Got my Thunderbird filters working (only passes rec.crafts.metalworking)
but unfortunately, most of the posts are still OT (and full of the
typical cretinous blather).

I fear this is hopeless - is there another metal working group (not
necessarily on Usenet) that anyone could recommend?

Laurie Forbes

"Laurie Forbes" wrote in message
...
Got my Thunderbird filters working (only passes rec.crafts.metalworking)
but unfortunately, most of the posts are still OT (and full of the typical
cretinous blather).

I fear this is hopeless - is there another metal working group (not
necessarily on Usenet) that anyone could recommend?

Laurie Forbes

Jim Rozen (remember him?) thinks very highly of the Practical Machinist
group. I haven't talked to him in months, though, so I can't vouch for it.

--
Ed Huntress

On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 19:05:34 -0600, Laurie Forbes
wrote:

Got my Thunderbird filters working (only passes rec.crafts.metalworking)
but unfortunately, most of the posts are still OT (and full of the
typical cretinous blather).

I fear this is hopeless - is there another metal working group (not
necessarily on Usenet) that anyone could recommend?

Laurie Forbes

Atta Girl, Laurie. Insult the group, then ask for help.
Why didn't _I_ think of that? g

Here, try some of the hits he
http://www.google.com/search?q=metalworking+forums
Lots of us frequent the CNC Zone, but your particular wants and needs
will determine which group will catch -your- interest.

G'luck!

P.S: Let us know what you find out there, will ya? Danke mucho,
Madamoiselle.

--
Self-development is a higher duty than self-sacrifice.
-- Elizabeth Cady Stanton

Ed Huntress wrote:
"Laurie Forbes" wrote in message
...
Got my Thunderbird filters working (only passes
rec.crafts.metalworking) but unfortunately, most of the posts are
still OT (and full of the typical cretinous blather).

I fear this is hopeless - is there another metal working group (not
necessarily on Usenet) that anyone could recommend?

Laurie Forbes

Jim Rozen (remember him?) thinks very highly of the Practical
Machinist group. I haven't talked to him in months, though, so I
can't vouch for it.
--
Ed Huntress

I read PM sometimes . Pretty good group , though they're more oriented
towards production as opposed to us hobbyists .
Another good one is http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/index.php , or
perhaps you'll like
http://www.chaski.com/homemachinist/ .
FWIW , I use Outlook Express . It has very good filters , if you use 'em .
Thunderbird also has pretty good filters , and it "learns" your preferences
by what you delete/etc . Sounds like you're just not configuring your
filters properly .
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

On 7/23/2011 8:02 PM, Snag wrote:
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Laurie wrote in message
...
Got my Thunderbird filters working (only passes
rec.crafts.metalworking) but unfortunately, most of the posts are
still OT (and full of the typical cretinous blather).

I fear this is hopeless - is there another metal working group (not
necessarily on Usenet) that anyone could recommend?

Laurie Forbes

Jim Rozen (remember him?) thinks very highly of the Practical
Machinist group. I haven't talked to him in months, though, so I
can't vouch for it.
--
Ed Huntress

I read PM sometimes . Pretty good group , though they're more oriented
towards production as opposed to us hobbyists .
Another good one is http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/index.php , or
perhaps you'll like
http://www.chaski.com/homemachinist/ .

Thank you both for the suggestions.

FWIW , I use Outlook Express . It has very good filters , if you use 'em .
Thunderbird also has pretty good filters , and it "learns" your preferences
by what you delete/etc . Sounds like you're just not configuring your
filters properly .

I was hoping that filtering out all the xposted messages would take care
of the problem but I see now that a lot of OT is posted only to this
group. Maybe have to add filters based on subject content or poster
name but that is pretty hit & miss.

One weird thing about TBird is that it will only let you delete your own
posts (at least as far as I can tell).

Laurie Forbes

On 7/23/2011 7:57 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 19:05:34 -0600, Laurie Forbes
wrote:

Got my Thunderbird filters working (only passes rec.crafts.metalworking)
but unfortunately, most of the posts are still OT (and full of the
typical cretinous blather).

I fear this is hopeless - is there another metal working group (not
necessarily on Usenet) that anyone could recommend?

Laurie Forbes

Atta Girl, Laurie. Insult the group, then ask for help.
Why didn't _I_ think of that?g

Perhaps that was a bit harsh but in any case was directed only at those
who post or xpost OT content (why do they do that anyhow? - there are
other much more suitable groups; the ones with "politics" in the name
for example).

Here, try some of the hits he
http://www.google.com/search?q=metalworking+forums
Lots of us frequent the CNC Zone, but your particular wants and needs
will determine which group will catch -your- interest.

G'luck!

P.S: Let us know what you find out there, will ya? Danke mucho,
Madamoiselle.

I appreciate the suggestions (even though I am not a girl or madam .

Laurie Forbes

Laurie Forbes wrote:

One weird thing about TBird is that it will only let you delete your own
posts (at least as far as I can tell).


That's not weird. You have no right to delete someone else's messages
from usenet. At one time NNTP servers allowed you to delete a post sent
in error, or that was incomplete. Most NNTP servers no longer honor a
cancel message (delete).


--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 19:05:34 -0600, Laurie Forbes
wrote:

Got my Thunderbird filters working (only passes rec.crafts.metalworking)
but unfortunately, most of the posts are still OT (and full of the
typical cretinous blather).

