"dennis@home" wrote in message
b.com...
On 17/02/2013 02:41, Arfa Daily wrote:


"dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 16/02/2013 18:37, Rod Speed wrote:

The risk with the antibiotics isnt the residual antibiotic, its what
antibiotic resistant bacteria is in the food as a result of the use
of the antibiotics.

No it isn't.
the risk is that the small does of antibiotic you consume in the food
will lead to a resistant bacteria.


Funny old things, antibiotics. I recently had 7 weeks of the buggers to
shift an infection that got into my leg. The doc had to keep giving them
to me to ensure that every last trace of the infection had gone.
Apparently, this is why they tell you that you must complete the course,
even if what you are trying to fix appears to have cleared up, because
if you don't kill it all, what's left mutates, and becomes resistant to
the antibiotic that you were using, so you then have to start again with
a different one ... :-(

Arfa

That's why we have resistant strains of TB appearing..
the symptoms disappear quite quickly but the actual course lasts
weeks/months and people stop taking it too soon.


I was actually really surprised that the little *******s that you haven't
quite managed to kill off, can mutate into a resistant strain - for your
body at least - in just a couple of days. I was also surprised that what I
thought was a simple infection in my leg, could take seven weeks of heavy
duty oral antibiotics, to shift. I would have thought that after a couple of
weeks, the body's own defenses would have got a handle on what the bacteria
was, and that once this had occurred, the antibiotics would only be
assisting in finishing the job off ...

Arfa

"Windmill" wrote in message
...
"Arfa Daily" writes:



"dennis@home" wrote in message
aweb.com...
On 16/02/2013 18:37, Rod Speed wrote:

The risk with the antibiotics isnt the residual antibiotic, its what
antibiotic resistant bacteria is in the food as a result of the use
of the antibiotics.

No it isn't.
the risk is that the small does of antibiotic you consume in the food
will
lead to a resistant bacteria.


Funny old things, antibiotics. I recently had 7 weeks of the buggers to
shift an infection that got into my leg. The doc had to keep giving them
to
me to ensure that every last trace of the infection had gone. Apparently,
this is why they tell you that you must complete the course, even if what
you are trying to fix appears to have cleared up, because if you don't
kill
it all, what's left mutates, and becomes resistant to the antibiotic that
you were using, so you then have to start again with a different one ...
:-(

And what is worse, they're running out of 'different ones' which still
work.
They say that antibiotic resistance can even be spread from one type of
bacterium to another.

Strange thing is that they knew about resistance 50 years ago,
but didn't ensure that it was generally understood by patients.

That last isnt even possible.

Its hard enough to ensure that GPs wont ever prescribe
them for the common cold where they are useless.

"Windmill" wrote in message
...
"Rod Speed" writes:



"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...


"dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 16/02/2013 18:37, Rod Speed wrote:

The risk with the antibiotics isnt the residual antibiotic, its what
antibiotic resistant bacteria is in the food as a result of the use
of the antibiotics.

No it isn't.
the risk is that the small does of antibiotic you consume in the food
will lead to a resistant bacteria.


Funny old things, antibiotics. I recently had 7 weeks of the buggers to
shift an infection that got into my leg. The doc had to keep giving them
to me to ensure that every last trace of the infection had gone.
Apparently, this is why they tell you that you must complete the course,
even if what you are trying to fix appears to have cleared up, because
if
you don't kill it all, what's left mutates, and becomes resistant to the
antibiotic that you were using,

It already was to some extent because it took longer to kill
those that survived the less that full dose of the antibiotic.

so you then have to start again with a different one ... :-(

And if most don't bother to complete the course, we end up
with all of them resistant to all the antibiotics used and then
the **** really hits the fan.

Which is exactly what is happening now.

Yes, its essentially unavoidable, particularly in the 3rd world.

It unavoidable in the 1st and 2nd world too.

"Windmill" wrote in message
...
"Rod Speed" writes:

bert ] wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
Dave Liquorice wrote

What I find rather disturbing is that no one in the whole long supply
chain, from abattoir to retail outlet, appears to have been routinely
testing that a batch of meat or product called "beef" really is 100%
beef.

PCR assays for horse could be made cheap enough for
widespread surveillance, but it's not really the right approach.

It is when you want to rub the supplier's noses in the fact that
whatever they try fraud wise will get caught very quickly.

If you have to figure out after the fact what animal it came
from, you really don't know enough about the suppliers.

That last just isnt feasible with an EU wide system.

Its never going to be feasible to have your own staff
permanently inside all your suppliers EU wide and
even that wont work because they can be bribed etc.

What's the next yucky thing going to be
that we then have to check all meat for?

Animals getting killed outside inspected abattoirs etc.

You cannot inspect absolute quality into a system.

Depends entirely on what you mean by absolute quality.

You can certainly ensure that the animals are only ever killed
in the abattoir and no dead animal ever shows up there, say
from the truck that they show up in etc or having died in the field.

And if you mean a perfect food product, nothing will guarantee
that, even total end to end control over everything involved at all.

That depends on the integrity of everyone involved in the task.

No it doesn't with some stuff like whether no animal that has
died outside the abattoir never ends up in the output of the abattoir.

Bent truck driver picks up a load from the abattoir,
then makes a minor route diversion before delivery!

That’s not the integrity of everyone involved in the task,
just the truck driver.

On Feb 17, 10:09*pm, alan wrote:
On 17/02/2013 03:39, Rod Speed wrote:



But it isnt always possible to work out who come
down on HARD. You cant just execute everyone
involved in the entire chain, or ensure that they
can never work in the industry ever again either.

The Boss of Iceland has blamed _customers_ for adulterated beef products.

Perhaps if the directors of the high street retailers were prosecuted in
this case then perhaps they would be more careful where they sourced
their products.

He was talking a load of BS
Local councils have nothing to do with the NHS

On Feb 17, 11:25*pm, geoff wrote:
In message , Andy Champ
writes









On 17/02/2013 02:41, Arfa Daily wrote:
Funny old things, antibiotics. I recently had 7 weeks of the buggers to
shift an infection that got into my leg. The doc had to keep giving them
to me to ensure that every last trace of the infection had gone.
Apparently, this is why they tell you that you must complete the course,
even if what you are trying to fix appears to have cleared up, because
if you don't kill it all, what's left mutates, and becomes resistant to
the antibiotic that you were using, so you then have to start again with
a different one ... :-(

That's not _quite_ what happens.

If you take the course and stop early the ones that are left are the
ones most resistant to the antibiotics. *Stop taking the pills, and
give the bugs a chance to breed up, then you have a collection of
fairly resistant ones. Then there's more chance of one of them mutating
be resistant.

Meanwhile, what also happens is you get someone in south america, SE
Asia or wherever with his saucerfull of pills - antibiotics and others
who feel a botr off colour, so he pops a pill ... or maybe two and then
feels better, a perfect incubation medium for developing antibiotic
resistant strains of whatever you want to name

Yes seen that personally. You can go to cafes where they provide this
"service" on every table.

I wonder if Arfur's thought about this in his joint?

On Feb 18, 1:54*am, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
"dennis@home" wrote in message

b.com...









On 17/02/2013 02:41, Arfa Daily wrote:

"dennis@home" wrote in message
aweb.com...
On 16/02/2013 18:37, Rod Speed wrote:

The risk with the antibiotics isnt the residual antibiotic, its what
antibiotic resistant bacteria is in the food as a result of the use
of the antibiotics.

No it isn't.
the risk is that the small does of antibiotic you consume in the food
will lead to a resistant bacteria.

Funny old things, antibiotics. I recently had 7 weeks of the buggers to
shift an infection that got into my leg. The doc had to keep giving them
to me to ensure that every last trace of the infection had gone.
Apparently, this is why they tell you that you must complete the course,
even if what you are trying to fix appears to have cleared up, because
if you don't kill it all, what's left mutates, and becomes resistant to
the antibiotic that you were using, so you then have to start again with
a different one ... :-(

Arfa

That's why we have resistant strains of TB appearing..
the symptoms disappear quite quickly but the actual course lasts
weeks/months and people stop taking it too soon.

I was actually really surprised that the little *******s that you haven't
quite managed to kill off, can mutate into a resistant strain - for your
body at least - in just a couple of days. I was also surprised that what I
thought was a simple infection in my leg, could take seven weeks of heavy
duty oral antibiotics, to shift. I would have thought that after a couple of
weeks, the body's own defenses would have got a handle on what the bacteria
was, and that once this had occurred, the antibiotics would only be
assisting in finishing the job off ...

Arfa

It's because you're getting old.

On Feb 17, 5:43*am, (Windmill)
wrote:
"Dave Liquorice" writes:
On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 01:07:32 GMT, Windmill wrote:
But also do frequent widespread checks for the presence of a wide range
of noxious substances. Iodine 131 from Chernobyl (or Japan?), ...
Iodine 131 has a half life of about 8 days. There will be bugger all
Iodine 131 from Fukishima still about let alone Chernobyl.

But they give iodine tablets to those exposed.
What does I131 decay to? Is it also radioactive? If so, what in turn is
its half-life?

These are the ones you need to be worrying about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear...ssion_products

On 18/02/2013 00:12, Windmill wrote:
polygonum writes:

On 17/02/2013 05:43, Windmill wrote:

But they give iodine tablets to those exposed.
What does I131 decay to? Is it also radioactive? If so, what in turn is
its half-life?

The whole point of iodine tablets is to provide all the iodine that the
person's thyroid needs using known non-radio-active iodine. Thus the
thyroid will not take up any radio-active iodine in the environment.

Do bear in mind that thyroid hormone is then distributed to every cell
of the body so radio-active iodine is a wonderful way of giving people a
dose of radiation to their entire body! (Whereas a modest excess
iodine/iodide can often be excreted quite readily. And hopefully the
radio-active iodine would be so excreted.)

(Technically, they often use Potassium iodide.)

Understood, but there must be a feeling that there may still be enough
I131 around to cause trouble, even weeks or months later.
Otherwise they wouldn't bother.

Maybe my question should have been not to ask what I131 decays to, but
rather what decays to I131.

I 131 can be produced by at least:

Tellurium 130 hit by a neutron.
Uranium 235 fission.

And just a note about Potassium iodide - taking that is not without the
possibility of its own effects which can be very unpleasant and have
some danger associated. On balance it is clearly worth doing for most
people about to be exposed to I 131, but even then there may be exceptions.

--
Rod

On 17/02/2013 23:25, geoff wrote:
Meanwhile, what also happens is you get someone in south america, SE
Asia or wherever with his saucerfull of pills - antibiotics and others
who feel a botr off colour, so he pops a pill ... or maybe two and then
feels better, a perfect incubation medium for developing antibiotic
resistant strains of whatever you want to name

You should also read about "growth promoters" for livestock. And be
really worried

Andy

On 18/02/2013 00:12, Windmill wrote:
Maybe my question should have been not to ask what I131 decays to, but
rather what decays to I131.

Not a lot as far as I can tell. It's a product of the fission reaction,
and once that has been stopped (within minutes in Fukushima) Iodine
production stops too.

I131 is one of the reasons the reactors are hard to stop quickly;
there's a lot of energy released in the decay process, so the reactor
still makes heat even after fission has been stopped.

Andy

On 18/02/2013 07:42, harry wrote:
On Feb 17, 10:09 pm, alan wrote:
On 17/02/2013 03:39, Rod Speed wrote:



But it isnt always possible to work out who come
down on HARD. You cant just execute everyone
involved in the entire chain, or ensure that they
can never work in the industry ever again either.

The Boss of Iceland has blamed _customers_ for adulterated beef products.

Perhaps if the directors of the high street retailers were prosecuted in
this case then perhaps they would be more careful where they sourced
their products.

He was talking a load of BS
Local councils have nothing to do with the NHS


Local councils are responsible for care packages needed to get bed
blockers out of the NHS so they have a lot to do with what happens in
the NHS.

On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 13:59:21 +0000, just as I was about to take a
herb, djc disturbed my reverie and wrote:

The problem is what 'something else'
should you look for? If you suspect horse, then that it what you test
for, if pork that's another test, etc

Exactly. It could require hundreds of expansive tests. Duck-billed
platypus anyone?
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).

On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 10:31:50 -0000, just as I was about to take a
herb, "Arfa Daily" disturbed my reverie and
wrote:

as
the police forensic labs seem to manage to be able to separate the tiniest
traces of DNA from larger bulks.

DNA chromatography
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).

On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 01:07:32 GMT, just as I was about to take a herb,
lid (Windmill) disturbed my reverie and
wrote:

Maybe they could take just a few samples, every few months, and subject
them to rigorous analysis to identify every kind of DNA

Have you given some serious thoughts to the massive cost of this?
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).

On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 20:52:43 +0000, just as I was about to take a
herb, "dennis@home" disturbed my
reverie and wrote:

No it isn't.
the risk is that the small does of antibiotic you consume in the food
will lead to a resistant bacteria.

Exactly right.
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).

On Sun, 17 Feb 2013 02:41:14 -0000, just as I was about to take a
herb, "Arfa Daily" disturbed my reverie and
wrote:

Funny old things, antibiotics.

It's the bacteria that are the 'funny' things not the antibiotics.
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).

On Sun, 17 Feb 2013 21:44:12 +0000, just as I was about to take a
herb, "dennis@home" disturbed my
reverie and wrote:

That's why we have resistant strains of TB appearing..
the symptoms disappear quite quickly but the actual course lasts
weeks/months and people stop taking it too soon.

Not exactly. The tuberculosis bacteria can develop resistance very
easily that causes the problem, as well as the it's waxy coating that
impedes the ingress of the med's. This is why several antibiotics are
used at the same time. Some bacteria NEVER become resistant to some
antibiotics (beta haemolytic streps to Pen G for e.g.).
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 01:54:54 -0000, just as I was about to take a
herb, "Arfa Daily" disturbed my reverie and
wrote:

I was actually really surprised that the little *******s that you haven't
quite managed to kill off, can mutate into a resistant strain - for your
body at least - in just a couple of days. I was also surprised that what I
thought was a simple infection in my leg, could take seven weeks of heavy
duty oral antibiotics, to shift. I would have thought that after a couple of
weeks, the body's own defenses would have got a handle on what the bacteria
was, and that once this had occurred, the antibiotics would only be
assisting in finishing the job off ...

Best to keep flipping the burgers.
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).

On Sun, 17 Feb 2013 23:25:52 +0000, just as I was about to take a
herb, geoff disturbed my reverie and wrote:

Meanwhile, what also happens is you get someone in south america, SE
Asia or wherever with his saucerfull of pills - antibiotics and others
who feel a botr off colour, so he pops a pill ... or maybe two and then
feels better, a perfect incubation medium for developing antibiotic
resistant strains of whatever you want to name

Best to keep away from the prostitutes who take continual antibiotics
too ;-).
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 00:07:56 GMT, just as I was about to take a herb,
lid (Windmill) disturbed my reverie and
wrote:

They say that antibiotic resistance can even be spread from one type of
bacterium to another.

It is a fact, not a 'they say'.

Strange thing is that they knew about resistance 50 years ago, but
didn't ensure that it was generally understood by patients.

Patients do not need to understand it, they just need to do what they
are told by those that do.
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:47:38 +0000, just as I was about to take a
herb, Tim Streater disturbed my reverie and
wrote:

Are you a grocer? You 'seem to have an exce's's of apo'strophe's.

shakes head in shame, especially as I know how to use them
correctly.
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).

On Friday, February 15, 2013 9:11:57 PM UTC, Andy Champ wrote:
On 15/02/2013 14:35, wrote:

PCR assays for horse could be made cheap enough for widespread surveillance,

but it's not really the right approach. If you have to figure out after the fact

what animal it came from, you really don't know enough about the suppliers.



What's the next yucky thing going to be that we then have to check all meat for?



I'm not that bothered whether my beefburger turns out to be horse or

pork, so long as it is fit for human consumption. So no bute etc.

I won;t want to pay 10p for a beefburger that is actually a horseburger I could have brought for 5p if the right label had been put on the box.

On 18/02/2013 00:12, Windmill wrote:
polygonum writes:

On 17/02/2013 05:43, Windmill wrote:

But they give iodine tablets to those exposed.
What does I131 decay to? Is it also radioactive? If so, what in turn is
its half-life?

The whole point of iodine tablets is to provide all the iodine that the
person's thyroid needs using known non-radio-active iodine. Thus the
thyroid will not take up any radio-active iodine in the environment.

Do bear in mind that thyroid hormone is then distributed to every cell
of the body so radio-active iodine is a wonderful way of giving people a
dose of radiation to their entire body! (Whereas a modest excess
iodine/iodide can often be excreted quite readily. And hopefully the
radio-active iodine would be so excreted.)

(Technically, they often use Potassium iodide.)

Understood, but there must be a feeling that there may still be enough
I131 around to cause trouble, even weeks or months later.
Otherwise they wouldn't bother.

Maybe my question should have been not to ask what I131 decays to, but
rather what decays to I131.

Cadmium 131 and 132, and Tellurium. (presumably from the cladding of
fuel rods rather than anything directly in the uranium decay chain)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 18/02/2013 12:35, DrTeeth wrote:
On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 01:54:54 -0000, just as I was about to take a
herb, "Arfa Daily" disturbed my reverie and
wrote:

I was actually really surprised that the little *******s that you haven't
quite managed to kill off, can mutate into a resistant strain - for your
body at least - in just a couple of days. I was also surprised that what I
thought was a simple infection in my leg, could take seven weeks of heavy
duty oral antibiotics, to shift. I would have thought that after a couple of
weeks, the body's own defenses would have got a handle on what the bacteria
was, and that once this had occurred, the antibiotics would only be
assisting in finishing the job off ...

Best to keep flipping the burgers.

Huh?

Is this some obscure reference to horse meat, or to the occupation of
Arfa's wife that I am missing?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

DrTeeth wrote
djc wrote

The problem is what 'something else' should
you look for? If you suspect horse, then that
it what you test for, if pork that's another test, etc

Exactly.

Fraid not.

It could require hundreds of expansive tests.

Nope, just a check to see if there is any animal
DNA other than what is claimed to be in the food
being tested at a high enough level to matter.

Duck-billed platypus anyone?

They are so uncommon and hard to catch that there
isnt any point in testing for those specifically.

"DrTeeth" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 20:52:43 +0000, just as I was about to take a
herb, "dennis@home" disturbed my
reverie and wrote:

No it isn't.
the risk is that the small does of antibiotic you consume in the food
will lead to a resistant bacteria.

Exactly right.

Fraid not. Utterly mangled in fact.

"DrTeeth" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:47:38 +0000, just as I was about to take a
herb, Tim Streater disturbed my reverie and
wrote:

Are you a grocer? You 'seem to have an exce's's of apo'strophe's.

shakes head in shame, especially as I know how to use them
correctly.

A Jap would at least have the decency to disembowel itself.

Don't make a mess of the carpet...

On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 06:34:24 +1100, just as I was about to take a
herb, "Rod Speed" disturbed my reverie and
wrote:

A Jap would at least have the decency to disembowel itself.

:-)
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).

On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 06:31:53 +1100, just as I was about to take a
herb, "Rod Speed" disturbed my reverie and
wrote:

Fraid not. Utterly mangled in fact.

Mangled in your lack of pharmacological knowledge I'm afraid. Best way
(not the only way mind) to encourage the development of bacterial
resistance to antibiotics is the ingestion of sub-optimal doses.
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 16:52:51 +0000, just as I was about to take a
herb, John Rumm disturbed my reverie
and wrote:

Is this some obscure reference to horse meat, or to the occupation of
Arfa's wife that I am missing?

He knows a lot more about burgers than pharmacology!
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).

"DrTeeth" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 06:31:53 +1100, just as I was about to take a
herb, "Rod Speed" disturbed my reverie and
wrote:

Fraid not. Utterly mangled in fact.

Mangled in your lack of pharmacological knowledge I'm afraid.

Says he carefully deleting from the quoting what hairy utterly
mangled and you pig ignorantly claimed was exactly right.

Best way (not the only way mind) to encourage the development of
bacterial resistance to antibiotics is the ingestion of sub-optimal doses.

Pity he wasn't actually discussing the ingestion of sub optimal doses.

In message , alan
writes
On 17/02/2013 03:39, Rod Speed wrote:


But it isnt always possible to work out who come
down on HARD. You cant just execute everyone
involved in the entire chain, or ensure that they
can never work in the industry ever again either.

The Boss of Iceland has blamed _customers_ for adulterated beef products.

Perhaps if the directors of the high street retailers were prosecuted
in this case then perhaps they would be more careful where they sourced
their products.

No he didn't. What he said was that a procurement process based purely
on lowest price would drive down quality and by inference encourage the
less scrupulous to cut corners. That happens in all supply chains not
just food.
--
bert

On 18/02/2013 20:23, DrTeeth wrote:
On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 16:52:51 +0000, just as I was about to take a
herb, John Rumm disturbed my reverie
and wrote:

Is this some obscure reference to horse meat, or to the occupation of
Arfa's wife that I am missing?

He knows a lot more about burgers than pharmacology!

Hardly unique I am sure.

The more observant would note that Arfa is an electronic engineer whose
wife and daughter run a diner - but then that tends to make the one
attempting to condescend look rather more of a knob.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 18/02/2013 17:05, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:

On 18/02/2013 00:12, Windmill wrote:
polygonum writes:

On 17/02/2013 05:43, Windmill wrote:

But they give iodine tablets to those exposed.
What does I131 decay to? Is it also radioactive? If so, what in
turn is
its half-life?

The whole point of iodine tablets is to provide all the iodine that
the
person's thyroid needs using known non-radio-active iodine. Thus the
thyroid will not take up any radio-active iodine in the environment.

Do bear in mind that thyroid hormone is then distributed to every cell
of the body so radio-active iodine is a wonderful way of giving
people a
dose of radiation to their entire body! (Whereas a modest excess
iodine/iodide can often be excreted quite readily. And hopefully the
radio-active iodine would be so excreted.)

(Technically, they often use Potassium iodide.)

Understood, but there must be a feeling that there may still be enough
I131 around to cause trouble, even weeks or months later.
Otherwise they wouldn't bother.

Maybe my question should have been not to ask what I131 decays to, but
rather what decays to I131.

Cadmium 131 and 132, and Tellurium. (presumably from the cladding of
fuel rods rather than anything directly in the uranium decay chain)

I-131 decays to Xenon-131 (stable). According to Winky, I-131 is a major
decay product of uranium fission.

Do you have a reference, I could not find iodine in any of the Uranium
decay chains I looked at - perhaps I am missing one?

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 18/02/2013 22:44, John Rumm wrote:


Do you have a reference, I could not find iodine in any of the Uranium
decay chains I looked at - perhaps I am missing one?

I too could not find a nicely presented decay chain - but there are at
least hundreds of references to I 131 coming from fission of U 235 -
about 2.8% seems to go in that direction. (Not sure is that is mass or
number of atoms.)

--
Rod

On 18/02/2013 22:44, John Rumm wrote:

Do you have a reference, I could not find iodine in any of the Uranium
decay chains I looked at - perhaps I am missing one?

It's not in the decay chain. But if you hit U235 with a neutron it can
be one of the fission products.

Andy

John Rumm wrote:
On 18/02/2013 17:05, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:

On 18/02/2013 00:12, Windmill wrote:
polygonum writes:

On 17/02/2013 05:43, Windmill wrote:

But they give iodine tablets to those exposed.
What does I131 decay to? Is it also radioactive? If so, what in
turn is
its half-life?

The whole point of iodine tablets is to provide all the iodine that
the
person's thyroid needs using known non-radio-active iodine. Thus the
thyroid will not take up any radio-active iodine in the environment.

Do bear in mind that thyroid hormone is then distributed to every cell
of the body so radio-active iodine is a wonderful way of giving
people a
dose of radiation to their entire body! (Whereas a modest excess
iodine/iodide can often be excreted quite readily. And hopefully the
radio-active iodine would be so excreted.)

(Technically, they often use Potassium iodide.)

Understood, but there must be a feeling that there may still be enough
I131 around to cause trouble, even weeks or months later.
Otherwise they wouldn't bother.

Maybe my question should have been not to ask what I131 decays to, but
rather what decays to I131.

Cadmium 131 and 132, and Tellurium. (presumably from the cladding of
fuel rods rather than anything directly in the uranium decay chain)

I-131 decays to Xenon-131 (stable). According to Winky, I-131 is a major
decay product of uranium fission.

Do you have a reference, I could not find iodine in any of the Uranium
decay chains I looked at - perhaps I am missing one?

I'm not convinced that I131 is a major decay product of nuclear fission but
I'm open to correction. Nuclear Physics is over 30 years in the past for
me. I135 is a common product of fission, being produced by beta decay of
Tellurium 135. And I125 and 129 are also produced in significant
quantities, but I can't recall how.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

On 18/02/2013 23:07, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:

On 18/02/2013 17:05, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:

On 18/02/2013 00:12, Windmill wrote:
polygonum writes:

On 17/02/2013 05:43, Windmill wrote:

Maybe my question should have been not to ask what I131 decays
to, but
rather what decays to I131.

Cadmium 131 and 132, and Tellurium. (presumably from the cladding of
fuel rods rather than anything directly in the uranium decay chain)

I-131 decays to Xenon-131 (stable). According to Winky, I-131 is a
major
decay product of uranium fission.

Do you have a reference, I could not find iodine in any of the Uranium
decay chains I looked at - perhaps I am missing one?

Only the first para of:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodine_131


Its not a product of decay so you are looking for the wrong thing.

On 18/02/2013 23:12, Andy Champ wrote:
On 18/02/2013 22:44, John Rumm wrote:

Do you have a reference, I could not find iodine in any of the Uranium
decay chains I looked at - perhaps I am missing one?

It's not in the decay chain. But if you hit U235 with a neutron it can
be one of the fission products.

Yup that seems to be the ticket - a result of irradiation rather than
natural decay.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/