"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
t...



SNIP

.. In another tent I have cooked for
both of us for eleven days in Iceland on a larger clay firepot. They're so
controllable and versatile ... and don't use as much fuel as an open
hearth fire butI have used those.


Go riding did you Mary?

"Helen" wrote in message
ups.com...

John wrote:

SNIP


As a first step and making the assumption you have alternative cooking
means
try taking a tank level reading. turning off the Rayburn for a week or
more
then take a second reading to estimate the oil usage over that period
without the Rayburn running. Then repeat with the Rayburn running and
provided there isn't an extreme change in weather conditions you should
have
a reasonable basis to judge what your course of action should be. (Oil
usage
meters are available but not usually worth the cost here.)

Our tank doesn't have any form of reading on it - do you mean just
marking the tank, turn the Rayburn off and see how much has been used?

Correct - thats why I suggested a week or more for the test


I thought of doing this and didn't think it was a particularly accurate
way of going about things (am more than likely wrong on this count) -
have looked into oil usage meters but they seem quite costly as we
don't want to monitor the usage long term

The rayburn (and Aga) uses a natural draught vapourising oil burner as
opposed to a pressure jet and such vapourising burneres are NOT efficient
by
any stretch of the imagination.
As regards the actual central heating usage this depends vastly on the
efficiency of the boiler, size of and insulation/draught proofing of the
house, occupation/control patterns etc. The above tests will give you a
better handle on the problems. It may be that the actual usage by the
Rayburn is high but affordable whereas the heating may be the culprit (I
don't know your financial circumstances so I cannot give an opinion) so
it
could be that your house is leaking heat all over the place.
Can you fill in some of the blanks for us?

Financially we can cope with the current costs - however we don't have
money to burn so would like to make what we have as efficient as
possible. Not sure what you mean about filling in the blanks - we have
double glazing in all bar two of our windows - the front of the house
has three largish windows (about 3ft x 6ft each) which are double
glazed. The loft is inaccessible - and is something we need to do
something about.

The loft sounds like a good candidate for leaking heat. Also room sizes and
outside wall areas very pertinent. I suggest using a heat loss program such
as the Myson or Barlo ones

"John" wrote in message
...

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
t...



SNIP

. In another tent I have cooked for
both of us for eleven days in Iceland on a larger clay firepot. They're
so controllable and versatile ... and don't use as much fuel as an open
hearth fire butI have used those.


Go riding did you Mary?

In Iceland? Yes. But not for the five hours I wanted because Spouse's
crumbling hip caused him too much pain.

Mary

Donwill wrote:
Approx 50% I understand.

Well, if you read more carefully, and *learn to post properly* then
your level of understanding can only increase. HTH.

Mary Fisher wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...
As you see many Rayburn owners turn them off in the summer and make do
with an ordinary cooker instead.

Evidence?

I have a Rayburn for cooking, heating, and hot water - but I turn it off in
the summer.

Sheila

"Chris Bacon" wrote in message
...
Donwill wrote:
Approx 50% I understand.

Well, if you read more carefully, and *learn to post properly* then
your level of understanding can only increase. HTH.

The subject being " Rayburn efficiency?" what don't you understand about two
words and a question mark
Don

"S Viemeister" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...
As you see many Rayburn owners turn them off in the summer and make do
with an ordinary cooker instead.

Evidence?

I have a Rayburn for cooking, heating, and hot water - but I turn it off
in
the summer.

LOL! That's one user.

The poster said "many". You're the only one I've heard of. To substantiate
his statement he needs to provide more evidence.

I didn't know you had summer, btw ... :-)

Mary

Sheila

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 10:34:51 -0000, Mary Fisher wrote:

"S Viemeister" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...
As you see many Rayburn owners turn them off in the summer and make do
with an ordinary cooker instead.

Evidence?

I have a Rayburn for cooking, heating, and hot water - but I turn it off
in
the summer.

LOL! That's one user.

The poster said "many". You're the only one I've heard of. To substantiate
his statement he needs to provide more evidence.

I didn't know you had summer, btw ... :-)

Mary

Sheila

We have an aga, and turtn it off in summer.

Its a lovely space heater, and it cooks ceratun things better than anything
else does, but you need to understand how to get the best out of it.

It has an electric cooker bolted on te side..and we use that for grills and
in summer - when grilled meat and salad is more what we eat than stews,
roasts and bakes..

I also have a microwave. Nothing cooks scarmbled eggs better than a
microwave, or reheats peppered smoke mackerel fillets faster.

We alos have between us 5 cars of various types and on road pereparedness.
One, an old 1978 ;androver, is the nearest thing to a motorised
wheelbarrow, and has used 2 gallons of petrol this year, carting logs up
and down the garden :-)

Horses for courses.

All I can say is that an aga is definitely a step up from the one gas ring
that I used to cook quite complex meals on, at college.

Or the eternal barbecue that we learnt to cook everything on, in Africa.

But I accept its limitations as well.

Huge wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:17:12 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On 13 Jan 2006 01:07:12 -0800, wrote:

As you see many Rayburn owners turn them off in the summer and make do
with an ordinary cooker instead. They only need to take a small logical
step to understand that this makes the Rayburn redundant as a cooker. Not
to mention that most Aga owners also have a collection of toasters,
electric kettles, microwaves, baby belling hot plates etc etc to make up
for the deficiencies of the Agas.

That's urban legend.

So much so, in fact, that the three people I know who own Agas all do
this, and the house we rented in Cornwall with an Aga last year also had an electric
hob built it.

In other words, it's not a UL at all.

Exactly - and I've seen the same in many houses in fact I don't think
I've ever seen an Aga kitchen which didn't have a good range of cooking
"accessories". I've been in hundreds of kitchens as part of my job.
When we had a Rayburn on it's own it was a complete PITA and we soon
added a gas cooker etc but kept the Rayburn as space and water heater
and occasional cooker. Not very good as a space heater as was not
possible to regulate it. Crap as a cooker.

cheers
Jacob

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 11:10:10 +0000, Huge wrote:

On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:17:12 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On 13 Jan 2006 01:07:12 -0800, wrote:

As you see many Rayburn owners turn them off in the summer and make do
with an ordinary cooker instead. They only need to take a small logical
step to understand that this makes the Rayburn redundant as a cooker. Not
to mention that most Aga owners also have a collection of toasters,
electric kettles, microwaves, baby belling hot plates etc etc to make up
for the deficiencies of the Agas.

That's urban legend.

So much so, in fact, that the three people I know who own Agas all do
this, and the house we rented in Cornwall with an Aga last year also had an electric
hob built it.

In other words, it's not a UL at all.

No, its the best of both worlds.

Its a very efficient heater - much better than a boiler - the thing
produces large quantities of warmth rather than a smaller quanity of hot,
and juding by the exhaust temps (I can put my hand on the iron stovepipe:
My oil boiler can, and has, melted plastic near the balanced flue outlet)
its letting more heat into the house than the boiler would for the same
fuel consumption.

It also keeps running without electricity, and losing that is a fairly
common experience round here.

BUT the last thing you want in summer is to be burning oil to heat the
sparrows..once the kitchen stat starts to click in over 25C its time to bin
the aga.

In spring an autumn its like baseband heating - it dos nearly all the
hoiuse needs and we fire up the CH on a manual basis when it gets chilly.

In summer, we dont use any heating at all,

In winter, everything is on.

Essnetialy for 3 months of the year the house requitres xzero additinal
heat - lighting and electrical use, and sun heat it about 5 deg C over
ambient.

In spring and autimn the additional 800W or so of aga is almost all it
needs - that gives about 10 degres over ambient.

In winter, we need the 3KW or so of CH to raise it about 20C over ambient.

Mary Fisher wrote:

I didn't know you had summer, btw ... :-)

The remains of the Gulf Stream give us a rather nice micro-climate!
We've seriously considered installing air-conditioning.

Sheila

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 11:10:10 +0000, Huge wrote:

On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:17:12 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On 13 Jan 2006 01:07:12 -0800, wrote:

As you see many Rayburn owners turn them off in the summer and make do
with an ordinary cooker instead. They only need to take a small logical
step to understand that this makes the Rayburn redundant as a cooker. Not
to mention that most Aga owners also have a collection of toasters,
electric kettles, microwaves, baby belling hot plates etc etc to make up
for the deficiencies of the Agas.

That's urban legend.

So much so, in fact, that the three people I know who own Agas all do
this, and the house we rented in Cornwall with an Aga last year also had an electric
hob built it.

In other words, it's not a UL at all.


As I said, it depends on the size of the kitchen. If it's of
reasonable size, there is no need to turn off the Aga in the summer.

Some people may choose to do so because, for example, they choose to
cook outside instead or are away on holiday.

This past year, we only turned ours off for just over a day to remove
the burner for cleaning, but that's it.

On a day like today, when it's cold and drizzling outside, it's a real
pleasure to come in from an early morning walk, warm up, dry out and
have some toast of unassailable quality prepared on the Aga.



