I am preparing a research assignment for my students on this subject.
Looking for suggestions as to names which might be used as search
terms or links to sites that would be appropriate.

Also, I am not remembering the names that were involved in the
creation of the first NC machines back in the late forties/early
fifties. I know that the info is back in my head somewhere but it is
not coming forward. Help would be appreciated!

I don't want togfive the kids everything obviously but I do need to
give them enough to get started It is tough to do research on a
subject when you don't know enough about it to even know what
questions to ask.

Thanks for your help!

Errol Groff
Instructor, Machine Tool Department
H.H. Ellis Tech
613 Upper Maple Street
Danielson, CT 06239

860 774 8511 x1811

http://pages.cthome.net/errol.groff/

http://newenglandmodelengineeringsociety.org/

In article ,
says...
I am preparing a research assignment for my students on this subject.
Looking for suggestions as to names which might be used as search
terms or links to sites that would be appropriate.

Also, I am not remembering the names that were involved in the
creation of the first NC machines back in the late forties/early
fifties. I know that the info is back in my head somewhere but it is
not coming forward. Help would be appreciated!


Giddings & Lewis is the first that comes to mind, perhaps
Warner & Swasey.

Giddings & Lewis claims they were first in this company
history.

http://www.glcastings.com/ne/basenav/dateline.asp

Ned Simmons

http://www.lathes.co.uk/page21.html
this is a good site

In article , Errol Groff says...

I am preparing a research assignment for my students on this subject.
Looking for suggestions as to names which might be used as search
terms or links to sites that would be appropriate.

Hmm. Hardinge, Cataract. Seneca Falls, Barnes. Pittler.
Pratt and Whitney.

The earliest NC machine I saw was a Csip horizontal overarm
jig borer, running off of paper tape. I think it was 50s
vintage.

Photos of old lathe, NOT for sale:

http://www.geocities.com/noramm10566/59DESCR.html

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Errol Groff wrote:

I am preparing a research assignment for my students on this subject.

Errol:

The history of Machine tools seems like it would be a interesting
subject, BUT... If I were in a limited time machine shop class for the
purpose of increasing my skill level with the hope of becoming an
employable entry level machinist, I think *I'd* (and probably
prospective shop owners might also) be more interested in just HOW to
edge find or indicator sweep my parts rather than knowing WHO designed
the first edge finder, or indicator, or CNC.
Don't take this wrong, I don't mean to be overly critical here, I'm
just giving you a view from a job-shop productivity standpoint. If I
were interviewing two prospective entry level apprentices I'd be more
inclined to hire the one that showed a knowledge of the practical
application of theory over one that had historical knowledge.

--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:59:48 GMT, BottleBob
wrote:

Don't take this wrong, I don't mean to be overly critical here, I'm
just giving you a view from a job-shop productivity standpoint. If I
were interviewing two prospective entry level apprentices I'd be more
inclined to hire the one that showed a knowledge of the practical
application of theory over one that had historical knowledge.

And I couldn't agree more. BUT, I am instructing in a vo-tech system
that is run, largely, by academic types and there are things that we
are told to do and ways in which to do them. This sort of assignment
is one of those things.

Errol

In article , Errol Groff says...

And I couldn't agree more. BUT, I am instructing in a vo-tech system
that is run, largely, by academic types and there are things that we
are told to do and ways in which to do them. This sort of assignment
is one of those things.

You have a clear eye on "who's paying the bills" and
if that person says to do something, they don't really
want to hear how it's so much better to do something
else. Acceptable answers a

a) it's done, or

b) I'll have it done by X.

Regards - Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:31:09 +0000, Errol Groff wrote:

I am preparing a research assignment for my students on this subject.
Looking for suggestions as to names which might be used as search
terms or links to sites that would be appropriate.

You may find this site of interest:

http://www.gsn.uk.com/


--
Tony Hursh
Need to find your home IP remotely? http://wheresmybox.com

"Errol Groff" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:59:48 GMT, BottleBob
wrote:

Don't take this wrong, I don't mean to be overly critical here, I'm
just giving you a view from a job-shop productivity standpoint. If I
were interviewing two prospective entry level apprentices I'd be more
inclined to hire the one that showed a knowledge of the practical
application of theory over one that had historical knowledge.

And I couldn't agree more. BUT, I am instructing in a vo-tech system
that is run, largely, by academic types and there are things that we
are told to do and ways in which to do them. This sort of assignment
is one of those things.

Errol

Start with Leonardo DaVinci?

Errol Groff wrote:

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:59:48 GMT, BottleBob
wrote:

If I
were interviewing two prospective entry level apprentices I'd be more
inclined to hire the one that showed a knowledge of the practical
application of theory over one that had historical knowledge.

And I couldn't agree more. BUT, I am instructing in a vo-tech system
that is run, largely, by academic types and there are things that we
are told to do and ways in which to do them. This sort of assignment
is one of those things.


Errol:

Ahh, I see. So you have educational constraints just as job shops have
machining constraints spelled out by the customer. g

Here are a couple of thread titles with subject matter that touched on
the history of CNC:

"history of CNC"

"History Channel /Cincinnati Museum/ machine tool history"



--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob

Take a look at the American Precision Museum in Vermont web site

http://www.americanprecision.org/Default2.html

BottleBob wrote:

Errol Groff wrote:

I am preparing a research assignment for my students on this subject.

Errol:

The history of Machine tools seems like it would be a interesting
subject, BUT... If I were in a limited time machine shop class for the
purpose of increasing my skill level with the hope of becoming an
employable entry level machinist, I think *I'd* (and probably
prospective shop owners might also) be more interested in just HOW to
edge find or indicator sweep my parts rather than knowing WHO designed
the first edge finder, or indicator, or CNC.
Don't take this wrong, I don't mean to be overly critical here, I'm
just giving you a view from a job-shop productivity standpoint. If I
were interviewing two prospective entry level apprentices I'd be more
inclined to hire the one that showed a knowledge of the practical
application of theory over one that had historical knowledge.

--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob


Errol,

that topic could be covered in another class. Maybe make it part of the
english curriculum. Just as the math classes should be oriented to
machining. It would make you job easier if you only had to fill their
brains with the actual machine operations.

John

Don't forget "Jacquard" of loom.

Hate to mention this, but we received word last week that G&L's foundry is
closing permanently.

There is some possibility that our foundry would get some of the work. I
work at the former Cincinnati Milling Machine Co. (or Milacron) foundry, now
known as Cast-Fab Technologies, Inc.

If you'd like to see some historical photos of the machine tool industry,
please go to:

http://memory.loc.gov/

Click on the search link and type into the search bar "Milling machines and
machine castings" WITH the quotes. You will get a hit for a number of
photos of the foundry in 1942. The foundry is not identified, but it is the
Cincinnati Milling Machine Co. foundry. The reason it was not identified is
because it was early on during WW2 and there were fears that sabotage or
bombing would take place so the foundry name was kept secret.

Next week the auctioneers will be at the machine shop and everything must
go. The foundry is the only part left still producing. Of course we use
electric furnaces instead of the cupolas and furan sand instead of green
sand but the building itself is still the same.

Mark Fields


"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
I am preparing a research assignment for my students on this subject.
Looking for suggestions as to names which might be used as search
terms or links to sites that would be appropriate.

Also, I am not remembering the names that were involved in the
creation of the first NC machines back in the late forties/early
fifties. I know that the info is back in my head somewhere but it is
not coming forward. Help would be appreciated!


Giddings & Lewis is the first that comes to mind, perhaps
Warner & Swasey.

Giddings & Lewis claims they were first in this company
history.

http://www.glcastings.com/ne/basenav/dateline.asp

Ned Simmons

that topic could be covered in another class. Maybe make
it part of the english curriculum.

IMO, this would be the right approach. Those interested in
machining attend a english class that has been tailored to
their curriculum.

Just as the math classes should be oriented to machining.

Again, agreed. Wish I had a choice like this when I was in
high school.

Excellent post... almost makes up for your short sighted
anti-union one.

LOL

:)

jon









"john" wrote in message
...
BottleBob wrote:

Errol Groff wrote:

I am preparing a research assignment for my students on this subject.

Errol:

The history of Machine tools seems like it would be a
interesting
subject, BUT... If I were in a limited time machine shop class for the
purpose of increasing my skill level with the hope of becoming an
employable entry level machinist, I think *I'd* (and probably
prospective shop owners might also) be more interested in just HOW to
edge find or indicator sweep my parts rather than knowing WHO designed
the first edge finder, or indicator, or CNC.
Don't take this wrong, I don't mean to be overly critical here,
I'm
just giving you a view from a job-shop productivity standpoint. If I
were interviewing two prospective entry level apprentices I'd be more
inclined to hire the one that showed a knowledge of the practical
application of theory over one that had historical knowledge.

--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob


Errol,

that topic could be covered in another class. Maybe make it part of the
english curriculum. Just as the math classes should be oriented to
machining. It would make you job easier if you only had to fill their
brains with the actual machine operations.

John

This ought to get you started. *Smile

The question this group has been looking for a definitive answer for is:
How did the "Letter" size drills come into being and why?

Now, a number of members in this group have made some good contributions in
support of the origin; but I don't think anyone has been able to "rubber
stamp" the quest complete.

Maybe one of your students might take up the banner.

These references come from "Metalworking Yesterday and Tomorrow" The 100th
Anniversary Issue of American Machinist
The book was given to me by Pete Noling ,who sold me my first Hurco in
1/15/'79 Seaboard Machinery Los Angeles --

Also, I'm pleased to see a group member interested in machine tool history.
*Smile I hope we have a continuing dialog.

Best regards to you all,

Stanley Dornfeld

******************************


David Wilkinson screw cutting lathe 1794

Eli Whitney Milling 1800

Simeon North pistols Milling Machine 1813

John Hall Machine developer 1813

Robbins & Lawrence American system interchangeable parts Windsor Vermont
1843
Turret lathe

Leighton A. Wilkie Band saw 1933

Sir Joseph Whitworth 1853 thread form

Joseph R Brown of Brown and Sharpe
& Lucian Sharpe Brown's apprentice 1850

Frederick W Howe 1847

William Sellers instituted the 60 degree thread form with a flat on top
equal to 1/8 the pitch. 1864

Charles H. Norton grinders 1900

Magnus Wahlstrom & Rudolph F. Bannow The Bridgeport Milling Machine 1927
Boring and Facing head

Richard F. Moore Jig Borer 1924 The Moore Special Tool Company The
highest accuracy business in the world.

And!

John T. Parsons The Father of Numerical Control 1948
*********************************

A link http://www.americanprecision.org/


end..

Errol Groff
Instructor, Machine Tool Department
H.H. Ellis Tech
613 Upper Maple Street
Danielson, CT 06239

860 774 8511 x1811

http://pages.cthome.net/errol.groff/

http://newenglandmodelengineeringsociety.org/

Hey Bob...

When I first stood in front of a Bridgeport mill I thought it was just built
by a big company. I didn't realize it was designed and built by a person
like you or me. It's nice to believe a machinist can build something as
cool as a milling machine. You get that feel by reading the history of
inventions and their origins.

Also, history gives you a prospective of where the technology is going in
the future. By viewing the origin of how an invention was conceived, then
where it has come today, it can help us find the direction it will go in the
future. If you have an idea where things will go in the future you can make
plans to your advantage. *Smile

Regards,

Stan-

"Stanley Dornfeld" wrote in message
...
This ought to get you started. *Smile

The question this group has been looking for a definitive answer for is:
How did the "Letter" size drills come into being and why?

Now, a number of members in this group have made some good contributions
in
support of the origin; but I don't think anyone has been able to "rubber
stamp" the quest complete.

Maybe one of your students might take up the banner.

These references come from "Metalworking Yesterday and Tomorrow" The
100th
Anniversary Issue of American Machinist
The book was given to me by Pete Noling ,who sold me my first Hurco in
1/15/'79 Seaboard Machinery Los Angeles --


Take a look at the masthead, or at back of the issue, and see who the
editors were. g

I have a couple of copies, which are worth their weight in gold. But I'll
let Errol have one for a while, if he wants to copy anything from it. I
wrote a number of the items in that history, mostly about the 1930's and
1940's.

Ed Huntress

VERY, VERY Coooooooooooooool Ed.

Dang! You're past your thirties. *Grin

Best regards,

Stan-

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
. net...
"Stanley Dornfeld" wrote in message
...
This ought to get you started. *Smile

The question this group has been looking for a definitive answer for is:
How did the "Letter" size drills come into being and why?

