On 10/02/2013 09:20, Tim Lamb wrote:

I'm pretty much retired. I think if rule breaking across Europe were
that blatant the UK agricultural press would be shouting very loudly.

Run by lazy journalists. Trade press is just printing press releases
from various companies with a few guest articles from someone with a
vested interest in selling something.

The press, including trade press, will only be interested in malpractice
when someone dies. The interest will only last for a few weeks, or until
the story falls off the front page of the daily mail.

As for trusting the British farming industry - how many products are
imported, minimally processed or packed, and then appear with a union
flag logo when they appear on the supermarket shelves?


--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

On 10/02/13 10:28, alan wrote:
On 10/02/2013 04:06, djc wrote:
On 10/02/13 00:51, Windmill wrote:
Can you tell horse meat from cow meat? I doubt if I can.


I once found, in an Italian supermarket in the Veneto, some Bresaola
which was the real thing: horse not beef. The flavour I would describe
as tasting much as a horse smells.


Doesn't it depend on what it has been fed in the weeks previous to death?

half in half really.

For example mallards always taste a little of duckweed and mud, but salt
water estuary ducks do not.

Trout can be muddy or delicate, depending on whether pond or stream
reared, bnut in all cases the basic meat TASTES the same, its just go
'added flavour' in terms of what it last ate.

Also how the meat is treated makes a lot of difference. Hung and
allowing the blood to drain takes a lot of the 'last weeks grass' taste
out of a carcase. And develops the 'gaminess'



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 10/02/2013 10:25, alan wrote:
On 10/02/2013 08:47, Rod Speed wrote:


Its only fraud by the supplier, not Findus etc.

If it's the general public that bought it then it is fraud by the end
retailer. The consumer hasn't got a contract with Findus or the Romanian
supplier of the horse.

Agreed about the contract being with the retailer and them being
responsible. But I can't help wonder at the possibility of legal action
further up the chain. If it were established that there had been
negligence by Findus then Donoghue v Stevenson might be applicable?

Indeed, that would surely be the situation in which, say, you or I
heated such a meal up and then served it to someone else such as might
happen in any home up and down the land. If the person to whom it had
been served suffers, say they have a horse meat allergy, then they might
well have a case against the retailer and possibly further up the chain.

--
Rod

On 10/02/13 10:41, alan wrote:
On 10/02/2013 09:20, Tim Lamb wrote:

I'm pretty much retired. I think if rule breaking across Europe were
that blatant the UK agricultural press would be shouting very loudly.

Run by lazy journalists. Trade press is just printing press releases
from various companies with a few guest articles from someone with a
vested interest in selling something.

Yes.


The press, including trade press, will only be interested in malpractice
when someone dies. The interest will only last for a few weeks, or until
the story falls off the front page of the daily mail.

As for trusting the British farming industry - how many products are
imported, minimally processed or packed, and then appear with a union
flag logo when they appear on the supermarket shelves?


Too many.

You should talk to Stewart Agnew, who is a farmer and the UKIP MEP for
- east Anglia I think.

http://www.ukip.org/content/ukip-pol...de-ukip-policy

All te new EU states have 'exemptions' to not destroy their farming till
they 'get up to speed' What that means is they don't comply. UK farmers
have to comply: They can't compete. NONE of the new nations CAN comply,
because if they did THEY couldn't compete either.

So cheap imported eggs are from force fed chickens in massively
overcrowded battery farms in Eastern Europe. And it seems burgers are
ground up old nags from Eastern Europe as well.

All exempted in the grounds of being unable to enter the EU and meet the
stringent regulations. Yet.

And the money is in faking the paperwork, so they do.

And if one burger is cheap horsemeat, the others, just like the banks,
have to pretend they don't know and put the same meat in, or lose market
share.






--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
I doubt it. Using a different meat isnt the
same thing as confusing meat and pasta etc.

Confusing?

Yep.

It's fraud we're talking about - not a mistake.

Its only fraud by the supplier, not Findus etc.

I just don’t believe that an operation like Findus
deliberately used horse meat instead of beef.

They chose the supplier - presumably on cost grounds. So it is up to them
to make sure their standards are complied to.

--
*Save the whale - I'll have it for my supper*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 09/02/2013 23:28, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 08 Feb 2013 23:32:32 +0000, dennis@home wrote:

Quorn as a veggi food, it has chicken egg in it.
It does actually say that somewhere but veggies don't read much.

I think you are confusing vegetarian and vegan. But then meat eaters are
not known for being particularly bright.

Not very vegetarian to eat eggs is it?
Not that vegetarians are picky.

A vegan is not supposed to use anything that exploits animals, not that
all/any of them do so. It must be hard if you avoid using shops, post,
manufactured goods etc. where workers wear clothing made from leather.


Quorn contains "rehydrated free range egg white". I note it doesn't say
"chicken egg" just "egg" ... B-)


Yes well I expect the mould the rest is made from outweighs the possible
sources of free range eggs.

PS quorn makes much better chicken curry than chicken does.

On Sat, 09 Feb 2013 18:18:11 -0500, S Viemeister wrote:

Depends how easy it is to ignore the rules. The horse meat thing
appears to me to have happened beacuse no one in the chain was
actually checking that that lump of meat labled "beef" was actually
beef.

Lump of meat? More likely a pile of mechanically recovered bits and
pieces.

I was being generous. Better MRM than BLBT.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Feb 9, 6:54 pm, "Rod Speed" wrote:
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message

...











"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/02/13 12:46, Dave Liquorice wrote:

What I find rather disturbing is that no one in the whole long
supply
chain, from abattoir to retail outlet, appears to have been
routinely
testing that a batch of meat or product called "beef" really is
100%
beef.

How would you know?

DNA testing is scarcely the sort of thing that people engage in
routinely.

Company X decides that in practice people can barely tell horse from
cow, stars mixing in horse, and the frozen mince goes off to
McDonkeys
suppliers, who use the sort of it in lasagne as well.

They undercut everyone else's prices, so guess who else start to
copy.

Soon, as with banks, 'everybody is doing it' throwing in the rats
squirrels, dogs, deer - anything that is or can reasonably be
described
as 'edible meat' goes in one end. and death burgers come out the
other.

And you thought Ankh Morpork was fictional.

Rat on a stick, eh? Yum!

Mate of mine always called it Kentucky Fried Rat back in the 60s

Does tend to stick in your mind a bit.

My missus insists that KFC stands for Kan't ****in' Cook ... :-)

Dunno, some do like it.

And some breed rat like things to eat too, particularly in south america.

Tch. Ignorance again Wodders.

We'll see...

That is "Cuy". Pronounced kwee.
Guinea pig to us Brits.

Wot I said, ****wit.

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , Arfa Daily
writes
Doesn't necessarily help, if the spray has spread systemically through
the plant, either via the leaves, or by the roots ...

There are rules attached to the use of agricultural sprays. Firstly, in
the case of accredited production, the decision to spray and the choice
of chemical must be by someone qualified to do so. The time, quantity
applied and weather/crop conditions must be recorded and made available
for inspection. From 2014 those of us still relying on *grandfather
rights* will be banned from spraying food crops which can then only be
done by accredited members of the NRoSO.

Clearly if someone wants to cheat it is still possible but the system is
open to checks.

-- Tim Lamb


That's all fine and dandy for growers like you in this country, but lots
of veg comes from all over Europe, where they may not be - how shall we
say - quite so 'accommodating' of the rules ... ?

I'm pretty much retired. I think if rule breaking across Europe were that
blatant the UK agricultural press would be shouting very loudly.

I doubt it, essentially because there wont be some operation like
Findus doing a recall.

Currently, apart from the horse/beef imbroglio they are only concerned
about the failure to fully implement the Sow stall ban.

That's just because the ****wit journos don't have a ****ing clue.

They should be doing it with olive oil alone.

alan wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Its only fraud by the supplier, not Findus etc.

If it's the general public that bought it then it is fraud by the end
retailer.

Wrong with the label that Findus put on it.

The consumer hasn't got a contract with Findus

Mindlessly superficial.

or the Romanian supplier of the horse.

alan wrote
Tim Lamb wrote

I'm pretty much retired. I think if rule breaking across Europe were
that blatant the UK agricultural press would be shouting very loudly.

Run by lazy journalists. Trade press is just printing press
releases from various companies with a few guest articles
from someone with a vested interest in selling something.

The press, including trade press, will only be
interested in malpractice when someone dies.

Have fun explaining the interest in the horse meat.

No one has died because of that.

The interest will only last for a few weeks, or until
the story falls off the front page of the daily mail.

As for trusting the British farming industry - how many products
are imported, minimally processed or packed, and then appear with
a union flag logo when they appear on the supermarket shelves?