--

..andy

On 14 Jan 2006 04:00:01 -0800, wrote:


Huge wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:17:12 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On 13 Jan 2006 01:07:12 -0800, wrote:

As you see many Rayburn owners turn them off in the summer and make do
with an ordinary cooker instead. They only need to take a small logical
step to understand that this makes the Rayburn redundant as a cooker. Not
to mention that most Aga owners also have a collection of toasters,
electric kettles, microwaves, baby belling hot plates etc etc to make up
for the deficiencies of the Agas.

That's urban legend.

So much so, in fact, that the three people I know who own Agas all do
this, and the house we rented in Cornwall with an Aga last year also had an electric
hob built it.

In other words, it's not a UL at all.

Exactly - and I've seen the same in many houses in fact I don't think
I've ever seen an Aga kitchen which didn't have a good range of cooking
"accessories".

That's curious. The only additional cooking equipment that I have is
a small microwave which is seldom used and a gas grill outside which
gets occasional use in the summer. Of the many friends and
acquaintances that I have with Agas or other storage cookers, I can't
think of anyone with notably more than that - simply because it isn't
necessary.

I've been in hundreds of kitchens as part of my job.
When we had a Rayburn on it's own it was a complete PITA and we soon
added a gas cooker etc but kept the Rayburn as space and water heater
and occasional cooker. Not very good as a space heater as was not
possible to regulate it. Crap as a cooker.


Some people do have difficulty in learning the (what are really fairly
straightforward) methods of cooking with a storage cooker. It took
us a couple of days, and in fact the much greater flexibility and
versatility of what can be cooked and where and the quality of the
result far exceeds anything that was possible with fan ovens, gas hobs
and all the rest of it.


--

..andy

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 13:03:17 +0000, Huge wrote:

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 04:00:01 -0800, owdma wrote:


Huge wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:17:12 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On 13 Jan 2006 01:07:12 -0800, wrote:

[Snippage]


In other words, it's not a UL at all.

Exactly - and I've seen the same in many houses in fact I don't think I've
ever seen an Aga kitchen which didn't have a good range of cooking
"accessories". I've been in hundreds of kitchens as part of my job. When
we had a Rayburn on it's own it was a complete PITA and we soon added a
gas cooker etc but kept the Rayburn as space and water heater and
occasional cooker. Not very good as a space heater as was not possible to
regulate it. Crap as a cooker.

Oh, I disagree. I quite enjoyed cooking on an Aga. It just wasn't worth
putting up with the kilowatts of waste heat.

Perhaps you had an old one or something. On our (recent model) gas
one with modulating burner, the gas consumption works out to a steady
state equivalent of about 700W. Since virtually all of this is
released within the envelope of the house, there is no real waste at
all.

Contrast this with our former arrangement of a fan oven and gas hob,
it could work out that when cooking a complex meal that 10-12kW or
more is released from this lot. Then the windows have to be opened
wide to maintain a sensible temperature. That's what I call a waste.


--

..andy

Andy Hall wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 13:03:17 +0000, Huge wrote:

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 04:00:01 -0800, owdma wrote:


Huge wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:17:12 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On 13 Jan 2006 01:07:12 -0800, wrote:

[Snippage]


In other words, it's not a UL at all.

Exactly - and I've seen the same in many houses in fact I don't think I've
ever seen an Aga kitchen which didn't have a good range of cooking
"accessories". I've been in hundreds of kitchens as part of my job. When
we had a Rayburn on it's own it was a complete PITA and we soon added a
gas cooker etc but kept the Rayburn as space and water heater and
occasional cooker. Not very good as a space heater as was not possibleto
regulate it. Crap as a cooker.

Oh, I disagree. I quite enjoyed cooking on an Aga. It just wasn't worth
putting up with the kilowatts of waste heat.

Perhaps you had an old one or something. On our (recent model) gas
one with modulating burner, the gas consumption works out to a steady
state equivalent of about 700W. Since virtually all of this is
released within the envelope of the house, there is no real waste at
all.

Contrast this with our former arrangement of a fan oven and gas hob,
it could work out that when cooking a complex meal that 10-12kW or
more is released from this lot. Then the windows have to be opened
wide to maintain a sensible temperature. That's what I call a waste.

My last gas bill shows 336KWh for the quarter which is about 3.3KW per
day.
Your estimate equals 16.8 KW per day. Thats what I call waste.
But anyway the whole point of an Aga is to conserve heat from a solid
fuel source which cannot be modulated easily, and was a great
improvement on the open fire range. A gas Aga is thus utterly pointless
in that the gas in a small cheap conventional cooker (or CH boiler)
can be modulated easily and instantly to match demand. You don't need a
£3000 or more cast iron heat sink to save heat - you just turn it on
or off.

cheers

Jacob

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
t...

"John" wrote in message
...

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
t...



SNIP

. In another tent I have cooked for
both of us for eleven days in Iceland on a larger clay firepot. They're
so controllable and versatile ... and don't use as much fuel as an open
hearth fire butI have used those.


Go riding did you Mary?

In Iceland? Yes. But not for the five hours I wanted because Spouse's
crumbling hip caused him too much pain.

The icelandic horses are something else aren't they? I have three Icy's and
am thoroughly enjoying riding more often now semi-retirement has given me
free time. (I should mention I d-i-y fencing and stable repairs just ro stay
on topic for the group)

On 14 Jan 2006 08:03:11 -0800, wrote:


Andy Hall wrote:

Contrast this with our former arrangement of a fan oven and gas hob,
it could work out that when cooking a complex meal that 10-12kW or
more is released from this lot. Then the windows have to be opened
wide to maintain a sensible temperature. That's what I call a waste.

My last gas bill shows 336KWh for the quarter which is about 3.3KW per
day.
Your estimate equals 16.8 KW per day. Thats what I call waste.

No, because the heat is virtually all used within the house and may be
subtracted from the consumption of the other heating systems.


But anyway the whole point of an Aga is to conserve heat from a solid
fuel source which cannot be modulated easily, and was a great
improvement on the open fire range.

Who said anything about solid fuel?

A gas Aga is thus utterly pointless
in that the gas in a small cheap conventional cooker (or CH boiler)
can be modulated easily and instantly to match demand.


That depends on whether one thinks laterally or not.

How is a conventional cooker modulated? It's turned on and off.

I have a very good quality heating boiler with an exceptional
modulation range of 3kW to 30kW. Most modern boilers only go down to
around 7kW and have to be cycled on and off.

The boiler can, of course, modulate up and down relatively quickly to
match heating demand. However, it typically does not because the
temperature in the house, since it is quite well insulated, does not
change that quickly. During a large proportion of the year, it runs
at about the 3kW level, seldom cycling off at all. At times, the
radiators run at temperatures as low as 40 degrees or so.

THe 700W or so output of the Aga is simply added to the heat from the
CH, so that in effect it is an additional heat source for space
heating. As a consequence, the CH boiler is running at a lower output
than it otherwise would.

In terms of the efficiency of use for space heating, I doubt whether
there is much of a difference in terms of what goes out of the flue
for either heat source.

Therefore, in effect, the heat produced by the Aga forms part of the
space heating, and cooking is free.


You don't need a
£3000 or more cast iron heat sink to save heat - you just turn it on
or off.


Of course, but it is not true to say that this approach to cooking and
providing some of the space heating isn't efficient. It is.




--

..andy

wrote in message
oups.com...

Huge wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:17:12 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On 13 Jan 2006 01:07:12 -0800, wrote:

As you see many Rayburn owners turn them off in the summer and make do
with an ordinary cooker instead. They only need to take a small logical
step to understand that this makes the Rayburn redundant as a cooker.
Not
to mention that most Aga owners also have a collection of toasters,
electric kettles, microwaves, baby belling hot plates etc etc to make
up
for the deficiencies of the Agas.

That's urban legend.

So much so, in fact, that the three people I know who own Agas all do
this, and the house we rented in Cornwall with an Aga last year also had
an electric
hob built it.

In other words, it's not a UL at all.

Exactly - and I've seen the same in many houses in fact I don't think
I've ever seen an Aga kitchen which didn't have a good range of cooking
"accessories". I've been in hundreds of kitchens as part of my job.
When we had a Rayburn on it's own it was a complete PITA and we soon
added a gas cooker etc but kept the Rayburn as space and water heater
and occasional cooker. Not very good as a space heater as was not
possible to regulate it. Crap as a cooker.

I know lots of Aga owners who only use their Aga, they'd wonderabout the
abilities of anyonewho couldn't use them.

Perhaps the cooks aren't up to it?

A poor workman blames his tools.

Mary

cheers
Jacob

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 13:03:17 +0000, Huge wrote:


Contrast this with our former arrangement of a fan oven and gas hob,
it could work out that when cooking a complex meal that 10-12kW or
more is released from this lot. Then the windows have to be opened
wide to maintain a sensible temperature. That's what I call a waste.

I agree - the answer is to plan meals so that you don't use more than two
elements of the cooker.

Mary


--

.andy

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 14 Jan 2006 04:00:01 -0800, wrote:


Some people do have difficulty in learning the (what are really fairly
straightforward) methods of cooking with a storage cooker. It took
us a couple of days, and in fact the much greater flexibility and
versatility of what can be cooked and where and the quality of the
result far exceeds anything that was possible with fan ovens, gas hobs
and all the rest of it.