Now, a number of members in this group have made some good contributions
in
support of the origin; but I don't think anyone has been able to "rubber
stamp" the quest complete.

Maybe one of your students might take up the banner.

These references come from "Metalworking Yesterday and Tomorrow" The
100th
Anniversary Issue of American Machinist
The book was given to me by Pete Noling ,who sold me my first Hurco in
1/15/'79 Seaboard Machinery Los Angeles --


Take a look at the masthead, or at back of the issue, and see who the
editors were. g

I have a couple of copies, which are worth their weight in gold. But I'll
let Errol have one for a while, if he wants to copy anything from it. I
wrote a number of the items in that history, mostly about the 1930's and
1940's.

Ed Huntress

Ed:

I would love to have use of the copy! Thanks so much for the offer.

Errol Groff
Instructor, Machine Tool Department
H.H. Ellis Tech
613 Upper Maple Street
Danielson, CT 06239

860 774 8511 x1811

http://pages.cthome.net/errol.groff/

http://newenglandmodelengineeringsociety.org/


On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 03:08:24 GMT, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:



I have a couple of copies, which are worth their weight in gold. But I'll
let Errol have one for a while, if he wants to copy anything from it. I
wrote a number of the items in that history, mostly about the 1930's and
1940's.

Ed Huntress

"Stanley Dornfeld" wrote in message
...
VERY, VERY Coooooooooooooool Ed.

Dang! You're past your thirties. *Grin

I was almost into my thirties when I worked on that issue. g

Ed Huntress

Errol Groff

I am preparing a research assignment for my students on this subject.
Looking for suggestions as to names which might be used as search
terms or links to sites that would be appropriate.

I don't have suggestions for electronic research, but the main English history
was written up in the late 1800s by Samuel Smiles, from whom we get most of the
info on Henry Maudslay, James Nasmyth, and like. I don't have the text
references, but the titles are close to "industrial biography," and "lives of
the engineers."
In the U. S. Joseph Roe's 1916 "English and American Tool Builders" is still a
standard. The mentioned article from the 100 year issue of Am Machinist is
good. Mid-20th-century texts by academics are Robert Woodbury's "Studies in
the History of Machine Tools," and Abbott Payson Usher's "A history of
Mechanical Inventions."

One form of electronic research might be for the students to learn to search
for patents electronically, using the free Alternatif software available
through the U. S. Patent and Trademark Office site. All of the mechanical
patents from 1790 top present are now available (minus those lost in the Patent
Office fire of 1836-7?).

Imo, the history and the hands on shouldn't be at opposite poles of the
curriculum. Learning the mechanical history "can be" an excellent way to
learn to think about more than the mere operation of the tools.
Frank Morrison

"Errol Groff" wrote in message
...

Ed:

I would love to have use of the copy! Thanks so much for the offer.

Errol Groff
Instructor, Machine Tool Department
H.H. Ellis Tech
613 Upper Maple Street
Danielson, CT 06239

860 774 8511 x1811

http://pages.cthome.net/errol.groff/

http://newenglandmodelengineeringsociety.org/


On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 03:08:24 GMT, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:



I have a couple of copies, which are worth their weight in gold. But I'll
let Errol have one for a while, if he wants to copy anything from it. I
wrote a number of the items in that history, mostly about the 1930's and
1940's.

Ed Huntress



Ok, Errol. I dug out my well-thumbed hardbound copy, which I'll send to you
on Monday. Only about 20 copies were hardbound, so it's a rare one, but it
will stand up better than the softbound copies.

You've got it for two months. g

Ed Huntress

"Stanley Dornfeld" wrote in message
...
I guess I was pretty lucky! My copy is also a hard bound.

Boy! I'm really feeling too cool. *S, Really!

Thanks for the info.

Whose name is stamped in gold on the lower right corner of the cover? If
there's no name, the publisher may have made another run that we editors
didn't know about, for key advertisers or something. The 20 copies (roughly)
were for the editorial and publishing staffs.

Ed Huntress

I guess I was pretty lucky! My copy is also a hard bound.

Boy! I'm really feeling too cool. *S, Really!

Thanks for the info.

Regards,

Stan-

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
"Stanley Dornfeld" wrote in message
...
VERY, VERY Coooooooooooooool Ed.

Dang! You're past your thirties. *Grin

I was almost into my thirties when I worked on that issue. g

Ed Huntress

"BottleBob" wrote in message
...

The history of Machine tools seems like it would be a interesting
subject, BUT... If I were in a limited time machine shop class for the
purpose of increasing my skill level with the hope of becoming an
employable entry level machinist, I think *I'd* (and probably
prospective shop owners might also) be more interested in just HOW to
edge find or indicator sweep my parts rather than knowing WHO designed
the first edge finder, or indicator, or CNC.
Don't take this wrong, I don't mean to be overly critical here, I'm
just giving you a view from a job-shop productivity standpoint. If I
were interviewing two prospective entry level apprentices I'd be more
inclined to hire the one that showed a knowledge of the practical
application of theory over one that had historical knowledge.

As far as it goes, I wouldn't disagree. But studying the background and
history of one's field is one mark of a professional, in the old sense of
the word. I'd like to think that people getting into the field as a career,
rather than just as a job, would be interested in how their industry got
where it is today.

If the students aren't curious about it, then there isn't much point in
forcing it upon them. But I believe quite a few would be interested.

I used to lecture on dimensional metrology, often to young people who were
new to the field, and I remember a lot of questions about the background of
the technology. They seemed interested in the way things were done in "the
old days," mostly because they were amazed at how one could measure to such
extreme accuracies without the benefits of electronic technology.

--
Ed Huntress
(remove "3" from email address for email reply)

Ned Simmons wrote in message ...

Giddings & Lewis claims they were first in this company
history.

http://www.glcastings.com/ne/basenav/dateline.asp



Jesus Christ, now G&L's joined the Liars' Club :-(
It's documented all over the place; M.I.T. and John
Parsons built the first functional NC machine. It ran
in 1952. I even have a jpeg (somewhere) of an ashtray
made on the thing. It used a Cincinnati Hydrotel for
the base machine. Parsons-Bendix-Dynapath-Autocon was
the first maker of ANY nc control. All this is discussed
in any of the early books on NC ... you don't have any
of those ?

As for Battleboob's concerns, perhaps if they researched
the *ideas* behind revolutionary machine tools instead of
the boring/useless 'who when where' aspect of it ? I am
continually amazed by the number of 'CNC machinists' who
don't have a clue about basic machining functions and
processes.

"Errol Groff" wrote in message
...
I am preparing a research assignment for my students on this subject.
Looking for suggestions as to names which might be used as search
terms or links to sites that would be appropriate.

Also, I am not remembering the names that were involved in the
creation of the first NC machines back in the late forties/early
fifties. I know that the info is back in my head somewhere but it is
not coming forward. Help would be appreciated!

I don't want togfive the kids everything obviously but I do need to
give them enough to get started It is tough to do research on a
subject when you don't know enough about it to even know what
questions to ask.

Thanks for your help!

I think its a great idea for the students to understand the history of cnc
machines, but perhaps looking for the history of machinists would be in
order.

They will be on milk cartons soon.

Or beer bottles. g

L8ters
Bing

Errol Groff wrote:
I am preparing a research assignment for my students on this subject.
Looking for suggestions as to names which might be used as search
terms or links to sites that would be appropriate.

Also, I am not remembering the names that were involved in the
creation of the first NC machines back in the late forties/early
fifties. I know that the info is back in my head somewhere but it is
not coming forward. Help would be appreciated!

I don't want togfive the kids everything obviously but I do need to
give them enough to get started It is tough to do research on a
subject when you don't know enough about it to even know what
questions to ask.

Thanks for your help!

Errol Groff
Instructor, Machine Tool Department
H.H. Ellis Tech
613 Upper Maple Street
Danielson, CT 06239

860 774 8511 x1811

http://pages.cthome.net/errol.groff/

http://newenglandmodelengineeringsociety.org/

A few topics to consider:

The impact of electrification and the availability of small reliable
electric motors, the change from main lineshaft driven machinery to
individually powered mobile machines.

The role of the machine tool in the general shift toward standardized parts
and procedures, the advent of "scientific management", Taylorism, the
rationalization movement.

Backlash against machinery/technology in general, Luddites. Who gained, who
lost, as machine tools/manufacturing facilities became more advanced and
capable?

A thorough treatment of these topics would be beyond the scope of the
assignment, but some students might want to explore how machine tools
developed in a larger context.

Ed Huntress wrote:

"Stanley Dornfeld" wrote in message
...
This ought to get you started. *Smile

The question this group has been looking for a definitive answer for is:
How did the "Letter" size drills come into being and why?

Now, a number of members in this group have made some good contributions
in
support of the origin; but I don't think anyone has been able to "rubber
stamp" the quest complete.

Maybe one of your students might take up the banner.

These references come from "Metalworking Yesterday and Tomorrow" The
100th
Anniversary Issue of American Machinist
The book was given to me by Pete Noling ,who sold me my first Hurco in
1/15/'79 Seaboard Machinery Los Angeles --

Take a look at the masthead, or at back of the issue, and see who the
editors were. g

I have a couple of copies, which are worth their weight in gold. But I'll
let Errol have one for a while, if he wants to copy anything from it. I
wrote a number of the items in that history, mostly about the 1930's and
1940's.

Ed Huntress


I had that issue but some sucker borrowed it and never brought it back.
Some kid could plagiarize it for his whole essay.

John

Great link, Mark! I am wasting a lot of time looking around in this archive.
Thanks! :-)

Al

"Mark Fields" wrote in message
...
Hate to mention this, but we received word last week that G&L's foundry is
closing permanently.

There is some possibility that our foundry would get some of the work. I
work at the former Cincinnati Milling Machine Co. (or Milacron) foundry,
now
known as Cast-Fab Technologies, Inc.

If you'd like to see some historical photos of the machine tool industry,
please go to:

http://memory.loc.gov/

Click on the search link and type into the search bar "Milling machines
and
machine castings" WITH the quotes. You will get a hit for a number of
photos of the foundry in 1942. The foundry is not identified, but it is
the
Cincinnati Milling Machine Co. foundry. The reason it was not identified
is
because it was early on during WW2 and there were fears that sabotage or
bombing would take place so the foundry name was kept secret.

Hey Errol,

History Channel:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/robotics/2000/10/vcr_alert/

Also, contact David MacMillan on this list or modeleng-list. He is
into very old machine stuff.



Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:31:09 GMT, Errol Groff
wrote:

I am preparing a research assignment for my students on this subject.
Looking for suggestions as to names which might be used as search
terms or links to sites that would be appropriate.

Also, I am not remembering the names that were involved in the
creation of the first NC machines back in the late forties/early
fifties. I know that the info is back in my head somewhere but it is
not coming forward. Help would be appreciated!

I don't want togfive the kids everything obviously but I do need to
give them enough to get started It is tough to do research on a
subject when you don't know enough about it to even know what
questions to ask.

Thanks for your help!

Errol Groff
Instructor, Machine Tool Department
H.H. Ellis Tech
613 Upper Maple Street
Danielson, CT 06239

860 774 8511 x1811

http://pages.cthome.net/errol.groff/

http://newenglandmodelengineeringsociety.org/

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:59:48 GMT, BottleBob
wrote:



Errol Groff wrote:

I am preparing a research assignment for my students on this subject.

Errol:

The history of Machine tools seems like it would be a interesting
subject, BUT... If I were in a limited time machine shop class for the
purpose of increasing my skill level with the hope of becoming an
employable entry level machinist, I think *I'd* (and probably
prospective shop owners might also) be more interested in just HOW to
edge find or indicator sweep my parts rather than knowing WHO designed
the first edge finder, or indicator, or CNC.
Don't take this wrong, I don't mean to be overly critical here, I'm
just giving you a view from a job-shop productivity standpoint. If I
were interviewing two prospective entry level apprentices I'd be more
inclined to hire the one that showed a knowledge of the practical
application of theory over one that had historical knowledge.

Though I agree with the value of learning how to use the tools
effectively I also feel that anyone who doesn't wonder about those who
came up with the tools is sadly lacking, and would benefit greatly
from a study of the self discipline that those great men operated
under. Any really well rounded machinist must hold men like Whitworth,
Maudslay and Colt in awe, and their workmanship improves as they
realize they are following in the footsteps of such great human
beings.

Also;
Wilkinson, (HBM) Whitney (Milling machine), and many others. I believe
we become a little like our heros when we study their lives, and those
who discovered how to turn tool paths into data a machine can follow
automatically are certainly worthy of the same study.
The "drones" are the ones who don't care about such things, in my
opinion.

I don't read this as a lie at all. It's all in how you read things. I
believe they are telling the history of G&L, not the history of machine
tools.

Therefore they are stating they built "THEIR" first NC machine tool in 1955.

It would be different had they put "invented the first NC machine tool".

Mark Fields


"Excitable Boy" wrote in message
om...
Ned Simmons wrote in message
...

Giddings & Lewis claims they were first in this company
history.

http://www.glcastings.com/ne/basenav/dateline.asp



Jesus Christ, now G&L's joined the Liars' Club :-(
It's documented all over the place; M.I.T. and John
Parsons built the first functional NC machine. It ran
in 1952. I even have a jpeg (somewhere) of an ashtray
made on the thing. It used a Cincinnati Hydrotel for
the base machine. Parsons-Bendix-Dynapath-Autocon was
the first maker of ANY nc control. All this is discussed
in any of the early books on NC ... you don't have any
of those ?

As for Battleboob's concerns, perhaps if they researched
the *ideas* behind revolutionary machine tools instead of
the boring/useless 'who when where' aspect of it ? I am
continually amazed by the number of 'CNC machinists' who
don't have a clue about basic machining functions and
processes.

Mark Fields wrote:

Hate to mention this, but we received word last week that G&L's foundry is
closing permanently.

There is some possibility that our foundry would get some of the work. I
work at the former Cincinnati Milling Machine Co. (or Milacron) foundry, now
known as Cast-Fab Technologies, Inc.

If you'd like to see some historical photos of the machine tool industry,
please go to:

http://memory.loc.gov/

Click on the search link and type into the search bar "Milling machines and
machine castings" WITH the quotes. You will get a hit for a number of
photos of the foundry in 1942. The foundry is not identified, but it is the
Cincinnati Milling Machine Co. foundry. The reason it was not identified is
because it was early on during WW2 and there were fears that sabotage or
bombing would take place so the foundry name was kept secret.

Next week the auctioneers will be at the machine shop and everything must
go. The foundry is the only part left still producing. Of course we use
electric furnaces instead of the cupolas and furan sand instead of green
sand but the building itself is still the same.

Mark Fields

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
I am preparing a research assignment for my students on this subject.
Looking for suggestions as to names which might be used as search
terms or links to sites that would be appropriate.

Also, I am not remembering the names that were involved in the
creation of the first NC machines back in the late forties/early
fifties. I know that the info is back in my head somewhere but it is
not coming forward. Help would be appreciated!


Giddings & Lewis is the first that comes to mind, perhaps
Warner & Swasey.

Giddings & Lewis claims they were first in this company
history.

http://www.glcastings.com/ne/basenav/dateline.asp

Ned Simmons


I was rummaging around on that link for a couple of hours til I fell
asleep at the computer. A lot of those parts looked familiar since I
have rebuilt a couple of those Mills. The spur gears look like the
table feed gears and the bevel gear may be the one that supplied power
to the quill feed. Those old machines still do the job. Not too many
CNC's can remove metal as fast as a #5 vertical.

Very good site. Thanks.

John

A very good position to take, Glen

Regards,

Stan-

"Glen" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:59:48 GMT, BottleBob
wrote:



Errol Groff wrote:

I am preparing a research assignment for my students on this subject.

Errol:

The history of Machine tools seems like it would be a interesting
subject, BUT... If I were in a limited time machine shop class for the
purpose of increasing my skill level with the hope of becoming an
employable entry level machinist, I think *I'd* (and probably
prospective shop owners might also) be more interested in just HOW to
edge find or indicator sweep my parts rather than knowing WHO designed
the first edge finder, or indicator, or CNC.
Don't take this wrong, I don't mean to be overly critical here, I'm
just giving you a view from a job-shop productivity standpoint. If I
were interviewing two prospective entry level apprentices I'd be more
inclined to hire the one that showed a knowledge of the practical
application of theory over one that had historical knowledge.

Though I agree with the value of learning how to use the tools
effectively I also feel that anyone who doesn't wonder about those who
came up with the tools is sadly lacking, and would benefit greatly
from a study of the self discipline that those great men operated
under. Any really well rounded machinist must hold men like Whitworth,
Maudslay and Colt in awe, and their workmanship improves as they
realize they are following in the footsteps of such great human
beings.

Also;
Wilkinson, (HBM) Whitney (Milling machine), and many others. I believe
we become a little like our heros when we study their lives, and those
who discovered how to turn tool paths into data a machine can follow
automatically are certainly worthy of the same study.
The "drones" are the ones who don't care about such things, in my
opinion.

Hi again Ed..

I guess I have brand 'X.' There is no Gold name on it. *shucks!

Also, I would be interested in which articles you wrote. Would you please
list them for me?

You see... You are part of the history as well. *Smile

Best regards,

Stanley Dornfeld


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
. ..
"Stanley Dornfeld" wrote in message
...
I guess I was pretty lucky! My copy is also a hard bound.

Boy! I'm really feeling too cool. *S, Really!

Thanks for the info.

Whose name is stamped in gold on the lower right corner of the cover? If
there's no name, the publisher may have made another run that we editors
didn't know about, for key advertisers or something. The 20 copies
(roughly)
were for the editorial and publishing staffs.

Ed Huntress

"Stanley Dornfeld" wrote in message
...
Hi again Ed..

I guess I have brand 'X.' There is no Gold name on it. *shucks!

Aha. Then there were other copies hard-bound, besides the special run made
for those of us who worked on it. They probably were presentation issues for
advertisers. Andy Ashburn, who was the Editor then, may know. I'll ask him
when I get to it.


Also, I would be interested in which articles you wrote. Would you please
list them for me?

I'd be interested, too. You're assuming my memory is good for sorting out
which items I wrote in an issue written 26 years ago. That's a lot of
assumption. g I was trying to blend my style with the overall style of the
book, so it's a little hard to remember which ones I actually wrote --
especially since I had a hand in editing most of the book, and we tend to
forget what we actually wrote versus what we just edited.

I'll take a look this evening and try to remember. I can tell you this,
though: Sometime in the mid-'90s, the current owners of American Machinist
(Penton Publishing) ran a special issue that, essentially, was a rip of the
100th Anniversary Issue, which had been published by McGraw-Hill, the
original owners. They just lifted the pieces verbatim -- including two or
three of mine -- without acknowledgment of where they came from or who wrote
them. Then they put a new byline (sort of) on them, saying "edited by," and
listing some member of their current staff.

They own the material and there was nothing explicitly unethical about it.
But it really grated the hell out of those of us who spent a year of our
lives researching and writing it.


You see... You are part of the history as well. *Smile

I realize that every time I look in the mirror...

--
Ed Huntress
(remove "3" from email address for email reply)

"Errol Groff" wrote in message
...
I am preparing a research assignment for my students on this subject.
Looking for suggestions as to names which might be used as search
terms or links to sites that would be appropriate.

Also, I am not remembering the names that were involved in the
creation of the first NC machines back in the late forties/early
fifties. I know that the info is back in my head somewhere but it is
not coming forward. Help would be appreciated!

I believe the first Numerically controlled machine tool was developed as a
joint venture of the Devlieg machine tool company and the Massachusetts
institute of technology (M.I.T.).


I don't want togfive the kids everything obviously but I do need to
give them enough to get started It is tough to do research on a
subject when you don't know enough about it to even know what
questions to ask.

Thanks for your help!

Errol Groff
Instructor, Machine Tool Department
H.H. Ellis Tech
613 Upper Maple Street
Danielson, CT 06239

860 774 8511 x1811

http://pages.cthome.net/errol.groff/

http://newenglandmodelengineeringsociety.org/

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:31:09 GMT, Errol Groff
wrote:

I am preparing a research assignment for my students on this subject.
Looking for suggestions as to names which might be used as search
terms or links to sites that would be appropriate.

Read "Tools For The Job" by LTC Rolt.
Superb book, and Tom Rolt was also a pioneer in the preservation of
industrial archaeology.

Names to conjure with are "Watt & Boulton" "Bramah", "Whitworth",
various US gunsmiths, and the Norton grinding wheel company. The RAC
Cadillac re-assembly trial is worth studying too.

--
Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods