charles wrote:

Dave Liquorice wrote:

Bruncefield.

Heard the bang here - 30+ miles away.

Heard it here 70+ miles away.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

A lot of chaps with tea-towels on their heads would be *very* upset if
electrivcity were too cheap to meter...

Even *they* are building new coal generation ...

John Rumm wrote:
On 27/01/2020 07:38, Chris Hogg wrote:


So in the future our cars could either be powered by electric motors
and batteries or ICE's and hydrogen, both recharged in our garages.

You will get significantly better efficiency from the fuel cell option,
although as a way of keeping classic cars running it might be worth it.

Well if LPG is available that would be a far better solution.

(also there is the problem of whether you can burn the hydrogen cleanly
enough in a traditional ICE)

From what Ive picked up off the net hydrogen in an IC engine is just a
terrible idea. Its nothing like as straightforward as running an engine on
LPG. It just has all the wrong combustion characteristics.

https://youtu.be/l6ECwRnJ0Sg

Tim


--
Please don't feed the trolls

Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 13:53:05 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 10:55:08 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
So in the future our cars could either be powered by electric motors
and batteries or ICE's and hydrogen, both recharged in our garages.

Do you really think it an efficient use of energy to convert water to
hydrogen then burn in an IC engine?

But we'll have this vast surplus of green energy, with all these
windmills and solar panels, won't we? The phrase 'too cheap to meter'
comes to mind. ;-)

Then use it to charge an electric car. ;-)

simpler to change the carburetor on an existing vehicle. Our workshop
technician did that to his car during the petrol rationing of 1973,
and ran his car on propane. SU carb, IIRC; he just bored out the jet
and machined a fatter needle, although I doubt that modern carbs are
that simple to DIY modify, but modified carbs would be available
commercially.


Carbs? Wake up grandad. ;-)

Seriously, hydrogen is very different to propane or LPG in its combustion
characteristics. This renders it very unsuited to use in an IC engine.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 27/01/2020 17:08, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 13:53:05 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 10:55:08 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
So in the future our cars could either be powered by electric motors
and batteries or ICE's and hydrogen, both recharged in our garages.

Do you really think it an efficient use of energy to convert water to
hydrogen then burn in an IC engine?

But we'll have this vast surplus of green energy, with all these
windmills and solar panels, won't we? The phrase 'too cheap to meter'
comes to mind. ;-)

Then use it to charge an electric car. ;-)
simpler to change the carburetor on an existing vehicle. Our
workshop
technician did that to his car during the petrol rationing of 1973,
and ran his car on propane. SU carb, IIRC; he just bored out the jet
and machined a fatter needle, although I doubt that modern carbs are
that simple to DIY modify, but modified carbs would be available
commercially.

cars dont have carbs anymore


You can get LPG injection systems.
--
bert

In article , John
Rumm scribeth thus
On 27/01/2020 10:52, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
People also seem to forget that petrol is dangerous stuff to handle and
yet we do that without a thought these days. At least if you "spill"
hydrogen it does not form ground dwelling puddle of highly flammable
vapour.

But at least you can see that puddle.

Normally you can't - as many numpty has found with petrol on bonfires etc:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hdnY2izjzk




Did that the other year load of junk chucked the petrol on it, got
interrupted by a phone call came out flicked a match, warm evening
what's not to like?.

A sort of mini nuke mushroom cloud and a very loud Whump!!

--
Tony Sayer


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
scribeth thus
In article ,
Robin wrote:
Last I heard the 4 dwellings being built in my old grain barn will be
air sourced heat. New build will clearly be well insulated. Plenty of
gas or electricity available so deliberate choice.

Indeed it's usually easy with a new build to meet the noise standards,
rind room for the cylinder, and fit radiators or UFH designed for low
(35 degree?) temp water. But challenging for - say - row after row of
modest Victorian terraced houses which never had a cylinder and have
nowhere obvious to put one, and have radiators sized for 60 or 70
degree. Plus of course the need to massively insulate the solid walls
and suspended floors, and upgrade windows. Even with the Renewable Heat
Incentive I couldn't make the numbers add up for us last year (without
DIY - but then I'm feeling a bit old for that scale of job.)

Quite. If all the housing stock in the UK was upgraded to decent standards
of insulation, energy use would drop dramatically.


If.. it were that Easy Dave!..

But it would seem many prefer to have lots of cheap energy to waste. ;-)


--
Tony Sayer


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

bert wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 27/01/2020 17:08, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 13:53:05 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 10:55:08 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
So in the future our cars could either be powered by electric motors
and batteries or ICE's and hydrogen, both recharged in our garages.

Do you really think it an efficient use of energy to convert water to
hydrogen then burn in an IC engine?

But we'll have this vast surplus of green energy, with all these
windmills and solar panels, won't we? The phrase 'too cheap to meter'
comes to mind. ;-)

Then use it to charge an electric car. ;-)
simpler to change the carburetor on an existing vehicle. Our
workshop
technician did that to his car during the petrol rationing of 1973,
and ran his car on propane. SU carb, IIRC; he just bored out the jet
and machined a fatter needle, although I doubt that modern carbs are
that simple to DIY modify, but modified carbs would be available
commercially.

cars dont have carbs anymore


You can get LPG injection systems.

LPG is not hydrogen.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 27/01/2020 07:33, harry wrote:
On Monday, 27 January 2020 00:19:11 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 21/01/2020 19:04, Tim+ wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Ray wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article l.net,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
The use of domestic gas is to be phased out. It will all go to
power
stations. Houses will have heat pumps.

Wonder if that actually reduces the amount of fossil based CO2
released?

Each conversion has losses. What COP do the heat pumps *have* to
achieve to overcome the losses in the power station and grid
compared
to say an 80% effcient domestic boiler?

Have you considered how many UK homes are suitable for a heat pump
system?

They all are with air sourced heat pumps.

Ah - right. So no need to bury pipes in the ground. Wonder what the
snag
is with that?


Low energy density so you presumably have to move a lot of air to
extract
enough heat in cold weather (which must reduce efficiency).

Make you also wonder what it would be like living in a densely populated
area, where every house has a air sourced heat pump, each shifting and
*cooling* vast quantities of damp winter air. Could be a tad noisy, not
to mention you come out in the morning and find your electric car frozen
to the road :-))

The heat abstracted by a domestic heat pump is trivial.

I would expect it to be close to the heat used keeping the house warm...
so at least 30 kWh / day for much Victorian housing stock.

Yes, but that isnt going to stick electric cars to the road.

On Tue, 28 Jan 2020 09:24:07 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH senile asshole's latest troll****

09:24??? STILL not bedtime for you, senile cretin? Would you be able to
sleep, if you had someone in real life to talk to? You'll NEVER know, eh,
you cantankerous senile pest!

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 85-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 13:53:05 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 10:55:08 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
So in the future our cars could either be powered by electric motors
and batteries or ICE's and hydrogen, both recharged in our garages.

Do you really think it an efficient use of energy to convert water to
hydrogen then burn in an IC engine?

But we'll have this vast surplus of green energy, with all these
windmills and solar panels, won't we? The phrase 'too cheap to meter'
comes to mind. ;-)

Then use it to charge an electric car. ;-)

simpler to change the carburetor on an existing vehicle. Our workshop
technician did that to his car during the petrol rationing of 1973,
and ran his car on propane. SU carb, IIRC; he just bored out the jet
and machined a fatter needle, although I doubt that modern carbs are
that simple to DIY modify, but modified carbs would be available
commercially.

Current cars don't have carbs, they inject petrol or diesel directly.

"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 27/01/2020 17:08, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 13:53:05 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 10:55:08 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
So in the future our cars could either be powered by electric motors
and batteries or ICE's and hydrogen, both recharged in our garages.

Do you really think it an efficient use of energy to convert water to
hydrogen then burn in an IC engine?