I agree.

But what I wonder about is people wanting to do much cooking in warm weather
....

Mary


--

.andy

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 11:10:10 +0000, Huge wrote:

On a day like today, when it's cold and drizzling outside, it's a real
pleasure to come in from an early morning walk, warm up, dry out and
have some toast of unassailable quality prepared on the Aga.

Aga toast is superb! I intend asking Spouse to make a device for our cooker
to make toast like that.

Mary



--

.andy

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
t...

wrote in message
oups.com...

Huge wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:17:12 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On 13 Jan 2006 01:07:12 -0800, wrote:

As you see many Rayburn owners turn them off in the summer and
make do
with an ordinary cooker instead. They only need to take a small
logical
step to understand that this makes the Rayburn redundant as a
cooker. Not
to mention that most Aga owners also have a collection of
toasters,
electric kettles, microwaves, baby belling hot plates etc etc to
make up
for the deficiencies of the Agas.

That's urban legend.

So much so, in fact, that the three people I know who own Agas all
do
this, and the house we rented in Cornwall with an Aga last year also
had an electric
hob built it.

In other words, it's not a UL at all.

Exactly - and I've seen the same in many houses in fact I don't think
I've ever seen an Aga kitchen which didn't have a good range of
cooking
"accessories". I've been in hundreds of kitchens as part of my job.
When we had a Rayburn on it's own it was a complete PITA and we soon
added a gas cooker etc but kept the Rayburn as space and water heater
and occasional cooker. Not very good as a space heater as was not
possible to regulate it. Crap as a cooker.

I know lots of Aga owners who only use their Aga, they'd wonderabout
the abilities of anyonewho couldn't use them.

Perhaps the cooks aren't up to it?

A poor workman blames his tools.

are you an expert Mary?

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
t...

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 14 Jan 2006 04:00:01 -0800, wrote:


Some people do have difficulty in learning the (what are really
fairly
straightforward) methods of cooking with a storage cooker. It took
us a couple of days, and in fact the much greater flexibility and
versatility of what can be cooked and where and the quality of the
result far exceeds anything that was possible with fan ovens, gas
hobs
and all the rest of it.

I agree.

But what I wonder about is people wanting to do much cooking in warm
weather

O rolls eyes

"S Viemeister" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

I didn't know you had summer, btw ... :-)

The remains of the Gulf Stream give us a rather nice micro-climate!
We've seriously considered installing air-conditioning.

I was joking :-)

Mary

Sheila

Huge wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:17:12 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:
On 13 Jan 2006 01:07:12 -0800, owdman wrote:
As you see many Rayburn owners turn them off in the summer and make do
with an ordinary cooker instead. They only need to take a small logical
step to understand that this makes the Rayburn redundant as a cooker. Not
to mention that most Aga owners also have a collection of toasters,
electric kettles, microwaves, baby belling hot plates etc etc to make up
for the deficiencies of the Agas.

That's urban legend.

So much so, in fact, that the three people I know who own Agas all do
this, and the house we rented in Cornwall with an Aga last year also had an electric
hob built it.

In other words, it's not a UL at all.

Watch the blinkers being strapped on.

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 13:03:17 +0000, Huge wrote:

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 04:00:01 -0800, owdma wrote:


Huge wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:17:12 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On 13 Jan 2006 01:07:12 -0800, wrote:

[Snippage]


In other words, it's not a UL at all.

Exactly - and I've seen the same in many houses in fact I don't think I've
ever seen an Aga kitchen which didn't have a good range of cooking
"accessories". I've been in hundreds of kitchens as part of my job. When
we had a Rayburn on it's own it was a complete PITA and we soon added a
gas cooker etc but kept the Rayburn as space and water heater and
occasional cooker. Not very good as a space heater as was not possible to
regulate it. Crap as a cooker.

Oh, I disagree. I quite enjoyed cooking on an Aga. It just wasn't worth
putting up with the kilowatts of waste heat.

Thats pretty much my attitude too.

Ive cooked on just about every device known to man, and an aga or rayburn
is not near teh bottom by a long chalk.I think a baby belling is probably
the worst thing EVER.

I'd rather have a charcoal barbecue from green logs...

I've stayed in hoses that ONLY had range stoves, and its fine. You can't
grill, but you can toast...everything else is possible, but you have to
work out how.

BUT in summer, its insufferably hot, so I alsio have alternatives.

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 14:25:36 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 13:03:17 +0000, Huge wrote:

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 04:00:01 -0800, owdma wrote:


Huge wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:17:12 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On 13 Jan 2006 01:07:12 -0800, wrote:

[Snippage]


In other words, it's not a UL at all.

Exactly - and I've seen the same in many houses in fact I don't think I've
ever seen an Aga kitchen which didn't have a good range of cooking
"accessories". I've been in hundreds of kitchens as part of my job. When
we had a Rayburn on it's own it was a complete PITA and we soon added a
gas cooker etc but kept the Rayburn as space and water heater and
occasional cooker. Not very good as a space heater as was not possible to
regulate it. Crap as a cooker.

Oh, I disagree. I quite enjoyed cooking on an Aga. It just wasn't worth
putting up with the kilowatts of waste heat.

Perhaps you had an old one or something. On our (recent model) gas
one with modulating burner, the gas consumption works out to a steady
state equivalent of about 700W. Since virtually all of this is
released within the envelope of the house, there is no real waste at
all.

Contrast this with our former arrangement of a fan oven and gas hob,
it could work out that when cooking a complex meal that 10-12kW or
more is released from this lot. Then the windows have to be opened
wide to maintain a sensible temperature. That's what I call a waste.

Yup. The kitchen with an aga is actually cooler tna when cooking with a
stove.

And less humid, than gas, too.

But ione doesn;t do elaborate meals in summer anyway, Cold salads and BBQs
mainly.

On 14 Jan 2006 08:03:11 -0800, wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 13:03:17 +0000, Huge wrote:

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 04:00:01 -0800, owdma wrote:


Huge wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:17:12 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On 13 Jan 2006 01:07:12 -0800, wrote:

[Snippage]


In other words, it's not a UL at all.

Exactly - and I've seen the same in many houses in fact I don't think I've
ever seen an Aga kitchen which didn't have a good range of cooking
"accessories". I've been in hundreds of kitchens as part of my job. When
we had a Rayburn on it's own it was a complete PITA and we soon added a
gas cooker etc but kept the Rayburn as space and water heater and
occasional cooker. Not very good as a space heater as was not possible to
regulate it. Crap as a cooker.

Oh, I disagree. I quite enjoyed cooking on an Aga. It just wasn't worth
putting up with the kilowatts of waste heat.

Perhaps you had an old one or something. On our (recent model) gas
one with modulating burner, the gas consumption works out to a steady
state equivalent of about 700W. Since virtually all of this is
released within the envelope of the house, there is no real waste at
all.

Contrast this with our former arrangement of a fan oven and gas hob,
it could work out that when cooking a complex meal that 10-12kW or
more is released from this lot. Then the windows have to be opened
wide to maintain a sensible temperature. That's what I call a waste.

My last gas bill shows 336KWh for the quarter which is about 3.3KW per
day.
Your estimate equals 16.8 KW per day. Thats what I call waste.

Not if it replaces 16.8KWh of less efficient CH boiler.

But anyway the whole point of an Aga is to conserve heat from a solid
fuel source which cannot be modulated easily, and was a great
improvement on the open fire range. A gas Aga is thus utterly pointless
in that the gas in a small cheap conventional cooker (or CH boiler)
can be modulated easily and instantly to match demand. You don't need a
£3000 or more cast iron heat sink to save heat - you just turn it on
or off.

But agas are better than boilers at producing heat.

That heat level is just about right for spring and autumn to heat almost a
whole medium sized house.

Oil and gas ones are fine...they are a LOT easier to switch on and off too.
Lighting a coal fired aga is vile, and regulating the temperature is almost
impossible.




cheers

Jacob

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 14:16:51 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 11:10:10 +0000, Huge wrote:

On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:17:12 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On 13 Jan 2006 01:07:12 -0800, wrote:

As you see many Rayburn owners turn them off in the summer and make do
with an ordinary cooker instead. They only need to take a small logical
step to understand that this makes the Rayburn redundant as a cooker. Not
to mention that most Aga owners also have a collection of toasters,
electric kettles, microwaves, baby belling hot plates etc etc to make up
for the deficiencies of the Agas.

That's urban legend.

So much so, in fact, that the three people I know who own Agas all do
this, and the house we rented in Cornwall with an Aga last year also had an electric
hob built it.

In other words, it's not a UL at all.

As I said, it depends on the size of the kitchen. If it's of
reasonable size, there is no need to turn off the Aga in the summer.


There is actually, we have 40 sq meters of well inuslated kitchen, and
believe you me, even with the doors into the other rooms permanetly open,
with summer temps often over 20C, ANY heat beyind that is not wanted.

I personally do NOT like having an aga on and openiong all the windows just
to stay cool.

So I turn the bugger off.

Some people may choose to do so because, for example, they choose to
cook outside instead or are away on holiday.

This past year, we only turned ours off for just over a day to remove
the burner for cleaning, but that's it.

