On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 05:16:57 -0400, Joe wrote:

Yes, the food particles from the dishes don't pollute the water.
A dishwasher could use 20 gallons of water and if we didn't use detergent,
the waste water would do no harm to the environment.

Hmm. The best oranges I ever ate were from gray water for a leach
filed. People have freaked out about phosphates in detergent.

On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 10:38:21 -0400, songbird
wrote:

blow the crud off the plates with compressed air before
loading the dishwasher.


songbird

Preacher visits a family of his congregation. Notices spots on his
dinner plate. The wife scoops it up and takes it to the back step.
Calls the dogs: Here Water, here Soap.

My dog is a garbage disposal and plate cleaner

On Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 2:59:48 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 15:53:11 -0400, wrote:

The only reason why they "make some money" is because the government
pays all of the collection, sorting and transportation cost. The
pittance they get paid for the material at the remanufacturing
facility is nowhere near what we paid to get it there.

As I said before, things like metal and some paper, in some places,
will make sense to transport but you can test that yourself. Go to a
scrap yard and see what they will pay you for a truckload of it.

Then balance that against what it costs for us to actually collect and
sort it.

Does _Cash for Clunkers_ ring a bell?

Yea, that moonbat program fuxored the used car market for quite a while because many of the "clunkers" were perfectly serviceable vehicles and the regulations called for the destruction of the engines. What kind of complete moonbattery is that? We must get the loons out of government and it will probably take an armed rebellion. I can't fight anymore so I'd have to drive a suicide wheelchair and sacrifice myself in the name of his Lord, The Flying Spaghetti Monster. I'd be honored to get my 72 meatballs. 8-)

[8~{} Uncle Spaghetti Monster

On Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 10:27:05 AM UTC-4, Terry Coombs wrote:
Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
"Terry Coombs" wrote:

And what's your problem with the VA ? You don't believe veterans
deserve the services they provide ?
Actually no, what with waiting times, lousy care, etc, I think
veterans deserve much better than the services the VA provides. You
been paying ANY attention to the news? (And from personal experience
with the VA, I can tell you some of this runs at least from the
mid-80s forward.

I suspect the problems might be regional , because I've had nothing but
positive experiences with my VA health care . I go in tomorrow for my annual
physical , the appointment was made less than 2 weeks ago . The staff at the
Mountain Home Ar. center is VERY professional , they treat the patients with
respect , and the care is top notch . We also have a program now that if
you're more than 40 miles from a VA facility or can't get an appointment
within 30 days you can see a local provider . We're still looking for a doc
we like here , but it's nice to know I don't have to get hauled a hundred
miles to Little Rock if I have a hospital-type emergency . Or a cold for
that matter ...

--
Snag

the pittsburghVA management was notified of legionaires disease in the water system. the local head oof the VA did NOTHING, because clearing it up would of cost him his bonus.

a bunch of vets and some staff got sick and died. the jerk head still got his bonus, while what he should of got was a few years in prison...

phoenix VA and a bunch of others cooked the books, to make it appear they were doing a good job. they werent vets ied while waiting years

my dads in phoenix he said it was terrible

On Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 3:07:36 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 05:16:57 -0400, Joe wrote:

Yes, the food particles from the dishes don't pollute the water.
A dishwasher could use 20 gallons of water and if we didn't use detergent,
the waste water would do no harm to the environment.

Hmm. The best oranges I ever ate were from gray water for a leach
filed. People have freaked out about phosphates in detergent.

A fellow I met works for the county sewage plant and he told me that the largest most healthy looking food plants like tomatoes and melons were growing out of the sewage sludge that the sewage plant dumped at the landfill. O_o

[8~{} Uncle Sewage Monster

On 7/21/15 1:14 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 07/21/2015 10:56 AM, J Burns wrote:

[snip]

I've been using LED headlamps long enough that I wonder how I got along
on bulbs.

Three years ago, I got one whose 8-degree beam has the intensity of nine
100-watt incandescent bulbs on medium and runs 4 or 5 hours on a AA
cell. If that's not enough, high has the intensity of 25 100W bulbs.

That could be inconveniently narrow and intense indoors. Lately, I got
a second headlamp with a 23-degree beam. On high, the intensity is equal
to six 100W bulbs. On medium its equal to two 100W bulbs.

Usually, I'll run a bulb for a little ambient lighting. If I want a good
look at what I'm doing, I wear a headlamp.

One thing about LEDs is that with most the light is WHITE rather then
the yellow of incandescents.

I buy a headlamp brand where they tell you the model of Cree bulb, but
not the color. (Cree posts lots of color information for their bulbs.)

My second one, with the wider beam, seemed yellow compared to the first.
When I compared it to a full-spectrum light, it was pretty close.
Indoors, I like it. It has enough yellow to be cheery, and it shows
dirt better if I'm cleaning something.

I'd thought the outdoor light was white, but I guess it doesn't have
much yellow. Somehow, that makes it better for identifying an object 100
feet away.

My CFL bulbs are much too yellow for my taste. The package says only
"soft white."

On 7/21/2015 1:14 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 07/21/2015 10:56 AM, J Burns wrote:

Usually, I'll run a bulb for a little ambient lighting. If I want a good
look at what I'm doing, I wear a headlamp.

One thing about LEDs is that with most the light is WHITE rather then
the yellow of incandescents.


Most of my LED are distinctly blue.


--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 7/21/2015 4:18 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 2:59:48 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:

Then balance that against what it costs for us to actually collect and
sort it.

Does _Cash for Clunkers_ ring a bell?

Yea, that moonbat program fuxored the used car market
for quite a while because many of the "clunkers" were
perfectly serviceable vehicles and the regulations
called for the destruction of the engines. What kind
of complete moonbattery is that? We must get the loons
out of government and it will probably take an armed
rebellion. I can't fight anymore so I'd have to drive
a suicide wheelchair and sacrifice myself in the name
of his Lord, The Flying Spaghetti Monster. I'd be
honored to get my 72 meatballs. 8-)

[8~{} Uncle Spaghetti Monster


We'll have to strap a catheter, uh, I mean, a bomb
on you and make sure your scooter is fully charged
before you go to glory.

Long since lost the article, but I remember that one
of the klunkers, or more than one, showed up in Iraq,
with a bunch of guys with AK and RPG, on the back.

Dave's Plumbing, still stenciled on the drivers door.
Phone number still readable.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

"songbird" wrote in message
...
Robert Green wrote:
...
We put a man on the moon and built an A-bomb but this "clean dishes with
less water" thing has us flummoxed. At least according the appliance
manufacturers interviewed for that Fox report.

blow the crud off the plates with compressed air before
loading the dishwasher.

And have a kitchen wall covered with atomized linguini? (0-: I once tried
to clear an old, dirty condensate line in a refrigerator and blew a huge
sneeze of dirty black water out of the bottom of the unit and onto the floor
and wall.

--
Bobby G.

On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 18:54:42 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

Long since lost the article, but I remember that one
of the klunkers, or more than one, showed up in Iraq,
with a bunch of guys with AK and RPG, on the back.

Dave's Plumbing, still stenciled on the drivers door.
Phone number still readable.


A true story. The truck was from a man in Texas. sold at auction and
ended up being used by some rag heads in the middle east.

Once sold, the guy had no control on a secondary market sell.

On 7/21/2015 4:07 PM, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 05:16:57 -0400, Joe wrote:

Yes, the food particles from the dishes don't pollute the water.
A dishwasher could use 20 gallons of water and if we didn't use detergent,
the waste water would do no harm to the environment.

Hmm. The best oranges I ever ate were from gray water for a leach
filed. People have freaked out about phosphates in detergent.


The phosphates were causing good growth of green in lakes, streams, and
rivers. The secondary actions are the problem, not in the DW

On 2015-07-21, Robert Green wrote: so
impossible to believe such dishwashers can be created? Cars used to get
11 MPG and now they get incredible higher mileage out of the same single
gallon of gasoline. Why? Because the Feds pushed the industry to do so.

Utter and complete bilge. What are you, like 12 years old? There were
a number of compact cars available in the 1950s and 1960s capable of
delivering 20-25 miles per gallon, some of the smaller imports even higher.
I've owned some of them myself over the years.

We don't need cadre of armed thugs (which is all that government is) dictating
every aspect of our lives. I still use full-flow toilets and shower heads,
and in general refuse to follow the dictates of the federal scumbags. They're
little more than a criminal gang -- screw the *******s.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Change "invalid" to "com" for email. Google Groups killfiled.)

NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 7/20/15 10:07 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/20/2015 7:52 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:


I remember reading something about the city of San Francisco finding
it necessary to use thousands of gallons of toxic chemicals to flush
their sewer systems because of the widespread adoption of water saving
toilets and plumbing fixtures not putting enough water into the sewer
system to flush queer poop down the line to the sewage treatment
plant. The law of unintended results strikes La La Land again and
again. O_o

[8~{} Uncle Sewer Monster


I can believe that. Our 1.6 gpf toilets do a great job of clearing the
bowl, but I always wonder about moving things down the line to the
street. I double flush often, not from need,, but for safety.
http://www.lowes.com/cd_Can+Your+Plumbing+System+Handle+a+LowFlow+Toile t_1350913159827_

Lowes says a waste pipe should work fine if the slope is between 1/8 and
1/4 inch per foot.