But we'll have this vast surplus of green energy, with all these
windmills and solar panels, won't we? The phrase 'too cheap to meter'
comes to mind. ;-)

Then use it to charge an electric car. ;-)
simpler to change the carburetor on an existing vehicle. Our workshop
technician did that to his car during the petrol rationing of 1973,
and ran his car on propane. SU carb, IIRC; he just bored out the jet
and machined a fatter needle, although I doubt that modern carbs are
that simple to DIY modify, but modified carbs would be available
commercially.

cars dont have carbs anymore


You can get LPG injection systems.

But those cant be diyed into a hydrogen injection system.

On 27/01/2020 19:06, Andy Burns wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

A lot of chaps with tea-towels on their heads would be *very* upset if
electrivcity were too cheap to meter...

Even *they* are building new coal generation ...

No, nuclear mostly


--
You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a
kind word alone.

Al Capone

On 27/01/2020 19:07, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 18:26:28 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 27/01/2020 17:08, Chris Hogg wrote:

simpler to change the carburetor on an existing vehicle. Our workshop
technician did that to his car during the petrol rationing of 1973,
and ran his car on propane. SU carb, IIRC; he just bored out the jet
and machined a fatter needle, although I doubt that modern carbs are
that simple to DIY modify, but modified carbs would be available
commercially.

cars dont have carbs anymore

Really? I didn't know that! I've driven a diesel for so long I'm
obviously way out of touch! LOL. But even replacing the fuel feed
system, whatever it's called and however it works, would be simpler
and cheaper than buying a batterymobil.

not so sufuel injection is designed to cope with liquid fuel.
The injectors can wear a bit before the fuel starts seeping through.
Hydrogen gets thrugh the smallest of cracks.

Seriously it is onlyt reall useful in a fuel cell context: as a burnable
fuel its pants. Only rockets use it for that reason.




--
You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a
kind word alone.

Al Capone

On 27/01/2020 19:48, Tim+ wrote:
Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 13:53:05 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 10:55:08 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
So in the future our cars could either be powered by electric motors
and batteries or ICE's and hydrogen, both recharged in our garages.

Do you really think it an efficient use of energy to convert water to
hydrogen then burn in an IC engine?

But we'll have this vast surplus of green energy, with all these
windmills and solar panels, won't we? The phrase 'too cheap to meter'
comes to mind. ;-)

Then use it to charge an electric car. ;-)

simpler to change the carburetor on an existing vehicle. Our workshop
technician did that to his car during the petrol rationing of 1973,
and ran his car on propane. SU carb, IIRC; he just bored out the jet
and machined a fatter needle, although I doubt that modern carbs are
that simple to DIY modify, but modified carbs would be available
commercially.


Carbs? Wake up grandad. ;-)

Seriously, hydrogen is very different to propane or LPG in its combustion
characteristics. This renders it very unsuited to use in an IC engine.

Except rockets. It works ok in rockets

Tim



--
You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a
kind word alone.

Al Capone

On 27/01/2020 20:17, bert wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 27/01/2020 17:08, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 13:53:05 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Â*Â* Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 10:55:08 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Â*Â* Chris Hogg wrote:
So in the future our cars could either be powered by electric motors
and batteries or ICE's and hydrogen, both recharged in our garages.

Do you really think it an efficient use of energy to convert water to
hydrogen then burn in an IC engine?

But we'll have this vast surplus of green energy, with all these
windmills and solar panels, won't we? The phrase 'too cheap to meter'
comes to mind. ;-)

Then use it to charge an electric car. ;-)
Â*simpler to change the carburetor on an existing vehicle. Our workshop
technician did that to his car during the petrol rationing of 1973,
and ran his car on propane. SU carb, IIRC; he just bored out the jet
and machined a fatter needle, although I doubt that modern carbs are
that simple to DIY modify, but modified carbs would be available
commercially.

cars dont have carbs anymore


You can get LPG injection systems.
But not hydrohgen injection systems


--
Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

A lot of chaps with tea-towels on their heads would be *very* upset
if electrivcity were too cheap to meter...