On a day like today, when it's cold and drizzling outside, it's a real
pleasure to come in from an early morning walk, warm up, dry out and
have some toast of unassailable quality prepared on the Aga.


Oh for sure, but when temps outside are up around 23-25C? No way.

We like to come into a COOL kichen with a mass of cast iron and a brick
alcove that is still cool from last night...

Andy Hall wrote:

On a day like today, when it's cold and drizzling outside, it's a real
pleasure to come in from an early morning walk, warm up, dry out and
have some toast of unassailable quality prepared on the Aga.

Funny how when Aga owners rant about their cookers the selling points
seem to be toast, stews and keeping the pets warm. Personally I don't
think that's worth the energy costs, but then again, unlike Aga owners I
can cook.

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 00:01:17 +0000, Steve Firth
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:

On a day like today, when it's cold and drizzling outside, it's a real
pleasure to come in from an early morning walk, warm up, dry out and
have some toast of unassailable quality prepared on the Aga.

Funny how when Aga owners rant about their cookers the selling points
seem to be toast, stews and keeping the pets warm.

I don't need to sell anything in terms of cookers. Aga toast toast
is legendary, it is true; however one can cook anything else very well
also, and certainly better than can be achieved in fan ovens and the
like.

Personally I don't
think that's worth the energy costs, but then again, unlike Aga owners I
can cook.

Generally people who criticise storage cookers have never tried one or
read something in a magazine, both of which make their comments
meaningless. If they have tried one, then either they had a very
old or badly set up one or themselves are unable to cook, since it is
really very easy.

--

..andy

Andy Hall wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 00:01:17 +0000, Steve Firth
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:

On a day like today, when it's cold and drizzling outside, it's a real
pleasure to come in from an early morning walk, warm up, dry out and
have some toast of unassailable quality prepared on the Aga.

Funny how when Aga owners rant about their cookers the selling points
seem to be toast, stews and keeping the pets warm.

I don't need to sell anything in terms of cookers. Aga toast toast
is legendary, it is true; however one can cook anything else very well
also, and certainly better than can be achieved in fan ovens and the
like.

Personally I don't
think that's worth the energy costs, but then again, unlike Aga owners I
can cook.

Generally people who criticise storage cookers have never tried one or
read something in a magazine, both of which make their comments
meaningless. If they have tried one, then either they had a very
old or badly set up one or themselves are unable to cook, since it is
really very easy.

--

.andy

I've had three - 2 Rayburns and 1 aga. All my opinions are my own. Yes
I can cook reasonably well. I speak from experience. Rayburns/Agas are
crap.

cheers

Jacob

Andy Hall wrote:
On 14 Jan 2006 08:03:11 -0800, wrote:


Andy Hall wrote:

Contrast this with our former arrangement of a fan oven and gas hob,
it could work out that when cooking a complex meal that 10-12kW or
more is released from this lot. Then the windows have to be opened
wide to maintain a sensible temperature. That's what I call a waste.

My last gas bill shows 336KWh for the quarter which is about 3.3KW per
day.
Your estimate equals 16.8 KW per day. Thats what I call waste.

No, because the heat is virtually all used within the house and may be
subtracted from the consumption of the other heating systems.

So, if my gas cooker was 1/5th as efficient this would be a good thing
as "the heat is virtually all used within the house and may be
subtracted from the consumption of the other heating systems"? Righto
I'll make a point of leaving it on unecessarily, and remove all the
insulation from around the oven!
cheers
Jacob

On 15 Jan 2006 01:50:27 -0800, wrote:


Andy Hall wrote:
On 14 Jan 2006 08:03:11 -0800, wrote:


Andy Hall wrote:

Contrast this with our former arrangement of a fan oven and gas hob,
it could work out that when cooking a complex meal that 10-12kW or
more is released from this lot. Then the windows have to be opened
wide to maintain a sensible temperature. That's what I call a waste.

My last gas bill shows 336KWh for the quarter which is about 3.3KW per
day.
Your estimate equals 16.8 KW per day. Thats what I call waste.

No, because the heat is virtually all used within the house and may be
subtracted from the consumption of the other heating systems.

So, if my gas cooker was 1/5th as efficient this would be a good thing
as "the heat is virtually all used within the house and may be
subtracted from the consumption of the other heating systems"? Righto
I'll make a point of leaving it on unecessarily, and remove all the
insulation from around the oven!
cheers
Jacob


I think that you must have missed my point.

The Aga produces heat at a virtually constant rate of around 700W.

It is released in part in the kitchen and in part from the lower parts
of the flue where it usefully warms the house.

