Because I've been tempted to buy some of the new Honda 4 cylcle
engine-powers garden equipment, and until recently the really small
engines have always been 2 cycle. Or at least I think they have.

Dean

"dean" wrote in message
oups.com...
Because I've been tempted to buy some of the new Honda 4 cylcle
engine-powers garden equipment, and until recently the really small
engines have always been 2 cycle. Or at least I think they have.

Dean


Two stroke engines are lighter for the same power output. They are also
usually noisier, shorter lived, use more fuel, and pollute more.

Choose the best compromise for the job.

KB

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
...

"dean" wrote in message
oups.com...
Because I've been tempted to buy some of the new Honda 4 cylcle
engine-powers garden equipment, and until recently the really small
engines have always been 2 cycle. Or at least I think they have.

Dean


Two stroke engines are lighter for the same power output. They are also
usually noisier, shorter lived, use more fuel, and pollute more.

Choose the best compromise for the job.

KB




Except for Old LAwnboys

They last forever.

They are magical..

Dean,

I like both, but I've observed that it seems there are more homeowners
having problems with small 4-cycle engines than with small 2-cycle
engines. This is just my observation, plus it doesn't necessarily imply
a defect of small 4-cycle engines. My guess is that most homeowners
can remember to add the correct oil to the gasoline for a 2-cycle
application when they refill the gasoline storage tank, but they have
a greater tendency to forget to check oil levels and frequently replace
oil in 4-cycle applications. The average homeowner easily forgets
the oil in the crankcase, and his wife and his 13 year-old son are
even worse. Just my guess.

I've got a couple of Ryobi 4-cycle small engines and I've been unhappy
with both. Internet browsing indicates that I'm not alone - there seem
to be universal problems with starting and smooth running. Like many
small engines, these are "idiot-proofed" by having no engine adjustments
other than idle control. They also have an electronic governor which
causes the engine to intentionally miss at a level necessary to avoid
exceeding engine red-line when you give it full throttle. I'm not certain
if I trust those electronics.

Honda seems to have a good reputation for all small engines. You'll
probably be happy with their products.

Good luck,
Gideon


dean wrote in message
.com...
Because I've been tempted to buy some of the new Honda 4 cylcle
engine-powers garden equipment, and until recently the really small
engines have always been 2 cycle. Or at least I think they have.

Dean

Wow, I definitely agree. The main workhorses for my son's lawnmowing
business are two lawnboy mowers. He purchased one used Lawnboy
10 years ago and it is still a very reliable mower. The other is 6 years
old, but functionally it is really about 40-50 years old when you factor
in the number of times that it is used each week in its "commercial"
mode.

On average, we'll spend about $100 total per year on parts for those
2 Lawnboys, which is comparable to the average homeowner spending
about $8 or so on his mower each year. Not bad. If the damned
wheels/tires didn't wear out so fast, we'd be even better off.

Gideon




Jeffrae wrote in message ...
"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
...

"dean" wrote in message
oups.com...
Because I've been tempted to buy some of the new Honda 4 cylcle
engine-powers garden equipment, and until recently the really small
engines have always been 2 cycle. Or at least I think they have.

Dean


Two stroke engines are lighter for the same power output. They are also
usually noisier, shorter lived, use more fuel, and pollute more.

Choose the best compromise for the job.

KB




Except for Old LAwnboys

They last forever.

They are magical..

Kyle Boatright wrote:
"dean" wrote in message
oups.com...
Because I've been tempted to buy some of the new Honda 4 cylcle
engine-powers garden equipment, and until recently the really small
engines have always been 2 cycle. Or at least I think they have.

Dean


Two stroke engines are lighter for the same power output. They are
also usually noisier, shorter lived, use more fuel, and pollute more.

Choose the best compromise for the job.

KB

Many of the cheaper ones are shorter lived, but it is not really part of
being 2 cycle. Remember when Saab had a life time warrantee on their 2
cycle automotive engines? It is a great way to lube the engine, but it can
also be just part of a cheap way of building an engine.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

On 24 May 2005 19:58:45 -0700, "dean" wrote:

Because I've been tempted to buy some of the new Honda 4 cylcle
engine-powers garden equipment, and until recently the really small
engines have always been 2 cycle. Or at least I think they have.

