This summer I shall be cooking outdoors in my home built stone bread
oven -but it won't be limited to bread. How many who think that an Aga is no
good would even understand that process? You think you might by Googling
perhaps but have you done it? I have. It's the most satisfying cooking there
is.

Mary
My favourite cooking is on an open fire between 2 stones - basically a
ground level barbeque. You need reasonable weather and a supply of
booze also. We did it a lot when we lived in a primitive cottage in
Wales and all we had was a Rayburn. Our kids grew up thinking that's
what everybody did!

cheers

Jacob

On 15 Jan 2006 08:23:56 -0800, wrote:

Anyway Andy, nobody would argue that you like your Aga and I'm sure you
can cook on it really well. But where you are p*ing into the wind is in
suggesting that they are in any way economical or practical. Don't let
that spoil your enjoyment.
Steam traction engines attract enthusiasts who spend many harmless
hours having innocent fun with them but nobody suggests that they are a
practical alternative to a modern vehicle.

I don't see it in that way.

Essentially, it's an energy store that I can heat cheaply and which
adds to the space heating. The cooking is effectively free.

In terms of practicality, again no real problems by any way of
measuring that I can think of. For example, if anything, I need to
spend less time standing at the Aga than I did at the hob.



Could be wrong here though - any minute now some bearded old chaps in
boiler suits could be angrily stabbing at their laptops with oily
fingers!

:-)

cheers
Jacob
PS Come to think when I had a solid fuel Rayburn a boiler suit was an
essential accessory - do they come with the kit if you buy a new one?


Interesting point. You do get a pack of cleaning materials and a
brush though :-)


--

..andy

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:19:04 +0000, Peter Parry
wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 14:26:09 +0000, Owain
wrote:


Jam-making? Although I understand that Agas aren't great at concentrated
batches of on-the-hob cooking like jam-making because the plates cool down.

They are not really very good at any sustained cooking (which is one
of the reasons they are rarely found in commercial kitchens) because
the maximum heat input is only about 5 times the idle rate and once
you have lost the energy stored in the mass it takes time to recover.
This is simply a characteristic of all stored heat devices.


More correctly they are not very good at sustained cooking on the top,
although the modulating burner types make a big difference to that.

When cooking in the ovens there is very little temperature drop.


A commercial kitchen has a different pattern of use because you have
an arbitrary number of people to cater for arriving at arbitrary
times, normally.


--

..andy

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:30:45 GMT, "Ophelia" wrote:




Thanks Andy but your description of how you have to make jam was enough
to put me off. I make enough jam in the summer time for it to matter!


The method's strightforward enough, and results identical to or better
than achievable on a hob.



--

..andy

wrote in message
oups.com...
My favourite cooking is on an open fire between 2 stones - basically a
ground level barbeque. You need reasonable weather and a supply of
booze also. We did it a lot when we lived in a primitive cottage in
Wales and all we had was a Rayburn. Our kids grew up thinking that's
what everybody did!

Fascinating) Do tell us more

Ophelia

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:30:33 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:



Well, that's enough reading. Matthew Fort (whoever he is) obviously doesn't
understand about roasting meat and baking Yorkshire. Perhaps he's a
southerner.


Writes for the Guardian - that's even worse :-)





Actually I don't, I know. And it's not difficult - if you know what you're
doing. People who need to know that an oven is 125C or some other precise
temperature must be cooking straight from Cooking for Dummies by Ms Smith or
Master
Oliver. I learned to cook from my mother and later at school - a very long
time ago. My skill is based on understanding food and processes and being
able to use an oven is a very small part of that.

Exactly.




This summer I shall be cooking outdoors in my home built stone bread
oven -but it won't be limited to bread. How many who think that an Aga is no
good would even understand that process? You think you might by Googling
perhaps but have you done it? I have. It's the most satisfying cooking there
is.


What else are you planning to cook in it?

I suppose in part, this is the same notion as pizza being better from
a proper wood fired oven.?



--

..andy

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:34:25 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .




I'm not sure why people eat stodgy rubbish like steamed puddings
anyway,

Oh Andy! Steamed puddings are anything BUT stodgy - they're light and airy
(if made properly) and I wish I could afford to eat them more often. Nothing
todo with finances - the waistline you understand ...


Even like that, which we can do, they still have too high a glycaemic
load for me to eat more than a tiny amount, so typically we don't
bother with them.




We periodically do an overnight roast in the simmering oven and it
always works very well. Obviously one should always thaw it first
and check with a meat thermometer and start and end of cooking. THat
is the case regardless of the method of cooking.

Why a thermometer?


In the case of meat, I don't like it to be overcooked, although
obviously in the case of pork or poultry, one has to be sure that it
is enough.



--

..andy

On 15 Jan 2006 08:44:34 -0800, wrote:



This summer I shall be cooking outdoors in my home built stone bread
oven -but it won't be limited to bread. How many who think that an Aga is no
good would even understand that process? You think you might by Googling
perhaps but have you done it? I have. It's the most satisfying cooking there
is.

Mary
My favourite cooking is on an open fire between 2 stones - basically a
ground level barbeque. You need reasonable weather and a supply of
booze also. We did it a lot when we lived in a primitive cottage in
Wales and all we had was a Rayburn. Our kids grew up thinking that's
what everybody did!

Good thing too. THey should... :-)


--

..andy

wrote:

My favourite cooking is on an open fire between 2 stones - basically a
ground level barbeque. You need reasonable weather and a supply of
booze also. We did it a lot when we lived in a primitive cottage in
Wales and all we had was a Rayburn. Our kids grew up thinking that's
what everybody did!

In rural Italy it is, more or less what everyone does. Large log basket
with a blazing fire, rake out the ashes and put a trivet over them.
Grill your pork chops, arrosticini, lamb steaks or whatever.

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 15:53:15 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 14:49:31 +0000, Peter Parry
wrote:

As the Aga lacks any form of controllable hob, has wildly fluctuating
oven temperatures

Not true in the case of a modern gas model since the burner modulates.

The burner can modulate to its hearts content - it simply doesn't
have enough power. The maximum output is only about 5kW which is to
be expected for the design - it isn't meant to be a fast recovery
device. With both of the insulated lids on the top open the cooker
looses nearly an extra 7kW/hr on top of the standing loss of 1kW and
in addition to the heat loss in the ovens through cold items being
put into them and doors being opened (or left open to cool them
down). The burner can't keep up (and of course isn't designed to).

and has no grill there are many things which can't
be done on it as well as on a conventional oven. Serious grilling of
any sort and stir frying are two obvious examples

Not really. You can grill very effectively in the roasting oven.

You can oven grill, jamming a pan against the roof of the oven isn't
my definition of grilling. It works adequately for some things like
sausages but is no different from cooking them in a tray in a
conventional oven. The maximum temperature you can achieve from the
oven roof is much lower than that of a normal grill.

I have no difficulty with stir frying either, although I tend to do so
very rapidly using a pre-heated cast iron pan and that works well.

I find the wrist action needed with a wok particularly difficult to
master with a cast iron pan - is there a special Aga bodybuilding
course? :-)

Anybody who believes anything written in that rag is naive anyway and
to rely on *anything* written by a journalist is questionable in the
extreme.

Oh, I'd agree with that - except that both articles match my
experience with an Aga quite accurately.

He is referencing a cooker that his mother must have had at least 50
years ago, probably rather more.

The design hasn't changed much except that the internal "thermal
mass" has been pared down over the years so newer ones are not quite
as effective heat stores as older ones. The oil version still uses a
very old wick burner and the "modulating" gas version is actually
only a rather crude thermo mechanical valve with the over riding
advantage of being simple and reliable rather than efficient.

Another good article is at
http://www.ovolopublishing.co.uk/hou...-aga-help.html

Most of which is untrue - e.g. servicing,

Those are Aga's recommended servicing times - twice yearly for oil
burners, annually for gas versions. I don't know a single Aga owner
who doesn't know the name of their "man who comes to service it". I
don't know a single conventional cooker owner who has ever had to
have one routinely serviced.

Most of the other comments are in line with my own experience
(although some, such as the aluminium pan scare, are rather OTT).

I'm not sure why people eat stodgy rubbish like steamed puddings
anyway,

You should try a proper one, not an Aga boiled to death stodgy one.
A light steamed sponge is most adequate and an apple dumpling a
treat.

In terms of a more meaningful comparison of steaming a
pudding on a hob vs. using the Aga simmering oven and not needing to
do anything for some time, the latter is a lot easier.

Conventional cooker - "Put pan on hob, when water boils check level,
put lid on, reduce to simmer and boil for 1 hr".

Aga - "Boil hard on the boiling plate for 10 minutes, before moving
to the simmering plate for a further 20 minutes. Check to see if it
needs topping ... After this initial 30 minute start, transfer the
whole pan, water and all, to the simmering oven for 2 1/2 hours"

I'm not sure how you can describe the second process as "a lot
easier".

We discovered this flaw while trying to cook a
piece of pork shoulder at 70C for 12 hours. At such a low
temperature, a 10C drop meant that the meat would not cook. In fact,
we soon worked out that the temperature fluctuations were up to 25%
in either direction, and when my wife telephoned Aga to inquire about
this, she was told that it was quite normal."

Again, one can only conclude that he or she had an old model or not a
gas one.

Or one can conclude more reasonably that this is actually a well
known and widely acknowledged characteristic of such devices. I'm
beginning to suspect the one you have is an escaped experimental
model using Tardis technology it differs so much from all the others
in the world.

We periodically do an overnight roast in the simmering oven and it
always works very well.

That's what I said - Haybox cooking, I've always said they are good
at that.

Obviously the temperature in an oven drops when the door is opened,
but it goes back up again very quickly because the heat stored in the
thermal mass of the cast iron is hugely more than that required to
heat the air.

"If cooking is carried out, then the ‘store’ is robbed and the
indicator will drop, taking several hours possibly to stabilise back
to the centre line position." (Aga).

Why do so many people (other than yourself) have problems with heat
loss if the thermal mass alone is sufficiently great to compensate
for opening and closing the doors? The thermal mass is also not as
great as some think. A 4 cooker oven weighs about half a tonne but
most of this weight is the castings outside the insulation layer.

If a joint is being cooked over a 10-12 hour period, there is no way
that there can be a 10 degree or 25% drop in temperature due to oven
doors or lids being opened.

Blumenthal is noted for his lack of scientific knowledge and
imprecision in his cooking I suppose. I doubt if he has much
experience of cookers either.

Who knows? Either he was using an old Aga or one without modulating
heat source,

Most modern Agas don't have a modulating heat source.

or was trying to use it like a gas hob.

Possibly, he isn't the most intellectually flexible chef is he?

I prefer to stick with my own experiences of what I know works with
what I have.

What you have seems to differ considerably from all other Agas. Aga
put the quiescent heat loss from their ovens at 1kW, yours looses
700W. Aga quote weekly gas consumption for a 4 oven model at 527kW
per week, yours seems to use much less. Aga quote the maximum power
output of the gas burner at 5kW - yours seems capable of much more.
I'm increasingly certain it must be from an alternate dimension or
have a small nuclear core inside it.


--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

Andy Hall wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 14:07:26 +0000, Steve Firth
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 12:45:32 +0000, Steve Firth
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:

There are, however, a few small country house hotels around which do
use an Aga for cooking because their customers appreciate it.
Name one.

If you look with Google, you will easily find several.
Oh look, it's dIMM.

Name one or admit you lied.


From the first couple of pages.....


http://www.brackenhousehotel.com/

Eight bedrooms.

http://www.cutthorne.com/

Three bedrooms.

http://www.northcotemanor.com/index.htm

"What’s more Northcote is the only Michelin starred restaurant in the UK
to have fitted an Aga cooker"

So no need to go much further eh? The only one, it's in Lancashire where
the food is ****e anyway and people would eat a dead dog garnished with
baked beans.

And the rest of the places, indeed this one as well are all bed and
breakfast establishments.

Do you want treatment for that ragged wound in your foot.

700W. Aga quote weekly gas consumption for a 4 oven model at 527kW
per week, yours seems to use much less. Aga quote the maximum power

Strewth 527kW per week? Our last (typical) gas bill is for 336kW per
QUARTER and we do a fair amount of cooking - not as much as some on
this thread but more than the average household I'd guess.

cheers
Jacob

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 17:27:29 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

THe 700W or so output of the Aga is simply added to the heat from the
CH, so that in effect it is an additional heat source for space
heating. As a consequence, the CH boiler is running at a lower output
than it otherwise would.

In terms of the efficiency of use for space heating, I doubt whether
there is much of a difference in terms of what goes out of the flue
for either heat source.

Hi,

True, but if the Aga isn't room sealed then the ventilation
requirements will be fairly genereous.

cheers,
Pete.

So no need to go much further eh? The only one, it's in Lancashire where
the food is ****e anyway and people would eat a dead dog garnished with
baked beans.
Don't knock it if you haven't tried it! Could be worse - last time I
was in Lancashire I tried a Burger King.

cheers
Jacob

wrote in message
oups.com...
So no need to go much further eh? The only one, it's in Lancashire
where
the food is ****e anyway and people would eat a dead dog garnished
with
baked beans.
Don't knock it if you haven't tried it! Could be worse - last time I
was in Lancashire I tried a Burger King.

LOL

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:38:47 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:00:39 +0000, Peter Parry
wrote:

Ah, I didn't realise you had moved to Stornoway.

No, although I sometimes think that it would be nice.

I've spent several months there - I'd advise having one leg shortened
before going as it makes leaning into the wind much easier.

The plates are substantially larger, and one can easily fit pans partly on or partly off them.

Really good - one part burned the other cold.

Not unless you are incompetent. It's pretty hard to burn something
on the simmering plate.

It's rather easy to do it on the other though.

You can slide a pan to a certain position and pretty much leave it -
for example simmering milk with zero risk of it boiling over.
Same with rice or pasta.

You can pile them on the simmering plate and they won't boil over -
that's simply because they won't boil at all. On the boiling plate
they will boil over. Putting them bit on one and a bit on the other
and playing slidey pans until they all obtain a form of equilibrium
is an interesting but futile way of spending your time.

Hob time is relatively short in most cases because usually one
initially boils the item there, transfers it to the simmering oven and
then if need be, back to the top.

Of course - one gets bored with sliding them around.

One of the more
impressive fires I once went to was someone who had tried making a
large amount of jam on an Aga like device and had gone to answer the
phone(I couldn't tell if it was a real Aga or not as by that stage
most of the kitchen was lying on top of it.)

One has to wonder what on earth he was doing. It would be pretty
difficult to achieve that, even for those of Darwinian stupidity.

It is remarkably easy, Agas actually account for far more fires than
you would expect from the number in use. You put something on the
boiling plate and forget it for a bit. With potentially about 5kW
available things go from cold to boiling over and ignition very
quickly.


In the Aga you actually almost a continuum from bottom left to top
right. I've measured it. In a given oven, there is, through
convection, a difference between top and bottom.

Either it is an efficient heat store - in which case there will be
thermal equilibrium all around each stove or it isn't - in which case
the heat loss will generate a thermal gradient proportional to the
rate of heat loss. You can't have it both ways (or if you want to
please explain how it can happen!).

The
thing is so useless you can't even bake a decent fruit cake in the
two oven version without buying an accessory "Baking box".

I don't know where you got that from, but I've never heard of it.

Aga:- "If you want to cook large cakes which take more than 45
minutes to cook, such as fruit cake, Madeira cake, cherry cake, etc.,
with a two oven Aga you should invest in an Aga Cakebaker."

"On a two-oven Aga, the Aga Cakebaker is used for cooking large
cakes...While you are making your cake and lining the tin you preheat
the empty outer container and lid on the floor of the roasting oven.

When you are ready to bake the cake, place it in the carrier, and
move the Cakebaker to the simmering plate while you gently lower the
carrier and cake in. Make sure the tin is perfectly flat in the
carrier or you will have a lop-sided cake. Replace the lid and return
to the floor of the roasting oven. Lower the simmering plate lid and
cook in the normal way."

Can you identify the accessory on the Aga Cookshop site?

http://www.agacookshop.co.uk/epages/agacookshop.storefront/43ca915b0095baf42743c35c4d1006c4/Product/View/AG236


It might do in a coal or old oil one. It changes very little in a
modern gas one.

The "modern" gas one dates from 1968 (upgraded 1993). I suppose in
Aga terms that is modern.

Aga "technique" is very simple and takes about 30 seconds to learn.
I did go on an Aga cooking course (paid for by the owner who thought
it was essential) and sat through a dreary day the highlight of which
comprised instructions on drying labradors in it.

.... and added bonus then.

Have you ever tasted dried labrador? Quite inedible.

Indeed, but not many meals require the expenditure of anything
remotely like 10kW/hr of energy.

It doesn't need to be for an hour though. If you add up having 3-4
burners plus an oven running, you are using 10kW easily.

Indeed but it usually isn't for long so the effect isn't particularly
severe (unless on chooses to do a full roast dinner on a July
evening).

No - that's effective. However something isn't efficient if it is
putting out a kilowatt of energy non-stop every hour of every day
whether it is needed or not. You may find you need a 1kW heater
going all day every day I suggest that most would not. That alone
makes the device inefficient.

I was really talking about 700W.

I appreciate that, but your Aga appears to be especially frugal, I
was using figures from Aga.

If you think about it, many people have that sort of figure in
lighting and appliances.

All the more reason not to put another 0.7/1.0 kW/hr on top.


--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 17:41:18 +0000, Peter Parry
wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 15:53:15 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 14:49:31 +0000, Peter Parry
wrote:

As the Aga lacks any form of controllable hob, has wildly fluctuating
oven temperatures

Not true in the case of a modern gas model since the burner modulates.

The burner can modulate to its hearts content - it simply doesn't
have enough power.

It does fo rthe intended method of use.


The maximum output is only about 5kW which is to
be expected for the design - it isn't meant to be a fast recovery
device. With both of the insulated lids on the top open the cooker
looses nearly an extra 7kW/hr on top of the standing loss of 1kW and
in addition to the heat loss in the ovens through cold items being
put into them and doors being opened (or left open to cool them
down). The burner can't keep up (and of course isn't designed to).

This is irrelevant because it isn't used in that way.




and has no grill there are many things which can't
be done on it as well as on a conventional oven. Serious grilling of
any sort and stir frying are two obvious examples

Not really. You can grill very effectively in the roasting oven.

You can oven grill, jamming a pan against the roof of the oven isn't
my definition of grilling. It works adequately for some things like
sausages but is no different from cooking them in a tray in a
conventional oven.

Yes it is. At the top of the roasting oven the heat radiated is
certainly adequate for browning. If you want to char things, that's
another matter, but I don't want to wreck food.


The maximum temperature you can achieve from the
oven roof is much lower than that of a normal grill.

This is irrelevant as well. I don't want to char things, and to the
extent needed to grill and brown things, the roasting oven does a
perfectly effective job.



I have no difficulty with stir frying either, although I tend to do so
very rapidly using a pre-heated cast iron pan and that works well.

I find the wrist action needed with a wok particularly difficult to
master with a cast iron pan - is there a special Aga bodybuilding
course? :-)

No but I could understand it being difficult for the limp wristed. :-)




Anybody who believes anything written in that rag is naive anyway and
to rely on *anything* written by a journalist is questionable in the
extreme.

Oh, I'd agree with that - except that both articles match my
experience with an Aga quite accurately.

Fine, but not mine.




He is referencing a cooker that his mother must have had at least 50
years ago, probably rather more.

The design hasn't changed much except that the internal "thermal
mass" has been pared down over the years so newer ones are not quite
as effective heat stores as older ones. The oil version still uses a
very old wick burner and the "modulating" gas version is actually
only a rather crude thermo mechanical valve with the over riding
advantage of being simple and reliable rather than efficient.

The burner and control in the gas one has, and I think may well have
made quite a difference.




Another good article is at
http://www.ovolopublishing.co.uk/hou...-aga-help.html

Most of which is untrue - e.g. servicing,

Those are Aga's recommended servicing times - twice yearly for oil
burners, annually for gas versions.

OK, so it's not 6 months across the board as you implied in the first
place. It makes sense to service or at least clean any gas appliance
annually.


I don't know a single Aga owner
who doesn't know the name of their "man who comes to service it".

I don't, but on the other hand, Aga dealers do offer a high level of
service and support if you ask for it. Personally, I can clean the
burner myself.


I
don't know a single conventional cooker owner who has ever had to
have one routinely serviced.

In the case of a gas oven as opposed to a gas Aga, I am not sure that
either *needs* to be serviced. For oil, that is a different matter.




Conventional cooker - "Put pan on hob, when water boils check level,
put lid on, reduce to simmer and boil for 1 hr".

This assumes that the hob can maintain a simmer at constant rate for
an hour without checking.



Aga - "Boil hard on the boiling plate for 10 minutes, before moving
to the simmering plate for a further 20 minutes. Check to see if it
needs topping ... After this initial 30 minute start, transfer the
whole pan, water and all, to the simmering oven for 2 1/2 hours"

I'm not sure how you can describe the second process as "a lot
easier".

I don't think that either are of particular consequence.




We discovered this flaw while trying to cook a
piece of pork shoulder at 70C for 12 hours. At such a low
temperature, a 10C drop meant that the meat would not cook. In fact,
we soon worked out that the temperature fluctuations were up to 25%
in either direction, and when my wife telephoned Aga to inquire about
this, she was told that it was quite normal."

Again, one can only conclude that he or she had an old model or not a
gas one.

Or one can conclude more reasonably that this is actually a well
known and widely acknowledged characteristic of such devices. I'm
beginning to suspect the one you have is an escaped experimental
model using Tardis technology it differs so much from all the others
in the world.

Nope. I've just measured a recent model using a thermocouple, so I
know how it behaves.

In the case of the article you quote, no fuel is mentioned, nor is the
age of the cooker and his way of using it doesn't add up. There is
no way that it takes 12 hours to recover from a drop in temperature
from having the lid open for a typical cooking time on the boiling
plate. Therefore the only conclusion that one can come to is that he
used an old model or it had a fuel other than gas, wasn't adjusted
properly or he was doing something stupid.






We periodically do an overnight roast in the simmering oven and it
always works very well.

That's what I said - Haybox cooking, I've always said they are good
at that.


I've never used a haybox, but as far as the Aga is concerned, this is
a great way to cook a large piece of meat.




Obviously the temperature in an oven drops when the door is opened,
but it goes back up again very quickly because the heat stored in the
thermal mass of the cast iron is hugely more than that required to
heat the air.

"If cooking is carried out, then the ‘store’ is robbed and the
indicator will drop, taking several hours possibly to stabilise back
to the centre line position." (Aga).

Why do so many people (other than yourself) have problems with heat
loss if the thermal mass alone is sufficiently great to compensate
for opening and closing the doors?

I have no idea. I am not sure that it is "so many" in the sense of
being a large proportion of owners of recent models. I am not
convinced in any case that a significant heat loss occurs from opening
and closing oven doors on an Aga unless you leave them open for a long
time. I am more likely to believe that people get themselves into
trouble through not reading the instructions and trying to use the top
plates for extended periods of time with older models.


The thermal mass is also not as
great as some think. A 4 cooker oven weighs about half a tonne but
most of this weight is the castings outside the insulation layer.

In fact they are nearly 600kg. On the modern ones, the only
substantial cast components outside the insulation are the top and
front. Between them, (and I have lifted both comfortably
individually), I don't think the weight exceeds 100kg.


If a joint is being cooked over a 10-12 hour period, there is no way
that there can be a 10 degree or 25% drop in temperature due to oven
doors or lids being opened.

Blumenthal is noted for his lack of scientific knowledge and
imprecision in his cooking I suppose. I doubt if he has much
experience of cookers either.

Goodness knows. The srticle doesn't say what type or age of cooker
he used or how he tried to use it.




Who knows? Either he was using an old Aga or one without modulating
heat source,

Most modern Agas don't have a modulating heat source.

????

The gas ones certainly do. The burner modulates up and down as
required.

I am not sure what the oil ones do, but the site suggests a
thermostatic arrangement for the burner.






or was trying to use it like a gas hob.

Possibly, he isn't the most intellectually flexible chef is he?


Who knows? I've never met the gentleman.


I prefer to stick with my own experiences of what I know works with
what I have.

What you have seems to differ considerably from all other Agas. Aga
put the quiescent heat loss from their ovens at 1kW, yours looses
700W.

Their specifications are generous.

I measured the gas consumption of mine over a 24 hour period on two
occasions when no cooking was done and it equated to 700W.



Aga quote weekly gas consumption for a 4 oven model at 527kW
per week, yours seems to use much less.

That's a figure that they quote as "typical" without saying how it is
derived.

Aga quote the maximum power
output of the gas burner at 5kW - yours seems capable of much more.

No it's the same as all of its type and I haven't suggested that it is
any more than that.


I'm increasingly certain it must be from an alternate dimension or
have a small nuclear core inside it.


I can only comment on the results I've measured.


--

..andy

On 15 Jan 2006 10:09:23 -0800, wrote:


700W. Aga quote weekly gas consumption for a 4 oven model at 527kW
per week, yours seems to use much less. Aga quote the maximum power

Strewth 527kW per week? Our last (typical) gas bill is for 336kW per
QUARTER and we do a fair amount of cooking - not as much as some on
this thread but more than the average household I'd guess.

How do you heat the house?




--

..andy

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:30:33 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


My skill is based on understanding food and processes and being
able to use an oven is a very small part of that.

It is nonetheless a part, and whilst one may be able to cook in or on
anything its much easier on most days to have some idea of the
temperature being used. I do agree with you though that without an
understanding of basic food chemistry and processes cooking can
easily become an unrewarding "monkey see, monkey do" process.

This summer I shall be cooking outdoors in my home built stone bread
oven -but it won't be limited to bread. How many who think that an Aga is no
good would even understand that process?

Most I would think, it isn't difficult. Those who wouldn't will be
equally happy warming up their M&S readydinners in an Aga or whatever
else they choose to use.

You think you might by Googling
perhaps but have you done it? I have. It's the most satisfying cooking there
is.

Only when it's a hobby. When you have to live off primitive cooking
you begin to realise why women in countries where it is a necessity
rarely get educated or escape the home - cooking even dull staples
becomes a full time job. Peering into a pot and saying "what's that
with the legs?" to be answered with "Not sure - wasn't there when I
put it on the fire" has a limited long term attraction.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:38:47 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:00:39 +0000, Peter Parry
wrote:

Ah, I didn't realise you had moved to Stornoway.

No, although I sometimes think that it would be nice.

I've spent several months there - I'd advise having one leg shortened
before going as it makes leaning into the wind much easier.

LOL

Windswept Ophelia in Scotland

"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:30:33 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


My skill is based on understanding food and processes and being
able to use an oven is a very small part of that.

It is nonetheless a part, and whilst one may be able to cook in or on
anything its much easier on most days to have some idea of the
temperature being used. I do agree with you though that without an
understanding of basic food chemistry and processes cooking can
easily become an unrewarding "monkey see, monkey do" process.

This summer I shall be cooking outdoors in my home built stone bread
oven -but it won't be limited to bread. How many who think that an Aga
is no
good would even understand that process?

Most I would think, it isn't difficult. Those who wouldn't will be
equally happy warming up their M&S readydinners in an Aga or whatever
else they choose to use.

You think you might by Googling
perhaps but have you done it? I have. It's the most satisfying cooking
there
is.

Only when it's a hobby. When you have to live off primitive cooking
you begin to realise why women in countries where it is a necessity
rarely get educated or escape the home - cooking even dull staples
becomes a full time job. Peering into a pot and saying "what's that
with the legs?" to be answered with "Not sure - wasn't there when I
put it on the fire" has a limited long term attraction.

Too true but then we are looking at the reality not dreams

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:53:02 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 17:41:18 +0000, Peter Parry
wrote:

The maximum temperature you can achieve from the
oven roof is much lower than that of a normal grill.

This is irrelevant as well. I don't want to char things, and to the
extent needed to grill and brown things, the roasting oven does a
perfectly effective job.

I don't doubt that you find it adequate, I require a higher
temperature in a grill than an oven can achieve (and it doesn't
involve charring things either).

Those are Aga's recommended servicing times - twice yearly for oil
burners, annually for gas versions.

OK, so it's not 6 months across the board as you implied in the first
place. It makes sense to service or at least clean any gas appliance
annually.

From the Aga servicing list :-

* Check operation of all functional controls and components.
* Test safety devices.
* Confirm correct gas pressures.
* Clean burners and internal flue-ways.
* Inspect/Replace rope seals and gaskets.
* Adjust operation of insulating lids and doors.
* Verify level and if necessary top up insulation.
* Visual safety check of oil line and storage tank.
* Check for gas soundness.
* Check integrity and safety of electrical connections and
insulation.
* Ensure flue system and ventilation is correct.
* Clean circulation and/or oven venting fans.

Inspect the ropes and top up the insulation? It supposed to be a
cooker not the engine room of the Titanic!

Conventional cooker - "Put pan on hob, when water boils check level,
put lid on, reduce to simmer and boil for 1 hr".

This assumes that the hob can maintain a simmer at constant rate for
an hour without checking.

With one exception, a very aged Electrolux with bang bang control and
a minimum cycle time of about 5 minutes on the hob plates I've never
had one that can't.

We periodically do an overnight roast in the simmering oven and it
always works very well.

That's what I said - Haybox cooking, I've always said they are good
at that.

I've never used a haybox, but as far as the Aga is concerned, this is
a great way to cook a large piece of meat.

So is a haybox.

Why do so many people (other than yourself) have problems with heat
loss if the thermal mass alone is sufficiently great to compensate
for opening and closing the doors?

I have no idea. I am not sure that it is "so many" in the sense of
being a large proportion of owners of recent models.

"Recent" Aga? The last major revamp was about 1970. Most owners
won't have a problem because (in common with many overly expensive
cookers) most owners never cook anything in or on them.

What you have seems to differ considerably from all other Agas. Aga
put the quiescent heat loss from their ovens at 1kW, yours looses
700W.

Their specifications are generous.

They are? Why would they introduce an error of 20% when inefficiency
is something they mention many times and try to minimise the
significance of in all their literature?

Aga quote weekly gas consumption for a 4 oven model at 527kW
per week, yours seems to use much less.

That's a figure that they quote as "typical" without saying how it is
derived.

"An Aga is a heavily insulated, heat storage cooker, designed to
provide all the heat required for cooking operations, whilst
consuming the minimum of fuel. It is therefore possible to predict
the typical, weekly fuel consumption for each model, based on average
use."

It is difficult to understand why they would overstate this figure to
any extent, indeed it would make much more sense for them to try to
minimise it as much as they can. By any standard 75kW/hr a day every
day of the year for a cooker is dire.

(http://www.aga-web.co.uk/agatech/gen1.htm)

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 17:41:58 +0000, Steve Firth
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 14:07:26 +0000, Steve Firth
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 12:45:32 +0000, Steve Firth
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:

There are, however, a few small country house hotels around which do
use an Aga for cooking because their customers appreciate it.
Name one.

If you look with Google, you will easily find several.
Oh look, it's dIMM.

Name one or admit you lied.


From the first couple of pages.....


http://www.brackenhousehotel.com/

Eight bedrooms.

http://www.cutthorne.com/

Three bedrooms.

http://www.northcotemanor.com/index.htm

I did say small country house hotels.



"What’s more Northcote is the only Michelin starred restaurant in the UK
to have fitted an Aga cooker"

So no need to go much further eh? The only one, it's in Lancashire where
the food is ****e anyway and people would eat a dead dog garnished with
baked beans.


That is, of course, a stupid comment, demonstrating a prejudiced view
of regional cooking.

You may wish to read the various reviews of the place and the chef
before making a further fool of yourself.

I didn't say that an Aga is suitable for commercial, grand scale
cooking, but this does not detract from its efficacy for domestic
purposes.

You asked for some examples of commercial use and I gave you some.

In terms of Michelin star ratings, in the UK in 2004, there were 98
with 1 star, 11 with two and three with 3 stars. Having said that,
I've eaten at examples of all of them and had quality of food and
service worse and better than I would have expected.

The UK has had a reputation for poor cuisine, largely deserved as a
result of poor expectation and mass production of food. I think that
in some places, it has improved considerably over the last few years.

I travel extensively outside the UK as well as inside and have the
opportunity and pleasure of eating at some of the best restaurants in
different countries as measured by recommendation and review. I also
have a very broad taste in terms of national cuisines and there are
few things that I dislike.

As with other purchases, I look for very high standards and quality if
I can get them and certainly won't accept poor service in the context
of the price paid and the expectation set.

Given that as a background, I like regional English dishes, provided
that they are well prepared with good quality ingredients just as much
as I like, for example, regional French, Italian or even Finnish
cooking. I wouldn't want any of them every day.


--

..andy

Andy Hall wrote:
On 15 Jan 2006 10:09:23 -0800, wrote:

700W. Aga quote weekly gas consumption for a 4 oven model at 527kW
per week, yours seems to use much less. Aga quote the maximum power
Strewth 527kW per week? Our last (typical) gas bill is for 336kW per
QUARTER and we do a fair amount of cooking - not as much as some on
this thread but more than the average household I'd guess.

How do you heat the house?

Well, I don't know what they do, but our total energy consumption for a
five bedroomed Georgian pile of a house in the UK is 380kW a week,
that's electricity, LPG (for the cooker hob), oil and wood for central
heating and DHW. So you can see why we ditched the Aga, other than of
course the fact that the Aga is crap at cooking, unless one wishes to
eat a monotonous diet of toast and yet another slow cooked stew.


Agas, the cooker for people who actually believe all that Mills and Boon
crap.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:34:25 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
. ..




I'm not sure why people eat stodgy rubbish like steamed puddings
anyway,

Oh Andy! Steamed puddings are anything BUT stodgy - they're light and airy
(if made properly) and I wish I could afford to eat them more often.
Nothing
todo with finances - the waistline you understand ...


Even like that, which we can do, they still have too high a glycaemic
load for me to eat more than a tiny amount, so typically we don't
bother with them.

But you SAID they were stodgy!




We periodically do an overnight roast in the simmering oven and it
always works very well. Obviously one should always thaw it first
and check with a meat thermometer and start and end of cooking. THat
is the case regardless of the method of cooking.

Why a thermometer?


In the case of meat, I don't like it to be overcooked, although
obviously in the case of pork or poultry, one has to be sure that it
is enough.

You mean you can't tell its condition by sight and resilience?

I was once given a meat thermometer. Most people try to give me food related
presents, they know my passion. Because it was a present from someone I
loved I used it. I could see no value in it at all so it somehow became lost
.... as do many gadgets. They're simply not necessary.

Mary

wrote in message
oups.com...


This summer I shall be cooking outdoors in my home built stone bread
oven -but it won't be limited to bread. How many who think that an Aga is
no
good would even understand that process? You think you might by Googling
perhaps but have you done it? I have. It's the most satisfying cooking
there
is.

Mary
My favourite cooking is on an open fire between 2 stones - basically a
ground level barbeque.

What's a barbeque?

You need reasonable weather and a supply of
booze also.

I cook well without booze, I prefer to enjoy with the meal, not spoil my
appetite and palate beforehand.

Mary

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:30:33 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:



Well, that's enough reading. Matthew Fort (whoever he is) obviously
doesn't
understand about roasting meat and baking Yorkshire. Perhaps he's a
southerner.


Writes for the Guardian - that's even worse :-)

I bow to your greater experience, we don't read newspapers, having
discovered that they're unreliable.

That's an understatement ...



This summer I shall be cooking outdoors in my home built stone bread
oven -but it won't be limited to bread. How many who think that an Aga is
no
good would even understand that process? You think you might by Googling
perhaps but have you done it? I have. It's the most satisfying cooking
there
is.


What else are you planning to cook in it?

You name it! Bread will go in first then things which don't need such a high
temperature. It depends what I want to cook at the time. The heat won't be
wasted - I shall plan in a different way from how I plan now.

I'm particularly looking forward to roasting meat. Hot smoking will also be
done.

I suppose in part, this is the same notion as pizza being better from
a proper wood fired oven.?

What's an improper wood fired oven?

:-)

Mary



--

.andy

"Owain" wrote in message
...
Peter Parry wrote:
Ah, I didn't realise you had moved to Stornoway.
No, although I sometimes think that it would be nice.
I've spent several months there - I'd advise having one leg shortened
before going as it makes leaning into the wind much easier.

Ah, but if one happens to be short and hairy one then runs the risk of
being mistaken for a haggis and being shot.

Depends which way you are running around the mountain

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:40:26 +0000, Peter Parry
wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:38:47 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:00:39 +0000, Peter Parry
wrote:

Ah, I didn't realise you had moved to Stornoway.

No, although I sometimes think that it would be nice.

I've spent several months there - I'd advise having one leg shortened
before going as it makes leaning into the wind much easier.

I see. A bit like parts of Holland then, although hopefully it
doesn't smell of pig ****.




You can pile them on the simmering plate and they won't boil over -
that's simply because they won't boil at all.

They simmer, as they should.


On the boiling plate
they will boil over.


Obviously.


Putting them bit on one and a bit on the other
and playing slidey pans until they all obtain a form of equilibrium
is an interesting but futile way of spending your time.

I never have difficulty with this. It's really very simple. If you
want to boil and then simmer something, you put it on the boiling
plate and then when oiling transfer it to the simmering plate.




One of the more
impressive fires I once went to was someone who had tried making a
large amount of jam on an Aga like device and had gone to answer the
phone(I couldn't tell if it was a real Aga or not as by that stage
most of the kitchen was lying on top of it.)

One has to wonder what on earth he was doing. It would be pretty
difficult to achieve that, even for those of Darwinian stupidity.

It is remarkably easy, Agas actually account for far more fires than
you would expect from the number in use. You put something on the
boiling plate and forget it for a bit.

Only if you're stupid. First of all, it isn't intended that you put
something on the boiling plate for any length of time anyway, let
alone leave it. I see no reason for the risk to be any greater with
an Aga than any other form of cooker, if one is stupid enough to do
that.


With potentially about 5kW
available things go from cold to boiling over and ignition very
quickly.


Hmmm... That depends on the temperature a the time. Equally, one
sees gas hobs with 3 and 4kW main and 6kW wok burners, so I don't buy
the power argument.



In the Aga you actually almost a continuum from bottom left to top
right. I've measured it. In a given oven, there is, through
convection, a difference between top and bottom.

Either it is an efficient heat store - in which case there will be
thermal equilibrium all around each stove or it isn't - in which case
the heat loss will generate a thermal gradient proportional to the
rate of heat loss. You can't have it both ways (or if you want to
please explain how it can happen!).

You have to look at the design of the internals. I have some photos
taken during installation, or there are diagrams on Aga's web site.
Temperature gradients are achieved by position of the burner relative
to the boiling plate, flue gases being directed past the roasting oven
and then connecting sections of metal linking the simmering and
warming ovens to the roasting and baking ovens.

For a given location, the temperature achieved depends on the heat
input at that place as well as the heat loss. Thus a temperature
gradient is formed by the way that the internal castings are connected
together as well as by convection in the ovens themselves.

If you are used to a fan oven, you may not be familiar with the
advantages of temperature gradient within an oven.




The
thing is so useless you can't even bake a decent fruit cake in the
two oven version without buying an accessory "Baking box".

I don't know where you got that from, but I've never heard of it.

Aga:- "If you want to cook large cakes which take more than 45
minutes to cook, such as fruit cake, Madeira cake, cherry cake, etc.,
with a two oven Aga you should invest in an Aga Cakebaker."

Hmm. I wouldn't describe it as particularly special purpose though,
since the innards replace cake tins and the outer provides a 5 litre
pan.



It might do in a coal or old oil one. It changes very little in a
modern gas one.

The "modern" gas one dates from 1968 (upgraded 1993). I suppose in
Aga terms that is modern.

THere isn't a lot that can be changed in a design that is tried and
tested and works well. The modulating burner was an obvious one.



Aga "technique" is very simple and takes about 30 seconds to learn.
I did go on an Aga cooking course (paid for by the owner who thought
it was essential) and sat through a dreary day the highlight of which
comprised instructions on drying labradors in it.

.... and added bonus then.

Have you ever tasted dried labrador? Quite inedible.

Not really. Horse, bear, whale, but not labrador.



Indeed, but not many meals require the expenditure of anything
remotely like 10kW/hr of energy.

It doesn't need to be for an hour though. If you add up having 3-4
burners plus an oven running, you are using 10kW easily.

Indeed but it usually isn't for long so the effect isn't particularly
severe (unless on chooses to do a full roast dinner on a July
evening).

I tended to find it pretty overwhelming, even in the winter, partly
because one needs to stand at a hob for far more of the time attending
to things.



No - that's effective. However something isn't efficient if it is
putting out a kilowatt of energy non-stop every hour of every day
whether it is needed or not. You may find you need a 1kW heater
going all day every day I suggest that most would not. That alone
makes the device inefficient.

I was really talking about 700W.

I appreciate that, but your Aga appears to be especially frugal, I
was using figures from Aga.

I think that they are being conservative to avoid accusations of
unrealistic figures.

I've found Aga-Rayburn to be great to deal with in terms of customer
service. For example, I found a tiny blemish in the enamel of the top
in a place that can not normally be seen without crouching down and
looking carefully. A quick phone call and they had a person out the
following day with a replacement, no questions asked.




If you think about it, many people have that sort of figure in
lighting and appliances.

All the more reason not to put another 0.7/1.0 kW/hr on top.

Not really. It depends on what is needed to provide heating for the
house in general.


--

..andy

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:13:59 +0000, Pete C
wrote:

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 17:27:29 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

THe 700W or so output of the Aga is simply added to the heat from the
CH, so that in effect it is an additional heat source for space
heating. As a consequence, the CH boiler is running at a lower output
than it otherwise would.

In terms of the efficiency of use for space heating, I doubt whether
there is much of a difference in terms of what goes out of the flue
for either heat source.

Hi,

True, but if the Aga isn't room sealed then the ventilation
requirements will be fairly genereous.

cheers,
Pete.

Not really. At 700W or even up to full input, this is not significant
in comparison with a heating boiler.


--

..andy

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 20:03:36 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message


Even like that, which we can do, they still have too high a glycaemic
load for me to eat more than a tiny amount, so typically we don't
bother with them.

But you SAID they were stodgy!

Anything like that which I can't eat much of I describe to myself as
stodgy so that I won't be tempted.







We periodically do an overnight roast in the simmering oven and it
always works very well. Obviously one should always thaw it first
and check with a meat thermometer and start and end of cooking. THat
is the case regardless of the method of cooking.

Why a thermometer?


In the case of meat, I don't like it to be overcooked, although
obviously in the case of pork or poultry, one has to be sure that it
is enough.

You mean you can't tell its condition by sight and resilience?

Generally I can but prefer not to take chances.


I was once given a meat thermometer. Most people try to give me food related
presents, they know my passion. Because it was a present from someone I
loved I used it. I could see no value in it at all so it somehow became lost
... as do many gadgets. They're simply not necessary.


--

..andy

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 19:51:51 +0000, Steve Firth
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 15 Jan 2006 10:09:23 -0800, wrote:

700W. Aga quote weekly gas consumption for a 4 oven model at 527kW
per week, yours seems to use much less. Aga quote the maximum power
Strewth 527kW per week? Our last (typical) gas bill is for 336kW per
QUARTER and we do a fair amount of cooking - not as much as some on
this thread but more than the average household I'd guess.

How do you heat the house?

Well, I don't know what they do, but our total energy consumption for a
five bedroomed Georgian pile of a house in the UK is 380kW a week,
that's electricity, LPG (for the cooker hob), oil and wood for central
heating and DHW.

My total energy usage is in the same area.

So you can see why we ditched the Aga, other than of
course the fact that the Aga is crap at cooking, unless one wishes to
eat a monotonous diet of toast and yet another slow cooked stew.

I think that what you actually mean is that you were crap at cooking
with yours.




--

..andy

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 19:29:11 +0000, Peter Parry
wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:53:02 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 17:41:18 +0000, Peter Parry
wrote:

The maximum temperature you can achieve from the
oven roof is much lower than that of a normal grill.

This is irrelevant as well. I don't want to char things, and to the
extent needed to grill and brown things, the roasting oven does a
perfectly effective job.

I don't doubt that you find it adequate, I require a higher
temperature in a grill than an oven can achieve (and it doesn't
involve charring things either).

I don't know what you're doing then.



Those are Aga's recommended servicing times - twice yearly for oil
burners, annually for gas versions.

OK, so it's not 6 months across the board as you implied in the first
place. It makes sense to service or at least clean any gas appliance
annually.

From the Aga servicing list :-

* Check operation of all functional controls and components.
* Test safety devices.
* Confirm correct gas pressures.
* Clean burners and internal flue-ways.
* Inspect/Replace rope seals and gaskets.
* Adjust operation of insulating lids and doors.
* Verify level and if necessary top up insulation.
* Visual safety check of oil line and storage tank.
* Check for gas soundness.
* Check integrity and safety of electrical connections and
insulation.
* Ensure flue system and ventilation is correct.
* Clean circulation and/or oven venting fans.

Inspect the ropes and top up the insulation? It supposed to be a
cooker not the engine room of the Titanic!

The list is perfectly reasonable for any gas appliance. The rope
seals referred to are those around the oven doors and can be visually
checked quite easily. The insulation level can be checked by lifting
the rings around the plates. Neither are exactly difficult.




Conventional cooker - "Put pan on hob, when water boils check level,
put lid on, reduce to simmer and boil for 1 hr".

This assumes that the hob can maintain a simmer at constant rate for
an hour without checking.

With one exception, a very aged Electrolux with bang bang control and
a minimum cycle time of about 5 minutes on the hob plates I've never
had one that can't.

We periodically do an overnight roast in the simmering oven and it
always works very well.

That's what I said - Haybox cooking, I've always said they are good
at that.

I've never used a haybox, but as far as the Aga is concerned, this is
a great way to cook a large piece of meat.

So is a haybox.

I wouldn't know.



Why do so many people (other than yourself) have problems with heat
loss if the thermal mass alone is sufficiently great to compensate
for opening and closing the doors?

I have no idea. I am not sure that it is "so many" in the sense of
being a large proportion of owners of recent models.

"Recent" Aga? The last major revamp was about 1970. Most owners
won't have a problem because (in common with many overly expensive
cookers) most owners never cook anything in or on them.

Not my experience from people I know with them.



What you have seems to differ considerably from all other Agas. Aga
put the quiescent heat loss from their ovens at 1kW, yours looses
700W.

Their specifications are generous.

They are? Why would they introduce an error of 20% when inefficiency
is something they mention many times and try to minimise the
significance of in all their literature?

I can only tell you what I've measured.



--

..andy

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 20:03:36 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message


Even like that, which we can do, they still have too high a glycaemic
load for me to eat more than a tiny amount, so typically we don't
bother with them.

But you SAID they were stodgy!

Anything like that which I can't eat much of I describe to myself as
stodgy so that I won't be tempted.

So you didn't mean that they were stodgy.

Hmm. That could lead to a lack of credibility in other posts ...

Mary







We periodically do an overnight roast in the simmering oven and it
always works very well. Obviously one should always thaw it first
and check with a meat thermometer and start and end of cooking. THat
is the case regardless of the method of cooking.

Why a thermometer?


In the case of meat, I don't like it to be overcooked, although
obviously in the case of pork or poultry, one has to be sure that it
is enough.

You mean you can't tell its condition by sight and resilience?

Generally I can but prefer not to take chances.


I was once given a meat thermometer. Most people try to give me food
related
presents, they know my passion. Because it was a present from someone I
loved I used it. I could see no value in it at all so it somehow became
lost
... as do many gadgets. They're simply not necessary.


--

.andy

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 20:39:20 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:


I see. A bit like parts of Holland then, although hopefully it
doesn't smell of pig ****.

After 30 seconds in the standing "breeze" what it smells like is
immaterial, your nose has been scoured by the sand to bare bone.

I see no reason for the risk to be any greater with
an Aga than any other form of cooker, if one is stupid enough to do
that.

You may see no reason for it but it is. Firstly because it is much
easier for things to catch fire, in this respect it is on par with
an electric hob rather than a gas one and secondly because people
seem to use bigger containers on them so there is more immediate
fuel. I'm not sure if the size of the heated area and the inability
to turn them off plays a part but they are somewhat more of a hazard
than other cooker types.

Hmmm... That depends on the temperature a the time. Equally, one
sees gas hobs with 3 and 4kW main and 6kW wok burners, so I don't buy
the power argument.

If you have something like a chip pan and add too many soggy chips it
will boil over onto a gas hob and usually put the flame out without
igniting. Do the same on an electric hob or Aga and the result is
spectacular. Whatever the reason the data (1990-1995 - fires in
Norfolk and Suffolk) shows a greater than expected number of Aga
related fires.

You have to look at the design of the internals.

I am familiar with them.


Temperature gradients are achieved by position of the burner relative
to the boiling plate, flue gases being directed past the roasting oven
and then connecting sections of metal linking the simmering and
warming ovens to the roasting and baking ovens.

You are missing my point - to have a significant temperature gradient
you have to have significant heat loss. Once steady state has been
achieved then if the container is well insulated everything within it
will be at the same temperature. That various conductive pathways
have made some bits get hotter faster than others is immaterial.

If you are used to a fan oven, you may not be familiar with the
advantages of temperature gradient within an oven.

I am well familiar with the concept and practice of temperature
gradient within an oven and it has no advantages - that's why I
prefer fan ovens.

Aga:- "If you want to cook large cakes which take more than 45
minutes to cook, such as fruit cake, Madeira cake, cherry cake, etc.,
with a two oven Aga you should invest in an Aga Cakebaker."

Hmm. I wouldn't describe it as particularly special purpose though,

Aga do.

since the innards replace cake tins and the outer provides a 5 litre
pan.

Without it you get a dried out cake with an uncooked inside or a
pound of dried cooked sawdust.

The "modern" gas one dates from 1968 (upgraded 1993). I suppose in
Aga terms that is modern.

THere isn't a lot that can be changed in a design that is tried and
tested and works well.

As a method of saving the servants from topping up the coal several
times a day it is unrivalled. That was its only design aim. I
suppose it is possible that they also stumbled upon the ultimate
cooker at the same time but consider that to be unlikely. I do find
it a bit surprising that in the Nordic countries, which would benefit
from the "continuous heat" the year around, it is virtually unknown
and of course the Swedish company whose name it bears ditched it some
50 years ago.

Have you ever tasted dried labrador? Quite inedible.

Not really. Horse, bear, whale, but not labrador.

Far worse.

I think that they are being conservative to avoid accusations of
unrealistic figures.

I think they are probably sailing as close to the wind as they can
already :-).

I've found Aga-Rayburn to be great to deal with in terms of customer
service. For example, I found a tiny blemish in the enamel of the top
in a place that can not normally be seen without crouching down and
looking carefully.

You inspect your cooker by crouching down and inspecting the bits you
can't usually see!!

A quick phone call and they had a person out the
following day with a replacement, no questions asked.

A replacement cooker? What with that and the number they give away
free to "celebrities" it is no wonder the thing costs over GBP5,000

If you think about it, many people have that sort of figure in
lighting and appliances.

All the more reason not to put another 0.7/1.0 kW/hr on top.

Not really. It depends on what is needed to provide heating for the
house in general.

From June to September usually nothing.


--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 21:34:46 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 20:03:36 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message


Even like that, which we can do, they still have too high a glycaemic
load for me to eat more than a tiny amount, so typically we don't
bother with them.

But you SAID they were stodgy!

Anything like that which I can't eat much of I describe to myself as
stodgy so that I won't be tempted.

So you didn't mean that they were stodgy.

Hmm. That could lead to a lack of credibility in other posts ...


How would you define stodgy?


--

..andy

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 20:55:38 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 19:29:11 +0000, Peter Parry
wrote:

The list is perfectly reasonable for any gas appliance.

Hands up all those that had their rope seals and vermiculite levels
checked on the last gas boiler servicing.

The rope
seals referred to are those around the oven doors and can be visually
checked quite easily. The insulation level can be checked by lifting
the rings around the plates. Neither are exactly difficult.

Neither should be necessary.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 21:48:32 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:


How would you define stodgy?

Cooked in an Aga?


--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 21:46:54 +0000, Peter Parry
wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 20:39:20 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:


I see. A bit like parts of Holland then, although hopefully it
doesn't smell of pig ****.

After 30 seconds in the standing "breeze" what it smells like is
immaterial, your nose has been scoured by the sand to bare bone.

Have to make it somewhere else then. Thule, perhaps.


I see no reason for the risk to be any greater with
an Aga than any other form of cooker, if one is stupid enough to do
that.

You may see no reason for it but it is. Firstly because it is much
easier for things to catch fire, in this respect it is on par with
an electric hob rather than a gas one and secondly because people
seem to use bigger containers on them so there is more immediate
fuel.

You mean chip pans or something of that nature?



I'm not sure if the size of the heated area and the inability
to turn them off plays a part but they are somewhat more of a hazard
than other cooker types.

Hmmm... That depends on the temperature a the time. Equally, one
sees gas hobs with 3 and 4kW main and 6kW wok burners, so I don't buy
the power argument.

If you have something like a chip pan and add too many soggy chips it
will boil over onto a gas hob and usually put the flame out without
igniting. Do the same on an electric hob or Aga and the result is
spectacular. Whatever the reason the data (1990-1995 - fires in
Norfolk and Suffolk) shows a greater than expected number of Aga
related fires.

Ah, should have read on.

We don't do anything involving large quantities of fat such as chip
pans and the like, mainly because we don't eat chips.




You have to look at the design of the internals.

I am familiar with them.


Temperature gradients are achieved by position of the burner relative
to the boiling plate, flue gases being directed past the roasting oven
and then connecting sections of metal linking the simmering and
warming ovens to the roasting and baking ovens.

You are missing my point - to have a significant temperature gradient
you have to have significant heat loss.

In fact you have to have a heat loss in one place that is greater than
another. That isn't quite the same thing. If you restrict the heat
supply to one place (e.g. left hand ovens connected by using a small
casting), then this does not imply great heat loss.


Once steady state has been
achieved then if the container is well insulated everything within it
will be at the same temperature.

It would have to be perfectly insulated to achieve that.

That various conductive pathways
have made some bits get hotter faster than others is immaterial.

Well, no it's not. You have to look at the heat loss for the entire
structure. If you do that, and heat is being fed in in one place
only, then if there were equal heat loss all the way round, the part
nearest the heat source will be hotter than the piece further away. I
am not suggesting that heat loss will be linear all over, but that is
the principle.




If you are used to a fan oven, you may not be familiar with the
advantages of temperature gradient within an oven.

I am well familiar with the concept and practice of temperature
gradient within an oven and it has no advantages - that's why I
prefer fan ovens.

I find that it does because it allows much for flexibility of control
and placement of items.




Aga:- "If you want to cook large cakes which take more than 45
minutes to cook, such as fruit cake, Madeira cake, cherry cake, etc.,
with a two oven Aga you should invest in an Aga Cakebaker."

Hmm. I wouldn't describe it as particularly special purpose though,

Aga do.

I didn't say that they were above marketing any more than any other
appliance manufacturer is.



since the innards replace cake tins and the outer provides a 5 litre
pan.

Without it you get a dried out cake with an uncooked inside or a
pound of dried cooked sawdust.

You probably do, but that wasn't my point. It was simply that you get
a set of cake tins and a pan which can be used for other purposes as
well.




The "modern" gas one dates from 1968 (upgraded 1993). I suppose in
Aga terms that is modern.

THere isn't a lot that can be changed in a design that is tried and
tested and works well.

As a method of saving the servants from topping up the coal several
times a day it is unrivalled. That was its only design aim.

The story I read was that Gustav Dahlen wanted to make a range that
was easier for his wife to use.


I
suppose it is possible that they also stumbled upon the ultimate
cooker at the same time but consider that to be unlikely. I do find
it a bit surprising that in the Nordic countries, which would benefit
from the "continuous heat" the year around, it is virtually unknown
and of course the Swedish company whose name it bears ditched it some
50 years ago.

Which doesn't really mean very much. They came out with IKEA as well,
but I don't hold it against them.




Have you ever tasted dried labrador? Quite inedible.

Not really. Horse, bear, whale, but not labrador.

Far worse.

Ah.



I think that they are being conservative to avoid accusations of
unrealistic figures.

I think they are probably sailing as close to the wind as they can
already :-).

I've found Aga-Rayburn to be great to deal with in terms of customer
service. For example, I found a tiny blemish in the enamel of the top
in a place that can not normally be seen without crouching down and
looking carefully.

You inspect your cooker by crouching down and inspecting the bits you
can't usually see!!

Of course. When I buy anything I check it very carefully. I then
consider the cost and what the supplier said about what I should
expect. If it falls short of that, I ask them to fix it.

After all, this is only asking somebody to do what they said they
would do. If I sell something to somebody, I do the same.


A quick phone call and they had a person out the
following day with a replacement, no questions asked.

A replacement cooker?

Replacement panel

What with that and the number they give away
free to "celebrities" it is no wonder the thing costs over GBP5,000


Worth every penny.


If you think about it, many people have that sort of figure in
lighting and appliances.

All the more reason not to put another 0.7/1.0 kW/hr on top.

Not really. It depends on what is needed to provide heating for the
house in general.

From June to September usually nothing.


Not IME.


--

..andy

Peter Parry wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 20:55:38 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 19:29:11 +0000, Peter Parry
wrote:

The list is perfectly reasonable for any gas appliance.

Hands up all those that had their rope seals and vermiculite levels
checked on the last gas boiler servicing.

Have changed the igniter battery on our 15 year old gas cooker about 3
times perhaps. Thats it for maintenance. About 2 minutes total. cost
50p approx.

cheers
Jacob