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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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deburring inside drilled tubing?
Back when I was a practicing Mfg. Eng. at Solar Turbines I did extensive
research into deburring the inside hole made in tubing. I failed to find anything really earth-shaking. I'm faced with the problem again in advising a client of mine on how to deburr the 15 holes he is drilling in 1" od aluminum tubing to create his telescopic affair for his cargo net for pickup trucks. He bought a neat deburring tool from McMaster, on my recommendation, and is using it quite well, but his hand and wrist gets tired after about the 100th hole. He does not want to follow the logical step in taking the work to Mexico or China. He wants his product to be made in the USA. Any burr left on the inside of the tube screws up the easy telescoping movement and scratches the inner tube as well. Anybody have any proven success with this kind of problem? I told him this is one reason so many manufacturers have gone to Mexico or China because deburring is really one of those pesky problems requiring human hands. Of course he could do the work on a CNC machine and maybe we could find a shop to do it but the cost is going to be enormous when he is only dealing with a thousand holes a month. Now. Wayne |
#2
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Would it be possible to jig up something on a drill press or lathe
so that this could be done semi automatically? If you mounted a three jaw on the center of a drill press table that would hold the tube. Then have a flap wheel in the normal chuck and run the tube up and down by adjusting the table height. Or perhaps if you mount a drill press at an angle you could run the tube in and out by hand. You'd need an extension on the flap wheel but I assume you can figure out how to do that. :-) DOC Buy my junk! http://www3.sympatico.ca/doc/robotone/for-sale.html "Wayne Lundberg" wrote in message ... Back when I was a practicing Mfg. Eng. at Solar Turbines I did extensive research into deburring the inside hole made in tubing. I failed to find anything really earth-shaking. I'm faced with the problem again in advising a client of mine on how to deburr the 15 holes he is drilling in 1" od aluminum tubing to create his telescopic affair for his cargo net for pickup trucks. He bought a neat deburring tool from McMaster, on my recommendation, and is using it quite well, but his hand and wrist gets tired after about the 100th hole. He does not want to follow the logical step in taking the work to Mexico or China. He wants his product to be made in the USA. Any burr left on the inside of the tube screws up the easy telescoping movement and scratches the inner tube as well. Anybody have any proven success with this kind of problem? I told him this is one reason so many manufacturers have gone to Mexico or China because deburring is really one of those pesky problems requiring human hands. Of course he could do the work on a CNC machine and maybe we could find a shop to do it but the cost is going to be enormous when he is only dealing with a thousand holes a month. Now. Wayne |
#3
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Wayne,
Curious if you ever ran across the idea of using a feed control unit to minimize or even eliminate a burr while drilling rather than trying to remove it afterwards? I get calls from folks looking to do this all the time. We basically sell them a feed control on the unit we provide so that when the bit is about to break through, the feed rate either stays exactly the same or even slows down so the tool doesn't punch through the last part. The burr is then much smaller or even sometimes gone. Check out this page: http://www.autodrill.com/ser2100.htm Doing this with a multispindle drill head or when holes are far enough apart, some of our customers do a dozen holes at a time. I suppose the same thing could be done with the deburr tool depending on how it works. Here is a seven hole head: http://www.multi-drill.com/multi-spindle-head-app7.htm If your client has lots and lots of holes to do (1000 a month is not a lot to me but may be for him), tell him to find someone who can sell him a multiple spindle head to attach to his drill press or have him buy a whole system from someone. He will save a lot of time and make money. If his production numbers are not great, then it will probably be too expensive... But he may learn something by talking to the company's application specialist for free anyhow. Multiple spindle drill heads usually go for around $200-400 a hole but need to be mounted on a drill press, a Bridgeport style machine or something similar if not built into an all-in-one system like this one which is Photoshopped but identical to what we put together and sold: http://www.multi-drill.com/multi-spindle-head-app2.htm No advertisimg meant, just some ideas for you and your cleint... Feel free to give me a call or leave your number on my machine (number listed on the web pages above) and I'll be glad to have our application guy call you back to see if I can help you find a solution. Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. http://www.autodrill.com http://www.multi-spindle-heads.com V8013 My eBay: http://tinyurl.com/4hpnc "Wayne Lundberg" wrote in message ... Back when I was a practicing Mfg. Eng. at Solar Turbines I did extensive research into deburring the inside hole made in tubing. I failed to find anything really earth-shaking. I'm faced with the problem again in advising a client of mine on how to deburr the 15 holes he is drilling in 1" od aluminum tubing to create his telescopic affair for his cargo net for pickup trucks. He bought a neat deburring tool from McMaster, on my recommendation, and is using it quite well, but his hand and wrist gets tired after about the 100th hole. He does not want to follow the logical step in taking the work to Mexico or China. He wants his product to be made in the USA. Any burr left on the inside of the tube screws up the easy telescoping movement and scratches the inner tube as well. Anybody have any proven success with this kind of problem? I told him this is one reason so many manufacturers have gone to Mexico or China because deburring is really one of those pesky problems requiring human hands. Of course he could do the work on a CNC machine and maybe we could find a shop to do it but the cost is going to be enormous when he is only dealing with a thousand holes a month. Now. Wayne |
#4
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"Wayne Lundberg" wrote in message
... | Back when I was a practicing Mfg. Eng. at Solar Turbines I did extensive | research into deburring the inside hole made in tubing. I failed to find | anything really earth-shaking. | | I'm faced with the problem again in advising a client of mine on how to | deburr the 15 holes he is drilling in 1" od aluminum tubing SNIP Cogsdill deburring tool. It's a hollow rod that you chuck into your drill motor. Near the end it has a slot with a "tooth" sticking out the side and by adjusting the set screw in that end you adjust the spring providing tension on the tooth. You simply push it in and out of the hole while spinning the drill and depending on the tension you set, rotation speed, and how long you linger the hole will be deburred, and if you let it work too long you even get a chamfer. The tooth moves out of the way while inside the hole. Very cool tool. Get 'em on ebay or do a search on the web for sellers. I love using these things, but they take some getting used to because there are three variables that control how much gets cut off. I don't think that for your client's application it will be a big deal, but for mine, a chamfer on the back of a close tolerance hole is a very bad thing. |
#5
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On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 18:51:46 GMT, "Wayne Lundberg"
wrote: Back when I was a practicing Mfg. Eng. at Solar Turbines I did extensive research into deburring the inside hole made in tubing. I failed to find anything really earth-shaking. Perfect choice of words for the method I'll describe. Anybody have any proven success with this kind of problem? I was told about this by an old Swiss toolmaker who described it to me. I never saw it in action. They needed to deburr some copper parts they were making. They made up something they called "the bomb". Essentiallly a big metal box. They put the parts inside along with fuel (gasoline?) vapor and touched it off. The flash burned off the burrs. We live in a pretty rural area and his business was way back in the woods where most people didn't know it existed. In the 60's (I think that was the era) he was making parts for the cameras in the U2 spy planes. He had to work to precision somewhere in the millionths. The shop is across the river and about a mile from a railroad yard as the crow flies. The trains induced vibrations in the work which kept him from getting the precision he needed. He had to do the work in the wee hours from Saturday through some time on Sunday since that's the only time they weren't shifting trains around. At any rate, the method certainly was earth shaking. I can't prove he wasn't pulling my leg, but I don't think so; he just didn't impress me as being that kind of guy. He's been dead for a number of years now so I can't inquire about the bomb for you. NO - he didn't die in an explosion. Bob Lamparter ******* Remove NOSPAM to reply ******* |
#6
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"DOC" wrote in message ... Would it be possible to jig up something on a drill press or lathe so that this could be done semi automatically? If you mounted a three jaw on the center of a drill press table that would hold the tube. Then have a flap wheel in the normal chuck and run the tube up and down by adjusting the table height. Or perhaps if you mount a drill press at an angle you could run the tube in and out by hand. You'd need an extension on the flap wheel but I assume you can figure out how to do that. :-) DOC We are drilling the holes through one side of the tube, and not through the tube. This part is done on a mill-drill machine where we crank in the 1" spacing between holes while the tube is held in a standard vice on the drill-mill table. The problem is when the whole is finished, there is a burr on the inside of the tube and we can only use a 90 degree deburring knife to kill the beasts. Wayne |
#7
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"Joe" wrote in message ... Wayne, Curious if you ever ran across the idea of using a feed control unit to minimize or even eliminate a burr while drilling rather than trying to remove it afterwards? I get calls from folks looking to do this all the time. We basically sell them a feed control on the unit we provide so that when the bit is about to break through, the feed rate either stays exactly the same or even slows down so the tool doesn't punch through the last part. The burr is then much smaller or even sometimes gone. Check out this page: http://www.autodrill.com/ser2100.htm Thanks Joe, my response has been sent to you directly from your quick reply to my problem in private. Wayne |
#8
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"carl mciver" wrote in message nk.net... "Wayne Lundberg" wrote in message ... | Back when I was a practicing Mfg. Eng. at Solar Turbines I did extensive | research into deburring the inside hole made in tubing. I failed to find | anything really earth-shaking. | | I'm faced with the problem again in advising a client of mine on how to | deburr the 15 holes he is drilling in 1" od aluminum tubing SNIP Cogsdill deburring tool. It's a hollow rod that you chuck into your drill motor. Near the end it has a slot with a "tooth" sticking out the side and by adjusting the set screw in that end you adjust the spring providing tension on the tooth. You simply push it in and out of the hole while spinning the drill and depending on the tension you set, rotation speed, and how long you linger the hole will be deburred, and if you let it work too long you even get a chamfer. The tooth moves out of the way while inside the hole. Very cool tool. Get 'em on ebay or do a search on the web for sellers. I love using these things, but they take some getting used to because there are three variables that control how much gets cut off. I don't think that for your client's application it will be a big deal, but for mine, a chamfer on the back of a close tolerance hole is a very bad thing. This looks interesting. I will pursuie through the Cogsdill site even though my first blush is that a quarter inch dia hole is too small for their tooling. Wayne |
#9
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"Tom" wrote in message ... Wayne Lundberg wrote: Back when I was a practicing Mfg. Eng. at Solar Turbines I did extensive research into deburring the inside hole made in tubing. I failed to find anything really earth-shaking. I'm faced with the problem again in advising a client of mine on how to deburr the 15 holes he is drilling in 1" od aluminum tubing to create his telescopic affair for his cargo net for pickup trucks. He bought a neat deburring tool from McMaster, on my recommendation, and is using it quite well, but his hand and wrist gets tired after about the 100th hole. He does not want to follow the logical step in taking the work to Mexico or China. He wants his product to be made in the USA. Any burr left on the inside of the tube screws up the easy telescoping movement and scratches the inner tube as well. Anybody have any proven success with this kind of problem? I told him this is one reason so many manufacturers have gone to Mexico or China because deburring is really one of those pesky problems requiring human hands. Of course he could do the work on a CNC machine and maybe we could find a shop to do it but the cost is going to be enormous when he is only dealing with a thousand holes a month. Now. Wayne Perhaps one of the Cogsdill Deburr tools would provide an answer? http://www.cogsdill.com/pdf%20files/...20Products.pdf Tom Thanks Tom... am pursuing this idea as we speak. |
#10
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"RWL" wrote in message ... On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 18:51:46 GMT, "Wayne Lundberg" wrote: Back when I was a practicing Mfg. Eng. at Solar Turbines I did extensive research into deburring the inside hole made in tubing. I failed to find anything really earth-shaking. Perfect choice of words for the method I'll describe. Anybody have any proven success with this kind of problem? I was told about this by an old Swiss toolmaker who described it to me. I never saw it in action. They needed to deburr some copper parts they were making. They made up something they called "the bomb". Essentiallly a big metal box. They put the parts inside along with fuel (gasoline?) vapor and touched it off. The flash burned off the burrs. We live in a pretty rural area and his business was way back in the woods where most people didn't know it existed. In the 60's (I think that was the era) he was making parts for the cameras in the U2 spy planes. He had to work to precision somewhere in the millionths. The shop is across the river and about a mile from a railroad yard as the crow flies. The trains induced vibrations in the work which kept him from getting the precision he needed. He had to do the work in the wee hours from Saturday through some time on Sunday since that's the only time they weren't shifting trains around. At any rate, the method certainly was earth shaking. I can't prove he wasn't pulling my leg, but I don't think so; he just didn't impress me as being that kind of guy. He's been dead for a number of years now so I can't inquire about the bomb for you. NO - he didn't die in an explosion. Bob Lamparter I had the pleasure of working alongside Gil Cadwell who pioneered explosive fabrication and several other methods for smashing thin sheet metals into compound irregular shapes. One of them was the use of a sparkplug submerged in water and detonated by a bank of capacitors that created such a huge spark that the water was decomposed into oxygen and hydrogen and in that millisecond exploded to create a miniature atomic bomb in the water. The part itself was set next to a tool which received the now very plastic sheet metal to form it perfectly. The first time they tested the idea the shed blew up. Fortunately he and his crew triggered the explosion from some distance. It became known as Hydroforming. I don't think gasoline or a well combined air/gas mix would be hot enough to evaporate the burrs from inside the aluminum tube. But it's worth thinking about perhaps as an EDM. You got me thinking! |
#11
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Thanks Joe, my response has been sent to you directly from your quick
reply to my problem in private. You get my private response to your response? -- Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. http://www.autodrill.com http://www.multi-spindle-heads.com V8013 My eBay: http://tinyurl.com/4hpnc |
#12
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Yep
"Joe" wrote in message ... Thanks Joe, my response has been sent to you directly from your quick reply to my problem in private. You get my private response to your response? -- Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. http://www.autodrill.com http://www.multi-spindle-heads.com V8013 My eBay: http://tinyurl.com/4hpnc |
#13
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On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 20:50:41 GMT, "Wayne Lundberg"
wrote: "carl mciver" wrote in message ink.net... "Wayne Lundberg" wrote in message ... | Back when I was a practicing Mfg. Eng. at Solar Turbines I did extensive | research into deburring the inside hole made in tubing. I failed to find | anything really earth-shaking. | | I'm faced with the problem again in advising a client of mine on how to | deburr the 15 holes he is drilling in 1" od aluminum tubing SNIP Cogsdill deburring tool. It's a hollow rod that you chuck into your drill motor. Near the end it has a slot with a "tooth" sticking out the side and by adjusting the set screw in that end you adjust the spring providing tension on the tooth. You simply push it in and out of the hole while spinning the drill and depending on the tension you set, rotation speed, and how long you linger the hole will be deburred, and if you let it work too long you even get a chamfer. The tooth moves out of the way while inside the hole. Very cool tool. Get 'em on ebay or do a search on the web for sellers. I love using these things, but they take some getting used to because there are three variables that control how much gets cut off. I don't think that for your client's application it will be a big deal, but for mine, a chamfer on the back of a close tolerance hole is a very bad thing. This looks interesting. I will pursuie through the Cogsdill site even though my first blush is that a quarter inch dia hole is too small for their tooling. Wayne Greetings Wayne, I use the Cogsdill tools a lot. One brand of their tooling is called "Burraway" These tools go as small as .078". And they are adjustable for pressure. Because of the way they work they will follow the edge of a hole drilled in a cylinder-which is exactly what you want. For a 1/4" hole go to www.mscdirect.com and look at part number 05755129. That's the MSC part number. The price is 50 bucks and well worth it. Replacement blades are available if yours get dull. Also, the leading cutting edge can be rounded off if you just want to deburr the inside. So your best route will be to drill a hole with as small a burr as possible and then use the Burraway tool. You can make a setup where the tube is laid into a slot in a piece of wood or plastic that is centered under the spindle. Then use the quill to feed the deburring tool in and out. This will give you great control and will keep the hole centered. Eric R Snow, E T Precision Machine |
#14
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Explosive deburring is done all the time commercially. Put parts in a
chamber, add natural gas or propane, spark ignition, flash the flame out a venting port. I've toured this plant, they have all sorts of ways to get all the burrs. http://www.arrowcryo.com/ RWL wrote: On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 18:51:46 GMT, "Wayne Lundberg" wrote: Back when I was a practicing Mfg. Eng. at Solar Turbines I did extensive research into deburring the inside hole made in tubing. I failed to find anything really earth-shaking. Perfect choice of words for the method I'll describe. Anybody have any proven success with this kind of problem? I was told about this by an old Swiss toolmaker who described it to me. I never saw it in action. They needed to deburr some copper parts they were making. They made up something they called "the bomb". Essentiallly a big metal box. They put the parts inside along with fuel (gasoline?) vapor and touched it off. The flash burned off the burrs. We live in a pretty rural area and his business was way back in the woods where most people didn't know it existed. In the 60's (I think that was the era) he was making parts for the cameras in the U2 spy planes. He had to work to precision somewhere in the millionths. The shop is across the river and about a mile from a railroad yard as the crow flies. The trains induced vibrations in the work which kept him from getting the precision he needed. He had to do the work in the wee hours from Saturday through some time on Sunday since that's the only time they weren't shifting trains around. At any rate, the method certainly was earth shaking. I can't prove he wasn't pulling my leg, but I don't think so; he just didn't impress me as being that kind of guy. He's been dead for a number of years now so I can't inquire about the bomb for you. NO - he didn't die in an explosion. Bob Lamparter ******* Remove NOSPAM to reply ******* |
#15
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Thank you. Am forwarding your note to my client who will follow up on this
solution. Wayne "Eric R Snow" wrote in message ... On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 20:50:41 GMT, "Wayne Lundberg" wrote: "carl mciver" wrote in message ink.net... "Wayne Lundberg" wrote in message ... | Back when I was a practicing Mfg. Eng. at Solar Turbines I did extensive | research into deburring the inside hole made in tubing. I failed to find | anything really earth-shaking. | | I'm faced with the problem again in advising a client of mine on how to | deburr the 15 holes he is drilling in 1" od aluminum tubing SNIP Cogsdill deburring tool. It's a hollow rod that you chuck into your drill motor. Near the end it has a slot with a "tooth" sticking out the side and by adjusting the set screw in that end you adjust the spring providing tension on the tooth. You simply push it in and out of the hole while spinning the drill and depending on the tension you set, rotation speed, and how long you linger the hole will be deburred, and if you let it work too long you even get a chamfer. The tooth moves out of the way while inside the hole. Very cool tool. Get 'em on ebay or do a search on the web for sellers. I love using these things, but they take some getting used to because there are three variables that control how much gets cut off. I don't think that for your client's application it will be a big deal, but for mine, a chamfer on the back of a close tolerance hole is a very bad thing. This looks interesting. I will pursuie through the Cogsdill site even though my first blush is that a quarter inch dia hole is too small for their tooling. Wayne Greetings Wayne, I use the Cogsdill tools a lot. One brand of their tooling is called "Burraway" These tools go as small as .078". And they are adjustable for pressure. Because of the way they work they will follow the edge of a hole drilled in a cylinder-which is exactly what you want. For a 1/4" hole go to www.mscdirect.com and look at part number 05755129. That's the MSC part number. The price is 50 bucks and well worth it. Replacement blades are available if yours get dull. Also, the leading cutting edge can be rounded off if you just want to deburr the inside. So your best route will be to drill a hole with as small a burr as possible and then use the Burraway tool. You can make a setup where the tube is laid into a slot in a piece of wood or plastic that is centered under the spindle. Then use the quill to feed the deburring tool in and out. This will give you great control and will keep the hole centered. Eric R Snow, E T Precision Machine |
#16
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Thank you Eric! I am forwarding this to my client.
"Eric R Snow" wrote in message ... On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 20:50:41 GMT, "Wayne Lundberg" wrote: "carl mciver" wrote in message ink.net... "Wayne Lundberg" wrote in message ... | Back when I was a practicing Mfg. Eng. at Solar Turbines I did extensive | research into deburring the inside hole made in tubing. I failed to find | anything really earth-shaking. | | I'm faced with the problem again in advising a client of mine on how to | deburr the 15 holes he is drilling in 1" od aluminum tubing SNIP Cogsdill deburring tool. It's a hollow rod that you chuck into your drill motor. Near the end it has a slot with a "tooth" sticking out the side and by adjusting the set screw in that end you adjust the spring providing tension on the tooth. You simply push it in and out of the hole while spinning the drill and depending on the tension you set, rotation speed, and how long you linger the hole will be deburred, and if you let it work too long you even get a chamfer. The tooth moves out of the way while inside the hole. Very cool tool. Get 'em on ebay or do a search on the web for sellers. I love using these things, but they take some getting used to because there are three variables that control how much gets cut off. I don't think that for your client's application it will be a big deal, but for mine, a chamfer on the back of a close tolerance hole is a very bad thing. This looks interesting. I will pursuie through the Cogsdill site even though my first blush is that a quarter inch dia hole is too small for their tooling. Wayne Greetings Wayne, I use the Cogsdill tools a lot. One brand of their tooling is called "Burraway" These tools go as small as .078". And they are adjustable for pressure. Because of the way they work they will follow the edge of a hole drilled in a cylinder-which is exactly what you want. For a 1/4" hole go to www.mscdirect.com and look at part number 05755129. That's the MSC part number. The price is 50 bucks and well worth it. Replacement blades are available if yours get dull. Also, the leading cutting edge can be rounded off if you just want to deburr the inside. So your best route will be to drill a hole with as small a burr as possible and then use the Burraway tool. You can make a setup where the tube is laid into a slot in a piece of wood or plastic that is centered under the spindle. Then use the quill to feed the deburring tool in and out. This will give you great control and will keep the hole centered. Eric R Snow, E T Precision Machine |
#17
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Thank you! Am forwarding to my client.
"Eric R Snow" wrote in message ... On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 20:50:41 GMT, "Wayne Lundberg" wrote: "carl mciver" wrote in message ink.net... "Wayne Lundberg" wrote in message ... | Back when I was a practicing Mfg. Eng. at Solar Turbines I did extensive | research into deburring the inside hole made in tubing. I failed to find | anything really earth-shaking. | | I'm faced with the problem again in advising a client of mine on how to | deburr the 15 holes he is drilling in 1" od aluminum tubing SNIP Cogsdill deburring tool. It's a hollow rod that you chuck into your drill motor. Near the end it has a slot with a "tooth" sticking out the side and by adjusting the set screw in that end you adjust the spring providing tension on the tooth. You simply push it in and out of the hole while spinning the drill and depending on the tension you set, rotation speed, and how long you linger the hole will be deburred, and if you let it work too long you even get a chamfer. The tooth moves out of the way while inside the hole. Very cool tool. Get 'em on ebay or do a search on the web for sellers. I love using these things, but they take some getting used to because there are three variables that control how much gets cut off. I don't think that for your client's application it will be a big deal, but for mine, a chamfer on the back of a close tolerance hole is a very bad thing. This looks interesting. I will pursuie through the Cogsdill site even though my first blush is that a quarter inch dia hole is too small for their tooling. Wayne Greetings Wayne, I use the Cogsdill tools a lot. One brand of their tooling is called "Burraway" These tools go as small as .078". And they are adjustable for pressure. Because of the way they work they will follow the edge of a hole drilled in a cylinder-which is exactly what you want. For a 1/4" hole go to www.mscdirect.com and look at part number 05755129. That's the MSC part number. The price is 50 bucks and well worth it. Replacement blades are available if yours get dull. Also, the leading cutting edge can be rounded off if you just want to deburr the inside. So your best route will be to drill a hole with as small a burr as possible and then use the Burraway tool. You can make a setup where the tube is laid into a slot in a piece of wood or plastic that is centered under the spindle. Then use the quill to feed the deburring tool in and out. This will give you great control and will keep the hole centered. Eric R Snow, E T Precision Machine |
#18
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--Cogsdill makes an excellent tool, but if a blade breaks, don't
try to insert a new one and get it to work right; better to send the broken one back to the factory and let them do it. --In addition to this method there's always a Rout-a-burr; a little hand-intensive but it works.. --Another method might be abrasive slurry injection or whatever the correct terminology is; don't know much about it but it sure makes for purdy parts at trade shows.. --And finally, assuming you're attaching a second tube at the place where you're making the hole there's a weird little gizmo called the Aushalser, altho at the moment I can't find a link to it; will google a bit more and see if I can find an image.. -- "Steamboat Ed" Haas : Heartily sick of Hacking the Trailing Edge! : "oldies" stations! http://www.nmpproducts.com/intro.htm ---Decks a-wash in a sea of words--- |
#19
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"Wayne Lundberg" wrote in
: We are drilling the holes through one side of the tube, and not through the tube. This part is done on a mill-drill machine where we crank in the 1" spacing between holes while the tube is held in a standard vice on the drill-mill table. The problem is when the whole is finished, there is a burr on the inside of the tube and we can only use a 90 degree deburring knife to kill the beasts. Wayne Wayne, Try switching over to Black & Decker "Bullet" drills. These have a small pilot bit ground in the nose, then a relief angle out to the major cutting dia. They make a clean hole, as the outside cuts ahead of the center. -- Anthony You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make better idiots. Remove sp to reply via email |
#20
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Perhaps one of the Cogsdill Deburr tools would provide an answer?
http://www.cogsdill.com/pdf%20files/...20Products.pdf Funny thing is that I use their product on a daily basis (burnishing tool) and never knew they made the deburring tool... Gotta get me one of those and try it out. I think this may be the answer Wayne's client needs... Now if it could be made as a one piece unit with a drill bit, he could do both operations at the same time... Or if he can somehow space the tool so he can do two at a time, he could drill with a single spindle and deburr with a second on a multi-spindle head... Maybe even all 15 at a time with a large enough machine and then just move the piece 1" and finish off the proicess in a total of two steps... -- Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. http://www.autodrill.com http://www.multi-spindle-heads.com V8013 My eBay: http://tinyurl.com/4hpnc |
#21
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Wayne Lundberg wrote:
Back when I was a practicing Mfg. Eng. at Solar Turbines I did extensive research into deburring the inside hole made in tubing. I failed to find anything really earth-shaking. I'm faced with the problem again in advising a client of mine on how to deburr the 15 holes he is drilling in 1" od aluminum tubing to create his telescopic affair for his cargo net for pickup trucks. He bought a neat deburring tool from McMaster, on my recommendation, and is using it quite well, but his hand and wrist gets tired after about the 100th hole. He does not want to follow the logical step in taking the work to Mexico or China. He wants his product to be made in the USA. Any burr left on the inside of the tube screws up the easy telescoping movement and scratches the inner tube as well. Anybody have any proven success with this kind of problem? I told him this is one reason so many manufacturers have gone to Mexico or China because deburring is really one of those pesky problems requiring human hands. Of course he could do the work on a CNC machine and maybe we could find a shop to do it but the cost is going to be enormous when he is only dealing with a thousand holes a month. Now. Wayne Perhaps one of the Cogsdill Deburr tools would provide an answer? http://www.cogsdill.com/pdf%20files/...20Products.pdf Tom |
#22
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Thanks!
"Anthony" wrote in message ... "Wayne Lundberg" wrote in : We are drilling the holes through one side of the tube, and not through the tube. This part is done on a mill-drill machine where we crank in the 1" spacing between holes while the tube is held in a standard vice on the drill-mill table. The problem is when the whole is finished, there is a burr on the inside of the tube and we can only use a 90 degree deburring knife to kill the beasts. Wayne Wayne, Try switching over to Black & Decker "Bullet" drills. These have a small pilot bit ground in the nose, then a relief angle out to the major cutting dia. They make a clean hole, as the outside cuts ahead of the center. -- Anthony You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make better idiots. Remove sp to reply via email |
#23
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Thanks... looking forward to your research.
"steamer" wrote in message ... --Cogsdill makes an excellent tool, but if a blade breaks, don't try to insert a new one and get it to work right; better to send the broken one back to the factory and let them do it. --In addition to this method there's always a Rout-a-burr; a little hand-intensive but it works.. --Another method might be abrasive slurry injection or whatever the correct terminology is; don't know much about it but it sure makes for purdy parts at trade shows.. --And finally, assuming you're attaching a second tube at the place where you're making the hole there's a weird little gizmo called the Aushalser, altho at the moment I can't find a link to it; will google a bit more and see if I can find an image.. -- "Steamboat Ed" Haas : Heartily sick of Hacking the Trailing Edge! : "oldies" stations! http://www.nmpproducts.com/intro.htm ---Decks a-wash in a sea of words--- |
#24
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I love the multiple spindle idea!
"Joe" wrote in message ... Perhaps one of the Cogsdill Deburr tools would provide an answer? http://www.cogsdill.com/pdf%20files/...20Products.pdf Funny thing is that I use their product on a daily basis (burnishing tool) and never knew they made the deburring tool... Gotta get me one of those and try it out. I think this may be the answer Wayne's client needs... Now if it could be made as a one piece unit with a drill bit, he could do both operations at the same time... Or if he can somehow space the tool so he can do two at a time, he could drill with a single spindle and deburr with a second on a multi-spindle head... Maybe even all 15 at a time with a large enough machine and then just move the piece 1" and finish off the proicess in a total of two steps... -- Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. http://www.autodrill.com http://www.multi-spindle-heads.com V8013 My eBay: http://tinyurl.com/4hpnc |
#25
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I love the multiple spindle idea!
What type of HP does the drilling machine have? What type of clearance do you have at the end of the tube? Can you shift the tool 1" and have the last bit drill / deburr air or is there a clearance issue? It may come down to the fact that you can do most of teh holes in a single shot and then have to either drill or clean up a hole or two by hand because you can't simply move the head to where it needs to be... Of course, there is the option of a 30 spindle head that has 15 spindels across from another 15 spindles spaced at 2" so all you have to do is drill, stroke the table in the X or Y access across the holes to clear the tube and deburr... But we are talking about a serious drilling machine now. Not even sure an old Bridgepirt could handle the stresses involved. Might have to build a custom machine to do that. Maybe direct drive the head with a motor or two and build a manual slide aparatus? -- Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. http://www.autodrill.com http://www.multi-spindle-heads.com V8013 My eBay: http://tinyurl.com/4hpnc |
#26
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Wayne,
Another way of avoiding burr inside the tubing, is to punch the holes rather than drill them. You will need to make a shoe horn type die. I have seen them to give amazing results. Rathin Sinha San Stampings Pvt. Ltd. |
#27
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Wayne,
Another way of avoiding burr inside the tubing, is to punch the holes rather than drill them. You will need to make a shoe horn type die. I have seen them to give amazing results. Rathin Sinha San Stampings Pvt. Ltd. |
#28
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Wayne,
Another way of avoiding burr inside the tubing, is to punch the holes rather than drill them. You will need to make a shoe horn type die. I have seen them to give amazing results. Rathin Sinha San Stampings Pvt. Ltd. |
#29
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An Aushalser is known as a Tee drill in English. Clever (and expensive)
device made in Finland and distributed just up the road out of Norcross GA. http://www.t-drill.com/t60cuengdeu.pdf -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com "steamer" wrote in message ... --Cogsdill makes an excellent tool, but if a blade breaks, don't try to insert a new one and get it to work right; better to send the broken one back to the factory and let them do it. --In addition to this method there's always a Rout-a-burr; a little hand-intensive but it works.. --Another method might be abrasive slurry injection or whatever the correct terminology is; don't know much about it but it sure makes for purdy parts at trade shows.. --And finally, assuming you're attaching a second tube at the place where you're making the hole there's a weird little gizmo called the Aushalser, altho at the moment I can't find a link to it; will google a bit more and see if I can find an image.. -- "Steamboat Ed" Haas : Heartily sick of Hacking the Trailing Edge! : "oldies" stations! http://www.nmpproducts.com/intro.htm ---Decks a-wash in a sea of words--- |
#30
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I've used the handheld deburring tools for years, and they're great for most
tasks, but the internal edges of holes in tubing are a little too complex to allow them to be very effective. I can't help but wonder (about well, lots of things), if a spinning wire brush wouldn't clean up the holes nicely. Check with Tom at Ohio Brush for the availability of different bristle materials and sizes. This would be relatively severe duty for the longevity of the brush, so cheap imported retail store brushes wouldn't provide good results. This would be a second operation, but a brush (those spiraled tube brushes) mounted in a spinning drill press chuck and poked into the drilled holes, would probably do a good job of deburring, and possibly add a small radius to the edges of the holes in aluminum tubing. Ideally, you'd want to drill the holes with a method to minimize the break-through burrs if at all possible. Steel or SS bristles would probably clean the holes fairly efficiently. I would think that poking the brush into the holes would be more effective than running it thru the length of the tube. If I were confronted with this problem in *steel* tubing, I'd probably use a Dremel stone or sanding drum, but if a miniature flap wheel was available, that'd probably work better. WB ............. "Wayne Lundberg" wrote in message ... Back when I was a practicing Mfg. Eng. at Solar Turbines I did extensive research into deburring the inside hole made in tubing. I failed to find anything really earth-shaking. I'm faced with the problem again in advising a client of mine on how to deburr the 15 holes he is drilling in 1" od aluminum tubing to create his telescopic affair for his cargo net for pickup trucks. He bought a neat deburring tool from McMaster, on my recommendation, and is using it quite well, but his hand and wrist gets tired after about the 100th hole. He does not want to follow the logical step in taking the work to Mexico or China. He wants his product to be made in the USA. Any burr left on the inside of the tube screws up the easy telescoping movement and scratches the inner tube as well. Anybody have any proven success with this kind of problem? I told him this is one reason so many manufacturers have gone to Mexico or China because deburring is really one of those pesky problems requiring human hands. Of course he could do the work on a CNC machine and maybe we could find a shop to do it but the cost is going to be enormous when he is only dealing with a thousand holes a month. Now. Wayne ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
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"Wild Bill" wrote in
: I've used the handheld deburring tools for years, and they're great for most tasks, but the internal edges of holes in tubing are a little too complex to allow them to be very effective. I can't help but wonder (about well, lots of things), if a spinning wire brush wouldn't clean up the holes nicely. Check with Tom at Ohio Brush for the availability of different bristle materials and sizes. This would be relatively severe duty for the longevity of the brush, so cheap imported retail store brushes wouldn't provide good results. This would be a second operation, but a brush (those spiraled tube brushes) mounted in a spinning drill press chuck and poked into the drilled holes, would probably do a good job of deburring, and possibly add a small radius to the edges of the holes in aluminum tubing. Ideally, you'd want to drill the holes with a method to minimize the break-through burrs if at all possible. Steel or SS bristles would probably clean the holes fairly efficiently. I would think that poking the brush into the holes would be more effective than running it thru the length of the tube. If I were confronted with this problem in *steel* tubing, I'd probably use a Dremel stone or sanding drum, but if a miniature flap wheel was available, that'd probably work better. WB ............ That got me thinking. Weiler Corporation " http://www.weilercorp.com/ " makes abrasive brushes that are designed specifically for deburring parts. I've used them in auto operations on a machining center with great success. Running them by hand would be just as effective. Dave |
#32
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That got me thinking. Weiler Corporation " http://www.weilercorp.com/ "
makes abrasive brushes that are designed specifically for deburring parts. I've used them in auto operations on a machining center with great success. Running them by hand would be just as effective. Because he is working with a tube that will accept another tube immediately after the holes are drilled, I suggested he use either a drill or preferably a reamer from the end of the tube with a tool extension rod as needed... That way the inside of the tube is guaranteed to match the ID he needs and the burr is effectively removed. As someone else also mentioned, making sure the feed rate of the drilling machine is controlled could almost eliminate the burr as well. The bit wants to "jump" through the last little bit of material and that cuases a heavy burr. If the bit was kept at a constant (slow) feed rate, then the bit would not "plow" through and the burr would be wafer thin and minimized. Even a solid "cleanout" rod could probably be used to deburr the pieces at that point rather than a reamer... Poor tube is gonna be sanded, drilled, reamed, poked and burned to a crisp by the time we all get done with it, huh? Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. (800) 871-5022 http://www.autodrill.com http://www.multi-spindle-heads.com V8013 |
#33
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http://www.cogsdill.com/deburring.html
The one-pass tool will do front side and backside deburring in one shot. I've seen them in action, and they do work. Unsure of cost. -- Replies to group please. Tom Needham "Wayne Lundberg" wrote in message ... Back when I was a practicing Mfg. Eng. at Solar Turbines I did extensive research into deburring the inside hole made in tubing. I failed to find anything really earth-shaking. I'm faced with the problem again in advising a client of mine on how to deburr the 15 holes he is drilling in 1" od aluminum tubing to create his telescopic affair for his cargo net for pickup trucks. He bought a neat deburring tool from McMaster, on my recommendation, and is using it quite well, but his hand and wrist gets tired after about the 100th hole. He does not want to follow the logical step in taking the work to Mexico or China. He wants his product to be made in the USA. Any burr left on the inside of the tube screws up the easy telescoping movement and scratches the inner tube as well. Anybody have any proven success with this kind of problem? I told him this is one reason so many manufacturers have gone to Mexico or China because deburring is really one of those pesky problems requiring human hands. Of course he could do the work on a CNC machine and maybe we could find a shop to do it but the cost is going to be enormous when he is only dealing with a thousand holes a month. Now. Wayne |
#34
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The one-pass tool will do front side and backside deburring in one shot.
I've seen them in action, and they do work. Unsure of cost. I know these work well on flat or almost flat surfaces, but he is doing the drilling in a rathe small tube. These devices don't really work well in those circumstances. -- Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. http://www.autodrill.com http://www.multi-spindle-heads.com V8013 My eBay: http://tinyurl.com/4hpnc |
#35
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On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 14:03:18 -0500, "Joe"
wrote: The one-pass tool will do front side and backside deburring in one shot. I've seen them in action, and they do work. Unsure of cost. I know these work well on flat or almost flat surfaces, but he is doing the drilling in a rathe small tube. These devices don't really work well in those circumstances. Joe, I disagree. Im my experience the cogsdill burraway tools work well when deburring holes that go into or out of a curved surface. In fact, my first experienvc with these tools was using them to deburr holes in tubing. ERS |
#36
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I know these work well on flat or almost flat surfaces, but he is doing
the drilling in a rathe small tube. These devices don't really work well in those circumstances. Joe, I disagree. Im my experience the cogsdill burraway tools work well when deburring holes that go into or out of a curved surface. In fact, my first experienvc with these tools was using them to deburr holes in tubing. Eric, I can agree that they work well on some tubing, but I think this application is a rather small tube. In other words, the ID curve is probably small enough to make the deburring tool hit only on the "sides" of the hole but not the "top" and "bottom" if viewing the tube horizontally. The cutter works on a spring action if we are both talking about the same device... And more pressure is applied to the thin wall aluminum tube when it is sprung in farther as would happen on a tight radius of a small diameter tube... Then again, I've been known to be wrong often so all of my theory-thinking above may be worthless. grin Regardless, I think the best bet to deburr the inside of a small tube is to run a precision reamer or drill down the tube from the open end. As long as that tool is .001 to .002 oversized as compared to the second tube that will be inserted into the first that was drilled, you will get a great fit and all the burrs should disappear more quickly. That method will work on any tube that has a semi-smooth interior as long as you can get a reamer or drill with an extension long enough... And it won't really matter what the burr size is so a feed controlled drilling machine might not even be necessary. Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. http://www.autodrill.com http://www.multi-spindle-heads.com V8013 My eBay: http://tinyurl.com/3n8gj |
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On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 16:34:05 -0500, "Joe"
wrote: I know these work well on flat or almost flat surfaces, but he is doing the drilling in a rathe small tube. These devices don't really work well in those circumstances. Joe, I disagree. Im my experience the cogsdill burraway tools work well when deburring holes that go into or out of a curved surface. In fact, my first experienvc with these tools was using them to deburr holes in tubing. Eric, I can agree that they work well on some tubing, but I think this application is a rather small tube. In other words, the ID curve is probably small enough to make the deburring tool hit only on the "sides" of the hole but not the "top" and "bottom" if viewing the tube horizontally. The cutter works on a spring action if we are both talking about the same device... And more pressure is applied to the thin wall aluminum tube when it is sprung in farther as would happen on a tight radius of a small diameter tube... Then again, I've been known to be wrong often so all of my theory-thinking above may be worthless. grin Regardless, I think the best bet to deburr the inside of a small tube is to run a precision reamer or drill down the tube from the open end. As long as that tool is .001 to .002 oversized as compared to the second tube that will be inserted into the first that was drilled, you will get a great fit and all the burrs should disappear more quickly. That method will work on any tube that has a semi-smooth interior as long as you can get a reamer or drill with an extension long enough... And it won't really matter what the burr size is so a feed controlled drilling machine might not even be necessary. Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. http://www.autodrill.com http://www.multi-spindle-heads.com V8013 My eBay: http://tinyurl.com/3n8gj Hey Joe, not to be contrary or anything but I just finished a job that had .244" dia holes going through a .500 dia aluminum part. Deburring the hole with a regular countersink doesn't work bery well. But the spring loaded Cogsdill Burraway worked great. The secret is using a tool that fits the drilled closely and messing with the setscrew that controls tension on the blade. These joles were on the O.D. of the part. I.D. holes can be harder to deburr right so your suggestion of having as small a burr as possible by controlling the feed is a good one. I have rounded the first cutting edge on the Burraway tool. This is so I can deburr the inside of the hole without doing anything the the outside. Sometimes the jobs I do require minimal visible edge breaks for cosmetic reasoms. ERS |
#38
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Hey Joe, not to be contrary or anything but I just finished a job that
had .244" dia holes going through a .500 dia aluminum part. Deburring the hole with a regular countersink doesn't work bery well. But the spring loaded Cogsdill Burraway worked great. The secret is using a tool that fits the drilled closely and messing with the setscrew that controls tension on the blade. These joles were on the O.D. of the part. I.D. holes can be harder to deburr right so your suggestion of having as small a burr as possible by controlling the feed is a good one. I have rounded the first cutting edge on the Burraway tool. This is so I can deburr the inside of the hole without doing anything the the outside. Sometimes the jobs I do require minimal visible edge breaks for cosmetic reasoms. Great to learn about these tools from someone who has used them! Thank you for the insight. We are always getting inquiries on hole drilling (that's what we do!) and deburring operations... One of these days, I'll simply buy one of their tools and test it on various materials, tubes, etc. for some first-hand experience too. Cogsdill makes a burnishing tool which is pretty cool. We use ot for some oil impregnated bushings on our machine... I am pretty sure they are made to be used on a drill press, etc. but I've put a handle on them and use them manually. Great quality tooling IMHO. -- Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. http://www.autodrill.com http://www.multi-spindle-heads.com V8013 My eBay: http://tinyurl.com/3n8gj |
#39
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Wayne Lundberg wrote:
Back when I was a practicing Mfg. Eng. at Solar Turbines I did extensive research into deburring the inside hole made in tubing. I failed to find anything really earth-shaking. I'm faced with the problem again in advising a client of mine on how to deburr the 15 holes he is drilling in 1" od aluminum tubing to create his telescopic affair for his cargo net for pickup trucks. He bought a neat deburring tool from McMaster, on my recommendation, and is using it quite well, but his hand and wrist gets tired after about the 100th hole. He does not want to follow the logical step in taking the work to Mexico or China. He wants his product to be made in the USA. Any burr left on the inside of the tube screws up the easy telescoping movement and scratches the inner tube as well. Anybody have any proven success with this kind of problem? I told him this is one reason so many manufacturers have gone to Mexico or China because deburring is really one of those pesky problems requiring human hands. Of course he could do the work on a CNC machine and maybe we could find a shop to do it but the cost is going to be enormous when he is only dealing with a thousand holes a month. Now. Wayne we use a company that uses a electro-chemical process. www.vectron-69.com |
#40
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"Wild Bill" wrote in message ... I've used the handheld deburring tools for years, and they're great for most tasks, but the internal edges of holes in tubing are a little Thanks, you make me think of a reamer type device... must try it. Wayne |
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