I just bought a house with a 1,000 gallon propane tank owned
by the house and property tax is paid on the tank which is
a California-only thing I hear.

They just filled the tank up to 85% (they wouldn't fill further
they told my wife, otherwise it could blow up, they said).

They told me the price is $1.45 per gallon of propane plus
about a twenty dollar "hazmat" fee whatever that means, for a
total price a bit over a thousand dollars for the fill.

They said they "inspected" the system (which was existing), and
they inspected the tank which is on on four-inch thick concrete
slab bolted down by straps for earthquakes), and they charge $100
for that inspection (my wife let them in the house but she doesn't
know what they did).

I never had propane before.
I don't begrudge them anything.

But, I also don't know what's normal.
Is this normal stuff?

On Thu, 17 Dec 2015 22:55:01 -0000 (UTC), "M. Stradbury"
wrote:

I just bought a house with a 1,000 gallon propane tank owned
by the house and property tax is paid on the tank which is
a California-only thing I hear.

They just filled the tank up to 85% (they wouldn't fill further
they told my wife, otherwise it could blow up, they said).

They told me the price is $1.45 per gallon of propane plus
about a twenty dollar "hazmat" fee whatever that means, for a
total price a bit over a thousand dollars for the fill.

They said they "inspected" the system (which was existing), and
they inspected the tank which is on on four-inch thick concrete
slab bolted down by straps for earthquakes), and they charge $100
for that inspection (my wife let them in the house but she doesn't
know what they did).

I never had propane before.
I don't begrudge them anything.

But, I also don't know what's normal.
Is this normal stuff?

Given this situation is in California, who knows what is "normal"?!

Reference your local codes, regulations, etc.. Not sure if all this
has to do with things "known to cause cancer, birth defects or other
reproductive harm, and to inform citizens about exposures to such
chemicals."

Call your local authorities.

On 12/17/2015 3:06 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 17 Dec 2015 22:55:01 -0000 (UTC), "M. Stradbury"
wrote:

I just bought a house with a 1,000 gallon propane tank owned
by the house and property tax is paid on the tank which is
a California-only thing I hear.

They just filled the tank up to 85% (they wouldn't fill further
they told my wife, otherwise it could blow up, they said).

They told me the price is $1.45 per gallon of propane plus
about a twenty dollar "hazmat" fee whatever that means, for a
total price a bit over a thousand dollars for the fill.

They said they "inspected" the system (which was existing), and
they inspected the tank which is on on four-inch thick concrete
slab bolted down by straps for earthquakes), and they charge $100
for that inspection (my wife let them in the house but she doesn't
know what they did).

I never had propane before.
I don't begrudge them anything.

But, I also don't know what's normal.
Is this normal stuff?

Given this situation is in California, who knows what is "normal"?!

Reference your local codes, regulations, etc.. Not sure if all this
has to do with things "known to cause cancer, birth defects or other
reproductive harm, and to inform citizens about exposures to such
chemicals."

Call your local authorities.

Be careful of Oren. He might **** yer mother.
LOL

On Thu, 17 Dec 2015 22:55:01 -0000 (UTC), "M. Stradbury"
wrote:

I just bought a house with a 1,000 gallon propane tank owned
by the house and property tax is paid on the tank which is
a California-only thing I hear.

They just filled the tank up to 85% (they wouldn't fill further
they told my wife, otherwise it could blow up, they said).

They told me the price is $1.45 per gallon of propane plus
about a twenty dollar "hazmat" fee whatever that means, for a
total price a bit over a thousand dollars for the fill.

They said they "inspected" the system (which was existing), and
they inspected the tank which is on on four-inch thick concrete
slab bolted down by straps for earthquakes), and they charge $100
for that inspection (my wife let them in the house but she doesn't
know what they did).

I never had propane before.
I don't begrudge them anything.

But, I also don't know what's normal.
Is this normal stuff?

I have a 500 gal tank. They only fill mine to 80%. But they can not fill
any tank to 100%. Even those 20lb tanks for your BBQ grill are only
filled part way. In the sun, they expand, so if they were filled 100%,
they would at least release gas, if not explode.

I dont know anything about your CA tax or what the Hazmat fee does.
That's local to your area, I assume...

I'm charged for inspection too, and if the tank gets completely empty,
they do it again, and charge me again. My fee is $50, and if you ask me,
that's too much for spending 10 minutes looking at my pipes, tank, and
regulator. They used to come indoors and light my furnace pilot light,
but the last time they did that was years ago. They know I can light it,
and I'm not always there when they deliver the gas. But they made me
sign some disclaimer in order to light it myself, and they shut off the
tank valve, so I have to turn it on. (Which makes sense because some
things. like a gas range would release gas into the home is the pilot
was not lit).

If I ONLY use propane, I have to get a fill mid winter. 500 gal is not
enough for a whole winter for me. But I now use a pellet stove, and hope
I can make it thru a winter on one tankful. This is my first year with
that pellet stove, so I am not sure???

If I did not OWN my tank, it would cost me over $100 a year to lease a
tank from them. I paid around $1000 for my tank about 8 years ago, so
it's about paid for itself. Before that, I was leasing one from them,
and because of that, I was limited to ONLY get my gas from that company.
Now I can shop for the best price.

Your price per gallon is about 16 cents (per gal) lower than I paid last
summer, but gasoline is way down now and LP (propane) is a petroleum
product. I'd probably pay about the same as you now...

Two winters ago, propane was almost $5.00 a gallon. That hurt !!!
(It had something to do with a shortage). That's what caused me to
invest in the pellet stove.

M. Stradbury wrote:
I just bought a house with a 1,000 gallon propane tank owned
by the house and property tax is paid on the tank which is
a California-only thing I hear.

They just filled the tank up to 85% (they wouldn't fill further
they told my wife, otherwise it could blow up, they said).

They told me the price is $1.45 per gallon of propane plus
about a twenty dollar "hazmat" fee whatever that means, for a
total price a bit over a thousand dollars for the fill.

They said they "inspected" the system (which was existing), and
they inspected the tank which is on on four-inch thick concrete
slab bolted down by straps for earthquakes), and they charge $100
for that inspection (my wife let them in the house but she doesn't
know what they did).

I never had propane before.
I don't begrudge them anything.

But, I also don't know what's normal.
Is this normal stuff?

Asking questions after the fact? Funny!

On Thu, 17 Dec 2015 17:08:36 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:


I never had propane before.
I don't begrudge them anything.

But, I also don't know what's normal.
Is this normal stuff?

Asking questions after the fact? Funny!

I once lived in a city and just paid my gas bill for Natural Gas. When I
moved to the country, I also was confused and somewhat intimidated by
the propane company. I called and thought they would just install a tank
and fill it. I quickly learned about the tank lease fee, other fees, and
I had to buy a regulator (on the house), and other costs that I did not
expect. And I was not allowed to install my own underground pipes, which
would have saved me quite a bit.

I was also not aware that each and every time I let the tank get
completely empty, that I would be charged for an inspection. I quickly
learned to never let the tank go below 2%. Then I learned something
else.... If the tank does go empty, DONT TELL THEM THAT AT THE OFFICE.
The same guy always fills my tank, and he told me that if I dont tell
them, he's not going to report me, or charge me for an inspection.... (A
nice guy). However, they will fill the tank faster if I DO tell them
it's empty. The BEST solution is to get it filled BEFORE it goes empty.
Especially when it's very cold outdoors.

M. Stradbury wrote:

I just bought a house with a 1,000 gallon propane tank owned
by the house and property tax is paid on the tank which is
a California-only thing I hear.

They just filled the tank up to 85% (they wouldn't fill further
they told my wife, otherwise it could blow up, they said).

yeah, they don't fill it all the way up.


They told me the price is $1.45 per gallon of propane plus
about a twenty dollar "hazmat" fee whatever that means, for a
total price a bit over a thousand dollars for the fill.

not too horrible a price. no idea what the hazmat
fee might be for. ask them.


They said they "inspected" the system (which was existing), and
they inspected the tank which is on on four-inch thick concrete
slab bolted down by straps for earthquakes), and they charge $100
for that inspection (my wife let them in the house but she doesn't
know what they did).

any time you run a tank out here it costs extra
for inspection to make sure it didn't run out from
a leak or whatever. IMO a scam regulation.

don't run it out! ask the previous owners or propane
company for yearly records to see how much you might
use and check the tank level periodically to make sure
you don't run out...


I never had propane before.
I don't begrudge them anything.

But, I also don't know what's normal.
Is this normal stuff?

sounds mostly routine.


songbird

On 12/17/2015 5:55 PM, M. Stradbury wrote:
I just bought a house with a 1,000 gallon propane tank owned
by the house and property tax is paid on the tank which is
a California-only thing I hear.

They just filled the tank up to 85% (they wouldn't fill further
they told my wife, otherwise it could blow up, they said).

They told me the price is $1.45 per gallon of propane plus
about a twenty dollar "hazmat" fee whatever that means, for a
total price a bit over a thousand dollars for the fill.

They said they "inspected" the system (which was existing), and
they inspected the tank which is on on four-inch thick concrete
slab bolted down by straps for earthquakes), and they charge $100
for that inspection (my wife let them in the house but she doesn't
know what they did).

I never had propane before.
I don't begrudge them anything.

But, I also don't know what's normal.
Is this normal stuff?

Pretty normal The hazmat fee is a rip off. It should be just the cost
of doing business, but they make it a line item. Get an oil change on
your car and you may see an additional "disposal" fee. Just a way of
advertising a $29 oil change and charging $32.

This is what Amerigas has to say:
HazMat & Safety Compliance Fee - This fee, which is assessed to propane
deliveries and service calls, helps to offset a portion of the costs the
Company incurs to comply with federal, state and local government
regulations, including, but not limited to, hazardous materials,
homeland security, emergency preparedness and workplace safety. It is
also used to fund, among other things, employee safety training and
inspections, cylinder re-qualification, and environmental compliance.

On 12/17/2015 03:55 PM, M. Stradbury wrote:
But, I also don't know what's normal.
Is this normal stuff?


The inspection fee might be because of the change of ownership. The
hazmat fee is one of those little gouges like the odd fees on a landline
phone bill.

A few years back I was on an autofill plan. A new driver tpped up the
tank, which took about 8 gallons. The hazmat and delivery fee exceeded
the price of the gas. I bitched, and they refunded the extra fees. About
a month later, the same thing occurred. That's when I dropped the
autofill. I keep an eye on the tank and when it's getting down I tell
them to fill it. The Amerigas office is on one of the routes I walk for
lunch so it's no big deal to stop by.

On 12/17/2015 6:52 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 17 Dec 2015 22:55:01 -0000 (UTC), "M. Stradbury"
wrote:


They just filled the tank up to 85% (they wouldn't fill further
they told my wife, otherwise it could blow up, they said).

They told me the price is $1.45 per gallon of propane plus
about a twenty dollar "hazmat" fee whatever that means, for a
total price a bit over a thousand dollars for the fill.


But, I also don't know what's normal.
Is this normal stuff?

I have a 500 gal tank. They only fill mine to 80%. But they can not fill
any tank to 100%. Even those 20lb tanks for your BBQ grill are only
filled part way. In the sun, they expand, so if they were filled 100%,
they would at least release gas, if not explode.


Another web portal user. Who won't see my reply.

When I worked for one place, they told us the 80%
capacity was already figured in, and we put 20
pounds in the 20 pounders. I thought it was 16,
but the boss said 20, and also the guy who taught
the certification course so I could pump propane.

Also read on line, Blue Rhino was at one point
put 15 pounds instead of 16. Maybe still do.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Thu, 17 Dec 2015 22:55:01 -0000 (UTC), "M. Stradbury"
wrote:

I just bought a house with a 1,000 gallon propane tank owned
by the house and property tax is paid on the tank which is
a California-only thing I hear.

They just filled the tank up to 85% (they wouldn't fill further
they told my wife, otherwise it could blow up, they said).

Best not to fill it all the way then, but consult with your clergyman.

They told me the price is $1.45 per gallon of propane plus
about a twenty dollar "hazmat" fee whatever that means, for a
total price a bit over a thousand dollars for the fill.

They said they "inspected" the system (which was existing), and
they inspected the tank which is on on four-inch thick concrete
slab bolted down by straps for earthquakes),

That's ridiculous. How could those straps cause earthquakes?

and they charge $100
for that inspection (my wife let them in the house but she doesn't
know what they did).

I never had propane before.
I don't begrudge them anything.

But, I also don't know what's normal.
Is this normal stuff?

You could call another local company, as if you were a prospective
customer. Don't lie, just say you want to know the charges. Some day
you may move again so you can say you expect to move. I'd be really
surpised if they made up the hazmat fee or changed more than they
should, because for 20 dollars it's not worth losing a customer.

As to inspection, someone can always agree to get a service, and they
will change what they charge. One should ask how much first. If they
said, We're not going to fill your tank unless you let us inspect the
system and the charge is $100, what would you do? I can see why they
want to inspect. Even if they wouldn't be legally liable, they don't
want to morally liable or to have anything remotely to do with an
explosion, and who knows what condition the previous owners left it
in. Even if you had a house inspection, they vary in quality and
usually don't have propane specialists doing them.

I'm sure someone would have filled your tank no questions asked. If
I can find someone who will say my car passed its safety inspecition
even though he didn't inspect it or doesn't know how, there are
people who would fill your tank. Plus others who aren't old enough or
educated enough or mature enough to foresee what can go wrong, who
wouldnt' think they were doing anything wrong. Who might not be
doing anything wrong by many standards, because after it's your
responsibility and you probably had a home inspection before you
bought the house.


My buddy just had his house inspected so he could refinance the
mortgage. She was thorough compared to the previous guy, took her 50
minutes, plus travel time, plus maybe another hour's work at home,
(plus she loses time when some people cancel when she's already there
or on the way and she's not going to sue etc.) but she charges $400.
At least $100 an hour when she's working. She started off a a
secretary in their office, then someone lost his driver's license and
she had to drive him around, and she saw what he did and said, "Hey I
could do that".

On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 4:55:05 PM UTC-6, M. Stradbury wrote:
I just bought a house with a 1,000 gallon propane tank owned
by the house and property tax is paid on the tank which is
a California-only thing I hear.

They just filled the tank up to 85% (they wouldn't fill further
they told my wife, otherwise it could blow up, they said).

They told me the price is $1.45 per gallon of propane plus
about a twenty dollar "hazmat" fee whatever that means, for a
total price a bit over a thousand dollars for the fill.

They said they "inspected" the system (which was existing), and
they inspected the tank which is on on four-inch thick concrete
slab bolted down by straps for earthquakes), and they charge $100
for that inspection (my wife let them in the house but she doesn't
know what they did).

I never had propane before.
I don't begrudge them anything.

But, I also don't know what's normal.
Is this normal stuff?

It's my understanding that the tank isn't filled all the way because room in the tank is needed for the liquid propane to evaporate into gas and the gas, not liquid propane is what is fed into the home. The higher the demand for propane gas from a tank, the more surface area is needed inside the tank thus a larger tank is needed. That's why you can't run a large furnace from a 20 pound cylinder. The liquid in the small tank can't boil into gas fast enough to supply the furnace with enough gas except for testing. (ヅ)

[8~{} Uncle LP Monster

Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 4:55:05 PM UTC-6, M. Stradbury wrote:
I just bought a house with a 1,000 gallon propane tank owned
by the house and property tax is paid on the tank which is
a California-only thing I hear.

They just filled the tank up to 85% (they wouldn't fill further
they told my wife, otherwise it could blow up, they said).

They told me the price is $1.45 per gallon of propane plus
about a twenty dollar "hazmat" fee whatever that means, for a
total price a bit over a thousand dollars for the fill.

They said they "inspected" the system (which was existing), and
they inspected the tank which is on on four-inch thick concrete
slab bolted down by straps for earthquakes), and they charge $100
for that inspection (my wife let them in the house but she doesn't
know what they did).

I never had propane before.
I don't begrudge them anything.

But, I also don't know what's normal.
Is this normal stuff?

It's my understanding that the tank isn't filled all the way because room in the tank is needed for the liquid propane to evaporate into gas and the gas, not liquid propane is what is fed into the home. The higher the demand for propane gas from a tank, the more surface area is needed inside the tank thus a larger tank is needed. That's why you can't run a large furnace from a 20 pound cylinder. The liquid in the small tank can't boil into gas fast enough to supply the furnace with enough gas except for testing. (ヅ)

[8~{} Uncle LP Monster

Right that is common knowledge as well as safety issue. I saw few times
camping trailer tanks blowing safety valve spewing cloudy gas into air
during summer camping.

On Thu, 17 Dec 2015 17:52:37 -0600, Paintedcow wrote:

If I did not OWN my tank, it would cost me over $100 a year to lease a
tank from them.

This outfit is called Amerigas.

They charge $60 per year to rent the tank, with the first year free.
Of course, if you rent their tank, you don't have to pay for 10-year
inspections of the regulators and the like, but you are limited to
only getting gas from them.

Since the tank came with the house, and since I pay property tax
on it every year, I can go to anyone I want.

But Amerigas seems to be the cheapest (Suburban and Kamps being two
of the others).

On Thu, 17 Dec 2015 18:24:09 -0600, Paintedcow wrote:

If the tank does go empty, DONT TELL THEM THAT AT THE OFFICE.
The same guy always fills my tank, and he told me that if I dont tell
them, he's not going to report me, or charge me for an inspection.

What's the danger if the tank goes empty anyway?

rbowman wrote:

A few years back I was on an autofill plan.

A neighbor told me that the same thing happens when he's on the
autofill plan. They come and put in a small amount of gallons
and then he gets hit with the hazmat fee over and over again.

He says they charge more if you're on an "as-call" basis, so,
he said what he does is not pay them.

When you don't pay them, they don't show up, even if you're on
a schedule.

Then, when he gets down to about 20%, he pays them for the last
fill. Once his check clears, they come.

So, he says, it's a way that he gets to be "on-call" at auto-fill
prices.

On 12/17/2015 09:47 PM, M. Stradbury wrote:
What's the danger if the tank goes empty anyway?

The pilot lights go out. For furnaces and so forth once the pilot is out
the valve should shut off until you relight the pilot. I have a gas
range where the pilot would continue to leak gas until it's lit. No big
deal since the flow is so low.

On 12/17/2015 09:50 PM, Clément wrote:
So, he says, it's a way that he gets to be "on-call" at auto-fill
prices.

I'm in a rural area but typically the truck is out my way once a week. I
just ask them to fill it when they're in the area and they don't charge
for the on-call. If I ran out completely or something and got them out
for a special trip, then they'd hit me for the call charge. I've only
got a 100 gallon tank so it's not like i'm going to suck the truck dry.

On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 10:40:53 PM UTC-6, Tony Hwang wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 4:55:05 PM UTC-6, M. Stradbury wrote:
I just bought a house with a 1,000 gallon propane tank owned
by the house and property tax is paid on the tank which is
a California-only thing I hear.

They just filled the tank up to 85% (they wouldn't fill further
they told my wife, otherwise it could blow up, they said).

They told me the price is $1.45 per gallon of propane plus
about a twenty dollar "hazmat" fee whatever that means, for a
total price a bit over a thousand dollars for the fill.

They said they "inspected" the system (which was existing), and
they inspected the tank which is on on four-inch thick concrete
slab bolted down by straps for earthquakes), and they charge $100
for that inspection (my wife let them in the house but she doesn't
know what they did).

I never had propane before.
I don't begrudge them anything.

But, I also don't know what's normal.
Is this normal stuff?

It's my understanding that the tank isn't filled all the way because room in the tank is needed for the liquid propane to evaporate into gas and the gas, not liquid propane is what is fed into the home. The higher the demand for propane gas from a tank, the more surface area is needed inside the tank thus a larger tank is needed. That's why you can't run a large furnace from a 20 pound cylinder. The liquid in the small tank can't boil into gas fast enough to supply the furnace with enough gas except for testing. (ヅ)

[8~{} Uncle LP Monster

Right that is common knowledge as well as safety issue. I saw few times
camping trailer tanks blowing safety valve spewing cloudy gas into air
during summer camping.

I have my doubts that the OP knew that. You and I have had experience with propane for something other than operating a barbecue grill and I believe you understand the scientific principles explaining the behavior of LPG. ヽ(€¢€¿€¢)ノ

[8~~{} Uncle Gassy Monster

On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 04:50:52 +0000 (UTC), Clément
wrote:

rbowman wrote:

A few years back I was on an autofill plan.

A neighbor told me that the same thing happens when he's on the
autofill plan. They come and put in a small amount of gallons
and then he gets hit with the hazmat fee over and over again.

He says they charge more if you're on an "as-call" basis, so,
he said what he does is not pay them.

When you don't pay them, they don't show up, even if you're on
a schedule.

Then, when he gets down to about 20%, he pays them for the last
fill. Once his check clears, they come.

So, he says, it's a way that he gets to be "on-call" at auto-fill
prices.

I'll have to think about that for a while.

I have oil and I have been lax about checkign out billing and
competition, but early on I did somethingr a little bit like your
story.

To get automatic delivery they wanted me to sign a contract. I'm sure
I coudl cancel at any time, but I coudln't make up my mind about
anything so I didn't read it or write back. They come automatically
anyhow. They want the business.

On Thu, 17 Dec 2015 22:50:40 -0700, rbowman wrote:

The pilot lights go out. For furnaces and so forth once the pilot is out
the valve should shut off until you relight the pilot. I have a gas
range where the pilot would continue to leak gas until it's lit. No big
deal since the flow is so low.

This house has no pilots other than, I guess, the hot water heater.
The gas stove & the gas fireplace is electrically ignited.
So is the furnace.
I think the hot water heater has the typical big red knob & pilot light.

So, I guess, if the gas runs out, the only problem is that the pilot
goes out, so, we'd simply turn off the big red knob.

Is that correct?

On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 08:04:45 -0000 (UTC), "M. Stradbury"
wrote:

On Thu, 17 Dec 2015 22:50:40 -0700, rbowman wrote:

The pilot lights go out. For furnaces and so forth once the pilot is out
the valve should shut off until you relight the pilot. I have a gas
range where the pilot would continue to leak gas until it's lit. No big
deal since the flow is so low.

This house has no pilots other than, I guess, the hot water heater.
The gas stove & the gas fireplace is electrically ignited.
So is the furnace.
I think the hot water heater has the typical big red knob & pilot light.

So, I guess, if the gas runs out, the only problem is that the pilot
goes out, so, we'd simply turn off the big red knob.

Is that correct?

I thougght one of the big problems was that if the tank is empty it
might mean there is a leak.

On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 04:47:01 -0000 (UTC), "M. Stradbury"
wrote:

On Thu, 17 Dec 2015 17:52:37 -0600, Paintedcow wrote:

If I did not OWN my tank, it would cost me over $100 a year to lease a
tank from them.

This outfit is called Amerigas.

I've heard of them....

They charge $60 per year to rent the tank, with the first year free.
Of course, if you rent their tank, you don't have to pay for 10-year
inspections of the regulators and the like, but you are limited to
only getting gas from them.

That's cheap to rent the tank compared to here. It was $120 here, but
that was 8 years ago. It's either the same, or more now. (Nothing ever
goes down in price except the gas itself).

Since the tank came with the house, and since I pay property tax
on it every year, I can go to anyone I want.

Then you OWN the tank, which is great. They are not cheap!
When I bought my 500gal tank, the new ones were around $1600, but they
had these older models, and were still at $1000. I got the last one. I
asked the guy what the difference was between the older model and the
newer one. He said nothing except it's from a a different company, and
the color is different. Mine is gray, the newer ones were white. He said
the price went up because steel prices rose, and they changed companies
because they got a better deal. They were selling the old ones at the
same price they were the year before, because they wanted to get rid of
them, so to not have different colors. (like I could care about the
color).

Is there a special entry on your prop tax for the tank? I have never
seen that. We pay taxes on the home and any permanent other buildings,
and the land itself. That's all. I have a couple small sheds I built on
wheels (old hay wagon frames). They are not permanent, so no taxes. Plus
I can move them if I decide I want them closer to the house, or
whatever. I could move them if I was to move elsewhere too. When I build
livestock shelters, I dont put the posts in the ground. They are built
on top of railroad ties, and that means they can be moved, so no taxes.
(I do put trailer home anchors in the ground so they dont blow over
during storms, but that's still legal).

But Amerigas seems to be the cheapest (Suburban and Kamps being two
of the others).

The company I usually get my gas from, is a local farmer owned company
that also sells livestock feed, crop seed, and fertilizers.

On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 04:47:58 -0000 (UTC), "M. Stradbury"
wrote:

On Thu, 17 Dec 2015 18:24:09 -0600, Paintedcow wrote:

If the tank does go empty, DONT TELL THEM THAT AT THE OFFICE.
The same guy always fills my tank, and he told me that if I dont tell
them, he's not going to report me, or charge me for an inspection.

What's the danger if the tank goes empty anyway?

Absolutely nothing. It's a way they can screw an extra $50 or more from
a customer. If the gas was shut off for years, I could sort of
understand it, because stuff can rust and corrode. But if I run out of
gas on Monday and call them on Tuesday, there is no excuse or need to
inspect. Yet, if I tell them at the office I ran out, they will do their
useless inspection and charge me $50.

When my gas tank is filled, my furnace pilot light is OFF and cant leak
gas. My old range has the old pilot lights, so a very tiny amount of gas
can leak, but it's not enough to really cause a problem. But to be 100%
safe, and also to protect them, I told them to write on my record, to
always shut off the valve that goes to the house if I'm not home, when
they fill the tank. All that means is that I have to re-light my pilot
lights. No biggie! (only my furnace and range). My water heater is
electric.

On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 08:04:45 -0000 (UTC), "M. Stradbury"
wrote:

On Thu, 17 Dec 2015 22:50:40 -0700, rbowman wrote:

The pilot lights go out. For furnaces and so forth once the pilot is out
the valve should shut off until you relight the pilot. I have a gas
range where the pilot would continue to leak gas until it's lit. No big
deal since the flow is so low.

This house has no pilots other than, I guess, the hot water heater.
The gas stove & the gas fireplace is electrically ignited.
So is the furnace.
I think the hot water heater has the typical big red knob & pilot light.

So, I guess, if the gas runs out, the only problem is that the pilot
goes out, so, we'd simply turn off the big red knob.

Is that correct?

You dont even have to turn that off. Once the flame goes out, the
thermocouple prevents gas from coming out the pilot light. But when you
re-light the pilot, you need to turn that big red knob to OFF, then to
PILOT, and when that's lit, turn it to ON.

Generally, only older kitchen ranges might leak a little gas from the
pilot lights. But it's very little. Actually, in the summer, I turn off
my range pilot lights to eliminate that extra heat in the house and to
save gas. This is partly because I cook outdoors on my grill more than
indoors in hot weather. Pilot lights are really not needed on ranges.
Just keep a cig lighter next to the stove, and use that to ignite the
flame. But some people seem to want everything "instant on". To me,
stuff like that is insignificant. So it takes me an extra 5 seconds to
flick my bic... Who cares.

On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 03:42:26 -0600, wrote:



Generally, only older kitchen ranges might leak a little gas from the
pilot lights. But it's very little. Actually, in the summer, I turn off

Absolutely. Even my mother, who worried about a lot of things, wasn't
worried when the pilot light went off. When we smelled the gas, she
relit the pilot. Most noses are very sensitive and it takes barely
anything to smell the natural gas. ... Isn't propane the same way?

Of course were were home 351 days a year. If she'd been away for a
week and the smell was stronger than 6 hours of pilot leakage, she
probably would have opened the windows and waited for it to air out.


my range pilot lights to eliminate that extra heat in the house and to
save gas. This is partly because I cook outdoors on my grill more than
indoors in hot weather. Pilot lights are really not needed on ranges.
Just keep a cig lighter next to the stove, and use that to ignite the
flame. But some people seem to want everything "instant on". To me,
stuff like that is insignificant. So it takes me an extra 5 seconds to
flick my bic... Who cares.

On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 06:31:13 -0500, Micky
wrote:

On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 03:42:26 -0600, wrote:



my range pilot lights to eliminate that extra heat in the house and to
save gas. This is partly because I cook outdoors on my grill more than
indoors in hot weather. Pilot lights are really not needed on ranges.
Just keep a cig lighter next to the stove, and use that to ignite the
flame. But some people seem to want everything "instant on". To me,
stuff like that is insignificant. So it takes me an extra 5 seconds to
flick my bic... Who cares.

Our oven didnt' have a pilot, and that was lit with a match. Somehow
the flame was sucked off the match to the burner, and the match wasn't
burning anymore. Spooky.

On Thu, 17 Dec 2015 22:47:58 -0600, M. Stradbury
wrote:

On Thu, 17 Dec 2015 18:24:09 -0600, Paintedcow wrote:

If the tank does go empty, DONT TELL THEM THAT AT THE OFFICE.
The same guy always fills my tank, and he told me that if I dont tell
them, he's not going to report me, or charge me for an inspection.

What's the danger if the tank goes empty anyway?

I have a cooktop that uses the always own very small
pilot lights. I think all the old gas ranges were like that.
There is no safety device built into them. There would be a
possibility that the house fills with enough gas or propane
to cause an explosion if the homeowner was gone for a long
time.
Did they do anything to check for leaks during the inspection?

--
Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

M. Stradbury:

http://www.thesilkroadchina.com/phot...oom-cloud.html

!

On 12/17/15 7:08 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
M. Stradbury wrote:
I just bought a house with a 1,000 gallon propane tank owned
by the house and property tax is paid on the tank which is
a California-only thing I hear.

They just filled the tank up to 85% (they wouldn't fill further
they told my wife, otherwise it could blow up, they said).

They told me the price is $1.45 per gallon of propane plus
about a twenty dollar "hazmat" fee whatever that means, for a
total price a bit over a thousand dollars for the fill.

They said they "inspected" the system (which was existing), and
they inspected the tank which is on on four-inch thick concrete
slab bolted down by straps for earthquakes), and they charge $100
for that inspection (my wife let them in the house but she doesn't
know what they did).

I never had propane before.
I don't begrudge them anything.

But, I also don't know what's normal.
Is this normal stuff?

Asking questions after the fact? Funny!

Nope, sad really. He must have skipped school the day they covered
critical thinking skills...

--
Life is tough.....it's even tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne

On 12/17/2015 11:19 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:

It's my understanding that the tank isn't filled
all the way because room in the tank is needed for
the liquid propane to evaporate into gas

CY: The extra space is for hot days when the liquid
expands. If it expanded "too much", the pressure
relief vent would release liquid propane. Which would
vaporize rapidly, and create a fire hazzard.

and the gas, not liquid propane is what is fed into
the home. The higher the demand for propane gas from
a tank, the more surface area is needed inside the
tank thus a larger tank is needed.

CY: What's more an issue is how much liquid and
steel is there to provide heat for the boiling
liquid. Also the temperature of the air around the
tank, and the surface of the tank to absorb heat.


That's why you can't run a large furnace from a
20 pound cylinder. The liquid in the small tank
can't boil into gas fast enough to supply the
furnace with enough gas except for testing. (ヅ)

CY: I've run a furnace from a 20 pounder in the
winter. It can be done. The tank doesn't last
very long.




[8~{} Uncle LP Monster


CY: The heating and AC guy who's helped friends
out when they ran out of LP.


--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 12/17/2015 11:40 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Right that is common knowledge as well as safety issue. I saw few times
camping trailer tanks blowing safety valve spewing cloudy gas into air
during summer camping.

I've never done this, but that cloudy gas
should be explosive flammable. Go there and
strike a match. Real blast. Do not try this
at home, we are professionals.

--
..
Christopher [Third Degree Burns] Young
learn more about Jesus [Just saw Him....]
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 12/18/2015 01:04 AM, M. Stradbury wrote:
So, I guess, if the gas runs out, the only problem is that the pilot
goes out, so, we'd simply turn off the big red knob.

Is that correct?


Yes. My furnace has three positions on the knob, off, on, and pilot. To
light it, you turn the know to pilot. There's a notch at that location
that allows you to push down a button and then light the pilot. Hold it
for about 30 seconds to heat the thermocouple, and then turn it to the
on position.

On a new setup, the lines are filled with air, so it can take a while to
purge out the air. Turning the burners on the range helps bleed it out.

It's a lot safer today when a lot of appliances have electronic ignition
rather than pilot lights that were always lit.

On 12/18/2015 01:27 AM, Micky wrote:
I thougght one of the big problems was that if the tank is empty it
might mean there is a leak.

If the usage is abnormal, sure. If you just let it run out, no. I did
have one time when after they filled the tank the tank check valve
didn't seat. It was very cold and there might have been enough moisture
to ice it up. I could smell it and the tank was going down too fast.
They came out, refilled the tank, and screwed another valve onto the
filler fitting until they could sort it out in the spring.

With the ethanethiol they put into the gas you'd have to be nasally
challenged not to smell a leak.

On 12/18/2015 02:42 AM, wrote:
Generally, only older kitchen ranges might leak a little gas from the
pilot lights. But it's very little. Actually, in the summer, I turn off
my range pilot lights to eliminate that extra heat in the house and to
save gas.

I only have the pilot on the top burners and not the oven. Sometimes in
the summer when the windows are open it will blow out. If I'm not using
the stove it can take a day or two before there's enough concentration
to smell, let alone be a problem.

I turn the furnace pilot off in the summer. On warm days the pilot can
heat the furnace up enough that it triggers the fan sensor. No harm
except the fan sounds like a 727 taking off.

On 12/18/2015 04:31 AM, Micky wrote:
Absolutely. Even my mother, who worried about a lot of things, wasn't
worried when the pilot light went off. When we smelled the gas, she
relit the pilot. Most noses are very sensitive and it takes barely
anything to smell the natural gas. ... Isn't propane the same way?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanethiol

That says one part in 2.8 billion is detectable. I'd hate to smell the
stuff straight up.

On 12/18/2015 04:32 AM, Micky wrote:
Our oven didnt' have a pilot, and that was lit with a match. Somehow
the flame was sucked off the match to the burner, and the match wasn't
burning anymore. Spooky.

I usually have a few sticks of incense and I'll light one and use that
to light the oven. You can get the stick down through the hole easier
than a match. With the match if the gas is slow getting up through the
hole you can get a pretty good whoosh. Knocks the carbon off the oven
racks

On Friday, December 18, 2015 at 2:04:56 AM UTC-6, M. Stradbury wrote:
On Thu, 17 Dec 2015 22:50:40 -0700, rbowman wrote:

The pilot lights go out. For furnaces and so forth once the pilot is out
the valve should shut off until you relight the pilot. I have a gas
range where the pilot would continue to leak gas until it's lit. No big
deal since the flow is so low.

This house has no pilots other than, I guess, the hot water heater.
The gas stove & the gas fireplace is electrically ignited.
So is the furnace.
I think the hot water heater has the typical big red knob & pilot light.

So, I guess, if the gas runs out, the only problem is that the pilot
goes out, so, we'd simply turn off the big red knob.

Is that correct?

The gas valve is supposed to cut off if the pilot light goes out on your gas water heater. The pilot continuously heats a thermocouple which produces a small electrical current which keeps the gas valve open regardless of the position of the red knob unless it is manually turned to the "Off" position. The gas valve with pilot heated thermocouple is a very reliable system that's been around for a long time and is usually maintenance free. (€¢€¿€¢)

[8~{} Uncle Pilot Monster

On 12/17/2015 8:47 PM, M. Stradbury wrote:
On Thu, 17 Dec 2015 17:52:37 -0600, Paintedcow wrote:

If I did not OWN my tank, it would cost me over $100 a year to lease a
tank from them.

This outfit is called Amerigas.

They charge $60 per year to rent the tank, with the first year free.
Of course, if you rent their tank, you don't have to pay for 10-year
inspections of the regulators and the like, but you are limited to
only getting gas from them.

Since the tank came with the house, and since I pay property tax
on it every year, I can go to anyone I want.

But Amerigas seems to be the cheapest (Suburban and Kamps being two
of the others).

Did he **** her yet?
LOL

On Friday, December 18, 2015 at 8:40:31 AM UTC-6, rbowman wrote:
On 12/18/2015 04:31 AM, Micky wrote:
Absolutely. Even my mother, who worried about a lot of things, wasn't
worried when the pilot light went off. When we smelled the gas, she
relit the pilot. Most noses are very sensitive and it takes barely
anything to smell the natural gas. ... Isn't propane the same way?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanethiol

That says one part in 2.8 billion is detectable. I'd hate to smell the
stuff straight up.

Mercaptan is a great prank substance for chemistry students to play with even more powerful a terrorist weapon than hydrogen sulfide. My oldest brother and his pals went into the chemistry lab at school, dissolved hydrogen sulfide gas into a jar of cold water, took the jar to the cafeteria, placed the open jar on a radiator then slunk away. It was like the Jolly Green Giant farted in there and it cleared the room. The monks had their suspicions but couldn't prove which miscreant did the deed. ヽ(^o^)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Stinky Monster