Dean

Use two cycle for equipment that needs to be tilted, such as:
chain saw, trimmer, etc.

Use four cycle for tools that are always used level on wheels, like:
lawn mower, edger, etc.

Thunder

This really depends on the type of equipment you want to buy. I have
honda engines on my pressure washer, generator and snowblower (all 4
cycle). Craftman 4 cycle edger and 4 cycle backup lawnmower.

My 2 cycle equipement consists of my lawnboy, echo weed wacker,
mccullen chainsaw and old backup snowblower.

The 2 cycle stuff is great with it being light weight and can really go
in any direction without the motor not being lubricated.

The 4 cycle really has the power though anything and really sips fuel.


In terms of maintence, 2 cycle is easier. The 4 cycle you need to
change the oil every year. But its rather easy to do anyway. Over the
long haul, I really go like honda engines. They beat the heck out of
briggs and tucemsen engine.

According to Jeffrae :
Except for Old LAwnboys

Except if you need parts. I was visiting a Lawnboy dealer today,
and he said that now that Toro has bought them, and now that
most places are banning 2 stroke lawnmowers, parts for old
units will be virtually impossible to obtain, unless you're
lucky and the dealer already has it in stock.

With Homelite, the situation is worse. John Deere has
bought 'em. You can't get Homelite parts from Deere dealers,
and the Homelite dealers can't (or soon won't be able to)
get parts either.

Fortunately, the dealer had my homelite gaskets in stock.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Keep in mind that 4-cycle engines which can be opperated
in any orientation, including upside down, are now available
for trimmers, etc.

=========

Rolling Thunder wrote in message
...
On 24 May 2005 19:58:45 -0700, "dean" wrote:

Because I've been tempted to buy some of the new Honda 4 cylcle
engine-powers garden equipment, and until recently the really small
engines have always been 2 cycle. Or at least I think they have.

Dean

Use two cycle for equipment that needs to be tilted, such as:
chain saw, trimmer, etc.

Use four cycle for tools that are always used level on wheels, like:
lawn mower, edger, etc.

Thunder

wrote:
This really depends on the type of equipment you want to buy. I have
honda engines on my pressure washer, generator and snowblower (all 4
cycle). Craftman 4 cycle edger and 4 cycle backup lawnmower.

My 2 cycle equipement consists of my lawnboy, echo weed wacker,
mccullen chainsaw and old backup snowblower.

The 2 cycle stuff is great with it being light weight and can really
go in any direction without the motor not being lubricated.

The 4 cycle really has the power though anything and really sips fuel.


In terms of maintence, 2 cycle is easier. The 4 cycle you need to
change the oil every year. But its rather easy to do anyway. Over
the long haul, I really go like honda engines. They beat the heck
out of briggs and tucemsen engine.

Well at least the commercial duty Honda engines. They now have consumer
engines out that may be better than most others, they are not the equal to
their commercial engines.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Actually my snowblower is the only one that uses a residental grade
motor (gc160) its a honda hs520as.

The generator and power washer use the gx160 engines.
(I also have a gx110 and gx120 sitting there too for future use)

The gx commercial engines are tuff to kill. They should last the
regular
home owner years if properly taken care of.

Tom

Joseph Meehan wrote:
Kyle Boatright wrote:

"dean" wrote in message
groups.com...

Because I've been tempted to buy some of the new Honda 4 cylcle
engine-powers garden equipment, and until recently the really small
engines have always been 2 cycle. Or at least I think they have.

Dean


Two stroke engines are lighter for the same power output. They are
also usually noisier, shorter lived, use more fuel, and pollute more.

Choose the best compromise for the job.

KB


Many of the cheaper ones are shorter lived, but it is not really part of
being 2 cycle. Remember when Saab had a life time warrantee on their 2
cycle automotive engines? It is a great way to lube the engine, but it can
also be just part of a cheap way of building an engine.

Amazing how quick their 850cc Monte Carlo GT was.

Some personal ramblings about 2 cycle vs. 4 cycle
tools:
I have a 2 cycle leaf blower, weed whacker & snow
blower; 4 cycle mower, power washer
and generator. The 2 cycle engines are somewhat
harder to start, however, the
4 cycle power washer w/3.5HP B&S is the worst at
starting. It says easy "easy
start design." Right! I almost always have to
use starting fluid on this one when the
engine is real cold. One problem I've noticed is
the priming bulb. They usually
say to press 3 times max! Well, if engine has the
gas tank under the carb, I press
it many, many times until I hear and feel the gas
moving (leaf blower, weed whacker,
power washer). If the gas tank is above the carb,
2 or 3 presses is fine. Also, I
have noticed that every engine want to be started
in its own way, i.e. chock position,
throttle, etc. I have also noticed on the 2 cycle
engines, ambient temperature seems to
play a big part. I have to adjust the air/gas
mixture when the weather is really hot.
The one real objection that I have with 2 cycle
engines is that I come in the house
after using the tool and I smell like gas and oil.
This doesn't seem to happen with
the 4 cycle tools. Some of that might be that the
leaf blower and whacker are much
closer to your body than say a mower. But it also
occurs when using the 2 cycle
snow blower which obviously is pushed like a lawn
mower.

wrote:
You cant even GIVE me a 2 cycle engine for FREE. I have hated every
one of them that I have ever owned, and I end up fixing the damn
things more than using them. I am referring to the small ones like
chainsaws, weed whackers, etc. I threw all of them in the trash and
bought electric ones. If you want to spend half your weekend pulling
the damn strings on the tool, get a 2 cycle, but you'll also be
spending up to half the cost of a new tool each year to get the damn
thing fixed about 5 times each year. No 2 cycle tool will ever be
allowed on my property again.

Seeing what everyone said on here about Lawn Boy 2 cycle mowers, I
also tend to disagree. I bought one at a garage sale.. It worked for
awhile, but like the chainsaws, it needed to be pulled and pulled and
pulled to get it to start. I drained the gas in fall. The next
spring I pulled that cord for hours, added carb cleaner, changed the
plug and air filter and yanked on that cord for a few more hours.
By that time, I went and got my trusty over 20 year old 4 cycle 3.5HP
Briggs engine mower that is so worn I have to add oil everytime I mow
because it smokes like crazy. I had not used it in about 2 years, and
forgot to drain the gas. I gave the string one pull and it was
running. The Lawn Boy went in the trash, I bought another newer 4
cycle mower, and still got that old junker that always starts, just in
case I need a spare.



On 24 May 2005 19:58:45 -0700, "dean" wrote:


Because I've been tempted to buy some of the new Honda 4 cylcle
engine-powers garden equipment, and until recently the really small
engines have always been 2 cycle. Or at least I think they have.

Dean

Betcha didn't know that EMD (GM locomotive) diesel engines are
2-stroke. Besides whole series of Detroit Diesels. Back when, it was
their way of upping power/weight.

Same reason for consumer 2-strokes: power/weight. In addition to not
having to keep crankcase down to avoid creating smokescreen.

You'd do best to invest in quality tool, that works for you. With
engine type choice only influenced by quality and whether it requires
you to keep more types of fuel mix on hand. (Kids running 2-stroke on
pure gas are a problem, too.)

HTH,
John

Years ago, I learned that two stroke engines have more HP per pound of
engine weight. Cause the piston fires on every stroke. Four cycles have an
exhaust stroke, which means that the cylinder fires every second time. I
believe the spark plug sparks every time the cylinder comes up. But, during
the exhaust stroke, the spark is wasted.

Many or most of the lawn mowers I've worked on (almost all four stroke) the
oil has been low.
--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"dean" wrote in message
oups.com...
Because I've been tempted to buy some of the new Honda 4 cylcle
engine-powers garden equipment, and until recently the really small
engines have always been 2 cycle. Or at least I think they have.

Dean

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Years ago, I learned that two stroke engines have more HP per pound of
engine weight.

That can be true, but not always. I believe it was more likely years
ago. Today there is a lot more work being done of four cycle engines
because the two cycles are so dirty and production will likely be shut down
in the future for pollution control issues. They are just too hard to clean
up.

Cause the piston fires on every stroke. Four cycles
have an exhaust stroke, which means that the cylinder fires every
second time. I believe the spark plug sparks every time the cylinder
comes up. But, during the exhaust stroke, the spark is wasted.

Many or most of the lawn mowers I've worked on (almost all four
stroke) the oil has been low.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

"dean" wrote in message
oups.com...
Because I've been tempted to buy some of the new Honda 4 cylcle
engine-powers garden equipment, and until recently the really small
engines have always been 2 cycle. Or at least I think they have.

Dean

Just bought a 4 cycle Troy-Bilt string trimmer and I am happy with it so
far. Here are some things I have found.
It weighs about 1 pound more than the 2 cycle model (as stated in brochure).
The 4 cyc units cost about $60 more than similar 2 cycle models.
The 4 seems to vibrate a bit more, but not too bad.
It seems quieter than the 2, but I still wear ear plugs.
After using the 4, my hair & cloths don't smell like burnt oil gas mix.
My owners manual states that a valve clearance adjustment must be done every
so often. 10 hrs 1st time - 25 hours after that. Same for oil changes.

I went to the 4 because I was tired of having to mix oil/gas. I have 3
different things with 2 cyc engines, and all 3 required different mix ratio.

Kevin

Yeah, 2 cycles suck bigtime! I've read that 2-cycle motors are banned in
certain areas in California - makes sense to me, they have twice the exhaust
stoke of 4-cycle so there is definitely an air pollution issue here. Also
noisier than 4-cycle. I bought the 4-cycle Troy-bilt weedeater, too. Yes,
it is heavier but I worked with 2 cycle weedeates for too many years, sick
of the fumes, noise, grease, I'd never go back now. I can't think of any
reason why you'd want to have a 2 cycle motor when 4 cycles are getting more
common for lawn work now.

"Kevin Ricks" wrote in message
news

"dean" wrote in message
oups.com...
Because I've been tempted to buy some of the new Honda 4 cylcle
engine-powers garden equipment, and until recently the really small
engines have always been 2 cycle. Or at least I think they have.

Dean

Just bought a 4 cycle Troy-Bilt string trimmer and I am happy with it so
far. Here are some things I have found.
It weighs about 1 pound more than the 2 cycle model (as stated in
brochure).
The 4 cyc units cost about $60 more than similar 2 cycle models.
The 4 seems to vibrate a bit more, but not too bad.
It seems quieter than the 2, but I still wear ear plugs.
After using the 4, my hair & cloths don't smell like burnt oil gas mix.
My owners manual states that a valve clearance adjustment must be done
every
so often. 10 hrs 1st time - 25 hours after that. Same for oil changes.

I went to the 4 because I was tired of having to mix oil/gas. I have 3
different things with 2 cyc engines, and all 3 required different mix
ratio.

Kevin

"Nathan Gant" wrote in message
nk.net...
Yeah, 2 cycles suck bigtime! I've read that 2-cycle motors are banned in
certain areas in California - makes sense to me, they have twice the
exhaust
stoke of 4-cycle so there is definitely an air pollution issue here.

Your conclusion is correct, but the reasons are wrong. The number of strokes
does not determine how much pollution is emitted. Displacement, quantity of
fuel, content of oil are more important.

On 13-Jun-2005, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

Displacement, quantity of
fuel, content of oil are more important.

Not to mention that you are mixing incoming air/fuel with
exhaust in each stroke, resulting in poor combustion... I
wonder if a high ethanol fuel would be cleaner for a 2 stroke?

Mike

Michael Daly wrote:

On 13-Jun-2005, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

Displacement, quantity of
fuel, content of oil are more important.

Not to mention that you are mixing incoming air/fuel with
exhaust in each stroke, resulting in poor combustion... I
wonder if a high ethanol fuel would be cleaner for a 2 stroke?


What do 2-stroke mfr's say about E10 and oil mixtures?

Superficially, I'd think lubrication would be even more difficult.