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Rod Speed wrote

I doubt it. Using a different meat isnt the
same thing as confusing meat and pasta etc.

Confusing?

Yep.

It's fraud we're talking about - not a mistake.

Its only fraud by the supplier, not Findus etc.

I just don't believe that an operation like Findus
deliberately used horse meat instead of beef.

They chose the supplier - presumably on cost grounds. So it
is up to them to make sure their standards are complied to.

Sure, but if they don't, its not fraud, just another ****up.

In message , alan
writes
On 10/02/2013 09:20, Tim Lamb wrote:

I'm pretty much retired. I think if rule breaking across Europe were
that blatant the UK agricultural press would be shouting very loudly.

Run by lazy journalists. Trade press is just printing press releases
from various companies with a few guest articles from someone with a
vested interest in selling something.

FWi is current...

The press, including trade press, will only be interested in
malpractice when someone dies. The interest will only last for a few
weeks, or until the story falls off the front page of the daily mail.

Could the Romanians afford Bute?

As for trusting the British farming industry - how many products are
imported, minimally processed or packed, and then appear with a union
flag logo when they appear on the supermarket shelves?

Hmm. That seems a tad misdirected. I would think most home produced meat
is purchased on contract from abattoirs and packed/labelled on behalf of
the supermarkets. I think country of origin labelling may be banned by
the EU but not certain.

Red Tractor logo is UK only.



--
Tim Lamb

On 10/02/2013 18:15, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , alan
writes


Red Tractor logo is UK only.

Only 65% of the ingredients in a red tractor product need to be from a
certified source.

It's another con job by the British food industry to fool the public in
to believing the union flag logo means quality.

Until recently wouldn't Tesco and Finus claim that the ingredients in
their products were fully traceable.


--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

In message , Windmill
writes

Can you tell horse meat from cow meat? I doubt if I can.


Well, yes

Having had both on a plate at a BBQ, they are obviously different

Whether ANYBODY could tell the difference when its minced and heavily
spiced / enhanced in a ready meal? I'm not so sure

--
geoff

In message , Tim Watts
writes
On Sunday 10 February 2013 04:06 djc wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On 10/02/13 00:51, Windmill wrote:
Can you tell horse meat from cow meat? I doubt if I can.


I once found, in an Italian supermarket in the Veneto, some Bresaola
which was the real thing: horse not beef. The flavour I would describe
as tasting much as a horse smells.


Horse milk is nice (had it in Mongolia) - closer to cow's milk than goat's
is to cows.

Are you sure there wasn't just one large teat ?

--
geoff

On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 14:08:02 +0000, dennis@home wrote:

Quorn as a veggi food, it has chicken egg in it.
It does actually say that somewhere but veggies don't read much.

I think you are confusing vegetarian and vegan. But then meat eaters
are not known for being particularly bright.

Not very vegetarian to eat eggs is it?

Personally I draw a vague line at viable living things with a nervous
system. Commercial eggs are infertile but even if they were development
is stopped very early so no nervous system and they are no longer viable.
Never mind meat eaters are not known for being particularly bright so one
can't expect them to have really thought about where their bits of dead
animal come from.

Not that vegetarians are picky.

Seems that meat eaters are if they are getting upset about a bit of dead
horse on their plate. What is the difference between killing and eating a
pig, goat, cow, sheep or WHY and killing an eating a horse?

A vegan is not supposed to use anything that exploits animals, not that
all/any of them do so. It must be hard if you avoid using shops, post,
manufactured goods etc. where workers wear clothing made from leather.

Vegan is a bit loopy. IIRC a vegan diet does not provide all the
nutrition that the human body requires, some vitamins? These are found in
dairy produce.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In message
,
harry writes
On Feb 10, 12:58*am, (Windmill)
wrote:
"Dave Liquorice" writes:
On Fri, 08 Feb 2013 11:24:15 +0000, Lobster wrote:
So whereas I expect Findus Horse Lasagane is perfectly normal safe and
OK in some places within the EU (ie, prepared to the same rules and
regs as any food shipped to the UK), it obviously ain't in Blighty; and
imagine it's a case of the wrong sort of meat going down the wrong
assemble line somewhere.
And have the wrong label applied? Beef Lasagne should be made from beef
not horse. If horse is a more expensive meat than beef it ain't going to
be your "prime cuts fit for human consumption" that has been used and
mislabeled either.
What I find rather disturbing is that no one in the whole long supply
chain, from abattoir to retail outlet, appears to have been routinely
testing that a batch of meat or product called "beef" really is 100%
beef.
Why was this only really picked up by random food testing by a small
countries government FSA?
I'm glad I stopped eating meat 20+ years ago...

But many legumes need to be cooked vigorously for a few minutes to
destroy natural toxins.
Who tests that this has been properly done (to kidney beans, as an
example)?
Who checks for pesticide residues? In coffee beans, for example, now
that they're having problems with something called coffee rust?


The ones that are picked out of monkey **** should be OK.
Or was it cat ****?

Its civets Harry

The monkey would have died, right?

So would you if you saw the price

Got some in the kitchen cabinet


--
geoff

On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 19:13:47 +0000, alan wrote:

Until recently wouldn't Tesco and Finus claim that the ingredients in
their products were fully traceable.

Don't confuse traceable with what the physical thing actually is. The
paper trails all seem to have worked(*) and they all say "beef"...

(*) Just loook at convulted, multi-national, trail from Findus to
Romania.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 19:43:15 +0000, Dave Liquorice wrote:

(abuse deleted)

Seems that meat eaters are if they are getting upset about a bit of dead
horse on their plate. What is the difference between killing and eating
a pig, goat, cow, sheep or WHY and killing an eating a horse?

a) It's not what they were told they were getting.
b) By definition, its source was uncontrolled, and it may be adulterated/
drugged whatever.

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 10/02/2013 19:43, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 14:08:02 +0000, dennis@home wrote:



Seems that meat eaters are if they are getting upset about a bit of dead
horse on their plate. What is the difference between killing and eating a
pig, goat, cow, sheep or WHY and killing an eating a horse?

But is it horse from a certifiable source or some nag that been treated
with DDT for horse fly or crazing in the grounds of Chernobyl?

--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

On 10 Feb 2013 20:02:52 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

Seems that meat eaters are if they are getting upset about a bit of
dead horse on their plate. What is the difference between killing and
eating a pig, goat, cow, sheep or WHY and killing an eating a horse?

a) It's not what they were told they were getting.

This bit of the thread had wandered off into omnivore, vegitarian and
vegan diets BWTH. Yes it wasn't correctly labled but that doesn't make
the food inedible.

b) By definition, its source was uncontrolled, and it may be
adulterated/drugged whatever.

The source of the horse meat doesn't have to be the starting point of the
chain. With so many middlemen all wanting to make a profit I'm sure there
could be ways of adding extra mass to the product and adjusting the
paper work as it passed through.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In message , alan
writes
On 10/02/2013 18:15, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , alan
writes


Red Tractor logo is UK only.

Only 65% of the ingredients in a red tractor product need to be from a
certified source.

I don't know enough to argue this. You also need to be clear on
certification/assurance. There are a number of industry promoted
*assurance* schemes where farmers agree to abide by specific rules and
are inspected annually on compliance. The only market for un-assured
cereals was export when I last knew about it:-)

It's another con job by the British food industry to fool the public in
to believing the union flag logo means quality.

I think it is an attempt to circumnavigate EU rules on *country of
origin* labelling

Until recently wouldn't Tesco and Finus claim that the ingredients in
their products were fully traceable.

For sure!



--
Tim Lamb

On 10/02/2013 19:43, Dave Liquorice wrote:


Seems that meat eaters are if they are getting upset about a bit of dead
horse on their plate. What is the difference between killing and eating a
pig, goat, cow, sheep or WHY and killing an eating a horse?

Its not eat horse that's the problem, its not knowing what it is.
If the products had been labelled as horse meat there wouldn't be a problem.

On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 05:03:33 +1100, just as I was about to take a
herb, "Rod Speed" disturbed my reverie and
wrote:

than the animal being aware that its being killed.
So animals have an IQ higher than yours?
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).

You really do not have a clue about anatomy, physiology, etc.

You are just making yourself look daft.
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).

On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 04:55:26 +1100, just as I was about to take a
herb, "Rod Speed" disturbed my reverie and
wrote:

The consumer hasn't got a contract with Findus

Mindlessly superficial.

But amazingly 110% correct.
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).

On Sat, 09 Feb 2013 18:21:05 +0000, just as I was about to take a
herb, djc disturbed my reverie and wrote:

As horse would attract a premium over beef in places where it is
consumed as such, it seems improbable that the horse that found its way
to Findus was such a quality product.

Apparently, the price of horse meat in Romania has plummeted since the
use of horse and carts on the highways was made illegal recently.
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).

On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 09:33:16 +0000, just as I was about to take a
herb, polygonum disturbed my reverie and
wrote:

For as a baby he was very ill and was
given donkey milk - which, apparently, is about the closest to human
milk of all the reasonably common animals.

There is a tribe of nomadic Arabs who survive on camel's milk mixed
with camel's blood when crossing the desert.

They get the blood by nicking the veins in the neck.

No doubt 'Rod Slow' would approve as the camels would be fully aware
that they were not being killed LOL.
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).

On Sat, 9 Feb 2013 16:44:08 -0000, just as I was about to take a herb,
"Arfa Daily" disturbed my reverie and wrote:

I think that may be stretching the whole argument just a *little* far ... ?
Not at all. The statement is wide ranging and people will read
superficially as always. Natural flavourings can be made in a factory
for example.
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).

On Sat, 09 Feb 2013 23:28:44 +0000 (GMT), just as I was about to take
a herb, "Dave Liquorice" disturbed my
reverie and wrote:

I note it doesn't say
"chicken egg" just "egg" ... B-)
Exactly! Many people would see the word 'chicken' before the egg
without thinking of the type of egg. Alligator perhaps?
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).

On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 08:43:29 +0000, just as I was about to take a
herb, polygonum disturbed my reverie and
wrote:

Apparently free-range. Whatever type of avian!
Reptiles can be free-range and they lay eggs.
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).

In message , DrTeeth
writes
On Sat, 09 Feb 2013 23:28:44 +0000 (GMT), just as I was about to take
a herb, "Dave Liquorice" disturbed my
reverie and wrote:

I note it doesn't say
"chicken egg" just "egg" ... B-)
Exactly! Many people would see the word 'chicken' before the egg
without thinking of the type of egg.

A bit like assuming when someone uses trhe word "god" they are talking
about the judeo/xtian/moslamic (got that from YouTube) one

--
geoff

On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 09:20:17 +0000, just as I was about to take a
herb, Tim Lamb disturbed my reverie and
wrote:

I'm pretty much retired. I think if rule breaking across Europe were
that blatant the UK agricultural press would be shouting very loudly.

They have done in other spheres and it gets nowhere.
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).

On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 11:22:16 +0000, just as I was about to take a
herb, The Natural Philosopher disturbed my
reverie and wrote:

And the money is in faking the paperwork, so they do.

It is so much easier to do even in this country - story a few years
back about supermarkets faking fridge and freezer temperature records
- easier than checking every hour.
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).

On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 20:34:46 +0000, just as I was about to take a
herb, Tim Lamb disturbed my reverie and
wrote:

There are a number of industry promoted
*assurance* schemes where farmers agree to abide by specific rules and
are inspected annually on compliance.

An annual inspection is hardly rigorous. I'd say four unannounced
inspections a year at a minimum would be more the ticket.
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).

DrTeeth wrote
Rod Speed wrote

The consumer hasn't got a contract with Findus

Mindlessly superficial.

But amazingly 110% correct.

And completely irrelevant to who is perpetrating fraud
when the label does not say that horse meat is included.

On 10/02/2013 21:39, DrTeeth wrote:
On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 11:22:16 +0000, just as I was about to take a
herb, The Natural Philosopher disturbed my
reverie and wrote:

And the money is in faking the paperwork, so they do.

It is so much easier to do even in this country - story a few years
back about supermarkets faking fridge and freezer temperature records
- easier than checking every hour.

I have several times complained about shop refrigerators and freezers
which have no visible temperature indication.

And freezers which are over-loaded such that the food on top is thawing
- or even actually thawed out.

--
Rod

On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 21:19:51 +0000, DrTeeth wrote:

On Sat, 09 Feb 2013 23:28:44 +0000 (GMT), just as I was about to take a
herb, "Dave Liquorice" disturbed my
reverie and wrote:

I note it doesn't say
"chicken egg" just "egg" ... B-)
Exactly! Many people would see the word 'chicken' before the egg without
thinking of the type of egg. Alligator perhaps?

Sturgeon? .-)



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 10/02/2013 21:45, polygonum wrote:


And freezers which are over-loaded such that the food on top is thawing
- or even actually thawed out.


You may find that its actually re-freezing. Go into a supermarket at
2am and a lot stock in the freshly stocked freezers is nearly fully
thawed.

--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk