Per Uncle Monster:
Mercaptan is a great prank substance for chemistry students to play with even more powerful a
terrorist weapon than hydrogen sulfide. My oldest brother and his pals went into the chemistry
lab at school, dissolved hydrogen sulfide gas into a jar of cold water, took the jar to the cafeteria,
placed the open jar on a radiator then slunk away. It was like the Jolly Green Giant farted in there
and it cleared the room. The monks had their suspicions but couldn't prove which miscreant did the deed.

Maybe that's the stuff your chemistry teacher used to keep us under
control. The threat was that if we didn't behave, he would un-cork a
bottle of the stuff in our classroom. He did do it once... and that
was plenty for us...
--
Pete Cresswell

On Friday, December 18, 2015 at 2:36:12 PM UTC-6, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Uncle Monster:
Mercaptan is a great prank substance for chemistry students to play with even more powerful a
terrorist weapon than hydrogen sulfide. My oldest brother and his pals went into the chemistry
lab at school, dissolved hydrogen sulfide gas into a jar of cold water, took the jar to the cafeteria,
placed the open jar on a radiator then slunk away. It was like the Jolly Green Giant farted in there
and it cleared the room. The monks had their suspicions but couldn't prove which miscreant did the deed.

Maybe that's the stuff your chemistry teacher used to keep us under
control. The threat was that if we didn't behave, he would un-cork a
bottle of the stuff in our classroom. He did do it once... and that
was plenty for us...
--
Pete Cresswell

Speaking of hydrogen sulfide, I'm pretty much over the food poisoning I developed last week but a great volume of hydrogen sulfide gas has been escaping from my tailpipe ever since. (€¢€¿€¢)

[8~{} Uncle Gassy Monster

On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 11:19:39 PM UTC-5, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 4:55:05 PM UTC-6, M. Stradbury wrote:
I just bought a house with a 1,000 gallon propane tank owned
by the house and property tax is paid on the tank which is
a California-only thing I hear.

They just filled the tank up to 85% (they wouldn't fill further
they told my wife, otherwise it could blow up, they said).

They told me the price is $1.45 per gallon of propane plus
about a twenty dollar "hazmat" fee whatever that means, for a
total price a bit over a thousand dollars for the fill.

They said they "inspected" the system (which was existing), and
they inspected the tank which is on on four-inch thick concrete
slab bolted down by straps for earthquakes), and they charge $100
for that inspection (my wife let them in the house but she doesn't
know what they did).

I never had propane before.
I don't begrudge them anything.

But, I also don't know what's normal.
Is this normal stuff?

It's my understanding that the tank isn't filled all the way because room in the tank is needed for the liquid propane to evaporate into gas and the gas, not liquid propane is what is fed into the home. The higher the demand for propane gas from a tank, the more surface area is needed inside the tank thus a larger tank is needed. That's why you can't run a large furnace from a 20 pound cylinder. The liquid in the small tank can't boil into gas fast enough to supply the furnace with enough gas except for testing. (ヅ)


When I run my furnace off of a 20 lb tank, I use another 20 lb tank
to heat the tank used for the furnace so that the liquid boils faster.

Cousin "BOOM" Monster

On 12/17/2015 08:09 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

[snip]

When I worked for one place, they told us the 80%
capacity was already figured in, and we put 20
pounds in the 20 pounders. I thought it was 16,
but the boss said 20, and also the guy who taught
the certification course so I could pump propane.

Also read on line, Blue Rhino was at one point
put 15 pounds instead of 16. Maybe still do.


I just got a 20 pound propane tank filled. It weighted 20 pounds more
than the empty tank.

--
7 days until the winter celebration (Friday December 25, 2015 12:00:00
AM for 1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"The dogma of the infallibility of the Bible is no more self-evident
than is that of the infallibility of the popes." [Thomas Huxley]

On Thu, 17 Dec 2015 23:53:49 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 12/17/2015 09:50 PM, Clément wrote:
So, he says, it's a way that he gets to be "on-call" at auto-fill
prices.

