Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Old July 16th 03, 07:12 PM
Terry King
 
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Default Square steel tubing embedded in concrete: Info/Help??

Round 6:
I am using 5" by 5" steel tubing as vertical supports to my
post and beam barn. Tubing will be embedded in concrete
in 16" holes of from 2 to 4 feet deep, all sitting right on bedrock.

I have two questions I would appreciate your experience on:

1. With a typical 4 foot piece of tubing embedded in 2 feet
of good (normal slump) ready mixed concrete, can I expect the
tubing to stay in place after being located correctly and plumbed,
without additional bracing?? Based on other stuff I've done I
expect this is not a problem, but if you've experienced otherwise
I'd like to know before wet-concrete-time.

2. I expect to pull the tubing up about an inch so that all the
steel is inside the concrete. Is this right? In this configuration
is it customary to add any welded-on rebar or other adders?? Why?

The vertical load will be 1500 pounds to 3000 pounds max, with no
side force.

On "Past discussions here": I have added rebar pins in 3 or 4 locations
where the hole depth is less, and the bedrock has somewhat of a slant.

Bizarre Data: 5x5x1/8" wall STEEL tubing costs only 25% more than
12" SONOTUBE, not even counting the concrete and rebar!! I was moved
in this direction by the fact that the concrete could not be placed
above 2.5 feet into Sonotube without a $600 concrete pump.

....Hoping to pour in a couple days! Thanks for all the help.

--
Regards, Terry King ...In The Woods In Vermont

The one who Dies With The Most Parts LOSES!! What do you need?

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Old July 17th 03, 03:59 AM
Kathy and Erich Coiner
 
Posts: n/a
Default Square steel tubing embedded in concrete: Info/Help??

Don't seal the bottom of the tube with concrete.
There will be times when you get condensation inside the tube. You will end
up with a tube with a couple of feet of water in the bottom. Can you say
rustout in a short period of time?
A friend had the metal tubing porch stair rails rust to failure in less than
3 years in a tract home in San Diego CA

Erich

"Terry King" wrote in message
.. .
Round 6:
I am using 5" by 5" steel tubing as vertical supports to my
post and beam barn. Tubing will be embedded in concrete
in 16" holes of from 2 to 4 feet deep, all sitting right on bedrock.

I have two questions I would appreciate your experience on:

1. With a typical 4 foot piece of tubing embedded in 2 feet
of good (normal slump) ready mixed concrete, can I expect the
tubing to stay in place after being located correctly and plumbed,
without additional bracing?? Based on other stuff I've done I
expect this is not a problem, but if you've experienced otherwise
I'd like to know before wet-concrete-time.

2. I expect to pull the tubing up about an inch so that all the
steel is inside the concrete. Is this right? In this configuration
is it customary to add any welded-on rebar or other adders?? Why?

The vertical load will be 1500 pounds to 3000 pounds max, with no
side force.

On "Past discussions here": I have added rebar pins in 3 or 4 locations
where the hole depth is less, and the bedrock has somewhat of a slant.

Bizarre Data: 5x5x1/8" wall STEEL tubing costs only 25% more than
12" SONOTUBE, not even counting the concrete and rebar!! I was moved
in this direction by the fact that the concrete could not be placed
above 2.5 feet into Sonotube without a $600 concrete pump.

...Hoping to pour in a couple days! Thanks for all the help.

--
Regards, Terry King ...In The Woods In Vermont

The one who Dies With The Most Parts LOSES!! What do you need?



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Old July 17th 03, 09:55 PM
spitfire2
 
Posts: n/a
Default Square steel tubing embedded in concrete: Info/Help??

Kathy and Erich Coiner wrote:

Don't seal the bottom of the tube with concrete.
There will be times when you get condensation inside the tube. You will end
up with a tube with a couple of feet of water in the bottom. Can you say
rustout in a short period of time?
A friend had the metal tubing porch stair rails rust to failure in less than
3 years in a tract home in San Diego CA

Erich

"Terry King" wrote in message
.. .
Round 6:
I am using 5" by 5" steel tubing as vertical supports to my
post and beam barn. Tubing will be embedded in concrete
in 16" holes of from 2 to 4 feet deep, all sitting right on bedrock.

I have two questions I would appreciate your experience on:

1. With a typical 4 foot piece of tubing embedded in 2 feet
of good (normal slump) ready mixed concrete, can I expect the
tubing to stay in place after being located correctly and plumbed,
without additional bracing?? Based on other stuff I've done I
expect this is not a problem, but if you've experienced otherwise
I'd like to know before wet-concrete-time.

2. I expect to pull the tubing up about an inch so that all the
steel is inside the concrete. Is this right? In this configuration
is it customary to add any welded-on rebar or other adders?? Why?

The vertical load will be 1500 pounds to 3000 pounds max, with no
side force.

On "Past discussions here": I have added rebar pins in 3 or 4 locations
where the hole depth is less, and the bedrock has somewhat of a slant.

Bizarre Data: 5x5x1/8" wall STEEL tubing costs only 25% more than
12" SONOTUBE, not even counting the concrete and rebar!! I was moved
in this direction by the fact that the concrete could not be placed
above 2.5 feet into Sonotube without a $600 concrete pump.

...Hoping to pour in a couple days! Thanks for all the help.

--
Regards, Terry King ...In The Woods In Vermont

The one who Dies With The Most Parts LOSES!! What do you need?


How about capping both ends of each tube to seal it against the condensation?

I'm thinking of the problem I get with a 70 gallon diesel fuel tank on my
(steel) canal boat. The tank has a "small" vent - about 1" diameter, and over a
few years, the condensation built up to several gallons of water - just by the
expansion and contraction each day of the air above the fuel. As the day warmed
and then cooled, moist evening air was drawn into the tank, until one day the
engine died - I'd used up the fuel and was trying to run the engine on water!
The tank gauge was showing a good level of contents, only they weren't diesel!
The engineer I called out pumped out this frightening amount of water and warned
me to always keep the tank full, when th boat is not in use.

So, the same could happen to all your columns, if unsealed at both ends!

Dave.


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Old July 18th 03, 03:42 AM
Terry King
 
Posts: n/a
Default Square steel tubing embedded in concrete: Info/Help??

Don't seal the bottom of the tube with concrete.
There will be times when you get condensation inside the tube. You will end
up with a tube with a couple of feet of water in the bottom. Can you say
rustout in a short period of time?


OK, right now I plan to FILL the tubes with concrete, like a
Lally column. Sound OK???

--
Regards, Terry King ...In The Woods In Vermont

The one who Dies With The Most Parts LOSES!! What do you need?
  #5   Report Post  
Old July 18th 03, 04:23 AM
Kathy and Erich Coiner
 
Posts: n/a
Default Square steel tubing embedded in concrete: Info/Help??

Sounds good to me.

Erich

"Terry King" wrote in message
.. .
Don't seal the bottom of the tube with concrete.
There will be times when you get condensation inside the tube. You

will end
up with a tube with a couple of feet of water in the bottom. Can you

say
rustout in a short period of time?


OK, right now I plan to FILL the tubes with concrete, like a
Lally column. Sound OK???

--
Regards, Terry King ...In The Woods In Vermont

The one who Dies With The Most Parts LOSES!! What do you need?





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