I fear this is hopeless - is there another metal working group (not
necessarily on Usenet) that anyone could recommend?

Laurie Forbes

Excuse me...but is your brain on autopilot? Its quite obvious which
threads are NOT metalworking and which are.

Or does something inside you force you to read each and every post?

Just wondering.

Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 00:15:16 -0600, Laurie Forbes
wrote:


Atta Girl, Laurie. Insult the group, then ask for help.
Why didn't _I_ think of that?g

Perhaps that was a bit harsh but in any case was directed only at those
who post or xpost OT content (why do they do that anyhow? - there are
other much more suitable groups; the ones with "politics" in the name
for example).


Some of us consider this group to be a grand meeting place for people
who are interested in machining, or actively engaged in it in various
aspects.

But..unlike our jobs..its a place to show up, open a cold one, chat with
the folks about machining, guns, politics, machining, machinery and so
forth.

Afterall...we neither get paid for being here, nor do we pay to be here.
Now..having some of the more odeous members cross post their crapola
into this group does have the effect of developing posts on politics on
occasion. But its a very big and very wide room, and there is room for
folks who talk about civil aviation repairs, gun smithing, machine
repair..smoke and Kilowatt meters and all sorts of interesting and not
so interesting Stuff.

Thats why the Subject lines generally show that a thread is or is not
metalworking related.

Failure to read the Subject line, simply shows one to be either lazy, a
whiner or stupid if they complain about the contents of the thread.

There are lots of other threads one may click on that may be of more
interest to people. such as yourself.

Shrug

Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

On 24/07/2011 3:20 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Laurie Forbes wrote:

One weird thing about TBird is that it will only let you delete your own
posts (at least as far as I can tell).


That's not weird. You have no right to delete someone else's messages
from usenet. At one time NNTP servers allowed you to delete a post sent
in error, or that was incomplete. Most NNTP servers no longer honor a
cancel message (delete).




I took it that Laurie meant TB would not allow deletion of the local
copy on your own machine. Which it won't if the message has got past
filters.


Incoming messages that are filtered are effectively deleted - which is
good.

On 24/07/2011 5:47 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
ilure to read the Subject line, simply shows one to be either lazy, a
whiner or stupid if they complain about the contents of the thread.

There are lots of other threads one may click on that may be of more
interest to people. such as yourself.


Gunner I think the problem is that when you cross post to
misc.survivalism you invite in a heap of guys who have no interest in
metalwork but who post prolifically on political and other irrelevant
topics to the point that the NG tends toward being unusable.

I've also started to see guys who were misc.survivalism members now
initiating posts with RCM in the crosspost list - as if they think the
bulk of us are interested in their ideas / opinions.

Who'd pick up a book on aircraft and not be annoyed if every second
article was about china painting. Its a pain in the arse to have to
filter out the dross.

Thats my 2 cents worth anyway!

Laurie Forbes wrote:
On 7/23/2011 8:02 PM, Snag wrote:
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Laurie wrote in message
...
Got my Thunderbird filters working (only passes
rec.crafts.metalworking) but unfortunately, most of the posts are
still OT (and full of the typical cretinous blather).

I fear this is hopeless - is there another metal working group (not
necessarily on Usenet) that anyone could recommend?

Laurie Forbes

Jim Rozen (remember him?) thinks very highly of the Practical
Machinist group. I haven't talked to him in months, though, so I
can't vouch for it.
--
Ed Huntress

I read PM sometimes . Pretty good group , though they're more
oriented towards production as opposed to us hobbyists .
Another good one is http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/index.php ,
or perhaps you'll like
http://www.chaski.com/homemachinist/ .

Thank you both for the suggestions.

FWIW , I use Outlook Express . It has very good filters , if you
use 'em . Thunderbird also has pretty good filters , and it "learns"
your preferences by what you delete/etc . Sounds like you're just
not configuring your filters properly .

I was hoping that filtering out all the xposted messages would take
care of the problem but I see now that a lot of OT is posted only to
this group. Maybe have to add filters based on subject content or
poster name but that is pretty hit & miss.

One weird thing about TBird is that it will only let you delete your
own posts (at least as far as I can tell).

Laurie Forbes

On usenet it works that way , you can't delete anyone else's posts . The
only way I've found to delete is to "block sender" , which then gives you
the option to remove the blocked sender's posts from your machine .

--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

On 7/23/2011 8:05 PM, Laurie Forbes wrote:
Got my Thunderbird filters working (only passes rec.crafts.metalworking)
but unfortunately, most of the posts are still OT (and full of the
typical cretinous blather).

I fear this is hopeless - is there another metal working group (not
necessarily on Usenet) that anyone could recommend?

Laurie Forbes

I use Thunderbird too, and have for a long time.

You shouldn't need a filter to allow "only" a certain newsgroup. You
should only be getting messages from the newsgroups that you are
subscribed to...? You might need to generate and link to a screenshot to
explain this better.

--------

It was my understanding that the Thunderbird junk mail filters won't
work for newsgroup posts, unless you download the entire newsgroup post
list for offline browsing.
,,,,
Downloading a newsgroup for offline browsing takes a lot of download
time initially, even if you only choose the last 2000 or so
messages--but after that, it's relatively quick, since from then on it
only must download all the new messages since your last visit. -I don't
do it though, because the OT posts don't bother me too much.

I am not sure as I don't often use it,,, but I think you can do message
filtering if you access newsgroups through the Google Groups web-based
interface. -At least I think I've seen people on NG's say that you can...?
http://groups.google.com/

The junk filters for email (in Thunderbird) work pretty well.
I prefer to do junk-mail filtering on my own PC, so if anything expected
doesn't arrive I can just go looking in the 'junk mail' folder for it.
If your ISP is filtering stuff for you, you have no way to know what
didn't show up.

As to alternate metalworking forums, the two I visit the most are the
Chaski one, and Home Shop Machinist BBS. Practical Machinist only deals
with production-level equipment that most hobbyists don't have. CNCzone
is pretty nice if cnc is your thing, but it's not mine (not yet anyways).

There's a few Yahoo groups also (some general and some specialized on
certain machines or project types) but I dislike them just for Yahoo's
ancient groups interface, which dates from the dial-up era and quite
frankly sucks donkey genitals. The messages nest only 8 (?) or so levels
deep (so it's difficult to follow complex conversations) and it only
shows ten (?) messages per page.

On 24/07/2011 8:08 PM, Snag wrote:
Laurie Forbes wrote:
On 7/23/2011 8:02 PM, Snag wrote:
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Laurie wrote in message
...
Got my Thunderbird filters working (only passes
rec.crafts.metalworking) but unfortunately, most of the posts are
still OT (and full of the typical cretinous blather).

I fear this is hopeless - is there another metal working group (not
necessarily on Usenet) that anyone could recommend?

Laurie Forbes

Jim Rozen (remember him?) thinks very highly of the Practical
Machinist group. I haven't talked to him in months, though, so I
can't vouch for it.
--
Ed Huntress

I read PM sometimes . Pretty good group , though they're more
oriented towards production as opposed to us hobbyists .
Another good one is http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/index.php ,
or perhaps you'll like
http://www.chaski.com/homemachinist/ .

Thank you both for the suggestions.

FWIW , I use Outlook Express . It has very good filters , if you
use 'em . Thunderbird also has pretty good filters , and it "learns"
your preferences by what you delete/etc . Sounds like you're just
not configuring your filters properly .

I was hoping that filtering out all the xposted messages would take
care of the problem but I see now that a lot of OT is posted only to
this group. Maybe have to add filters based on subject content or
poster name but that is pretty hit& miss.

One weird thing about TBird is that it will only let you delete your
own posts (at least as far as I can tell).

Laurie Forbes

On usenet it works that way , you can't delete anyone else's posts . The
only way I've found to delete is to "block sender" , which then gives you
the option to remove the blocked sender's posts from your machine .



Outlook Express lets you delete others messages (on your machine) so
they are no longer visible. The problem is if someone else replies to
the thread it turns up in your new headers.

Dennis wrote:


Outlook Express lets you delete others messages (on your machine) so
they are no longer visible. The problem is if someone else replies to
the thread it turns up in your new headers.

Just one more reason not to feed the trolls . Lesss than perfect , I agree
, but it works well enough for me that I seldom see much crap .
Feed the rolls often enough and you'll end up in my bozo bin with them ...
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

On 7/24/2011 5:22 AM, Dennis wrote:
On 24/07/2011 3:20 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Laurie Forbes wrote:

One weird thing about TBird is that it will only let you delete your own
posts (at least as far as I can tell).


That's not weird. You have no right to delete someone else's messages
from usenet. At one time NNTP servers allowed you to delete a post sent
in error, or that was incomplete. Most NNTP servers no longer honor a
cancel message (delete).




I took it that Laurie meant TB would not allow deletion of the local
copy on your own machine. Which it won't if the message has got past
filters.


Incoming messages that are filtered are effectively deleted - which is
good.

Yes, that is what I was getting at - just get them off my screen.

Laurie Forbes

On 7/24/2011 6:17 AM, DougC wrote:
On 7/23/2011 8:05 PM, Laurie Forbes wrote:
Got my Thunderbird filters working (only passes rec.crafts.metalworking)
but unfortunately, most of the posts are still OT (and full of the
typical cretinous blather).

I fear this is hopeless - is there another metal working group (not
necessarily on Usenet) that anyone could recommend?

Laurie Forbes

I use Thunderbird too, and have for a long time.

You shouldn't need a filter to allow "only" a certain newsgroup. You
should only be getting messages from the newsgroups that you are
subscribed to...? You might need to generate and link to a screenshot to
explain this better.

Sure, I get only messages with RCM in the header but that unfortunately
often includes xposts from other newsgroups (wherein often lies the
crapulence). I have this working successfully now in TB but I'm finding
that even RCMs only are sometimes OT - oh well, still a much smaller
problem that b/f.



--------

It was my understanding that the Thunderbird junk mail filters won't
work for newsgroup posts, unless you download the entire newsgroup post
list for offline browsing.

Yes, that's how I understand it but it's not that much of an issue if
you have a fast downlink.

,,,,
Downloading a newsgroup for offline browsing takes a lot of download
time initially, even if you only choose the last 2000 or so
messages--but after that, it's relatively quick, since from then on it
only must download all the new messages since your last visit. -I don't
do it though, because the OT posts don't bother me too much.

I am not sure as I don't often use it,,, but I think you can do message
filtering if you access newsgroups through the Google Groups web-based
interface. -At least I think I've seen people on NG's say that you can...?
http://groups.google.com/

The junk filters for email (in Thunderbird) work pretty well.
I prefer to do junk-mail filtering on my own PC, so if anything expected
doesn't arrive I can just go looking in the 'junk mail' folder for it.
If your ISP is filtering stuff for you, you have no way to know what
didn't show up.

As to alternate metalworking forums, the two I visit the most are the
Chaski one, and Home Shop Machinist BBS. Practical Machinist only deals
with production-level equipment that most hobbyists don't have. CNCzone
is pretty nice if cnc is your thing, but it's not mine (not yet anyways).

There's a few Yahoo groups also (some general and some specialized on
certain machines or project types) but I dislike them just for Yahoo's
ancient groups interface, which dates from the dial-up era and quite
frankly sucks donkey genitals. The messages nest only 8 (?) or so levels
deep (so it's difficult to follow complex conversations) and it only
shows ten (?) messages per page.

Thanks.

Laurie Forbes

On 7/24/2011 2:58 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 19:05:34 -0600, Laurie
wrote:

Got my Thunderbird filters working (only passes rec.crafts.metalworking)
but unfortunately, most of the posts are still OT (and full of the
typical cretinous blather).

I fear this is hopeless - is there another metal working group (not
necessarily on Usenet) that anyone could recommend?

Laurie Forbes

Excuse me...but is your brain on autopilot? Its quite obvious which
threads are NOT metalworking and which are.

Or does something inside you force you to read each and every post?

Just wondering.


That same tired argument has been rehashed many times before here - no
point in resurrecting it.

Suffice it to say it boils down to civility, consideration and respect.

Laurie Forbes

On 7/24/2011 3:47 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 00:15:16 -0600, Laurie
wrote:


Atta Girl, Laurie. Insult the group, then ask for help.
Why didn't _I_ think of that?g

Perhaps that was a bit harsh but in any case was directed only at those
who post or xpost OT content (why do they do that anyhow? - there are
other much more suitable groups; the ones with "politics" in the name
for example).


Some of us consider this group to be a grand meeting place for people
who are interested in machining, or actively engaged in it in various
aspects.


It is also unfortunately a place for "some of us" not to engage in
reasoned discussion/debate but to hurl insults, threats and invective
and, OT posts or not, that happens with lamentable frequency. That is
the bigger issue IMO.

A recent example:

"Odd..I assumed the readers would be able to follow along. You of course
are in denial, so no matter what I posted, you would simply scrunch up
your widdle face, start squalling and probably **** your pants as you
hunched around in a tight little circle while shrieking and stamping
your widdle feet.

But hey...next time You post..Ill start counting and pointing out your
lies. Its quite easy to do.

But son? Wear a diaper before spewing out one of your lie filled
posts..ok? Cause I really hate the smell of ****."

But I will cease now for fear of being accused of not practicing what I
preach.

Laurie Forbes

On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 19:30:42 +0800, Dennis wrote:

On 24/07/2011 5:47 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
ilure to read the Subject line, simply shows one to be either lazy, a
whiner or stupid if they complain about the contents of the thread.

There are lots of other threads one may click on that may be of more
interest to people. such as yourself.


Gunner I think the problem is that when you cross post to
misc.survivalism you invite in a heap of guys who have no interest in
metalwork but who post prolifically on political and other irrelevant
topics to the point that the NG tends toward being unusable.
Actually..I may indeed post to misc.survivalism, but those folks are
also interested in many aspects of metalworking. Its not those folks
you need to worry about. Its other groups that I would never even keep
al listing of that are the problem children..and I NEVER start a post to
any of those groups. Lets see...hummmm

alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.liberalism,a lt.politics.usa,rec.crafts.metalworking

Care to show that I started postings to that rather odd group? Twasnt
me.
Or this one visa vis dog walking the gorilla?

alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots,alt.politics.obama,alt.politics.democrats ,talk.politics.guns,rec.crafts.metalworking

Again..not my creation.

I will start a thread involving 3 groups. rec.crafts.metalworking,
alt.machines.cnc, misc.survivalism.

Period. End program. Full Stop. EnditEnditEndit.


I've also started to see guys who were misc.survivalism members now
initiating posts with RCM in the crosspost list - as if they think the
bulk of us are interested in their ideas / opinions.

Odd that many here respond isnt it? So perhaps the "bulk" may be smaller
than you would like it to be? As I stated..its a comfy place to settle
down and discuss things beyond simply metal working. Would you care
for me to post a wide range of subject data that regulars here have
posted that is NOT "metalworking"? Including yourself on occasion?

Who'd pick up a book on aircraft and not be annoyed if every second
article was about china painting. Its a pain in the arse to have to
filter out the dross.

Your opinion is indeed noted. I understand the concern and boredom that
many from outside of the US must feel when US politics are discussed.
But there are other threads to follow..or to start . Feel free!

Thats my 2 cents worth anyway!

Valid points all and I thank you for presenting your concerns.

Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 10:35:15 -0600, Laurie Forbes
wrote:

On 7/24/2011 3:47 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 00:15:16 -0600, Laurie
wrote:


Atta Girl, Laurie. Insult the group, then ask for help.
Why didn't _I_ think of that?g

Perhaps that was a bit harsh but in any case was directed only at those
who post or xpost OT content (why do they do that anyhow? - there are
other much more suitable groups; the ones with "politics" in the name
for example).


Some of us consider this group to be a grand meeting place for people
who are interested in machining, or actively engaged in it in various
aspects.


It is also unfortunately a place for "some of us" not to engage in
reasoned discussion/debate but to hurl insults, threats and invective
and, OT posts or not, that happens with lamentable frequency. That is
the bigger issue IMO.

A recent example:

"Odd..I assumed the readers would be able to follow along. You of course
are in denial, so no matter what I posted, you would simply scrunch up
your widdle face, start squalling and probably **** your pants as you
hunched around in a tight little circle while shrieking and stamping
your widdle feet.

But hey...next time You post..Ill start counting and pointing out your
lies. Its quite easy to do.

But son? Wear a diaper before spewing out one of your lie filled
posts..ok? Cause I really hate the smell of ****."

But I will cease now for fear of being accused of not practicing what I
preach.

Laurie Forbes


Of course. You went off topic. See..it happens to even the best, in an
open free flowing forum.

G

And did you happen to notice all the groups in that cross posted bit of
dreck?

I certainly didnt invite all those other groups in here. Perhaps if you
review the thread history..you can find out who did?

alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots,alt.politics.obama,alt.politics.democrats ,talk.politics.guns,rec.crafts.metalworking

Have a good time and please present your data when you find out who did
it. Twerent me. Shrug

Gunner





--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

"Laurie Forbes" wrote in message
...
Got my Thunderbird filters working (only passes rec.crafts.metalworking)
but unfortunately, most of the posts are still OT (and full of the typical
cretinous blather).

I fear this is hopeless - is there another metal working group (not
necessarily on Usenet) that anyone could recommend?

Laurie Forbes

As much as I dislike moderated newsgroups, I would join one in a heartbeat.
rec.guns is moderated, and is a fine group. Someone just has to have the
time to read and sort all the crap. I do not have the time. There is a
wealth of knowledge here, and there would be a new untapped wealth in a
newsgroup where it was limited to the subject.

I am considering starting one for postsurgical heart surgery patients. I am
going to check it out, and find out what is necessary. Will even ask here.

Steve

"Laurie Forbes" wrote in message
...
On 7/24/2011 3:47 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 00:15:16 -0600, Laurie
wrote:


Atta Girl, Laurie. Insult the group, then ask for help.
Why didn't _I_ think of that?g

Perhaps that was a bit harsh but in any case was directed only at those
who post or xpost OT content (why do they do that anyhow? - there are
other much more suitable groups; the ones with "politics" in the name
for example).


Some of us consider this group to be a grand meeting place for people
who are interested in machining, or actively engaged in it in various
aspects.


It is also unfortunately a place for "some of us" not to engage in
reasoned discussion/debate but to hurl insults, threats and invective and,
OT posts or not, that happens with lamentable frequency. That is the
bigger issue IMO.

A recent example:

"Odd..I assumed the readers would be able to follow along. You of course
are in denial, so no matter what I posted, you would simply scrunch up
your widdle face, start squalling and probably **** your pants as you
hunched around in a tight little circle while shrieking and stamping
your widdle feet.

But hey...next time You post..Ill start counting and pointing out your
lies. Its quite easy to do.

But son? Wear a diaper before spewing out one of your lie filled
posts..ok? Cause I really hate the smell of ****."

But I will cease now for fear of being accused of not practicing what I
preach.

Laurie Forbes

Damn, you're a fast learner. Welcome!

Steve

On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 21:19:30 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

As much as I dislike moderated newsgroups, I would join one in a heartbeat.
rec.guns is moderated, and is a fine group. Someone just has to have the
time to read and sort all the crap. I do not have the time. There is a
wealth of knowledge here, and there would be a new untapped wealth in a
newsgroup where it was limited to the subject.


And rec.guns had 14 posts this past week.


--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 21:19:30 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

As much as I dislike moderated newsgroups, I would join one in a heartbeat.
rec.guns is moderated, and is a fine group. Someone just has to have the
time to read and sort all the crap. I do not have the time. There is a
wealth of knowledge here, and there would be a new untapped wealth in a
newsgroup where it was limited to the subject.

And rec.guns had 14 posts this past week.


One moderated group I used to read had the sole moderator die. No one
else had the information to moderate the group, so it took over three
months to fix the problem.

At the very least you need two moderators, unless you intend to sit
there 24 hours a day to control the group. A dozen would be great, but
is almost impossible to get that many people to agree to the exact same
standards.

I wonder if you can set one up that doesn't allow cross posted
messages, and automatically posts them after filtering for a few
keywords?


--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

On 2011-07-25, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 21:19:30 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

As much as I dislike moderated newsgroups, I would join one in a heartbeat.
rec.guns is moderated, and is a fine group. Someone just has to have the
time to read and sort all the crap. I do not have the time. There is a
wealth of knowledge here, and there would be a new untapped wealth in a
newsgroup where it was limited to the subject.


And rec.guns had 14 posts this past week.



Their moderator hasa very unreasonable policy of asking for "real
names".

i

On 2011-07-25, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 21:19:30 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

As much as I dislike moderated newsgroups, I would join one in a heartbeat.
rec.guns is moderated, and is a fine group. Someone just has to have the
time to read and sort all the crap. I do not have the time. There is a
wealth of knowledge here, and there would be a new untapped wealth in a
newsgroup where it was limited to the subject.

And rec.guns had 14 posts this past week.


One moderated group I used to read had the sole moderator die. No one
else had the information to moderate the group, so it took over three
months to fix the problem.

At the very least you need two moderators, unless you intend to sit
there 24 hours a day to control the group. A dozen would be great, but
is almost impossible to get that many people to agree to the exact same
standards.

I wonder if you can set one up that doesn't allow cross posted
messages, and automatically posts them after filtering for a few
keywords?



Yes, this is how my moderation software can operate.

i

Ignoramus2004 wrote:

On 2011-07-25, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 21:19:30 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

As much as I dislike moderated newsgroups, I would join one in a heartbeat.
rec.guns is moderated, and is a fine group. Someone just has to have the
time to read and sort all the crap. I do not have the time. There is a
wealth of knowledge here, and there would be a new untapped wealth in a
newsgroup where it was limited to the subject.


And rec.guns had 14 posts this past week.



Their moderator hasa very unreasonable policy of asking for "real
names".


In your opinion. It prevents sock puppets & trolls, which is the
reason for a moderated newsgroup.


--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

On 2011-07-25, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Ignoramus2004 wrote:

On 2011-07-25, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 21:19:30 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

As much as I dislike moderated newsgroups, I would join one in a heartbeat.
rec.guns is moderated, and is a fine group. Someone just has to have the
time to read and sort all the crap. I do not have the time. There is a
wealth of knowledge here, and there would be a new untapped wealth in a
newsgroup where it was limited to the subject.


And rec.guns had 14 posts this past week.



Their moderator hasa very unreasonable policy of asking for "real
names".


In your opinion. It prevents sock puppets & trolls, which is the
reason for a moderated newsgroup.



Moderation prevents trolls even without requiring real names.

i

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 21:19:30 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

As much as I dislike moderated newsgroups, I would join one in a
heartbeat.
rec.guns is moderated, and is a fine group. Someone just has to have the
time to read and sort all the crap. I do not have the time. There is a
wealth of knowledge here, and there would be a new untapped wealth in a
newsgroup where it was limited to the subject.


And rec.guns had 14 posts this past week.

And they were fine posts, too. All about guns. Well, a little about
Norway. It should have been 15, but I guess I stepped on the moderator's
toe, or something with one of my calmer comments.

Steve


--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

Ignoramus2004 wrote:

On 2011-07-25, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Ignoramus2004 wrote:

On 2011-07-25, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 21:19:30 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

As much as I dislike moderated newsgroups, I would join one in a heartbeat.
rec.guns is moderated, and is a fine group. Someone just has to have the
time to read and sort all the crap. I do not have the time. There is a
wealth of knowledge here, and there would be a new untapped wealth in a
newsgroup where it was limited to the subject.


And rec.guns had 14 posts this past week.



Their moderator hasa very unreasonable policy of asking for "real
names".


In your opinion. It prevents sock puppets & trolls, which is the
reason for a moderated newsgroup.



Moderation prevents trolls even without requiring real names.


If you say so.


--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 07:49:54 -0500, Ignoramus2004
wrote:

On 2011-07-25, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 21:19:30 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

As much as I dislike moderated newsgroups, I would join one in a heartbeat.
rec.guns is moderated, and is a fine group. Someone just has to have the
time to read and sort all the crap. I do not have the time. There is a
wealth of knowledge here, and there would be a new untapped wealth in a
newsgroup where it was limited to the subject.


And rec.guns had 14 posts this past week.



Their moderator hasa very unreasonable policy of asking for "real
names".

i

Odd..I post there occasionally and all I use is Gunner.

You are a box of rather interesting ..errors at times.

But I still like you Tovarich.

Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

Laurie Forbes on Sun, 24 Jul 2011 10:35:15
-0600 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On 7/24/2011 3:47 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 00:15:16 -0600, Laurie
wrote:
Atta Girl, Laurie. Insult the group, then ask for help.
Why didn't _I_ think of that?g

Perhaps that was a bit harsh but in any case was directed only at those
who post or xpost OT content (why do they do that anyhow? - there are
other much more suitable groups; the ones with "politics" in the name
for example).


Some of us consider this group to be a grand meeting place for people
who are interested in machining, or actively engaged in it in various
aspects.


It is also unfortunately a place for "some of us" not to engage in
reasoned discussion/debate but to hurl insults, threats and invective
and, OT posts or not, that happens with lamentable frequency. That is
the bigger issue IMO.

A recent example:

"Odd..I assumed the readers would be able to follow along. You of course
are in denial, so no matter what I posted, you would simply scrunch up
your widdle face, start squalling and probably **** your pants as you
hunched around in a tight little circle while shrieking and stamping
your widdle feet.

But hey...next time You post..Ill start counting and pointing out your
lies. Its quite easy to do.

But son? Wear a diaper before spewing out one of your lie filled
posts..ok? Cause I really hate the smell of ****."

But I will cease now for fear of being accused of not practicing what I
preach.

Thread drift; like the poor and end times, will be with us always.
Cats, women, and Usenet threads will do as they please, and dogs, men
and the overly rigid will have to just accept those facts.

Speaking of filters, does anyone have any comments about replacing
the OEM paper air filters with those K&N Replacement Air Filters kits?


tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 02:24:33 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 21:19:30 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

As much as I dislike moderated newsgroups, I would join one in a heartbeat.
rec.guns is moderated, and is a fine group.


And rec.guns had 14 posts this past week.

I think that used to be a high one day posting on fido.firearms back
in the day, and many comments were from guys who had experience, not
just theory. The guys are still out there, but scattered on different
forums now.

RWL

On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 17:10:59 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Laurie Forbes on Sun, 24 Jul 2011 10:35:15
-0600 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On 7/24/2011 3:47 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 00:15:16 -0600, Laurie
wrote:
Atta Girl, Laurie. Insult the group, then ask for help.
Why didn't _I_ think of that?g

Perhaps that was a bit harsh but in any case was directed only at those
who post or xpost OT content (why do they do that anyhow? - there are
other much more suitable groups; the ones with "politics" in the name
for example).


Some of us consider this group to be a grand meeting place for people
who are interested in machining, or actively engaged in it in various
aspects.


It is also unfortunately a place for "some of us" not to engage in
reasoned discussion/debate but to hurl insults, threats and invective
and, OT posts or not, that happens with lamentable frequency. That is
the bigger issue IMO.

A recent example:

"Odd..I assumed the readers would be able to follow along. You of course
are in denial, so no matter what I posted, you would simply scrunch up
your widdle face, start squalling and probably **** your pants as you
hunched around in a tight little circle while shrieking and stamping
your widdle feet.

But hey...next time You post..Ill start counting and pointing out your
lies. Its quite easy to do.

But son? Wear a diaper before spewing out one of your lie filled
posts..ok? Cause I really hate the smell of ****."

But I will cease now for fear of being accused of not practicing what I
preach.

Thread drift; like the poor and end times, will be with us always.
Cats, women, and Usenet threads will do as they please, and dogs, men
and the overly rigid will have to just accept those facts.

Speaking of filters, does anyone have any comments about replacing
the OEM paper air filters with those K&N Replacement Air Filters kits?

They're great when you run WFO all the time.
Otherwise, they're a bit pricy.

--
[Television is] the triumph of machine over people.
-- Fred Allen

On 2011-07-24, Laurie Forbes wrote:

[ ... ]

I was hoping that filtering out all the xposted messages would take care
of the problem but I see now that a lot of OT is posted only to this
group. Maybe have to add filters based on subject content or poster
name but that is pretty hit & miss.

Filtering out the crossposted messages is a good start.
However, there are people who start them here alone -- and others who
respond while limiting the "Newsgroups: " header to just here, so a
thread which was blocked suddenly appears past my filters.

After crossposting -- there are individuals who are best
filtered out.

And -- because people *respond* to those individuals, you have
to add "Subject: " based filters for a period. Since my system allows
them to expire after a specified time -- I usually use some multiple of
30 days -- depending on how long I think it is likely to continue. And
some words in the "Subject: " header get a "forever" setting.

Some people try marking off topic threads with "OT: ", which
would be fine to filter on -- *except* that Outlook express (and perhaps
some other programs) makes the assumption that any two letters followed
by a colon at the beginning of a "Subject: " header is " " in some
language or other -- and strips it off, replacing it with a single " ".
So -- again, a thread which was being blocked suddenly appears. If you
put something like "[OT]" (with the square brackets) -- *that* will
stick around and continue to work.

One weird thing about TBird is that it will only let you delete your own
posts (at least as far as I can tell).

That is standard for *any* proper newsreader. It does not take
effect only locally -- but instead sends out a "cancel"message which
causes the article to disappear from news servers around the world. It
is intended for the "Opps! I should not have sent that!" situations.
Except that it is possible to forge cancels, and many news servers
refuse to honor them as a result. Add to that -- your cancel message is
chasing the original message, so it will appear for some period of time
on all servers around the world -- and if there is a gateway to mailing
lists (and I suspect to Google's archive as well), those are not news
severs, and they will not (or cannot) honor the cancels.

There is an exception to the "Only the author can cancel a
message" rule. The administrator of the originating news server can
also do so -- to deal with problems created by a rogue user on his
system.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2011-07-24, Laurie Forbes wrote:
On 7/24/2011 5:22 AM, Dennis wrote:
On 24/07/2011 3:20 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Laurie Forbes wrote:

One weird thing about TBird is that it will only let you delete your own
posts (at least as far as I can tell).


That's not weird. You have no right to delete someone else's messages
from usenet. At one time NNTP servers allowed you to delete a post sent
in error, or that was incomplete. Most NNTP servers no longer honor a
cancel message (delete).

[ ... ]

I took it that Laurie meant TB would not allow deletion of the local
copy on your own machine. Which it won't if the message has got past
filters.


Incoming messages that are filtered are effectively deleted - which is
good.

Yes, that is what I was getting at - just get them off my screen.

That should be accomplished by marking them as "read", which is
what filtering does as well. It really is not the same as deleting a
message. And likely Thunderbird is assuming that "Delete" means
"Cancel", so you can only do *that* for your own messages. It must have
some other term for what you really want -- and it may be "mark as
read".

Note that a cross-posted message, with a normal newsreader and a
normal news server, should vanish (be marked as read) in all the
cross-posted newsgroups as seen by *you* and you only. This is so you
don't get presented the same message in all the newsgroups -- if you
read all of them. (It does this by keeping a record of the "Message-ID: "
of each article you read -- and forgets them after a period, so if
something gets re-posted (by perhaps restoring a crashed news server
from a backup), you will see it again if it is past the time that your
newsreader saves that information.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2011-07-24, DougC wrote:
On 7/23/2011 8:05 PM, Laurie Forbes wrote:
Got my Thunderbird filters working (only passes rec.crafts.metalworking)
but unfortunately, most of the posts are still OT (and full of the
typical cretinous blather).

I fear this is hopeless - is there another metal working group (not
necessarily on Usenet) that anyone could recommend?

Laurie Forbes

I use Thunderbird too, and have for a long time.

You shouldn't need a filter to allow "only" a certain newsgroup. You
should only be getting messages from the newsgroups that you are
subscribed to...? You might need to generate and link to a screenshot to
explain this better.

The problem is "crossposting". He wants to limit his newsreader
to displaying only those which have *only* "rec.crafts.metalworking" in
the "Newsgroups: " header. It is a fairly good bet that the more
newsgroups in the header, the more off-topic it will be. Crossposting
has multiple newsgroup names separated only by commas, and with a
single newsgroup, there will be no commas. Good newsreaders have the
ability to filter on the contents of the "Newsgroups: " header, among
others. (I'm also using the "NNTP-Posting-Host: " header to eliminate
spam from various countries which never submit on-topic articles.)

OBTW -- perhaps the problem is in Laurie's use of the filters that
he is asking to "Delete" instead of "Mark as read". Since he
can't "delete" (cancel is the offical NNTP term) things which he
has not posted -- and is unlikely to be trying to get rid of his
own articles. So -- look for the term which means "mark as
read" in the filters and try again.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 17:10:59 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Laurie Forbes on Sun, 24 Jul 2011 10:35:15
-0600 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On 7/24/2011 3:47 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 00:15:16 -0600, Laurie
wrote:
Atta Girl, Laurie. Insult the group, then ask for help.
Why didn't _I_ think of that?g

Perhaps that was a bit harsh but in any case was directed only at those
who post or xpost OT content (why do they do that anyhow? - there are
other much more suitable groups; the ones with "politics" in the name
for example).


Some of us consider this group to be a grand meeting place for people
who are interested in machining, or actively engaged in it in various
aspects.


It is also unfortunately a place for "some of us" not to engage in
reasoned discussion/debate but to hurl insults, threats and invective
and, OT posts or not, that happens with lamentable frequency. That is
the bigger issue IMO.

A recent example:

"Odd..I assumed the readers would be able to follow along. You of course
are in denial, so no matter what I posted, you would simply scrunch up
your widdle face, start squalling and probably **** your pants as you
hunched around in a tight little circle while shrieking and stamping
your widdle feet.

But hey...next time You post..Ill start counting and pointing out your
lies. Its quite easy to do.

But son? Wear a diaper before spewing out one of your lie filled
posts..ok? Cause I really hate the smell of ****."

But I will cease now for fear of being accused of not practicing what I
preach.

Thread drift; like the poor and end times, will be with us always.
Cats, women, and Usenet threads will do as they please, and dogs, men
and the overly rigid will have to just accept those facts.

Speaking of filters, does anyone have any comments about replacing
the OEM paper air filters with those K&N Replacement Air Filters kits?


tschus
pyotr

They work well. But serviceing them takes time to clean then relub them.

A typical air filter is $7. Is that worth 15 minutes of your time?

I have 3 K&R filters on my vehicles, but only because they came with
them.

Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

Gunner Asch on Mon, 25 Jul 2011 23:09:26 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 17:10:59 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Laurie Forbes on Sun, 24 Jul 2011 10:35:15
-0600 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On 7/24/2011 3:47 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 00:15:16 -0600, Laurie
wrote:
Atta Girl, Laurie. Insult the group, then ask for help.
Why didn't _I_ think of that?g

Perhaps that was a bit harsh but in any case was directed only at those
who post or xpost OT content (why do they do that anyhow? - there are
other much more suitable groups; the ones with "politics" in the name
for example).


Some of us consider this group to be a grand meeting place for people
who are interested in machining, or actively engaged in it in various
aspects.


It is also unfortunately a place for "some of us" not to engage in
reasoned discussion/debate but to hurl insults, threats and invective
and, OT posts or not, that happens with lamentable frequency. That is
the bigger issue IMO.

A recent example:

"Odd..I assumed the readers would be able to follow along. You of course
are in denial, so no matter what I posted, you would simply scrunch up
your widdle face, start squalling and probably **** your pants as you
hunched around in a tight little circle while shrieking and stamping
your widdle feet.

But hey...next time You post..Ill start counting and pointing out your
lies. Its quite easy to do.

But son? Wear a diaper before spewing out one of your lie filled
posts..ok? Cause I really hate the smell of ****."

But I will cease now for fear of being accused of not practicing what I
preach.

Thread drift; like the poor and end times, will be with us always.
Cats, women, and Usenet threads will do as they please, and dogs, men
and the overly rigid will have to just accept those facts.

Speaking of filters, does anyone have any comments about replacing
the OEM paper air filters with those K&N Replacement Air Filters kits?


tschus
pyotr

They work well. But serviceing them takes time to clean then relub them.

A typical air filter is $7. Is that worth 15 minutes of your time?

For me, it isn't the upkeep, but the initial cost. "I can't
afford to be 'cost effective'." Which is why I spent four days
replacing a clutch.
Now if I could just get some range time "cheaper than therapy!"
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!