Even *they* are building new coal generation ...

No,Â* nuclear mostly

I didn't say mostly coal, but UAE are building some ...

Hassyan, not clear if it's 1200+1200MW in two phases or 1200+2400MW,
Ras al-Khaimah 1800MW

Andy Burns wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

nuclear mostly

I didn't say mostly coal, but UAE are building some ...

7% coal and 7% nuclear

https://government.ae/en/about-the-uae/strategies-initiatives-and-awards/local-governments-strategies-and-plans/dubai-clean-energy-strategy

In article ,
Ray wrote:


"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 13:53:05 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 10:55:08 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
So in the future our cars could either be powered by electric motors
and batteries or ICE's and hydrogen, both recharged in our garages.

Do you really think it an efficient use of energy to convert water to
hydrogen then burn in an IC engine?

But we'll have this vast surplus of green energy, with all these
windmills and solar panels, won't we? The phrase 'too cheap to meter'
comes to mind. ;-)

Then use it to charge an electric car. ;-)

simpler to change the carburetor on an existing vehicle. Our workshop
technician did that to his car during the petrol rationing of 1973,
and ran his car on propane. SU carb, IIRC; he just bored out the jet
and machined a fatter needle, although I doubt that modern carbs are
that simple to DIY modify, but modified carbs would be available
commercially.

Current cars don't have carbs, they inject petrol or diesel directly.

'currently manufactured cars'. There are still plenty of cars with carbs on
the roads.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 27/01/2020 19:07, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 18:26:28 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 27/01/2020 17:08, Chris Hogg wrote:

simpler to change the carburetor on an existing vehicle. Our workshop
technician did that to his car during the petrol rationing of 1973,
and ran his car on propane. SU carb, IIRC; he just bored out the jet
and machined a fatter needle, although I doubt that modern carbs are
that simple to DIY modify, but modified carbs would be available
commercially.

cars dont have carbs anymore

Really? I didn't know that! I've driven a diesel for so long I'm
obviously way out of touch! LOL. But even replacing the fuel feed
system, whatever it's called and however it works, would be simpler
and cheaper than buying a batterymobil.

not so sufuel injection is designed to cope with liquid fuel.
The injectors can wear a bit before the fuel starts seeping through.
Hydrogen gets thrugh the smallest of cracks.

Seriously it is onlyt reall useful in a fuel cell context: as a burnable
fuel its pants. Only rockets use it for that reason.

There are in fact some hydrogen power buses that dont use fuel cells.

On Tue, 28 Jan 2020 14:59:27 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

You can get LPG injection systems.

But those cant be diyed into a hydrogen injection system.

This senile asshole just HAS to auto-contradict! EVERY time! No wonder he
has NOBODY in real life to talk to! LOL

--
Sqwertz to Rot Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:

On Tue, 28 Jan 2020 14:00:30 +1100, Ray, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

simpler to change the carburetor on an existing vehicle. Our workshop
technician did that to his car during the petrol rationing of 1973,
and ran his car on propane. SU carb, IIRC; he just bored out the jet
and machined a fatter needle, although I doubt that modern carbs are
that simple to DIY modify, but modified carbs would be available
commercially.

Current cars don't have carbs, they inject petrol or diesel directly.

....and the pathological auto-contradicting senile asshole did it, AGAIN! LOL

--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing senile Rot:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID:

On Tue, 28 Jan 2020 08:04:48 +0000 (GMT), charles wrote:

Current cars don't have carbs, they inject petrol or diesel
directly.

'currently manufactured cars'. There are still plenty of cars with carbs
on the roads.

I wouldn't like to bet on that. The last petrol car I had was M
(prefix) reg and injection. Just a bog standard family saloon,
nothing fancy or "go faster".

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 28/01/2020 10:18, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jan 2020 08:04:48 +0000 (GMT), charles wrote:

Current cars don't have carbs, they inject petrol or diesel
directly.

'currently manufactured cars'. There are still plenty of cars with carbs
on the roads.


Only pretty old ones. The emissions regulations will have removed any
carb car later than the 'vintage car cutoff date'. I think thats more
than 40 years old essentially.


I wouldn't like to bet on that. The last petrol car I had was M
(prefix) reg and injection. Just a bog standard family saloon,
nothing fancy or "go faster".


Last non injection vehicle I owned was a Triumph Spitfire back in the 1980s

upgraded to an injected Opel Manta 2 litre and never looked back.


--
Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.

charles wrote:

'currently manufactured cars'. There are still plenty of cars with carbs on
the roads.


Interesting use of the word €œplenty€�. Essentially, they stopped appearing
on new cars with the introduction of catalytic converters, which was really
quite a long time ago now...

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
Quite. If all the housing stock in the UK was upgraded to decent standards
of insulation, energy use would drop dramatically.


If.. it were that Easy Dave!..

Well, providing enough electricity to heat existing ones - and distribute
it, and convert all the boilers from gas - ain't going to be easy either.

--
* I like you. You remind me of when I was young and stupid

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
charles wrote:
Current cars don't have carbs, they inject petrol or diesel directly.

'currently manufactured cars'. There are still plenty of cars with carbs
on the roads.

Care to guess at the percentage? ;-)

--
*Can atheists get insurance for acts of God? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Only pretty old ones. The emissions regulations will have removed any
carb car later than the 'vintage car cutoff date'. I think thats more
than 40 years old essentially.

Not so. 1996 is the date. Earlier than that, a decent carb car can pass
the emissions requirement.

The original Mini never had fuel injection as such. Single point, which is
in essence just a better type of carb. And cheaper to make.

--
*Prepositions are not words to end sentences with *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 28/01/2020 15:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Only pretty old ones. The emissions regulations will have removed any
carb car later than the 'vintage car cutoff date'. I think thats more
than 40 years old essentially.

Not so. 1996 is the date. Earlier than that, a decent carb car can pass
the emissions requirement.

Carbs can pass the post-96 emissions tests, it just takes more effort
and extra controls and so was generally easier to do with injection and
carbs pretty well disappeared from new cars then.

SteveW

On 27/01/2020 13:55, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Robin wrote:
Last I heard the 4 dwellings being built in my old grain barn will be
air sourced heat. New build will clearly be well insulated. Plenty of
gas or electricity available so deliberate choice.

Indeed it's usually easy with a new build to meet the noise standards,
rind room for the cylinder, and fit radiators or UFH designed for low
(35 degree?) temp water. But challenging for - say - row after row of
modest Victorian terraced houses which never had a cylinder and have
nowhere obvious to put one, and have radiators sized for 60 or 70
degree. Plus of course the need to massively insulate the solid walls
and suspended floors, and upgrade windows. Even with the Renewable Heat
Incentive I couldn't make the numbers add up for us last year (without
DIY - but then I'm feeling a bit old for that scale of job.)

Quite. If all the housing stock in the UK was upgraded to decent standards
of insulation, energy use would drop dramatically.

We already have double glazing, cavity wall insulation and loft
insulation. Adding more would be a real problem.

If we added internal insulation (even a couple of inches), we would have
to completely redesign our bathroom, could not fit the bed in the alcove
between the front wall and the chimney in the front bedroom, or between
the back wall and the archway (old rear of the house) in the back
bedroom, the box room would be too narrow for my eldest son to use
(unless we removed all storage and his computer desk), the kitchen would
need to be redesigned and would not fit the appliances in there now
(unless we lost even more, much needed, cupboard space and re-wired and
re-plumbed for different positions) and it would be impossible (it is
already very difficult) to get furniture up and down our staircase that
has two quarter turn landings.

If we added external insulation, it would require repositioning of
external pipework and gulleys, removal and replacement of window outer
sills (possibly requiring removal of every window to do so), removal and
replacement of canopy supports at the front door, the same for
disability grab-rails and it would make our house completely out of
character for the area (they are all exposed brick, not rendered).
Again, just a couple of inches would narrow the access down the side of
my house too much and prevent a vehicle accessing my garage in the back
garden (I have had to be guided through with just 1/2" each side of the
paintwork and the mirrors folded in at the narrowest point - and as I
keep a car in there, that would be a real problem).

Increasing our loft insulation would require a higher, raised floor for
storage of items and, as our house was originally very short front to
back (a flat-roofed extension was added later) the height in the loft is
very limited and would become a problem.

But it would seem many prefer to have lots of cheap energy to waste. ;-)

I would love to save money by saving energy, but physical constraints
rule out better insulation as an option - other than replacing all the
windows.

SteveW

On 28/01/2020 18:10, Steve Walker wrote:
On 28/01/2020 15:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Only pretty old ones. The emissions regulations will have removed any
carb car later than the 'vintage car cutoff date'. I think thats more
than 40 years old essentially.

Not so. 1996 is the date. Earlier than that, a decent carb car can pass
the emissions requirement.

Carbs can pass the post-96 emissions tests, it just takes more effort
and extra controls and so was generally easier to do with injection and
carbs pretty well disappeared from new cars then.

SteveW
Yeah, I had a series III and that just about passed emissions wioth a
(new) carb now, I remember...


--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

On 28/01/2020 18:33, Steve Walker wrote:

I would love to save money by saving energy, but physical constraints
rule out better insulation as an option - other than replacing all the
windows.


For our bedrooms I've pondered filling in the windows in (with
insulation), heat recovery vents through the ceiling, and flat screen
TVs on the inside with a live feed from external cameras to see if it's
raining etc. But I feel there's likely to be problems with the planners
and over fire access

I've also pondered, given the thermal performance of even double glazed
windows, putting to the Treasury the merits of a "window tax".


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 28/01/2020 21:00, Robin wrote:
On 28/01/2020 18:33, Steve Walker wrote:

I would love to save money by saving energy, but physical constraints
rule out better insulation as an option - other than replacing all the
windows.


For our bedrooms I've pondered filling in the windows in (with
insulation), heat recovery vents through the ceiling, and flat screen
TVs on the inside with a live feed from external cameras to see if it's
raining etc.Â* But I feel there's likely to be problems with the planners
and over fire access

I've also pondered, given theÂ* thermal performance of even double glazed
windows,Â* putting to the Treasury the merits of a "window tax".


You can add thermally interlined curtains and gain at least double tethe
double glazed performance


--
€œIdeas are inherently conservative. They yield not to the attack of
other ideas but to the massive onslaught of circumstance"

- John K Galbraith

In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
On 28/01/2020 15:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Only pretty old ones. The emissions regulations will have removed any
carb car later than the 'vintage car cutoff date'. I think thats more
than 40 years old essentially.

Not so. 1996 is the date. Earlier than that, a decent carb car can pass
the emissions requirement.

Carbs can pass the post-96 emissions tests, it just takes more effort
and extra controls and so was generally easier to do with injection and
carbs pretty well disappeared from new cars then.

Quite. We were very late in mandating cats. in this country. Other
countries had cats. and carbs many years earlier.

--
*I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
Quite. If all the housing stock in the UK was upgraded to decent
standards of insulation, energy use would drop dramatically.

We already have double glazing, cavity wall insulation and loft
insulation. Adding more would be a real problem.

And there are still lots of houses where you can't even fit cavity
insulation. Perhaps the majority in this part of London and the centres of
other cities.

--
*Microsoft broke Volkswagen's record: They only made 21.4 million bugs.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 28/01/2020 18:10, Steve Walker wrote:
On 28/01/2020 15:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Only pretty old ones. The emissions regulations will have removed any
carb car later than the 'vintage car cutoff date'. I think thats more
than 40 years old essentially.

Not so. 1996 is the date. Earlier than that, a decent carb car can pass
the emissions requirement.

Carbs can pass the post-96 emissions tests, it just takes more effort
and extra controls and so was generally easier to do with injection and
carbs pretty well disappeared from new cars then.

SteveW
Yeah, I had a series III and that just about passed emissions wioth a
(new) carb now, I remember...

The last version of the SU carb had electronic control. Stepper motors for
both idle and mixture. Worked very well indeed - but of course was far to
complex for the average mechanic if anything should go wrong. And the cost
likely the same or higher than simple injection.


--

--
*Prepositions are not words to end sentences with *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Tim Lamb wrote:
And there are still lots of houses where you can't even fit cavity
insulation. Perhaps the majority in this part of London and the centres
of other cities.
Most of London houses seem to be sliding down the hills they are built
on!

Really?

Given this area was built in the 1880s, I doubt there are many modern
estates that will last as long.

--
*Real women don't have hot flashes, they have power surges.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 16/01/2020 16:13, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote:
Nice short link then.
I thought fuel cells were the way to go, crack water using solar, then let
the oxygen free, use the hydrogen for the cell and when it combines with the
oxygen you get water plus some excess heat and electricity.
Brian


Had a demo drive of Hydrogen fuelled Honda ... impressed with it
Plus they had the 'generate at site' fuel pump that you refilled
with..... seemed as quick as filling a diesel car

On 29/01/2020 10:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 28/01/2020 21:00, Robin wrote:
On 28/01/2020 18:33, Steve Walker wrote:

I would love to save money by saving energy, but physical constraints
rule out better insulation as an option - other than replacing all
the windows.


For our bedrooms I've pondered filling in the windows in (with
insulation), heat recovery vents through the ceiling, and flat screen
TVs on the inside with a live feed from external cameras to see if
it's raining etc.Â* But I feel there's likely to be problems with the
planners and over fire access

I've also pondered, given theÂ* thermal performance of even double
glazed windows,Â* putting to the Treasury the merits of a "window tax".


You can add thermally interlined curtains and gain at least double tethe
double glazed performance


This is something I have wondered about. I have roller blinds, which I
figure would be quite effective, as there is an air gap. The fly in the
ointment of this theory is convection. I even drilled little magnets
into my window frames, so that the roller blinds snap shut at the
bottom. But there is still the sides and top, I think the top is what
pelmets were for?


But I guess convection would hurt thermally lined curtains too.

I've never seen any compelling research on this subject.

On 30/01/2020 18:07, Pancho wrote:
On 29/01/2020 10:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 28/01/2020 21:00, Robin wrote:
On 28/01/2020 18:33, Steve Walker wrote:

I would love to save money by saving energy, but physical
constraints rule out better insulation as an option - other than
replacing all the windows.


For our bedrooms I've pondered filling in the windows in (with
insulation), heat recovery vents through the ceiling, and flat screen
TVs on the inside with a live feed from external cameras to see if
it's raining etc.Â* But I feel there's likely to be problems with the
planners and over fire access

I've also pondered, given theÂ* thermal performance of even double
glazed windows,Â* putting to the Treasury the merits of a "window tax".


You can add thermally interlined curtains and gain at least double
tethe double glazed performance


This is something I have wondered about. I have roller blinds, which I
figure would be quite effective, as there is an air gap. The fly in the
ointment of this theory is convection. I even drilled little magnets
into my window frames, so that the roller blinds snap shut at the
bottom. But there is still the sides and top, I think the top is what
pelmets were for?


But I guess convection would hurt thermally lined curtains too.

I've never seen any compelling research on this subject.

When I draw the big thermally lined curtains in my living room in the
mornings the wash of cold air on me bare tootsies suggests they do more
than a little.

Even though there are air gaps, they slow the rate of airflow down a lot..

and they cut down radiative losses too.


Remember it's the base where the cold air wants to fall out. Not the
top.Normally the window cill is pretty much up against the lower part of
the curtain, and people who let theirs drape on the floor have even more
chance of trapping the air.


--
Of what good are dead warriors? €¦ Warriors are those who desire battle
more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump
their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the
battle dance and dream of glory €¦ The good of dead warriors, Mother, is
that they are dead.
Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.