The cooking techniques are different from conventional cookers in that
there are a wide range of temperatures available across the four ovens
and a large proportion of cooking operations that would be done on the
top on a conventional cooker are done in the ovens. Thus, the top
plates, proportionately, are not used as much as the ovens.

A conventional set up of a cooker or a cooker and hob is quite
different. Firstly, insulation is comparatively poor for the oven and
large amounts of heat (2-3kW) are released into the room when it is
running. Secondly, the designs are poor. The one-size-fits-all fan
oven is one of the worst services to proper cooking ever invented. It
limits the range of temperatures available and dries the food badly.
There needs to be much more use of the hob. At around 2-3kW per
burner, it is very easy to be producing 10-12kW released into a small
space in the kitchen while cooking.

That is the essential point. There is no value in having this amount
of heat released into a small space because it will overheat it,
necessitating opening of the windows. At that point, the heat is
wasted. This is a very different proposition to having 700W released
on a continuous basis and forming part of the heating of the house. If
you think about the amount of heat required to heat a room in a
typical house (whatever that is), it is generally much closer to 700W
than 10kW.


--

..andy

On 15 Jan 2006 01:44:09 -0800, wrote:


Andy Hall wrote:


Generally people who criticise storage cookers have never tried one or
read something in a magazine, both of which make their comments
meaningless. If they have tried one, then either they had a very
old or badly set up one or themselves are unable to cook, since it is
really very easy.

--

.andy

I've had three - 2 Rayburns and 1 aga. All my opinions are my own. Yes
I can cook reasonably well. I speak from experience. Rayburns/Agas are
crap.

Presumably you were unable to follow the cooking techniques or they
were all poorly set up......


--

..andy

owdman wrote:
John wrote:
[lots of stuff about Agas & Rayburns]

Or quicker and simpler - go out and buy a proper cooker!

Don't think I've ever heard of a quality restaurant (or a crap one,
even) using Agas or Rayburns to cook for their customers.. presumably
they use inferior cookers to cook their superior food.. LOL.

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 10:50:27 +0000, Chris Bacon
wrote:

owdman wrote:
John wrote:
[lots of stuff about Agas & Rayburns]

Or quicker and simpler - go out and buy a proper cooker!

Don't think I've ever heard of a quality restaurant (or a crap one,
even) using Agas or Rayburns to cook for their customers.. presumably
they use inferior cookers to cook their superior food.. LOL.


That's a rather stupid remark.

Obviously the scale is very different. Commercial restaurants don't
use domestic cookers either.

There are, however, a few small country house hotels around which do
use an Aga for cooking because their customers appreciate it.


--

..andy

Andy Hall wrote:
On 15 Jan 2006 01:50:27 -0800, wrote:


Andy Hall wrote:
On 14 Jan 2006 08:03:11 -0800, wrote:


Andy Hall wrote:

Contrast this with our former arrangement of a fan oven and gas hob,
it could work out that when cooking a complex meal that 10-12kW or
more is released from this lot. Then the windows have to be opened
wide to maintain a sensible temperature. That's what I call a waste.

My last gas bill shows 336KWh for the quarter which is about 3.3KW per
day.
Your estimate equals 16.8 KW per day. Thats what I call waste.

No, because the heat is virtually all used within the house and may be
subtracted from the consumption of the other heating systems.

So, if my gas cooker was 1/5th as efficient this would be a good thing
as "the heat is virtually all used within the house and may be
subtracted from the consumption of the other heating systems"? Righto
I'll make a point of leaving it on unecessarily, and remove all the
insulation from around the oven!
cheers
Jacob


I think that you must have missed my point.

Yes I have - what is it exactly? You have certainly missed mine!

cheers

Jacob

wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:
[ about Agas/Rayburns ]
I think that you must have missed my point.

Yes I have - what is it exactly?

That, flying in the face of reality as shown by replies here, and
other *real world* experience, he's right, and everyone else is wrong?


You have certainly missed mine!

There's none so blind as those that *will not* see.

Andy Hall wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:
owdman wrote:
John wrote:
[lots of stuff about Agas & Rayburns]

Or quicker and simpler - go out and buy a proper cooker!

Don't think I've ever heard of a quality restaurant (or a crap one,
even) using Agas or Rayburns to cook for their customers.. presumably
they use inferior cookers to cook their superior food.. LOL.

That's a rather stupid remark.

Coming from you with your arguments, that's a bit rich.


Obviously the scale is very different. Commercial restaurants don't
use domestic cookers either.

Neither do they use commercial versions of Agas/Rayburns, do they.


There are, however, a few small country house hotels around which do
use an Aga for cooking because their customers appreciate it.

You mean B&Bs.