If the slope isn't right, you can have a plumber fix it or use a
pressure-assisted toilet.

Ed Pawlowski:

Phosphates phogging up my
PHUCKING pool! xD

On 7/21/2015 10:16 PM, Roger Blake wrote:
On 2015-07-21, Robert Green wrote: so
impossible to believe such dishwashers can be created? Cars used to get
11 MPG and now they get incredible higher mileage out of the same single
gallon of gasoline. Why? Because the Feds pushed the industry to do so.

Utter and complete bilge. What are you, like 12 years old? There were
a number of compact cars available in the 1950s and 1960s capable of
delivering 20-25 miles per gallon, some of the smaller imports even higher.
I've owned some of them myself over the years.

The equivalent to that 25 mpg car in the 60s is now 40 mpg.

That full size Chevy Caprice that got 11 mpg is now getting 28 mpg and
is not stinking as much as the typical 50/60s cars.

My Sonata 2.0 Turbo will beat the older 10 mpg Cameros in the 1/4 mile
and still get 28 mpg.

In article ,
Uncle Monster wrote:

Penn & Teller did an episode of "Bull****" on the subject of
recycling. It was a mistake to elect people from La La Land into
public office. o_O

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh-KDa_Jmok

Wasn't that one of the ones they retracted?

I'm reminded of the scene from that episode where they abuse a test
subject with a large number of arbitrary recycle bins when I think about
how many ways I actually do separate what I discard...
0) Foodstuff-compost barrel where it rot or be flung all over by the crows and ravens
1) Paper,plastic,glass-transfer station, no fee
2) Plastic Redemption Value-recyc center, worth $
3) Aluminum cans-recyc center, worth $
4) Diapers (used, not by me)-transfer station, $6/can
5) Batteries-transfer station, no fee
6) Electronics-transfer station, no fee
7) Flourescent light bubs-hazmobile comes twice/year, no fee
8) Motor oil-dump into crick
9) Trash (whatever's left, almost entirely plastic wrap)-transfer station, $6/can

Piece of cake (compost barrel).
m

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 7/21/2015 10:16 PM, Roger Blake wrote:
On 2015-07-21, Robert Green wrote: so
impossible to believe such dishwashers can be created? Cars used to get

11 MPG and now they get incredible higher mileage out of the same single

gallon of gasoline. Why? Because the Feds pushed the industry to do so.

Utter and complete bilge. What are you, like 12 years old? There were
a number of compact cars available in the 1950s and 1960s capable of
delivering 20-25 miles per gallon, some of the smaller imports even
higher.
I've owned some of them myself over the years.

The equivalent to that 25 mpg car in the 60s is now 40 mpg.

That full size Chevy Caprice that got 11 mpg is now getting 28 mpg and
is not stinking as much as the typical 50/60s cars.

My Sonata 2.0 Turbo will beat the older 10 mpg Cameros in the 1/4 mile
and still get 28 mpg.

Thanks for the sanity check. I don't feel the need to respond to Mr. Blake,
who seems to think adults make debating points by first insulting someone.
I would say he's got it exactly backwards as to who's the pre-teen. (-:

http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/fact-
sheets/2011/04/20/driving-to-545-mpg-the-history-of-fuel-economy

http://tinyurl.com/ok4lhwb

Has a pretty good recap of how mileage has increased in the US over the last
20 years. This chart shows it graphically:

http://www.pewtrusts.org/~/media/leg...hart650jpg.jpg

And while it's true there were some cars like VW's that got good mileage
because they were so pitifully underpowered (former Karmann Ghia owner!) the
fleet average pre-1975 was in the 11mpg range.

That site also says: In response to the oil price shocks of the early
1970s, Congress passed the nation's first Corporate Average Fuel Economy
(CAFE) standards in 1975. The law called for a doubling of passenger-vehicle
efficiency-to 27.5 miles per gallon (mpg)-within 10 years. The National
Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) was also given the authority
to set a separate standard for "light trucks," which accounted for a fifth
of new vehicle sales at the time. By 2002, light trucks had surpassed cars
as the leader in light-duty vehicle sales.

So I am not sure where Mr. Blake is getting his information, but it's pretty
clear that Federal guidelines had an awful lot to do with boosting the
nation's average fuel economy and, as a wonder side benefit, sticking it to
the Oil Sheiks.

As you noted, the economy didn't come completely at the expense of
performance because there a plenty of cars that can really haul ass despite
getting mileage far superior to the cars of 20 years ago. The free market
can't do things like that - it has no mechanism to act in the public good
for the most part. The Pew article closed by noting the industry's response
to the CAFE standards:

Domestic automakers predicted that fuel economy improvements would require
a fleet primarily of subcompacts. In 1974, a Ford executive testified that
the standards could "result in a Ford product line consisting . . . of all
sub- Pinto-sized vehicles." Despite these objections, Congress passed the
law, and Ford's top seller today is its F-Series pickup.

--
Bobby G.

On 7/21/2015 9:35 PM, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 18:54:42 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

Long since lost the article, but I remember that one
of the klunkers, or more than one, showed up in Iraq,
with a bunch of guys with AK and RPG, on the back.

Dave's Plumbing, still stenciled on the drivers door.
Phone number still readable.


A true story. The truck was from a man in Texas. sold at auction and
ended up being used by some rag heads in the middle east.

Once sold, the guy had no control on a secondary market sell.


When I go to sell my clubbing baby seals van,
I'll be sure to spray paint out the wording
on the van.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 7/21/2015 10:16 PM, Roger Blake wrote:
On 2015-07-21, Robert Green wrote: so
impossible to believe such dishwashers can be created? Cars used to get
11 MPG and now they get incredible higher mileage out of the same single
gallon of gasoline. Why? Because the Feds pushed the industry to do so.

Utter and complete bilge. What are you, like 12 years old? There were
a number of compact cars available in the 1950s and 1960s capable of
delivering 20-25 miles per gallon, some of the smaller imports even higher.
I've owned some of them myself over the years.

We don't need cadre of armed thugs (which is all that government is) dictating
every aspect of our lives. I still use full-flow toilets and shower heads,
and in general refuse to follow the dictates of the federal scumbags. They're
little more than a criminal gang -- screw the *******s.


I've noted a disagrement or two with Robert Green. He
does seem a bit left of myself on a few matters.

And I do agree that the US gov has changed from servants
of the people to Our Nations Leaders. Perhaps it was
always that way, but recently ever so much more so.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 7/21/2015 10:16 PM, Roger Blake wrote:
We don't need cadre of armed thugs (which is all that government is) dictating
every aspect of our lives. I still use full-flow toilets and shower heads,
and in general refuse to follow the dictates of the federal scumbags. They're
little more than a criminal gang -- screw the *******s.


You know you're in socialist utopia when someone
comes along and insists that you need to use low
flow garden hose to fill a five gallon bucket, so
as to save water. Compared to a full flow hose, to
fill the same bucket.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 7/21/2015 10:20 PM, J Burns wrote:
On 7/20/15 10:07 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

I can believe that. Our 1.6 gpf toilets do a great job of clearing the
bowl, but I always wonder about moving things down the line to the
street. I double flush often, not from need,, but for safety.
http://www.lowes.com/cd_Can+Your+Plumbing+System+Handle+a+LowFlow+Toile t_1350913159827_


Lowes says a waste pipe should work fine if the slope is between 1/8 and
1/4 inch per foot.

If the slope isn't right, you can have a plumber fix it or use a
pressure-assisted toilet.

Amazing. In order to use the new toilets, you
have to rework the waste pipes. What an extreme
unintended consequence.

Next thing you know, we'll have babies and small
children being killed by passenger side air bags?

How about salmonella poisoning in our pure mountain
spring bottled water?

And we'll have unintended mass shootings in gun
free zones.

Drugs being sold in drug free zones?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 7/22/2015 12:05 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
The equivalent to that 25 mpg car in the 60s is now 40 mpg.

That full size Chevy Caprice that got 11 mpg is now getting 28 mpg and
is not stinking as much as the typical 50/60s cars.

My Sonata 2.0 Turbo will beat the older 10 mpg Cameros in the 1/4 mile
and still get 28 mpg.


I'm concerned about total weight, and crash worthiness.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 7/22/2015 3:55 AM, wrote:
I can believe that. Our 1.6 gpf toilets do a great job of clearing the
bowl, but I always wonder about moving things down the line to the
street. I double flush often, not from need,, but for safety.
http://www.lowes.com/cd_Can+Your+Plumbing+System+Handle+a+LowFlow+Toile t_1350913159827_

Lowes says a waste pipe should work fine if the slope is between 1/8 and
1/4 inch per foot.

If the slope isn't right, you can have a plumber fix it or use a
pressure-assisted toilet.

That still may not help. I had a low flow that wouldn't flush a #2 so
I bought a pressure assist. That makes it go away but sometimes it
does not make it all the way. I tell everyone to be sure to wash their
hands ;-)


I hope you drilled out the flow restrictor aerator,
so you have some water flow to assist the toilet?

Washing hands with soap and water is a good idea
after a bowel movement, helps reduce the spread of
disease. I met a mom one time who said someone gave
her a really good idea, to wipe her own hands with
a diaper wipe after changing a baby poopy. I mentioned
that hand washing with soap and warm water would be
better.

I'd not want to hold the kids, fix meals, and scratch
my own nose with poopy hands.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 7/20/2015 8:34 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 15:22:49 -0700, Oren wrote:

"...The recent proposal from the Department of Energy is meant to
boost dishwasher efficiency by setting stricter limits on the amount
of water each dishwasher can use, among other changes. Under the plan,
washers could use only 3.1 gallons of water for a single load.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/20/federal-dishwasher-proposals-upset-appliance-industry-conservatives/v

https://tinyurl.com/nhsoupe

This will create an industry for people who trick up dishwashers to
use enough water to get the dishes clean.


And for phosphate detergent?


--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 7/21/2015 10:38 AM, songbird wrote:
Robert Green wrote:
...
We put a man on the moon and built an A-bomb but this "clean dishes with
less water" thing has us flummoxed. At least according the appliance
manufacturers interviewed for that Fox report.

blow the crud off the plates with compressed air before
loading the dishwasher.


songbird


Or, rinse at the sink to move the toilet solids down the pipe?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

Per Stormin Mormon:
for quite a while because many of the "clunkers" were
perfectly serviceable vehicles and the regulations
called for the destruction of the engines. What kind
of complete moonbattery is that?

Call my a cynic, but if I were looking in to the politics of it, the
first thing I would look for is money: who got more of it because of the
program, what politicians voted for it, and who "supported" them.
--
Pete Cresswell

On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 22:15:46 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 7/21/2015 4:07 PM, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 05:16:57 -0400, Joe wrote:

Yes, the food particles from the dishes don't pollute the water.
A dishwasher could use 20 gallons of water and if we didn't use detergent,
the waste water would do no harm to the environment.

Hmm. The best oranges I ever ate were from gray water for a leach
filed. People have freaked out about phosphates in detergent.


The phosphates were causing good growth of green in lakes, streams, and
rivers. The secondary actions are the problem, not in the DW

_Phosphorus cycling and the ocean's hidden fertilizer_

http://www.sciencecodex.com/revealing_the_oceans_hidden_fertilizer-157203

At night you can see fish darting through the water and in boat prop-
wash. IMO the greenies were out to save the world from phosphates.
Gee

"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message

stuff snipped

Actually no, what with waiting times, lousy care, etc, I think
veterans deserve much better than the services the VA provides. You
been paying ANY attention to the news? (And from personal experience
with the VA, I can tell you some of this runs at least from the mid-80s
forward.

And before the VA it was going on throughout the whole world.

It's the same old story: When the war is over the veterans are forgotten.
Probably no Americans in recent memory got worse treatment that the
Confederate vets because the South was so impoverished after the war. I
remember seeing the museum curator they often have on "Pawn Stars" talking
about how to tell a Confederate wooden leg from the much more elaborate
prosthetics used for Northern vets.

I also seem to remember something about the same being true in ancient
Europe. It's easy to forget how much the soldiers sacrificed once the war
is over. No one had it tougher than these vets:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kleidion

Skylitzes records that Basil completely routed the Bulgarian army and took
15,000 prisoners (14,000 according to Kekaumenos). Modern historians
however, such as Vasil Zlatarski, claim that these numbers are exaggerated.
The 14th century Bulgarian translation of the Manasses Chronicle numbers the
prisoners at 8,000. Basil divided the prisoners into groups of 100 men,
blinded 99 men in each group and left one man in each with one eye so that
he could lead the others home - this was done in retaliation for the death
of Botaneiates, who was Basil's favourite general and advisor, and also to
crush the Bulgarian morale. Another possible reason was that, in Byzantine
eyes, the Bulgarians were rebels against their authority, and blinding was
the usual punishment meted out to rebels. For this action, Basil gained the
nickname Boulgaroktonos (Greek: ??????????????), "the Bulgar-slayer". Samuel
died of a heart attack on October 6, 1014, reportedly due to seeing his
soldiers blinded.

While the wikipedia article doesn't mention it, the soldiers fared very
poorly when they returned home. Even VA care at its worst would have looked
good to them.

--
Bobby G.

On 7/20/2015 5:22 PM, Oren wrote:
"...The recent proposal from the Department of Energy is meant to
boost dishwasher efficiency by setting stricter limits on the amount
of water each dishwasher can use, among other changes. Under the plan,
washers could use only 3.1 gallons of water for a single load.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/20/federal-dishwasher-proposals-upset-appliance-industry-conservatives/v

https://tinyurl.com/nhsoupe


So? Commercial dishwashers already meet that standard. Yes, scaredy
cats, the restaurants you eat at wash their plates in machines using
less water than your dishwasher at home. And yet they and you have
survived the experience.

Plus, notice the word "proposal". Look up the definition. As the DOE
itself notes:

"Based on consideration of the public comments DOE receives in
response to this notice and related information collected and analyzed
during the course of this rulemaking effort, DOE may adopt energy
efficiency levels presented in this notice that are either higher or
lower than the proposed standards, or some combination of level(s)
that incorporate the proposed standards in part."

I know you fraidy cats just love to find more things to get yourselves
worked up over, but this is a long ways from being settled. Plus, your
Depression-era and earlier ancestors would like to smack you. They
were all about saving. They'd be ashamed that you treat wastefulness
as a virtue.

On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 13:13:02 -0500, Moe DeLoughan
wrote:

On 7/20/2015 5:22 PM, Oren wrote:
"...The recent proposal from the Department of Energy is meant to
boost dishwasher efficiency by setting stricter limits on the amount
of water each dishwasher can use, among other changes. Under the plan,
washers could use only 3.1 gallons of water for a single load.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/20/federal-dishwasher-proposals-upset-appliance-industry-conservatives/v

https://tinyurl.com/nhsoupe


So? Commercial dishwashers already meet that standard. Yes, scaredy
cats, the restaurants you eat at wash their plates in machines using
less water than your dishwasher at home. And yet they and you have
survived the experience.

Plus, notice the word "proposal". Look up the definition. As the DOE
itself notes:

"Based on consideration of the public comments DOE receives in
response to this notice and related information collected and analyzed
during the course of this rulemaking effort, DOE may adopt energy
efficiency levels presented in this notice that are either higher or
lower than the proposed standards, or some combination of level(s)
that incorporate the proposed standards in part."

I know you fraidy cats just love to find more things to get yourselves
worked up over, but this is a long ways from being settled. Plus, your
Depression-era and earlier ancestors would like to smack you. They
were all about saving. They'd be ashamed that you treat wastefulness
as a virtue.

YAWN

On 7/21/15 9:17 PM, Robert Green wrote:
"songbird" wrote in message
...
Robert Green wrote:
...
We put a man on the moon and built an A-bomb but this "clean dishes with
less water" thing has us flummoxed. At least according the appliance
manufacturers interviewed for that Fox report.

blow the crud off the plates with compressed air before
loading the dishwasher.

And have a kitchen wall covered with atomized linguini? (0-: I once tried
to clear an old, dirty condensate line in a refrigerator and blew a huge
sneeze of dirty black water out of the bottom of the unit and onto the floor
and wall.

I've decided to hang a toilet paper roll in the kitchen.

Grease is a problem washing dishes. The more of it you need to emulsify,
the more detergent you need. After wiping the greasy stove top, washing
the grease out of the dish cloth was a hassle. Besides, grease seemed to
be a big reason I often had to use a plunger to get my kitchen drain up
to speed.

I finally got smart and began running to the bathroom for toilet paper.
If I first removed most of the grease from the stove with toilet paper,
the dish cloth was easy to clean.

A paper towel costs 150 times more than a sheet of toilet paper. It's
harder to rip off the roll with one hand, and paper towels fill a waste
basket in a hurry.

Washing something under the faucet can be more convenient than using a
dishwasher, but dishwashing detergent makes it less convenient and
wastes water. You have to distribute the detergent with a wet cloth, and
then it's hard to rinse. If you don't get it all off, you may suffer
intestinal distress.

The 20 Mule Team company recommends Boraxo instead of dishwashing
detergent. They recommend 2 tablespoons in a quart of hot water (It
dissolves well at 130 F and above.). They recommend letting it cool and
pouring it into an empty detergent bottle.

Instead, I put it in a 1-quart Solo sprayer. It holds pressure
indefinitely and sits with the nozzle over the sink. If my hands are
messy, it's easy to press the paddle trigger with the side of my hand.
The nozzle spreads the solution as a mist.

The clarity of glasses and squeakiness of plates persuaded me that for
most items, it's easier and more effective than detergent. It rinses so
much better than detergent that I don't even wait for hot water to come
from the faucet. It also keeps my dish cloth from smelling. Microbes
hate it, but for humans it's about as toxic as table salt.

The shortcoming is that it won't emulsify much grease. If I've been
eating fried chicken, I may have to spray and rinse my fingers several
times. I added a teaspoon of detergent per quart of solution. Even that
little bit of detergent made it harder to rinse off. So when an item has
lots of grease, like my greasy fingers, I'll wipe with toilet paper,
then wash with a borax spray.

I'm going to find me a pecan stick so I can use a couple of pieces of
wire to hang a toilet paper roll. Then I'll have a state-of-the-art
toilet-paper-and-borax kitchen.

On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 11:20:05 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 13:13:02 -0500, Moe DeLoughan
wrote:

On 7/20/2015 5:22 PM, Oren wrote:
"...The recent proposal from the Department of Energy is meant to
boost dishwasher efficiency by setting stricter limits on the amount
of water each dishwasher can use, among other changes. Under the plan,
washers could use only 3.1 gallons of water for a single load.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/20/federal-dishwasher-proposals-upset-appliance-industry-conservatives/v

https://tinyurl.com/nhsoupe



Hey Moe! I'm baaaack.

So? Commercial dishwashers already meet that standard. Yes, scaredy
cats, the restaurants you eat at wash their plates in machines using
less water than your dishwasher at home. And yet they and you have
survived the experience.


So?

Plus, notice the word "proposal". Look up the definition. As the DOE
itself notes:

Plus, "notice" the subject of discussion.

"Based on consideration of the public comments DOE receives in
response to this notice and related information collected and analyzed
during the course of this rulemaking effort, DOE may adopt energy
efficiency levels presented in this notice that are either higher or
lower than the proposed standards, or some combination of level(s)
that incorporate the proposed standards in part."

And now what?

I know you fraidy cats just love to find more things to get yourselves
worked up over, but this is a long ways from being settled. Plus, your
Depression-era and earlier ancestors would like to smack you. They
were all about saving. They'd be ashamed that you treat wastefulness
as a virtue.


What the **** do you know about me? About my efforts to conserve
energy? Tell the class where I got "worked up". Take as much space as
you need. Tell the class how my ancestors would treat me. Maybe you
know something the class doesn't, about my "wastefulness". Take as
much space as you need.

You lib's love to make stuff up, attack the messenger of an article,
spin it into a personal attack about me or others. I don't give two
squats about your opinion of me. Get it?

Do you always need government making decisions for you? Can't you
live life without directions from the government? Spit!

YAWN

Smack. Tell Larry and Curley hello for me.

On 7/22/15 8:13 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 7/21/2015 10:20 PM, J Burns wrote:
On 7/20/15 10:07 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

I can believe that. Our 1.6 gpf toilets do a great job of clearing the
bowl, but I always wonder about moving things down the line to the
street. I double flush often, not from need,, but for safety.
http://www.lowes.com/cd_Can+Your+Plumbing+System+Handle+a+LowFlow+Toile t_1350913159827_



Lowes says a waste pipe should work fine if the slope is between 1/8 and
1/4 inch per foot.

If the slope isn't right, you can have a plumber fix it or use a
pressure-assisted toilet.

Amazing. In order to use the new toilets, you
have to rework the waste pipes. What an extreme
unintended consequence.


The Lowes article gave me the impression that the slope for any waste
pipe is supposed to be 1/8 to 1/4 inch per foot, but an old house may
have settled or may have been plumbed wrong. One of these days, I think
I'll check my slope.

On 7/22/2015 8:10 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 7/21/2015 10:16 PM, Roger Blake wrote:
We don't need cadre of armed thugs (which is all that government is) dictating
every aspect of our lives. I still use full-flow toilets and shower heads,
and in general refuse to follow the dictates of the federal scumbags. They're
little more than a criminal gang -- screw the *******s.


You know you're in socialist utopia when someone
comes along and insists that you need to use low
flow garden hose to fill a five gallon bucket, so
as to save water. Compared to a full flow hose, to
fill the same bucket.


I have the "pleasure" of driving by a congressman's house on my way to work.
Often his underground sprinklers are dumping a bazillion GPM on his lawn.
Good thing they mandated low-flow shower heads for us "little people" to use.

On 7/22/15 3:55 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 22:20:03 -0400, J Burns
wrote:

On 7/20/15 10:07 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/20/2015 7:52 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:


I remember reading something about the city of San Francisco finding
it necessary to use thousands of gallons of toxic chemicals to flush
their sewer systems because of the widespread adoption of water saving
toilets and plumbing fixtures not putting enough water into the sewer
system to flush queer poop down the line to the sewage treatment
plant. The law of unintended results strikes La La Land again and
again. O_o

[8~{} Uncle Sewer Monster


I can believe that. Our 1.6 gpf toilets do a great job of clearing the
bowl, but I always wonder about moving things down the line to the
street. I double flush often, not from need,, but for safety.
http://www.lowes.com/cd_Can+Your+Plumbing+System+Handle+a+LowFlow+Toile t_1350913159827_

Lowes says a waste pipe should work fine if the slope is between 1/8 and
1/4 inch per foot.

If the slope isn't right, you can have a plumber fix it or use a
pressure-assisted toilet.

That still may not help. I had a low flow that wouldn't flush a #2 so
I bought a pressure assist. That makes it go away but sometimes it
does not make it all the way. I tell everyone to be sure to wash their
hands ;-)

Mine almost always flushes fine, leaving me to wonder why it doesn't
always. My latest theory is that occasionally I drink too much milk.
Dairy products can inhibit intestinal contractions, causing bigger and
perhaps harder poops.

On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 7:18:39 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 7/22/2015 3:55 AM, wrote:
I can believe that. Our 1.6 gpf toilets do a great job of clearing the
bowl, but I always wonder about moving things down the line to the
street. I double flush often, not from need,, but for safety.
http://www.lowes.com/cd_Can+Your+Plumbing+System+Handle+a+LowFlow+Toile t_1350913159827_

Lowes says a waste pipe should work fine if the slope is between 1/8 and
1/4 inch per foot.

If the slope isn't right, you can have a plumber fix it or use a
pressure-assisted toilet.

That still may not help. I had a low flow that wouldn't flush a #2 so
I bought a pressure assist. That makes it go away but sometimes it
does not make it all the way. I tell everyone to be sure to wash their
hands ;-)


I hope you drilled out the flow restrictor aerator,
so you have some water flow to assist the toilet?

Washing hands with soap and water is a good idea
after a bowel movement, helps reduce the spread of
disease. I met a mom one time who said someone gave
her a really good idea, to wipe her own hands with
a diaper wipe after changing a baby poopy. I mentioned
that hand washing with soap and warm water would be
better.

I'd not want to hold the kids, fix meals, and scratch
my own nose with poopy hands.

--

When me or my brother traveled, we would take our own shower heads and the tools to change them. I'd remove the flow restricted motel shower head set it aside, install my own, get a shower then reinstall the motel's shower head. I suppose I'm weird because I like to get clean not just wet. O_o

[8~{} Uncle Dirty Monster

On 7/22/2015 4:20 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 7:18:39 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 7/22/2015 3:55 AM, wrote:
I can believe that. Our 1.6 gpf toilets do a great job of clearing the
bowl, but I always wonder about moving things down the line to the
street. I double flush often, not from need,, but for safety.
http://www.lowes.com/cd_Can+Your+Plumbing+System+Handle+a+LowFlow+Toile t_1350913159827_

Lowes says a waste pipe should work fine if the slope is between 1/8 and
1/4 inch per foot.

If the slope isn't right, you can have a plumber fix it or use a
pressure-assisted toilet.

That still may not help. I had a low flow that wouldn't flush a #2 so
I bought a pressure assist. That makes it go away but sometimes it
does not make it all the way. I tell everyone to be sure to wash their
hands ;-)


I hope you drilled out the flow restrictor aerator,
so you have some water flow to assist the toilet?

Washing hands with soap and water is a good idea
after a bowel movement, helps reduce the spread of
disease. I met a mom one time who said someone gave
her a really good idea, to wipe her own hands with
a diaper wipe after changing a baby poopy. I mentioned
that hand washing with soap and warm water would be
better.

I'd not want to hold the kids, fix meals, and scratch
my own nose with poopy hands.

--

When me or my brother traveled, we would take our own shower heads and the tools to change them. I'd remove the flow restricted motel shower head set it aside, install my own, get a shower then reinstall the motel's shower head. I suppose I'm weird because I like to get clean not just wet. O_o

[8~{} Uncle Dirty Monster


gee ... I'll have to remember that one next time I travel. I could even
do that, I think.

--
Maggie

On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 03:51:46 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 18:35:03 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 18:54:42 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

Long since lost the article, but I remember that one
of the klunkers, or more than one, showed up in Iraq,
with a bunch of guys with AK and RPG, on the back.

Dave's Plumbing, still stenciled on the drivers door.
Phone number still readable.


A true story. The truck was from a man in Texas. sold at auction and
ended up being used by some rag heads in the middle east.

Once sold, the guy had no control on a secondary market sell.

It was not a Klunker.

I said the truck was sold at auction. Nothing to do with clunkers.

On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 17:01:25 -0400, Jack Kittoff
wrote:

I have the "pleasure" of driving by a congressman's house on my way to work.
Often his underground sprinklers are dumping a bazillion GPM on his lawn.
Good thing they mandated low-flow shower heads for us "little people" to use.

I had the pleasure to have a congressman (ABSCAM) clean pubic hairs
from prison toilets. Then he could make phone calls and tell his
family how he loved his job.

On 7/22/2015 5:20 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 7:18:39 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:

I'd not want to hold the kids, fix meals, and scratch
my own nose with poopy hands.

--

When me or my brother traveled, we would take our own
shower heads and the tools to change them. I'd remove
the flow restricted motel shower head set it aside,
install my own, get a shower then reinstall the motel's
shower head. I suppose I'm weird because I like to get
clean not just wet. O_o

[8~{} Uncle Dirty Monster


I wish to formally apologize for all the times I
publically called you a stinky doo doo head on
this forum, my squeaky clean friend.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..