I found that Enco has their parts linked to their shopping cart,
while KBC wants you to type in the whole schlemiel. My $0.02

According to Louis Ohland :
I found that Enco has their parts linked to their shopping cart,
while KBC wants you to type in the whole schlemiel. My $0.02

Can't you cut and paste?

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Louis Ohland wrote:
I found that Enco has their parts linked to their shopping cart, while
KBC wants you to type in the whole schlemiel. My $0.02

Use the search function.

Type in the name of what you want. Size. Volume. Whatever.

Look at results.

Click on item on list, to see catalog page to confirm item.

Click on "add" to add to your shopping list.

Works fine for me.


Going from page to page is only fun in a paper catalog.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

No. The page seems to be only an image. No embedded text.

DoN. Nichols wrote:
According to Louis Ohland :
I found that Enco has their parts linked to their shopping cart,
while KBC wants you to type in the whole schlemiel. My $0.02

Can't you cut and paste?

Enjoy,
DoN.

If I knew exactly what I was looking for, this would work. I find it
much less confusing if I can see the item while choosing.


Trevor Jones wrote:
Louis Ohland wrote:
I found that Enco has their parts linked to their shopping cart,
while KBC wants you to type in the whole schlemiel. My $0.02

Use the search function.

Type in the name of what you want. Size. Volume. Whatever.

Look at results.

Click on item on list, to see catalog page to confirm item.

Click on "add" to add to your shopping list.

Works fine for me.


Going from page to page is only fun in a paper catalog.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

Louis Ohland wrote:
If I knew exactly what I was looking for, this would work. I find it
much less confusing if I can see the item while choosing.



In what way do you mean? You don't know what exactly you are looking for?


The setup works pretty well for keeping our shop stocked.
Need drills, search drill. Peruse list. Modify search to include size
and material. Click. Add.

Need 1/2" endmills? Search it. Add it to the list. It does help to
keep the site open on two pages.

You quickly learn the "language" of the site, and how to find what you
need, I have learned.

For just browsing and cruising through, the paper catalog still beats
any web page setup I have ever found.

It's not a perfect system, but it works OK, and it's about the best
available to me here in Canada, without having to deal with cross border
issues and brokerage fee's. The quality of the goods on offer is a step
up from Enco, in many cases, as well.

Just another thing to learn.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

On Jul 31, 8:27 am, Trevor Jones wrote:
Louis Ohland wrote:
If I knew exactly what I was looking for, this would work. I find it
much less confusing if I can see the item while choosing.

In what way do you mean? You don't know what exactly you are looking for?

The setup works pretty well for keeping our shop stocked.
Need drills, search drill. Peruse list. Modify search to include size
and material. Click. Add.

Need 1/2" endmills? Search it. Add it to the list. It does help to
keep the site open on two pages.

You quickly learn the "language" of the site, and how to find what you
need, I have learned.

For just browsing and cruising through, the paper catalog still beats
any web page setup I have ever found.

It's not a perfect system, but it works OK, and it's about the best
available to me here in Canada, without having to deal with cross border
issues and brokerage fee's. The quality of the goods on offer is a step
up from Enco, in many cases, as well.

Just another thing to learn.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

Having used both it TOTALLY agree with Trevor and having had a PROLEM
with a KBC product and seen how they deal with customer service Issues
(they sent me a rusty russian level) the only way i could be made to
"use-enco" again is when they have the AXA sized lathe toolposts on
for $100 with 5-6 holders. (1/3rd the price of any i've seen imported
to canada)

I always prefer paper catalogs to "shopping carts"
when i call the order desk they are NOT machinists but they have a
good lookup nonetheless and those on the receiving end SEEM to know at
least a bit about tools. For a place that COULD have been turned into
a pure call centre dealing with a person with even a basic
understanding of the tools and products they sell is a very good thing

but tey have a very good selection of tools they are prompt and they
deal with "issues" very well

the only think i waish is that they had a few more "flags" If i cant
buy Canadian or American i'd LIKE to buy tools for the G7 if possible
before i buy a chinese tool. I am the type o person who WILL pay a
premium for "made in canada" but admittedly there IS a limit, i wont
pay double for the same thing to the same fit and finish

Not being sarcastic, but I was unaware that Canada has much
industrial capacity for turning out manufactured goods. I know Canada
exports wheat, timber, Red Green Show, and bad beer.

Open my eyes to decent Canadian tool makers.

On a related note, I cannot see why it is impossible for continental
american machinery manufacturers to compete with the pac rim
manufacturers, except for the unfortunate existence of punitive government.

Brent wrote:
the only think i waish is that they had a few more "flags" If i cant
buy Canadian or American i'd LIKE to buy tools for the G7 if possible
before i buy a chinese tool. I am the type o person who WILL pay a
premium for "made in canada" but admittedly there IS a limit, i wont
pay double for the same thing to the same fit and finish

A list of places I'd rather buy from, since the manufacturers operate
under business law and there is legal recourse or protection. If I've
overlooked somebody, please do tell.

Austria
Canada
Czech Republic (oh, Skoda!)
Japan
Germany
Poland (Bison is pretty damn good)
Taiwan (they can't range us with ballistic missiles)
UK
Ukraine?
US

Louis Ohland wrote:
the only think i waish is that they had a few more "flags" If i cant
buy Canadian or American i'd LIKE to buy tools for the G7 if possible
before i buy a chinese tool.

On Jul 31, 9:30 am, Louis Ohland wrote:
Not being sarcastic, but I was unaware that Canada has much
industrial capacity for turning out manufactured goods. I know Canada
exports wheat, timber, Red Green Show, and bad beer.

Open my eyes to decent Canadian tool makers.

On a related note, I cannot see why it is impossible for continental
american machinery manufacturers to compete with the pac rim
manufacturers, except for the unfortunate existence of punitive government.

Brent wrote:
the only think i waish is that they had a few more "flags" If i cant
buy Canadian or American i'd LIKE to buy tools for the G7 if possible
before i buy a chinese tool. I am the type o person who WILL pay a
premium for "made in canada" but admittedly there IS a limit, i wont
pay double for the same thing to the same fit and finish

There isnt a LOT of finished industrial products but there is a lOT of
backgound work. I once heard that 60% of the journeyman moldmakers on
earth are based in windsor ontario. but remember too canada has just
slightly more than 1/8th the population of the us in 1.5 times the
area. We ARE better known for our resources but i general ther is at
leat ONE canadian firm making one of everything from Underwear
(Stanfields) to outdoor products (Mountain equipment Co-op) to milling
machines (excello) to Vehicles (Stryker LAV's and LAV 4's are built in
London Ontario at a General Dynamics factory) and the canadian auto
indistry has multiple factories DESPITE the cutbacks. (Canadian
automotive jobs have stayed stable, The more the Big 3 Cut the more
the foreign companies like honda hire)

Agreed we are NOT known for our heavy manufacturing but it IS there.
If i had a choice i'd RATHER own old canadian machine tools to old
American but i will take my Index mill over a new imported one any day
ESPECIALLY for what i paid for it.

On Jul 31, 9:36 am, Louis Ohland wrote:
A list of places I'd rather buy from, since the manufacturers operate
under business law and there is legal recourse or protection. If I've
overlooked somebody, please do tell.

Austria
Canada
Czech Republic (oh, Skoda!)
Japan
Germany
Poland (Bison is pretty damn good)
Taiwan (they can't range us with ballistic missiles)
UK
Ukraine?
US

Louis Ohland wrote:
the only think i waish is that they had a few more "flags" If i cant
buy Canadian or American i'd LIKE to buy tools for the G7 if possible
before i buy a chinese tool.

Start with the G7

USA
Canada
UK
France
Italy
Japan
Germany

All are Industrialized democracies with proper protections for the
workers.

I'm iffy about russia since it always HAS been a meat grinder against
its workers

Pretty sparse. But I did find what I knew was true for all these years -
Canadian World Domination http://cwd.ptbcanadian.net/index2.html

I knew the movie "Canadian Bacon" was based on facts...

Brent wrote:
On Jul 31, 9:30 am, Louis Ohland wrote:
Not being sarcastic, but I was unaware that Canada has much
industrial capacity for turning out manufactured goods. I know Canada
exports wheat, timber, Red Green Show, and bad beer.

Open my eyes to decent Canadian tool makers.

On a related note, I cannot see why it is impossible for continental
american machinery manufacturers to compete with the pac rim
manufacturers, except for the unfortunate existence of punitive government.

Brent wrote:
the only think i waish is that they had a few more "flags" If i cant
buy Canadian or American i'd LIKE to buy tools for the G7 if possible
before i buy a chinese tool. I am the type o person who WILL pay a
premium for "made in canada" but admittedly there IS a limit, i wont
pay double for the same thing to the same fit and finish

There isnt a LOT of finished industrial products but there is a lOT of
backgound work. I once heard that 60% of the journeyman moldmakers on
earth are based in windsor ontario. but remember too canada has just
slightly more than 1/8th the population of the us in 1.5 times the
area. We ARE better known for our resources but i general ther is at
leat ONE canadian firm making one of everything from Underwear
(Stanfields) to outdoor products (Mountain equipment Co-op) to milling
machines (excello) to Vehicles (Stryker LAV's and LAV 4's are built in
London Ontario at a General Dynamics factory) and the canadian auto
indistry has multiple factories DESPITE the cutbacks. (Canadian
automotive jobs have stayed stable, The more the Big 3 Cut the more
the foreign companies like honda hire)

Agreed we are NOT known for our heavy manufacturing but it IS there.
If i had a choice i'd RATHER own old canadian machine tools to old
American but i will take my Index mill over a new imported one any day
ESPECIALLY for what i paid for it.

On Jul 31, 9:30 am, Louis Ohland wrote:
Not being sarcastic, but I was unaware that Canada has much
industrial capacity for turning out manufactured goods. I know Canada
exports wheat, timber, Red Green Show, and bad beer.

Open my eyes to decent Canadian tool makers.

On a related note, I cannot see why it is impossible for continental
american machinery manufacturers to compete with the pac rim
manufacturers, except for the unfortunate existence of punitive government.

Brent wrote:
the only think i waish is that they had a few more "flags" If i cant
buy Canadian or American i'd LIKE to buy tools for the G7 if possible
before i buy a chinese tool. I am the type o person who WILL pay a
premium for "made in canada" but admittedly there IS a limit, i wont
pay double for the same thing to the same fit and finish

And before i forget Tennsmith Make Sheet Metal tools in windsor
Excello Made mills in London
And Standard Modern makes lathes in missisauga

Bombardier/CanAm are a HUGE manufacturer once you figure in the Rail
and Aviation Division but also the Bombardier/CanAm Atv's and they are
all Canadian

IIRC, the French government is actively involved in industrial
espionage. Other than cheese, whine, and sultry women, is there anything
of note made in France that is in demand?

Italy? Fast cars, good wine, fine weapons. Other than that, what is
their industrial base?

Note I said Ukraine with ???, not Russia. I've seen some decent stuff
from there (adjustable tang sight with windage/elevation), but no
machine tools to speak of. FWIW, I think Belorussia (sp?) is a basket case.

Brent wrote:
Start with the G7

USA
Canada
UK
France
Italy
Japan
Germany

All are Industrialized democracies with proper protections for the
workers.

I'm iffy about russia since it always HAS been a meat grinder against
its workers

http://www.atistellram.com/

Stellram® is a globally integrated technology leader in the development
of metalcutting answers for turning, milling, threading, drilling and
grooving applications.

Brent wrote:
On Jul 31, 9:30 am, Louis Ohland wrote:
Not being sarcastic, but I was unaware that Canada has much
industrial capacity for turning out manufactured goods. I know Canada
exports wheat, timber, Red Green Show, and bad beer.

Open my eyes to decent Canadian tool makers.

On a related note, I cannot see why it is impossible for continental
american machinery manufacturers to compete with the pac rim
manufacturers, except for the unfortunate existence of punitive government.

Brent wrote:
the only think i waish is that they had a few more "flags" If i cant
buy Canadian or American i'd LIKE to buy tools for the G7 if possible
before i buy a chinese tool. I am the type o person who WILL pay a
premium for "made in canada" but admittedly there IS a limit, i wont
pay double for the same thing to the same fit and finish

And before i forget Tennsmith Make Sheet Metal tools in windsor
Excello Made mills in London
And Standard Modern makes lathes in missisauga

Bombardier/CanAm are a HUGE manufacturer once you figure in the Rail
and Aviation Division but also the Bombardier/CanAm Atv's and they are
all Canadian

Iscar?

http://www.iscar.ca/

Louis Ohland wrote:
http://www.atistellram.com/

Stellram® is a globally integrated technology leader in the development
of metalcutting answers for turning, milling, threading, drilling and
grooving applications.

Brent wrote:
On Jul 31, 9:30 am, Louis Ohland wrote:
Not being sarcastic, but I was unaware that Canada has much
industrial capacity for turning out manufactured goods. I know Canada
exports wheat, timber, Red Green Show, and bad beer.

Open my eyes to decent Canadian tool makers.

On a related note, I cannot see why it is impossible for continental
american machinery manufacturers to compete with the pac rim
manufacturers, except for the unfortunate existence of punitive
government.

Brent wrote:
the only think i waish is that they had a few more "flags" If i cant
buy Canadian or American i'd LIKE to buy tools for the G7 if possible
before i buy a chinese tool. I am the type o person who WILL pay a
premium for "made in canada" but admittedly there IS a limit, i wont
pay double for the same thing to the same fit and finish

And before i forget Tennsmith Make Sheet Metal tools in windsor
Excello Made mills in London
And Standard Modern makes lathes in missisauga

Bombardier/CanAm are a HUGE manufacturer once you figure in the Rail
and Aviation Division but also the Bombardier/CanAm Atv's and they are
all Canadian

I dimly remember the canadian jet fighter that was scrapped back in the
late 60s early 70s. What was it?

Nick Hull wrote:
In article ,
Louis Ohland wrote:

Not being sarcastic, but I was unaware that Canada has much
industrial capacity for turning out manufactured goods. I know Canada
exports wheat, timber, Red Green Show, and bad beer.

Canada certainly makes airplanes

"Brent" wrote in message
ps.com...

There isnt a LOT of finished industrial products but there is a lOT of
backgound work. I once heard that 60% of the journeyman moldmakers on
earth are based in windsor ontario. but remember too canada has just
slightly more than 1/8th the population of the us in 1.5 times the
area.

Canadian automotive-parts producers do a lot of volume, both for car
manufacturers in Canada and in the US. The industries that serve them -- in
particular the moldmakers and other toolmakers in Windsor -- are some of the
best and do a *lot* of volume.

The actual volume has something to do with the state of the $US versus the
$CAN at any point in time. The same work can be done on either side of the
border.

The percentage of GDP represented by manufacturing in Canada is around 18%.
In the US, it's 15%.

--
Ed Huntress

In article ,
Louis Ohland wrote:

Not being sarcastic, but I was unaware that Canada has much
industrial capacity for turning out manufactured goods. I know Canada
exports wheat, timber, Red Green Show, and bad beer.

Canada certainly makes airplanes

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 08:30:35 -0500, Louis Ohland
wrote:

On a related note, I cannot see why it is impossible for continental
american machinery manufacturers to compete with the pac rim
manufacturers, except for the unfortunate existence of punitive government.
==========
While bungling and kleptocratic government may play a part, in
the main the problem is incompetent executives who know
everything about management theory and nothing at all about
machine tools or manufacturing. Germany and Austria appear to be
able to maintain a viable machine tool industry, with
considerable exports.

In machine tools, as in much of manufacturing, your reputation,
and your accumulated expertise (which in many cases is in the
heads and hands of your hourly employees) is all you have.

When you lose (or scrap) these for the quick dollar, you then
have nothing. The American machine tool industry took
generations to create and only a decade to destroy, when the
leaders and innovators were replaced by "suits" with the goal of
maximizing short term paper profits (and their bonuses).
Apparently they never heard (or at least understood) the story
about the goose that laid the golden eggs, and what happened when
she was cut open to get all the eggs at one time…

A good read on what it took to create the machine tool industry
in the US is a reprint by Lindsay Books "English and American
Tool Builders: The men who created machine tools" by Joseph
Wickham Roe ISBN0-917914-73-2 (apparently no longer available at
Lindsay's)
Click on
http://www.amazon.com/English-Americ...897945&sr=11-1

http://finderscheapers.com/books/1/4...s/Compare.aspx

You can also check any of the sites that locate books by ISBN
numbers.

Unka' George [George McDuffee]
============
Merchants have no country.
The mere spot they stand on
does not constitute so strong an attachment
as that from which they draw their gains.

Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826),
U.S. president. Letter, 17 March 1814.

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...

When you lose (or scrap) these for the quick dollar, you then
have nothing. The American machine tool industry took
generations to create and only a decade to destroy, when the
leaders and innovators were replaced by "suits" with the goal of
maximizing short term paper profits (and their bonuses).
Apparently they never heard (or at least understood) the story
about the goose that laid the golden eggs, and what happened when
she was cut open to get all the eggs at one time.

A major issue was that the American machine tool industry was based on a
business model that had remained unchanged for nearly a century, and it got
caught short when changes came along. The capacity of US builders was geared
toward the "dips" in sales. When sales climbed, they let their backlogs grow
(Moore Special Tool had a 32-month backlog on jig grinders when I was an
editor at American Machinist).

Meantime, aided by the banks who effectively owned them and by subsidized
interest rates by their government, Japanese builders kept building their
capacity and warehoused unsold machines in the western states of the US.
When the upturn came, you could have a LeBlond in six months, or a Mori
Seiki next week. The Japanese builders cleaned the clocks of the US builders
on every upswing for nearly a decade.

US builders now are a lot smarter, quicker, and better financed -- the ones
that are still standing.

--
Ed Huntress

Brent wrote:

the only think i waish is that they had a few more "flags" If i cant
buy Canadian or American i'd LIKE to buy tools for the G7 if possible
before i buy a chinese tool. I am the type o person who WILL pay a
premium for "made in canada" but admittedly there IS a limit, i wont
pay double for the same thing to the same fit and finish


I too would rather see the actual country of origin specified.

"Import" covers too much ground.

I do not have the same expectations, dealing with imports from some
countries as others. A lot of the eastern Europe tooling was a very good
buy (gone up in price, though), while some of the US and Canadian
labelled stuff was as bad as the low end Chinese product.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

Louis Ohland wrote:

Not being sarcastic, but I was unaware that Canada has much industrial
capacity for turning out manufactured goods. I know Canada exports
wheat, timber, Red Green Show, and bad beer.

Open my eyes to decent Canadian tool makers.

On a related note, I cannot see why it is impossible for continental
american machinery manufacturers to compete with the pac rim
manufacturers, except for the unfortunate existence of punitive government.

Brent wrote:

the only think i waish is that they had a few more "flags" If i cant
buy Canadian or American i'd LIKE to buy tools for the G7 if possible
before i buy a chinese tool. I am the type o person who WILL pay a
premium for "made in canada" but admittedly there IS a limit, i wont
pay double for the same thing to the same fit and finish


Standard Modern lathes is about what's left, if you mean machine tools.

Nothing special, but still able to survive.

Our industrial capacity is being run down and outsourced by graduates
of the same fine business schools that are responsible for a lot of the
US's business going offshore. We have a smaller population to absorb the
losses. shrug

I'd lay a good bet that there is a lot of stuff that is local to you,
or relatively so, that you are unaware of. That you are not seeing the
stuff from up here, is by no means an indicator that it does not exist.

I was a spectator at the manufacturing tech. show at Toronto last
year. Not huge, but I was there for 8 hours, and felt I could easilly
have spent two more days there in order to see most of the displays and
get a reasonable feel for what was of interest
http://www.cmts.ca/floorplan.asp

There was a similar, though smaller show in Edmonton AB this year.

I met a gentleman from an outfit outside of Calgary that is grinding
several tons a year of custon carbide endmills and reamers for
industrial use. He is one example of many entrepaneurial types that I
met that are running large dollar shops, pretty much under the radar.
From his client list, I would find it tough to think that at some
point, you have not handled some product that was downstream of some of
his cutters.

Bad beer??? You prefer yours without either flavor or alcohol content?

You loss. More for us!! :-)

I will admit that some of the smaller US breweries product has been
pretty good, but the mass market swill is...swill. I can say about the
same for our mass market stuff, too, if I want to be truthful about it,
but I'll take our swill over yours! :-P



Cheers
Trevor Jones

Louis Ohland wrote:

I dimly remember the canadian jet fighter that was scrapped back in the
late 60s early 70s. What was it?


Avro Arrow. Killed off by the Diefenbaker government, and still being
debated in conspiracy-theory tones.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CF-105_Arrow

Also the Canadair CF-100 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_CF-100

Pretty long list of companies that are not around any more, too. Same
as in the States. Some dead of natural mismanagement, some of takeovers
by the competition.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 22:48:29 GMT, Trevor Jones
wrote:

Brent wrote:

the only think i waish is that they had a few more "flags" If i cant
buy Canadian or American i'd LIKE to buy tools for the G7 if possible
before i buy a chinese tool. I am the type o person who WILL pay a
premium for "made in canada" but admittedly there IS a limit, i wont
pay double for the same thing to the same fit and finish


I too would rather see the actual country of origin specified.

"Import" covers too much ground.


I'll second that. I too would like to see the country of origin
spec'd. in all catalog and web site listings.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 23:06:55 GMT, Trevor Jones
wrote:

snip
I will admit that some of the smaller US breweries product
has been
pretty good, but the mass market swill is...swill. I can say about the
same for our mass market stuff, too, if I want to be truthful about it,
but I'll take our swill over yours! :-P

Cheers
Trevor Jones

Free beer is the best. Never diss a free beer, at least not
as long as the donor is within earshot

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

Is alcohol God's way of showing us he cares?

Leon Fisk wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 23:06:55 GMT, Trevor Jones
wrote:

snip
I will admit that some of the smaller US breweries product
has been
pretty good, but the mass market swill is...swill. I can say about the
same for our mass market stuff, too, if I want to be truthful about it,
but I'll take our swill over yours! :-P

Cheers
Trevor Jones

Free beer is the best. Never diss a free beer, at least not
as long as the donor is within earshot

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 15:10:46 -0500, Louis Ohland
wrote:


Leon Fisk wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 23:06:55 GMT, Trevor Jones
wrote:

snip
I will admit that some of the smaller US breweries product
has been
pretty good, but the mass market swill is...swill. I can say about the
same for our mass market stuff, too, if I want to be truthful about it,
but I'll take our swill over yours! :-P

Cheers
Trevor Jones

Free beer is the best. Never diss a free beer, at least not
as long as the donor is within earshot

Is alcohol God's way of showing us he cares?

Don't know about God, but I know that beer and munchies
(Flavored pretzels, see:

http://www.amazon.com/Snyders-Hanove.../dp/B000G7VYSY

this url) have kept me going for several years already

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

Makes me think of the one time I was at the bakery in Lititz, PA. Fresh
pretzels straight from their brick ovens with sweet honey mustard... As
Homer would say "Mmm, pretzels!" munch, munch, munch...

Leon Fisk wrote:
On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 15:10:46 -0500, Louis Ohland
wrote:

Leon Fisk wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 23:06:55 GMT, Trevor Jones
wrote:

snip
I will admit that some of the smaller US breweries product
has been
pretty good, but the mass market swill is...swill. I can say about the
same for our mass market stuff, too, if I want to be truthful about it,
but I'll take our swill over yours! :-P

Cheers
Trevor Jones
Free beer is the best. Never diss a free beer, at least not
as long as the donor is within earshot

Is alcohol God's way of showing us he cares?

Don't know about God, but I know that beer and munchies
(Flavored pretzels, see:

http://www.amazon.com/Snyders-Hanove.../dp/B000G7VYSY

this url) have kept me going for several years already

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 15:29:06 -0500, Louis Ohland
wrote:

Leon Fisk wrote:
On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 15:10:46 -0500, Louis Ohland
wrote:

Leon Fisk wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 23:06:55 GMT, Trevor Jones
wrote:

snip
I will admit that some of the smaller US breweries product
has been
pretty good, but the mass market swill is...swill. I can say about the
same for our mass market stuff, too, if I want to be truthful about it,
but I'll take our swill over yours! :-P

Cheers
Trevor Jones
Free beer is the best. Never diss a free beer, at least not
as long as the donor is within earshot

Is alcohol God's way of showing us he cares?

Don't know about God, but I know that beer and munchies
(Flavored pretzels, see:

http://www.amazon.com/Snyders-Hanove.../dp/B000G7VYSY

this url) have kept me going for several years already

Makes me think of the one time I was at the bakery in Lititz, PA. Fresh
pretzels straight from their brick ovens with sweet honey mustard... As
Homer would say "Mmm, pretzels!" munch, munch, munch...


If you like snacks similar to these, that is a decent enough
price (local store is $2.69 10oz bag). They have a few other
flavors, the Honey Mustard Onion pieces are excellent too
(NOT the nibblers, too dry, ack-phooey!).

I'm going to be in deep doo-doo if they ever stop making
these, staple food, washed down with a brewski, burp...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

But Leon, to eat the dry pretzel is somewhat like american beer compared
to German beer (not the Heineken exported to the US). Like making love
in a canoe, is it not?

Once you go with a soft, hot pretzel, you can never go back... The
problem I have is finding soft, hot pretzels and beer where I don't have
to drive home. Otherwise, the Essenhaus in Madison, WI would be a good
place to go.


Leon Fisk wrote:
Makes me think of the one time I was at the bakery in Lititz, PA. Fresh
pretzels straight from their brick ovens with sweet honey mustard... As
Homer would say "Mmm, pretzels!" munch, munch, munch...
If you like snacks similar to these, that is a decent enough
price (local store is $2.69 10oz bag). They have a few other
flavors, the Honey Mustard Onion pieces are excellent too
(NOT the nibblers, too dry, ack-phooey!).

I'm going to be in deep doo-doo if they ever stop making
these, staple food, washed down with a brewski, burp...

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 15:49:03 -0500, Louis Ohland
wrote:

Leon Fisk wrote:
Makes me think of the one time I was at the bakery in Lititz, PA. Fresh
pretzels straight from their brick ovens with sweet honey mustard... As
Homer would say "Mmm, pretzels!" munch, munch, munch...
If you like snacks similar to these, that is a decent enough
price (local store is $2.69 10oz bag). They have a few other
flavors, the Honey Mustard Onion pieces are excellent too
(NOT the nibblers, too dry, ack-phooey!).

I'm going to be in deep doo-doo if they ever stop making
these, staple food, washed down with a brewski, burp...

But Leon, to eat the dry pretzel is somewhat like american beer compared
to German beer (not the Heineken exported to the US). Like making love
in a canoe, is it not?

Once you go with a soft, hot pretzel, you can never go back... The
problem I have is finding soft, hot pretzels and beer where I don't have
to drive home. Otherwise, the Essenhaus in Madison, WI would be a good
place to go.


If you haven't tried these type of pretzels yet, there isn't
anything else like them... Most of the good/bigger grocery
stores carry them.

I've been/toured Capital Brewery some years ago. They were
located in Middleton I believe? They still around? Answered
my own question, google found their website:

http://www.capital-brewery.com/ourbeers/index.html

Damn that Dark Doppelbock sounds good. I shouldn't have
looked... I'm pretty sure I brought some of that home with
me to enjoy, good stuff! There just isn't anything like
fresh brew right from the source. Even the worst stuff they
make beats any of the best mega-brews.

I have to settle for mega-brew nowadays. I just don't have
the budget to throw at the yummy stuff right now. Sigh...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

Ale, man, ale's the stuff to drink
For fellows whom it hurts to think.
A. E. Housman (1859-1936), British poet, classical scholar. A
Shropshire Lad, no. 62 (1896).
=================
On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 15:10:46 -0500, Louis Ohland
wrote:

Is alcohol God's way of showing us he cares?

Leon Fisk wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 23:06:55 GMT, Trevor Jones
wrote:

snip
I will admit that some of the smaller US breweries product
has been
pretty good, but the mass market swill is...swill. I can say about the
same for our mass market stuff, too, if I want to be truthful about it,
but I'll take our swill over yours! :-P

Cheers
Trevor Jones

Free beer is the best. Never diss a free beer, at least not
as long as the donor is within earshot


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
============
Merchants have no country.
The mere spot they stand on
does not constitute so strong an attachment
as that from which they draw their gains.

Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826),
U.S. president. Letter, 17 March 1814.

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 23:06:55 GMT, Trevor Jones
wrote:

I will admit that some of the smaller US breweries product has been
pretty good, but the mass market swill is...swill. I can say about the
same for our mass market stuff, too, if I want to be truthful about it,
but I'll take our swill over yours! :-P
=========
FWIW --

I had a chance to talk to a real live German brewmeister for a
few minutes while on a tour of the Bush Brewery in St Louis.

I asked him if this was the best beer they could brew [Michelob].

He thought for a second, and then told me no, but its the best
beer we can sell.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
============
Merchants have no country.
The mere spot they stand on
does not constitute so strong an attachment
as that from which they draw their gains.

Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826),
U.S. president. Letter, 17 March 1814.

Louis Ohland wrote:
Is alcohol God's way of showing us he cares?

Leon Fisk wrote:

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 23:06:55 GMT, Trevor Jones
wrote:

snip
I will admit that some of the smaller US breweries product
has been

pretty good, but the mass market swill is...swill. I can say about
the same for our mass market stuff, too, if I want to be truthful
about it, but I'll take our swill over yours! :-P

Cheers
Trevor Jones


Free beer is the best. Never diss a free beer, at least not
as long as the donor is within earshot

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to prosper."

A quote from a famous American, Ben Franklin.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 16:44:36 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:



If you like snacks similar to these, that is a decent enough
price (local store is $2.69 10oz bag). They have a few other
flavors, the Honey Mustard Onion pieces are excellent too
(NOT the nibblers, too dry, ack-phooey!).

I'm going to be in deep doo-doo if they ever stop making
these, staple food, washed down with a brewski, burp...
Pickled eggs/sausages anyone?
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 23:57:04 GMT, Trevor Jones
wrote:


"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to
be happy

A quote from a famous American, Ben Franklin.

Cheers
Trevor Jones
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada