Appliance industry warns....
 

"...The recent proposal from the Department of Energy is meant to
boost dishwasher efficiency by setting stricter limits on the amount
of water each dishwasher can use, among other changes. Under the plan,
washers could use only 3.1 gallons of water for a single load.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/20/federal-dishwasher-proposals-upset-appliance-industry-conservatives/v

https://tinyurl.com/nhsoupe

Appliance industry warns....
 

On Monday, July 20, 2015 at 5:22:57 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
"...The recent proposal from the Department of Energy is meant to
boost dishwasher efficiency by setting stricter limits on the amount
of water each dishwasher can use, among other changes. Under the plan,
washers could use only 3.1 gallons of water for a single load.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/20/federal-dishwasher-proposals-upset-appliance-industry-conservatives/v

https://tinyurl.com/nhsoupe

I remember reading something about the city of San Francisco finding it necessary to use thousands of gallons of toxic chemicals to flush their sewer systems because of the widespread adoption of water saving toilets and plumbing fixtures not putting enough water into the sewer system to flush queer poop down the line to the sewage treatment plant. The law of unintended results strikes La La Land again and again. O_o

[8~{} Uncle Sewer Monster

Appliance industry warns....
 

On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 15:22:49 -0700, Oren wrote:

"...The recent proposal from the Department of Energy is meant to
boost dishwasher efficiency by setting stricter limits on the amount
of water each dishwasher can use, among other changes. Under the plan,
washers could use only 3.1 gallons of water for a single load.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/20/federal-dishwasher-proposals-upset-appliance-industry-conservatives/v

https://tinyurl.com/nhsoupe

The department of energy is just one of numerous governmental agencies
that have long ago out lived their usefulness. That's assuming they
served a purpose to begin with. The market is more than capable of
determining what characteristics are desirable for a given product.

Don't even get me started on how useful the EPA, Dept of Labor, Dept
of education and Dept of HUD are. Not to mention the VA. Now you
really got me ****ed off!

Thanks, Oren!

Appliance industry warns....
 

On 7/20/2015 6:22 PM, Oren wrote:
"...The recent proposal from the Department of Energy is meant to
boost dishwasher efficiency by setting stricter limits on the amount
of water each dishwasher can use, among other changes. Under the plan,
washers could use only 3.1 gallons of water for a single load.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/20/federal-dishwasher-proposals-upset-appliance-industry-conservatives/v

https://tinyurl.com/nhsoupe


First they came for the toilets,
and I didn't speak up, because I wasn't a toilet.

Then they came for the shower heads,
and I didn't speak up because I
wasn't a shower head.

Then they came for the faucet aerators,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a facuet aerator.

Then they came for the dishwashers,
and there was no one left to speak up for me.

--
..
Christopher A. Niemoller
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

Appliance industry warns....
 

On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 19:06:25 -0500, Gordon Shumway
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 15:22:49 -0700, Oren wrote:

"...The recent proposal from the Department of Energy is meant to
boost dishwasher efficiency by setting stricter limits on the amount
of water each dishwasher can use, among other changes. Under the plan,
washers could use only 3.1 gallons of water for a single load.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/20/federal-dishwasher-proposals-upset-appliance-industry-conservatives/v

https://tinyurl.com/nhsoupe

The department of energy is just one of numerous governmental agencies
that have long ago out lived their usefulness. That's assuming they
served a purpose to begin with. The market is more than capable of
determining what characteristics are desirable for a given product.

Don't even get me started on how useful the EPA, Dept of Labor, Dept
of education and Dept of HUD are. Not to mention the VA. Now you
really got me ****ed off!

Thanks, Oren!

Note that the DOE Secretary is/has negotiated the Iran nuke deal, if
that makes you feel better.

Dr. Ernest Moniz - Secretary of Energy needs a hair cut.

http://energy.gov/contributors/dr-ernest-moniz

I'm ashamed of our government.

Appliance industry warns....
 

On 7/20/15 6:22 PM, Oren wrote:
"...The recent proposal from the Department of Energy is meant to
boost dishwasher efficiency by setting stricter limits on the amount
of water each dishwasher can use, among other changes. Under the plan,
washers could use only 3.1 gallons of water for a single load.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/20/federal-dishwasher-proposals-upset-appliance-industry-conservatives/v

https://tinyurl.com/nhsoupe

US News ran the story four months ago. It's a proposal, open to public
comment.

AFAIK, the DOE doesn't outlaw appliances. They issue the Energy Star,
to help manufacturers market efficient devices. It helped bring down
water use from 16 gallons per load in 1994 to 6 gallons now.

Appliance industry warns....
 

On 7/20/2015 7:52 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:


I remember reading something about the city of San Francisco finding it necessary to use thousands of gallons of toxic chemicals to flush their sewer systems because of the widespread adoption of water saving toilets and plumbing fixtures not putting enough water into the sewer system to flush queer poop down the line to the sewage treatment plant. The law of unintended results strikes La La Land again and again. O_o

[8~{} Uncle Sewer Monster


I can believe that. Our 1.6 gpf toilets do a great job of clearing the
bowl, but I always wonder about moving things down the line to the
street. I double flush often, not from need,, but for safety.

Appliance industry warns....
 

Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 15:22:49 -0700, Oren wrote:

"...The recent proposal from the Department of Energy is meant to
boost dishwasher efficiency by setting stricter limits on the amount
of water each dishwasher can use, among other changes. Under the
plan, washers could use only 3.1 gallons of water for a single load.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/20/federal-dishwasher-proposals-upset-appliance-industry-conservatives/v

https://tinyurl.com/nhsoupe

The department of energy is just one of numerous governmental agencies
that have long ago out lived their usefulness. That's assuming they
served a purpose to begin with. The market is more than capable of
determining what characteristics are desirable for a given product.

Don't even get me started on how useful the EPA, Dept of Labor, Dept
of education and Dept of HUD are. Not to mention the VA. Now you
really got me ****ed off!

Thanks, Oren!

And what's your problem with the VA ? You don't believe veterans deserve the
services they provide ?
I mean , say a guy got exposed to Agent Orange while serving in Vietnam ,
you don't think his health problems from that should be treated ? Or the guy
that got a leg and an arm blown off by an IED in Iraq should bear his own
health care costs ?
--
Snag

Appliance industry warns....
 

On Monday, July 20, 2015 at 9:07:35 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/20/2015 7:52 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:


I remember reading something about the city of San Francisco finding it necessary to use thousands of gallons of toxic chemicals to flush their sewer systems because of the widespread adoption of water saving toilets and plumbing fixtures not putting enough water into the sewer system to flush queer poop down the line to the sewage treatment plant. The law of unintended results strikes La La Land again and again. O_o

[8~{} Uncle Sewer Monster


I can believe that. Our 1.6 gpf toilets do a great job of clearing the
bowl, but I always wonder about moving things down the line to the
street. I double flush often, not from need,, but for safety.

I often clog those low flow toilets because the load of ready mix I drop is often so large the darn toilet can't handle it. I've never had that problem with an old standard toilets. Many times I've proved that the human intestinal tract is indeed 30 feet long. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Poop Monster

Appliance industry warns....
 

Uncle Monster wrote:
On Monday, July 20, 2015 at 9:07:35 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/20/2015 7:52 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:


I remember reading something about the city of San Francisco
finding it necessary to use thousands of gallons of toxic chemicals
to flush their sewer systems because of the widespread adoption of
water saving toilets and plumbing fixtures not putting enough water
into the sewer system to flush queer poop down the line to the
sewage treatment plant. The law of unintended results strikes La La
Land again and again. O_o

[8~{} Uncle Sewer Monster


I can believe that. Our 1.6 gpf toilets do a great job of clearing
the bowl, but I always wonder about moving things down the line to
the street. I double flush often, not from need,, but for safety.

I often clog those low flow toilets because the load of ready mix I
drop is often so large the darn toilet can't handle it. I've never
had that problem with an old standard toilets. Many times I've proved
that the human intestinal tract is indeed 30 feet long. ^_^


My old high volume toilet plugged frequently, but my 1.6g replacement has only
plugged a couple times in the last 6 years. I'm very happy with the switch.

Appliance industry warns....
 

Terry Coombs wrote:
Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 15:22:49 -0700, Oren wrote:

"...The recent proposal from the Department of Energy is meant to
boost dishwasher efficiency by setting stricter limits on the amount
of water each dishwasher can use, among other changes. Under the
plan, washers could use only 3.1 gallons of water for a single load.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/20/federal-dishwasher-proposals-upset-appliance-industry-conservatives/v

https://tinyurl.com/nhsoupe

The department of energy is just one of numerous governmental
agencies that have long ago out lived their usefulness. That's
assuming they served a purpose to begin with. The market is more
than capable of determining what characteristics are desirable for a
given product. Don't even get me started on how useful the EPA, Dept of
Labor, Dept
of education and Dept of HUD are. Not to mention the VA. Now you
really got me ****ed off!

Thanks, Oren!

And what's your problem with the VA ? You don't believe veterans
deserve the services they provide ?
I mean , say a guy got exposed to Agent Orange while serving in
Vietnam , you don't think his health problems from that should be
treated ? Or the guy that got a leg and an arm blown off by an IED in
Iraq should bear his own health care costs ?

Right wing government haters HATE that some of us feel the US owes it to their
vets to fully finance the VA to meet the demands from Bush's wars.

Appliance industry warns....
 

On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 22:07:31 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 7/20/2015 7:52 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:


I remember reading something about the city of San Francisco finding it necessary to use thousands of gallons of toxic chemicals to flush their sewer systems because of the widespread adoption of water saving toilets and plumbing fixtures not putting enough water into the sewer system to flush queer poop down the line to the sewage treatment plant. The law of unintended results strikes La La Land again and again. O_o

[8~{} Uncle Sewer Monster


I can believe that. Our 1.6 gpf toilets do a great job of clearing the
bowl, but I always wonder about moving things down the line to the
street. I double flush often, not from need,, but for safety.

I've often wondered how much water is used by people rinsing out stuff
to be recycled. Water is in short supply in many areas and the amount
of water used to clean that trash must be huge.

Appliance industry warns....
 

On Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 1:13:25 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 21:57:41 -0700, Ashton Crusher
wrote:

I've often wondered how much water is used by people rinsing out stuff
to be recycled. Water is in short supply in many areas and the amount
of water used to clean that trash must be huge.

Recycling is almost always an environmental loser. It is just a feel
good program. Alumiinum makes sense as do most metals, simply because
of the cost to refine it from ore Paper and plastic only make sense
if the reprocessing plant is fairly close. Where I am, it makes a
whole lot more sense to burn these in our waste to energy plant than
to put it on a truck and ship it 1000 miles to the recycling plant.
The stuff in there will burn too so why wash it?
Unfortunately there was a news story about it and now they are
trucking a token amount away, just to pacify the ill informed.

Penn & Teller did an episode of "Bull****" on the subject of recycling. It was a mistake to elect people from La La Land into public office. o_O

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh-KDa_Jmok

[8~{} Uncle Trash Monster

Appliance industry warns....
 

On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 15:22:49 -0700, Oren wrote:

"...The recent proposal from the Department of Energy is meant to
boost dishwasher efficiency by setting stricter limits on the amount
of water each dishwasher can use, among other changes. Under the plan,
washers could use only 3.1 gallons of water for a single load.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/20/federal-dishwasher-proposals-upset-appliance-industry-conservatives/v

https://tinyurl.com/nhsoupe

Yes, the food particles from the dishes don't pollute the water.
A dishwasher could use 20 gallons of water and if we didn't use detergent,
the waste water would do no harm to the environment.

The real issue is the detergent pollution but who would dare to take on P&G?

Appliance industry warns....
 

Oren wrote:
"...The recent proposal from the Department of Energy is meant to
boost dishwasher efficiency by setting stricter limits on the amount
of water each dishwasher can use, among other changes. Under the plan,
washers could use only 3.1 gallons of water for a single load.

It always gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling knowing that the feds are busy
protecting me from wasteful, avaricious capitalists.

Appliance industry warns....
 

On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 22:07:31 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote
in


I can believe that. Our 1.6 gpf toilets do a great job of clearing the
bowl, but I always wonder about moving things down the line to the
street. I double flush often, not from need,, but for safety.

+1
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

Appliance industry warns....
 

Bob F wrote:
Terry Coombs wrote:
Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 15:22:49 -0700, Oren wrote:

"...The recent proposal from the Department of Energy is meant to
boost dishwasher efficiency by setting stricter limits on the
amount of water each dishwasher can use, among other changes.
Under the plan, washers could use only 3.1 gallons of water for a
single load.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/20/federal-dishwasher-proposals-upset-appliance-industry-conservatives/v

https://tinyurl.com/nhsoupe

The department of energy is just one of numerous governmental
agencies that have long ago out lived their usefulness. That's
assuming they served a purpose to begin with. The market is more
than capable of determining what characteristics are desirable for a
given product. Don't even get me started on how useful the EPA,
Dept of Labor, Dept
of education and Dept of HUD are. Not to mention the VA. Now you
really got me ****ed off!

Thanks, Oren!

And what's your problem with the VA ? You don't believe veterans
deserve the services they provide ?
I mean , say a guy got exposed to Agent Orange while serving in
Vietnam , you don't think his health problems from that should be
treated ? Or the guy that got a leg and an arm blown off by an IED in
Iraq should bear his own health care costs ?

Right wing government haters HATE that some of us feel the US owes it
to their vets to fully finance the VA to meet the demands from Bush's
wars.

Well , Bob , I'm a hell of a lot closer to the right than left , and I
sure don't hate that ... and I think you'll find a lot more vets from the
Vietnam era than the later "wars" . While I think there's a lot of shrinking
needed in our government , I don't think that's an area that it's needful
.... welfare , now that's another story , along with some of the engorged
alphabet agencies .

--
Snag

Appliance industry warns....
 

In article ,
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 15:22:49 -0700, Oren wrote:

"...The recent proposal from the Department of Energy is meant to
boost dishwasher efficiency by setting stricter limits on the amount
of water each dishwasher can use, among other changes. Under the plan,
washers could use only 3.1 gallons of water for a single load.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015...proposals-upse
t-appliance-industry-conservatives/v

https://tinyurl.com/nhsoupe

This will create an industry for people who trick up dishwashers to
use enough water to get the dishes clean.

Yeah, espcially since it is already so easy to get dishes clean with
EPA-mandated changes in the dishwasher soaps.
--
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital."
-- Aaron Levenstein

Appliance industry warns....
 

In article ,
"Terry Coombs" wrote:

And what's your problem with the VA ? You don't believe veterans deserve the
services they provide ?
Actually no, what with waiting times, lousy care, etc, I think
veterans deserve much better than the services the VA provides. You
been paying ANY attention to the news? (And from personal experience
with the VA, I can tell you some of this runs at least from the mid-80s
forward.
--
³Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital.²
‹ Aaron Levenstein

Appliance industry warns....
 

products should be made to be DURABLE rather than cheap...... mandating a long life, rather than being recycled.

the excellent example are cordless tools, the feds should require easy to replace cells in the battery pack

Appliance industry warns....
 

Terry Coombs wrote: "- show quoted text -
And what's your problem with the VA ? You don't believe veterans deserve the
services they provide ?
I mean , say a guy got exposed to Agent Orange while serving in Vietnam ,
you don't think his health problems from that should be treated ? Or the guy
that got a leg and an arm blown off by an IED in Iraq should bear his own
health care costs ?
--
Snag "


Of COURSE they do.

They also deserve to NOT be sent places, due to bad policy
in Washington, where our intervention is neither needed
nor wanted in the FIRST PLACE.

Appliance industry warns....
 

Per Ashton Crusher:
I've often wondered how much water is used by people rinsing out stuff
to be recycled. Water is in short supply in many areas and the amount
of water used to clean that trash must be huge.

In all the discussions, press releases, documentaries, and other stuff I
have seen/heard/read nobody has addressed the difference in water
supplies.

If Person A is getting their water from some aquifer that was layed down
a bazillion years ago, is not getting replenished, and is slowly being
drained by use... that's one thing, and maybe conservation measures
above-and-beyond pricing could be appropriate.

But if Person B is getting their water from a major river running
through an urban area - like the Delaware River feeds Philadelphia - who
cares how much water they use? Worst-case, "wasting" water could be
construed as wasting energy in that the purification plants have to work
more.... best case, "wasting" water could be construed as helping out
with cleaning up a dirty river.

This is from somebody unencumbered by any real knowledge... maybe
somebody who knows can comment.
--
Pete Cresswell

Appliance industry warns....
 

"J Burns" wrote in message news:mok6uk$dr5

stuff snipped

AFAIK, the DOE doesn't outlaw appliances. They issue the Energy Star,
to help manufacturers market efficient devices. It helped bring down
water use from 16 gallons per load in 1994 to 6 gallons now.

We put a man on the moon and built an A-bomb but this "clean dishes with
less water" thing has us flummoxed. At least according the appliance
manufacturers interviewed for that Fox report.

--
Bobby G.

Appliance industry warns....
 

On 7/21/2015 8:43 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:


This will create an industry for people who trick up dishwashers to
use enough water to get the dishes clean.

Yeah, espcially since it is already so easy to get dishes clean with
EPA-mandated changes in the dishwasher soaps.


Cascade Platinum. When the changed the formula for the old Cascade jel,
the dishes came out crappy. We have an energy efficient KitchenAid and
us Platinum and the dishes are amazingly clean. Best I've used in many
years.

Appliance industry warns....
 

On 2015-07-21, Robert Green wrote:

We put a man on the moon and built an A-bomb but this "clean dishes with
less water" thing has us flummoxed.

Ppl prolly recall the "reduced flow" toities, the one's that require
2-3 flushes to actually dispose of load, while simultaneously spraying
fecal/whiz water all overthe bathroom. Or maybe those "stink pot"
front loader water-saving washers. The one's that leave old rinse
water in the drum. Boy, that's what I want! A water-saving dish
washer that uses more water than claimed and/or saves the old wash
water. Ya' sure ...you betchya!

At least according the appliance manufacturers interviewed for that
Fox report.

Ooh, Fox! That's where I go for accurate news reporting. (not) ;)

nb

Appliance industry warns....
 

Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
"Terry Coombs" wrote:

And what's your problem with the VA ? You don't believe veterans
deserve the services they provide ?
Actually no, what with waiting times, lousy care, etc, I think
veterans deserve much better than the services the VA provides. You
been paying ANY attention to the news? (And from personal experience
with the VA, I can tell you some of this runs at least from the
mid-80s forward.

I suspect the problems might be regional , because I've had nothing but
positive experiences with my VA health care . I go in tomorrow for my annual
physical , the appointment was made less than 2 weeks ago . The staff at the
Mountain Home Ar. center is VERY professional , they treat the patients with
respect , and the care is top notch . We also have a program now that if
you're more than 40 miles from a VA facility or can't get an appointment
within 30 days you can see a local provider . We're still looking for a doc
we like here , but it's nice to know I don't have to get hauled a hundred
miles to Little Rock if I have a hospital-type emergency . Or a cold for
that matter ...

--
Snag

Appliance industry warns....
 

Appliance industry warns....
 

Robert Green wrote:
....
We put a man on the moon and built an A-bomb but this "clean dishes with
less water" thing has us flummoxed. At least according the appliance
manufacturers interviewed for that Fox report.

blow the crud off the plates with compressed air before
loading the dishwasher.


songbird

Appliance industry warns....
 

wrote in message
...

This will create an industry for people who trick up dishwashers to
use enough water to get the dishes clean.

Or it could end up with dishwashers that can actually clean dishes with that
little water. Or have people lost their faith in modern technology? Is it
so impossible to believe such dishwashers can be created? Cars used to get
11 MPG and now they get incredible higher mileage out of the same single
gallon of gasoline. Why? Because the Feds pushed the industry to do so.
The free market resisted every step of the way. It falls completely flat
when it comes to doing things that make things better for everyone. Case in
point: Set top cable boxes. The industry didn't care about making them
green because someone else paid for the electricity to run them. New rules
will make them care and they'll howl, too. For a while, anyway and the US
may save enough electricity in the aggregate to retire more than one
coal-fired plant.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...617-story.html

The 224 million cable boxes across the nation together consume as much
electricity as produced by four giant nuclear reactors, running around the
clock. . . ."It is a classic case of market failure," said Andrew
McAllister, a member of the California Energy Commission. "The consumers
have zero information and zero control over the devices they get."

It's actually a fascinating study in free market failures because people
often have no choice (or even information) about how they could save money.

Similarly, tenants in millions of apartments pay for electricity, but
landlords decide whether they get efficient appliances, modern air
conditioning systems and good building insulation.

Remember how the auto industry screamed about how pollution controls were
going to bankrupt the industry and make cars unaffordable? That never
happened, but the air did get cleaner as the Feds mandated higher MPG and
lower emissions.

Eventually, after all the weeping and gnashing of teeth, the auto industry
(especially the foreign makers like Honda) finally started building cleaner
cars that resulted in healthier outcomes and cleaner air for everyone.

The MPG standards have played a very significant role in reducing our
dependence on oil sources controlled by religious fanatics, and that's a
very good thing.

The water restrictions come at in important time when many of the country's
(actually the world's) aquifiers are being drained to previously unheard of
levels.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...9-groundwater-
california-drought-aquifers-hidden-crisis/

Areas where wells used to find water at 300 now require drilling to two or
three times that depth. We're in the midst of a serious *world* water
crisis. Clean water is a precious resource that's becoming more precious
every day. Why waste it if technology can provide a better solution?

If you believe some sci fi writers from when I was kid, we would at least
have sonic dishwashers that used NO water or self-cleaning dishes.

Despite all the groaning about the alleged horrors of low-volume toilets,
they have become the norm. With modern low-volume toilets, the worst that
*usually* happens is you may occasionally have to flush twice. I like
seeing both my water bill and my electric bill shrink. I bought a whole
bunch of LED bulbs and expect it to shrink further. Almost all my 23W
nVision CFLs now take too long to warm up to be useful in most cases.

I wonder if we will ever see truly "cold light" that emits all energy in the
visible spectrum. We're slowly getting there, it seems.

The problem I have is that the price point sweet spot seems to be for 60W
equivalent LEDs and they are just too dim for these old eyes. I got a bunch
of socket splitters and they've allowed me to double up in some fixtures but
fixtures that were designed to use two LEDs would be better - it would give
an equivalence of slight over 100W still for less than a 100W equivalent
CFL. But even if the cost were the same, I'd opt for the no-mercury LED
every time. CFLs will eventually be phased out.

--
Bobby G.

Appliance industry warns....
 

On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 21:51:08 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 15:22:49 -0700, Oren wrote:

"...The recent proposal from the Department of Energy is meant to
boost dishwasher efficiency by setting stricter limits on the amount
of water each dishwasher can use, among other changes. Under the
plan, washers could use only 3.1 gallons of water for a single load.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/20/federal-dishwasher-proposals-upset-appliance-industry-conservatives/v

https://tinyurl.com/nhsoupe

The department of energy is just one of numerous governmental agencies
that have long ago out lived their usefulness. That's assuming they
served a purpose to begin with. The market is more than capable of
determining what characteristics are desirable for a given product.

Don't even get me started on how useful the EPA, Dept of Labor, Dept
of education and Dept of HUD are. Not to mention the VA. Now you
really got me ****ed off!

Thanks, Oren!

And what's your problem with the VA ? You don't believe veterans deserve the
services they provide ?

I believe veterans deserve services better than the VA provides. My
complaint with the VA, as well as virtually all other govt agencies,
is they are not run nearly as well as comparable businesses in the
private sector.

If all of the bureaucrats that do nothing but consume tax dollars were
eliminated from the VA equation the services would greatly improve and
the costs would come down. In other words shift that responsibility to
the private sector and everyone would be better off.

Appliance industry warns....
 

On 7/21/2015 9:11 AM, bob haller wrote:
products should be made to be DURABLE rather
than cheap...... mandating a long life, rather
than being recycled.

the excellent example are cordless tools, the
feds should require easy to replace cells in the
battery pack


I'd sure like if my cordless tools all had batt
packs that came apart with phillips screw diver.
Buy sub C nicads or nickel metals with same size
(hey, we can make C and D cells the same size).
Replace cells as they go bad. I could get used
to that idea.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

Appliance industry warns....
 

On 7/21/15 10:59 AM, Robert Green wrote:

The problem I have is that the price point sweet spot seems to be for 60W
equivalent LEDs and they are just too dim for these old eyes. I got a bunch
of socket splitters and they've allowed me to double up in some fixtures but
fixtures that were designed to use two LEDs would be better - it would give
an equivalence of slight over 100W still for less than a 100W equivalent
CFL. But even if the cost were the same, I'd opt for the no-mercury LED
every time. CFLs will eventually be phased out.

--
I've been using LED headlamps long enough that I wonder how I got along
on bulbs.

Three years ago, I got one whose 8-degree beam has the intensity of nine
100-watt incandescent bulbs on medium and runs 4 or 5 hours on a AA
cell. If that's not enough, high has the intensity of 25 100W bulbs.

That could be inconveniently narrow and intense indoors. Lately, I got
a second headlamp with a 23-degree beam. On high, the intensity is equal
to six 100W bulbs. On medium its equal to two 100W bulbs.

Usually, I'll run a bulb for a little ambient lighting. If I want a good
look at what I'm doing, I wear a headlamp.

Appliance industry warns....
 

In article ,
"Terry Coombs" wrote:



I suspect the problems might be regional , because I've had nothing but
positive experiences with my VA health care . I go in tomorrow for my annual
physical , the appointment was made less than 2 weeks ago . The staff at the
Mountain Home Ar. center is VERY professional , they treat the patients with
respect , and the care is top notch . We also have a program now that if
you're more than 40 miles from a VA facility or can't get an appointment
within 30 days you can see a local provider . We're still looking for a doc
we like here , but it's nice to know I don't have to get hauled a hundred
miles to Little Rock if I have a hospital-type emergency . Or a cold for
that matter ...

Not according to anything I have seen on news reports. It is more the
other way where there are pockets of goodness. Most seem to be if you
live within the catchment area of a big city where most of the VA docs
are also on the faculty at local medical schools. But even that often
changes by specialty. Even between the cities, there are some wiht good
physical plant and many without.
Of course the local provider thingy sorta shows that the system has
fallen to the point it can't handle what it used to on their own.
--
³Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital.²
‹ Aaron Levenstein

Appliance industry warns....
 

On Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 10:29:30 AM UTC-5, Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 21:51:08 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 15:22:49 -0700, Oren wrote:

"...The recent proposal from the Department of Energy is meant to
boost dishwasher efficiency by setting stricter limits on the amount
of water each dishwasher can use, among other changes. Under the
plan, washers could use only 3.1 gallons of water for a single load.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/20/federal-dishwasher-proposals-upset-appliance-industry-conservatives/v

https://tinyurl.com/nhsoupe

The department of energy is just one of numerous governmental agencies
that have long ago out lived their usefulness. That's assuming they
served a purpose to begin with. The market is more than capable of
determining what characteristics are desirable for a given product.

Don't even get me started on how useful the EPA, Dept of Labor, Dept
of education and Dept of HUD are. Not to mention the VA. Now you
really got me ****ed off!

Thanks, Oren!

And what's your problem with the VA ? You don't believe veterans deserve the
services they provide ?

I believe veterans deserve services better than the VA provides. My
complaint with the VA, as well as virtually all other govt agencies,
is they are not run nearly as well as comparable businesses in the
private sector.

If all of the bureaucrats that do nothing but consume tax dollars were
eliminated from the VA equation the services would greatly improve and
the costs would come down. In other words shift that responsibility to
the private sector and everyone would be better off.

Poor service is directly proportional to the number of Affirmative Action Morons in positions of power and responsibility. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Monster

Appliance industry warns....
 

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message news:oc6dnes5U93-

stuff snipped

Our 1.6 gpf toilets do a great job of clearing the
bowl, but I always wonder about moving things down the line to the
street. I double flush often, not from need,, but for safety.

They've managed to save 20 millions gallons of clean water by switching to
low flows. Scientists claim that hydrogen peroxide or sludge eating enzymes
would be far safer to use than bleach.

http://blog.sfgate.com/opinionshop/2...bleach-in-san-
francisco-bay/#ixzz1F0D8BT3g

http://tinyurl.com/qzuutaz

I saw a "Dirty Jobs" episode that was filmed in the SF sewers. Apparently
they serve as home to some impressive numbers of roaches and rats. The
stink apparently gets bad only in the summer. California definitely needs
the water savings so they'll work something out, I am sure.

--
Bobby G.

Appliance industry warns....
 

On 07/21/2015 04:16 AM, Joe wrote:

[snip]

Yes, the food particles from the dishes don't pollute the water.
A dishwasher could use 20 gallons of water and if we didn't use detergent,
the waste water would do no harm to the environment.

The real issue is the detergent pollution but who would dare to take on P&G?


What would you think about a dishwasher that used twice as much water,
but no detergent?

Then the water could be used for outside watering.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Dad, what does "FORMATTING DRIVE C: 90% DONE" mean?"

Appliance industry warns....
 

On 07/21/2015 10:56 AM, J Burns wrote:

[snip]

I've been using LED headlamps long enough that I wonder how I got along
on bulbs.

Three years ago, I got one whose 8-degree beam has the intensity of nine
100-watt incandescent bulbs on medium and runs 4 or 5 hours on a AA
cell. If that's not enough, high has the intensity of 25 100W bulbs.

That could be inconveniently narrow and intense indoors. Lately, I got
a second headlamp with a 23-degree beam. On high, the intensity is equal
to six 100W bulbs. On medium its equal to two 100W bulbs.

Usually, I'll run a bulb for a little ambient lighting. If I want a good
look at what I'm doing, I wear a headlamp.

One thing about LEDs is that with most the light is WHITE rather then
the yellow of incandescents.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Dad, what does "FORMATTING DRIVE C: 90% DONE" mean?"

Appliance industry warns....
 

On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 13:29:31 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 12:02:34 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 07/21/2015 04:16 AM, Joe wrote:

[snip]

Yes, the food particles from the dishes don't pollute the water.
A dishwasher could use 20 gallons of water and if we didn't use detergent,
the waste water would do no harm to the environment.

The real issue is the detergent pollution but who would dare to take on P&G?


What would you think about a dishwasher that used twice as much water,
but no detergent?

Then the water could be used for outside watering.

Why can't water with detergent in it be used for watering?
It would actually be good for the plants if you used that evil
phosphate detergent.


+1

My washing machine has been watering my bananas for 3 decades and they
are thriving.

G

Appliance industry warns....
 

On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 09:10:50 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 10:29:30 AM UTC-5, Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 21:51:08 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 15:22:49 -0700, Oren wrote:

"...The recent proposal from the Department of Energy is meant to
boost dishwasher efficiency by setting stricter limits on the amount
of water each dishwasher can use, among other changes. Under the
plan, washers could use only 3.1 gallons of water for a single load.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/20/federal-dishwasher-proposals-upset-appliance-industry-conservatives/v

https://tinyurl.com/nhsoupe

The department of energy is just one of numerous governmental agencies
that have long ago out lived their usefulness. That's assuming they
served a purpose to begin with. The market is more than capable of
determining what characteristics are desirable for a given product.

Don't even get me started on how useful the EPA, Dept of Labor, Dept
of education and Dept of HUD are. Not to mention the VA. Now you
really got me ****ed off!

Thanks, Oren!

And what's your problem with the VA ? You don't believe veterans deserve the
services they provide ?

I believe veterans deserve services better than the VA provides. My
complaint with the VA, as well as virtually all other govt agencies,
is they are not run nearly as well as comparable businesses in the
private sector.

If all of the bureaucrats that do nothing but consume tax dollars were
eliminated from the VA equation the services would greatly improve and
the costs would come down. In other words shift that responsibility to
the private sector and everyone would be better off.

Poor service is directly proportional to the number of Affirmative Action Morons in positions of power and responsibility. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Monster

I've been through several "government shutdowns". Ever hear the term
"non-essential"? Prisons got along just fine without redundant
positions -- like three associate wardens. At least my position was
"essential" :)

Appliance industry warns....
 

On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 15:53:11 -0400, wrote:

The only reason why they "make some money" is because the government
pays all of the collection, sorting and transportation cost. The
pittance they get paid for the material at the remanufacturing
facility is nowhere near what we paid to get it there.

As I said before, things like metal and some paper, in some places,
will make sense to transport but you can test that yourself. Go to a
scrap yard and see what they will pay you for a truckload of it.

Then balance that against what it costs for us to actually collect and
sort it.

Does _Cash for Clunkers_ ring a bell? :)