks to sort out and this is on our 24 hour contract.



Teachers should replace 'Meja' studies with Meccano and how to bodge electrical appliances with insulating tape.

That's our job, but more an more students 3D print a box for their project that
could be bought for a fraction of the time and cost, but they don't know how to drill square or even round holes, but they can create it on a screen.
Mabe that's why we've just bought 2 new 3D printers for them.

Other than that they just want things ordered from amazon.

I have one final year student that wants two 555 timers, so has
ordered a tube of 40 at 87p each via RS.

He's been told that everything in the lab carosoul is free, where I have about 50 555s in a draw but I guess he's too lazy or stupid to bother.

On Monday, 2 March 2020 17:31:52 UTC, simon mitchelmore wrote:

Its wider than the Millennials (although they are worst); in our road I appear to be the only one who lifts a car bonnet and definitely the only one who uses car ramps. I get looks of disbelief as dog walkers walk past and I'm under my car.

I swear that people have sometimes thought I've run myself over when they've walked by seen me under the car with my legs stuck out...

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
I'd say cars are too complex to do much of that any more. I used to
tinker with my Mini 50 years ago and mostly made a mess of it, so I
gave up. Can you even buy workshop manuals for today's cars? Don't you
need a computer to check everything? The garage will have one but
would the right kit be available to an end-user?

It suits many to think they need a computer to work on a car these days.
So are happy to pay a garage to fit new brakes etc that if anything is
easier than years ago.

--
*Honk if you love peace and quiet.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Monday, 2 March 2020 19:04:56 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:

I'd say cars are too complex to do much of that any more. I used to

not a bit

tinker with my Mini 50 years ago and mostly made a mess of it, so I
gave up. Can you even buy workshop manuals for today's cars?

yes

Don't you
need a computer to check everything? The garage will have one but
would the right kit be available to an end-user?

OBDII readers are cheap

It suits many to think they need a computer to work on a car these days.
So are happy to pay a garage to fit new brakes etc that if anything is
easier than years ago.

Cars have gotten a lot faster to assemble, making them cheaper to buy & quicker to service/repair in many respects - not all. Even with engine stuff when it needs OBDII reading, having an almost diagnosis as easy as plugging something in really helps.


NT

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article ,
simon mitchelmore wrote:

You are not alone and I, too, am worried for our future.

Its wider than the Millennials (although they are worst); in our road I
appear
to be the only one who lifts a car bonnet and definitely the only one who
uses
car ramps. I get looks of disbelief as dog walkers walk past and I'm under
my
car.

I'd say cars are too complex to do much of that any more.

You'd be wrong. Its actually much easier now when
the OBD2 tells you which sensor has failed and the
maintenance manual tells you how to change it.

I used to
tinker with my Mini 50 years ago and mostly made a mess of it, so I
gave up. Can you even buy workshop manuals for today's cars?

Yep, and get them for free too.

Don't you
need a computer to check everything?

Nope, just a dirt cheap OBD2 thing now.

The garage will have one but
would the right kit be available to an end-user?

Yep, for peanuts too.

A friend, a GasSafe engineer, summed it up nicely saying in the past he'd
explain what he'd done to fix their central heating but he doesn't bother
now
because many don't know what a boiler is, or want to know, frightening
really.

Teachers should replace 'Meja' studies with Meccano and how to bodge
electrical appliances with insulating tape.

Certainly Meccano, but in my case it was more my brother (then in the
Navy) bringing back some surplus kit like soldering iron and solder,
relays, small lead-acid accumulators, etc. Then I found our old 3-valve
Ministry of Supply wartime radio in the loft and, by soldering a grid
wire back on, and replacing the broken selenium (?) diode with an OA81,
managed to get that working again, enough to listen to Radio Luxembourg
anyway.

--
The truth of the matter is that we Scots have always been more divided
amongst
ourselves than pitted against the English. Scottish history before the
Union of
Parliaments is a gloomy, violent tale of murders, feuds, and tribal
revenge.
Only after the Act of Union did Highlanders and Lowlanders, Picts and
Celts,
begin to recognise one another as fellow citizens.

Tam Dalyell

On Tue, 3 Mar 2020 06:45:50 +1100, John_j, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH senile asshole's troll****

06:45 already??? AGAIN? LOL

--
The Natural Philosopher about nym-shifting senile Rodent.
"Rod speed is not a Brexiteer. He is an Australian troll and arsehole."
Message-ID:

Tim Streater formulated the question :
I'd say cars are too complex to do much of that any more.

They are more complex, but the complexity in many ways helps you
diagnose the problems.

I used to
tinker with my Mini 50 years ago and mostly made a mess of it, so I
gave up.

They never came any simpler, than a mini.

Can you even buy workshop manuals for today's cars?

You can, but the home mechanic manuals skim most of the detail. Full
manufacturers manuals are much more detailed.

Don't you
need a computer to check everything? The garage will have one but
would the right kit be available to an end-user?

For not much money, you can buy diagnostic units - complete stand alone
units, or interfaces and software for a laptop. I have four. The car
basically is able to tell you, or at least provide some clues as to
what ails it. How much simpler can it be made?

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I used to
tinker with my Mini 50 years ago and mostly made a mess of it, so I
gave up.

They never came any simpler, than a mini.

Mini wasn't that simple a car to work on. Compared to say a Morris Minor.

--
*A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it uses up a thousand times more memory.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 03 Mar 2020 11:21:24 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I used to tinker with my Mini 50 years ago and mostly made a mess of
it, so I gave up.

They never came any simpler, than a mini.

Mini wasn't that simple a car to work on. Compared to say a Morris
Minor.

Apart from changing the brake master cylinder, as I recall.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

In article ,
Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 03 Mar 2020 11:21:24 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I used to tinker with my Mini 50 years ago and mostly made a mess of
it, so I gave up.

They never came any simpler, than a mini.

Mini wasn't that simple a car to work on. Compared to say a Morris
Minor.

Apart from changing the brake master cylinder, as I recall.

True. ;-)

--
*Many people quit looking for work when they find a job *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 03/03/2020 13:24, Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 03 Mar 2020 11:21:24 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I used to tinker with my Mini 50 years ago and mostly made a mess of
it, so I gave up.

They never came any simpler, than a mini.

Mini wasn't that simple a car to work on. Compared to say a Morris
Minor.

Apart from changing the brake master cylinder, as I recall.



easiest car of all was the herald/spitfire, until you had rust to deal
with...


--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

On 03/03/2020 13:24, Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 03 Mar 2020 11:21:24 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I used to tinker with my Mini 50 years ago and mostly made a mess of
it, so I gave up.

They never came any simpler, than a mini.

Mini wasn't that simple a car to work on. Compared to say a Morris
Minor.

Apart from changing the brake master cylinder, as I recall.



Getting the rear brake drums off old E93A fords needed
a hefty puller, so DIY brake shoe replacement wasn't
easy. Other cars might have been similar.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Mini wasn't that simple a car to work on. Compared to say a Morris Minor.


Anybody remember checking the spark plugs on a 1500 Beetle? ISTR
adapting the tubular spanner by drilling an extra hole so the
tommy-bar would fit in at 45 degrees to the axis.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
@ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

On 03/03/2020 15:51, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Mini wasn't that simple a car to work on. Compared to say a Morris Minor.


Anybody remember checking the spark plugs on a 1500 Beetle? ISTR
adapting the tubular spanner by drilling an extra hole so the
tommy-bar would fit in at 45 degrees to the axis.

Chris


VW Type 3 Fastback was even worse. Getting at the innermost
pair of plugs was so difficult, they were frequently
cross threaded.

On 03/03/2020 11:21, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I used to
tinker with my Mini 50 years ago and mostly made a mess of it, so I
gave up.

They never came any simpler, than a mini.

Mini wasn't that simple a car to work on. Compared to say a Morris Minor.


I know I wrote my 1963 mini 850 off in 1970 and built it into another
body shell when I was 17....best thing that ever happened as being a
good mechanic has saved me a fortune over the last 50 years......OMG the
memories....rubber suspension units requiring a compressor stupid engine
above the gearbox with idling gear bearings that used to go....rotten
rear subframe ..engine tie bar rubber problems etc etc ,,,,

On 03/03/2020 20:03, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 03/03/2020 11:21, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I used to
tinker with my Mini 50 years ago and mostly made a mess of it, so I
gave up.

They never came any simpler, than a mini.

Mini wasn't that simple a car to work on. Compared to say a Morris Minor.


I know I wrote my 1963 mini 850 off in 1970 and built it into another
body shell when I was 17....best thing that ever happened as being a
good mechanic has saved me a fortune over the last 50 years......OMG the
memories....rubber suspension units requiring a compressor stupid engine
above the gearbox with idling gear bearings that used to go....rotten
rear subframe ..engine tie bar rubber problems etc etc ,,,,

and other than two wummin drivers that got me never had another accident ...

On 03/03/2020 20:03, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 03/03/2020 11:21, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I used to
tinker with my Mini 50 years ago and mostly made a mess of it, so I
gave up.

They never came any simpler, than a mini.

Mini wasn't that simple a car to work on. Compared to say a Morris Minor.


I know I wrote my 1963 mini 850 off in 1970 and built it into another
body shell when I was 17....best thing that ever happened as being a
good mechanic has saved me a fortune over the last 50 years......OMG the
memories....rubber suspension units requiring a compressor stupid engine
above the gearbox with idling gear bearings that used to go....rotten
rear subframe ..engine tie bar rubber problems etc etc ,,,,

ENORMOUS socket set needed to work on the lower front
ball joints, which to be fair could be unscrewed and
fixed with a repair kit and new shims.

Most people used a geordie spanner to tighten them.

You forgot, flat battery, and being in the boot meant
a massive voltage drop. Mind you, better than a Hillman
imp with a metal petrol tank in front of you in the 'boot'.

On Mon, 2 Mar 2020 16:44:10 +0000, R D S wrote:

I'm provoked to post this after the thread about whether people DIY or
not anymore.
I've been wondering for some time, in particular WRT my own kids (both
men now in their 20s) if their lives have been so much easier that
necessity has *not* bred any variant of invention.

They are so needy and incapable that I had occasionally wondered if they
were on some spectrum or other but I speak to other people my age and it
sounds par.

snip

63 here with a 39 year old daughter so not sure if we are in the same
category.

When daughter was young I would encourage her to 'help' in whatever I
was doing and if she wanted to, learn how to do it herself. The first
example of that was her soldering up a Vellerman LED xmas tree project
when she was about 6. ;-)

'We' made her dolls house after that (daughter was happy using the
vibro saw) and she had a go in the workshop on the pillar drill
helping me make a bench or welding and angle grinding etc.

Oversize gloves, goggles and other PPE didn't make it any easier for
her but she generally did well (she joined some scraps together with
my MIG welder and put her initial on the front better than I could
have!).

When an elderly family friend needed some decorating doing, daughter
and I did it and from that, daughter recently decorate her own flat
(and very nicely I'm pleased to say. Good prep, good coverage, neat
cutting in / masking).

She also does most of the straightforward jobs on her own vehicles,
assuming you consider changing the alternator overrun clutch on her
Transit Connect or the rear springs on her Corsa straightforward. ;-)

She also serviced her Suzuki 600 Bandit and stripped the carbs off and
down to clean them.

Now to be fair, she does most of that under (my) supervision because
1) she still learning and 2) mistakes can be expensive but the point
is that she does them.

That said, she also mentioned the other day that the Dyson she bought
us, borrowed and hasn't given back, wasn't working properly the other
(pulsing intermittently) and TBF she had cleaned the canister, removed
the roller and de-haired that, but 1) (as you say) didn't know there
was a washable filter hidden in the man body and then 2) didn't think
to look between the main intake and the canister to see if there was
still stuff blocking the airways.

I guess part of the issue is that 1) I am still about and so would she
have tried harder if 2) it was her own stuff (not wanting to risk
breaking something that wasn't hers).

She used to maintain her own chainsaws but was taught that at Arb
College.

So I think it's a mix of need, opportunity (to learn / be taught / be
mentored), things being much cheaper and so more disposable than they
were (cost / disposable income) and things being more reliable but
less repairable than they once were (but I thought there was talk of
that changing)?

The good thing is that her first thought is 'can it be fixed' (by her
then me / us), not just throwing it away and just buying a new one.

Cheers, T i m

p.s. She was also sponsored by an RC Model Car magazine when she was
racing 12th scale RC saloon cars. Whilst she did initially build her
cars, 'Dad' did most of the pit work / tuning. But then I seemed to be
doing that for half the younger drivers that turned up there ... just
dumped off by their parents and with little in the way of spares or
tools. ;-(

The guys that ran the club used to point them towards me ... 'If you
take these spares you have just bought over to that man over there and
ask him nicely, he may fit them for you ...!' (and of course I did).
;-)

T i m wrote:
63 here with a 39 year old daughter so not sure if we are in the same
category.

I'm roughly the same age as your daughter, and a lot of that chimes.
I've been doing DIY (FSVO) since I was six.
Difference is I had nobody to teach me, so I've mostly learnt it myself.

Being in Generation Rent rather hampers the DIY tendencies, but for a long
time I had an absentee landlord who never spent a penny and didn't care, so
I did it myself. The downside was it was never worth investing to do things
properly given you could always be kicked out at 2 months notice, or indeed
fined for changing things. So the DIY was usually minimalist stuff to
keep things going.

Having moved from 30-year-old to 10-year-old cars I don't do as much DIY as
I used to on that front, however it's always difficult when you're working
on the street and don't have anyone to help/tell you you've done it
right/make sure you aren't going to die. So mostly avoid stuff on the
underneath (plus crawling around in the cold is no fun). Previously I did a
carb rebuild and a full underseal, so I can be a slug if I want to be
I have some leaked Toyota dealer software to plug into the OBDII, which
makes fixing stuff on modern cars a lot easier.

Recently bought a house so lots to do in prospect, although not a lot of
free time to do it in

Theo

"Theo" wrote in message
...
T i m wrote:
63 here with a 39 year old daughter so not sure if we are in the same
category.

I'm roughly the same age as your daughter, and a lot of that chimes.
I've been doing DIY (FSVO) since I was six.
Difference is I had nobody to teach me, so I've mostly learnt it myself.

Being in Generation Rent rather hampers the DIY tendencies, but for a long
time I had an absentee landlord who never spent a penny and didn't care,
so
I did it myself. The downside was it was never worth investing to do
things
properly given you could always be kicked out at 2 months notice, or
indeed
fined for changing things. So the DIY was usually minimalist stuff to
keep things going.

Having moved from 30-year-old to 10-year-old cars I don't do as much DIY
as
I used to on that front, however it's always difficult when you're working
on the street and don't have anyone to help/tell you you've done it
right/make sure you aren't going to die.

There is plenty of that on youtube now.

So mostly avoid stuff on the underneath
(plus crawling around in the cold is no fun).

Yeah, but not normally required anymore
if you are careful about what you buy now.

Previously I did a carb rebuild and a full underseal,
so I can be a slug if I want to be

I have some leaked Toyota dealer software to plug into the
OBDII, which makes fixing stuff on modern cars a lot easier.

And the net makes it so much easier to find a cheap replacement now.

Recently bought a house so lots to do in prospect, although not a lot of
free time to do it in

On Tue, 3 Mar 2020 11:09:48 +1100, John_j, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:


And the net makes it so much easier to find a cheap replacement now.

The way it makes it easy for clinically insane senile idiots like you to
shift nym in order to escape people's killfiles, you clinically insane
senile idiot?

--
Norman Wells addressing trolling senile Rodent:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID:

On 02 Mar 2020 22:49:22 +0000 (GMT), Theo
wrote:

T i m wrote:
63 here with a 39 year old daughter so not sure if we are in the same
category.

I'm roughly the same age as your daughter, and a lot of that chimes.

;-)

I've been doing DIY (FSVO) since I was six.

Both daughter and I were naturally 'creative' when we were young. Give
either of us some Selotape, card or paper and we would make all sorts
of things. Same with Lego / Meccano etc.

Difference is I had nobody to teach me, so I've mostly learnt it myself.

That was mostly the same for me, for the things *I* wanted / needed to
do, but my Dad did at least (indirectly) show me how to use tools, by
watching him whilst helping him (no choice). ;-)

But whist the general tools thing was of use, he had little idea re
mechanics or electrics so I would do that round the family home.

Where did I learn that. I don't know, but with no Internet in those
days it can only have been from an inquisitive mind and the
opportunity (house with back garden, tools, workshop, tolerant
parents) to experiment. I was 'left / trusted' to take things to
pieces as long as they were still working properly (or better) when I
was finished. ;-)

When I took the engine out of a Fiat 850 at 15 years old it was just
more of the basic things I had learned from cycles and other machines
and the good old HBOL. ;-)

Being in Generation Rent rather hampers the DIY tendencies, but for a long
time I had an absentee landlord who never spent a penny and didn't care, so
I did it myself. The downside was it was never worth investing to do things
properly given you could always be kicked out at 2 months notice, or indeed
fined for changing things. So the DIY was usually minimalist stuff to
keep things going.

Daughter is in a similar position to you re what she can (or wants,
under the circumstances) in her rented flat. The landlords have
visited and are pleased with all she has done so far (and pay promptly
for any parts we use if we have to repair stuff (like I fitted a new
button panel to the washing machine the other day, because I could and
it was quicker and easier than getting him or the agent down).

We save him some money by fixing some stuff, he is more flexible /
generous re what we can do. ;-)


Having moved from 30-year-old to 10-year-old cars I don't do as much DIY as
I used to on that front, however it's always difficult when you're working
on the street and don't have anyone to help/tell you you've done it
right/make sure you aren't going to die.

I know what you mean Theo. ;-)

However, in many cases the use of a camera, referring to the manual
and being very diligent re compatibility of replacement parts (and the
parts themselves often only going on one way round etc) mean you are
generally ok.

So mostly avoid stuff on the
underneath (plus crawling around in the cold is no fun).

That was partly why we sold the (her) Mini and built the kitcar. ;-)

Previously I did a
carb rebuild and a full underseal, so I can be a slug if I want to be

I take my hat off to you re the undersealing. ;-)

I have some leaked Toyota dealer software to plug into the OBDII, which
makes fixing stuff on modern cars a lot easier.

Whilst I find that sort of diagnostics quite interesting (as I'm into
electronics and 'computers' as well etc), it's not quite the same as
getting your hands dirty, especially a successful engine related job.

Recently bought a house so lots to do in prospect, although not a lot of
free time to do it in

I only bought our house 40 years ago so haven't finished it yet. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On 02 Mar 2020 22:49:22 +0000 (GMT), Theo
wrote:

T i m wrote:
63 here with a 39 year old daughter so not sure if we are in the same
category.

I'm roughly the same age as your daughter, and a lot of that chimes.

;-)

I've been doing DIY (FSVO) since I was six.

Both daughter and I were naturally 'creative' when we were young. Give
either of us some Selotape, card or paper and we would make all sorts
of things. Same with Lego / Meccano etc.

Difference is I had nobody to teach me, so I've mostly learnt it myself.

That was mostly the same for me, for the things *I* wanted / needed to
do, but my Dad did at least (indirectly) show me how to use tools, by
watching him whilst helping him (no choice). ;-)

But whist the general tools thing was of use, he had little idea re
mechanics or electrics so I would do that round the family home.

Where did I learn that. I don't know,

I do, by trial and error and being able to try different
things and see what worked and what didn't.

One of the neighbours kids presented me with a box
full of bits from a bicycle epicyclical gearbox. I had only
a vague idea of how they worked but was able to
assemble it again just by using the wear marks.

but with no Internet in those days it can only have
been from an inquisitive mind and the opportunity
(house with back garden, tools, workshop, tolerant
parents) to experiment.

And a real interest in how things work.

I was 'left / trusted' to take things to
pieces as long as they were still working
properly (or better) when I was finished. ;-)

When I took the engine out of a Fiat 850 at 15 years old
it was just more of the basic things I had learned from
cycles and other machines and the good old HBOL. ;-)

Being in Generation Rent rather hampers the DIY tendencies, but for a long
time I had an absentee landlord who never spent a penny and didn't care,
so
I did it myself. The downside was it was never worth investing to do
things
properly given you could always be kicked out at 2 months notice, or
indeed
fined for changing things. So the DIY was usually minimalist stuff to
keep things going.

Daughter is in a similar position to you re what she can (or wants,
under the circumstances) in her rented flat. The landlords have
visited and are pleased with all she has done so far (and pay promptly
for any parts we use if we have to repair stuff (like I fitted a new
button panel to the washing machine the other day, because I could and
it was quicker and easier than getting him or the agent down).

We save him some money by fixing some stuff, he is more flexible /
generous re what we can do. ;-)


Having moved from 30-year-old to 10-year-old cars I don't do as much DIY
as
I used to on that front, however it's always difficult when you're working
on the street and don't have anyone to help/tell you you've done it
right/make sure you aren't going to die.

I know what you mean Theo. ;-)

However, in many cases the use of a camera, referring to the manual
and being very diligent re compatibility of replacement parts (and the
parts themselves often only going on one way round etc) mean you are
generally ok.

So mostly avoid stuff on the
underneath (plus crawling around in the cold is no fun).

That was partly why we sold the (her) Mini and built the kitcar. ;-)

Previously I did a
carb rebuild and a full underseal, so I can be a slug if I want to be

I take my hat off to you re the undersealing. ;-)

I have some leaked Toyota dealer software to plug into the OBDII, which
makes fixing stuff on modern cars a lot easier.

Whilst I find that sort of diagnostics quite interesting (as I'm into
electronics and 'computers' as well etc), it's not quite the same as
getting your hands dirty, especially a successful engine related job.

Recently bought a house so lots to do in prospect, although not a lot of
free time to do it in

I only bought our house 40 years ago so haven't finished it yet. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Wed, 4 Mar 2020 04:28:06 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH senile asshole's lastest troll****

04:28??? AGAIN, you clinically insane senile idiot? LOL

--
about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID:

On Wed, 4 Mar 2020 04:28:06 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

snip

Where did I learn that. I don't know,

I do, by trial and error and being able to try different
things and see what worked and what didn't.

One of the neighbours kids presented me with a box
full of bits from a bicycle epicyclical gearbox. I had only
a vague idea of how they worked but was able to
assemble it again just by using the wear marks.

I've just stripped, cleaned and re-assembled 3 x Sturmey Archer X-RD3
hubs (3 sp with drum brake) and about to do an AW (3).

As you say, with the right viewpoint the parts on a worn unit often
speak for themselves. Polished, worn, not worn, burred or stained /
rusty are all clues re what was previously touching what.

And springs / ratchet pawls need to go together in a way the pawls are
being loaded against their respective ratchets.

I love seeing individual, clean, functional mechanical parts emerging
from a black greasy blob and knowing it has all gone back together
nicely and with fresh lube [1] etc.

It's rewarding to then use that equipment for years and have it work
reliably and well.

Cheers, T i m

[1] On the early maintenance instructions it mentions reassembling and
'greasing' whereas other and possibly later instructions it recommends
against using grease and using 'Sturmey Archer Oil' (what else g)
instead.

On the hub with integrated drum brake I used a very light waterproof
grease (inc the ratchet pawls) and it works perfectly and I feel it's
less likely for 'lube' to migrate through from the gearbox to the
brake.

On a non braked hub that wouldn't matter so much and so I'm thinking a
light Hypoid gear oil might be best, something that might resist wear
on the gear faces and spindles. It also needs to be heavy enough to
stay coating all the main moving parts, whilst being light enough to
get in all the fine spaces but not run out if the bike is laid on its
side. The outer bearings / cones I would still grease, simply because
I believe it would stay put better, offer better weather protection
and therefore be better for preventing wear.

On Tuesday, 3 March 2020 17:28:17 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"T i m" wrote in message
...
On 02 Mar 2020 22:49:22 +0000 (GMT), Theo
wrote:

T i m wrote:
63 here with a 39 year old daughter so not sure if we are in the same
category.

I'm roughly the same age as your daughter, and a lot of that chimes.

;-)

I've been doing DIY (FSVO) since I was six.

Both daughter and I were naturally 'creative' when we were young. Give
either of us some Selotape, card or paper and we would make all sorts
of things. Same with Lego / Meccano etc.

Difference is I had nobody to teach me, so I've mostly learnt it myself.

That was mostly the same for me, for the things *I* wanted / needed to
do, but my Dad did at least (indirectly) show me how to use tools, by
watching him whilst helping him (no choice). ;-)

But whist the general tools thing was of use, he had little idea re
mechanics or electrics so I would do that round the family home.

Where did I learn that. I don't know,

I do, by trial and error and being able to try different
things and see what worked and what didn't.

So that's what happened you tried neurosurgery on yourself, that explains everything ;-)