I'm in a rural area but typically the truck is out my way once a week. I
just ask them to fill it when they're in the area and they don't charge
for the on-call. If I ran out completely or something and got them out
for a special trip, then they'd hit me for the call charge. I've only
got a 100 gallon tank so it's not like i'm going to suck the truck dry..

My parents had a 500 gallon for the farmhouse. The coop had a deal
for people to contract ahead for a cheaper price. I think it included a
keep full provision without trip charges.
The irrigation wells here on propane usually have at least one 1000
gallon tank, sometimes two.
There was a time when the coops would use the propane trailers to haul
anhydrous ammonia in season and vice versa. I don't know if they still do
that.


--
Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

On 12/18/2015 7:05 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 12/17/2015 08:09 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

[snip]

When I worked for one place, they told us the 80%
capacity was already figured in, and we put 20
pounds in the 20 pounders. I thought it was 16,
but the boss said 20, and also the guy who taught
the certification course so I could pump propane.

Also read on line, Blue Rhino was at one point
put 15 pounds instead of 16. Maybe still do.


I just got a 20 pound propane tank filled. It weighted 20 pounds more
than the empty tank.



http://www.orangecoat.com/the-truth-...-propane-tanks

These "20 lb" tanks are designed to take up to 20 pounds of propane. You
may get a pound or 2 less, depending on the temperature of the tank and
surrounding air when the tank was filled. Cooler = more propane in,
hotter = less in. Tanks can actually fit another 20% in the tank, but
that extra space is designed for expansion as the temperature rises.

In very cold winter climates, like Canada, there may be more
concern/rules about filling a tank to a complete 20 lbs. This is because
if you leave a tank outside in very cold temps, filled the tank when the
tank is cold, and then bring it into a hot basement/garage for a space
heater, the gas will expand as the tank warms. With enough of a
temperature increase, the tank's pressure relief value will release a
bit of gas. This would be less of an issue if the relief value were
bleeding to outside air.

Propane Tank Tare Weight on Collar

All propane tanks have a "tare weight" or "T.W." stamped on the collar
of the tank. For a grill sized tank you simply calculate the tare weight
+ 20 lbs, and that's how much the tank should weigh when it's full. Most
20 lb tanks have a tare weight of +/- 17 pounds when completely empty.
This means a "full" propane tank should weigh about 37 pounds.

There is also a month and year on the collar indicating the date the
tank was made. For 20 lb propane tanks, you have 12 years from the
manufacture date before the tank must be re-certified with a new date
stamped on it. The re-certification only adds 5 years before having to
re-certify again. The cost and inconvenience of re-certifying almost
always outweighs the price of a new tank.

Brand new propane tanks may come with air inside and need to be "purged"
before the first fill. Some newer tanks, like Bernzomatic, will have a
sticker on them saying they don't need to be purged within 6 months of
the manufacture date.

Purging requires a special adapter to allow a small amount of propane
in. The pressure then pushes air out of a one-way bleeder valve. Purging
may add another $3-4 dollars to a new tank, though some places don't
charge, especially if you buy the tank from them.

Internet searches suggest the following:

1 gallon of propane weighs 4.2 pounds
A "full" 20 lb cylinder should have 4.7 gallons or propane in it

On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 07:39:23 -0700, rbowman wrote:


I only have the pilot on the top burners and not the oven. Sometimes in
the summer when the windows are open it will blow out. If I'm not using
the stove it can take a day or two before there's enough concentration
to smell, let alone be a problem.

I turn the furnace pilot off in the summer. On warm days the pilot can
heat the furnace up enough that it triggers the fan sensor. No harm
except the fan sounds like a 727 taking off.

Ive had that happen many times. In fact, even if the pilot is off, my
furnace blower may start running because its so hot in the house. I dont
use AC. The solution is to just shut off the entire furnace. No gas, no
electricity. I rigged up a furnace blower in a window. That sucks the
hot air out of the house a lot faster than plain old window fans, and
dont cost a fortune to run, like an AC does.

On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 06:32:38 -0500, Micky
wrote:

On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 06:31:13 -0500, Micky
wrote:

On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 03:42:26 -0600, wrote:



my range pilot lights to eliminate that extra heat in the house and to
save gas. This is partly because I cook outdoors on my grill more than
indoors in hot weather. Pilot lights are really not needed on ranges.
Just keep a cig lighter next to the stove, and use that to ignite the
flame. But some people seem to want everything "instant on". To me,
stuff like that is insignificant. So it takes me an extra 5 seconds to
flick my bic... Who cares.

Our oven didnt' have a pilot, and that was lit with a match. Somehow
the flame was sucked off the match to the burner, and the match wasn't
burning anymore. Spooky.

Matches are a pain in the ass. And the cheap cardboard ones you often
get for free, are very poorly made these days. The old wooden ones are
better. But for th oven (and the burners), I use one of those "fireplace
lighters". Basically just a cig lighter with a long extension. That
prevents burned fingers.

I shut the pilot off entirely in my oven. I dont bake, so it's probably
been at least a year since I used the oven, and that was to dry out a
metal can full of nails I forgot to bring indoors before it rained.

On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 09:27:28 -0500, "Donald T. Rump"
wrote:

On 12/18/2015 04:30 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 04:47:58 -0000 (UTC), "M. Stradbury"
wrote:

On Thu, 17 Dec 2015 18:24:09 -0600, Paintedcow wrote:

If the tank does go empty, DONT TELL THEM THAT AT THE OFFICE.
The same guy always fills my tank, and he told me that if I dont tell
them, he's not going to report me, or charge me for an inspection.

What's the danger if the tank goes empty anyway?

Absolutely nothing. It's a way they can screw an extra $50 or more from
a customer. If the gas was shut off for years, I could sort of
understand it, because stuff can rust and corrode. But if I run out of
gas on Monday and call them on Tuesday, there is no excuse or need to
inspect. Yet, if I tell them at the office I ran out, they will do their
useless inspection and charge me $50.


Absolutely wrong!

If the tank and lines are filled with air, there is a small risk of explosion.
Reputable suppliers use (tank and line) purge procedures when the tank has gone empty.


They did that when I first bought my tank.
But just having the furnace running my tank out of gas because I did not
fill the tank, dont let air in. There's still a little gas, but not
enough pressure to keep the pilot going.

On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 05:50:59 -0600, "Dean Hoffman"
wrote:

I have a cooktop that uses the always own very small
pilot lights. I think all the old gas ranges were like that.
There is no safety device built into them. There would be a
possibility that the house fills with enough gas or propane
to cause an explosion if the homeowner was gone for a long
time.
Did they do anything to check for leaks during the inspection?

They did that when I first connected this system up.

They also did it when they insisted my (working) regulator had to be
replaced because it was an old model. I bitched about that, because they
said it would cost me over $100. They finally just changed it at no cost
to me, then pressure tested the system. (This is one advantage to
getting gas from the same supplier).

On 12/18/2015 8:01 PM, wrote:
Ive had that happen many times. In fact, even if the pilot is off, my
furnace blower may start running because its so hot in the house. I dont
use AC. The solution is to just shut off the entire furnace. No gas, no
electricity. I rigged up a furnace blower in a window. That sucks the
hot air out of the house a lot faster than plain old window fans, and
dont cost a fortune to run, like an AC does.


In my last trailer, no AC. One time it got up to
93F daytime, with 103 indoors. The fan came on.

Furnace blower fan sounds like a good idea. I
sure wished for a window AC in at least the
bedroom.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 12/18/2015 05:07 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
My parents had a 500 gallon for the farmhouse. The coop had a deal
for people to contract ahead for a cheaper price. I think it included a
keep full provision without trip charges.

I buy for the winter in August. The way the market is going this year, I
may lose on the deal. However the year propane went through the roof, I
made out.

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 11:19:39 PM UTC-5, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 4:55:05 PM UTC-6, M. Stradbury wrote:
I just bought a house with a 1,000 gallon propane tank owned
by the house and property tax is paid on the tank which is
a California-only thing I hear.

They just filled the tank up to 85% (they wouldn't fill further
they told my wife, otherwise it could blow up, they said).

They told me the price is $1.45 per gallon of propane plus
about a twenty dollar "hazmat" fee whatever that means, for a
total price a bit over a thousand dollars for the fill.

They said they "inspected" the system (which was existing), and
they inspected the tank which is on on four-inch thick concrete
slab bolted down by straps for earthquakes), and they charge $100
for that inspection (my wife let them in the house but she doesn't
know what they did).

I never had propane before.
I don't begrudge them anything.

But, I also don't know what's normal.
Is this normal stuff?

It's my understanding that the tank isn't filled all the way because room in the tank is needed for the liquid propane to evaporate into gas and the gas, not liquid propane is what is fed into the home. The higher the demand for propane gas from a tank, the more surface area is needed inside the tank thus a larger tank is needed. That's why you can't run a large furnace from a 20 pound cylinder. The liquid in the small tank can't boil into gas fast enough to supply the furnace with enough gas except for testing. (ヅ)


When I run my furnace off of a 20 lb tank, I use another 20 lb tank
to heat the tank used for the furnace so that the liquid boils faster.

Cousin "BOOM" Monster

There is winter grade propane.

On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 07:45:23 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 12/18/2015 04:32 AM, Micky wrote:
Our oven didnt' have a pilot, and that was lit with a match. Somehow
the flame was sucked off the match to the burner, and the match wasn't
burning anymore. Spooky.

I usually have a few sticks of incense and I'll light one and use that

My mother didn't use incense. What do you think she was, a hippie? A
hippie born in 1908 and it's then 1955!

She used matches for cigarettes too, until she stopped smoking about
1957.

to light the oven. You can get the stick down through the hole easier
than a match. With the match if the gas is slow getting up through the
hole you can get a pretty good whoosh. Knocks the carbon off the oven
racks

We only got a little whoosh.

See my soon to be posted thread about antique ovens. Well, I'm
sleepy. Maybe tomorrow.

On 12/18/2015 08:08 PM, Micky wrote:
My mother didn't use incense. What do you think she was, a hippie? A
hippie born in 1908 and it's then 1955!

My mother used incense and she was born in 1903..

http://www.laurelleaffarm.com/1930s-...ense-boxes.htm

There was always a box of Rani incense and a green plaster Buddha on the
bathroom radiator. She preferred the sandalwood variety. I wish they
still made it; it had a nice smell.

I still use incense, mostly in the winter when the cave is buttoned up
tight. I like it better than the air freshener stuff.

On Friday, December 18, 2015 at 3:21:41 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 11:19:39 PM UTC-5, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 4:55:05 PM UTC-6, M. Stradbury wrote:
I just bought a house with a 1,000 gallon propane tank owned
by the house and property tax is paid on the tank which is
a California-only thing I hear.

They just filled the tank up to 85% (they wouldn't fill further
they told my wife, otherwise it could blow up, they said).

They told me the price is $1.45 per gallon of propane plus
about a twenty dollar "hazmat" fee whatever that means, for a
total price a bit over a thousand dollars for the fill.

They said they "inspected" the system (which was existing), and
they inspected the tank which is on on four-inch thick concrete
slab bolted down by straps for earthquakes), and they charge $100
for that inspection (my wife let them in the house but she doesn't
know what they did).

I never had propane before.
I don't begrudge them anything.

But, I also don't know what's normal.
Is this normal stuff?

It's my understanding that the tank isn't filled all the way because room in the tank is needed for the liquid propane to evaporate into gas and the gas, not liquid propane is what is fed into the home. The higher the demand for propane gas from a tank, the more surface area is needed inside the tank thus a larger tank is needed. That's why you can't run a large furnace from a 20 pound cylinder. The liquid in the small tank can't boil into gas fast enough to supply the furnace with enough gas except for testing. (ヅ)

When I run my furnace off of a 20 lb tank, I use another 20 lb tank
to heat the tank used for the furnace so that the liquid boils faster.

Cousin "BOOM" Monster

Yea, you can run a small furnace off of one if the tank is inside the dwelling with the heater so the ambient air can warm the tank. I had an infrared heater that attached to and used the tank as a base. It worked on any upright tank that had the same type valve as a propane tank from a barbecue grill. That heater was about 12" square and put out a great deal of heat. I have a small one that screws on top of a propane torch cylinder. It had a round plastic base included which fit the bottom of the standard cylinder to give it more stability. The added base was unneeded with the larger diameter squat cylinders used on camping stoves. Those heaters served me well during power outages until I installed one of the natural gas infrared heaters on the wall in the hallway at the house. That type heater is a big improvement over the NG heaters we had at home when I was a kid. (€¢€¿€¢)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr15rPHEmeQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-nOPvXiIWQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsppNOHdQII

[8~{} Uncle Infrared Monster

On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 23:11:35 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 12/18/2015 08:08 PM, Micky wrote:
My mother didn't use incense. What do you think she was, a hippie? A
hippie born in 1908 and it's then 1955!

My mother used incense and she was born in 1903..

Wow. It's a shame they never met.

(Maybe your mother could have gotten my mother to join a commune.)

http://www.laurelleaffarm.com/1930s-...ense-boxes.htm

There was always a box of Rani incense and a green plaster Buddha on the
bathroom radiator. She preferred the sandalwood variety. I wish they
still made it; it had a nice smell.

I still use incense, mostly in the winter when the cave is buttoned up
tight. I like it better than the air freshener stuff.

She never used air freshener either. I never noticed a smell.

On 12/19/2015 08:08 AM, Micky wrote:
On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 23:11:35 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 12/18/2015 08:08 PM, Micky wrote:
My mother didn't use incense. What do you think she was, a hippie? A
hippie born in 1908 and it's then 1955!

My mother used incense and she was born in 1903..

Wow. It's a shame they never met.

(Maybe your mother could have gotten my mother to join a commune.)

http://www.laurelleaffarm.com/1930s-...ense-boxes.htm

There was always a box of Rani incense and a green plaster Buddha on the
bathroom radiator. She preferred the sandalwood variety. I wish they
still made it; it had a nice smell.

I still use incense, mostly in the winter when the cave is buttoned up
tight. I like it better than the air freshener stuff.

She never used air freshener either. I never noticed a smell.


So you're saying your **** doesn't stink. Okaaaaay....

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...tle_romeo2.jpg ....

Uncle Monster posted for all of us...



On Friday, December 18, 2015 at 8:40:31 AM UTC-6, rbowman wrote:
On 12/18/2015 04:31 AM, Micky wrote:
Absolutely. Even my mother, who worried about a lot of things, wasn't
worried when the pilot light went off. When we smelled the gas, she
relit the pilot. Most noses are very sensitive and it takes barely
anything to smell the natural gas. ... Isn't propane the same way?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanethiol

That says one part in 2.8 billion is detectable. I'd hate to smell the
stuff straight up.

Mercaptan is a great prank substance for chemistry students to play with even more powerful a terrorist weapon than hydrogen sulfide. My oldest brother and his pals went into the chemistry lab at school, dissolved hydrogen sulfide gas into a jar of cold water, took the jar to the cafeteria, placed the open jar on a radiator then slunk away. It was like the Jolly Green Giant farted in there and it cleared the room. The monks had their suspicions but
couldn't prove which miscreant did the deed. ?(^o^)?

[8~{} Uncle Stinky Monster


Didn't have his fingerprints on file? (g)
--
Tekkie

On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 18:59:52 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

There is winter grade propane.

Really?

You sure?

Propane is a simple chemical.

C-C-C

How do they make 3 carbons (and a few hydrogens) a "winter" grade?

On Saturday, December 19, 2015 at 2:35:25 PM UTC-6, Tekkie® wrote:
Uncle Monster posted for all of us...



On Friday, December 18, 2015 at 8:40:31 AM UTC-6, rbowman wrote:
On 12/18/2015 04:31 AM, Micky wrote:
Absolutely. Even my mother, who worried about a lot of things, wasn't
worried when the pilot light went off. When we smelled the gas, she
relit the pilot. Most noses are very sensitive and it takes barely
anything to smell the natural gas. ... Isn't propane the same way?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanethiol

That says one part in 2.8 billion is detectable. I'd hate to smell the
stuff straight up.

Mercaptan is a great prank substance for chemistry students to play with even more powerful a terrorist weapon than hydrogen sulfide. My oldest brother and his pals went into the chemistry lab at school, dissolved hydrogen sulfide gas into a jar of cold water, took the jar to the cafeteria, placed the open jar on a radiator then slunk away. It was like the Jolly Green Giant farted in there and it cleared the room. The monks had their suspicions but
couldn't prove which miscreant did the deed. ?(^o^)?

[8~{} Uncle Stinky Monster

Didn't have his fingerprints on file? (g)
--
Tekkie

The seminary didn't have the equipment then. Now I think the school takes DNA samples from all incoming students and sends one of them to The Vatican. (€¢€¿€¢)

[8~{} Uncle Delinquent Monster

On Saturday, December 19, 2015 at 2:58:03 PM UTC-6, M. Stradbury wrote:
On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 18:59:52 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

There is winter grade propane.

Really?

You sure?

Propane is a simple chemical.

C-C-C

How do they make 3 carbons (and a few hydrogens) a "winter" grade?

The supplier mixes in hydrogen.ヽ(€¢€¿€¢)ノ

[8~{} Uncle LPG Monster

Uncle Monster wrote:
On Saturday, December 19, 2015 at 2:58:03 PM UTC-6, M. Stradbury wrote:
On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 18:59:52 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

There is winter grade propane.

Really?

You sure?

Propane is a simple chemical.

C-C-C

How do they make 3 carbons (and a few hydrogens) a "winter" grade?

The supplier mixes in hydrogen.ヽ(€¢€¿€¢)ノ

[8~{} Uncle LPG Monster

We used to fill winter grade on our camping trailer to use in winter
time. I heard it is mixed with Butane to keep it from freezing. Well
there is winter grade gasoline too.

Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 10:40:53 PM UTC-6, Tony Hwang wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 4:55:05 PM UTC-6, M. Stradbury wrote:
I just bought a house with a 1,000 gallon propane tank owned
by the house and property tax is paid on the tank which is
a California-only thing I hear.

They just filled the tank up to 85% (they wouldn't fill further
they told my wife, otherwise it could blow up, they said).

They told me the price is $1.45 per gallon of propane plus
about a twenty dollar "hazmat" fee whatever that means, for a
total price a bit over a thousand dollars for the fill.

They said they "inspected" the system (which was existing), and
they inspected the tank which is on on four-inch thick concrete
slab bolted down by straps for earthquakes), and they charge $100
for that inspection (my wife let them in the house but she doesn't
know what they did).

I never had propane before.
I don't begrudge them anything.

But, I also don't know what's normal.
Is this normal stuff?

It's my understanding that the tank isn't filled all the way because room in the tank is needed for the liquid propane to evaporate into gas and the gas, not liquid propane is what is fed into the home. The higher the demand for propane gas from a tank, the more surface area is needed inside the tank thus a larger tank is needed. That's why you can't run a large furnace from a 20 pound cylinder. The liquid in the small tank can't boil into gas fast enough to supply the furnace with enough gas except for testing. (ヅ)

[8~{} Uncle LP Monster

Right that is common knowledge as well as safety issue. I saw few times
camping trailer tanks blowing safety valve spewing cloudy gas into air
during summer camping.

I have my doubts that the OP knew that. You and I have had experience with propane for something other than operating a barbecue grill and I believe you understand the scientific principles explaining the behavior of LPG. ヽ(€¢€¿€¢)ノ

[8~~{} Uncle Gassy Monster

They always fill by the weight, not by the volume.

On 12/19/2015 7:04 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote:
On Saturday, December 19, 2015 at 2:58:03 PM UTC-6, M. Stradbury wrote:
On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 18:59:52 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

There is winter grade propane.

Really?

You sure?

Propane is a simple chemical.

C-C-C

How do they make 3 carbons (and a few hydrogens) a "winter" grade?

The supplier mixes in hydrogen.ヽ(€¢€¿€¢)ノ

[8~{} Uncle LPG Monster

We used to fill winter grade on our camping trailer to use in winter
time. I heard it is mixed with Butane to keep it from freezing. Well
there is winter grade gasoline too.

I don't remember 'all" of my chemistry. But butane
(four carbons, BTW) freezes easier than propane. If
memory serves, liquid butane has a boiling point of
+32F, and propane boils at -40F. Not sure about
freezing, but we are concerned with the boiling point
when discussing fuel vapor devices and tanks.

You can tank me later.

..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 12/19/2015 7:05 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote:
Right that is common knowledge as well as safety issue. I saw few times
camping trailer tanks blowing safety valve spewing cloudy gas into air
during summer camping.

I have my doubts that the OP knew that. You and I have had experience
with propane for something other than operating a barbecue grill and I
believe you understand the scientific principles explaining the
behavior of LPG. ヽ(€¢€¿€¢)ノ

[8~~{} Uncle Gassy Monster

They always fill by the weight, not by the volume.

I've had camp ground guy fill by volume, more than
once. He opened the screw driver slot valve, and
filled till liquid came out the vent hole.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

Stormin Mormon wrote:

"I've had camp ground guy fill by volume, more than
once. He opened the screw driver slot valve, and
filled till liquid came out the vent hole. "


http://yelnick.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8...b2e4970b-popup

On Saturday, December 19, 2015 at 6:04:43 PM UTC-6, Tony Hwang wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote:
On Saturday, December 19, 2015 at 2:58:03 PM UTC-6, M. Stradbury wrote:
On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 18:59:52 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

There is winter grade propane.

Really?

You sure?

Propane is a simple chemical.

C-C-C

How do they make 3 carbons (and a few hydrogens) a "winter" grade?

The supplier mixes in hydrogen.ヽ(€¢€¿€¢)ノ

[8~{} Uncle LPG Monster

We used to fill winter grade on our camping trailer to use in winter
time. I heard it is mixed with Butane to keep it from freezing. Well
there is winter grade gasoline too.

I was going to mention Butane but I thought, without researching it, that Propane had a lower boiling point. I recall reading something about refineries blending winter grade gasoline to have a higher vapor pressure so pollution standards could be met. I'm no chemist but I can use The Internet to find out. ヽ(€¢€¿€¢)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Gas Monster

On Saturday, December 19, 2015 at 6:05:54 PM UTC-6, Tony Hwang wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 10:40:53 PM UTC-6, Tony Hwang wrote:
Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 4:55:05 PM UTC-6, M. Stradbury wrote:
I just bought a house with a 1,000 gallon propane tank owned
by the house and property tax is paid on the tank which is
a California-only thing I hear.

They just filled the tank up to 85% (they wouldn't fill further
they told my wife, otherwise it could blow up, they said).

They told me the price is $1.45 per gallon of propane plus
about a twenty dollar "hazmat" fee whatever that means, for a
total price a bit over a thousand dollars for the fill.

They said they "inspected" the system (which was existing), and
they inspected the tank which is on on four-inch thick concrete
slab bolted down by straps for earthquakes), and they charge $100
for that inspection (my wife let them in the house but she doesn't
know what they did).

I never had propane before.
I don't begrudge them anything.

But, I also don't know what's normal.
Is this normal stuff?

It's my understanding that the tank isn't filled all the way because room in the tank is needed for the liquid propane to evaporate into gas and the gas, not liquid propane is what is fed into the home. The higher the demand for propane gas from a tank, the more surface area is needed inside the tank thus a larger tank is needed. That's why you can't run a large furnace from a 20 pound cylinder. The liquid in the small tank can't boil into gas fast enough to supply the furnace with enough gas except for testing. (ヅ)

[8~{} Uncle LP Monster

Right that is common knowledge as well as safety issue. I saw few times
camping trailer tanks blowing safety valve spewing cloudy gas into air
during summer camping.

I have my doubts that the OP knew that. You and I have had experience with propane for something other than operating a barbecue grill and I believe you understand the scientific principles explaining the behavior of LPG. ヽ(€¢€¿€¢)ノ

[8~~{} Uncle Gassy Monster

They always fill by the weight, not by the volume.

That resembles my dining habits. (€¢€¿€¢)

[8~{} Uncle Hungry Monster

On 12/20/2015 05:49 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:
I was going to mention Butane but I thought, without researching it, that Propane had a lower boiling point. I recall reading something about refineries blending winter grade gasoline to have a higher vapor pressure so pollution standards could be met. I'm no chemist but I can use The Internet to find out.

I haven't seen E10 around here but the city mandates oxygenated gasoline
in the winter months to reduce pollution. That's achieved by adding 8%
ethanol from November 1 to March 1.

Diesel also has winter blends. #2 diesel starts to gel at 5 to 10
degrees F as the paraffin starts to crystallize. In very cold places
like North Dakota the truck stops will have straight #1 (kerosene), but
most places will have a blend of #1 and #2. There are also additives.
Those can be handy if you fuel in CA where there's no winter blend and
are headed north.

On Sunday, December 20, 2015 at 1:58:46 PM UTC-6, rbowman wrote:
On 12/20/2015 05:49 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:
I was going to mention Butane but I thought, without researching it, that Propane had a lower boiling point. I recall reading something about refineries blending winter grade gasoline to have a higher vapor pressure so pollution standards could be met. I'm no chemist but I can use The Internet to find out.

I haven't seen E10 around here but the city mandates oxygenated gasoline
in the winter months to reduce pollution. That's achieved by adding 8%
ethanol from November 1 to March 1.

Diesel also has winter blends. #2 diesel starts to gel at 5 to 10
degrees F as the paraffin starts to crystallize. In very cold places
like North Dakota the truck stops will have straight #1 (kerosene), but
most places will have a blend of #1 and #2. There are also additives.
Those can be handy if you fuel in CA where there's no winter blend and
are headed north.

I'll have to look it up but I recall "MTBE ?" being used to oxygenate gasoline then it was found to be a carcinogen that was killing snails or something like that when it got into the environment. Everything we use for fuel is trying to kill us or damage the environment so I suppose we should only walk or ride bicycles. Š™.˜‰

[8~{} Uncle Polluted Monster

On Sat, 19 Dec 2015 17:04:34 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

We used to fill winter grade on our camping trailer to use in winter
time. I heard it is mixed with Butane to keep it from freezing. Well
there is winter grade gasoline too.

I don't know if there /is/ a winter-grade propane, but gasoline is
generally comprised of at least a hundred different chemicals, which,
compared to something as simple as propane, isn't at all the same thing.

On Sat, 19 Dec 2015 17:05:50 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

They always fill by the weight, not by the volume.

Are you sure?
Propane is a liquid when they pump it into your tank from their truck.

Also, they charge you by the gallon.
Their meter on the truck measures in gallons.

Although the meter on the tank measures in percent.

Of course, that doesn't mean they don't fill by weight.
But, it implies they measure gallons.